New gun owner - What helped me the most

[Thepig]

Hi, kinda new to the gun world. Wanted to stop by and say what has helped me the most for getting the bullets where you want them. I've been shooting my whole life (since 5), but never really knew how to shoot. I recently purchased a gun for my conceal carry (Springfield Xd-9), which I now know is pretty terrible for marksmanship. I've put a bit over 2000 rounds down range in the last 2 months, did not start very smoothly. Since this was the first non-revolver handgun I've fired and owned and was never taught properly how to aim.. it was not going very well. Luckily at my range, one of the workers there was very knowledgeable and super impressive to say the least. I tapped him for knowledge on day 1 and worked relentlessly on finding, watching and practicing what he taught me. I scoured online but never found anything beyond what he already taught me, which just reinforced my drive to practice what I knew. I always prefer learning from a master on any subject before adding or trying my own technique. The only thing I do differently is my grip, because my gun is a bit small for my size.

I just wanted to go over what has worked for me for any new shooters visiting or for any old shooters to chime in with information.

1. Smooth trigger pulling - It was a big deal for my gun specifically. The damn trigger moves half way before it comes to the point where you need to actually put pressure on it, once it is in position though, it does not take much to actually shoot it. The reset is much different than most guns I've shot also, having to let the trigger go a bit more than it takes to get it to the point where it will fire. The main thing to emphasize is, your pull needs to be so slow and smooth that it does not move the gun as you are pulling the trigger. If you want to test yourself, have a friend load a random amount of bullets into your magazine and then fire. If you end up dry firing it and moving the gun significantly, then you need to practice your trigger pulling. Dry firing it helps a ton to help muscle memory. Also, after you finished firing all the rounds in your magazine while NOT COUNTING THEM, watch to see how you fire the gun after it's empty. It's similar to your friend loading it, but you can do it on your own.

2. Front sight focus - This was the 2nd most important thing besides slow trigger pulling. The basic thing to understand is, your front sight should be fully visible, while the target is blurry. Divide your target in half, with the top of the sight being where you want your bullet to go, not putting the dot where the bullet fires.

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I combined 2 pictures into one meme that you can easily reference and share. I am not sure if this applies to both eyes open, I don't think it does though.

I also took some optical illusions and photo-shopped front sights onto them. When you are completely focused on the sight, the illusions will stop moving. This helps train your saccadic eye movements, even if you are already a master, these can provide further foundation and practicing at a whim, from your phone or printed out on paper/photopaper (photopaper works better).

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Don't worry about the labeling, it was for what was harder for me not for you.

3. Flat finger trigger pulling - Most people will show you the chart, if you shoot left or right, you move your finger to compensate. I found that flat finger trigger pulling alleviated this completely. This post is for what helped ME the most, which may not aid you at all. The technique is hard to explain over the Internet.. The jist of it though is, when your finger tip is on the trigger, you let the tip of it go compltely loose while you pull back my moving the part closest to the knuckle. If doing it right, your fingertip will bend instead of you forcing it to stay in position.

That's it! These are the 3 things that helped me get my groupings at 15 yards to 1 1/2 inches. I havent done much 25 yard shooting yet, I plan on doing so once I actually get a gun that is more orientated on accuracy than defense. The damn XD-9 is just a hard to shoot accuracy wise. Not a single person I've let shoot my gun has got close to what I am capable of, besides the person who taught me.. He managed to pretty much shoot through his previous bullet hole, less than 1 inch grouping (like I said, he was damn impressive).

[ReverendMeat]

Dang, 1.5" at 15 yards offhand? Your groups are too small man, shoot faster! ;)

[Thepig]

They get mad when you shoot too fast :)

I've only been shooting this style and type of gun for about 2 months now. Every once in awhile I catch myself flinching at the end of the mag, since I made it a point to never count my shots and focus primary on the trigger pulling. Shooting fast was one of the last things on my list to learn how to do. I purchased my gum primarily for a ccw and fell in love with the self challenge of it.

You own a Sauer or is that just your sig? See what I did there?

[HCM]

I'm glad you found things which work for you but there is "more than one way to skin a cat".


Divide your target in half, with the top of the sight being where you want your bullet to go, not putting the dot where the bullet

This may be true of your gun, with your sights but this will vary from gun to gun. What you describe is commonly referred to as "Sight Picture Number 2" but it is not universal.

15905

Some guns will be set up for Sight Picture number 1, (6 o'clock hold) or sight picture number 3 (drive the dot).

Trigger finger placement will also vary with the individual and the gun. What ever allows the shooter to pull the trigger straight to the rear and "finish flat" will produce good results.

The "chart" you refer to was developed "back in the day" for one handed shooters. It has little application to two handed shooting.

[Lomshek]

The main thing to emphasize is, your pull needs to be so slow and smooth that it does not move the gun as you are pulling the trigger.

Welcome to the forum. There's a lot to learn.

Read this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24731-Take-up-or-not-take-up-trigger-slack-or-should-I-pause-before-I-reach-the-wall) and watch the videos about trigger squeeze a few pages in.

I'm going to disagree with you completely when you say slow. Smooth I'll agree with but you can be fast and smooth.

[Luke]

Welcome to the forum. There's a lot to learn.

Read this thread (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24731-Take-up-or-not-take-up-trigger-slack-or-should-I-pause-before-I-reach-the-wall) and watch the videos about trigger squeeze a few pages in.

I'm going to disagree with you completely when you say slow. Smooth I'll agree with but you can be fast and smooth.


I agree with this.

Looks like you've made a TON of progress and have done what MANY gun owners haven't, practiced! So, good on you for that.

[BJXDS]

+1 on the replies on trigger pull. The only thing I can add is if you are shooting 1.5" groups at 15 yards, it probably aint the gun, and you should do well at 25. ie try a 200 drill

[walker2713]

Welcome to the forum!!!

A very interesting post, and congratulations on progressing with your shooting. I expect your post will generate some substantial productive conversations!!!

[Thepig]

Most of the things you are saying comes after a strong foundation. I don't think many of you will tell a new shooter that shooting fast and pulling the trigger fast with out any previous practice @ 15yards. It might be hard to remember how you learned or your muscle memory and focus, but it's really important to emphasize that this was what worked to learn for me. The opinions of this have a lot of variation also, depending on what you are shooting for like speed, bullseye and distance . Another big thing is what kind of trigger you have. With my wife's P238 HD, it does not feel or shoot at all like my XD-9. The trigger slack in the XD is 4x as much as the p238 and provides you a much greater chance to mess up the pull if you don't have the proper technique down. I guess something to also point out is, I don't enjoy taking more than 1.5 seconds to make my shot. I've noticed that if I am trying too hard, it effects my accuracy quite a bit.

I try to take up the slack as fast as I can after my shot, which I can usually accomplish relatively fast. After my shot as I am getting my sights back on target is the time I take the slack out of my trigger. I must state again though, the damn XD has more slack in it than most guns I've ever shot, I don't have to do this at all for the P238. Which also leads me to believe that there is no single way to do it, you need to adopt the best strategy for what you are doing and not run into adopting universals.

The sight images, 1 and 3 don't apply to the every day shooter correct? Sight 1 is for people to have adjusted their sights for a offset on purpose so they can see the bullseye at longer range, but from my understanding #2 is the way you should be shooting if you purchased a gun.

[RJ]

Most of the things you are saying comes after a strong foundation. I don't think many of you will tell a new shooter that shooting fast and pulling the trigger fast with out any previous practice @ 15yards. It might be hard to remember how you learned or your muscle memory and focus, but it's really important to emphasize that this was what worked to learn for me. The opinions of this have a lot of variation also, depending on what you are shooting for like speed, bullseye and distance . Another big thing is what kind of trigger you have. With my wife's P238 HD, it does not feel or shoot at all like my XD-9. The trigger slack in the XD is 4x as much as the p238 and provides you a much greater chance to mess up the pull if you don't have the proper technique down. I guess something to also point out is, I don't enjoy taking more than 1.5 seconds to make my shot. I've noticed that if I am trying too hard, it effects my accuracy quite a bit.

I try to take up the slack as fast as I can after my shot, which I can usually accomplish relatively fast. After my shot as I am getting my sights back on target is the time I take the slack out of my trigger. I must state again though, the damn XD has more slack in it than most guns I've ever shot, I don't have to do this at all for the P238. Which also leads me to believe that there is no single way to do it, you need to adopt the best strategy for what you are doing and not run into adopting universals.

The sight images, 1 and 3 don't apply to the every day shooter correct? Sight 1 is for people to have adjusted their sights for a offset on purpose so they can see the bullseye at longer range, but from my understanding #2 is the way you should be shooting if you purchased a gun.

I, like most every HK pistol shooter, use sight picture 3 (shoot the dot) exclusively, yes, for everyday. Either training in a class, target shooting towards an objective, a steel match, or a stage in USPSA (not that I've done very many of the last two.)

As to your post, thanks for sharing. I am interested in new shooter perspectives, since I am one myself.

Question: have you ever practiced at speed? For example, shooting 10 rounds in ten seconds at 10 yards on an NRA B-8 bullseye repair center for score?

I started doing that this year, and made a lot of progress in grip, press and recoil management.

[scw2]

Sounds like you've made really good progress so far! Two things to consider that I've seen myself and others do when they start out, especially those than tend to do a lot of slower group shooting.

1. Learn to reset the trigger while it's in recoil. Someone mentioned that to me early so I was able to fix it easily before it was really a habit, but I have seen stories of people that shoot a long time with the trigger pinned, and when then try to fix it it is a lot harder for them due to the habit.

2. Grip hard. My buddy does slow fire shooting. His grip looks kinda awkward, and I don't think he's gripping hard. He can get away with it because he's not shooting at a reasonably fast speed (seconds between shots). Recoil control doesn't look too bad, but I imagine shooting fast will be a problem for him unless his trigger control is great.

Keep up the good work!

[StraitR]

Most of the things you are saying comes after a strong foundation. I don't think many of you will tell a new shooter that shooting fast and pulling the trigger fast with out any previous practice @ 15yards. It might be hard to remember how you learned or your muscle memory and focus, but it's really important to emphasize that this was what worked to learn for me. The opinions of this have a lot of variation also, depending on what you are shooting for like speed, bullseye and distance . Another big thing is what kind of trigger you have. With my wife's P238 HD, it does not feel or shoot at all like my XD-9. The trigger slack in the XD is 4x as much as the p238 and provides you a much greater chance to mess up the pull if you don't have the proper technique down. I guess something to also point out is, I don't enjoy taking more than 1.5 seconds to make my shot. I've noticed that if I am trying too hard, it effects my accuracy quite a bit.

I try to take up the slack as fast as I can after my shot, which I can usually accomplish relatively fast. After my shot as I am getting my sights back on target is the time I take the slack out of my trigger. I must state again though, the damn XD has more slack in it than most guns I've ever shot, I don't have to do this at all for the P238. Which also leads me to believe that there is no single way to do it, you need to adopt the best strategy for what you are doing and not run into adopting universals.

The sight images, 1 and 3 don't apply to the every day shooter correct? Sight 1 is for people to have adjusted their sights for a offset on purpose so they can see the bullseye at longer range, but from my understanding #2 is the way you should be shooting if you purchased a gun.

I enjoyed the optical illusions, and found that I had to actually push my arms out like I was holding a gun to get the proper focus on the sights and make everything stop moving. Funny. :p

I believe the terms fast and slow when applied to the context of trigger pull are both subjective and semantical. It seems, when learning, one must move at the pace that allows them to perform the most technically perfect repetition they can. Learning to do a proper trigger press is the goal, the speed in which one pulls the trigger to get that perfect press will vary from person to person. As proficiency is gained, speed will naturally follow in a linear fashion. It's misquoted a lot, but I feel this is the foundational idea behind "slow is smooth, smooth is fast".

There are a lot of highly proficient shooters, that if you slow down video of them shooting, it will appear that they are slapping the snot out of the trigger. But, they've got the smooth and perfect thing down, so are able to do it at speeds that look out of control to the uninitiated. Funny thing about the average gun boards, and I guess it's just people in general, but a great majority assume that if they can't do something, it's not possible. It's this attitude that prevents people from growth, no matter what the subject is.

Welcome to the board. Sounds like you're on the right track.

[Lomshek]

Most of the things you are saying comes after a strong foundation. I don't think many of you will tell a new shooter that shooting fast and pulling the trigger fast with out any previous practice @ 15yards.

I don't enjoy taking more than 1.5 seconds to make my shot. I've noticed that if I am trying too hard, it effects my accuracy quite a bit.

Really that is how I teach someone, even brand new shooters. Taking 1.5 seconds (or even one second) to pull the trigger through it's stroke is glacially slow. It can work to a point but there are far better methods.

I don't tell a shooter to rush the shot and jerk the trigger but demonstrate with a case balanced on the front sight how to pull the trigger quickly and cleanly through its stroke. After they've seen me do it I have them do the same thing until they can keep the case balanced then we do some live and dummy fire.

Doesn't matter whether it's a DAO Taurus, Glock or 1911. Once the decision has been made to fire pull the trigger through whatever remains of the stroke whether they are at the "wall" or at the beginning of the stroke. Specifics depend on whether they are drawing and firing their first shot or firing follow up shots after resetting the trigger during recoil (as I've been taught by the truly skilled shooters here). There are always exceptions and degrees of speed as discussed in the thread I linked previously but 1.5 seconds is far, far, far too slow.

There's a lot to learn beyond where you are at (and beyond where I am at for sure). What works for you right now is better than what you were doing but not ideal.

Watch the videos in this post by Surf (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24731-Take-up-or-not-take-up-trigger-slack-or-should-I-pause-before-I-reach-the-wall&p=576421&viewfull=1#post576421) and think about what fraction of a second the shooter spends pulling the trigger.

[Thepig]

I wrote out a reply and posted it, just did not seem to post so I will shorten it.

What Surf is doing is what I am doing. I think we are getting lost in words because I have no idea what the lingo is. The 1.5 seconds max, was for the steps in the first and second video.

I am really trying to focus on building good muscle memory and brain patterns for sight alignment. I dryfire a lot at home just focusing on perfect sight alignment since resetting the trigger during the recoil phase is almost coming 100% natural at this point, although a few times when first starting out I fired 2 times accidentally the first time I practiced this method (oops), nearly hit the ceiling. Most of the time I am aiming and not worrying about my trigger now.

[Peally]

Assuming you're going for accuracy at range or something yes, the first image is pretty important for a lot of people that don't realize what they're doing.

The optical illusions just give me headaches though ;)

[Thepig]

Assuming you're going for accuracy at range or something yes, the first image is pretty important for a lot of people that don't realize what they're doing.

The optical illusions just give me headaches though ;)

When I first started looking at them, I made it a point to only focus about the same time it takes me to empty a mag. I can now look at them for 20 or 30 seconds before I see any movement in the picture or my eye twitches out of position. I draw out the pictures on my photopaper like a gun and focus on the sight. The faster you can get them to stop moving the better. I noticed a huge increase in how fast my sight focus while shooting, there does not seem to be ANY delay now from the time I choose to focus on it and when my eye actually focuses.

Of course this could be from practicing with my gun also, the pictures are much harder though. I figured it might transition into shooting kinda like how swinging a bat with weights on it makes the bat seem lighter.

I also had the idea, and its just an idea, while watching videos of people shooting that.. If you learn how to hit targets from greater distances, the ones closer to you might seem much easier to aim at. Has anybody noticed shooting long range transition into easier short range?

[ReverendMeat]

They get mad when you shoot too fast :)

I've only been shooting this style and type of gun for about 2 months now. Every once in awhile I catch myself flinching at the end of the mag, since I made it a point to never count my shots and focus primary on the trigger pulling. Shooting fast was one of the last things on my list to learn how to do. I purchased my gum primarily for a ccw and fell in love with the self challenge of it.

You own a Sauer or is that just your sig? See what I did there?

Ha, I've owned more SIG pistols than I can readily remember off the top of my head.

It sucks that your range prevents you from shooting fast, that's not uncommon. One thing that I would focus on in that instance is time to first shot (from a holster if allowed, or from the table or ready position if not), as well as tracking your front sight through the recoil process and insure that you have the trigger reset and prepped for your next shot by the time you reacquire your sight picture.

[Thepig]

I love my wifes P238, I was thinking about renting out a Sauer 9mm. Somebody also mentioned to me that a Glock 17L is great for plinking and accuracy, which is what I want my next gun to be for.

Any suggestions for a Sauer 9mm?

[ReverendMeat]

My first recommendation would be the SP2022. About half the price of a P229/P226 and a better trigger out of the box.

[Gio]

A lot of other posters have nailed it on the trigger manipulation technique, but I'll add that it's almost equally important to learn how and when to shoot with the second sight picture in your post as it is with the first.

Regarding the "Flat Finger Pulling," I've found through years of instructing students on striker fired pistols that there is no one size fits all method. I've seen the method you describe work for some people and others who can't get it to work for them. I've seen shooters find success with the tip of their index finger on the trigger, the middle of the index finger pad, and their finger all the way in the trigger where their first knuckle is against the trigger. The important thing isn't finger placement, it's whether or not the shooter can press the trigger fast without disturbing the sights. I don't care what method shooters use to accomplish it, as long as they are accomplishing it. Find what works for you and practice it until it becomes muscle memory instead of conscious thought.

[Thepig]

A lot of other posters have nailed it on the trigger manipulation technique, but I'll add that it's almost equally important to learn how and when to shoot with the second sight picture in your post as it is with the first.

Regarding the "Flat Finger Pulling," I've found through years of instructing students on striker fired pistols that there is no one size fits all method. I've seen the method you describe work for some people and others who can't get it to work for them. I've seen shooters find success with the tip of their index finger on the trigger, the middle of the index finger pad, and their finger all the way in the trigger where their first knuckle is against the trigger. The important thing isn't finger placement, it's whether or not the shooter can press the trigger fast without disturbing the sights. I don't care what method shooters use to accomplish it, as long as they are accomplishing it. Find what works for you and practice it until it becomes muscle memory instead of conscious thought.

Yes, I tried to make it very clear that this is what worked for me and people should do what works for them, what ever it may be as long as you are finding success doing it.

Something I've noticed here and other gun boards.. I am going to try to be polite about it.

You cannot say "All that is important is fast", and at the same time say what has worked. Fast is important for you and your style of shooting, for me.. I have a infinite amount of time and I really don't care for shooting fast, so that does not work for me nor is it applicable. I don't ever want to get into the super fast target shooting, although I can see why people enjoy it. Most of the people responded to my post with a picture in mind of what they are doing and applying it to my situation, which is again, not what I am doing or plan to be doing. This may be subject to change in the future, it's just not very important to me right now though, shooting fast that is.

Is there any reason why people keep brining up fast BESIDES for competition shooting? For self defense purposes I don't think I would miss a single shot if I pulled as quick as I can on a human body from 5 yards. I don't think many people would miss a human target from that far away and I don't think of it as being anything special. Firing your 10 shots and getting inch grouping sounds more appealing to me than firing them as fast as possible. Although firing fast and getting small groupings could be a nice goal to set, but certainty not in the style that I see people competing in.

[HCM]

The sight images, 1 and 3 don't apply to the every day shooter correct? Sight 1 is for people to have adjusted their sights for a offset on purpose so they can see the bullseye at longer range, but from my understanding #2 is the way you should be shooting if you purchased a gun.

Sight picture 1 and 3 apply to the everyday shooter if that is how their sights are set up. Guns can come from the factory set up for any of the three sight pictures.

I personally prefer #2 for general use but many guns, like the SIG P series for example, come set up for sight picture #3 / "drive the dot". SIG refers to it as a "Combat" sight picture.

My point is what you describe in terms of sight pictures and trigger control is "A way" not "The way".

[HCM]

Yes, I tried to make it very clear that this is what worked for me and people should do what works for them, what ever it may be as long as you are finding success doing it.

Something I've noticed here and other gun boards.. I am going to try to be polite about it.

You cannot say "All that is important is fast", and at the same time say what has worked. Fast is important for you and your style of shooting, for me.. I have a infinite amount of time and I really don't care for shooting fast, so that does not work for me nor is it applicable. I don't ever want to get into the super fast target shooting, although I can see why people enjoy it. Most of the people responded to my post with a picture in mind of what they are doing and applying it to my situation, which is again, not what I am doing or plan to be doing. This may be subject to change in the future, it's just not very important to me right now though, shooting fast that is.

Is there any reason why people keep brining up fast BESIDES for competition shooting? For self defense purposes I don't think I would miss a single shot if I pulled as quick as I can on a human body from 5 yards. I don't think many people would miss a human target from that far away and I don't think of it as being anything special. Firing your 10 shots and getting inch grouping sounds more appealing to me than firing them as fast as possible. Although firing fast and getting small groupings could be a nice goal to set, but certainty not in the style that I see people competing in.

You need a balance of speed and accuracy. Gio's comments are spot on.

Shooting at static paper targets in a no stress environment is one thing. When you and / or your opponent are moving and you have the stress of your opponent trying to kill you and / or some one you care about is another. Given those conditions, you would be surprised what you can miss, even at close range.

Regarding speed, you are forgetting self defense purposes involve "an opposing will". Time is always a factor. Do some research on Col. John Boyd and the O-O-D-A loop. Basically, he argues fighting can be broken down into a series of competing time cycles. Who every can complete their cycle of Observe-Orient-Decide-Act faster is normally the winner. This is a gross simplification but accurate enough to start with.

There is an old saying to the effect that there is no timer in a gunfight but you can bet the other guy is not going to standstill or take his sweet time. In the words of the U.S. Supreme court they are circumstances which are " tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving".

Shot placement is important but what you need to hit to stop a human with a pistol shot is generally the size of your fist or a little larger, the 5 1/2" black portion of a traditional B-8 bullseye target represents this well, as do both 3x5" and 5x7" index cards.

Along these lines a common exercise is referred to as "The Test" or 10-10-10. Ten rounds on a B-8 bullseve target, at 10 yards in 10 seconds. If you can consistently keep all 10 in the 5 1/2" black of the bull you are competent enough that, for self defense purposes, you should start looking at other aspects like awareness, avoidance, tactics, etc.

There is nothing wrong with shooting for fun or as hobby but it is not the same as shooting as a form of fighting.

[Thepig]

You need a balance of speed and accuracy. Gio's comments are spot on.

Shooting at static paper targets in a no stress environment is one thing. When you and / or your opponent are moving and you have the stress of your opponent trying to kill you and / or some one you care about. Given those conditions, you would be surprised what you can miss, even at close range.

Regarding speed, you are forgetting a self defense purposes involve "an opposing will". Time is always a factor. Do some research on Col. John Boyd and the O-O-D-A loop. Basically, he argues fighting can be broken down into a series of competing time cycles. Who every can complete their cycle of Observe-Orient-Decide-Act faster is normally the winner. This is a gross simplification but accurate enough to start with.

There is an old saying to the effect that there is no timer in a gunfight but you can bet the other guy is not going to standstill or take his sweet time. In the words of the U.S. Supreme court they are circumstances which are " tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving".

Shot placement is important but what you need to hit to stop a human with a pistol shot is generally the size of your fist or a little larger, the 5 1/2" black portion of a traditional B-8 bullseye target represents this well, as do both 3x5" and 5x7" index cards.

Along these lines a common exercise is referred to as "The Test" or 10-10-10. Ten rounds on a B-8 bullseve target, at 10 yards in 10 seconds. If you can consistently keep all 10 in the 5 1/2" black of the bull you are competent enough that, for self defense purposes, you should start looking at other aspects like awareness, avoidance, tactics, etc.

There is nothing wrong with shooting for fun or as hobby but it is not the same as shooting as a form of fighting.

This makes perfect sense, thank you for taking the time to explain the why portion.

[Gio]

Is there any reason why people keep brining up fast BESIDES for competition shooting? For self defense purposes I don't think I would miss a single shot if I pulled as quick as I can on a human body from 5 yards. I don't think many people would miss a human target from that far away and I don't think of it as being anything special. Firing your 10 shots and getting inch grouping sounds more appealing to me than firing them as fast as possible. Although firing fast and getting small groupings could be a nice goal to set, but certainty not in the style that I see people competing in.

This is a defensive focused pistol forum, so when you discuss fundamentals and accuracy, I and many other posters assumed you were talking about shooting as it relates to defensive pistol use or action pistol sports, which are very similar. Overall speed is an important aspect of defensive pistol use, for reasons HCM described above. In addition, being able to press the trigger quickly and keep shots on target is also important in defensive pistol use. Videos of LE and civilian shootings show that people pull the trigger as fast as they can in a gun fight. Statistically, avg LE shootings happen at 3-5 yds and the avg LE hit rate is 10-20%. In my experience, the reason for that dismal hit rate is because most LE do not train to control the gun or get accurate hits at the speed they are pulling the trigger in a gunfight. If you train without any speed element and expect you will be able to hit a bad guy in a gun fight, even at a modest distance, then you are approaching this the wrong way and you can benefit from the advice here. If you are only practicing to be a bullseye shooter or to make tiny groups at distance with no time pressure, then rock on.

[Thepig]

If you are only practicing to be a bullseye shooter or to make tiny groups at distance with no time pressure, then rock on.

This was my plan, although now looking back on it, it was a bit naive of me to assume how I would act in a gunfight. I did mention several times that I did not plan on doing much of anything else besides bullseye shooting for accuracy, while at the same time admitting that I got my gun purely for a CCW, which may have caused some misinterpretation of what I actually was doing.

I might have to look up and see if there are some place around me to train, first questions for you though.

1. Is there any preferred company, style or training methods that I can pick out that are more recommended over others. Last thing I want to do is spend money on a bunk course with a bad instructor, I don't have much money which is why I kinda set my goals low.

2. Any ways to knowingly spot a bad instructor by verbiage or technique? Are there specific instances of proven terrible ways to train for what you are talking about? I do dog training, or have done it I should say. It's easily recognizable when somebody has little to no idea when in conversation.

3. Will my XD be fine for this? I know that it is not really a liked gun

[HCM]

This was my plan, although now looking back on it, it was a bit naive of me to assume how I would act in a gunfight. I did mention several times that I did not plan on doing much of anything else besides bullseye shooting for accuracy, while at the same time admitting that I got my gun purely for a CCW, which may have caused some misinterpretation of what I actually was doing.

I might have to look up and see if there are some place around me to train, first questions for you though.

1. Is there any preferred company, style or training methods that I can pick out that are more recommended over others. Last thing I want to do is spend money on a bunk course with a bad instructor, I don't have much money which is why I kinda set my goals low.

2. Any ways to knowingly spot a bad instructor by verbiage or technique? Are there specific instances of proven terrible ways to train for what you are talking about? I do dog training, or have done it I should say. It's easily recognizable when somebody has little to no idea when in conversation.

3. Will my XD be fine for this? I know that it is not really a liked gun

For realistic CCW related training and info, my first recommendation is Tom Givens and Rangemaster. Even if you cant make one of their classes, Tom's website including some of his articles and Rangemaster newsletters are a wealth of information. I also recommend you read Tom's book "Fighting Smarter".

Tom has also done several interviews with Ballistic Radio which you can listen to online: http://ballisticradio.com/?s=tom+givens

Re: the XD, it is a decent gun from a "shootability" perspective (decent sights, trigger etc). The issues from a defensive POV are durability and reliability at the higher round counts dedicated shooters put through s gun in training and the grip safety locking the slide in addition to functioning as a safety, which can inhibit manipulation or malfunction clearance if your grip is compromised. In both actual shootings and force on force training with marking cartridges we see a fair number of hits to the gun hand. We see people tend to unconsciously focus on their opponents gun as a source of danger when returning fire.

[HopetonBrown]

For self defense purposes I don't think I would miss a single shot if I pulled as quick as I can on a human body from 5 yards. I don't think many people would miss a human target from that far away and I don't think of it as being anything special.

Rethink your thinking.

[Thepig]

Rethink your thinking.

I already admitted that my train of thought was wrong, scroll up :), or here "This was my plan, although now looking back on it, it was a bit naive of me to assume how I would act in a gunfight."

[Lomshek]

1. Is there any preferred company, style or training methods that I can pick out that are more recommended over others. Last thing I want to do is spend money on a bunk course with a bad instructor, I don't have much money which is why I kinda set my goals low.

2. Any ways to knowingly spot a bad instructor by verbiage or technique? Are there specific instances of proven terrible ways to train for what you are talking about? I do dog training, or have done it I should say. It's easily recognizable when somebody has little to no idea when in conversation.


Tell us where you are (state at least) and maybe someone in your area is a known good trainer.

Check out the Pistol Forum training announcements board (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?7-Pistol-Class-Announcements) to see if anything is going on near you. If it's listed there chances are it's a good course.

Spotting a bad instructor by verbiage or technique is easy with experience (like your ability to smell BS in dog trainers) but not something easily conveyed. Do a ton of reading and research and take a class from a "known commodity to learn what good is.

[Drang]

Tell us where you are (state at least) and maybe someone in your area is a known good trainer.

Check out the Pistol Forum training announcements board (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?7-Pistol-Class-Announcements) to see if anything is going on near you.
Or, check out this site a member is running: Firearms Training Hub (http://firearmstraininghub.com/)

[Thepig]

Tell us where you are (state at least) and maybe someone in your area is a known good trainer.

Check out the Pistol Forum training announcements board (https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?7-Pistol-Class-Announcements) to see if anything is going on near you. If it's listed there chances are it's a good course.

Spotting a bad instructor by verbiage or technique is easy with experience (like your ability to smell BS in dog trainers) but not something easily conveyed. Do a ton of reading and research and take a class from a "known commodity to learn what good is.

Northern Commiefornia, I will check that out as well as the member site suggested on page 4.

[Dave J]

The sight images, 1 and 3 don't apply to the every day shooter correct? Sight 1 is for people to have adjusted their sights for a offset on purpose so they can see the bullseye at longer range, but from my understanding #2 is the way you should be shooting if you purchased a gun.

Adding to what HCM already posted on this, you may find that the required sight picture varies with distance to target. For example, I have several guns that typically need a #3 around 5-7 yards, closer to #2 at 25, and more like #1 at 50. The longer ranges will show more variance with different ammo as well.

[HopetonBrown]

This was my plan, although now looking back on it, it was a bit naive of me to assume how I would act in a gunfight. I did mention several times that I did not plan on doing much of anything else besides bullseye shooting for accuracy, while at the same time admitting that I got my gun purely for a CCW, which may have caused some misinterpretation of what I actually was doing.

I might have to look up and see if there are some place around me to train, first questions for you though.

1. Is there any preferred company, style or training methods that I can pick out that are more recommended over others. Last thing I want to do is spend money on a bunk course with a bad instructor, I don't have much money which is why I kinda set my goals low.

2. Any ways to knowingly spot a bad instructor by verbiage or technique? Are there specific instances of proven terrible ways to train for what you are talking about? I do dog training, or have done it I should say. It's easily recognizable when somebody has little to no idea when in conversation.

3. Will my XD be fine for this? I know that it is not really a liked gun

My friend teaches pistol classes in the Bay Area. Full disclosure, I help with the cat herding. He's a former SWAT cop and current USPSA Master. PM me if you'd like details.