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ca survivor
04-29-2017, 09:19 AM
I've reloading for many years, recently I discovered that my reloads for the .45ACP that work perfect in Colts 1911 S&W 1911 or Kimber, will not work on HK .45, Shield .45, Sig 220 or any newly manufacture .45 ACP gun, by not working I mean the guns is out of battery load will not go fully in. Apparently these new guns have tighter chambers, or my reloading dies are worn out ? LOL any suggestions of a re-sizing die that is tighter ?

thanks C S

jeep45238
04-29-2017, 09:32 AM
Are you sure it's a dia problem and not a seating depth problem?


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BehindBlueI's
04-29-2017, 09:33 AM
Not terribly exotic, I know, but I use the Lee 4 die set. I have had no issues feeding my P220 or P227 with the resulting ammo, and fed a Springfield 1911 before that. No experience with H&K or Shield, sorry.

Wayne Dobbs
04-29-2017, 09:54 AM
I've reloading for many years, recently I discovered that my reloads for the .45ACP that work perfect in Colts 1911 S&W 1911 or Kimber, will not work on HK .45, Shield .45, Sig 220 or any newly manufacture .45 ACP gun, by not working I mean the guns is out of battery load will not go fully in. Apparently these new guns have tighter chambers, or my reloading dies are worn out ? LOL any suggestions of a re-sizing die that is tighter ?

thanks C S

Dies rarely "wear out" so that's not a likely issue. As mentioned, it may be an overall length (OAL) problem or it may be that you have a throat (transition area from chamber mouth to rifling) that is incompatible with the bullet design you're using. Try sizing a case and then run it through your crimp die without a bullet seated. Try it and see if the slide will close and lock. If it does, you have part of the answer. If you can't get the bullets you're trying to use seated short enough for function, then you either have to go with a design similar to factory ammo or get a competent gunsmith to alter your throat. If you need one, I have one that does a great job and will get you his contact info.

Another possibility is that you're using a bullet that is slightly larger in diameter than factory and therefore the loaded round mouth diameter is too large for the chamber mouth/throat area.

Malamute
04-29-2017, 10:19 AM
Dies rarely "wear out" so that's not a likely issue. As mentioned, it may be an overall length (OAL) problem or it may be that you have a throat (transition area from chamber mouth to rifling) that is incompatible with the bullet design you're using. Try sizing a case and then run it through your crimp die without a bullet seated. Try it and see if the slide will close and lock. If it does, you have part of the answer. If you can't get the bullets you're trying to use seated short enough for function, then you either have to go with a design similar to factory ammo or get a competent gunsmith to alter your throat. If you need one, I have one that does a great job and will get you his contact info.

Another possibility is that you're using a bullet that is slightly larger in diameter than factory and therefore the loaded round mouth diameter is too large for the chamber mouth/throat area.


Very good analysis. If the bullet is engaging the rifling in the throat, it may show on the bullet of the ejected round after trying to close the slide.

You may also see marks on the case if the complete round is too fat to chamber. Trying to chamber the same round several times may give better marks on the case to aid diagnosis.

ca survivor
04-29-2017, 01:45 PM
Are you sure it's a dia problem and not a seating depth problem?


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I'm sitting at the same length as the factory rounds, 230 RN FMJ, by testing with a smaller overall length, as another member suggested, it works at least on the Shield, I'm too lazy today to take the other guns barrels out to check LOL and would like to load and test some rounds with a lower starting load first. my thanks to you and all.

ca survivor
04-29-2017, 01:47 PM
Not terribly exotic, I know, but I use the Lee 4 die set. I have had no issues feeding my P220 or P227 with the resulting ammo, and fed a Springfield 1911 before that. No experience with H&K or Shield, sorry.

good idea, I might buy and try a Lee resizing die only.

LittleLebowski
04-29-2017, 04:05 PM
Without measurements and case gauge data, not much we can do to help you.

ca survivor
04-30-2017, 10:22 AM
Without measurements and case gauge data, not much we can do to help you.

I'm not that sophisticated for a case gauge, have a simple setup, thanks anyway others have helped already.

Hambo
04-30-2017, 10:27 AM
Are you taper crimping them? If not, that might be the answer.

jeep45238
04-30-2017, 10:33 AM
I'm not that sophisticated for a case gauge, have a simple setup, thanks anyway others have helped already.

A case gauge is stupid simple - and can be had for under $15. It will provide far more immediate diagnostic information than questions, guessing, and buying random dies/parts.

If it fits in a min. gauge: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/171349/le-wilson-max-cartridge-gauge-45-acp it should fit in any in-spec chamber.

If it fails in a min. gauge but passes a max gauge : https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-Reloading-C-P-Pistol-Cartridge/dp/B005I0IU5E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1493566280&sr=8-2&keywords=45+acp+case+length+gauge it's good to go for plinking in guns that don't have tight/match chambers.

Jim Watson
04-30-2017, 11:17 AM
?
Both of those are labeled Maximum Cartridge Gauges.
If everything really is to SAAMI spec - and you might be surprised to see what isn't covered and what isn't to spec even when it is - a minimum chamber will accept a maximum cartridge.
But then a $15-$22 gauge is going to introduce its own set of manufacturing tolerances.
Most of the "tight match chambers" on the market are really undersize. SAAMI spec for .45 ACP and .45 ACP match chambers are THE SAME. Naturally a conscientious manufacturer will hold to the low end of tolerance, but it is so tempting to make them just a little smaller and maybe gain a little accuracy for the advertising.


I'm too lazy today to take the other guns barrels out to check

If you cannot be bothered to make such a simple and FREE check as the "plunk test" in what appears to be your smallest chamber, you are going to be hard to help.

Malamute
04-30-2017, 11:22 AM
^^^ The plunk test Jim mentioned is as follows.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s80P2j02YnM

I don't have any cartridge gauges, but check the loads in my guns when trying new loads. The other mentioned things to look for on cartridges that don't chamber freely also give useful info.

jeep45238
04-30-2017, 11:50 AM
You can find max and min gauges, as there are always tolerances in manufacturing and dimensions. I stick to min, so I know it'll run in anything. The barrel works fine if you don't want to spend the money (mine does 100 at a time, and is way faster than a barrel for quantities).

Either way, a gauge or barrel, with a sharpie to find the right spot and help diagnose the problem, are invaluable.


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45dotACP
04-30-2017, 01:26 PM
I like the Lee 4 die sets. Even at the expense of losing a die station on my progressive, an improperly crimped round is probably why your ammo isnt feeding.

What are your crimp measurements?

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ca survivor
04-30-2017, 04:35 PM
Are you taper crimping them? If not, that might be the answer.

yep, I'm looking into ordering a taper crimp die, what bugs me is that it same load, even reloaded on the same day, functions in the 1911s and I was wrong it works in the 220 also, but not in the HK .45C, Shield .45 or the XDS, maybe is a Polymer thing ;)

noylj
05-01-2017, 04:42 AM
The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.

TiroFijo
05-01-2017, 08:50 AM
I've had this problem too with HK USPs compared to 1911s, using lead bullets (that are sized 0.001-.002" larger than bore size)...

Did as noylj recommended above to solve it.

mmc45414
05-01-2017, 09:46 AM
I've reloading for many years, recently I discovered that my reloads for the .45ACP that work perfect in Colts 1911 S&W 1911 or Kimber, will not work on HK .45, Shield .45, Sig 220 or any newly manufacture .45 ACP gun, by not working I mean the guns is out of battery load will not go fully in. Apparently these new guns have tighter chambers?

I think the XD-45 was my first departure from 1911s and I experienced the exact same thing and I never did anything scientific but presume the chambers are just less promiscuous. If you just plunk test one of the 1911 barrels next to one of the cranky pistols it should probably be obvious.

I also had a bunch of AMERC casings and they are problematic, for years I loaded 200g SWC bullets and shot them in various 1911s with no issue. Then I switched to longer bullets (the SWC is also a problem in the XD) and started having a buttload of problems like you describe. Recently I even had issues with the (IMO) more tolerant 1911 and bought a Lee Factory Crimp Die and ran the AMERC loads through them. It sizes the exterior of the loaded cartridge as a double check at the end of the process and all of the fat AMERCs cycled fine. So I figured I would just switch my sizing die and not worry about it but in practice the rounds drag on the way in and out of the crimp die and was clunky on the 650.

At this point I think I am just going to get a case of beer and sort out all of those AMERC cases.

ca survivor
05-01-2017, 10:37 AM
let me know if you need help sorting the cases out and specially help with the beer ;) but with a all that beer we might end up throwing all the cases back together again LOL

Malamute
05-01-2017, 10:51 AM
How is the diagnostics coming along?

ca survivor
05-01-2017, 11:05 AM
cases are not going in all the way, must be the crimping I just order a Lee taper die, will see when it gets here, thanks

ca survivor
05-04-2017, 09:45 AM
Are you taper crimping them? If not, that might be the answer.

I lower the seating depth and just got a LEE taper crimp die, re did 50 rounds and it seems to work, have to try with live fire and check for excessive pressure, my loads are pretty mild anyway @ 5.4 of unique, I want thank all for the interest and advices.

LtDave
05-04-2017, 02:30 PM
My gut feeling is that you have a bunch of well used .45 brass. The Lee die will probably salvage it. I'd buy a box of factory ball, shoot some and try loading the once fired brass with your current settings. If that works, your brass is most likely the culprit. I load for a bunch of different guns and have some 50 plus year old brass (RA63) that's still going strong. The only thing my HK 45s won't run is the Hornady steel case traing ammo.

mmc45414
05-04-2017, 03:13 PM
My gut feeling is that you have a bunch of well used .45 brass.
I load for a bunch of different guns and have some 50 plus year old brass (RA63) that's still going strong.
1977 was a fine year... :)
16257
As you say, stuff like this still runs fine for me.