Managerial/ detective level police carry?

[Glenn E. Meyer]

This might be a silly question but we eat lunch at place that gets a good number of law enforcement. The uniformed officers have all their gear but there is a large number of folks that come in a shirt and slacks. They have a badge on the belt and a Glock in a holster. That's it. Given our obsessiveness on reloads, etc. - I wonder why? No visible handcuffs or extra mags. Wouldn't that be useful if there was something bad happening?

One pair had Serpas. Oh, well.

Just asking if there is a usual policy?

[John Hearne]

They don't think they're going to do any real police police work. They just want to make sure they get the police discount on their meals. (Not joking)

[Joe in PNG]

To be fair, a Glock 19 has three times the pew-pew of a pocket carried J-frame.

[Gray222]

Most brass will carry in a leather holster of some kind, usually a galco or something of nature.

They almost always do not carry cuffs or a spare mag. This is because they don't ever expect or attempt to be in a police-action level situation.

It is also part of the culture, completely acceptable to be unprepared.

But you better believe they will chew you out in a heartbeat for not being in full and complete uniform.

[BehindBlueI's]

They don't think they're going to do any real police police work. They just want to make sure they get the police discount on their meals. (Not joking)

This.

[rathos]

It is interesting because I see this a lot in my department as well. however our policy is (and this even applies to off duty) if you are carrying under you police authority (no CCW just your commission card) you are supposed to have handcuffs and one reload. On duty detective, admin or otherwise you are supposed to carry two reloads and at least one set of cuffs. Our sheriff and Chief are about the only ones that always carry two spares and a set of cuffs and the Chief always has his portable.

[BobM]

Our policy requires plain clothes officers to carry a minimum of one spare magazine. They were issued a Safariland paddle mounted mag/cuff combo carrier.

[Trooper224]

When most people move up into admin or plain clothes the first thing they do is ditch the body armor, most other gear eventually follows. In each Troop HQ we have a Captain and an Administrative Lieutenant. They're still in uniform and just might have to get their butt off the barcalounger and do some cop stuff if the need arises, but no body armor. Majors and above are also still in uniform, but they eventually ditch everything off the Sam Browne except the gun and extra BBs. You can always tell a pencil neck from behind because they look like they stepped out of 1935. Most of them just wanted to vault up into admin with minimal time on the road. They never wanted to do cop shit, just look like it. Our only full time plain clothes types are govenors security. Most of them don't carry anything other than a firearm and maybe a spare mag.

[AMC]

Yeah...what John said. I will add that I think MOST cops, and virtually all admin types, think of the Roscoe more as a heavy piece of jewelry than a tool. It's a symbol, not a weapon. And I've remarked elsewhere about our team of young, hotshot Plainclothes kiddies who run around sporting an open carried pistol in a t-shirt and skinny jeans. No mags, cuffs, radio....just a cell phone. Because cool.

[JR1572]

When I was a detective, I had the following items on my person at all times:

Duty gun with light in an als holster attached to my belt. No paddle holster bullshit.

1 spare magazine.

1 set of cuffs.

Flashlight and knife in pocket.

Radio on belt.

BUG on ankle.

My trousers were held up by Beltman belts.

That was my loadout when I was a detective that wore dress clothes. When I was working dope, I had the same loadout with a wilderness belt.

I miss working in plainclothes but now that I'm back on patrol, I don't have to spend time picking out my outfit the night before work.

JR1572

[TGS]

Extremely common, Glenn.

Either by office or agency policy (not sure), we're prohibited from using those combo cuff/single mag pouches. I guess the idea behind it is that they're very convenient and if they were allowed then people would be more inclined to only carry 1 reload, instead of two. The real effect is that when doing office days, the "target population" simply carries the gun and badge instead of at least having a reload. Counterproductive, IMO.


Our only full time plain clothes types are govenors security. Most of them don't carry anything other than a firearm and maybe a spare mag.

It's not uncommon for local/state guys* to join us on medium and high threat protective details carrying nothing but a badge and gun. This, on a mission where a good portion of even our not-tacticool/not-gun-guys bring extra mags in their bail-out bag, a full IFAK in addition to the med gear on their person (most carry at least a TQ), etc.



*Except for the NJ State Troopers. Those guys are pretty much always ready to party whenever, wherever.....

[Trooper224]

It's not uncommon for local/state guys* to join us on medium and high threat protective details carrying nothing but a badge and gun. This, on a mission where a good portion of even our not-tacticool/not-gun-guys bring extra mags in their bail-out bag, a full IFAK in addition to the med gear on their person (most carry at least a TQ), etc.

Years ago, I had to assist the gov. security detail with a local event. I asked the lead man how things were going and he related the following: that morning, a naked woman armed with a pair of scissors had entered the state building through a side entrance, had made it all the way to the Governors office before anyone saw her. He was seated at his desk and the first indication he had was naked Nancy walking through the door with scissors in hand and the Governor about thirty feet away, behind a closed door. Well, he'd left his ASP, pepper spray, cuffs, etc. at home and only had his sidearm. He chose to go hands on with the woman because his only other option was to shoot her. You'd think he learned a lesson, but sadly no. I had to do the dog and pony routine with politicians a lot when I was younger, until we had a female democrat in office. She asked me a question and I hurt her feelings with my answer. That got me out of gov. security detail for the rest of my career.

[LockedBreech]

Plain clothes rig for all the detectives and investigators here is gun, badge, 1 magazine. Usually they have the gun right along with the badge on the dominant hip and the spare on the other side. That's true across agencies.

Off duty policy, I'm pretty sure, is just gun and badge, they don't care what type, how many, or reloads.

[Chipster]

The term managerial/detective are two distinct separate jobs which can be broken down even further. I've seen all types but I'll try to break it down a bit according to my experience.

Managerial-Administration. These guys are usually logistical people behind the scenes and rarely interacting with the general public. They usually start out with the handcuffs and extra magazines, and maybe even a radio. They lose most of that in less than three months. Why? Meetings. By the time they hear the radio traffic, it's over. I should say though that my current Chief and Captain are usually in full uniform including body armor and that's becoming a little more common in my area.

Managerial-Job Specific. CSI and forensic types. Maybe academy instructors (I know). These guys are someplace that again, takes
them out of direct public interaction. I rarely see our CSI's with guns to be honest with you. Forensic guys are just as bad. Lots of Fobus and Glock 26's, if there's even a gun. Occasionally a .380 acp!

Detectives-General Investigations. These are your property crime guys and crimes against persons. They are usually in suits or khakis and button up/polo typically with the badge exposed on the belt. A lot of paddle holsters as the guys take them off often while conducting forensic interviews with kids and such. Occasionally, you'll see an extra magazine or a handcuff pouch, but it's rather rare, and often the quality is in the Fobus/Blackhawk price range. But, at least they usually carry radios!

Detectives-Dope/Narcs. These you shouldn't see anything on. Pistol-forum guys should see the occasional bulge or protrusion, but it shouldn't be obvious to the outside world. If your seeing Guns and badges on these guys it should be in their office out of public view. No radios, and usually two cell phones. Lots of Under Armour and Oakleys.

I'm currently working drugs, but my job as a supervisor still keeps me working crimes against persons at least a couple of times a month. Just this Sunday I worked a rape case. I had on my G17 w/Surefire XC1, JMCK AIWB with a spare magazine (CCC), Surefire Delta folder, Leatherman micro, Surefire Titan Plus, neck badge (under my shirt), foldable handcuffs, and a metal bodied pen. I was wearing an untucked polo and khakis. When I'm working dope or other vice type stuff, it depends. I've been outfitted for raids, and naked as a newborn. It's detail specific. I will say that the only time I wouldn't have a full size gun on me is the rare case that I've had to strip down, and in that case I've always had backup.

My wife always wonder why lunches cost more when I'm working drugs. But at least I'm not ingesting as much bodily fluids as the other officers!! There's always a bright side!!

[Gray222]

Years ago, I had to assist the gov. security detail with a local event. I asked the lead man how things were going and he related the following: that morning, a naked woman armed with a pair of scissors had entered the state building through a side entrance, had made it all the way to the Governors office before anyone saw her. He was seated at his desk and the first indication he had was naked Nancy walking through the door with scissors in hand and the Governor about thirty feet away, behind a closed door. Well, he'd left his ASP, pepper spray, cuffs, etc. at home and only had his sidearm. He chose to go hands on with the woman because his only other option was to shoot her. You'd think he learned a lesson, but sadly no. I had to do the dog and pony routine with politicians a lot when I was younger, until we had a female democrat in office. She asked me a question and I hurt her feelings with my answer. That got me out of gov. security detail for the rest of my career.

That's one way to get what you wanted.

[Trooper224]

That's one way to get what you wanted.

When the younger guys would bitch about pulling governors detail I'd tell them, "I know a way you can get out of that forever." :)

[blues]

When the younger guys would bitch about pulling governors detail I'd tell them, "I know a way you can get out of that forever." :)

When I was doing a protection detail for Secret Service as an OTA way back when...I told them "anybody but Jesse Jackson". So, guess who they assigned me to? Yup...

I found a way to get off after a weekend. ;)

[HCM]

Extremely common, Glenn.

Either by office or agency policy (not sure), we're prohibited from using those combo cuff/single mag pouches. I guess the idea behind it is that they're very convenient and if they were allowed then people would be more inclined to only carry 1 reload, instead of two. The real effect is that when doing office days, the "target population" simply carries the gun and badge instead of at least having a reload. Counterproductive, IMO.

It's not uncommon for local/state guys* to join us on medium and high threat protective details carrying nothing but a badge and gun. This, on a mission where a good portion of even our not-tacticool/not-gun-guys bring extra mags in their bail-out bag, a full IFAK in addition to the med gear on their person (most carry at least a TQ), etc.


*Except for the NJ State Troopers. Those guys are pretty much always ready to party whenever, wherever.....

The problem with most of these combo pouches is they are one large pouch divided by a tension screw. The problem is double stack mags are thicker than the cuffs so something is always too tight or too loose.

The best versions have separate pouches for the mag and the cuffs on one backer. Don Hume and HSGI both make acceptable versions.

[psalms144.1]

I'm in plain clothes at work, but I have on me: G19, two reloads, Surefire Fury, cuffs, G26 on the ankle. In my backpack are two more magazines, a second flashlight, a second set of cuffs, and medical supplies.

On the other end of the spectrum, I've had folks in my agency show up at "investigative activities" with a J-frame and no spare ammunition, a PM9 or G43 and same, or no firearm at all. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a pair of cuffs except at our annual mandatory "defensive tactics" refresher. I rarely see spare magazines except on the range. I had one agent, in the not too distant past, show up for qualification with no covering garment (so she had been walking around in the public for some time openly armed) with an UNLOADED pistol.

It used to chap my butt when I was working for the USAF and agents would go out and about in San Antonio with no weapon, but their belt badge conspicuously displayed FACE IN on their belt, in order to get noticed/discounts/whatever. (Policy prohibited displaying the belt badge when not armed).

Oh well. There are folks who are dedicated, and folks who are posers. Not saying you have to be a Timmy full time, but, if you're openly showing your "colors" you'd best be ready to back up you fashion statement...

[BehindBlueI's]

If we're playing show and tell, I carry:

Belt:
P226
1 reload
badge
sometimes a knife (I'm thinking ahead to SouthNarc's class and after)

Pockets:
Keys
Wallet
Phone
Knife with glass punch and seat belt cutter
Definitely not a sap, but a heavy leather coin purse that might be mistaken for a sap if someone didn't realize it was simply a coin purse.

Ankle:
BUG, LCR but trying out the Shield

Other ankle:
Cuffs
flashlight
tourniquet

In the car, I've got a shotgun and AR, several mags for each, soft and hard armor, helmet, etc.

I can't imagine showing a badge and no firearm. I also cringe when I see the polo/khaki squad with FOBUS non-retention holsters open carrying. Plus polos. Side note, I really dislike the "soft" polo look. A detective is in a position of authority and trust. That is a position for a traditional display of such, at least business casual and preferably a decent suit.

[AMC]

Back when I was in investigations, my load was a 226 .40, 2 spare mags, cuffs, knife in pocket. Leaving the station meant adding OC in the jacket pocket, and of course the radio. Soft armor in an outer carrier was in the trunk, along a bunch of other SHTF gear. No impact weapon.....though policy dictates we carry an approved impact weapon on duty, even in Plainclothes. Only reasonable option for Plainclothes was a yawara....but the hadn't given the class in years (and you couldn't carry it without the class). Hadn't approved the RCB yet, and the ASP was (and still is) restricted to SWAT and K9.......because , ya know, ASP MANDATES that anyone carrying their baton be Re-certified by an ASP instructor every six months in a full day course and, well.....we just can't do that. Even after I put the Lt. and Sgt. at the Academy on speaker phone with the Vice President of LE Training Services for ASP, who told them that was ridiculous and false, and how could they mandate anything to their customers.....soon as we hung up....Lt. looked at me and said, "I still just don't see how we could put everyone through that training every six months..."

[TGS]

On the other end of the spectrum, I've had folks in my agency show up at "investigative activities" with a J-frame and no spare ammunition, a PM9 or G43 and same, or no firearm at all. I don't think I've ever seen anyone with a pair of cuffs except at our annual mandatory "defensive tactics" refresher. I rarely see spare magazines except on the range. I had one agent, in the not too distant past, show up for qualification with no covering garment (so she had been walking around in the public for some time openly armed) with an UNLOADED pistol.

There's definitely some special ones out there.

What gets me are the ones who show up to qual, put on their paddle holster and mag pouch for the qual, and then take it all off at the end of qual and lock it back up before driving back to the office.

I don't get it. They don't carry their weapon because it's a burden, inconvenient, whatever. But it'd be more convenient if they just left it on their belt when they left....they are making even more work for themselves by disarming, and giving themselves more to carry out.....

[serialsolver]

This might be a silly question but we eat lunch at place that gets a good number of law enforcement. The uniformed officers have all their gear but there is a large number of folks that come in a shirt and slacks. They have a badge on the belt and a Glock in a holster. That's it. Given our obsessiveness on reloads, etc. - I wonder why? No visible handcuffs or extra mags. Wouldn't that be useful if there was something bad happening?

One pair had Serpas. Oh, well.

Just asking if there is a usual policy?

Most agencies have policies for what to have while in uniform but no policies for out of uniform.

your comment "given OUR obsessiveness" is the answer. Most cops are not like the folks here at pf. Actually very few cops are like the folks at pf. That's why you see them with just a badge and gun.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[TC215]

There are 8 of us in our narcotics unit...All of us carry a duty gun, cuffs, 1 or 2 extra mags, and a flashlight at all times. Most of us carry a BUG on our ankle.

We had a guy get assigned to narcotics last year and he thought that meant he didn't have to carry a gun anymore. My sergeant wrote him up once for not carrying a gun, and then got a 1 day suspension for not carrying a gun. He's back on patrol now.

[blues]

I'm getting a stiff neck from shaking my head...

[TheNewbie]

There are 8 of us in our narcotics unit...All of us carry a duty gun, cuffs, 1 or 2 extra mags, and a flashlight at all times. Most of us carry a BUG on our ankle.

We had a guy get assigned to narcotics last year and he thought that meant he didn't have to carry a gun anymore. My sergeant wrote him up once for not carrying a gun, and then got a 1 day suspension for not carrying a gun. He's back on patrol now.

??? No gun ???

Did he give a reason ?

[TC215]

??? No gun ???

Did he give a reason ?

"Couldn't conceal it", although the rest of us managed just fine, so he kept it in his truck in case he needed it.

[TheNewbie]

I saw a detective carry a P226 DAK in a leather custom holster. It must have been poorly made or made for something else. The whole trigger area was sticking out above the holster and it had no retention strap on it at all.

[Erick Gelhaus]

As a detective, a LONG time ago, and when working plain clothes in a more recent assignment the rule was always:
- pistol you could fight with, not something tiny & light;
- at least one spare magazine (2 for a 1911, 1 for anything from Glock, S&W, etc);
- badge;
- one pr handcuffs.

The only exception was if you were actually going U/C for a buy and then only when going to / from the buy and during it. The cuffs and spare magazine seem to be much less common now. We did get rid of the G27s with Slurpa holsters and got investigations & Admin into G19s with Safariland holsters.

A lot of it is cultural, are you or aren't you a meat eater. If you are a vegetarian, or worse a vegan, then there was probably a desire to get away from working criminals to begin with. Now there is no need to carry the necessary tools, only the trappings - a badge and a pistol - instead.

[BigDaddy]

If we're playing show and tell, I carry:

I also cringe when I see the polo/khaki squad with FOBUS non-retention holsters open carrying. Plus polos. Side note, I really dislike the "soft" polo look. A detective is in a position of authority and trust. That is a position for a traditional display of such, at least business casual and preferably a decent suit.


This. I DESPISE this latest trend in some suburb PD's. Khakis and polo belong on salesmen, not detective. I remember many years ago locking some guy up and he wouldn't talk. I was of course a young patrolman. We call the dics, they come up and take him away to their office. He's put in a chair and after 30 minutes or so he gives it up. No cajoling, no slapping around, he justs fesses up. I was shocked, couldn't believe it. I asked the dic how he did it. He said he didn't do anything. He just sat the guy down and started the paper work. The guy figured he was in trouble and that the dics knew he did because they were all in suits and ties and just had to know more than a uniform guy,lol.I never forgot that and saw it time and time again, city wide.

[Chuck Whitlock]

I work for a TX Sheriff's Office. Our investigators generally wear jeans and dress shirts, with or without the tie. Badges are usually on a leather holder on the shirt pocket. Most all of them do carry cuffs and one or two spare mags along with a suitable sidearm. One thing I've not seen any of them carry on their persons is a light, which baffles me. I use my light more than any other piece of gear.

[Coyotesfan97]

Last week my squad ate at a Greek place on our training day. We saw a plainclothes squad come in in cargo shorts and t-shirts with drop holsters and badges on neck chains....

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I should mention, in that vein, the restaurant I was in - is a well know place for chicken fried steak. They also do a decent cheeseburger. Good Time Charlies on Broadway in San Antonio. It gets all kinds of folks - dressed up lawyers, plain old folks, military, law, firefighters, etc.

[AMC]

Last week my squad ate at a Greek place on our training day. We saw a plainclothes squad come in in cargo shorts and t-shirts with drop holsters and badges on neck chains....

*Facepalm*......I think I know those guys.

[Lester Polfus]

As an aside:

Our "soft uniform" for certain gigs was an agency polo with Khakis, badge on belt with gun, extra mag and cuffs. When we went out to lunch, at least one person carried a radio.

We wore fullsize, 3rd Gen Smiths. These were giant, bright silver, stainless pistols. The only thing we could have done to make them more visible is bedazzle them with rhinestones, or perhaps drape some christmas lights over the butt. It was interesting to notice how many people in a restaurant would never see them.

We were waiting to be seated once when another lunch goer asked "Do all of you work together?"