Shooting Dogs

[NH Shooter]

As a sixty-something guy who has had a dog in my family for my entire life, I know well the deep emotional bonds we can make with our "canine family members." After nearly 40 years of marriage and with our human children living their own lives as responsible adults, we have an even deeper bond with our current dogs (both rescue mutts) who feel more like surrogate children than pets.

I have also been a firearms enthusiast and competitive shooter for over 35 years. I take my skills and responsibilities very seriously, from the safe handling and storage of firearms to being able and ready to defend myself and my family with deadly force should such an unfortunate circumstance ever present itself. These two passions co-exist in harmony, but I can certainly envision unexpected confrontations (http://www.gunnuts.net/2014/09/02/shooting-in-defense-of-pets/) that would require absolute objectivity and clarity of thought to avoid a greater tragedy.

Just as situational awareness plays a huge role in personal protection, so it does in dog ownership. Simply stated, in most circumstances deadly force can be used against dogs with legal impunity. Here is a typical example (http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130110/NEWS07/130119949&template=mobileart) that occurred in NH but is common news just about everywhere.

It is for this reason we must not only exercise extreme "SA" with our dogs but also do our best at all times and all places to anticipate and avoid situations that could lead to tragic unintended consequences. Though there may not be any legal repercussions, the emotional and social costs of shooting someone's pet should not be underestimated. This is especially true for LE when something like this happens (https://crimewatchdaily.com/2015/11/10/salt-lake-city-cop-shoots-dog-dead-in-back-yard-owner-wants-1-5-million/). As Americans we have 4th Amendment expectations of being safe and secure in our homes (and on our property) from governmental intrusion. Luckily, there are now training programs for LEO (http://thefreethoughtproject.com/amazing-body-cam-cop-courage-cowardice-attacked-2-vicious-dogs/) that will help avoid these unnecessary killings and the considerable political/social fallout that is generated by them.

For civilians who carry for self-defense, the old adage just because you can doesn't mean your should (http://www.phrasemix.com/phrases/just-because-you-can-doesnt-mean-you-should) applies to the use of deadly force in encounters with dogs, especially so in cases where the presence of dogs is expected (like on someone else's property). If encounters with unattended canines in public areas are a normal occurrence in your life, carrying something like pepper spray might be a better and far less risky first line of defense. At the very least, learn to speak dog (http://www.doggonesafe.com/Speak_Dog).

Dog owners need to "own up" and be responsible as well - allowing your dog(s) outdoors unattended is an invitation to disaster. If your dog "bites" a child (in quotation marks because playful, non-aggressive mouthing can be construed as a bite), you could face civil liability and the emotional stress of having your dog put down, even if someone trespasses on your property (http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/personal-injury/homeowner-liability-dog-bites-trespassers.html). It only gets worse if the bite causes substantial and/or permanent injury.

Sadly, there is no shortage of irresponsible dog and gun owners. It is only through education that unneeded dog shootings and all of the unintended consequences can be reduced. As an unabashed dog lover and student of the gun, I hope this post and the links provided offers some useful food for thought on the subject.

[LittleLebowski]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

[voodoo_man]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

It is an unfortunate circumstance to do this but it is most definitely a modern day issue. 50 years ago this wasn't even up for conversation.

[LittleLebowski]

It is an unfortunate circumstance to do this but it is most definitely a modern day issue. 50 years ago this wasn't even up for conversation.

Because people think dogs are people.

[Mntneer357]

I've had and known dogs in my life that are far better than a lot of the people I've come across.

That said, dog owners *do* need to be responsible and, you know, actually take care of their pets. Don't let your dog run loose, keep them in your (preferably fenced) yard. That sort of thing. My dog (God rest her soul) was always either on leash or in my (fenced) yard. That's *my* idea of being a good pet owner.

[NH Shooter]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

A viscous unprovoked attack, yes. But in most cases child bites are avoidable with little bit of parent-child training;

http://stopthe77.com/

From first-hand experience I can attest that unattended children "off leash" are a major hazard for dog owners.

[LittleLebowski]

A viscous unprovoked attack, yes. But in most cases child bites are avoidable with little bit of parent-child training;

http://stopthe77.com/

From first-hand experience I can attest that unattended children "off leash" are a major hazard for dog owners.

I hold my dog to very high standards and have no worries about children "off leash." Anyone's child is more important than my dog.

[Peally]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

Depends on the dog and the child's actions. I sure as shit wouldn't without a damn good reason.

ETA: the reason for teeing up this thread is?

[Mntneer357]

From first-hand experience I can attest that unattended children "off leash" are a major hazard for dog owners.

Unattended children "off leash" are often a hazard for other people, with or without dogs. And, it gets worse as kids get older. Of course when you bring that to the attention of said child's parents, you're an asshole, hater, etc. Heaven forbid anybody take responsibility for their own charges.

[LittleLebowski]

Depends on the dog and the child's actions. I sure as shit wouldn't without a damn good reason.

ETA: the reason for teeing up this thread is?

Have no idea on your question, but to be fair, it would have to be a bite. That being said, dispatching one's animal in case of attacking a human in public sans protecting its owner, can save you from a lawsuit as well.

I'm happy to own and to have owned, large, toothy, guard dogs whom are and were completely safe around children. I see dogs as dogs, might be my agricultural upbringing, but I make no apologies for it. I also don't go around looking for a reason to shoot dogs either.

[RJ]

About the only time I've put my hand on my grip "for real" was with our neighbor across the way in our old house.

It seems he had three Rottweilers, and liked to herd two of them into his truck without a lead when he went to work. Sometimes they got loose and wandered the neighborhood. The other guy was kept in the back yard. My only exposure to him was a very deep seated growl when I would walk my mini-Schnauzer on the sidewalk on his side.

One day one of them surprised me in my yard as I was walking to the truck. I was a bit shook, and backed into the house with a master grip on my pistol. We called the cops because this just wasn't right. Saw a squad visit the house within 5 minutes for about an hour.

Not sure what the deal was with this guy, but apparently from other folks in the neighborhood, this guy lets this happen a lot.

Reflecting on the incident, I am not sure what would have triggered a shoot reaction from me. I honestly wasn't sure which Rottie it was, but I chose to back off on my own property, and inform law enforcement about it.

If I was caught on my property, with no available physical barrier, and had a large aggressive breed display hostility in front of me (focus on me, teeth bare, deep growl, large physically aggressive dog) I would go to low ready and try to slowly back up. I think a 'shoot' decision would be movement towards me, either a lunge or running towards me at speed.

I'd be interested in other perspectives. Shooting a dog does not thrill me, but circumstances would dictate my reaction.

[Zincwarrior]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

What if a child bites my dog?

Wiener dogs and (evidently) half breed mountain dogs attract children like well dogs to steak. We let the big mountain dog intercept them as he's a great ambassador, whereas the the wiener dog was a highly traumatized stray so we keep kids (and people) back. We also had an old wiener dog-probably the most ornery animal in history (he was the greatest dog ever) but when other dogs or people would come up he, like a regular British gentleman. Little kids are dangerous though because they will come running without regard. I've had more than one free range child tear across a street towards us and almost get hit by a car.

But loose dogs are a menace. While walking just the mountain dog about a month ago we were attacked when a pit bull came out an open door.

[blues]

Living in an area where many of the folks think it's par for the course to let their dogs roam free during the day (and sometimes night), this is an issue which is a pet peeve of mine.

We never allow our animals to roam without supervision and I've taken to task some of my neighbors for dogs that have either attacked other dogs in the area, preyed on deer or small animals or set up and did damage on property not their own.

I don't like to have to bring it to their attention but it is better than my having to possibly injure an animal that shouldn't have been running free to begin with. I will not allow my wife or my dog to be a target for undisciplined animals or their owners.

None of my dogs have ever posed an issue for any neighbor or visitor to our home or property.


ETA:

I've had to draw on and come close to shooting dogs (Rotties, et al) on and off the job when they were threatening. Not pleasant at all.

[LittleLebowski]

If it's just me and it's not say a large Molosser or German/Dutch/Belgian Shepherd breed, I am fine with taking a bite, and beating the fuck out of the dog. Situation dependent.

[LittleLebowski]

What if a child bites my dog?

Do you think your dog is a person and merits protecting as such? Try it and enjoy financial ruin.

[spinmove_]

I've never had to draw my pistol in self-defense (hopefully I'll never have to), but if one did encounter a dog how would a dog typically react to getting 200+ lumens to the eyes? Just wondering as that's a possible solution to helping manage human aggressors before having to escalate.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[LittleLebowski]

I've never had to draw my pistol in self-defense (hopefully I'll never have to), but if one did encounter a dog how would a dog typically react to getting 200+ lumens to the eyes? Just wondering as that's a possible solution to helping manage human aggressors before having to escalate.


I don't think it would do anything.

[Zincwarrior]

Do you think your dog is a person and merits protecting as such? Try it and enjoy financial ruin.
1. You must be a gas at parties.
2. Not sure how you went from "what happens if a child bites my dog" to "enjoy financial ruin." As the immortal bard once said: "Thats about a nine on the tension scale there Vern."

[Vinnie Bagadonuts]

I'm a life long dog owner and animal lover. But like many of my acquaintances I'm on a blood thinner called coumadin. One serious bite from an unsupervised pit bull would mean I would probably bleed to death before the ambulance arrived. Just as we do with humans a gun should always be a last resort. For the most part if pet owners obey the local ordinances this should be a non issue. If not the animal may suffer because of the irresponsible owner.

[LittleLebowski]

1. You must be a gas at parties.
2. Not sure how you went from "what happens if a child bites my dog" to "enjoy financial ruin." As the immortal bard once said: "Thats about a nine on the tension scale there Vern."

I see no need to get personal. Did you not turn this discussion into debating whether or not it's OK to shoot a child for biting an animal?

Here's what you said:


What if a child bites my dog?

Furthermore, do you not think you would be sued into financial ruin if you used any type of violence towards a child in public for "harming" a dog unless it was sick, very violent actions by the child towards the animal?

[JHC]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

QFT

[Zincwarrior]

I see no need to get personal. Did you not turn this discussion into debating whether or not it's OK to shoot a child for biting an animal?

Here's what you said:



Furthermore, do you not think you would be sued into financial ruin if you used any type of violence towards a child in public for "harming" a dog unless it was sick, very violent actions by the child towards the animal?

I think you have me confused with another poster. I was making a joke about someone a person biting my dog. You know...man bites dog?



You are relatively new here, but this topic has come up before and it's always a mess. I don't suspect this thread will be any different, but hope springs eternal.

Evidently...;)

To lighten things up:
Methods to deter random child attacks on your dog.
*Rolled up newspaper. A time honored tradition, always best used with "NO NO Bad Child!"
*A water squirter. Often a humane alternative to the rolled up newspaper. ~15% of feral children however will think it is a game. Their laughter and squeeling will typically attract other feral children until you have a hole feral munchkin pack circling you, demanding to be spritzed in turn.
*Candy. While not an actual deterrance, candy has been proven to be an effective distraction in the past. Throw the candy to the side. When the feral younglings veer off towards the candy you and your canines make a break for it. Also good for Zombies and meter maids.

[Peally]

You are relatively new here, but this topic has come up before and it's always a mess. I don't suspect this thread will be any different, but hope springs eternal. :)

These threads are basically pointless drama fountains. No reason to start them, nothing gets done.

[orionz06]

It would be hard but if I had a Shepard/husky like I want and it bit a child it'd be on the table.

There again it all depends on what happened. If some breeder couldn't keep their brat under control they'd surely hear from a lawyer.



These threads suck though because some people think that others treat their dogs like screwdrivers and toss them in the box and others feel that folks treat them like toddlers and throw them costume parties and give them cakes with candles and shit.

Truth is we're all in the middle and the strange hypotheticals won't ever happen so....





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vinnie Bagadonuts]

These threads are basically pointless drama fountains. No reason to start them, nothing gets done.

I agree. This is a hot button issue which is unlikely to see a reasonable or unbiased conclusion.

[NH Shooter]

I've had and known dogs in my life that are far better than a lot of the people I've come across.

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

[JHC]

These threads suck though because some people think that others treat their dogs like screwdrivers and toss them in the box and others feel that folks treat them like toddlers and throw them costume parties and give them cakes with candles and shit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's damned funny right there. This topic is going to need more humor before too long.

[LittleLebowski]

I think you have me confused with another poster. I was making a joke about someone a person biting my dog. You know...man bites dog?



Evidently...;)

To lighten things up:
Methods to deter random child attacks on your dog.
*Rolled up newspaper. A time honored tradition, always best used with "NO NO Bad Child!"
*A water squirter. Often a humane alternative to the rolled up newspaper. ~15% of feral children however will think it is a game. Their laughter and squeeling will typically attract other feral children until you have a hole feral munchkin pack circling you, demanding to be spritzed in turn.
*Candy. While not an actual deterrance, candy has been proven to be an effective distraction in the past. Throw the candy to the side. When the feral younglings veer off towards the candy you and your canines make a break for it. Also good for Zombies and meter maids.

Ah, I get it now. Cool, my apologies.

[NH Shooter]

ETA: the reason for teeing up this thread is?

Fair question - look here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25350-Hammer-fired-guns-in-a-Striker-fired-world/page17).

I thought based on that discussion this one would produce some useful discussion. Please feel free to delete or lock if not.

[LittleLebowski]

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

Well, reality is tough. Reality is that if your dog bites a kid, you will pay, and probably the dog too. Doesn't matter about hypotheticals, if the kid had it coming, etc. Reality is tough. Personally, I don't find it hard to train dogs to tolerate children.

[MistWolf]

One hard lesson I learned very early in life- Never run from a dog. Stand your ground. If you shove your arm hard all the way back into a dog's jaws, they can't get enough leverage to bite. I've stopped charging dogs dead in their tracks by telling them in a command voice "No! Bad dog!"

I've defended myself from an attacking dog by hitting him hard one the nose with a leather leash. Turned out the reason the dog came after me was the kids who owned it got their jollies by hiding while siccing their dog on other kids. (I was a teen at the time.)

Many dog owners tell me, when I first met their dog "Don't worry, he doesn't bite" I always respond "God gave all His creatures teeth for a reason".

I love dogs. Growing up, we had good sized GSDs and Saint Bernards, among others and they were good and true companions

[LittleLebowski]

These threads are basically pointless drama fountains. No reason to start them, nothing gets done.

Yup.

[Zincwarrior]

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

That is officially weird. I feel sorry for the kids. Life is going to treat them harshly if thats their father, who appears to be high on the "stupid" scale. That kind of genetics I hope they are tough.

Inversely one of my best dog moments was taking the (then young) mountain dog across the street to standout side the elementary school waiting for the daughter. All the kids coming out turned into this conga line of children petting him and getting a lick in the face in turn. Pet-lick pet-lick pet-lick...

[blues]

The fact is, depending on where you live, dog issues are a big part of everyday life.

Hereabouts, when I traipse the ten or twelve minutes it takes to walk down to the main road for the mail and then back up afterward, I may encounter anywhere from zero to a half dozen dogs on any given day.

I used to carry an Irish blackthorn walking stick with me and I've had occasion to give one or two unruly curs a gentle reminder to be on their way.

When the Weimaraner in my avatar was alive we were once beset by a pair of Rotties who came running like missiles down the hill at us with bad intent. My wife was about 50 yards uphill from me on the road. I drew on the first one's head and yelled a command at it and the combination of presence and standing my ground penetrated their prehistoric brains and stopped 'em in their tracks just before they'd have been in lunging range. I'm not sure the 9mm would have considering there were two and they were large specimens.

I learned during search and arrest warrants that a forceful voice and a gun pointed in their direction will deter many animals (if they have not been trained to attack with or without command). Of course, it's always a crap shoot.

When my wife walks our current dog, (a 60 lb. female Boxer / Staffie mix), she has to be alert for any of a number of regular canine interlopers who hang around the area or the neighbors properties.

It's a daily fact of life...much like it is for many others here on the board. Very much dependent upon the type of locale you reside in and the local customs. Most of the knuckleheads around here could use a good boot in the ass when it comes to taking responsibility for their animals behavior outside their home.

[LittleLebowski]

Fair question - look here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25350-Hammer-fired-guns-in-a-Striker-fired-world/page17).

I thought based on that discussion this one would produce some useful discussion. Please feel free to delete or lock if not.

The guy that posted that isn't a scared person looking to shoot dogs.

[GuanoLoco]

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

Feral children and their negligent genetic contributors should be avoided at all costs, regardless of how sweet your dog normally is.

Children and their parents seem to feel entitled to act in completely inappropriate ways with animals (pets, livestock, wild critters) and then are surprised at the predictable results. Apparently they feel it is someone else's responsibility to keep their kids genes in the gene pool.

I've had a similar situation where I was obedience training my (2 at the time) large dogs in a park near people and had parents report me for nothing. LEO shows up, watches me a while (dogs are pretty well trained), briefly chats me up and says "carry on".

[LittleLebowski]

Feral children and their negligent genetic contributors should be avoided at all costs, regardless of how sweet your dog normally is.

Children and their parents seem to feel entitled to act in completely inappropriate ways with animals (pets, livestock, wild critters) and then are surprised at the predictable results. Apparently they feel it is someone else's responsibility to keep their kids genes in the gene pool.

I've had a similar situation where I was obedience training my (2 at the time) large dogs in a park near people and had parents report me for nothing. LEO shows up, watches me a while (dogs are pretty well trained), briefly chats me up and says "carry on".

Absolutely. If you wouldn't want to associate with/talk to their parents, avoid the kids as well.

[NH Shooter]

The guy that posted that isn't a scared person looking to shoot dogs.

Perhaps.

None of us were there, none of us know the back-story, so who are we to judge? That said, IMO sharing such a (what I would consider very private) story to validate an opinion on trigger design comes across as cold and cavalier.

But then again, maybe it's just me turning into a snowflake in my old age....

[Zincwarrior]

Absolutely. If you wouldn't want to associate with/talk to their parents, avoid the kids as well.

Much wisdom here.

[LittleLebowski]

Perhaps.

None of us were there, none of us know the back-story, so who are we to judge? That said, IMO sharing such a (what I would consider very private) story to validate an opinion on trigger design comes across as cold and cavalier.

But then again, maybe it's just me turning into a snowflake in my old age....

You don't come across as being cold and cavalier, you come across as being more attached to your dogs than I. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

[blues]

You don't come across as being cold and cavalier, you come across as being more attached to your dogs than I. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

That observation rings true with me. People are very different with their animals. My brother-in-law, who is a good and intelligent man, had a GSD most of his early life but when it came to making decisions that dealt with or impacted the dog, "it's just a dog" was pretty much his mindset.

On the opposite side of the spectrum I'm one that can live without a dog but if one is sharing space in my home I'm more than likely to treat it with more consideration than I do most humans. (And certainly prefer it to most as well but that nearly goes without saying.)

I've definitely become a snowflake when it comes to our dogs. For good or bad.

[NEPAKevin]

I've stopped charging dogs dead in their tracks by telling them in a command voice "No! Bad dog!"



I worked with a couple of guys who raised Dobermans and one time amidst other BSing one of them mentioned that "shut up" is almost a universal command for dogs. Over the years, I have had several occasions to deal with unknown dogs acting aggressively and by addressing them with a command voice to "shut up" have always gotten an adequate response. Giving this a little more thought now, this theory assumes that the dog has been raised by English speaking owners and might not work so well in areas of ethnic diversity.

[LittleLebowski]

I've stopped charging dogs dead in their tracks by telling them in a command voice "No! Bad dog!"


Same here, got charged by a friend's 120lb Boerboel (https://static.wixstatic.com/media/8ad810_4afacbbfd9c24274b26a0492eacffa76.jpg_srz_23 7_284_85_22_0.50_1.20_0.00_jpg_srz) and came damn close to jumping back in the truck, but I used my voice and demeanor to tell her to knock it off. It worked. I was packing at the time, of course.

[NH Shooter]

You don't come across as being cold and cavalier, you come across as being more attached to your dogs than I. That's not an insult, it's an observation.

And a fair and appreciated one at that. Thank you.

[blues]

Speaking of shooting dogs and owner's relationships with them...

Years ago we had an SRT call out and had to fly to the Naples, FL area in a Black Hawk to take down a subject out in the 'glades.

As the primary (with shotgun) went up the stairs the subject either allowed or sent his pit out to meet him.

I was back a ways with a Steyr AUG and had just drawn a bead on the dog when I hear the guy yell "don't shoot my dog, I'll come out" and he did.
(Not sure if was able to see me through a window or peephole.)

Saved me from having to kill a dog and also put an end to what might otherwise have become a barricaded subject.

Dogs, though, are smart. I remember one little pint size yapper that was giving me shit while conducting a search until I turned to him and pulled my gov't model .45. He then looked at me like, "I wasn't barking at you, I didn't even know you were in here" and left the room. I had to chuckle.

[Totem Polar]

One bottom line: I really like having dogs around, and have all my life. Much like firearms. And, much like firearms, dogs shouldn't be passed around the general public. Vetted people only (which can be a lot of people, true, I'm not saying don't socialize your dog like it's a second job; do, it's fun). Concealed means concealed; leashed means leashed. Any time a dog is with you in public, they are working as your companion and guardian, at least in their minds. Working dogs should be left to do their work. JMO.

On another topic, If nothing else, this thread gives me yet one more opportunity to drop this nugget: nunchaku work really well at stopping a charging dog. Just so y'all know.

[LittleLebowski]

Also, a dog in public doesn't mean that the dog is open to all public attention. It's a private possession.

[RevolverRob]

I love dogs. LOVE THEM. More than most people, I love dogs.

I've shot a dog before. I'll do it again if I have to.

In the case of the one I shot, I was sitting on the porch of my sister's house with my then 18-month old nephew and my sister's 12-year old Maine Coon cat. I went inside for a glass of iced tea (the kiddo was being watched by my sister). When I came out a loose pitbull mix had charged into the yard and grabbed the cat and was in the process of killing it. My sister had grabbed the kid. I drew down and shot the dog in the head, once. The cat was already dead (broken back). When the cops got there, the owners of the dog had come looking for it and everyone convened on the scene simultaneously. It was a fucking nightmare, but I was not even cuffed. And the dog owners were fined for allowing the pet loose. Animal control went over to their house and found four more pit mixes that were all horribly abused and incredibly angry, all had to be put down (someways I wished it had been the dog owners and not the dog in the yard...).

Dogs are wonderful animals, when they are cared for and about. And when they aren't, they are just animals. Like some humans are amazing and wonderful people and others are just animals. If you have qualms shooting an animal attacking your family, be it four-legged or two-legged, then you need to get right with yourself when it comes to packing a piece for protection.

I would never hesitate to put a charging animal down of any variety. In this case, the dog snatched the cat, who (according to my sister) dove at the dog, when the dog was zeroed in on my nephew, and probably saved my nephew's life. He was a courageous and great animal and pet (RIP Ash). The attacker was savage and killed to kill, because it didn't know and was never trained not to. A bullet to the brain ended that and any other harm it could do to other animals or people.

At the end of the day, anything hell bent on harming you or your family, needs to be dealt with quickly. If lethal force is necessary, dole it out quickly, but judiciously. You can always try to deescalate a situation, but you may not have a chance. What has to be done, has to be done.

[LittleLebowski]

I love dogs. LOVE THEM. More than most people, I love dogs.

I've shot a dog before. I'll do it again if I have to.

In the case of the one I shot, I was sitting on the porch of my sister's house with my then 18-month old nephew and my sister's 12-year old Maine Coon cat. I went inside for a glass of iced tea (the kiddo was being watched by my sister). When I came out a loose pitbull mix had charged into the yard and grabbed the cat and was in the process of killing it. My sister had grabbed the kid. I drew down and shot the dog in the head, once. The cat was already dead (broken back). When the cops got there, the owners of the dog had come looking for it and everyone convened on the scene simultaneously. It was a fucking nightmare, but I was not even cuffed. And the dog owners were fined for allowing the pet loose. Animal control went over to their house and found four more pit mixes that were all horribly abused and incredibly angry, all had to be put down (someways I wished it had been the dog owners and not the dog in the yard...).

Dogs are wonderful animals, when they are cared for and about. And when they aren't, they are just animals. Like some humans are amazing and wonderful people and others are just animals. If you have qualms shooting an animal attacking your family, be it four-legged or two-legged, then you need to get right with yourself when it comes to packing a piece for protection.

I would never hesitate to put a charging animal down of any variety. In this case, the dog snatched the cat, who (according to my sister) dove at the dog, when the dog was zeroed in on my nephew, and probably saved my nephew's life. He was a courageous and great animal and pet (RIP Ash). The attacker was savage and killed to kill, because it didn't know and was never trained not to. A bullet to the brain ended that and any other harm it could do to other animals or people.

At the end of the day, anything hell bent on harming you or your family, needs to be dealt with quickly. If lethal force is necessary, dole it out quickly, but judiciously. You can always try to deescalate a situation, but you may not have a chance. What has to be done, has to be done.

We can hang out.

[blues]

One bottom line: I really like having dogs around, and have all my life. Much like firearms. And, much like firearms, dogs shouldn't be passed around the general public. Vetted people only (which can be a lot of people, true, I'm not saying don't socialize your dog like it's a second job; do, it's fun). Concealed means concealed; leashed means leashed. Any time a dog is with you in public, they are working as your companion and guardian, at least in their minds. Working dogs should be left to do their work. JMO.

On another topic, If nothing else, this thread gives me yet one more opportunity to drop this nugget: nunchaku work really well at stopping a charging dog. Just so y'all know.

^^^well said, brother.^^^

[jwperry]

I could go through and 'like' every post by LittleLebowski, but that would get a bit repetitive. RevolverRob summed up pretty much anything I would want to say as well.

I remember when this exact topic came up on another board a few years back; a farmer/rancher out west had a pile of coyotes that caused a stir of emotion. What usually comes out are the people who work with and rely on animals for livelihood and those who view animals solely as companions. A different mindset is required for each point of view and many people can't/won't reconcile this.

The next step in this will be discussing putting down large/wild cats..

[StraitR]

Perhaps.

None of us were there, none of us know the back-story, so who are we to judge? That said, IMO sharing such a (what I would consider very private) story to validate an opinion on trigger design comes across as cold and cavalier.

But then again, maybe it's just me turning into a snowflake in my old age....

I think most of the active membership here has a pretty good handle on the others. I'm to the point that as soon as I read a thread title, I can almost predict with certainty the responses from a lot of the active members. I know who is typically passionate about subject XYZ, and after reading certain posts, who specifically will come along to refute it. I know who likes to do drive-by trolling, and the topics that they find irresistible. Most can predict within a page or two when a thread will jump the tracks, or jump the shark, and who will most likely be at the helm. The signal to noise stays pretty clear through intentional restraint by many to keep the discussion under control and on topic, which is why everyone enjoys PFestivus*.

Point is, the greatest attribute of PF, being a relatively small and close-knit community, allows people to get a good sense of everyone's character given enough time. It's also the driver of trust, eventually showing itself as comfort, in which someone would share a personal story like that without fear of being chastised as a "trigger happy dog killer". Because, well, we know he's not.

To address the thread topic, as a dog lover and parent, I can only assume responsibility for the actions of my own. Constant supervision of both is daily SOP, but both kids and dogs have their moments, and nobody (read: parent or owner) is perfect. I pray that I never have to shoot anything that's living and breathing, especially somebodies dog, but in the same breath I can say that I would not hesitate to do so to protect my family.

*I've really been disappointed this year in that I have nothing of any substance for PFestivus. I'll have to make a sweet haiku about shooting dogs.

[orionz06]

I'll have to make a sweet haiku about shooting dogs.

For eveyr haiku you write Xenu kills a little pupper.

[blues]

For eveyr haiku you write Xenu kills a little pupper.

Pups aren't taking this lying down. (https://www.google.com/search?q=haiku+dog&rlz=1CAACAG_enUS581US581&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj129331L3TAhWE4yYKHWrjAI4Q_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=670#imgrc=oPduMh090qIAWM:)

[Zincwarrior]

I could go through and 'like' every post by LittleLebowski, but that would get a bit repetitive. RevolverRob summed up pretty much anything I would want to say as well.

I remember when this exact topic came up on another board a few years back; a farmer/rancher out west had a pile of coyotes that caused a stir of emotion. What usually comes out are the people who work with and rely on animals for livelihood and those who view animals solely as companions. A different mindset is required for each point of view and many people can't/won't reconcile this.

The next step in this will be discussing putting down large/wild cats..

My fat wiener dog is very much in support of putting down wild cats. He's informed me that, when they are meowing, they are really insulting your mother, and you should act accordingly.

[Clusterfrack]

I posted this earlier:

Man shoots, kills pit bull attacking his dog outside coffee shop
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/police-man-shoots-pit-bull-attacking-his-dog/324141046

[Zincwarrior]

I posted this earlier:

Man shoots, kills pit bull attacking his dog outside coffee shop
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/police-man-shoots-pit-bull-attacking-his-dog/324141046

I find the other comments in that article far more interesting.

"It's completely ridiculous this guy isn't getting arrested for the fact that he shot a gun in a public place with families walking around," Master said.
Wo.

[RevolverRob]

I posted this earlier:

Man shoots, kills pit bull attacking his dog outside coffee shop
http://www.kgw.com/news/local/police-man-shoots-pit-bull-attacking-his-dog/324141046

My roommate and great friend is from Portland. I love her dearly, but she has some severely wackadoodle sensibilities when it comes to violence and interventions. From what I can tell, it's the norm in people from that area. Folks who are so privileged and unaware to have experienced things in life that might require violence of any sort. Her parents raised her with that hippy-dippy mentality that "Violence is wrong and those who do violence are just uncivilized and need redemption." - She seemed inclined to think that way, until she started doing live animal research. Then she discovered that a 30-pound monkey will rip her face off and her throat out, without provocation and that the only way to control it is, to CONTROL IT WITH FORCE. And since starting down that path about 18-months ago, she has really changed her tune on force, violence, and general understanding of animals being animals.

Two points - 1) Portland is full of hippies and hipsters who think love solves everything, when it doesn't. 2) This reinforces the experience that working with animals changes your perspective on what is and is not "civilized" and what animals (2 and 4 legged ones) are capable of.

[RevolverRob]

The next step in this will be discussing putting down large/wild cats..

It really does depend on the cat. Most large cats just don't go around fucking things up like feral dogs do. Being as they are more ambush/solitary predators. But feral cats are whole other can of worms and like feral dogs, are best put down quickly.

More than once we had issues with feral cats, dogs, coyotes, raccoons, etc where I grew up. For the most part, you probably can dissuade various animal perpetrators without the need to resort to shooting them, but not always. For instance over the years, we never had to shoot many coyotes (two that I can recall), even though they were common in our part of the world. They weren't big enough to harm cows or horses and they usually dared not get too close to the houses. Even if they did, motion detecting lights tended to scare them off. Raccoons on the otherhand? Tough to dissuade those persistent buggers. A shotgun and a chair near the trash barrel was the best bet for taking care of them.

Far, far, and away more frustrating were city folks dumping dogs and cats out in the country. I got some good dogs that way, but it also got a lot of them killed (usually be the Coyotes).

[JCS]

A few weeks back a lady got mauled by two dogs and they killed her. 84 year old widow out walking her dog. The attack was so vicious that they essentially decapitated the woman.

I wondered if it would've been different had it been a younger person or a male.

I love dogs. Me and my wife do not have kids and we are the people who treat our dogs as children.

Having said that I'd have zero problems shooting a dog that tried to attack.

People aren't good pet owners for the most part. I have pit bulls on each side of me. One pit bull is a sweetheart. The owner takes care of it and walks it all the time. The other one is vicious because it's owner ignores it, keeps it outside 24/7 and never walks it.


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[Clusterfrack]

I find the other comments in that article far more interesting.

Wo.

I've had a bunch of conversations with friends and neighbors about this. I've encountered almost universal surprise when I say that I think the dude is a hero for stopping that dog attack. I've pointed out how those two pit bulls could easily have attacked kids at the toy store or school across the street, and that the guy stopped the threat with a single, well-aimed shot. It's been encouraging that a lot of people have admitted that my points are good ones. At least it got them thinking...

[FOG]

Buddy of mine shot a dog that was chasing his cattle. His neighbors (just moved to the country from the big city) came over to complain about the fate of their beloved dog. They claimed that's why they moved to the country, so their dog could roam. My buddy, in a dead pan tone of voice, exclaimed 'all I can say is you didn't buy enough "country" '.

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[Coyotesfan97]

One hard lesson I learned very early in life- Never run from a dog. Stand your ground. If you shove your arm hard all the way back into a dog's jaws, they can't get enough leverage to bite. I've stopped charging dogs dead in their tracks by telling them in a command voice "No! Bad dog!"


That really depends on the dog. If you do that with a bite trained KNPV Malinois or Dutch Shepherd you're going to have a bad day. They're trained to bite as deep as possibly. The Dutch encourage and train a deep bite. They shove the dogs head into the bite and the dogs know to release and readjust quickly. They might start with a frontal bite but they'll be up to their molars at the end.

I generally can run other dogs off with a loud PFUI (No bad dog shame) and a bright flashlight to their eyes. American dogs have no clue what PFUI means but they know the stern harsh command means NO.

[Coyotesfan97]

I've watched an experienced cop who was in animal control hold off a dog with an extended ASP and his voice.

[critter]

Statistically speaking, I more apt to shoot the parents of a screaming air raid siren in a restaurant than either a criminal or an attacking dog. I wouldn't hesitate to fully aerate either of the latter two if circumstance dictated. Unfortunately, I haven't been quite able to get beyond the hesitation phase on the former. I'm am working on it though.

[Zincwarrior]

I've had a bunch of conversations with friends and neighbors about this. I've encountered almost universal surprise when I say that I think the dude is a hero for stopping that dog attack. I've pointed out how those two pit bulls could easily have attacked kids at the toy store or school across the street, and that the guy stopped the threat with a single, well-aimed shot. It's been encouraging that a lot of people have admitted that my points are good ones. At least it got them thinking...

One pit bull killed a toddler here in the last 72 hours. I had American Staffardshire, raised like a bird dog (because we're bird dog kind of people) and he was great, BUT once he walked into the bathroom and the door swung closed behind him. Before I could get up to let him out he had CRUSHED the brass door knob with his teeth. PLus the ones that get out are inevitably badly trained.

[hufnagel]

It is an unfortunate circumstance to do this but it is most definitely a modern day issue. 50 years ago this wasn't even up for conversation.


Because people think dogs are people.

"The older I get, the more I find out how much I hate people in general" seems to be a refrain i'm hearing more often. Perhaps there's a deeper underlying problem of, human interaction is becoming less desirable as their companionship is filled with far more strife and difficulty, whereas a dog (and to large extent many other pets) are far more satisfying and less difficult as long term companions. This causes people to place the emotional value and bond with their pets near the same level as it was with people. We as a species bear now the weight of that sin.

[MistWolf]

That really depends on the dog. If you do that with a bite trained KNPV Malinois or Dutch Shepherd you're going to have a bad day. They're trained to bite as deep as possibly. The Dutch encourage and train a deep bite. They shove the dogs head into the bite and the dogs know to release and re bite quickly.

I generally can run other dogs off with a loud PFUI (No bad dog shame) and a bright flashlight to their eyes. American dogs have no clue what PFUI means but they no the stern harsh command means NO.

I got bit in the face by a mean GSD when I was three or four and I've never forgotten that. I wrestled with several dogs larger than me during my childhood and learned a few tricks because I decided I would never again let any dog get the better of me. I found they couldn't bite me if I shoved my arm into the back of their jaws.

I was attacked a strange dog on a couple of different occasions. Each time, the dog was on me before I could stop them, so I shoved my arm into their jaws and kept pushing them back. One dog, I wrapped my other arm around his head to keep him from backing up for another bite. My arm got scratched up, but the dog didn't have the leverage for a bite. Of course, those dogs were not trained.

I'm not saying the arm trick will work every time, but it worked well when I needed it. It's just another tool in the toolbox, not the whole tool box. I'm not too worried about trained dogs because they are usually kept under strict control by their handlers and I don't engage in criminal behavior

[blues]

"The older I get, the more I find out how much I hate people in general" seems to be a refrain i'm hearing more often. Perhaps there's a deeper underlying problem of, human interaction is becoming less desirable as their companionship is filled with far more strife and difficulty, whereas a dog (and to large extent many other pets) are far more satisfying and less difficult as long term companions. This causes people to place the emotional value and bond with their pets near the same level as it was with people. We as a species bear now the weight of that sin.

Hence the popularity of forums and social media. You can get as much of people as you need or want and then shut it off when you've had your fill. Easy peasy.

[Peally]

Bear the weight? Hell, that's a load off my shoulders not having to deal with people as much.

[hufnagel]

Hence the popularity of forums and social media. You can get as much of people as you need or want and then shut it off when you've had your fill. Easy peasy.

Indeed. I feel sometimes that is a condemnation of our societies. We have become so colorful as to be toxic. A muting of our actions and attitudes might prove dividends for our future.

[NEPAKevin]

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.



With the admission that I get OCD about "war gaming" scenarios and having been in very similar situations, this one has been running permutations through my subconscious since reading it this morning.
Then this pops into my head:
Kids "we wanna pet da dog, we wanna pet da dog..."
Asshole Parent "hey dickhead, let my kids pet your mutt..."
Response to the Asshole Family " Would consider accommodate you guys, but you see, he's in THIS HUMPING STAGE. Know what I mean. But if you think its a good idea... "

http://img-aws.ehowcdn.com/600x600p/photos.demandstudios.com/getty/article/163/117/71042471.jpg

[blues]

Indeed. I feel sometimes that is a condemnation of our societies. We have become so colorful as to be toxic. A muting of our actions and attitudes might prove dividends for our future.

If by "colorful" you mean that pretty much "anything goes" and there are no longer standards by which to judge behavior and hold folks responsible to respect and follow...then yep, we are pretty much in agreement.

People seem to think they're "old school" when they regurgitate something they picked up on TV within the past six months. :rolleyes:

[drjaydvm]

I was reminded recently how many folks don't understand dogs or have any clue about their behavior. A few weeks ago a neighbors shepherd puppy got out of the fence and was running around the street having a great old time enjoying her taste of freedom. A guy up the street called animal control to report a vicious dog trying to attack his kids. Some of the other neighborhood kids came and got me to help catch the dog. It was instantly obvious it was a puppy playing around. A whistle and a clap and she was obediently sitting at my feet. Police officer showed up- it was apparent to him there was nothing worth reporting, and allowed me to walk the dog home as we had figured out who owned her. The guy who called animal control is not the manliest of men, and doesn't have any pets.

[Peally]

I have had people run up to my dog in my truck and try to pet him. GSD sitting in a clearly private vehicle on private land with the back closed up, me getting ready to head out. It ends with me telling people to get the fuck out of there.


People are retarded sacks of shit, Darwin hasn't weeded enough stupidity out over the last few decades.


This is now a human hate thread :D

[BillSWPA]

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

Agree re: the stupidity of people. Re;orting a leashed dog that has made no attempt to bite - or even rise from a sitting position - as a "vicious" dog would strike me as making a false report, which is a crime. Still, good move leaving and avoiding the problem of who is more beilevable.

[Peally]

Unfortunately false reports can not be answered with a firm crack of a club anymore.

[hufnagel]

The more I read this thread, the more I hate people in general (the moronic ones that want to call the cops on a dog for no good reason.)

[WobblyPossum]

I generally like dogs more than people. A lot more. But a predator is a predator. I don't care if it has two legs or four. If it's a danger to me or those I care about, I'll put it down.


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[MistWolf]

I love dogs (and cats as well, for that matter) but I still love people more

[Peally]

I love and hate both dogs and people. Many dogs live's are below people's value and vice versa. Difference is usually the dog that's dangerous is following nature versus being given a choice and deciding to be a shitstain anyway.

I get the sentiment but I sure as shit do not value many people's lives over my dog's. If Stalin was hanging around and my dog bit him I'd be half inclined to shoot the guy and finish the job :D

[Erik]

If Stalin is hanging around, make sure you shoot him in the head...

[MistWolf]

I agree. Dogs don't choose to be evil. They simply follow their instincts and their nature.

On the other hand, when people are evil, they are evil by choice

[Peally]

If Stalin is hanging around, make sure you shoot him in the head...

Depends on how quickly I can get away with it. Lot of variables to assassinating Stalin.

[NH Shooter]

Home from work, many great responses!

A few rambling comments before I'm done for the day;

If me or anyone in my family is getting mauled by a dog - any dog - the attack must be terminated with any any means available. No debate about that.

I find the practice of having to put down an otherwise well mannered dog due to a nip brought on by a "kiddie assault" from poorly supervised/educated kids reprehensible, and fuels my intense dislike of such people.

If everyone showed respect and courtesy for others our society would be a better place. But this is a rapidly disappearing virtue and makes me truly appreciate the unconditional trust and affection of my dogs all the more.

In many places a license is required to own a dog, but any dimwit can produce as many offspring as they want - no license or training required.

The destruction of traditional values (courtesy and respect for others, taking responsibility for one's own welfare, contributing to society, etc.) will be our downfall.

The processes of natural selection in the human species has been replaced with protectionism of those who contribute nothing to society. It seems to me this segment of the population grows larger (and more protected) every year.

I gave up Facebook and don't miss it at all.

Based on the previous comments I suspect we're all pretty much on the same page.

Great discussion, thanks for contributing. Good night.

[Leroy Suggs]

The Great Society coming to fruition.

[HCM]

Random thoughts:

In general, put me in the Dogs > People Camp. I wont hesitate to shoot an attacking dog, but I "speak dog" and have a fair handle on attack vs posture. I can understand regular people who don't know dogs confusing the two. LEOs should have some knowledge of dog interaction and should be able to handle most dogs via "Officer Presence", a trait unfortunately, many officers lack with people or dogs. Pepper spray and Tasers work on dogs too.

Speaking of dog behavior, there is a difference between a nip and bite. Adult dogs dealing with puppies getting "up in their grill" will nip them. Herding breeds also nip livestock to move them and will sometimes try to "herd" people.

Some definitions:

snap: the dog bites the air but never touches you.

nip: the dog's teeth contact your body (or that of another animal), leaving a small scratch that may bleed a little but doesn't require stitches and heals without a scar.

bite: the dog's teeth break your skin (or that of another animal), leaving a wound that bleeds enough to need a bandage, possibly stitches and medical attention.

Some dogs are simply not quite right in the head like some people. Some dogs can be "made" mean (most can be re-socialized but that is another discussion).

A Good primer on Mouthing, which is also normal dog behavior, and how to discourage it: https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-care/common-dog-behavior-issues/mouthing-nipping-and-play-biting-adult-dogs

Dogs may get loose sometimes despite the best efforts of the owner, this is not the same as intentionally letting dogs roam, a common practice in certain neighborhoods in my city.

The only dog shooting I've been involved with was actually an intentional ADW / Peace Officer. We were arresting a suspect at a family owned business on a state warrant for sexual assault of a child under 14. Suspect had a prior conviction for the same offense. Suspect's 18 year old son intentionally released two Rottweiler's on us. Had to be done but one could make a compelling argument we shot the wrong animal. DA declined ADW charges on the son.

One of my old partners had a similar situation: Mother released two Rottweiler's on officers arresting her adult, gang member son. Dogs shot, DA declined ADW charges. My baby din't do nuth'in......

[M2CattleCo]

Bad dogs are bad. Not all dogs are bad.

Wild dogs are something most people don't have any exposure to and they're different critters than a neighborhood dog off his chain running loose being Alpha dog. They get into packs and they are extremely dangerous. Mostly to livestock, but anything else too.

[HCM]

Bad dogs are bad. Not all dogs are bad.

Wild dogs are something most people don't have any exposure to and they're different critters than a neighborhood dog off his chain running loose being Alpha dog. They get into packs and they are extremely dangerous. Mostly to livestock, but anything else too.

Truth.

[voodoo_man]

Bad dogs are bad. Not all dogs are bad.

Wild dogs are something most people don't have any exposure to and they're different critters than a neighborhood dog off his chain running loose being Alpha dog. They get into packs and they are extremely dangerous. Mostly to livestock, but anything else too.

True story...

Many years ago I was travelling north from Greece in the southernmost part of Albania and my group stopped at a nice restaurant in the countryside. On our way out to the car which was parked across the street, we realized that there were seven to ten wild dogs about 100 meters from us roaming around. We were able to get to the car quickly enough before any of them began to take notice of us. I could only imagine what kind of shitshow that would have been if we did not have a vehicle.

[Caballoflaco]

Bad dogs are bad. Not all dogs are bad.

Wild dogs are something most people don't have any exposure to and they're different critters than a neighborhood dog off his chain running loose being Alpha dog. They get into packs and they are extremely dangerous. Mostly to livestock, but anything else too.

I was actively hunted by a pack of semi-feral if not full blown feral dogs while bow hunting when I was 18.

I was slowly making my way down a shallow "holler" at the time, about a third of the way between the ridge line and the creek bed at the bottom. It was early autumn and there was still a decent amount of foliage that limited my visibility.

I began to hear movement at the bottom of the holler near the creek bed. I got an arrow out of my quiver and tried to get set up for a possible shot as quietly as possible because what sounded like deer were heading in my direction.

Then I got that feeling, the one that tells you to turn around most riki-tik because something bad is about to happen. As soon as I turned around a 60-70 pound mutt that had quietly stalked to within about 10 yards of me turned tail and hauled ass. I turned back around in time to see three other dogs break from their cover and start heading up the hill towards me. As soon as I made eye contact and drew my bow they halted briefly and took off running too. The woods were too dense for me to get a shot worth taking so I let them go.

They had played the damn velociraptor game, where several moved around noisily, while another one stalked me quietly from behind. I will say it was a rather special feeling, especially since I don't live in an area where you regularly run into animals that see humans as prey.

And to the OP, when I got back my uncles told me I should have killed them, and if I'd had a firearm with me I would have. Or as many as I could. Only having a long bow and knife limited my options in that situation.

Then there was the time I was attacked by a pack of a dozen whippets while on a run at night, but that was more surreal than scary.

[GuanoLoco]

A friend and I ran a small pack off the railroad tracks one day. They left behind a fresh severed woodchuck head. Lunch I guess.

[NH Shooter]

Random thoughts:



HCM, good thoughts!

Understanding canine behavior isn't hard to learn yet most people are clueless. That is what I like about the stopthe77.com website - it shows the basics in a way that even a child can understand.

Dogs are a lot like guns: people buy them and never learn how to responsibly own one, never get professional (dog trainer) help and of course when things don't go their happy way, it's a "bad dog."

Dogs associate with humans at their own risk.

[NH Shooter]

Bad dogs are bad. Not all dogs are bad.

Short of genetic reasons, "bad dogs" (as in intentionally viscous) are usually the product of their environment (bad people).

The average American dog behaves no differently than the current average American adolescent - misbehaved because they were never taught any better.

Yes, a pack of domestic dogs turned wild are extremely dangerous, but many end up this way as victims of human abandonment.

But yet it's the dog that suffers the consequences of human failure, and as a society we fail them on so many levels.

PS - I hope you got things squared away with your sister and her family. It was your family situation I was thinking of in my reference to "unintended consequences."

[fixer]

Truth. The older I grow the less love I have for the general public and their stupidity.

True story;

About 25 years ago we had an all-black GSD named Shadow, who was well trained and socialized. Being 25 years less wise than I am now, I had taken her to the field where our daughter was playing soccer. Lots of people, lots of noise, lots of kids.

I stayed back from the playing area about 100 yards, but could still see our daughter on the field. I was standing with Shadow sitting next to me on a short leash, taking it all in. Out of the corner of my eye I spot two young kids making a high-speed b-line toward me and Shadow, so I take a step forward to get in front of her. Within seconds they were on us. I held up my hand and in a friendly voice asked them to stop, which they did touching distance away. As they're trying to end-run my block and reach for the dog, their father showed up.

"Can my kids pet your dog?" were the first words out of his mouth in a not-so-friendly tone.

"I'd rather not, at least not right now" was my response, figuring he would just gather his roaming kids and move on. Shadow was still in a sit, ears up and completely silent. I could tell she could sense my uneasiness with the situation.

"They can't pet your dog? Are you telling me the dog is viscous?"

I was caught flat-footed by his comment, and before I could respond he states "that's it, I'm calling the police to report a viscous dog." I was confident he was going to do just that so I immediately left the field and took Shadow home.

As a dog owner I learned an important lesson that day, and have never again taken any of our dogs to a public setting where children are left unattended.

As parental responsibility continues its downward spiral, taking even well-trained and well-behaved dogs into such areas is simply not worth the risk. Poorly supervised children get injured, run over, etc. but in accordance with today's victim mentality, it's always someone else's fault.

As with firearms, the value of training can not be over-stated.

WOW. That is truly exceptional retardedness right there.

[fixer]

I moved to W. Texas almost 10 years ago. The oil patch was booming. Overnight there were new trailer parks and RV parks. Everyone brought their 'precious dogs'

Running and jogging became flat out hazardous to life. Seriously. The county was almost hopeless at trying to enforce leash laws. I was averaging 1 'menace' incident every other day and 1 full blown attack by a loner or pack once a week.

It changed my mind about dogs in general and more so about your average dog owner. Both of them for the worse.

After confronting some owners about their dog following me down the street as I jogged (showing some pre-attack cues) with them watching in amusement, they went full thug and followed me and surrounded me using a red dodge charger. It was a super tense situation and was the closest to using deadly force as I've come. My lesson learned was to never confront the dog owners and immediately phone the police.

I've also had dogs that were in kill mode come after me. I'm not afraid to admit that it is a scary experience. When a large dog is coming at you like they do in a dog fight you're only recourse is to protect yourself. I suspect many people who take offense at 'shooting dogs' have never been attacked. When this happened to me on a jog I found a gear I didn't know I had and evasive maneuvers that would baffle any NBA guard.

I've had my own dog surprise me once. A harmless Labrador that was spooked easily at night (as I learned). We were walking across a gas station parking lot at night. The place was unfamiliar to her. Two 10 year old boys ran up behind her and were attempting to pet. She bared her teeth and snapped at them. Totally unexpected.

I've had pit bulls come up to me lay down and beg for a belly rub. As I write this, there is a GSD neighboring me who is the sweetest dog ever and another neighbor with a golden retriever that is flat out mean and nasty. I've seen a cute and furry Australian shepherd take down a pitbull in a random dog fight that broke out in our neighborhood. Breeds don't mean squat.

My take is that if the dog is large enough to cause damage then take precautions. Learn dog body language. Keep a less lethal option handy. Pepper spray is a lot easier to explain than 3 9mm rounds. My personal threshold is 50 lbs.

Dog owners need to realize that their dog is property. They are responsible for it. If you don't want any drama, keep them on a leash. Parent's need to teach kids how to approach dogs and interact with them.

[LittleLebowski]

I've been nipped at by Labs only. I've never personally had a problem with pits, but I've twice seen pits looking for a dog fight and attempting to provoke them; one came at my Malinois and I, the Mal (being a Mal) hit the pit at about Warp 9 speed, the pit was not prepared for that (I'm well aware that the pit has stronger jaws, but ferocity counts), and we withdrew from the dog park. As we left, I saw the pit resume making the rounds, looking for a fight.

[voodoo_man]

I've been nipped at by Labs only. I've never personally had a problem with pits, but I've twice seen pits looking for a dog fight and attempting to provoke them; one came at my Malinois and I, the Mal (being a Mal) hit the pit at about Warp 9 speed, the pit was not prepared for that (I'm well aware that the pit has stronger jaws, but ferocity counts), and we withdrew from the dog park. As we left, I saw the pit resume making the rounds, looking for a fight.

Survived an encounter with the breed of peace?

Lies!

[JCS]

Does anyone have any links on speaking "dog language" or advice on how to deal with aggressive dogs. We are starting to walk our dogs more in the neighborhood now that it's warming up and would like some tips. I always carry pepper spray on top of my handgun and a small flashlight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duelist]

Does anyone have any links on speaking "dog language" or advice on how to deal with aggressive dogs. We are starting to walk our dogs more in the neighborhood now that it's warming up and would like some tips. I always carry pepper spray on top of my handgun and a small flashlight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1-Carry a stick (cane, putter, tool handle, walking pole, etc). I've never had to shoot a dog, but I've been nipped by a GSD while delivering papers as a kid, and not ever since then. I frequently carry, and used to habitually carry, a walking stick. I've used it several times to push a dog away, and to intimidate others - they seem to understand sticks.

2-the ones that will be aggressive also seem to understand rocks. Bending down and picking up a rock gets a lot of dogs to back off. Once in a while, they require the rock to be thrown in an educational way. The last time I had to actually throw a rock was on a persistent dog that didn't take the hint about picking it up, the command to go home or the loud NO, and I wasn't carrying a stick, or pepper spray, or a gun because I was stupid and lazy about it that day. Never again!

3-Bright lights at night work on some dogs, not on others. They work on lots of people.

4-A good swift kick in the ribs or face works on some dogs, too, but I'd rather have the stick to push them away with.

5- for dog language stuff, check out the Dog Whisperer, and those monks that raise GSDs.

[HCM]

I moved to W. Texas almost 10 years ago. The oil patch was booming. Overnight there were new trailer parks and RV parks. Everyone brought their 'precious dogs'

Running and jogging became flat out hazardous to life. Seriously. The county was almost hopeless at trying to enforce leash laws. I was averaging 1 'menace' incident every other day and 1 full blown attack by a loner or pack once a week.

It changed my mind about dogs in general and more so about your average dog owner. Both of them for the worse.

After confronting some owners about their dog following me down the street as I jogged (showing some pre-attack cues) with them watching in amusement, they went full thug and followed me and surrounded me using a red dodge charger. It was a super tense situation and was the closest to using deadly force as I've come. My lesson learned was to never confront the dog owners and immediately phone the police.

I've also had dogs that were in kill mode come after me. I'm not afraid to admit that it is a scary experience. When a large dog is coming at you like they do in a dog fight you're only recourse is to protect yourself. I suspect many people who take offense at 'shooting dogs' have never been attacked. When this happened to me on a jog I found a gear I didn't know I had and evasive maneuvers that would baffle any NBA guard.

I've had my own dog surprise me once. A harmless Labrador that was spooked easily at night (as I learned). We were walking across a gas station parking lot at night. The place was unfamiliar to her. Two 10 year old boys ran up behind her and were attempting to pet. She bared her teeth and snapped at them. Totally unexpected.

I've had pit bulls come up to me lay down and beg for a belly rub. As I write this, there is a GSD neighboring me who is the sweetest dog ever and another neighbor with a golden retriever that is flat out mean and nasty. I've seen a cute and furry Australian shepherd take down a pitbull in a random dog fight that broke out in our neighborhood. Breeds don't mean squat.

My take is that if the dog is large enough to cause damage then take precautions. Learn dog body language. Keep a less lethal option handy. Pepper spray is a lot easier to explain than 3 9mm rounds. My personal threshold is 50 lbs.

Dog owners need to realize that their dog is property. They are responsible for it. If you don't want any drama, keep them on a leash. Parent's need to teach kids how to approach dogs and interact with them.

All of this applies to children as well. Peoples improperly socialized and disciplined children and the shitbags they grow up to be are the reason we have a criminal justice system and lawful self defense.

The parallels between between wild dogs packs and "urban youth" who are often left to raise themselves are not a coincidence.

[GuanoLoco]

Bending over and pretending to pick up a projectile can be effective. We had a sneak-biter at my lake place whose MO was to crouch and circle behind, looking for a free bite. Body language would result in a withdrawal and circling for another go. Pretending to pick up something? Dog apparently understood 'throw' and 'throw at' - and chose to disengage.

I had some smaller/compact but muscular bulldog mix charge my mastiff and I one time while walking. It came out like a cannonball from < 10 yards away at a full speed charge, teeth bared and snapping away on the run. Mastiff and I were caught completely off guard. I spun, faced dog, pointed my finger and barked out "STOP!". Charging dog froze up not a foot from taking off my finger and slunk off.

Mastiff would have killed it for sure, but not before I / we would have taken a bite.

[NickA]

Re: strangers just coming up and petting someone's dog- my niece is in a wheelchair and she has a service dog. Said dog literally has a sign on him that says "Do not pet me, I'm working" and yep, every other yahoo that walks by asks to pet him.
On that note, labradoodles must be some of the most chill dogs ever. She's had 2 and they were both great.

Sent from my XT1095 using Tapatalk

[blues]

Bending over and pretending to pick up a projectile can be effective. We had a sneak-biter at my lake place whose MO was to crouch and circle behind, looking for a free bite. Body language would result in a withdrawal and circling for another go. Pretending to pick up something? Dog apparently understood 'throw' and 'throw at' - and chose to disengage.

I use that method quite a bit around here. (It's easy because we only have gravel roads until we get down to the main road.) Sometimes I'll lob one as well to scatter 'em when there's a couple who normally hang around together. They understand "rocks".

One of the local dogs that I use the rock ploy with has bitten other dogs in the past. When it tried to do the same with my dogs (on more than one occasion over the years) it received a caning from a blackthorn, the other time I whipped it with the chain end of a martingale collar. It whimpered like a bitch as it ran away afterward on each occasion. I hope I'm never forced to do worse.

The owners are actually pretty nice folks and I've talked to them about the issues and they are well aware as the dogs have attacked other dogs in the area. They put electric collars on though they usually forget to keep the batteries charged after a while. Fortunately, it's been a few months since I've had to administer any further lessons in good citizenship to those dogs.

[Mntneer357]

I agree. Dogs don't choose to be evil. They simply follow their instincts and their nature.

On the other hand, when people are evil, they are evil by choice

When I was very, very young, my family moved to CA. We had a Samoyed who we always walked on leash and had a fenced yard. On one walk in a public area, some dick was running with his two Dobermans. Story goes that while Mom was out on said walk with me and our dog, the two not-leashed Dobermans attacked our Samoyed without provocation and then went after my Mom, before the altercation was stopped. Our Samoyed was taken to the Vet for surgery and, thankfully, made a full recovery despite some nasty injuries.

The dick with the Dobermans was, of course, all "they're sweet dogs" and "they've never done that before". (Sound familiar? Kinda like dealers who turn Pits mean as hell in hopes they'll go after Police?) While being questioned by responding officers he admitted he'd "been training them himself at home, you know, for protection". I'm willing to assume he'd done a right shit job of same.

TL;DR = I LOVE dogs. In many cases, I prefer them to the company of people. They're the epitome of loyal and highly predictable. As someone else said, I speak dog pretty well. I firmly believe a dog is the only thing on Earth that loves you more then it loves itself.

However, were I to find myself in a situation similar to the one from my youth, my attitude would definitely be as the warrior poet Raylan Givins once so eloquently said "Call off the dog, before I paint the yard with it."

[Zincwarrior]

I've been nipped at by Labs only. I've never personally had a problem with pits, but I've twice seen pits looking for a dog fight and attempting to provoke them; one came at my Malinois and I, the Mal (being a Mal) hit the pit at about Warp 9 speed, the pit was not prepared for that (I'm well aware that the pit has stronger jaws, but ferocity counts), and we withdrew from the dog park. As we left, I saw the pit resume making the rounds, looking for a fight.

Never heard of a Malinois. Looked it up-cool looking dog.


1-Carry a stick (cane, putter, tool handle, walking pole, etc). I've never had to shoot a dog, but I've been nipped by a GSD while delivering papers as a kid, and not ever since then. I frequently carry, and used to habitually carry, a walking stick. I've used it several times to push a dog away, and to intimidate others - they seem to understand sticks.
How does that work? The last time the mountain dog was attacked by a pit, I brought back a 3 foot stick, but it sits in the kitchen (even I don't know why there) because I don't know how best to use it without bashing the dog's brains in. Any protips on how to do that when the dog is not charging you but your dog?

[Clusterfrack]

Breaking up dogfights is hard when you're trying to avoid getting bitten and not hurt your dog. I've found that OC spray to the butthole makes a dog stop fighting very quickly.

[Tabasco]

Does anyone have any links on speaking "dog language" or advice on how to deal with aggressive dogs. We are starting to walk our dogs more in the neighborhood now that it's warming up and would like some tips. I always carry pepper spray on top of my handgun and a small flashlight.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Someone here recommended air horns, and a guy I work with who rides road bikes (pedal version) said these work as well. I carry one along with OC. Also, OC works on both ends of the dog.

[Zincwarrior]

Breaking up dogfights is hard when you're trying to avoid getting bitten and not hurt your dog. I've found that OC spray to the butthole makes a dog stop fighting very quickly.

Holy pepper spray Batman! That would make me stop! I carry streamer version of spray now (used it on a Husky once).

[blues]

Never heard of a Malinois. Looked it up-cool looking dog.

How does that work? The last time the mountain dog was attacked by a pit, I brought back a 3 foot stick, but it sits in the kitchen (even I don't know why there) because I don't know how best to use it without bashing the dog's brains in. Any protips on how to do that when the dog is not charging you but your dog?

I've poked and prodded dogs, slapped them along the flanks (with as much force as necessary to accomplish the desired result), and of course if it becomes more severe the head, neck and limbs are all potential targets. I hope to never have to jam a blackthorn down a dog's gullet or otherwise ruin the animal. Up to now I haven't.

My Weimaraner dispatched a dog that he thought was a danger to my wife some years back. I called animal control after my wife summoned me to the scene and his assessment was that Smoky did exactly as he was supposed to do when an unaccompanied dog made an unbidden approach to his owner.

[TheNewbie]

The most aggressive dogs I've encountered have been pitbulls. Not all of them are bad, but the breed is a dangerous one. Yet all dogs are animals and should be treated as such. People always come first , and if I can't trust my dog to behave, then I need to get rid of it. So many dolts just buy a dog and then throw it in the back yard chained up. Makes me sick .

HCM is right about kids. No one thinks it's cute when your kid is acting out in public.

[GJM]

A vicious Vizsla is as common as one of those Swedish, Lutheran terrorists.

[blues]

A vicious Vizsla is as common as one of those Swedish, Lutheran terrorists.

We don't see many of those Hungarian pups around here...though I know the local FedEx lady (who should hopefully have my Glock on her truck today) owns one. She was always ogling my Weim as the breeds have many similar characteristics.

[MistWolf]

She's always ogling my Weimer

Put some pants on before answering the door!

[blues]

Put some pants on before answering the door!

Glad I wasn't drinking coffee when I read that! :p

[HCM]

The most aggressive dogs I've encountered have been pitbulls. Not all of them are bad, but the breed is a dangerous one. Yet all dogs are animals and should be treated as such. People always come first , and if I can't trust my dog to behave, then I need to get rid of it. So many dolts just buy a dog and then throw it in the back yard chained up. Makes me sick .

HCM is right about kids. No one thinks it's cute when your kid is acting out in public.

My Father was of the opinion there was little difference between properly raising and socializing children and puppies. The older I get the more I see how right he was.

Pitbulls are only "dangerous" in comparison to other dogs in the sense that they have a stronger bite so if they go bad, they can do a bit more damage.

"Aggressive" pitbulls will normally correspond to an "aggressive" owner and have little to no socialization. There is no "equal" in a dogs world. Unless they are taught all humans are above them (proper socialization), you are either above or below them just like other dogs. Dogs are also masters at reading non verbal communication. As with criminal humans, they will "read' you and interact with accordingly.

[Duelist]

A vicious Vizsla is as common as one of those Swedish, Lutheran terrorists.

Good to know. I've got a French Brittany, and partially made that decision based on the breed's rep for being non-aggressive to dogs and humans, but my spouse is tired of all the shedding and thinks it would be better if Next Dog (tm) either has less hair, or does not shed. I still want to hunt upland game, and the Hungarian dog was on the list last time. Maybe it will move to the top next time.

[GuanoLoco]

Pitties were bred for dog/animal aggression not human aggression - there was a dog AND a human in the ring.

Most dogs are protective of their territory and pack to some degree. The threshold to trigger their protective instincts varies wildly. Cross that boundary and they follow their instincts.

Even our super-sweet 90 lb bulldog (RIP) would draw the line at landscaping crew. She would plunk down and scowl and not a one ever tested her. Good thing, she was all love and bluff but looked junkyard dog impressive.

My mastiff? No one is ever inclined to test him. But all you need to do is break eye contact and walk away - his mission is accomplished

Short of actively defending me, the sound of a gunshot would also likely change his channel. Funny because he's heard 10's of thousands of gunshots. My point is that in some cases a deliberate "miss" might be enough to resolve an aggressive dog situation without bloodshed.

This is what he does. Side by side or back to me and watches, ever-ready to fend off the goblins.

15962

[GJM]

People look like their dogs. :)

[MistWolf]

People look like their dogs. :)

That's why I don't have a dog. I hate to see poor animals suffer

[Peally]

People look like their dogs. :)

I'm adorable and have heavy mental retardation?

Sounds about right.

[LittleLebowski]

Never heard of a Malinois. Looked it up-cool looking dog.


They have a bit of energy on the attack.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi5FVs63Jo

[Mr_White]

I'm adorable and have heavy mental retardation?

Sounds about right.

Heavy metal is no joke

[Peally]

Heavy metal is no joke

http://montrealfilmjournal.com/img/picb/R0001063.jpg

[Coyotesfan97]

I Am Malinois

https://youtu.be/SNSaUq_NwJk

[RevolverRob]

People look like their dogs. :)

You didn't have to actually point out that I look like a Dachshund.

[Zincwarrior]

You didn't have to actually point out that I look like a Dachshund.

Evidently I look like a FAT dachshund.

[hufnagel]

I look like my cats.

[TheCarl]

They have a bit of energy on the attack.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi5FVs63Jo

"Passion explosif," indeed.

[GuanoLoco]

Some of us can only wish to be as good looking and photogenic as our dogs.

15991

[RJ]

People look like their dogs. :)

I generally shave a bit more than she does, but yeah pretty much.

[GJM]

In Texas, I hear even the cats are braver:

http://www.click2houston.com/news/cat-stares-down-rattlesnake-in-south-texas-town

[GJM]

Some of us can only wish to be as good looking and photogenic as our dogs.

15991

If your dog was a brown bear, I would judge him a smaller one, using the rule of thumb that a really big bear looks like he has a small head.

[peterb]

Speaking of dog behavior, there is a difference between a nip and bite. Adult dogs dealing with puppies getting "up in their grill" will nip them. Herding breeds also nip livestock to move them and will sometimes try to "herd" people.

I was at a sheepherding demonstration where a young border collied was roughed up and sent running by an older, experienced ewe. The shepherd did a great job explaining to the audience why this was dangerous for everyone involved, and then sent in his best dog to restablish authority. A quick lunge and nip -- nothing personal, just business -- and order was restored.

[Shootur44]

I don't know where everyone else live but I am in north Louisiana in Caddo Parish and there is a Leash Law on the books but it's not endorsed and that grips my behind. I have always had dogs and keep mine either inside or behind a fence and always have them on leash when walking them. But these A- Holes around me wait til dark and let theirs loose and they roam the Neighborhood and I walk out to step in a nice big pile of someone else's dog shit and find my wheels pissed on and even had stretched on bed of truck where they tried to get in bed of it.
I am a firm believer of the leash law as long as you can have it enforced.
I have called the pound and gave them a detail description and location of a dog and sat in a chair and watched them drive by at 50-60mph and called back in to tell them they passed the Address and the dispatcher told me that they had looked for the dog and was not there and gone on to another call and couldn't come back.
They never checked as they went by and didn't want to pick that dog up cause they knew who it belonged to by description, I found out later.
So it doesn't work unless they will enforce it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NH Shooter]

So now for a slightly different spin on this thread...


Because people think dogs are people.

OK, I admit guilty as charged!

Our current canine family members are both rescue mutts from South Carolina.

Gracie Rose was born under a shed to a stray, her litter scooped up by a local humane society. The litter made the trip north to NH where we adopted her at 20 weeks old. She is obviously a houndy-mutt and was extremely submissive, to the point that if I even walked in her direction she would roll over and pee on herself. With lots of patience, training and socialization she has matured into a dog that in my eyes is beautiful beyond words. She is now a confident dog who lives a very spoiled life: she is fed home made food, is allowed on the furniture and sleeps on my bed. I'm not ashamed to admit I love her as much as my human family members. She is now going on four years old and weighs 45 pounds;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/gracie-1.jpg
Gracie Rose the night we brought her home.


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/gracie-2.jpg
Gracie Rose a grown-up houndy mutt! Her fur is an amazing copper color in the sun.


Maddie Lou joined us a year later when she was 16 weeks old and is some sort of Fiest mix. She is also from SC but was better socialized when she was a puppy as she was from a litter of someone's pet. Like her big sister Gracie Rose, she is spoiled rotten and loved dearly. She is now just over three years old and weighs 35 pounds;

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/maddie-1.jpg
Maddie Lou a few weeks after we brought her home.


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/maddie-2.jpg
Maddie Lou grown up, keeping an eye on some squirrels.


Both Gracie and Maddie are indoor dogs and only go outdoors fully supervised. Yeah, my wife and I are a couple of old empty-nesters who love and spoil the crap out of our dogs!

[M2CattleCo]

A dog trainer I know told me that dogs think people are dogs. He said that was something that needed to be understood if you were going to successfully raise/own dogs like pits, dobermans, rotweillers.

I don't understand that. They either want to lick or bite.

[GJM]

I am liking the turn this thread has taken.

15999

16000

[GJM]

Tom, why do my photos load sideways?

[Rex G]

I got my GSD second-hand, at about 18 or 19 weeks old. The previous family's toddler was allergic to her. She still loves to greet small children, and thinks small children can do no wrong, which is a good thing, because I have a new infant grandson. I will not leave her alone with my grandson, yet, because I would not want her to try to carry him like a momma dog carries a pup; not saying she would try, but best to be sure. One time, she shoved me away from the street, when she saw and heard a large truck approaching, a bit near the curb, so moving her humans to a safer location is something she would presumably do, if she felt it necessary.

From the first day I got my GSD, and started walking her, when I would stop and stand, she would turn around and watch my six, either at my left side, or by turning around and scooting between my feet. Yes, at 19 weeks of age, she was already protective.

[GuanoLoco]

If your dog was a brown bear, I would judge him a smaller one, using the rule of thumb that a really big bear looks like he has a small head.

He wanted to know whether his head made his ass look big or whether his ass made his head look big.

[drjaydvm]

I probably interact with about 1000 dogs a year. The number really well trained dogs I see I could count on one hand. I'm guilty like everyone else. We have 6 dogs, and although they listen to me most of the time, they are not what I would call trained. I keep telling my wife the next one will be a puppy, and I'm going to do it right. One of my dogs comes with me to work, and is very chill, greats people and other dogs with no drama, but still runs off on occasion to investigate a dumpster or group of college kids at the housing annex next door.

[GJM]

He wanted to know whether his head made his ass look big or whether his ass made his head look big.

Yes!

[Ed L]

Some of us can only wish to be as good looking and photogenic as our dogs.

15991

Very good looking dog. What breed is that?

[GuanoLoco]

Very good looking dog. What breed is that?

Perro de Presa Canario, Red Fawn (most are brindled). And no, for 99.99% of the people in the world, I heartily *do not* recommend them. You need to right kind of owner and the right kind of environment.

That said, I love my boy and he's a great dog - for me and my pack - basically family and other pets. Everyone else? Not so much. He is very slow to accept others and best practice is physical separation no matter how much someone thinks they are 'good with dogs'. But once you are accepted you are golden, even with years of separation.

16003

A rare bit of sharing. This kitty is part of the pack and gets defended as well. Best to get out of the way when he charges in to break up a cat vs. cat/possum/coon/armadillo fight though. She's come back after such encounters dripping with mastiff slobber - but not dead.

[Ed L]

I am familiar with the breed.

He is a very good looking example of of the breed.

[MistWolf]

I've found that OC spray to the butthole makes a dog stop fighting very quickly.


He wanted to know whether his head made his ass look big or whether his ass made his head look big.

The way you guys talk about some dog owners is shameful. Very shameful!

[LittleLebowski]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101314_zpsece2226c.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/baxshep/media/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101314_zpsece2226c.jpg.html)

[GuanoLoco]

I am familiar with the breed.

He is a very good looking example of of the breed.

Head is great and temperament is true to breed. Appearance wise he tends to throw more Dane with a bird vs. bully chest.

He's starting to get older (> 8) and large breeds don't usually age gracefully.

[AMC]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101314_zpsece2226c.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/baxshep/media/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101314_zpsece2226c.jpg.html)

That's a good looking Mal. Guanolocos Presa is a handsome boy, too....Though those dogs scare the crap out of me. I saw first hand what they can do to a person....Who did not survive the attack. It was a national news story full of crazy people and salacious details....But I won't forget what that dog did to that woman. On another note....The title of this thread is vastly depressing. I can't think of anything I'd rather shoot less than a dog. That said.....Though I love my girl dearly, I agree with Littlebowski. She bites a child, I'd shoot her. She's my best dog......But she's a dog.

[NH Shooter]

Some great looking dogs!

After our black GSD Shadow died, it took eight years of gentle prodding from my wife to get me to start thinking about having a dog again. Then we found photos on the website of a rescue here in NH and I was won over. Adopting a couple of rescues who would have been otherwise euthanized at a high-kill southern shelter has been one of the best decisions we ever made.

In the world of dog rescue they say the dogs know they have been rescued. They also say that it's sometimes difficult to discern who rescued who. I can attest that both of these statements are true. Earning the utter, 100% trust of this dog and watching her blossom has been one of the most rewarding endeavors of my life.

A few more of the photogenic Gracie Rose, who has made this miserable old SOB open his heart in ways I never realized I could do;


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/gracie-3.jpg


http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/gracie-4.jpg

[fixer]

1-Carry a stick (cane, putter, tool handle, walking pole, etc). I've never had to shoot a dog, but I've been nipped by a GSD while delivering papers as a kid, and not ever since then. I frequently carry, and used to habitually carry, a walking stick. I've used it several times to push a dog away, and to intimidate others - they seem to understand sticks.

2-the ones that will be aggressive also seem to understand rocks. Bending down and picking up a rock gets a lot of dogs to back off. Once in a while, they require the rock to be thrown in an educational way. The last time I had to actually throw a rock was on a persistent dog that didn't take the hint about picking it up, the command to go home or the loud NO, and I wasn't carrying a stick, or pepper spray, or a gun because I was stupid and lazy about it that day. Never again!

3-Bright lights at night work on some dogs, not on others. They work on lots of people.

4-A good swift kick in the ribs or face works on some dogs, too, but I'd rather have the stick to push them away with.

5- for dog language stuff, check out the Dog Whisperer, and those monks that raise GSDs.

In my experience, going to a stick or kicking and otherwise going hand to hand with a dog, escalates the situation in a direction you really, really don't want. I used to attempt the same tactics and about 50% of the time it made the dog go straight effing nuclear.

I had a stray pit fly across a field at myself and my lab one day. It instantly started attacking my lab. I could see fur and teeth. I grabbed a large stick nearby and beat on this dog until I was out of breath. Then it just turned on me. I wailed. I kicked. I yelled for help. My lab somehow got its attention and I got a prime opportunity to kick it in the stomach with everything I had and the blow stunned the dog. The owner came out and apologized. This was the hardest way to deal with a dog. My labs neck skin is so thick it healed up in a week and she never had any pain.

my big toe was bruised and still hurts in some instances.

In my experience if a loose dog or pack doesn't respond to a firm yell or your body language, and its staring you down you are about 10 seconds from having to deal with a chainsaw with fur. Throwing a stick or worse your own body parts into the mix will make the situation go nuclear.

Just my experience.

[LittleLebowski]

I love dogs and will always have one, but given my Wyoming cattle ranch upbringing, was always a little calloused compared to most on them. Having kids has only exacerbated that. I've had to shoot dogs and I've had to shoot horses. The latter was worse for me.

[Hambo]

I don't know if God created a more awful animal than the horse. The only thing horses have over ATVs is that you can eat the horse if it comes down to that.

[LittleLebowski]

That's a good looking Mal.

An adoptee off of Craigslist, I was his third and last owner (he had to be put down due to something in his gut). To say that I was shocked when he killed this young doe and drug her up to my daughter and I like a lion with its kill is an understatement.

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h251/baxshep/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101432_zpse712e23a.jpg (http://s66.photobucket.com/user/baxshep/media/Dogs/IMG_20121111_101432_zpse712e23a.jpg.html)

[LittleLebowski]

I don't know if God created a more awful animal than the horse. The only thing horses have over ATVs is that you can eat the horse if it comes down to that.

You just didn't ride the right horses :D A good quarter horse beats an ATV hands down in rough terrain.

[JHC]

I miss this old boy. He was glorious in his prime and the most home protective of any of our six boxers. He's my favorite. As he aged, a couple/few years before this pic taken on his last day with us, he snarled and lunged at an friend of my sons when he got up to leave.

I flew off the couch, hurdled the coffee table and snatched him up to his back legs, while primal screaming and shaken-baby syndroming the hell out of him as I dragged him standing to the back door and flung him out. He never repeated his old crankiness. It was the first and last episode like that in his dozen years. I loved him deep. But he was too big for biting (80 lbs solid in his prime) and if he'd turned into a biter I'd long decided he was gone in 60 seconds.

Miss him still.

16011

[LittleLebowski]

I miss this old boy. He was glorious in his prime and the most home protective of any of our six boxers. He's my favorite. As he aged, a couple/few years before this pic taken on his last day with us, he snarled and lunged at an friend of my sons when he got up to leave.

I flew off the couch, hurdled the coffee table and snatched him up to his back legs, while primal screaming and shaken-baby syndroming the hell out of him as I dragged him standing to the back door and flung him out. He never repeated his old crankiness. It was the first and last episode like that in his dozen years. I loved him deep. But he was too big for biting (80 lbs solid in his prime) and if he'd turned into a biter I'd long decided he was gone in 60 seconds.

Miss him still.

16011

I support your actions.

[JHC]

Buster, in his prime. 16012

[RJ]

Hope the dog pictures and stories continue. I like dogs better than most people I come across.

Only had one problem dog in my life. Gromit was a shelter rescue Jack Russell terrier.

He had had Perthe's disease I think it was called; with necrosis of his hip, so he ran on three legs. In addition, he also came with Addison's disease so we had to give him steroids to treat that.

He was normally fairly benign (for a Jack Russell: which of course is like rolling a grenade around the floor hoping the pin does not come out).

I'm pretty sure he understood English; as there were may be 30 words or combinations he'd react to. I took to spelling things out; but he soon figured out that "go for a W" meant walkies lol.

He'd sit and wait on the coach for the Postman to cycle by with his bag (this was in the UK). You had to immediately intercept the Post before it hit the floor in front of the mail slot or he would go savage it to pieces.

I still miss him.


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[blues]

Good to see the dog love.

Going on four years ago that I had to put that beloved boy in my avatar down. He passed in my arms and I've never fully recovered from the loss.

If there's a God and dreams come true I hope we'll be reunited again.

On a less somber note, the little 60# gal in my profile picture keeps us on our toes...and every living thing in the area as well.

Like Joe and Bax, I'm a pretty stern disciplinarian when it comes to my dogs...but I love 'em hard as well.

[Jim Watson]

I have commented, not entirely in jest, that in outlying areas here; if you shoot a mean dog, you might have to shoot the mean owner.
Heard from one such: "That Smiff guy kicked my dog. I was riding by his place that night and was going to shoot through his house, but Joe said not to, he might have his woman and kids in there."

[blues]

I have commented, not entirely in jest, that in outlying areas here; if you shoot a mean dog, you might have to shoot the mean owner.
Heard from one such: "That Smiff guy kicked my dog. I was riding by his place that night and was going to shoot through his house, but Joe said not to, he might have his woman and kids in there."

Around here, that would be one of my first concerns.

[Zincwarrior]

I have commented, not entirely in jest, that in outlying areas here; if you shoot a mean dog, you might have to shoot the mean owner.
Heard from one such: "That Smiff guy kicked my dog. I was riding by his place that night and was going to shoot through his house, but Joe said not to, he might have his woman and kids in there."

I would assume there's a very good chance of that actually.

[peterb]

If there's a God and dreams come true I hope we'll be reunited again.

Heaven is where you get all your dogs back, healthy -- and they all get along.

[Clusterfrack]

I don't know if God created a more awful animal than the horse. The only thing horses have over ATVs is that you can eat the horse if it comes down to that.

Camels. Way worse than horses. No comparison. They taste ok in a burger though.

[blues]

Camels. Way worse than horses. No comparison. They taste ok in a burger though.

Especially on Wednesdays.

[NEPAKevin]

A couple people have mentioned that this is not a new topic. The legend of brave Gelert
(http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofWales/The-legend-of-brave-Gelert/)

Presented as a historical note and not a commentary on anyone's belief system.

[Trukinjp13]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/4c9294179a77e4342a2924a116e28d1b.jpg

Both are rescue pups. One female, one male. This was us in the backwoods walking. They love not being on the leash. Could not ask for better dogs. A hell of a lot more loyal and trustworthy then any human I know. Someone hurts my dogs they will wish I shot them. The thought of having to shoot them makes me sick. I trust them and feel that if they bit someone they deserved. But if by some crazy chance something happened. I would have them put down the right way. They deserve better than a bullet. I carry on our walks because of the coyotes back there. They would be our wild dog encounters. But usually they are smart enough to stay away.


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[Zincwarrior]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/4c9294179a77e4342a2924a116e28d1b.jpg

Both are rescue pups. One female, one male. This was us in the backwoods walking. They love not being on the leash. Could not ask for better dogs. A hell of a lot more loyal and trustworthy then any human I know. Someone hurts my dogs they will wish I shot them. The thought of having to shoot them makes me sick. I trust them and feel that if they bit someone they deserved. But if by some crazy chance something happened. I would have them put down the right way. They deserve better than a bullet. I carry on our walks because of the coyotes back there. They would be our wild dog encounters. But usually they are smart enough to stay away.


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What happens if your dogs are on the loose, as you admit and they come upon another dog? The times I've drawn:
*Pit bulls loose running up to my wiener dogs aggressively.
*Pit bull attacking my mountain dog and one of said wiener dogs.
*Pit bulls effectively ambushing me and mountain dog when getting out of my car,
*Someone disparaged the greatness of TexMex. :)

Noticing a trend? What do you do if your dogs run up on another dog and that owner shoots your pit bulls?

[GuanoLoco]

What happens if your dogs are on the loose, as you admit and they come upon another dog? The times I've drawn:
*Pit bulls loose running up to my wiener dogs aggressively.
*Pit bull attacking my mountain dog and one of said wiener dogs.
*Pit bulls effectively ambushing me and mountain dog when getting out of my car,
*Someone disparaged the greatness of TexMex. :)

Noticing a trend? What do you do if your dogs run up on another dog and that owner shoots your pit bulls?

I feel the same way about someone hurting my dog, but what happens when an off-leash dog approaches and engages my leashed mastiff? Of comes all the way on to my somewhat isolated property and encounters an unleashed mastiff?

What's about to happen? Pretty much every time ... a choke-slam and impressive dominance display coming in T-3, 2, 1, .... No need to shoot the other dog, not gonna shoot my own over a dog fight.

Yup, EVERYONE is going to be unhappy.

In particular this pisses me off when they are on a woods trail I cut whose entrance crosses MY property.

Manage your dogs.

[Trukinjp13]

What happens if your dogs are on the loose, as you admit and they come upon another dog? The times I've drawn:
*Pit bulls loose running up to my wiener dogs aggressively.
*Pit bull attacking my mountain dog and one of said wiener dogs.
*Pit bulls effectively ambushing me and mountain dog when getting out of my car,
*Someone disparaged the greatness of TexMex. :)

Noticing a trend? What do you do if your dogs run up on another dog and that owner shoots your pit bulls?

I see one trend you blanketing my dogs into your own problems. Yeah I admit the go fee. When in the BACKWOODS. Which goes miles and miles without any assholes to see. My dogs are very well socialized and would never go up to someone or someones dogs when off leash. They stay within a certain distance at all times. If we come across someone or something they go back on leash.

Not because I am worried about my dogs though. Because I am worried about others. They never growl or bark at other dogs when we are in public. They only watch the surroundings. My dogs do not care what kind of dog they see. Danes or weiners. The only thing they care about is someone else to play with. I do not live in the city. Never have never will. Where I was raised all the pups in the area know each other and see each other. My dogs love to play with both of my neighbors gsd dogs.

It is not a dogs fault that humans are assholes and can not properly train there dogs or there own kids. I understand that bad shit happens and sometimes deserved. But I know my dogs and I know how they behave around others. So if I am walking with them and some dude freaks out because there are scary pitbulls in his vicinity and he shoots one of them. He better fucking kill me before I get hands on him.

[Zincwarrior]

I see one trend you blanketing my dogs into your own problems. Yeah I admit the go fee. When in the BACKWOODS. Which goes miles and miles without any assholes to see. My dogs are very well socialized and would never go up to someone or someones dogs when off leash. They stay within a certain distance at all times. If we come across someone or something they go back on leash.

Not because I am worried about my dogs though. Because I am worried about others. They never growl or bark at other dogs when we are in public. They only watch the surroundings. My dogs do not care what kind of dog they see. Danes or weiners. The only thing they care about is someone else to play with. I do not live in the city. Never have never will. Where I was raised all the pups in the area know each other and see each other. My dogs love to play with both of my neighbors gsd dogs.

It is not a dogs fault that humans are assholes and can not properly train there dogs or there own kids. I understand that bad shit happens and sometimes deserved. But I know my dogs and I know how they behave around others. So if I am walking with them and some dude freaks out because there are scary pitbulls in his vicinity and he shoots one of them. He better fucking kill me before I get hands on him.

He probably would because I believe you're arguing attempted murder. In most states if someone attacks them they have the right to lethal self defense. I cant think of a jury outside of the West Coast that would not support a self defense claim in the fact pattern. I know in your fact pattern if I am walking my dogs and two pits come up in an aggressive fashion I will draw. If they aren't I wouldn't have to. If your dogs are a sufficient threat to my mountain dog they are more then a threat to me. If you appear and come to "try to get my hands on him" I'll empty the mag before you're within 15 yards of me because you are presenting a lethal threat to a person of my physical capabilities and age.

Frankly your response seems really hostile to a simple question and I am not sure why. You probably could have stopped with "I live in the country, take specific paths, and these dogs are specially trained not to interact." Its also conducive of the bad stereotypical pit bull owner who is at fault and being aggressive because THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR OWN DAMN DOGS. *


*I had this situation three months ago. Two aggressive dogs came up. My dogs on a leash responded and I saw the mountain dog go into threat mode. I grabbed up the weiner dog and yelled at the owner to get his dogs before they died. Then the owner came up aggressively and stopped only when I pulled my mace (carried for said doggies) and was going to burn his face off. When the police came they threatened to arrest him, not me, because my dogs were on leashes and I was minding my own business.

Final note. I see you are from Michigan. I should be really ticked. You people have hogged all the cold this year. Its freaking 90 degrees today-hottest on record. Share the cold man!

OK now final note. Your black one looks like my George looked. I too raised him more correctly then many pit owners (raised him like a bird dog) so I can empathize. He was great and I miss his antics.

[rob_s]

Every dog that I've ever know to have bitten someone, or been bitten by, or almost been bitten by has been owned by someone who claims (beforehand or afterwards) "oh he's friendly, wouldn't harm a fly".

[Zincwarrior]

Every dog that I've ever know to have bitten someone, or been bitten by, or almost been bitten by has been owned by someone who claims (beforehand or afterwards) "oh he's friendly, wouldn't harm a fly".

Interestingly my biggest dogs have always been the best and didn't. Now the two wiener dogs-they're vicious. The old guy would bite you on principle. Now he had three teeth and at best it was kind of a tiny mouth hug so it was funny as heck.

[blues]

My parents' Schnauzer bit both guys who eventually married my sisters. Smart dog. :p

[Trukinjp13]

He probably would because I believe you're arguing attempted murder. In most states if someone attacks them they have the right to lethal self defense. I cant think of a jury outside of the West Coast that would not support a self defense claim in the fact pattern. I know in your fact pattern if I am walking my dogs and two pits come up in an aggressive fashion I will draw. If they aren't I wouldn't have to. If your dogs are a sufficient threat to my mountain dog they are more then a threat to me. If you appear and come to "try to get my hands on him" I'll empty the mag before you're within 15 yards of me because you are presenting a lethal threat to a person of my physical capabilities and age.

Frankly your response seems really hostile to a simple question and I am not sure why. You probably could have stopped with "I live in the country, take specific paths, and these dogs are specially trained not to interact." Its also conducive of the bad stereotypical pit bull owner who is at fault and being aggressive because THEY CAN'T CONTROL THEIR OWN DAMN DOGS. *


*I had this situation three months ago. Two aggressive dogs came up. My dogs on a leash responded and I saw the mountain dog go into threat mode. I grabbed up the weiner dog and yelled at the owner to get his dogs before they died. Then the owner came up aggressively and stopped only when I pulled my mace (carried for said doggies) and was going to burn his face off. When the police came they threatened to arrest him, not me, because my dogs were on leashes and I was minding my own business.

Final note. I see you are from Michigan. I should be really ticked. You people have hogged all the cold this year. Its freaking 90 degrees today-hottest on record. Share the cold man!

OK now final note. Your black one looks like my George looked. I too raised him more correctly then many pit owners (raised him like a bird dog) so I can empathize. He was great and I miss his antics.

My response was to someone who shot one of my dogs because he was scared of them. Because of there breed, not because they did anything. So yeah someone shoots my family, that is my reaction. Yes I am going to be hostile when talking about someone harming a loved one. It upsets me just thinking about it.

Also I am not saying they are trained to not interact. I am saying they choose not interact. They do not interact because they like to make sure that said dog/person is a friendly. I also said they are very socialized. My point of being in the country is they are off leash when we go in the woods. My little Jack Russell was the same way. They go on leash when we get by someone out walking by chance or when we are camping. It is the right thing to do.

I am sorry you had that experience. That dudes an asshole. But that would not be the case with my dogs. They really do just want other dogs and people to be there friends. As many interactions as they have had with all the campers and dogs we have ran into. Which would be a lot, because we like to go all over camping. I have had one time where I was nervous. A couple by us had a rot mix that came over into our campsite and started growling and barking at my dogs. They just backed up and got in a defensive posture growled back until I ran in between. I had to use my fire poker to startle the dog and screamed at his owner. Nothing happened thank god. But I was very happy my dogs did not chew him up. Dnr came and booted them folks because I guess it was not the first time the dog did that to another dog.

The black one is a pit/lab and she is my girl. Extremely intelligent and it is funny you say bird dog because she loves to basically point if she spots something. The tan is a rhodesian/ridgeback and am staff mix. He is just a dork. Extremely powerful and fast but just a big lump.

Sorry on the weather it has been 80s if that helps haha.


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[NH Shooter]

My Father was of the opinion there was little difference between properly raising and socializing children and puppies. The older I get the more I see how right he was.


He was a wise man.

The Story of Two Little Shits

We adopted Gracie in May of 2014. As described in a previous post, she was very submissive with little confidence.

That 4th of July we made a trip to NY to visit my wife's parents and of course, took Gracie with us. Also attending was my sister in-law and her daughter, who has two small kids (the Little Shits). The daughter doesn't do much in terms of discipline and generally thinks the two Little Shits are cute when they do obnoxious things.

We arrive at the destination and as we're getting out of the car, the two Little Shits coming running from around the back in a full gallop towards Gracie, who is on a leash. As expected, Gracie goes full submissive as the two Little Shits come down on her, they ask why she peed. We tell them they need to go slow with her and to give a little room to get used to them.

For the next four hours, the two Little Shits harass Gracie with their dumb-shit mother looking on with a smile. I finally start telling them to stay the fuck away from the dog. Since they're holy rollers, the coarse language finally makes a difference.

The following 4th, we did a repeat and rinse but actively protected Gracie from the two Little Shits. At one point I took her inside the house to get a break from it all. Gracie was off leash and without me knowing, the two Little Shits got her trapped in a corner of a bedroom. About seven feet separated them and Gracie was giving them fair warning to back off with a low growl, curled lips and stiff body language when I discovered what was going on. I lit into the two Little Shits telling them that if they had ended up bitten, they both would have also gotten a swift kick in the ass from me. That was the last time we subjected either of our dogs to the two Little Shits.

IMO, a bite in a case like this doesn't come anywhere close to justifying forfeiture of life via a bullet (not for the dog either).

[Zincwarrior]

George was part Lab. aha! does she like the water?

[NH Shooter]

I love dogs and will always have one, but given my Wyoming cattle ranch upbringing, was always a little calloused compared to most on them. Having kids has only exacerbated that. I've had to shoot dogs and I've had to shoot horses. The latter was worse for me.

Though I came from a suburban life style, I can certainly understand your need to maintain some emotional separation from the animals in your charge. I'm not sure I'd be up to that task.

[Trukinjp13]

George was part Lab. aha! does she like the water?

Funny enough. No. But that might be from where we got her. It was a rescue in the city. She was practically scared of leaves at first. She loves snow but is not a fan of water.


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[blues]

Funny enough. No. But that might be from where we got her. It was a rescue in the city. She was practically scared of leaves at first. She loves snow but is not a fan of water.

When we rescued our Weimaraner with his big webbed feet we thought he'd be a natural swimmer. Turns out, not so much. He liked walking along the water's edge but didn't care to swim. Go figure.

[Duelist]

I can't keep my Brittany out of the water. River, lake, pond, or poo-filled cow watering hole - she runs right in and flops like she's a little pig going for a wallow.

[Malamute]

Funny enough. No. But that might be from where we got her. It was a rescue in the city. She was practically scared of leaves at first. She loves snow but is not a fan of water.



One of the rescue Malamutes I had had been left in a small pen all her life, 7 years old, never even taken for walks. The guys duty was to feed her when he remembered, and his wifes job as to yell at her and kick at the fence when she went by. They had to move, and sadly, couldn't keep the dog.....it ended up in a rescue.

When I saw her, they said they didn't know if she was adoptable. I wore them down, I think they let me take her after a couple weeks just to get rid of me. :D When I first got her to the mountains, I had her leashed and walked up to a mountain creek. Dog was "WHOA, WTF???" "WHAT IS THAT?" she wouldn't go near the creek. Scary stuff. after a few minutes of me going near the water and not being eaten by the water monsters, she slowly got closer, and eventually touched it, then sniffed it, then finally stepped into it. It was hard to keep her out of the water after that. She ended up with cancer, but the last year or so of her life was pretty adventurous.

[GJM]

I can't keep my Brittany out of the water. River, lake, pond, or poo-filled cow watering hole - she runs right in and flops like she's a little pig going for a wallow.

Same with our Vizsla.

16041

16042

16043

16044

[Peally]

Dammit man it's hot out here, gotta cool off

[GuanoLoco]

Turn audio WAY up for maximum enjoyment.


https://youtu.be/OK_icPHRsWM

[GuanoLoco]

https://youtu.be/EFlQum7vlSs

Another angle with the tail action:


https://youtu.be/yNasBmX9yXU

[NH Shooter]

Someone say "water"?

http://www.canonshooter.com/photos2/gracie-5.jpg

[JohnO]

My girl in the park a couple days ago. 6 months old now.
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c286/Blaster3094/Sammi_zpsrp5f3lav.jpg


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c286/Blaster3094/F1CE3B5F-C9C0-4EB9-88C5-5DB35C3C9A86_zpsrhndcpn9.jpg

[LittleLebowski]

Though I came from a suburban life style, I can certainly understand your need to maintain some emotional separation from the animals in your charge. I'm not sure I'd be up to that task.

Having kids helps, but the upbringing makes this a necessity.

[Rex G]

When we rescued our Weimaraner with his big webbed feet we thought he'd be a natural swimmer. Turns out, not so much. He liked walking along the water's edge but didn't care to swim. Go figure.

I am glad our Bella does not like to get in the water, as we have big alligators down here. Our other dogs will hit the water joyfully, but while losing the other dogs would sadden me, losing Bella would devastate me. (Yes, Bella is an over-used cliche' name, but she already answered to it when we got her.) Plus, her thick GSD coat takes forever to dry.

[Surf]

Buddy of mine shot a dog that was chasing his cattle. His neighbors (just moved to the country from the big city) came over to complain about the fate of their beloved dog. They claimed that's why they moved to the country, so their dog could roam. My buddy, in a dead pan tone of voice, exclaimed 'all I can say is you didn't buy enough "country" '.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using TapatalkRanch / Farm rules on how I grew up. Any animal deemed nuisance as in a threat to people, crop or livestock it may be in jeopardy. We try to warn owners if possible, but if the situation warrants immediate action, there is no warning. Our newest cattle dogs (just learning) one of them got free and chased around the neighbors cattle. The neighbor called my father who went over latter to apologize as we have great relationships. My father told the other rancher that he would do everything to avoid this from happening again, but if by some reason the dog showed up again bothering his cattle, that he understood.

For myself at my new property there were a pack of 5 pits / mix hunting dogs that had gone wild and were terrorizing locals for a long time. They killed 30 of my chickens as well as neighbors birds, goats and rabbits. They are not only a danger to animals but to people especially kids. Its took 2 years but those dogs are no longer a problem and I don't make my son (13yrs) carry a gun everywhere on the property now.


I've been nipped at by Labs only. I've never personally had a problem with pits, but I've twice seen pits looking for a dog fight and attempting to provoke them; one came at my Malinois and I, the Mal (being a Mal) hit the pit at about Warp 9 speed, the pit was not prepared for that (I'm well aware that the pit has stronger jaws, but ferocity counts), and we withdrew from the dog park. As we left, I saw the pit resume making the rounds, looking for a fight.2 of my neighbors pits broke out of their kennel (yes, they were neglected) and tore through my fencing to get at my Mal. It was a hell of a fight and I was involved. Admittedly the pits were more interested in my dog than in me but I was taking cracks also. As tough, strong and relentless of a drive in my Mal (he was going to fight to the death with me) with one dog on his hind leg, left him vulnerable and the other got him by the neck. Good thing the fight ended up near my vehicle and I popped the trunk.


People look like their dogs. :)Yep, we are both grey in our beards. Two old beat up dogs.


I love dogs and will always have one, but given my Wyoming cattle ranch upbringing, was always a little calloused compared to most on them. Having kids has only exacerbated that. I've had to shoot dogs and I've had to shoot horses. The latter was worse for me.Father grew up in WV as hunters and farmers as in putting food on the table. I too grew up similar in fashion with working dogs / pets. Had to put a few down, my own and others. Always pained me. I absolutely love dogs and horses, glad I have never had to put down a horse.


Though I came from a suburban life style, I can certainly understand your need to maintain some emotional separation from the animals in your charge. I'm not sure I'd be up to that task.It is a necessity, or maybe that isn't the right word, but rather the way things are in some lifestyles. Both in my farming / ranch type of upbringing and in my professional life, dogs or other animals have a working purpose and emotional connection. However out of necessity one must be able to do the right things no matter the emotion. My kids on the other hand were not raised in the same manner as I was and they like to name the animals. All of the animals. But they are getting more educated as they grow and understand that lifestyle more despite not being raised in that environment.

[NH Shooter]

Surf, great post.

I think a major take-away of this thread is an appreciation of the diversity of human lifestyle and the adaptations we must make to accommodate them. I've been fortunate to have lived a life that did not include any serious confrontations with dogs, and the fact that all of our dogs have been pets - not working dogs - has certainly colored my perceptions.

FWIW, my wife and I are involved with a dog rescue organization here in NH, and are constantly reminded that it is through the neglect of humans that so many dogs suffer unfortunate fates. We put a very tiny, inconsequential dent in the problem - but a gratifying one.

[LittleLebowski]

Surf, great post.

I think a major take-away of this thread is an appreciation of the diversity of human lifestyle and the adaptations we must make to accommodate them. I've been fortunate to have lived a life that did not include any serious confrontations with dogs, and the fact that all of our dogs have been pets - not working dogs - has certainly colored my perceptions.

FWIW, my wife and I are involved with a dog rescue organization here in NH, and are constantly reminded that it is through the neglect of humans that so many dogs suffer unfortunate fates. We put a very tiny, inconsequential dent in the problem - but a gratifying one.

Have you had children?

[NH Shooter]

Have you had children?

Oh man, you'll be sorry now! ;-)

Our oldest child is now 36, who lives in NY with his wife and our only grand daughter. They have an old GSD they rescued when she was about eight years old, who has so far (thankfully) been great with our grand daughter.

The older of our two daughters is 32 and married, she and her husband work in NYC. They have a French Bulldog who is their only "child" (at least for now).

Our youngest is 29, a RN at Massachusetts General Hospital in Boston. Em and her Blake 12 ICU coworkers received and cared for victims of the 2013 marathon bombing (http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/04/04/six-mgh-nurses-running-marathon-in-honor-of-those-they-treated/), which was quite an experience for her (and my wife and I too). We got to know the man she cared for - Marc Fucarile (http://www.masslive.com/news/boston/index.ssf/2015/04/boston_marathon_bombing_victim_7.html) - through her care of him for time he spent at Mass Gen.

Edit - Em did indeed run and complete the 2014 Marathon. In his wheelchair Marc greeted her at the finish line and asked "what took you so long?" Through tragedy, amazing relationships formed.

Our greatest blessing in life has been our three children, their collective success and our relationship with them. Even though my wife and I are in NH, we get to see them all quite regularly. :-)

[HCountyGuy]

I've been around GSDs since I could walk, my family's dog of choice. From that upbringing I've developed a huge fondness for dogs, particularly GSDs of course. I've never had any issues out of any of them, save one incident.

When I was about 10, my folks were trying to sell our house as we were buying a new one. This couple in their late 40s/early 50s comes out one day and pokes about, but as they leave our white-colored male nips the woman. He gets a bit of a beating and quarantined to ensure he isn't rabid. Thankfully no rabies, and I don't think the couple pressed charges or anything of that nature.

Later on, we're pretty sure we figured out why our dog bit the woman. During the couple's tour of our home, the woman asked to use the bathroom and we directed her to the guest one. My grandmother, who was living with us at the time, had left some earrings on the counter which mysteriously disappeared after the couple's visit.

Good boy.

I have high affections for my dogs, but don't go overboard like some folks do as considering them people. I wouldn't hesitate to put one down were it necessary, though it would certainly pain me.

[blues]

I've been around GSDs since I could walk, my family's dog of choice. From that upbringing I've developed a huge fondness for dogs, particularly GSDs of course. I've never had any issues out of any of them, save one incident.

When I was about 10, my folks were trying to sell our house as we were buying a new one. This couple in their late 40s/early 50s comes out one day and pokes about, but as they leave our white-colored male nips the woman. He gets a bit of a beating and quarantined to ensure he isn't rabid. Thankfully no rabies, and I don't think the couple pressed charges or anything of that nature.

Later on, we're pretty sure we figured out why our dog bit the woman. During the couple's tour of our home, the woman asked to use the bathroom and we directed her to the guest one. My grandmother, who was living with us at the time, had left some earrings on the counter which mysteriously disappeared after the couple's visit.

Good boy.

I have high affections for my dogs, but don't go overboard like some folks do as considering them people. I wouldn't hesitate to put one down were it necessary, though it would certainly pain me.

You never really know for sure what any dog will do. When I was a kid a neighbor a building or two over had a Boxer which he invited me to pet.
It was a hot summer day and my foot accidentally tapped the Dixie-cup with water set on the sidewalk for the dog to drink from.

Dog bit me on the right wrist, (still have a faint scar), and scared the bezeezus out of me. (I was maybe 6 or 7 years old.) Had a distrust of Boxers for many years afterward though I've always had a natural affinity for dogs. (Our current rescue is a Boxer / Staffie mix.)

[HCountyGuy]

Notably, usually smaller dogs are more aggressive than larger ones. A friend of mine from high school who helps train working dogs and does bite work has observed and heard from other trainers about this tendency.

I've had lots of encounters with the breeds most folks associate with as aggressive, the most they've done is licked me half to death. Then there's this chihuahua near my house that used to run at me and my wife when we would go for walks, who came close to being punted in to the nearby lake on several occasions.

I've had folks who were scared of the Husky I used to have (had to put him down for age). That dog would wander up to anyone and flop over for a belly rub.

ETA: A buddy of mine who works for the local PD had to answer a call to a stop'n'rob one day for a pit bull outside the store, the callers stating the dog was basically holding them inside. My buddy shows up, gets to the dog and it's the friendliest thing ever.

[NH Shooter]

I have high affections for my dogs, but don't go overboard like some folks do as considering them people.

Canines are obviously not homo sapiens but they form relationships with humans that are truly unique in the natural world;

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6232/333

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0376635714000473

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/04/how-dogs-stole-our-hearts

Cliff Notes to the above - through the study of hormones and the use of MRI brain scans, these studies suggest that domesticated canines form emotional bonds with their owners, including oxytocin feedback loops - the same that human mothers and their newborn experience.

Of course, there is abundant evidence (https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=human+canine+bond&spf=398) that supports the amazing extent of this unique bond as well. Because of this, perhaps thinking of our dogs more as "canine family members" isn't so over-the-top after all.

[AMC]

Archaeological and anthropological (as well as genetic) evidence suggests dogs are our oldest animal companions/helpers (going back maybe as far as 30,000 years). We not only shaped them, they shaped us. Since our girl is half Carolina Dog, we've been doing a lot of study of Pariah dog breeds and other "first dogs". Fascinating stuff. We call them Man's best Friend for a reason. While we know she isn't human, our girl very clearly believes she is part of the family. Not territorial at all, really, but very protective of the wife and kids. Showed that recently when the neighbors two dogs barked at her while my daughter had her on leash in front of the house. She went absolutely bananas. Took it as a threat to my daughter, and went after them. Lab and a Labradoodle.....they retreated fast in the face of a definite "I'mnotbluffingI'llfreakingkillyouboth!!!" Charge. Neighbor wasn't upset....saw our girl was being protective. Said that display should make me feel comfortable being away from the house at night.

[JAD]

Genesis 2:25.5, "Then the Lord God made the dog out of Adam's toenail, as a sort of apology," has been deleted from modern texts, probably under the influence of cats.

[Rex G]

Notably, usually smaller dogs are more aggressive than larger ones. A friend of mine from high school who helps train working dogs and does bite work has observed and heard from other trainers about this tendency.

I've had lots of encounters with the breeds most folks associate with as aggressive, the most they've done is licked me half to death. Then there's this chihuahua near my house that used to run at me and my wife when we would go for walks, who came close to being punted in to the nearby lake on several occasions.

I've had folks who were scared of the Husky I used to have (had to put him down for age). That dog would wander up to anyone and flop over for a belly rub.

ETA: A buddy of mine who works for the local PD had to answer a call to a stop'n'rob one day for a pit bull outside the store, the callers stating the dog was basically holding them inside. My buddy shows up, gets to the dog and it's the friendliest thing ever.

I think the higher levels of aggressiveness and alertness among smaller dogs may be as simple as that they are more vulnerable, and have to compensate.

Chihuahuas, however, do seem extra aggressive, by and large, out of proportion to any size formula. They are almost like a separate species, with behaviours and characterisitics unique to the breed. (For a while, my wife seemed to run a part-time Chuhuahua match-making service; many have passed though our lives, for periods of days to years.) My wife's current semi-rescue Chihuahua is a bundle of meanness and aggressiveness, except to a very select few people and dogs, ever-ready to bite, and I mean bite hard, but then, she is the earliest-warning among our canine early-warning system, and very empathetic/healing toward my wife, perhaps the reason my wife survived her scary heart disease experience two years ago.

[Rex G]

Archaeological and anthropological (as well as genetic) evidence suggests dogs are our oldest animal companions/helpers (going back maybe as far as 30,000 years). We not only shaped them, they shaped us. Since our girl is half Carolina Dog, we've been doing a lot of study of Pariah dog breeds and other "first dogs". Fascinating stuff. We call them Man's best Friend for a reason. While we know she isn't human, our girl very clearly believes she is part of the family. Not territorial at all, really, but very protective of the wife and kids. Showed that recently when the neighbors two dogs barked at her while my daughter had her on leash in front of the house. She went absolutely bananas. Took it as a threat to my daughter, and went after them. Lab and a Labradoodle.....they retreated fast in the face of a definite "I'mnotbluffingI'llfreakingkillyouboth!!!" Charge. Neighbor wasn't upset....saw our girl was being protective. Said that display should make me feel comfortable being away from the house at night.

We had such a primeval dog, PoBear, a beautiful off-white rescue/orphan, who passed away about three years ago, at about ten years old. We told people he was a husky/shepherd mix, but his littermate, Mia, whom we placed with a friend of my wife, was declared by her vet to be a wolf mix. They did not act anything like "wolf hybrids," being very civil with people, but did act very much like the pariah breeds. Among other things, PoBear would, like a Carolina Dog, back-up into thick shrubbery to poop.

There was a very-pariah/Carolina-Dog-looking pack that used to roam the disused railroad/utility right-of-way along Westpark Drive in Houston. They were a darker cream color than PoBear, more or less tan. Very wary of humans, I managed to see them somewhat often at night, while on police patrol. I had hoped to scout their behaviors, and perhaps rescue a littler of pups, before the inevitable capture/extermination could occur, but then they disappeared. I should have acted sooner.

[11B10]

For 20 years, I've lived in a very quiet neighborhood - until about 2 years ago, when a group of people moved into a rental house two doors down from us. Since they've moved in, we've had every kind of antisocial behavior you can think of that would emanate from basically teenagers left to their own devices - with a Mother who is trying desperately to relive her youth. We had young people handcuffed on our front sidewalk last summer, we've had what we believe is drug activity, plus the type of street stuff you'd associate with inner city, like tuff guys "boxing" in the middle of the street, absolutely terrible car stunts, etc. OK, yesterday one of the frequent visitors to this address brought his dog, a pit and somethingelsehuge mix, which was sitting in the backseat of his suv, open window. Another neighbor was walking her maybe 20 lb. little dog (ld)when big dog (bd) jumps through the open window and, as ld attempts to flee, bd grabs him by the gut and begins twisting the ld so violently I think he could rip him in half. I'm across the street, just began mowing my lawn, 15 yards away. I have my H&K P30SK aiwb, spare mag at 11:00, Griptilian rf pocket, as always. I realize none of the dozen or so morons, including the mother, are gonna be able to separate the two. The mother, who's literally strolling around in the street, talking on her phone, apparently did call 911. The rest are alternating between screaming at the dog and running around in circles. I retrieve a youth baseball-sized aluminum bat from my front closet (has been used in the past to whack a couple ground hogs who invaded our yard and cornered our dog) thinking maybe I can either pry them apart or apply it liberally to the skull of the biter. By the time I come back out, bd has released ld and two LEO are just arriving. I take the ld and his owner to a grassy spot and we begin checking him out. He has a nasty puncture wound that is leaking more than bleeding and, he seems to be settling well. We are both petting him and talking to him. His breathing and heart rate are leveling off and I'm once again thinking good things for him. I have a 2-1/2 year old granddaughter living 1/2 block away and I know my approach woulda been a bit different if the biter had gone after her. I hate the idea of shooting dogs, but.....can you say contact shots? I had two phone conversations with one of the officers. I told him how good their response time was, but, was not pleased with his responses to my questions. He 'wasn't sure' where the dog was/went - he 'thinks' the owner took him...somewhere. I was only listening until he said: "You know, I walked right up to the (biter) and petted him." I said: "My experience was that I saw an approximately 85 lb. dog attempting to tear a 20 lb. dog in half. I have a granddaughter 1/2 block away - she plays outside all the time. I want to know where that dog is."

[Zincwarrior]

For 20 years, I've lived in a very quiet neighborhood - until about 2 years ago, when a group of people moved into a rental house two doors down from us. Since they've moved in, we've had every kind of antisocial behavior you can think of that would emanate from basically teenagers left to their own devices - with a Mother who is trying desperately to relive her youth. We had young people handcuffed on our front sidewalk last summer, we've had what we believe is drug activity, plus the type of street stuff you'd associate with inner city, like tuff guys "boxing" in the middle of the street, absolutely terrible car stunts, etc. OK, yesterday one of the frequent visitors to this address brought his dog, a pit and somethingelsehuge mix, which was sitting in the backseat of his suv, open window. Another neighbor was walking her maybe 20 lb. little dog (ld)when big dog (bd) jumps through the open window and, as ld attempts to flee, bd grabs him by the gut and begins twisting the ld so violently I think he could rip him in half. I'm across the street, just began mowing my lawn, 15 yards away. I have my H&K P30SK aiwb, spare mag at 11:00, Griptilian rf pocket, as always. I realize none of the dozen or so morons, including the mother, are gonna be able to separate the two. The mother, who's literally strolling around in the street, talking on her phone, apparently did call 911. The rest are alternating between screaming at the dog and running around in circles. I retrieve a youth baseball-sized aluminum bat from my front closet (has been used in the past to whack a couple ground hogs who invaded our yard and cornered our dog) thinking maybe I can either pry them apart or apply it liberally to the skull of the biter. By the time I come back out, bd has released ld and two LEO are just arriving. I take the ld and his owner to a grassy spot and we begin checking him out. He has a nasty puncture wound that is leaking more than bleeding and, he seems to be settling well. We are both petting him and talking to him. His breathing and heart rate are leveling off and I'm once again thinking good things for him. I have a 2-1/2 year old granddaughter living 1/2 block away and I know my approach woulda been a bit different if the biter had gone after her. I hate the idea of shooting dogs, but.....can you say contact shots? I had two phone conversations with one of the officers. I told him how good their response time was, but, was not pleased with his responses to my questions. He 'wasn't sure' where the dog was/went - he 'thinks' the owner took him...somewhere. I was only listening until he said: "You know, I walked right up to the (biter) and petted him." I said: "My experience was that I saw an approximately 85 lb. dog attempting to tear a 20 lb. dog in half. I have a granddaughter 1/2 block away - she plays outside all the time. I want to know where that dog is."is there a way to file a report? If you have to protect a child it would be beneficial to establish a previous record on the dog.

[11B10]

is there a way to file a report? If you have to protect a child it would be beneficial to establish a previous record on the dog.




There is a way and I will, but....hold on....doorbell - it was the ld's owner just stopped in to thank me and to give me an update on her dog. He has a 50-50 chance of making it - after her spending many dollars for surgery. As you would expect, he has significant internal, crushing-type injuries. She's a basket case because she just put down her long term buddy a few weeks ago, adopted Milo - and this happens. She told me that the female officer (who took her home yesterday) advised her to sue. I told the owner of my conversations last night with the other officer and we both agreed she has to pursue this by calling the officers. No one knows where the bd is - who his owner is or.. if he has had any shots. The owner is a strong person and I'm confident she'll get some answers.

[11B10]

It seems the smaller dog is made of some tough stuff - came home from the vet late yesterday. Except for a shaved belly, some stitches and some bruising, he looked fine. I never would've thought this possible - not after the gruesome thrashing he got!

A late addition to my earlier post - one thing I had said to the officer and neglected to repeat here (wife reminded me) was that IMHO, the pit bull wouldn't have known the difference between the 14 lb. dog and our 20-something lb. granddaughter. It was part of my response to his understandable concern as to why I was digging so deep.

[Peally]

It is a shame the hostile dog wasn't taken out of the equation by force, I have a feeling in a month or two someone else will meet the same fate.

[JTQ]

...one thing I had said to the officer and neglected to repeat here (wife reminded me) was that IMHO, the pit bull wouldn't have known the difference between the 14 lb. dog and our 20-something lb. granddaughter.
Certainly possible. However, a lot of dogs (often pitbulls, and their AKC counterparts such as American Staffordshire Terrries, Bull Terriers, Staffordshire Bull Terriers) are dog aggressive and people friendly. Though watching a dog jump from a car and latch onto another dog certainly would have had an impact on me.

[Hemiram]

I'd shoot my own dog if it bit a child.

Sometimes, the kid deserves it. More often than you might think.

My neighbor's grandson tormented their dog, Shiracco, a Lab/Collie mix when he visited. He was warned, many times, by me, by his parents, and grandparents too, when I would walk my dog and pass by. I wouldn't let him near my dog as if my dog bit him, it was going to be a whole different deal than if Grandpa's dog bit him. And he was going to get bit, sooner or later, it was going to happen. I told his dad and grandfather that I just hoped it wasn't going to be a really big dog, or a dog like mine who could amputate fingers easily with a bite. That was a big risk as most of the dogs in our neighborhood, and in the kid's neighborhood, were over 70 pounds. He didn't care, he would hit them, pinch them, slap them, etc. One Sunday afternoon, he finally pushed Shiracco too far, and she nailed him, right under his right eye, where dogs bite if they want to send the message, "STOP IT!". And that's what that bite did. It woke him up, and even though he has a permanent scar to this day on his cheek, he learned his lesson and stopped doing all the dumb stuff he used to do to dogs before he got bit. Today, he's a doctor.

He's not the only kid I've seen that got bit after having close calls and being warned, etc. My own dog was about as mild mannered as they come, but one of those kids that didn't get it decided to walk up to him, grab him by the neck and give him a headlock type of hug. He snarled in a way, and gave her a look that made it clear the kid shouldn't be doing that. Even after that scare, the kid kept doing stuff like that, and about two weeks later, she had stitches under her left eye and in her arm. She learned the wrong way too. She's a Vet now, so getting bit didn't traumatize her too much.

[OlongJohnson]

The only dog that's ever bit me was an American cocker spaniel. He was our neighbor's dog, about two years old, and I'd known him since the day they brought him home. Played together all the time. I was petting him, and hit a particular spot on the back of his neck, just ahead of his shoulder blades. He turned and bit my hand.

Had another friend in college whose family dog was an American cocker. His mom was petting it one day, and hit the same spot. But she wasn't so lucky. She was holding the dog in her arms, and when it turned and snapped, it bit her face, nearly taking an eye. Unbelievably, with his mom's face permanently scarred, they still had the dog years later.

I would never have an American cocker in the house.

[Clusterfrack]

Sometimes, the kid deserves it. More often than you might think.

My neighbor's grandson tormented their dog, Shiracco, a Lab/Collie mix when he visited. He was warned, many times, by me, by his parents, and grandparents too, when I would walk my dog and pass by. I wouldn't let him near my dog as if my dog bit him, it was going to be a whole different deal than if Grandpa's dog bit him. And he was going to get bit, sooner or later, it was going to happen. I told his dad and grandfather that I just hoped it wasn't going to be a really big dog, or a dog like mine who could amputate fingers easily with a bite. That was a big risk as most of the dogs in our neighborhood, and in the kid's neighborhood, were over 70 pounds. He didn't care, he would hit them, pinch them, slap them, etc. One Sunday afternoon, he finally pushed Shiracco too far, and she nailed him, right under his right eye, where dogs bite if they want to send the message, "STOP IT!". And that's what that bite did. It woke him up, and even though he has a permanent scar to this day on his cheek, he learned his lesson and stopped doing all the dumb stuff he used to do to dogs before he got bit. Today, he's a doctor.

He's not the only kid I've seen that got bit after having close calls and being warned, etc. My own dog was about as mild mannered as they come, but one of those kids that didn't get it decided to walk up to him, grab him by the neck and give him a headlock type of hug. He snarled in a way, and gave her a look that made it clear the kid shouldn't be doing that. Even after that scare, the kid kept doing stuff like that, and about two weeks later, she had stitches under her left eye and in her arm. She learned the wrong way too. She's a Vet now, so getting bit didn't traumatize her too much.

Snout-biting is a correction adult/alpha dogs use to tell puppies and pack members they are out of line (see picture below). Fortunately we were able to train our beasts that it's not ok to bite kids, even when they deserve it. One time a dog-torturing little boy yanked our male's tail, and got a snarling mouthful of teeth in his face--but no bite. Kid peed his pants and cried. (Not sure if he learned not to hurt dogs though).


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