Building shooting strength - extracted from the "Hammer thread"

[critter]

I see pistol or revolver shooting as *mostly* about isometric pressure aka strength (more like a kung fu master, than a body builder) in the correct muscles for shooting, and developing independence (as well as strength) in the trigger finger. The body naturally handles that but only as rapidly as you push it. The problem is that most exercise the muscles used for shooting, in the way they need for shooting, only when they are shooting. Lining up sights is something most anyone with vision can do. The point being - 'learning the trigger pull' does take little practice, but it isn't nearly as difficult as it's thought to be or made out to be. What *is* difficult is developing the strength in the correct muscles, the correct way when the only time those muscles are truly worked out is at the range. If you develop the necessary 'shooter's strength', a 12 lb trigger isn't all that difficult nor is holding the weapon steady nor is recoil control. There's a lot one can do away from the range in that regard that makes one virtually weapon independent with only the nuances of whatever unfamiliar weapon to learn. Preparation is boring but the investment pays off - with interest. Just my take on it.




Can you elaborate? I'd be curious to hear more about other exercises.

First off, I'm not a qualified firearms instructor. I can relate only what has worked for me over the years. This is pretty old school stuff.

It's pretty obvious and basic isometric tension for the most part. You can use a blue gun, or an unloaded weapon, or bare hands for that matter, but it's probably better, initially, to use a prop. The trick is to go all out.. crush it. Take your normal shooting stance, or hold if you want to do this seated at a desk, and then intensify this position as strongly as you possibly can. Tighten the grip, the arms, shoulders, chest and hold that extreme tension -- and at the same time, use your trigger finger to gently tap out your count in seconds. While doing this, slowly rotate your head left and right as far as you can and still be able to see the sights (relaxed trigger finger AND neck muscles are key -- no tension in either area and that most likely will take some concentrated 'letting go into relaxation' of those muscles in the beginning). Begin with however long you can hold it, say, a tap out of 10, and work up from there. If done correctly, you'll feel it.. big time.. Begin with two or three reps of this and work up to five - three times or more a day.

The ability to fully control the weapon using a lower percentage of your strength capacity is what this accomplishes.

For the trigger exercise, one of the best things to use is an old, cheap revolver that has the usual, you know, 762lb shitty revolver trigger. The exercise is exactly opposite. You want to hold the weapon(?) as lightly as you can with your hands, and concentrate moving the trigger finger only. Slowly, ridiculously slowly, pull the trigger through the break. On every 5th or so pull, stop and hold the trigger mid to late pull for a count of 10, 15, 20, whatever, making sure your hands are remaining as relaxed as possible, then continue through break, lather, rinse, repeat for say 20 pulls (whatever you can can reasonably comfortably do) at the beginning and work up from there.

This one is working on trigger finger independence and strength simultaneously. You can also use one of those hand exercisers with independent finger springs, but the key is to, as much a possible, relax the other fingers while working the index, and conversely, gently tap the index while holding the other fingers in a one handed grip.

May seem silly, but these do work. Do this for a month and you should see a marked improvement at the range as well as a reduced fatigue level. I still do this stuff, perhaps not every day anymore, but several times a week like clockwork.



I'd be interested in hearing about other exercises, perhaps some new and improved ones by you newfangled shootin' gurus, or more old school tricks that have been proven over time. Chime in.

[s0nspark]

Awesome - this is similar to some exercises I've been working on but some great points there I hadn't considered.

Thanks much!

[critter]

Awesome - this is similar to some exercises I've been working on but some great points there I hadn't considered.

Thanks much!

Well post 'em up, man. Don't be greedy! ;)

[s0nspark]

Well post 'em up, man. Don't be greedy! ;)

Nothing terribly exciting, I'm afraid.

For whatever reason I have little upper body strength as an old guy so I've been exercising at the gym to improve that situation. (The strength part, not the old guy part - I *wish* I could work off the years!)

I use my heaviest DA pistol to dry fire a lot and I also use a hand exerciser designed for guitarists that works each finger - I alternate working on just the trigger finger and then all but that finger, focusing on relaxing the ones I'm excluding as much as I can.

Another "exercise" I've been doing more lately - I play drums (but have been away from the kit for many years) so I've been making a point to work out on a practice pad just doing semi-fast single stroke rolls until my forearms beg for mercy.

It is a slow road but I have been seeing some progress. I really like your suggestion to just crush it with a blue gun... I am incorporating that starting NOW :)

[BehindBlueI's]

Not much to add other than grip strength is huge. I didn't realize how huge until I lost a lot.

[60167]

I've be toying with the idea of getting a DA or DA/SA gun with the intent of improving my Glock shooting performance. Any suggestions?

[breakingtime91]

If you really want to do something that improves grip strength, do dead lifts.

[modrecoil]

If you really want to do something that improves grip strength, do dead lifts.

I concur. Recently added deadlifts back to my routine after giving them up for years (they'll kill your back hype) and saw fast grip strength improvements. Faster than expected for a beaten up, 46-year old body. Just watch your form.

[1slow]

If you really want to do something that improves grip strength, do dead lifts.

Particularly snatch grip (non opposed) deadlifts. Farmers walks are good too. 2" diameter bars make all of this more of a grip exercise.

[Jay Cunningham]

For gripwork employing a cleared gun or prop gun, please be mindful of the potential for repetitive stress injuries similar to Tennis Elbow.

Farmer Carries with very heavy dumbells are good for your grip as well.

[11B10]

The key to success with any exercise program, for any purpose, is variety. While it's good to find exercises that work well for you, you'll also benefit from doing different ones. Some of the best gains I've ever had came from exercises that I originally thought were not for me. Very importantly, always leave enough time for stretching - before, during, and after.

[okie john]

If you really want to do something that improves grip strength, do dead lifts.

I love deadlifts. I feel like I can walk down the street and rip buildings out of the ground when I'm done.

I got deep into a Glock accuracy phase a while ago, and I spent a lot of time screwing around with loads, barrels, sights, etc. I saw little improvements here and there, but once I started hitting the gym regularly, everything got better. Everything you do will help IF the form is right. I'd focus on every muscle between your your waist and your fingertips first, then on your core, then on your legs. Look at the exercises already described, plus any complex, multi-joint lifts.


Okie John

[RJ]

For gripwork employing a cleared gun or prop gun, please be mindful of the potential for repetitive stress injuries similar to Tennis Elbow.

Farmer Carries with very heavy dumbells are good for your grip as well.

Good thread. I'm working on a weight training rotation developed by my trainer I can use traveling. Each session of three has a different set of exercises, and I finish with 20" of cardio at 120 bpm (I'm 58).

I told him I was carrying/lifting a 50 lb hitch stinger periodically, as well as cranking on RV weight distribution bars frequently. Since I started in January, I haven't really lost weight but I do feel much safer doing things I need to do.

I also mentioned I shoot, so for Grip strength he suggested:

- Grabbing a flat sheet of newsprint and proceeding to crumple it, using only one hand.

- Putting an X in a tennis ball and using it for a grip exerciser.

What do y'all think of these?

Thanks for the Farmer Carry suggestion. Saw a guy do that at the gym today; I now know what he was doing walking those 35 lb dumbbells around. I think I'll try that.


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[Jay Cunningham]

Thanks for the Farmer Carry suggestion. Saw a guy do that at the gym today; I now know what he was doing walking those 35 lb dumbbells around. I think I'll try that.

I'm not a real strong guy, but I'm definitely thinking like 70 or 80 lb. dumbbells.

[txdpd]

Wrist rollers are good. by keeping the weight light and focusing on the eccentric, or unrolling portion, they are similar to the flexbar Tyler twist and are good for warm ups, cool downs and general pre/re-hab.

Farmers carry with dumbbells will work your pinch grip more than farmer's carry handles, because the dumbbells will try to roll out of your hands. The handles will work your support grip. If you only have access to light dumbbells and you have the shoulder mobility for it, I think you will get more mileage out of a suitcase/waiter's carry, work the grip on one side and shoulder stability on the other.

[RJ]

I'm not a real strong guy, but I'm definitely thinking like 70 or 80 lb. dumbbells.

Cool.

For me, I screwed up my latissmus dorsi (?) I think it was carrying a old bed to the dumpster last year. Had to get 'the shot' at the Ortho Doc after chuggging Ibuprofen like M&Ms for three days lol.

I still feel it sometimes on lat pull downs and similar.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

The key to success with any exercise program, for any purpose, is variety. While it's good to find exercises that work well for you, you'll also benefit from doing different ones. Some of the best gains I've ever had came from exercises that I originally thought were not for me. Very importantly, always leave enough time for stretching - before, during, and after.

I disagree on the notion of variety. In order to make long term gains you need to progressively increase the load in some way, and that is really really difficult to do unless each time you do the exercise it is the same besides the element you are progressively loading.

For example, lets say one week you deadlift 200lbs 5 sets of 5. If the next week you decide to do Romanian Deadlifts instead and do 4 sets of 8 at 250 pounds, did you improve? There is no way of knowing.
Instead you might want to deadlift 210 pounds the next week, then 220, etc. Until you hit a wall.

Personally I like staying with one exercise 2-4 months before changing anything

Also I perform better if I don't stretch at all before or during a workout. I believe this is typical although YMMV.

Instead of stretching I avoid injury by working opposing muscle groups after very intense exercises. When I do anything that maxes out my grip for example, I follow immediately with Hand Extensions using a thick rubber band.

For grip farmers walks are great and can be done around the house. Currently I grab a 53lb and 66lb kettlebell and just walk around the house with them, totaling about 40 yards including upstairs and turning around. I switch hands between sets and try to do 20 sets in as little time as possible. This works every muscle in the body but especially brutalizes the grip and core, and is really intense cardio.

Another great idea is Fat Gripz. They are basically thick rubber grips which go around any barbell and make it 2"+ thick. You can use them for any pulling exercise.

[1slow]

My Farmers Walk was in 6 50 yard pieces with 1-2 minutes between each 50 yds. Started at the back of the house, uphill and around the house to the end of the front grass (150 yards) turn around and back down.

I use the Rogue Farmers Walk Bar with 3 handle sizes, I used the smallest. I started with 100 lbs per hand and the last training cycle maxed at 132 3/4 pounds per hand. I am 59, 6', 190lbs.

Remember to work the finger extension muscles with rubber bands.

[45dotACP]

BJJ really helped my grip strength...however, gripping some dudes Gi for dear life does rub the skin off your knuckles and I sprained my thumb last week...

Still. Highly recommend. My shooting performance has improved, along with my barehanded ass whuppun skills.

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[DMF13]

If you have a Glock you use just for dry fire you could put a NY2 trigger spring in it, or if you can actually figure out how to change the pull on a SIRT you could set that for an 8 to 9 pound pull.

Although, I will say after watching all the videos on how to adjust the trigger, and fiddled with the SIRT for hours, I still can't figure it out. I wish I had just bought a Glock 17R.

[Shumba]

Folks,
I would suggest respectfully, but firmly, that you should visit a orthopedic hand specialist or sports med doc BEFORE embarking on these exercises.
Tell the doc what you want to accomplish and ask for a script for PT.
I am typing this with old, gnarled, arthritic hands and fingers, replete with ganglion cysts.
Never imagined I would have so many busted parts at retirement.
Shumba

[txdpd]

Farmers carry with dumbbells will work your pinch crush grip more than farmer's carry handles, because the dumbbells will try to roll out of your hands.



Folks,
I would suggest respectfully, but firmly, that you should visit a orthopedic hand specialist or sports med doc BEFORE embarking on these exercises.
Tell the doc what you want to accomplish and ask for a script for PT.
I am typing this with old, gnarled, arthritic hands and fingers, replete with ganglion cysts.
Never imagined I would have so many busted parts at retirement.
Shumba

It never hurts to see a qualified professional, sometimes they usually know what they are talking about. The question is what do you when he tells you most grip strength training is just dumb and not worth the risk? I'm pretty sure I knew better than any doctor when I was younger and I wouldn't have listened to him about some of the long term implications of Strongman and power lifting.

[45dotACP]

It never hurts to see a qualified professional, sometimes they usually know what they are talking about. The question is what do you when he tells you most grip strength training is just dumb and not worth the risk? I'm pretty sure I knew better than any doctor when I was younger and I wouldn't have listened to him about some of the long term implications of Strongman and power lifting.
To be fair...a high level strongman did rupture his aorta...not that such a thing would happen to your typical weightlifting enthusiast, but hey if you play the game you take the risks...play it wrong, use bad form...poof you break your shit fast.

The medical field is always changing so yeah, opinions now are old school in ten years. I'd just focus on weight based strength training for it's documented health benefits. Will your hands not become stronger when you're able to deadlift 315? It's not like Bob Vogel is such a good shooter solely based on his ability to crack a coconut with a firm handshake...

[txdpd]

To be fair...a high level strongman did rupture his aorta...not that such a thing would happen to your typical weightlifting enthusiast, but hey if you play the game you take the risks...play it wrong, use bad form...poof you break your shit fast.

The medical field is always changing so yeah, opinions now are old school in ten years. I'd just focus on weight based strength training for it's documented health benefits. Will your hands not become stronger when you're able to deadlift 315? It's not like Bob Vogel is such a good shooter solely based on his ability to crack a coconut with a firm handshake...

I've seen plenty of injuries with good form. Incredible feats of strength come with incredible risk of injury. Second to common sense, good form is a great way to mitigate risk and prevent acute injury and slow the development of chronic injuries.

I've said that about Vogel for a long time. Focused, goal oriented people find ways to be successful and it rarely boils down to a single factor. The other thing I'll say about Vogel and grip strength training is that he grew up on a farm, which gives him a huge advantage over the common city dweller. He's had a lifetime of grip work to develop his ligaments, tendons, and other slow developing tissues, that tend to get inflamed, irritated and damage when less hardy folks jump into grip strength training. Muscle develop quickly, tendons and ligaments are really slow.

[Gio]

I've posted this here before, but I think it is worth repeating. Rob Shaul (militaryathlete/mountainathlete/strongswiftdurable/mountaintacticalinstitute) did a small statistical study on grip strength. You can read the whole study here: http://mtntactical.com/fitness/grip-strength-matter-test-train/

The bottom line is he found no correlation to improvements in max grip strength (dynamometer strength) by training farmers carry or towel pull ups, even when he saw significant gains in the latter. The best way he found to increase max grip strength was to train actual grip closing exercises like CoC grippers.

I think max grip strength is more important than grip endurance for what we do as shooters, because we generally only have short bursts of fire (<10 seconds).

[txdpd]

I've posted this here before, but I think it is worth repeating. Rob Shaul (militaryathlete/mountainathlete/strongswiftdurable/mountaintacticalinstitute) did a small statistical study on grip strength. You can read the whole study here: http://mtntactical.com/fitness/grip-strength-matter-test-train/

The bottom line is he found no correlation to improvements in max grip strength (dynamometer strength) by training farmers carry or towel pull ups, even when he saw significant gains in the latter. The best way he found to increase max grip strength was to train actual grip closing exercises like CoC grippers.

I think max grip strength is more important than grip endurance for what we do as shooters, because we generally only have short bursts of fire (<10 seconds).

There are three types of grip: crush, pinch and support. Assessing "maximum" grip strength by closing the fingers on a dynanometer measures crush grip. Farmers carry with kettlebells primarily requires a support grip to keep the fingers closed around the kettlebell. The towel pullups as described primarily require a pinch grip to hold the towel in the hand. He's training support grip and pinch grip, and then assessing the training by measuring crush grip. That's like spending all day training the Bill drill and then assessing your speed and ability to transition between targets by shooting a group for accuracy at 100 yards. Ironically, the author summed up pretty well at the end, train for the type of grip you're going to be testing.

Personally I think support grip, endurance, trumps absolute crush grip strength in shooting. Consistency in training is the foundation to build upon, having the same grip from the first shot in training to the last shot, is more important than having a strong crush grip that fades through out the training session. It's not that hard to make a weak grip stronger and the improvements will be immediate. An inconsistent grip, no matter how strong, will hinder improvement.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Great posts Gio and Txdpd

Here's the next question: does shooting a string of fire with a pistol most resemble support or crushing grip?

It seems to me it is closest to support since you are holding your hand in a position and resisting the tendency to loosen your fingers, whereas when crushing grippers you are moving your fingers the whole time.

Also crushing involves nearly touching your fingers to each other, whereas when I hold onto a kettlebell my fingers are flexed to a similar position to where they are on a gun.

[taadski]

Here's the next question: does shooting a string of fire with a pistol most resemble support or crushing grip?


Didn't they both just answer exactly that? (Albeit with contrasting opinions) ;)

[Gio]

Didn't they both just answer exactly that? (Albeit with contrasting opinions) ;)

We did. I think it ultimately depends on your goals. I rarely stand in one spot shooting for more than 5-10 seconds at a time without running out of bullets and needing to reload (thus allowing me to temporarily relax my grip before going back to max) or needing to move. If you find yourself standing 10+ seconds at a time squeezing the gun while holding it on target I think pinch/squeeze grip is likely more important.

I will add, I think increasing any aspect of your grip strength (crush, pinch, squeeze) is WAY down on the list of things that will make a noticeable improvement in your shooting. I think the bigger problem shooters have is they don't use a significant amount of the grip strength they already have. When you get to the point you're grasping at any minor thing you can to squeeze (pun!) a little more recoil control, slightly faster splits, etc out of your shooting, maybe you will see some benefit.

FWIW, I reached GM in USPSA without ever specifically training my grip. I got a set of CoC grippers in the last few months though and have been slowly working up to closing a 2.5 (about 3-4mm away). I have noticed a slight difference in recoil control, which is only really noticeable in bill drills or splits at 25-50 yd distances.