Meaningful Training with WML use

[SsevenN]

So my EDC has a TLR-1 HL and I'm trying to integrate useful training into my range sessions.

Problem is I don't know how to get the most out of it or do it "right".

I do a lot of dryfire draw and activation/trigger break practice with it at home - but then I go to the range and it's so bright I cannot observe the light on the target.

Up until now I've been trying to integrate using it doing my 3 cold FASTs - I use recorded footage to confirm it's activated or observe when I "fall off" the lever and it deactivates, but that is after the fact and doesn't represent the observable data/remedial action response I would get using it in low light, so there's little learned I feel.

The obvious solution is shoot super early/evening - which is something I've been considering more and more (the early morning session, particularly). That said I don't know how consistent I can be on squeaking in a range session before work...

I was hoping the knowledgeable folks here at p-f had some insight in to effective & efficient ways to get the most out of training with a WML that maybe don't involve rescheduling all of my practice sessions. Or any input in general as I'm not very well versed on the subject beyond watching a few Sage Dynamics videos...

[taadski]

So you're looking for input regarding learning to train using your WML when it's not dark? :) Not mocking, that's just the way it reads. My first advice would be finding a location where you can work at night or one with controlled lighting. Dry fire, as you mentioned, is a great place to start working on your manipulations, but live fire will obviously be exceedingly important.

That said, utilizing a light effectively in conjunction with a firearm is a GIANT topic. And one that is a FAR CRY from being solved simply by sticking a WML on your pistol and going shooting a few times in the dark. If you're serious about your skill set, this is probably a juncture in your learning where spending some savings and enrolling in a training class would be a wise direction.

Anyway, some time ago, our own TC put together a bunch of great info that wound up on the PT blog here:

http://pistol-training.com/articles/handgun-low-light-essentials


Re training, my info very well may be a bit dated. But two training companies of note doing a lot of low light stuff 15+ years ago were the Surefire Institute and Strategos International. There was a bunch of drama associated with the splitting of these two entities back in the day (I'll leave it at that), but I belief both are still in operation (possibly with different leadership) and might be good places to look. The latter company ran a week long instructor school called "Strategies for Low Light Engagement". A training facility I was involved with at the time hosted it and my agency sent several of us. It was truly one of the most beneficial schools of that type I've had the opportunity to take part in. Full on 'drinking from the firehose' learning for me at the time.

There's a curtailed version of their original manual in .pdf still up on the web that might make for some useful reading. (Link below) There are some associated drills and exercises in the back that might give you some ideas or direction in the meantime.

http://www.gandalf23.com/stuffz/FlashlightUsageSection.pdf

[SsevenN]

So you're looking for input regarding learning to train using your WML when it's not dark? :)

In a sense, yes. I figured I'd ask. I'm not good at seeing around corners and I spent years training in inefficient ways so before I shoot 1,000 of rounds while activating the light, day or night, I wanted a clearer picture of what works and doesn't work.

Thanks for the links.

[Chance]

Find a reputable instructor and start taking low light classes. I know this is a, "Well, duh..." response, but it's dazzling (heh) how many completely reasonable assumptions fall apart in a dark shoot house.

I've trained with Paul Howe, who does great low-light stuff in his Advanced Individual Tactics (http://www.combatshootingandtactics.com/calendar.htm) class. Mike Pannone (http://www.ctt-solutions.com/classes-offered/low-light-pistol/) also does a class exclusive to low-light, and I've heard that it's excellent. Other instructors will often incorporate low-light stuff into a class if the range allows (Ken Hackathorn (http://www.aztectrainingservices.com/ken-hackathorn) does a pretty good survey in his class). And there's a convincing (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?13613-Utility-of-a-WML-for-Concealed-Carry&p=258113&viewfull=1#post258113)case (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20249-WML-for-CC&p=436969&viewfull=1#post436969)to be made that WMLs for civilians aren't that useful (assuming you're a civilian). The Rangemaster Newsletter (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24587-March-Rangemaster-Newsletter) discussed that recently.

[Default.mp3]

You may want to check the POI of any low-light handgun courses you look at; most of the ones I've taken have a heavy emphasis on handheld technique, which is of limited utility if you're trying to get WML reps in.

You can try shooting indoors, it's usually very easy to tell if your WML is on or not at 10 yards and in, and probably further, depending on the spill of your light and lighting conditions.

[taadski]

...most of the ones I've taken have a heavy emphasis on handheld technique...



There's a hint in there somewhere...

[Default.mp3]

There's a hint in there somewhere...Well, to me, the hint is that there isn't too much to teach by way of WML use when it comes to mechanical shooting skills, coupled with the fact that people that carry with a WML are still a tiny minority in general. Open enrollment, weekend low-light classes are very rarely low-light tactics courses, after all, where the utility of a handheld would be much more obvious compared to a WML.

[blues]

There's a hint in there somewhere...

Not exactly sure what the hint is but I keep a G17 with WML on the nightstand for home defense duty. (I have a holster made for the outfit should I desire to tote it but I think the occasions will be somewhat rare at best.)

When I perform my LEOSA (simulated nighttime) qualifications it will be, (as in the past), with a handheld Surefire.

[NH Shooter]

Not exactly sure what the hint is but I keep a G17 with WML on the nightstand for home defense duty. When I perform my LEOSA (simulated nighttime) qualifications it will be, (as in the past), with a handheld Surefire.

Ditto (except no official qualifications for me other than my own). A G17 with an APL is my in-house go-to, but as a flashoholic I have a collection of handhelds and always have one with me. My EDC pistol is a Walther PPS sans a WML but my EDC light is a modified Quark that is very capable - 780 lumens on a single IMR 14500 (AA-sized) li-ion battery;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-3.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-4.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/quarks-1.jpg


Google is your friend and there is a vast body of knowledge out there on using lights with weapons. IMO for civilian self defense in a public setting, a handheld offers a lot more flexibility vs. a WML. Having both (and the knowledge of how/when to deploy them) is even better.

[NH Shooter]

More lights;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-10.jpg
A pair of 780 lumen Quarks and my SF PR1


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/wml-4.jpg
A Malkoff M61T MD2 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/m61t-md2) on a BCM mid-length carbine


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/wml-5.jpg
A Malkoff Hound Dog 18650 (https://malkoff-devices.myshopify.com/collections/malkoff-led-flashlights/products/malkoff-neutral-turnkey-hound-dog-18650) on the carbine


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/hounddog-1.jpg


I use hand held lights as WMLs on long guns so I can still use them as hand helds too!

[taadski]

Well, to me, the hint is that there isn't too much to teach by way of WML use when it comes to mechanical shooting skills, coupled with the fact that people that carry with a WML are still a tiny minority in general. Open enrollment, weekend low-light classes are very rarely low-light tactics courses, after all, where the utility of a handheld would be much more obvious compared to a WML.

Agreed on all points. Wasn't trying to be snarky; just a drive by post by phone while working.



Not exactly sure what the hint is but I keep a G17 with WML on the nightstand for home defense duty. (I have a holster made for the outfit should I desire to tote it but I think the occasions will be somewhat rare at best.)

When I perform my LEOSA (simulated nighttime) qualifications it will be, (as in the past), with a handheld Surefire.

I'm certainly not averse to the use of weapon mounted lights. One lives on my duty pistol also. What I was alluding to is their utility is a lot more limited than a lot of folks believe and aren't (or shouldn't be) a substitute for a handheld and the appropriate tactics there-of. That's all.

I think the fact that the better low light programs emphasize hand held search techniques is a direct function of that.

[NH Shooter]

What I was alluding to is their utility is a lot more limited than a lot of folks believe and aren't (or shouldn't be) a substitute for a handheld and the appropriate tactics there-of.

Agreed. I'd go as far to say that for civilian CCW purposes, it's the hand held that should be acquired and train with first.

[blues]

Ditto (except no official qualifications for me other than my own). A G17 with an APL is my in-house go-to, but as a flashoholic I have a collection of handhelds and always have one with me. My EDC pistol is a Walther PPS sans a WML but my EDC light is a modified Quark that is very capable - 780 lumens on a single IMR 14500 (AA-sized) li-ion battery;

Google is your friend and there is a vast body of knowledge out there on using lights with weapons. IMO for civilian self defense in a public setting, a handheld offers a lot more flexibility vs. a WML. Having both (and the knowledge of how/when to deploy them) is even better.

We used WMLs on SRT, primarily shotguns, not handguns back then. Since retiring from LE I'm comfortable qualifying either way but since I don't carry a WML with my EDC I qualify the way I carry. In the home is a different matter since there may be reasons I want my weak hand free to direct wife, pup, or reach for additional equipment. YMMV.

I'm a Malkoff guy when it comes to lights that aren't Surefires or Streamlights attached to my weapons.

[blues]

I'm certainly not averse to the use of weapon mounted lights. One lives on my duty pistol also. What I was alluding to is their utility is a lot more limited than a lot of folks believe and aren't (or shouldn't be) a substitute for a handheld and the appropriate tactics there-of. That's all.

I think the fact that the better low light programs emphasize hand held search techniques is a direct function of that.

We're on the same page, brother.

[spinmove_]

Ditto (except no official qualifications for me other than my own). A G17 with an APL is my in-house go-to, but as a flashoholic I have a collection of handhelds and always have one with me. My EDC pistol is a Walther PPS sans a WML but my EDC light is a modified Quark that is very capable - 780 lumens on a single IMR 14500 (AA-sized) li-ion battery;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-3.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/qta-4.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/quarks-1.jpg


Google is your friend and there is a vast body of knowledge out there on using lights with weapons. IMO for civilian self defense in a public setting, a handheld offers a lot more flexibility vs. a WML. Having both (and the knowledge of how/when to deploy them) is even better.

That's a slick little doohickey on your light. Where can I gets one?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[SsevenN]

For the record, I do carry a hand held every day as well.

I could make counter points as to why I like a WML, some might be valid some maybe less so, but the bottom line is I just like to have one, personal preference and it's not a draw back, so that's where I am at.

So the gist is there's no secret club WML training techniques that can be done in daylight (other than shoot indoors) that I've missed and if I want to get reps on it it's dryfire nightly and train early morning, good enough I suppose.

I've been waiting weeks for a Streamlight ProTac USB to arrive at my FLGS - it's still on backorder, about to tell them to cancel it and have Amazon drop it from a drone 2 days from now...

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/EDC%204-16-17%201_zpsuvytk0aa.jpg

[NH Shooter]

That's a slick little doohickey on your light. Where can I gets one?

DIY finger lanyard made of paracord using a constrictor knot and a break-away coupling (so no one can tourniquet my finger off). This allows me to flip the light out of the way (to the back of my hand) to free it up for mag changes, racking the slide, etc.

[spinmove_]

DIY finger lanyard made of paracord using a constrictor knot and a break-away coupling (so no one can tourniquet my finger off). This allows me to flip the light out of the way (to the back of my hand) to free it up for mag changes, racking the slide, etc.

Got instructions on how to make such a thing? That's pretty slick.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[BJXDS]

DIY finger lanyard made of paracord using a constrictor knot and a break-away coupling (so no one can tourniquet my finger off). This allows me to flip the light out of the way (to the back of my hand) to free it up for mag changes, racking the slide, etc.


Got instructions on how to make such a thing? That's pretty slick.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

YES PLEASE interested as well

[taadski]

Looks like it's just a clove hitch around the light body itself with the ends joined by the break away gizmo.


https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/clove-hitch

[NerdAlert]

Looks like it's just a clove hitch around the light body itself with the ends joined by the break away gizmo.


https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/clove-hitch

I was thinking the same thing. A constrictor (http://www.animatedknots.com/constrictor/#ScrollPoint) is a little different than a clove hitch, but close. These (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008O26PUK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_pJ.bzbN1TW98H) look like the clasps. Seems pretty self explanatory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

Looks like it's just a clove hitch around the light body itself with the ends joined by the break away gizmo.


https://www.netknots.com/rope_knots/clove-hitch

That's what I thought...(climbers all think alike), but it's apparently slightly different (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictor_knot).

I haven't kept up with my knot work, regrettably.

ETA: I didn't see NerdAlert's reply before posting my own.

[taadski]

Copy. Yeah, you guys are right, looks like. I'm not familiar with that one. The clove is a staple though. ;-)

[Erick Gelhaus]

A lot of WML and hand held light manipulations can be done dry and at home, in an unoccupied work space. Once you've secured the ammo, mags, etc I can easily employ both - working corners, dark holes, light low and splashing or light high and splashing. etc. Hand held manipulations & techniques can be done without the blaster, just use you hand as a "hand" gun (pun intended).

Blue guns (or red, or yellow, etc) are nice is this role too. I always have a twin blue gun with a WML for demos, building clearing, etc.

Good, competently presented training on low light issues, concerns would be well worth your time.

[HCM]

For the record, I do carry a hand held every day as well.

I could make counter points as to why I like a WML, some might be valid some maybe less so, but the bottom line is I just like to have one, personal preference and it's not a draw back, so that's where I am at.

So the gist is there's no secret club WML training techniques that can be done in daylight (other than shoot indoors) that I've missed and if I want to get reps on it it's dryfire nightly and train early morning, good enough I suppose.

I've been waiting weeks for a Streamlight ProTac USB to arrive at my FLGS - it's still on backorder, about to tell them to cancel it and have Amazon drop it from a drone 2 days from now...

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/EDC%204-16-17%201_zpsuvytk0aa.jpg

As noted, there is not really much to shooting with a WML or even with a hand held light. THE "meat" of low light training is tactics rather than shooting. How to use both light and dark to your advantage and your opponents disadvantage. The best low light training I've been to has not involved any live fire, just low light tactics with blue guns reinforced by Simmunitions.

[NH Shooter]

Got instructions on how to make such a thing? That's pretty slick.

1. Using about a foot of your favorite color paracord, secure to the light body using this knot (http://www.animatedknots.com/constrictor/#ScrollPoint) (under a clip helps retain the lanyard from sliding).

2. Once the knot is tied, cut the paracord to the desired length. I find that having about a 1-1/2" loop works well, a bit more for gloves.

3. Secure the cut ends with a break-away coupler (http://www.theparacordstore.com/pop-barrel-connector.html).

I wear the light in my front-left pocket, positioned as far to the left in the pocket as possible. I place the loop to the right of the light body, just far enough down to be inside the pocket. Positioned this way, I can maneuver my left index finer into the loop as I reach for the light.

Along with the usual everyday use of a flashlight (set on 60 lumens), I use it when needed to enhance my situational awareness. When traversing dark places I set it to 780 lumens and use it to "flash" dark areas to check for threats. IMO, this also serves to place any predator(s) on notice that I am aware of my surroundings and they will have difficulty closing range without being noticed.

I use one of my lights every night when taking the pups out for their final walk before retiring. Our backyard is surrounded by woods and I use the light to scan for eye reflections. Deer, fox and raccoon are common visitors and usually move off when hit by 29,000 lux from the Malkoff Hound Dog.

I feel naked without one of my lights on my person....

[NH Shooter]

For the record, I do carry a hand held every day as well.

I've spent some time reading about defensive flashlight technique (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=defensive+flashlight+technique&spf=398). There's plenty of material to review and IMO some good suggestions on how to use a flashlight for defensive purposes.

Of course one of the major advantages of a hand held is you can walk around with one in your hand and no one is likely to object - which means you can use it all the time with virtual impunity. It can give you forewarning that the S is about to HTF at which point (if you're so equipped) pull your weapon and transition to the WML.

[lwt16]

Been to some low light schools and taught a few.

For me.....and of course, your mileage may vary, but there are a few things I consider vital to my training in low light.

1. Showing up to my members only range before dawn, getting set up, and shooting in the dark. I use an AR500 IDPA target for instant feedback.
2. Plenty of dry practice clearing rooms and buildings. My job affords me plenty of buildings to play in. Once my partner and I clear them, we go back and do it over and over, if the call volume allows it.
3. Plenty of hand held light practice using a blue gun, Simunitions, or an airsoft gun. I use my son's airsoft pistol that is gas operated and has realistic slide cycling and also has a rail that takes my TLR HL light.
4. Watching and reading as much as I can find on the subject. I have to clear buildings on a regular basis at work and lights are always necessary.

Even with 21 years of clearing buildings and playing in the dark, using stronger and stronger lights over the years......I still don't feel like I'm "there" when it comes to building searches. My department recently relented and allowed us to utilize WMLs on our pistols and their class was pretty weak on the live fire part. The Simunitions part was pretty good and we utilized a .gov shoothouse specifically designed for such playtime. I'd like to be allowed to run scenario after scenario in that shoothouse for like a week's time.....all in the darkness.

Find a school if you can afford to. It really opens up eyes as far as gear and tactics. We had cops grumbling about flashlight training and then once in the school, they had a better understanding of what all they "didn't" know.

Good luck.

[Kevin B.]

As noted, there is not really much to shooting with a WML or even with a hand held light. THE "meat" of low light training is tactics rather than shooting. How to use both light and dark to your advantage and your opponents disadvantage. The best low light training I've been to has not involved any live fire, just low light tactics with blue guns reinforced by Simmunitions.

This.