First home built Chinese Aircraft carrier launched

[Glenn E. Meyer]

https://news.usni.org/2017/04/26/video-china-launches-first-domestic-aircraft-carrier

Neat Chinese animation of its construction. Of course, folks will say it doesn't match a new Ford class or the older US carriers but it's clear China is the blue water game.

Will the Japanese be in the game? They have those large helicopter carriers. The world will be interesting.

[Peally]

I wonder if they serve up General Tao's on board or bring in exotic McDonald's once in a while.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The real rule of warfare for the USA is only to fight countries that will bring new and good take out to the country. In good ol' San Antonio, I sat down for a bowl of Pho yesterday and have a favorite Middle Eastern restaurant. They are springing up all over the city.

China - fought them in Korea
Korea - we fought them
Mexico - we fought them
Viet Nam - we fought them - and got Thai from our bases there.
Middle Eastern - need I say more.

Anyway, you are diverting me from a serious discussion of the future Mahan-ian battle for the oceans. Budding Tom Clancy-oids are already writing crappy naval novels.

[Peally]

God help us if we fight the British again.

[RoyGBiv]

The real rule of warfare for the USA is only to fight countries that will bring new and good take out to the country. In good ol' San Antonio, I sat down for a bowl of Pho yesterday and have a favorite Middle Eastern restaurant. They are springing up all over the city.

China - fought them in Korea
Korea - we fought them
Mexico - we fought them
Viet Nam - we fought them - and got Thai from our bases there.
Middle Eastern - need I say more.

Anyway, you are diverting me from a serious discussion of the future Mahan-ian battle for the oceans. Budding Tom Clancy-oids are already writing crappy naval novels.

Following that logic, I hope we fight Malaysia soon. Not enough Malay take-out here. Thai comes close, but...

[Totem Polar]

Peru, we've got our eye on you.

[Default.mp3]

I wonder if they serve up General Tao's on board or bring in exotic McDonald's once in a while.General Tso's Chicken? Why would they serve Mexican food on an Chinese warship?

Having a carrier doesn't mean much if they're still trying to figure out how to actually run carrier ops, IMO. The PLAN's got a pretty cool piece of hardware now, but the real key will be how long it'll take for them to master the concept of a CVBG.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

How long did it take the Japanese? Plus they have years of experience from the USA, UK and Japan to read up on.

[Lon]

God help us if we fight the British again.

Don't like fish n chips and warm beer? WTF is wrong with you?:cool:

[Glenn E. Meyer]

The local fish and chips outfit based on a British chain folded here. Of course, the British are now fitting out two large carriers but don't really have the planes for them to be fully functional.

[Default.mp3]

How long did it take the Japanese? Plus they have years of experience from the USA, UK and Japan to read up on.Well, AFAIK, the Soviets never really figured it out, and the Russians still haven't; the UK and the French might have it down a bit better, but I suspect that the Brits are still kinda meh, given how the Invincible class was such a small platform with a different role than the Nimitz class. The logistics train is by far the hardest part, is my understanding. WW2 carrier doctrine is probably only applicable in broad strokes these days, given the advances in C4ISTAR, and the Devil is always in the details.

[Arbninftry]

We need to invade Sweden ;)
We need more Swedish Natives to migrate here.

[Peally]

If the Swedish natives move here Sweden will just be Syria v2.0 :P

[GuanoLoco]

I need to take on India. Not nearly enough good Indian food in the South.

[Greg]

We need to invade Sweden ;)
We need more Swedish Natives to migrate here.

Too many of them look like this now
16072

[LorenzoS]

Joke all you want about the performance compared to US carriers, just like we mock their space program for lacking innovation or new technology. But the experience China gains in planning, developing, building and operating large programs like this is really where the danger lies for the US. These are many of the same management and control skills needed to wage large scale warfare.

[luckyman]

If the Swedish natives move here Sweden will just be Syria v2.0 :P

Actually this sounds like a plan I would support.

[Drang]

Naval Air: China Embraces Reality (https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20170105.aspx)

January 5, 2017: China continues to create a carrier aviation capability and to the consternation of neighbors and the United States, the Chinese are doing it the only way known to work. That is, one step at a time, with persistence and a willingness to learn from mistakes and quickly adapt. There is no fast-track to creating a carrier aviation capability and the Chinese apparently understood that from the beginning.

...Back in late 2015, there was confirmation that China was indeed building a second aircraft carrier. The design is apparently based on the Liaoning. In other words a 65,000 ton, 305 meters (999 feet) long ship that is actually a modified version of the last Cold War Russian carrier design. China also confirmed that the new carrier would also have the ski jump deck like Liaoning.

The Liaoning spent over a year on sea trials and by early 2016 entered regular service as a training carrier. Since its 2012 commissioning Liaoning has been used for training and getting experience with carrier operations. During that time Liaoning began flight operations in November 2012 and these were such a success that the Chinese built “carrier fighter” J-15 (a Su-27 variant) eventually participated in these carrier operations. In 2013 China confirmed that the Liaoning will primarily be a training carrier but will be capable of combat operations. The Chinese apparently plan to station up to 24 jet fighters and 26 helicopters on the Liaoning and use the ship to train pilots and other specialists for additional carriers. Meanwhile, the Liaoning will also be staffed and equipped as a combat ship as well but it is officially a training carrier and will spend most of its sea time training crews and pilots for the new carriers as well as ship crews for the carriers and their escorts.

Liaoning began as one of the two Kuznetsov class carriers that Russia began building in the 1980s. Originally the Kuznetsovs were to be 90,000 ton nuclear powered ships (the Ulanovsk class), similar to American Nimitz class carriers (complete with steam catapults). Instead, because of the high cost and the complexity of modern (American style) carriers, the Russians were forced to scale back their plans and ended up with 65,000 ton (full load) ships that lacked steam catapults and used a ski jump type flight deck instead. Nuclear power was dropped but the Kuznetsovs were still a formidable design.

Force projection is force projection, but there are levels.