Hammer fired guns in a Striker fired world

[MSparks909]

Some recent threads motivated this thought process and I figured this is one of the best places to get some good info. Its abundantly clear that as times have changed, so have firearm preferences. This year saw the adoption of the Sig P320 as the next US Military sidearm, ending a 116 year period of using hammer fired sidearms as the "official" sidearm. I'm not much one for nostalgia, but I do find the trend interesting. It's clear that the market demand for striker fired guns is at an all time high, with CZ, Beretta and FN introducing new models in the past 6 months alone. We also have Sig, Walther, HK, Canik, Steyr, Ruger, Remington, (insert favorite brand here) that have all introduced their ideal version of the "Glock killer" striker fired handgun.

I'm curious how many of you on here carry and prefer to shoot hammer fired guns? I'm not limiting this to one category; it could be a 1911, a DA/SA (any brand), HK LEM, whatever. If you do carry a hammer fired gun, regardless of what it is, I'd be curious to hear your specific reasons why.

On the same token, if you carry a striker fired gun, regardless of brand, I'd also like to hear why as opposed to a DA/SA or 1911. I'd like to leave "fanboy-ism" out of this thread if possible.

If all you've ever shot is striker fired guns and have never tried a hammer fired gun please post up as well.

I personally grew up shooting Glocks, and I began seriously training about 4 years ago. I dipped my feet into DA/SA Berettas, and now they are my primary carry. I still own Glocks, but prefer a hammer gun for day-to-day carry and competitive shooting. I like the extra safety margin I have with the long DA first shot, and I like how every shot after that is a nice, crisp SA break. I like thumbing the hammer as I reholster (I carry appendix). I incorporate the press-out into my draw and like that I can be more aggressive with my DA first shot as I have a longer trigger travel, as opposed to a striker fired gun. Those are my reasons and I'd like to hear yours.

[SsevenN]

Like you sparks I've been all over the map. Content right now with AIWB and the LEM trigger system. It's the "real world" balance aspect I appreciate the most, safe, consistent, controllable and fast.

That said, I think it's pretty clear that while some systems might be harder to develop competency on - nothing is off the table and software whoops hardware in the pecking order.

[RJ]

In 2014 I bought a SF M&P Full Size. Easy to shoot at the range. I could not get past wondering if the accuracy issues at 25 yd were me or not, so I bought a VP9 in 2015.

In 2016 I started to try and find a holster method that would work for me. After buying out Tony's stock in Kydex (or it seemed to me lol) I tried a Walther PPS M2.

Unfortunately, being a lefty with an outside button mag release is a bad combination. I traded the M&P and the Walther for an HK P30SK LEM V1. I carry it every day in a Mitch Rosen leather "Upper Limit" OWB.

I still shoot the VP9, for training and local matches.

It *is* kinda weird to have both a SFA pistol and a hammer fired LEM. Go figure. My thoughts are I will learn to shoot the VP9 for the next couple years, and continue to carry the SK.

At least until HK brings out the P30c. :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mrozowjj]

Everything I'd carry is SF. I just prefer them and tend to shoot them better. At least in a more speed oriented style of shooting (IDAP/USPSA) so I tend to think I'd shoot them better in a self defense.

[Malamute]

I prefer to shoot a hammer self loading pistol but tend to carry a striker fired one.

So far all the revolvers have hammers.

[HCM]

I carried Hammer guns most of my career. The only hammer guns currently authorized by my employer are all .40 caliber. The only 9mm's authorized at this time are Glocks.

If I could carry an LEM HK or TDA SIG in 9mm I might chose differently.

[Robinson]

Hammers.

[MGW]

I've tried really hard to like striker fired pistols. They just don't click with me. Most of that time was with Glocks but also tried 320's and M&P's. Out of all of them I liked the 320 the most.

I've looked for something I like better than TDA Sigs. My favorite carry gun is a 239. It's pretty close to being my favorite pistol to shoot too. I have a 229 that holds that spot though and now I'm working with a 226 as a comp and possible carry gun.

It all comes down to feel for me. I enjoy the way the DA trigger pull feels. Something about the mechanical feel of the entire process really captures my attention. May have something to do with shooting well tuned revolvers as a kid. I like the recoil impulse of steel guns better than plastic guns too.

[busykngt]

Sig P238 & Beretta PX4 Compact (9mm) are my main carries.
My G19 & XD9 are mainly home defense - in different rooms of the house.


Sent from my Apple thang using Tapatalk

[ReverendMeat]

I used to be a student of "Gun o' the Month," with a minor in "Carry Rotation" at the illustrious School of Derp and as such have carried just about everything at some point. Landed back on TDA because I like riding the hammer during holstering (especially after switching to AIWB) and with the exception of the PPQ, haven't found a SFA trigger I liked.

[LSP552]

My carry guns are a DA/SA SIG P239 and P226R in 9mm.

[TCFD273]

I grew up on Glocks and 1911's. Purchased my first DA/SA gun about 18 months ago. I've grown to love DA/SA, but can't seem to quit G19's.
My Beretta Brig Tac, and my G19 are the only 2 guns I can run 95%+ on Frank Garcia's dot drill. The G19 starts to lose out past 15yds though. That coupled with a Raven Eidolon holster makes it hard not to grab it every morning over a Beretta.

I plan on handling a PX4 Compact Carry at the NRA Show, if I like it I'll pick one up and put it through its paces.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duelist]

Hammer fired semiauto, TDA or DAO. I carried a concealed hammer 642 revolver for a long time, too.

Thumb on the back of the hammer for holstering, long smooth trigger pull for the first or all shots, etc.

Carry guns right now are a S&W 3913 and a Sig P290rs for when I need something smaller. Breaking in a Beretta 92A1.

[Totem Polar]

I had to vote "everything" because it's true. Between my weekly trips to two NPEs, and my commitment to get to the range each week as well, I find myself with anything from wheelies to a 1911 (just got a DW VBOB, so I have to take it to the range each trip) to one of my Glocks, to knives and impact weapons in my kit.

In all, though it pains me as an enthusiast to admit, it's hard to argue with the G19/26/43 triumvirate. For edc on my own time away from work or the range, it's an SFA I reach for.

[MattyD380]

Awesome thread.

My primary carry guns have been mainly Sigs for the past few years. My P239 still gets the most carry time. I also have carried a P245 and a P6. Also had an affair with an HK P2000SK LEM for a while. Realized I liked DA/SA better.

So yeah... hammers for me.

Recently, I've really gotten into Berettas. I've been "getting to know" my PX4 Compact Carry for the past few months, and the thing is simply amazing. I think it's time spring for a fancy AIWB holster and start carrying it regularly.

When I first started getting into guns 5 or 6 years ago, Sigs and HKs were the guns I thought were cool. And I found pretty quickly that I shot Sigs the best... waaay better than Glocks, M&Ps, and other striker fired guns. When I started trying Berettas and 3rd Gen Smiths, I realized I shot those pretty well too. So I'm all DA/SA at this point.

And when I learned enough to know what's "really goin' on" with partially cocked strikers and trigger dinguses, etc.... striker fired guns ceased to make sense to me from a safety standpoint. Personally, I feel they're SAO guns in disguise (some more so than others) and wouldn't carry one without some kind of a safety. YMMV.

[BehindBlueI's]

Sig TDA. I prefer the DA/SA and I like having a hammer I can thumb while holstering. I also prefer metal guns and grips that you can change with a screw instead of with a wood burning kit.

I'm not dogmatic, though, and recognize that striker fired guns are operated at high levels and safely by many, many shooters.

[SecondsCount]

Nothing wrong with striker, I like my VP9, but like others have stated, the hammer is nice to have for holstering safely so I carry a P2000 LEM.

[BillSWPA]

My primary carry is most often a Glock 26, and second most often a Glock 19. Reasons are a short, light consistent trigger pull for every shot, relative thinness and light weight as compared to firepower, and plenty of available sights and holsters.

My BUG and NPE gun is a Kel-Tec P3AT with a Crimson Trace LaserGuard. The reasons are quite similar to my reasons for choosing a Glock: thin, light weight, relatively light, consistent trigger, and easy to shoot well.

I occasionally carry a 1911, but not often.

I carry traditional IWB, in a pocket holster, or in a fanny pack while exercising. With these carry methods, I am not concerned about placing my thumb on a hammer during reholstering, although I do so when reholstering a 1911.

So, hammer fired verses striker fired really doesn't enter into my selection process. If the gun provides 100% reliability, ease of carry, and ease of shooting well, and reasonable firepower and stopping power, then it is what I want to carry.

[Sero Sed Serio]

I like the added safety when reholstering a hammer gun, and I find that the smooth trigger of a DA gun is easier to shoot well than the wall break of most striker guns.

[45dotACP]

I shot a lot of Glocks, played and still play with 1911s and ultimately didn't find that the Beretta 92 series was what I needed. Mostly because I was fairly invested in Glock, their mags, holsters, spare parts etc...And the company just builds loyalty what with GSSF certificates and a ton of different options available. The gen 4 guns have more or less become my go to pistols. I keep trying to find a different modern 9mm service pistol but I stopped trying. The Glock 19 is a heck of a good combo of capacity to size to utility.

I do shoot my 1911s in .45 at about the same level as my Glocks in 9mm...Better ergos, trigger, more practice, or a negligible difference between recoil control... Whatever it is, the 1911 just clicks with me. Maybe if I get a nice leather appendix holster for one...But til then, it's pretty much Glock.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[troydobe]

Travelled the path of 659 to 5906 both TDA to short spell with M&P to now DAO PX4. And fortunately never migrated from 9mm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LangdonTactical]

I am pretty sure everyone who knows me knows where I stand. I have shot and carried everything over the last 30 years of carrying a gun. My very first personal gun that I owned was a Browning High Power, after that a 1911 for several years. I grew up on the Beretta M9 in the Marine Corps, but many may not know that I was a "Glock Guy" back 20 years ago. I owned several different Glock 19s and 17s back in the day. Shot them hard for at least three years. So much so that I had a 19 that I broke a slide on, cracked on the right side of the ejection port, and I also broke off a rear frame rail.

It is hard to argue against the Glock platform with the fact that you can find spare parts at almost any gun store in the world. You can also detail strip it with a nail and anything that you can use as a light hammer. But I live in a first world country, so that argument is not going to hold much water for me.

It has really been my years as a firearms instructor, 30 years of studying gunfighting, and watching people under stress trying to run a handgun that has lead me to be an advocate of the hammer fired DA/SA firearm. One common thread that has always been there over the years is that people put their finger on the trigger when they are not supposed to. Even people with a lot of training that should know better and should be able to keep their finger straight end up letting that finger get inside the trigger guard under stress. The length of the first shot on the TDA platform keeps people out of trouble and keeps other people from getting shot that don't need to be shot.

Also, having shot a TDA gun really hard for many years, I now find that first DA shot to be an advantage over single action or striker fired guns. I can be much more aggressive to that first shot at very close range and feel that I am faster on the first shot because of that. The really funny thing is, if I am trying to shoot groups at distance, I almost always will shoot tighter groups if I shoot DAO and decock the gun for every shot.

At this point, I am fully committed to the TDA gun. I just think it is the best platform for both safety and shootablity.

[LearnedHat]

I am pretty sure everyone who knows me knows where I stand. I have shot and carried everything over the last 30 years of carrying a gun. My very first personal gun that I owned was a Browning High Power, after that a 1911 for several years. I grew up on the Beretta M9 in the Marine Corps, but many may not know that I was a "Glock Guy" back 20 years ago. I owned several different Glock 19s and 17s back in the day. Shot them hard for at least three years. So much so that I had a 19 that I broke a slide on, cracked on the right side of the ejection port, and I also broke off a rear frame rail.

It is hard to argue against the Glock platform with the fact that you can find spare parts at almost any gun store in the world. You can also detail strip it with a nail and anything that you can use as a light hammer. But I live in a first world country, so that argument is not going to hold much water for me.

It has really been my years as a firearms instructor, 30 years of studying gunfighting, and watching people under stress trying to run a handgun that has lead me to be an advocate of the hammer fired DA/SA firearm. One common thread that has always been there over the years is that people put their finger on the trigger when they are not supposed to. Even people with a lot of training that should know better and should be able to keep their finger straight end up letting that finger get inside the trigger guard under stress. The length of the first shot on the TDA platform keeps people out of trouble and keeps other people from getting shot that don't need to be shot.

Also, having shot a TDA gun really hard for many years, I now find that first DA shot to be an advantage over single action or striker fired guns. I can be much more aggressive to that first shot at very close range and feel that I am faster on the first shot because of that. The really funny thing is, if I am trying to shoot groups at distance, I almost always will shoot tighter groups if I shoot DAO and decock the gun for every shot.

At this point, I am fully committed to the TDA gun. I just think it is the best platform for both safety and shootablity.

Is it the length or the increased force required?

[Hambo]

I carried Teutonic precision striker fired pistols for years, but since the P7 was discontinued I went TDA and never looked back.

[LangdonTactical]

Is it the length or the increased force required?

I would say that it is both, but the weight without the length will not really help many of the issues that happen. Over a short distance, an adult male can "flinch" through a 25lb trigger pull. I also several cops that have pulled their Beretta to the half cock position and stopped pulling the trigger for the right reasons. Had they had a striker fired gun in their hand's things would have turned out differently.

I also don't think you need a 12lb DA to keep you out of trouble. I would say a long 6 to 8 pounds is plenty heavy and easy to shoot well.

I really wish I could get the DA gun manufactures to spend a little money to help develop better DA/SA triggers.

[RoyGBiv]

AIWB = Hammer or Gadget.

YMMV. EI-EI-O

[JHC]

I carried hammer guns for many many years before Glocks for many many years. Now I'm easing back to 1911s and that is just because I want to shoot 1911s a lot now and I may as well carry what I'm shooting a lot.

But I went all striker for a long time because it was economical to build a small armory of them. That's about it. They shot swell.

I'm not particularly hammer vs striker focused. If something shoots accurately and reliably, I'm good.

[JAD]

I've not found a DA I can shoot well, I think because of small hands. I carry a G17 in the winter and a 1911 in the summer. I wouldn't carry a Glock without an SCD. The EDCx9 may be a Glock killer for me because it would be a year round gun.

[HCountyGuy]

I carry a P229R in DA/SA for reasons which have been gone over in here already. Thumbing the hammer on reholster, as well as the longer, heavier first shot.

I feel practicing with a TDA has helped make me a better shooter overall, regardless of which gun I pick up. I'd say it forces one to be more aware of how they pull the trigger and really drives home developing a smooth pull.

With the "hold-outs" entering the striker-fired market, I would guess we'll see far fewer hammer guns carried. With the exception of the 1911, because cool guy factor and all.

[Dismas316]

Been a sig da/sa guy but once I tired out the 320 that was the beginning of the end. All the other SF guns were ok. The versatility of the modularity has made the transition easy. I go between the sc/c and now that I have incorporated the RX into the mix it doesn't look like I'm changing back.

I have also found that I would spend a lot of time in general with practicing the da only. I wanted make sure I was as consistent as possible with both da/sa but now I have a better range session with a more efficient training regiment given my time constraints. My shooting/range time just seems more productive now.

[Guinnessman]

15819

My first handgun was a Sig 229. Several HK's followed, and DA/SA was my preferred mode of carry at the time. From 2009 to 2014 I primarily carried and shot Glocks. I love Glock for their simplicity, availability of sights, and aftermarket parts. For the most part, they are tough and reliable weapons. After encountering some BTF from a Gen 3 and 4, I still had faith in Glocks, but was frustrated by a lack of perfection. I had also just bought my first AIWB holster.

Then a little birdie let me know about a sale on V1 P30's. I missed having a P30 around and wanted one in LEM. It was the impulse buy that led to more HK's in LEM. Daryl's article on the LEM as a street trigger, combined with the AIWB carry thread was enough to convince me to return to a hammer for carry. The rest is history.

[Larry Sellers]

I was of the "both" camp until recently. I've explored the both options heavily, with a CZ-P07 and Glocks. For me it comes down to a simplicity standpoint in that I can buy a glock 17,19 or 26 and mags, sights and holsters I already have will work and are plentiful. All my glocks save for the 43 have a SCD on them, it adds that piece of mind for me upon reholstering. Down the road when funds allow as well as time I may explore going to a full DA/SA transition, but as for now the glocks fill the role.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Personally I prefer hammers for the following reasons:
-I feel much safer carrying a manual safety or DA first shot gun
-I can shoot a hammer in SA mode much better than any striker I've tried
-I like to do some long range shooting with handguns, and even with a highly modified trigger I could not get consistent results with a Glock at longer ranges
-I feel more connected to hammers as machines: I can see the hammer moving, I understand how the firing pin block works and how to check it, I understand how the safety notch works and how to check it. I can remove the slide and work the trigger to watch everything work together. I'm not in danger of eliminating the drop safety if I want to lighten the trigger pull.

I've been carrying a CZ P07 every day in the winter and fall. Before that I carried a P938, which I'll likely switch back to on hot days. Occasionally I carry a full size 10mm Witness

Having said all that, I do respect strikers for their lower number of parts, looser tolerances while maintaining accuracy, and lower bore axis. I'm hoping the Hudson H9 will turn out to be my dream gun and bring me over to strikers.

[Soggy]

AIWB = Hammer or Gadget.

YMMV. EI-EI-O

My Mileage does vary a little: I agree with the above, but think the Shield with safety is also viable for AIWB, and I like the size. The safety covers the most likely failure mode. Just have to practice swiping it off on the draw.

[MSparks909]

Thanks for all the replies thus far. I'm honestly pretty surprised at the number of "Yes" voted compared to "No" votes. Granted, this forum is far different than most and represents an extremely small percentage of gun owners (in both mindset and skill set), but it is still interesting to me. Keep the comments coming!

[spinmove_]

Currently carry a G19 when I can (work in a NPE) and when I'm not carrying that I carry an M&P Shield.

I'm a classic SIG fan and still own an SP2022. Never owned a Beretta, but wouldn't mind having at the very least a 92 of some flavor in the future.

Right now making a switch from Glock to anything TDA just simply doesn't make logistical sense. I can shoot a G19 about as well as I can shoot anything else. Already have parts, mags, other support equipment all for it.

If I was starting out fresh all over again, I'd probably consider either a PX4c or P-07. It's really really hard to argue against a G19 though.

IIRC the PX4 platform doesn't lend itself to being a very good RDS host. Seeing as that's where the future is, that makes that a somewhat tough sell. The P-07 should be fine in that regard. The mags for that guy aren't exactly super cost effective though.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Glockman9mm]

G19 is biggest gun I can comfortably conceal in all seasons. Carry at 3 o'clock in a bladetech Iwb. I shoot my Sig 226 enhanced elite better in single action at longer range, but that gun just can't be concealed on me in summer. At defensive ranges the G19 is perfect for me. Also the G19 has the best corrosion resistance for against body carry. Holsters all have full sweat guards but had rust issues on my Shield mag button and top rear of slide.

[CCT125US]

Currently a USP9c v7 LEM for reasons already mentioned. Went back to hammer guns in 2011.

[critter]

At this point, I'm pretty much all in for strikers though it did take quite some time to get there. I've carried most everything at one time or another save for a single action revolver or a muzzle loader. if it goes 'bang' reliably, and I can shoot it well, I'm pretty comfortable carrying it even if it requires an out of fashion shoulder holster to conceal well on my smallish frame. I do now prefer striker fired pistols for daily carry. Mine are PPS's (original versions) in either 9 or .40 (or a G42 in specific circumstances -- come on Gadget people :cool: ). I'd actually prefer a .357 SIG for EDC (debatable reasons, but primarily because I just dig it) but haven't found anyone who makes a conversion barrel for the PPS .40 to test out, and thus far the PPS is exactly ME for carry. I like that particular weapon because it's very easy to conceal, lightweight and comfortable to carry, easy to control and shoot extremely well even in .40, has an excellent, consistent trigger, euro style mag release I can operate with trigger finger and avoid having to shift my grip, and lastly, thumbing the striker indicator works similarly to thumbing the hammer.

What I don't like about it are the ridiculous vampire fangs on the mags to protect the ridiculous back strap decocker/disconnect (which, according to Walther, was designed into the pistol for cleaning, removing the need for the trigger pull).

ETA: Damn, forgot the on topic thread point -- if for some reason my PPS's went tits up, were stolen, or lost, whatever, I'd pretty happily return to carrying my 'hammer' SIG P239.

[breakingtime91]

Striker as soon as the gadget came out. I used to carry a lem and sometimes become curious with it again. Problem is the Glock shoots well for me, is easy to maintain, and easier for me to stay proficient on.

[StraitR]

Started out with 1911's and DA/SA guns in the mid 90's. In 2005 I went all Glock and carried them for the next 10 years. In 2015 I had the urge to go hammer again, for many of the same reasons mentioned by others, so I experimented with DA/SA and LEM for eight months before going back to 1911.

[BillSWPA]

I really wish I could get the DA gun manufactures to spend a little money to help develop better DA/SA triggers.

The best DA/SA trigger I have ever felt was on a rental Beretta Elite II. It was lighter than most DA/SA triggers, but certainly not all of them. However, the lighter ones I have felt were annoyingly inconsistent during the trigger squeeze, and did not help my accuracy. The trigger on the Elite II was reasonably light (but not quite light enough for my wife to like it), very consistent, and clean breaking. Perhaps that would be a good starting point for the research.

[Rex G]

Hammers! I figure Thor and Charles Martel were onto something. ;)

Actually, I could have selected the "carry anything" option. (I do NOT have a "rotation!" I have options.)

For reference, I am "qual'ed" at work with G19 and 1911 duty pistols, and G34 and G26 pistols for "off-duty/back-up." (I own all of them.) The absence of revolvers on the qual list simply means I am not current; at least one revolver with be back on my qual list before our road trip in June.

I may soon reduce the number of Glocks, as I may concentrate on just a few G19 pistols, perhaps keeping a G17 to dabble with Aimpoint Micro optics, on an ALG 6-Second Mount. A G19 or G26 is a decent close-range back-up for a 1911 or .357 sixgun. ;)

[SSGN_Doc]

I'm in transitional period. I started out with a Beretta 92FS as my first autoloader. Have used the M9 in the Navy for 23 years. I happened into a Glock 17 at a bargain price and began running it in competitions and liked the utter simplicity of it. Then added a G19 and G26 for my primary carry guns.

I started adding other service pistols to my collection, just out a desire to be familiar with some of the iconic service pistols around. CZs and Sigs got me back into appreciating the traditional DA pistol again. In exploring good options for CC I was looking into the CZ P07, Beretta PX4 compact, Walther P99AS (Why not look at an oddball DA/SA and striker fired pistol with a decocker, just as the manufacturer discontinues it?). I found many references to Ernest Langdon and the PX4 compact, and kind of headed back to my Beretta roots.

So, now I may be transitioning away from my Glocks back to Beretta or another DA/SA Compact pistol.

When I went with Glock it was mostly about simplicity, reliability, size and weight. They have a reputation as being a "block", but they are actually pretty thin overall as a double stack handgun, and free of large protruding levers and controls. At the time there weren't a ton of options for a polymer framed, compact DA/SA hammer fired pistol. Now that we got past 2010, there are more options in that niche.

Ernest Langdon brought attention to the Beretta Storm compact option, and the fact that slimmer controls were available, which was my major complaint on the Compact Storm. The act that the storm is pretty customizable on a "home armorer" level is what got me to go that direction. The CZ P07 was running really close with companies in existence, like Cajun Gun Works and CZ Custom, though they have not been as heavy on the polymer pistol parts and customizations.

So, my shift back toward the Beretta was partly a returning closer to where I started.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I carry and shoot Glocks or a 1911 (J frames not relevant). I am comfortable with each. Strikers don't bother me, I shot a 19 since they came out. Now to stir the pot, I post this from the latest issue of SWAT which had a reprint of a 2010 article by Pat Rogers on carrying a handgun.


On the DA gun, the hammer is cocked by the trigger (for conventional DA) on the first shot only. Successive shots are SA only. On a Double-Action-Only (DAO) gun, the trigger cocks the gun for every shot. This results in a long and heavy trigger press.

As many have stated before me, the DA pistol is the per*fect solution to a non-existent problem. The first trigger press requires one type of grip. The second and additional shots are SA and require a different trigger press and grip. Some law enforcement agencies and departments mandate DA guns because they neither trust nor provide appropriate training for their people.
Some shooters can make the DA gun work well. It is gen*erally a more difficult trigger to master, and while trigger control is not the only technique necessary, it is the single most important mechanical skill to be mastered.

If you have a choice, avoid the DA pistol like the plague

[breakingtime91]

I carry and shoot Glocks or a 1911 (J frames not relevant). I am comfortable with each. Strikers don't bother me, I shot a 19 since they came out. Now to stir the pot, I post this from the latest issue of SWAT which had a reprint of a 2010 article by Pat Rogers on carrying a handgun.

:eek: I am going to get the pop corn.

[Peally]

They need a different grip?

[LearnedHat]

I carry and shoot Glocks or a 1911 (J frames not relevant). I am comfortable with each. Strikers don't bother me, I shot a 19 since they came out. Now to stir the pot, I post this from the latest issue of SWAT which had a reprint of a 2010 article by Pat Rogers on carrying a handgun.


"The first trigger press requires one kind of grip" ???

[Larry Sellers]

"The first trigger press requires one kind of grip" ???

Hope it's not a kung-fu grip....

Point to ponder....Does anyone see a connection between the instructors who compete heavily and their affinity for DA/SA pistols? This is not a dig or off color comment, merely an observation. I notice EL and Mike Pannone are proponents of competition and they are DA/SA guys. The other instructors that I've trained with in the past Defoor, Pat Mac etc are not competition shooters and stick to the SFA or in Pat Mac's case SFA and a few choice 1911's.

Again, just food for thought not trying to start WW3

[Paltares8]

I carry and prefer TDA for a lot of reasons. Mostly everything that other people mentioned. I can shoot a striker fired fine and own one, but I shoot my P07 better and enjoy it more. Also, not growing up around guns at all, and only knowing what I knew from movies and documentaries and the like, to me guns are just supposed to have hammers. SFAs just seem like they're missing something to me I guess. Can't knock 'em though. I do wish that some folks gave TDAs a chance and didn't balk at the thought of 2 different trigger pulls.

[JBP55]

Striker Fired.

[11B10]

15819

My first handgun was a Sig 229. Several HK's followed, and DA/SA was my preferred mode of carry at the time. From 2009 to 2014 I primarily carried and shot Glocks. I love Glock for their simplicity, availability of sights, and aftermarket parts. For the most part, they are tough and reliable weapons. After encountering some BTF from a Gen 3 and 4, I still had faith in Glocks, but was frustrated by a lack of perfection. I had also just bought my first AIWB holster.

Then a little birdie let me know about a sale on V1 P30's. I missed having a P30 around and wanted one in LEM. It was the impulse buy that led to more HK's in LEM. Daryl's article on the LEM as a street trigger, combined with the AIWB carry thread was enough to convince me to return to a hammer for carry. The rest is history.



What got my attention was the strength of DB's urge to carry the P30SK. Until then, I had nothing but SF. After reading DB'S post, then feeling that same enthusiasm in Rich_Jenkins's (and others) words, I had to find out. All I can say is: "Come on in, the Kool Aid is fine." I know my reasons sound emotional, but it's also an extremely smart choice for all the right reasons already stated.

[Guinnessman]

What got my attention was the strength of DB's urge to carry the P30SK. Until then, I had nothing but SF. After reading DB'S post, then feeling that same enthusiasm in Rich_Jenkins's (and others) words, I had to find out. All I can say is: "Come on in, the Kool Aid is fine." I know my reasons sound emotional, but it's also an extremely smart choice for all the right reasons already stated.

I am still amazed at how well the P30sk shoots! Sorry for the thread drift.:cool:

[StraitR]

Pat Rogers is, IMO, above reproach. One, for his service and everything he's done for this country, including the contributions to the firearm and training industries. And two, because he's not here to defend himself. May he RIP.

It's perfectly ok to disagree with his quoted words, from my few interactions with him on LF, I believe he would thoroughly enjoy the conversation, but please be respectful in the words you chose.

[MSparks909]

Hope it's not a kung-fu grip....

Point to ponder....Does anyone see a connection between the instructors who compete heavily and their affinity for DA/SA pistols? This is not a dig or off color comment, merely an observation. I notice EL and Mike Pannone are proponents of competition and they are DA/SA guys. The other instructors that I've trained with in the past Defoor, Pat Mac etc are not competition shooters and stick to the SFA or in Pat Mac's case SFA and a few choice 1911's.

Again, just food for thought not trying to start WW3

Both Langdon and Pannone articulate why they prefer DA/SA triggers for defensive purposes. The long DA pull is a better people management trigger if you point guns at people a lot (Police/LE). Gives you an extra safety margin if your finger happens to be on the trigger and the increased trigger travel length allows you to come off the trigger quickly if the situation changes and you decide not to shoot. In Darryl Bolke's recent interview (Mindset section), he states that he's seen several officers with their guns on half cock from coming off the trigger when the altercation changed. The short travel of a striker fired gun is far less condusive to finger checking and the length is not near as forgiving to changing your mind mid-trigger press.

I don't think competition plays a big role in the argument of TDA vs striker guns. Many people shoot both at an extremely high level. It just all boils down to individual preferences. I wouldn't ever say someone is "wrong" for choosing a specific weapon type. I just want them to be able to articulate "why" they choose it over other options. Hence why I started this thread.

[breakingtime91]

Both Langdon and Pannone articulate why they prefer DA/SA triggers for defensive purposes. The long DA pull is a better people management trigger if you point guns at people a lot (Police/LE). Gives you an extra safety margin if your finger happens to be on the trigger and the increased trigger travel length allows you to come off the trigger quickly if the situation changes and you decide not to shoot. In Darryl Bolke'a recent interview (Mindset section), he states that he's seen several officers with their guns on half cock from coming off the trigger when the altercation changed. The short travel of a striker fired gun is far less condusive to finger checking and the length is not near as conducive to changing your mind mid-trigger press.

I don't think competition plays a big role in the argument of TDA vs striker guns. Many people shoot both at an extremely high level. It just all boils down to individual preferences. I wouldn't ever say someone is "wrong" for choosing a specific weapon type. I just want them to be able to articulate "why" they choose it over other options. Hence why I started this thread.

Playing off of that Darryl also said that he witnessed police officers fail to decock after a shooting... so how do we weigh that against the easier to manage people with trigger? Both trigger checking and failing to decock are training issues, both with possibly bad outcomes. I think others have said that they stopped their glock trigger press mid pull as well so maybe it isn't as big of an issue as we make?

[Larry Sellers]

To that point, I just trained with Kyle Defoor. He drove home the point that when you have to pass over a "friendly" or "hostage" with your weapon you have to go long finger on the frame. If you do so with a DA/SA gun, you then in turn are pointing a SA weapon (after firing the first D/A shot) at the hostage while transitioning to the next target even though you go long finger. You are not afforded the same safeties that the gun has while it is in DA. The thought there is that you would have to decock while transitioning to the other target, opposed to the SFA gun where you take your finger off the trigger and all the safeties are active.

I think this boils down to personal choice, again this not to start the "well I trained with him and he said" conversation. Just merely sharing something I learned 2 weeks ago which I thought was interesting.

[LSP552]

Playing off of that Darryl also said that he witnessed police officers fail to decock after a shooting... so how do we weigh that against the easier to manage people with trigger? Both trigger checking and failing to decock are training issues, both with possibly bad outcomes. I think others have said that they stopped their glock trigger press mid pull as well so maybe it isn't as big of an issue as we make?

The decocking issue can be solved by moving the decocking lever EVERY time you bring the gun back to ready. It a part of bringing the gun off target, live OR dry fire. Lots of people don't do this during dry fire and this sets them up for failing to decock.

Decocking should be ingrained with taking the finger off the trigger and placing it in your register position. Finger off the trigger and decock as the weapon comes off target and back to ready. IMO, dry firing without moving the decocking lever is one of the biggest reasons you see people fail to decock under stress. This needs to be an auto pilot situation. And its so easily corrected if you know how to teach the DA/SA, which most instructors really don't.

I would very respectfully disagree with the Pat Rogers quote. When I read different grips for DA and SA then I stop listening about that particular segment. That's assuming its an accurate quote. I would add that the NY and NY+ Glocks exist exactly because management doesn't trust their officers or provide adequate training. That's not a DA/SA issue, but poor management regardless of the issue weapon.

[LangdonTactical]

Playing off of that Darryl also said that he witnessed police officers fail to decock after a shooting... so how do we weigh that against the easier to manage people with trigger? Both trigger checking and failing to decock are training issues, both with possibly bad outcomes. I think others have said that they stopped their glock trigger press mid pull as well so maybe it isn't as big of an issue as we make?

Well, I would say that holstering a TDA gun that is cocked is no different than holstering many of the SFA guns on the market. So.......?

The only reason people get amped up about it is that they can see that the hammer is cocked. How is that different than a say an M&P or the 320?

[breakingtime91]

The decocking issue can be solved by moving the decocking lever EVERY time you bring the gun back to ready. It a part of bringing the gun off target, live OR dry fire. Lots of people don't do this during dry fire and this sets them up for failing to decock.

Decocking should be ingrained with taking the finger off the trigger and placing it in your register position. Finger off the trigger and decock as the weapon comes off target and back to ready. IMO, dry firing without moving the decocking lever is one of the biggest reasons you see people fail to decock under stress. This needs to be an auto pilot situation. And its so easily corrected if you know how to teach the DA/SA, which most instructors really don't.

I would very respectfully disagree with the Pat Rogers quote. When I read different grips for DA and SA then I stop listening about that particular segment. That's assuming its an accurate quote. I would add that the NY and NY+ Glocks exist exactly because management doesn't trust their officers or provide adequate training. That's not a DA/SA issue, but poor management regardless of the issue weapon.

I agree with everything you said about decocking, I was just pointing out that its something that has been said. If we are always pointing at trigger checking as this evil talisman that can never be stopped (train your people to have a hard register in the ejection port), then we need to point out that people under stress seem to fail to decock the same as they fail to not trigger check. Both are bad, are they equally as bad? Idk each of us needs to make that decision ourselves.

[breakingtime91]

Well, I would say that holstering a TDA gun that is cocked is no different than holstering many of the SFA guns on the market. So.......?

The only reason people get amped up about it is that they can see that the hammer is cocked. How is that different than a say an M&P or the 320?

Are the safeties on a DA/SA gun still in place when the gun is cocked or only while in DA? I am asking because I am under the impression that they are not. Also, I don't carry either of those striker guns so I would not know. I will say that the SA trigger on my 92a1 was much easier to work then a glock trigger (weight and distance).. so idk.

[LSP552]

To that point, I just trained with Kyle Defoor. He drove home the point that when you have to pass over a "friendly" or "hostage" with your weapon you have to go long finger on the frame. If you do so with a DA/SA gun, you then in turn are pointing a SA weapon (after firing the first D/A shot) at the hostage while transitioning to the next target even though you go long finger. You are not afforded the same safeties that the gun has while it is in DA. The thought there is that you would have to decock while transitioning to the other target, opposed to the SFA gun where you take your finger off the trigger and all the safeties are active.

I think this boils down to personal choice, again this not to start the "well I trained with him and he said" conversation. Just merely sharing something I learned 2 weeks ago which I thought was interesting.

The safeties of a SIG are still working with the hammer cocked until you pull the trigger. I will agree that if you put your finger on the trigger of a SIG in SA mode, its easier to make the noise than on a Glock. But since length of pull is more a factor than weight, IMO its probably not much of a practical difference between a TDA and Glock. The real answer is to not cross the muzzle over anyone you are not willing to put a bullet in. That gets lost a lot in the need for speedy transitions between targets and when you mix no-shoots in with shoots. IMO, violating a safety rule isn't ever a good thing.

[LSP552]

Are the safeties on a DA/SA gun still in place when the gun is cocked or only while in DA? I am asking because I am under the impression that they are not. Also, I don't carry either of those striker guns so I would not know. I will say that the SA trigger on my 92a1 was much easier to work then a glock trigger (weight and distance).. so idk.


With a SIG, you still have to press the trigger to make the big noise. There is a mechanical block to the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

[breakingtime91]

With a SIG, you still have to press the trigger to make the big noise. There is a mechanical block to the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

Good to know, thank you. I will say that I wasn't sure, same that I pointed out in my post to Mr. Langdon

[MSparks909]

To that point, I just trained with Kyle Defoor. He drove home the point that when you have to pass over a "friendly" or "hostage" with your weapon you have to go long finger on the frame. If you do so with a DA/SA gun, you then in turn are pointing a SA weapon (after firing the first D/A shot) at the hostage while transitioning to the next target even though you go long finger. You are not afforded the same safeties that the gun has while it is in DA.

I disagree. How is muzzling someone with a cocked DA/SA pistol any different than a P320, VP9, PPQ, the new P10C? All have short takeups, a light trigger pull and I believe all of the above have fully tensioned strikers, aka cocked (maybe not the P320 but you get my point). The firing pin safety is still active on my cocked TDA Beretta, Sig or HK. I still have takeup before the wall. So really, how is it different?

[MSparks909]

With a SIG, you still have to press the trigger to make the big noise. There is a mechanical block to the firing pin unless the trigger is pulled.

Same with a Beretta or HK. I don't own a CZ but I imagine they have firing pin safeties as well.

[Larry Sellers]

I disagree. How is muzzling someone with a cocked DA/SA pistol any different than a P320, VP9, PPQ, the new P10C? All have short takeups, a light trigger pull and some have fully tensioned strikers, aka cocked (maybe not the P320 but you get my point). The firing pin safety is still active on my cocked TDA Beretta, Sig or HK. I still have takeup before the wall. So really, how is it different?
You would Have to ask him. Again just sharing what I learned a few weeks ago.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[MSparks909]

You would Have to ask him. Again just sharing what I learned a few weeks ago.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

That wasn't aimed at you specifically; I'm just thinking out loud. Glocks don't have a fully tensioned striker. I know the VP9 and PPQ definitely do. Both have a short takeup and a 4-5# break. The SA on my M9A3 is 4.5 pounds. Just food for thought.

[LangdonTactical]

Are the safeties on a DA/SA gun still in place when the gun is cocked or only while in DA? I am asking because I am under the impression that they are not. Also, I don't carry either of those striker guns so I would not know. I will say that the SA trigger on my 92a1 was much easier to work then a glock trigger (weight and distance).. so idk.

Any modern DA/SA gun has a firing pin block in place. The Beretta and CZ handguns also have a half cock notch as well. So you still have to pull the trigger to make it go bang.

[breakingtime91]

That wasn't aimed at you specifically; I'm just thinking out loud. Glocks don't have a fully tensioned striker. I know the VP9 and PPQ definitely do. Both have a short takeup and a 4-5# break. The SA on my M9A3 is 4.5 pounds. Just food for thought.

Completely agree on new striker guns, those give me a bad feeling. Only reason I even carry a SFA is because Glocks now have this wonderful thing called a gadget available. My gen 4 is a 6.5 trigger with a nice wall that is predictable. I wouldn't carry any of the new strikers without a manual safety.

[breakingtime91]

Any modern DA/SA gun has a firing pin block in place. The Beretta and CZ handguns also have a half cock notch as well. So you still have to pull the trigger to make it go bang.

good to know thank you. I completely agree about fully tensioned strikers and mostly strikers in general. I carried a LEM for a long time and moved away from that when the gadget released.

[LangdonTactical]

Same with a Beretta or HK. I don't own a CZ but I imagine they have firing pin safeties as well.

This ^^^

Older CZs or ones with competition trigger set ups may not have a FP Block. Kind of like most competition 1911s.

[Paul Sharp]

I started on a hammer pistol, carried Glocks and M&Ps over the years, and over the last few years have returned to hammer fired guns as a primary carry pistol.

After working with the Gadget there is no way I would carry a SFA pistol now without a Gadget installed.

[JAD]

There's a thread on muzzling no shoots. https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16277-To-muzzle-or-not-to-muzzle

[RJ]

:eek: I am going to get the pop corn.

Hahaha seriously. I'll just be here with my P30SK LEM.

:cool:

On topic: I love threads like this where people chime in with educated perspectives. It really helps a noob like me, to just sit here and pick up knowledge.

[Clusterfrack]

On the same token, if you carry a striker fired gun, regardless of brand, I'd also like to hear why as opposed to a DA/SA or 1911.

Here's my story in a nutshell.

I started out carrying and competing with 1911s, and came to distrust them (I found them not sufficiently reliable). I moved to Glock as a standard platform for competition and carry, and could be happy with Glocks as my only type of handgun. As I became more serious in USPSA, and set my sights on making GM, I wanted anything that could give me an edge. I tried SA/DA guns (CZ/Tanfo) but they do not fit my hands. The Sig p320 works really well for me--even better than a Glock--and took me to M class in Production. I expect I'll still be shooting the p320 when I make GM.

I think there's a significant advantage to carrying a similar gun that I shoot in competition, so I carry a p320c. But, I've found I can switch back to a Glock without any difficulty. SA/DA guns... not so much.

[StraitR]

A cocked DA/SA gun is similar to a SFA. The added safety layer provided by the first DA pull is null if the decocker is not used accordingly. The same can be said for SA guns and manual safeties. No long and heavy(ish) first DA pull, no decocker, no manual safeties to manipulate, no long LEM/DAO pull... all make SFA guns simple to operate, and thus a popular choice. All that said, the disadvantages of each are obvious, so be mindful of them, and make your choice.

[Nephrology]

I carry striker pistols because they're what I started with, and am financially heavily invested in (Glocks). I can't really see what a pistol with a different trigger system would do for me right now given how much of a pinch I feel on my free time and money (the former more than the latter). I would want substantial money to dedicate towards buying into + retraining on a different family of pistols (duplicates of the gun + sights + misc extra parts + spare mags + holsters) and then the opportunity cost of the ammo I would burn learning the system.

One day, maybe. The appeal is there.

[YVK]

Somehow I don't give a damn what magical force makes my gats go boom. Been carrying hammers for 6 years, HKs and now PX4CC, and if tomorrow for whatever reason I decided to carry a striker, assuming it meets my requirements, it will not create as much as a blip on my "things to worry about" radar.

[Sauer Koch]

I carry either a Sig 226, or M11 A-1. My wife carries an M11 A-1 also, and prefers the weight/length of the DA pull as her safety, so that she doesn't have to work a manual safety; same for me.

A great thread!

[taadski]

I think there's a significant advantage to carrying a similar gun that I shoot in competition, so I carry a p320c. But, I've found I can switch back to a Glock without any difficulty. SA/DA guns... not so much.

I thought you'd posted that you were carrying a 19 the other month. Did you go back to the 320 as an EDC pistol? Just curious.


Re the current thread digression, I (still) think it's somewhat amusing folks are trying to draw a significant distinction between striker triggers and a stock DA/SA pistol in SA. They're both (relatively) lightweight, short throw triggers that are quite likely to go bang if they're trigger checked under stress. The rationale that a Glock is somehow way safer than a Beretta (just an example) in SA is silly, IMO.

Re the OP's questions, I shoot DA/SA pistols predominantly b/c I have to carry one for work. But aside from that, I've grown to very much appreciate being able to be more aggressive on the trigger in presentation. I like the little bit of latitude I might get with the DA if I fuck up when startled or while holding Joe-shit-bird at gunpoint. And I still have an extremely versatile and shootable pistol (with a soul :p) that I shoot as well or better than any of the examples of striker fired pistols I've dabbled with over the years. Anyway, just 2 cents from where I'm sitting currently.


t

[Sigfan26]

I shoot and carry both (and have flip flopped for about 10 years). I always make sure and take one of each to the range to (attempt to) maintain proficiency. Finding time is the hard pet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[breakingtime91]

I thought you'd posted that you were carrying a 19 the other month. Did you go back to the 320 as an EDC pistol? Just curious.


Re the current thread digression, I (still) think it's somewhat amusing folks are trying to draw a significant distinction between striker triggers and a stock DA/SA pistol in SA. They're both (relatively) lightweight, short throw triggers that are quite likely to go bang if they're trigger checked under stress. The rationale that a Glock is somehow way safer than a Beretta (just an example) in SA is silly, IMO.

Re the OP's questions, I shoot DA/SA pistols predominantly b/c I have to carry one for work. But aside from that, I've grown to very much appreciate being able to be more aggressive on the trigger in presentation. I like the little bit of latitude I might get with the DA if I fuck up when startled or while holding Joe-shit-bird at gunpoint. And I still have an extremely versatile and shootable pistol (with a soul :p) that I shoot as well or better than any of the examples of striker fired pistols I've dabbled with over the years. Anyway, just 2 cents from where I'm sitting currently.


t

How is it silly? A beretta in sa has a shorter throw and less of a wall than a stock glock trigger. I guess this is where subjectivity comes in because that statement seems pretty silly to me

[Clusterfrack]

I thought you'd posted that you were carrying a 19 the other month. Did you go back to the 320 as an EDC pistol? Just curious.


Thanks to a JMCK AIWB 2.0, I can now carry a 320c without printing under a trim shirt!

[jwperry]

I carry a TDA because my kids lack the physical strength to pull the DA trigger. No, I don't leave my guns laying around for them to play with. No I don't leave loaded guns around period.

I wish my preferred TDA guns were as affordable as a comparible SFA. I'm not familiar with the pricing on CZ or Beretta, but the price delta for an Hk P-Series or Sig classic P-Series vs the same brand SFA counterparts makes them very appealing.

[breakingtime91]

I carry a TDA because my kids lack the physical strength to pull the DA trigger. No, I don't leave my guns laying around for them to play with. No I don't leave loaded guns around period.

I wish my preferred TDA guns were as affordable as a comparible SFA. I'm not familiar with the pricing on CZ or Beretta, but the price delta for an Hk P-Series or Sig classic P-Series vs the same brand SFA counterparts makes them very appealing.

You would be surprised what kids can do. My son who is 8 months old can grip the shit out of stuff and his little fingers can fit into anything. If we are talking what might be the "safest" gun if u mess up arounds kids would be a 1911. Stout manual thumb safety that they would have to figure out plus depressing a grip safety. Just saying

[HopetonBrown]

Defoor, Pat Mac etc are not competition shooters and stick to the SFA



Yeah, DeFoor said he didn't see the need for hammer fired guns anymore.

[That Guy]

I prefer a hammer fired gun. While I don't do that AIWB thing, I find the extra safety margin during reholstering beneficial anyway - I don't want to shoot myself in any part of my body. Also, should availability of decent quality ammunition drop to the point I'm limited to shooting stuff like Barnaul, a hammer gun should ignite extra hard primers more reliably.

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[Kennydale]

I am such a STRIKER fired snob! Someday I'll get a Beretta Px4 (G model), HK P30 V3 or a CZ P09.

[taadski]

How is it silly? A beretta in sa has a shorter throw and less of a wall than a stock glock trigger. I guess this is where subjectivity comes in because that statement seems pretty silly to me

Silly, as I stated in the post you quoted, because the difference in both travel AND weight between the two is negligible in a practical sense. Is there a small difference between the two on paper? In my own personal examples? Yep. A SMALL one. Is the difference between the two worthy of a different level of care and discretion? I don’t think so.

The fact of the matter is the modern striker fired pistols, to include the Glock, are more similar to a SA trigger (again in a practical sense) than they are any other action type. By your own admission below, one would think you seem to feel similarly, no?


Completely agree on new striker guns, those give me a bad feeling. Only reason I even carry a SFA is because Glocks now have this wonderful thing called a gadget available. My gen 4 is a 6.5 trigger with a nice wall that is predictable. I wouldn't carry any of the new strikers without a manual safety.

[taadski]

Thanks to a JMCK AIWB 2.0, I can now carry a 320c without printing under a trim shirt!

Very nice! 👍🏻

[LangdonTactical]

Yeah, DeFoor said he didn't see the need for hammer fired guns anymore.

So he does not like AR15s? Or Shotguns?

[NH Shooter]

Striker for me, but with the right gun could be easily persuaded into DA/SA.

I EDC a Walther PPS Classic in 9mm primarily because it fits my small hands really well and as a result, I can shoot it well (it's easy to conceal too). The PPS trigger pull is shorter, lighter and smoother (like a SA with some creep) compared to my G17, which IMO requires greater care in manipulating to avoid disturbing the sight picture. Additionally, the PPS striker protrudes out of the back of the slide when the trigger is pulled, so placing my thumb over it can serve as a warning when re-holstering. For the typical civilian self-defense encounter I feel no handicap with the Walther and other than round capacity, no advantage with the G17.

That said, the PPS trigger pull cannot hold a candle to the SA pull of my factory-tuned 5906. I can fire with greater precision with the 5906, though it's heavier and bulkier...maybe I just need to invest in a better holster for it.

[coconutdave]

Right now there is a P250 in my holster, if it wasn't there it would be a revolver. So hammer.:)

[Larry Sellers]

So he does not like AR15s? Or Shotguns?
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that reference was towards pistols. We're all aware that he teaches carbine courses.

My fear was that this was going to turn into a "my TDA is a better choice than your SFA gun" back and forth.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[HopetonBrown]

So he does not like AR15s? Or Shotguns?
It was a pistol class, he mighta said handgun or pistol, but I think we all picked up what he was putting down.

[MGW]

I carry a TDA because my kids lack the physical strength to pull the DA trigger. No, I don't leave my guns laying around for them to play with. No I don't leave loaded guns around period.

I wish my preferred TDA guns were as affordable as a comparible SFA. I'm not familiar with the pricing on CZ or Beretta, but the price delta for an Hk P-Series or Sig classic P-Series vs the same brand SFA counterparts makes them very appealing.

If a kid finds a hand gun and can't pull the trigger with their finger, they will tend to try to pull the trigger with their thumbs. Guess which way it's pointing when they use their thumbs?

Food for thought.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[breakingtime91]

Silly, as I stated in the post you quoted, because the difference in both travel AND weight between the two is negligible in a practical sense. Is there a small difference between the two on paper? In my own personal examples? Yep. A SMALL one. Is the difference between the two worthy of a different level of care and discretion? I don’t think so.

The fact of the matter is the modern striker fired pistols, to include the Glock, are more similar to a SA trigger (again in a practical sense) than they are any other action type. By your own admission below, one would think you seem to feel similarly, no?

Most similar and similar are different to me. Striker triggers are more like SAO only triggers if they are being compared to a sao trigger and a rack grade double action. To say a glock trigger is "just like" a beretta single action seems off to me. That's just my opinion

[breakingtime91]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that reference was towards pistols. We're all aware that he teaches carbine courses.

My fear was that this was going to turn into a "my TDA is a better choice than your SFA gun" back and forth.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

That's what it always becomes, one side says people are less safe or yada yada and around and around we go.

[JTQ]

To say a glock trigger is "just like" a beretta single action seems off to me. That's just my opinion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8t-f54Im0

About 2:20 into the video

[Guinnessman]

Yeah, DeFoor said he didn't see the need for hammer fired guns anymore.

If this is the case, I really wish the sellers on the forum classifieds would stop price gouging. If these hammer fired guns are truly worthless, then market conditions need to reflect that. ;):p

[breakingtime91]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db8t-f54Im0

About 2:20 into the video

Yup I have seen it before. I never said a glock trigger was like a double action beretta trigger? With that I'm out of this thread, dogma seems to be taking over more then constructive conversation.

[MSparks909]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that reference was towards pistols. We're all aware that he teaches carbine courses.

My fear was that this was going to turn into a "my TDA is a better choice than your SFA gun" back and forth.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I started this because I was curious how many people still carry hammer guns, regardless of if they're TDA, 1911, whatever. There's almost always a "new and improved" Glock killer released every 6 months. In the past few months alone we've had the M&P 2.0, P10C, APX, FN 509, Hudson H9, Remington RP9 (I'm sure I'm missing one). How many new hammer guns have been released over the same time period? I'm not counting new variants like the PX4 CC or the Sig Legion guns. I'm taking actual new designs. The Wilson EDC X9?
Arex Rex Zero 1 maybe. That's the only "new" TDA I can think of in the past several months. It's clear what the market desires, and that's more striker fired guns. I could care less what people carry, this isn't my attempt to trump up my preferences for hammer fired guns, even though I still own and shoot Glocks on occasion. Just some observations is all.

[BaiHu]

TL;DR the whole thread, but I have a question.
I cut my teeth on shooting a V3 P30 (TDA w/decocker for those who don't know). I shot it for ~4 years and ~50k rounds. Then the Street Trigger LEM article/post compelled me to try the LEM and I shot that for ~2 more years and ~7k rounds (Obama ammo shortage). So I'm no stranger to the pros of LEM and TDA...

HOWEVER, approximately 18 mos ago, I seriously started putting time into my G19 (~1k rounds before 2016) in anticipation of the Gadget coming out. I had such a great experience that I wrote a song about it, like to hear it? Here it goes. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20154-Ardent-HK-man-reveals-his-Glockian-slip&highlight=ardent)

As I'm a nobody in the shooting world and certainly no SME of even pointing out which gun is being held by which actor in a movie, what is the difference b/w carrying a LEM and a Glock with an SCD when it comes to safety? Not 'managing people at gunpoint', but safety in carrying.

[Larry Sellers]

I started this because I was curious how many people still carry hammer guns, regardless of if they're TDA, 1911, whatever. There's almost always a "new and improved" Glock killer released every 6 months. In the past few months alone we've had the M&P 2.0, P10C, APX, FN 509, Hudson H9, Remington RP9 (I'm sure I'm missing one). How many new hammer guns have been released over the same time period? I'm not counting new variants like the PX4 CC or the Sig Legion guns. I'm taking actual new designs. The Wilson EDC X9?
Arex Rex Zero 1 maybe. That's the only "new" TDA I can think of in the past several months. It's clear what the market desires, and that's more striker fired guns. I could care less what people carry, this isn't my attempt to trump up my preferences for hammer fired guns, even though I still own and shoot Glocks on occasion. Just some observations is all.

I absolutely understood your thought process in starting this thread. As someone new to "deliberate" shooting practices I like to have the most information I possibly can.

[MSparks909]

TL;DR the whole thread, but I have a question.
I cut my teeth on shooting a V3 P30 (TDA w/decocker for those who don't know). I shot it for ~4 years and ~50k rounds. Then the Street Trigger LEM article/post compelled me to try the LEM and I shot that for ~2 more years and ~7k rounds (Obama ammo shortage). So I'm no stranger to the pros of LEM and TDA...

HOWEVER, approximately 18 mos ago, I seriously started putting time into my G19 (~1k rounds before 2016) in anticipation of the Gadget coming out. I had such a great experience that I wrote a song about it, like to hear it? Here it goes. (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?20154-Ardent-HK-man-reveals-his-Glockian-slip&highlight=ardent)

As I'm a nobody in the shooting world and certainly no SME of even pointing out which gun is being held by which actor in a movie, what is the difference b/w carrying a LEM and a Glock with an SCD when it comes to safety? Not 'managing people at gunpoint', but safety in carrying.

Short answer: For the average user I think both are equally as safe for carrying. The LEM obviously has a longer takeup, so file that under "user preferences." The Gadget certainly leveled the playing field for carrying a Glock AIWB or IWB and greatly lessens the chance for a ND. If you're gonna carry a striker and want it to be as safe as a hammer fired gun in regard to mitigating risk while holstering, especially while carrying AIWB, a Gadget equipped Glock is your best bet.

[JTQ]

Yup I have seen it before. I never said a glock trigger was like a double action beretta trigger? With that I'm out of this thread, dogma seems to be taking over more then constructive conversation.
I think you missed the point I was trying to make by linking the video. The point in the video is the comment that a Glock is like a single action trigger.

I don't think anybody indicated you made the claim a Glock was like a double action Beretta trigger.

[breakingtime91]

I think you missed the point I was trying to make by linking the video. The point in the video is the comment that a Glock is like a single action trigger.

I don't think anybody indicated you made the claim a Glock was like a double action Beretta trigger.

Ernest already stated he believed that to be the case. Not sure why you felt the need to link the video.

[JTQ]

Because your argument seemed as if you weren't aware of it.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

[breakingtime91]

Because your argument seemed as if you weren't aware of it.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

I'm aware he said it but I don't necessarily agree when it comes to glock triggers "feeling" like a SA beretta trigger. I think we're entitled to our own opinions here :p hence why I said it's starting to become dogmatic and I don't really feel like it's constructive at this point.

[MSparks909]

On a different note, this thread made me look over some of my 1911s. All are Series 70, without a firing pin block. Maybe the Series 80 guns aren't such a bad idea after all...

[EVP]

On a different note, this thread made me look over some of my 1911s. All are Series 70, without a firing pin block. Maybe the Series 80 guns aren't such a bad idea after all...



Or just get your 1911s built with Neds Fallarrest hammer and safety. Much better option IMO

[JTQ]

I'm aware he said it but I don't necessarily agree when it comes to glock triggers "feeling" like a SA beretta trigger. I think we're entitled to our own opinions here :p hence why I said it's starting to become dogmatic and I don't really feel like it's constructive at this point.
You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. I'm not trying to convince you. I was merely providing a data point in the event you weren't aware. Apparently you were. My bad.

[StraitR]

Is it just me, or are these poll results in stark contrast to the poll Nephrology did less than a year ago? I'll have to go find it, but I thought his very well done spreadsheet showed the vast majority of PFers carried a Glock of one flavor or another?

ETA: Here you go... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

[BehindBlueI's]

Playing off of that Darryl also said that he witnessed police officers fail to decock after a shooting... so how do we weigh that against the easier to manage people with trigger? Both trigger checking and failing to decock are training issues, both with possibly bad outcomes. I think others have said that they stopped their glock trigger press mid pull as well so maybe it isn't as big of an issue as we make?

Potential bad outcomes. Failing to decock and holstering requires you to screw multiple things up. Fail to decock, fail to thumb the hammer, and hit an obstruction on the trigger as you holster. The worst outcome is an AD into the outside of your thigh (assuming strong side carry, as most LEOs do)


I agree with everything you said about decocking, I was just pointing out that its something that has been said. If we are always pointing at trigger checking as this evil talisman that can never be stopped (train your people to have a hard register in the ejection port), then we need to point out that people under stress seem to fail to decock the same as they fail to not trigger check. Both are bad, are they equally as bad? Idk each of us needs to make that decision ourselves.

Holstering can be an admin affair, after the "holy shit I need to hurry" has past. The draw often can't be. If something can go wrong on the front end or the back end, I'd rather it go wrong on the back end. Also, as mentioned above, it takes more than one thing to go wrong for a decock failure to cause an issue. It only takes a trigger check for the draw/point to go wrong.


I carry a TDA because my kids lack the physical strength to pull the DA trigger.

If they are walking and can pick it up, they can probably pull the trigger.


If a kid finds a hand gun and can't pull the trigger with their finger, they will tend to try to pull the trigger with their thumbs. Guess which way it's pointing when they use their thumbs?


This. I've worked this case more than once, and it sucks every damn time. "Lemon squeezing" with the barrel on or at their chest, both thumbs in the trigger guard. I also had a little girl spin it around on a marker through the trigger guard until she got enough leverage to pull the trigger, and that was a CZ double action

[StraitR]

Or just get your 1911s built with Neds Fallarrest hammer and safety. Much better option IMO

The Fallarrest (spelling?) does not act as a FPB to prevent the gun from discharging if dropped. It prevents the hammer from falling and igniting a primer if the sear nose shears off.


My 1911's have always been, and will always be, series 70. Far more people shoot themselves or others via sloppy administrative handling than have ever been injured or killed by a 1911 that was dropped muzzle down and put a bullet into the deck.

FPB or no, the issue is gun handling, not what safeties allow me to be moronic and still defeat Murphy or Darwin.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I carry a TDA because my kids lack the physical strength to pull the DA trigger. No, I don't leave my guns laying around for them to play with. No I don't leave loaded guns around period.

I wish my preferred TDA guns were as affordable as a comparible SFA. I'm not familiar with the pricing on CZ or Beretta, but the price delta for an Hk P-Series or Sig classic P-Series vs the same brand SFA counterparts makes them very appealing.

This is incorrect, I'm afraid. Because of similar posts, I went and referenced the medical literature on kid hand strength. It's out there for hand injuries, orthopedic stuff, rehab for injured kid hands, etc. For kids down to toddlers who would cooperate in the tests - they have the strength to pull any DA trigger out there. In gun tests, kids have used both hands to pull a trigger, rack a slide against a table, etc. You cannot trust any standard handgun not to be manipulated by a kid who can hold it.

If I recall, way back when - when the grip safeties were introduced on SW revolvers, one thought was that a kid couldn't depress it. That lasted until they gave one to a little kid. An anecdote on slide racking - we get folks who say that someone (usually female) can't rack a slide. When my daughter was 14 and she is a small woman (5' 3" ish), I took my Glock 19 and demonstrated racking (no special technique - just rack it). I told her to try it. RACKED and she said: So what!

[benq]

I own, compete and carry decocking CZs. I like the visual and tactile feedback of the external hammer. Nothing against other pistols; I just found a platform and brand that suite my needs.

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[MSparks909]

Is it just me, or are these poll results in stark contrast to the poll Nephrology did less than a year ago? I'll have to go find it, but I thought his very well done spreadsheet showed the vast majority of PFers carried a Glock of one flavor or another?

ETA: Here you go... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

This is especially interesting. Thanks for bringing this up.

[jwperry]

...and here I thought the "controversial" part of my post was calling striker guns cheap.

Trust me, I do not trust the mechanics of a pistol(or any weapon) to keep my children from shooting each other with them. We(as a family) do not keep loaded guns around the house. When my cc pistol is removed from my belt, it goes into the locked safe. When my wife's cc pistol is removed from her purse(no I don't advocate off-body carry, but at least she's getting comfortable with the whole gun carrying thing) it goes into the locked safe as well. My post wasn't advocating a hardware solution(heavy trigger) to fix a software problem(parenting).

And, I had not considered the method of pulling the trigger that BehindBlueI's / Glenn E. Meyer / GreggW all described. But, we(wife & I) will continue to maintain our locked away/no access to firearms for our kids and teach our kids about proper firearms handling.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm real mixed on kids' access to guns. With younger ones - it is an absolute no if unsupervised. With older teenagers - you really, really have to know your kids. There are clear stories of teens defending the house successfully. My favorite is a female teen in the Bastrop area who chased away threatening looters after the wild fires there cremated the area. However, troubled kids get guns. Many parents are not really clued into the secret lives and pressures of their kids. I fear sometimes the more a parent blusters that they know their kid, rules with an iron hand and teaches gun safety - the more they don't know. Even good kids are subject to intense personal pressures and peer influences in a very short time that overwhelms a kid. Thus, it's a problem.

A sad story, I knew about that is somewhat related. A dad had a super kid - honors, no problems, etc. All the right things. When 16, he asks Dad to drive Dad's pride and joy which is a Chevy Nova 454 with all kinds of bells and whistles. Dad says - only around the block. Super kid picks up friends and ends up wrapped around a telephone pole at 100 mph. All dead. Who would have predicted that.

Not to digress from the hammer/striker issue but just saying that handgun types - hammer, striker, etc. - is not that relevant to overall kid issues.

[critter]

Is it just me, or are these poll results in stark contrast to the poll Nephrology did less than a year ago? I'll have to go find it, but I thought his very well done spreadsheet showed the vast majority of PFers carried a Glock of one flavor or another?

ETA: Here you go... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

Now this is interesting - especially so seeing as that 2016 poll posted in September. Striker redistricting perhaps? There went the neighborhood.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Are the Russians pushing striker guns? I fear they are interfering with American choices in order to enhance their takeover of the USA!

Sorry!

[Balisong]

This is a really cool thread, and timely for me. I'm surprised that such an overwhelming number of folks here run hammers, considering every class I've ever taken was DOMINATED by glocks.

I cut my teeth on hammers. Started with a Ruger P94 in an Uncle Mike's holster (yeah I said it, come at me Bro. Was my 21st birthday gun). Shortly after discovered the lovely Sig 229 which I carried for 5 or so years. It was always interesting to me that there would always be people in classes who would be baffled that I could draw from the holster and magically place a headshot with a double action pull. You know, the throwaway shot. And just as magically place follow up shots in spite of there being 2 different trigger pulls *gasp* When I started applying to police departments, all of which issue Glocks, I decided I may as well start getting used to them. Never did shoot them as well as my Sigs, or even that Ruger believe it or not. But I loved how compact and light they were (26&27). Ended up having knee problems and dropped from the police academy, and last year I started getting back into handguns after about a 5 year hiatus. Got my hands on a Sig 320 and loved it, and that's what I mostly carry now. If I'm going somewhere that I have to leave my gun in the car I bring the G27 though, as I'd rather have that stolen than a 320. Took my first class with the 320c a few weeks back and was very happy with it. However I'm also carrying AIWB now, and still new to it, and I'm trying to get my hands on a HK USP compact. IF I'm as happy with how it shoots as my 320s, then I'll probably start carrying the HK and experimenting with the different trigger modes (cocked and locked, LEM Match, DA/SA etc). Mostly for the AIWB safety reasons already alluded to here.

That's why I appreciate this thread. Y'all have given me a lot to think about. So I marked "striker" in the poll, but that may be changing in the near future.

[StraitR]

This is especially interesting. Thanks for bringing this up.


I pulled and culled the data from Nephrology's poll. Interestingly, the data shows exactly the opposite of this poll in terms of results. I marked all striker guns with a 1, did the same for anything with a hammer and marked them as 2.

I think he stopped updating the spreadsheet at one point, but this was the 185 entries, FWIW.
1 = SFA
2 = HMR

15848

[CCT125US]

Is it just me, or are these poll results in stark contrast to the poll Nephrology did less than a year ago? I'll have to go find it, but I thought his very well done spreadsheet showed the vast majority of PFers carried a Glock of one flavor or another?

ETA: Here you go... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

Not necessarily. Just a quick scan over the poll, and a tally of the possible hammer fired guns, gets pretty close to the Glock total. Even PF ebbs and flows between guns, but it does seem like it's hammer time.

[StraitR]

...and here I thought the "controversial" part of my post was calling striker guns cheap.

Trust me, I do not trust the mechanics of a pistol(or any weapon) to keep my children from shooting each other with them. We(as a family) do not keep loaded guns around the house. When my cc pistol is removed from my belt, it goes into the locked safe. When my wife's cc pistol is removed from her purse(no I don't advocate off-body carry, but at least she's getting comfortable with the whole gun carrying thing) it goes into the locked safe as well. My post wasn't advocating a hardware solution(heavy trigger) to fix a software problem(parenting).

And, I had not considered the method of pulling the trigger that BehindBlueI's / Glenn E. Meyer / GreggW all described. But, we(wife & I) will continue to maintain our locked away/no access to firearms for our kids and teach our kids about proper firearms handling.

Good on you. We go through many of the same safety protocols here with our one and five year old, and the added complexity of a 1911 is one of many reasons I went back to one. It doesn't make it impossible for them to figure out, but I'll take any additional layers of safety that I can get. If I were perfect, I wouldn't worry about such things.

An experiment I did while teaching my then three year old daughter about not touching guns, is I took a cheap spring air soft copy of my P30 and left it laying around cocked but unloaded (obviously). Checked it periodically to see if it had been tampered with or if the trigger had been pulled. Moved it every other day or so to random places (kitchen table, bathroom sink, top of the dryer) for a week or two.

My daughter actually came and got me when she found it once, and took me right to it, untouched, which was nice. I told her thank you and that I forgotten it there. I continued to play the same game for a week or more. Obviously a win here is no guarantee that they'll never touch one, but it's a good metric to measure whether or not they're listening and adhering to the lessons. My wife certainly appreciated it, and I'll be repeating the drill with my son eventually.

[EVP]

The Fallarrest (spelling?) does not act as a FPB to prevent the gun from discharging if dropped. It prevents the hammer from falling and igniting a primer if the sear nose shears off.


My 1911's have always been, and will always be, series 70. Far more people shoot themselves or others via sloppy administrative handling than have ever been injured or killed by a 1911 that was dropped muzzle down and put a bullet into the deck.

FPB or no, the issue is gun handling, not what safeties allow me to be moronic and still defeat Murphy or Darwin.

Yes I am aware how the Fallarrest works as I have discussed this with Ned awhile back.

This was also a response Msparks comment about a series 70. It is of my opinion that this would be the way to go on series 70s as I agree with you and don't worry about series 70s and dropping them muzzle first.

But I did not want to go into it further as it is off topic of the OP thread.

[ReverendMeat]

How is it silly? A beretta in sa has a shorter throw and less of a wall than a stock glock trigger. I guess this is where subjectivity comes in because that statement seems pretty silly to me

Bored at work, so I measured. Glock 17 has 3/16" pretravel, 7/16" overall, ~6 lbs. Beretta in SA has 5/16" pretravel, 1/2" overall, ~5.5 lbs. I'd call that "about the same".

[breakingtime91]

Bored at work, so I measured. Glock 17 has 3/16" pretravel, 7/16" overall, ~6 lbs. Beretta in SA has 5/16" pretravel, 1/2" overall, ~5.5 lbs. I'd call that "about the same".

Seems so, you win.

[JAD]

On a different note, this thread made me look over some of my 1911s. All are Series 70, without a firing pin block. Maybe the Series 80 guns aren't such a bad idea after all...

If -- and I've seen various data -- a series 70 will discharge when dropped from a reasonable height, it will only do so when it strikes muzzle first. While that would be an embarrassing outcome, I wouldn't call that high stakes.

[TexasSiegfried]

I am probably the newest of the noobs. Fired my first ever handgun in August of 2016 at age 55, to prep for Texas LTC. I started with an SP2022 in .40. Did horribly. Rented a glock 19 in 9mm, did horribly. Rented a P320 in 9mm, haven't looked back. I now edc a 320 full size aiwb, and a 320 subcompact on my ankle, both in 9mm. This choice was driven by both my ability to shoot it, as well as the compatibility of the mags, so that if I needed to hand off one of them to my wife, the spare mag I carry will work for either.

However, once I have clocked my first year, I am going to look at the P22x series in 9mm. For me, it really worked to learn on SFA, but I am very interested in working into DA/SA. I once rented a P229 tacops in 9mm and was very pleasantly surprised at how well I handled it. I give credit to the pistol, not to me!!

FWIW, my wife carries a P239 in .40, which she shoots better than any of the 9mm pistols she has tried, regardless of trigger type. Go figure!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[LangdonTactical]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that reference was towards pistols. We're all aware that he teaches carbine courses.

My fear was that this was going to turn into a "my TDA is a better choice than your SFA gun" back and forth.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

Of course he was. I was being a smart ass. Sorry if I was out of line.

[LangdonTactical]

It was a pistol class, he mighta said handgun or pistol, but I think we all picked up what he was putting down.

Sure, I get it, I was being a smart ass. Sorry about that.

[Guinnessman]

Of course he was. I was being a smart ass. Sorry if I was out of line.

There is nothing wrong with being a smartass............;)

15856

[StraitR]

Ok, that's ^^^^ pretty funny. :D

[critter]

I am probably the newest of the noobs. Fired my first ever handgun in August of 2016 at age 55, to prep for Texas LTC. I started with an SP2022 in .40. Did horribly. Rented a glock 19 in 9mm, did horribly. Rented a P320 in 9mm, haven't looked back. I now edc a 320 full size aiwb, and a 320 subcompact on my ankle, both in 9mm. This choice was driven by both my ability to shoot it, as well as the compatibility of the mags, so that if I needed to hand off one of them to my wife, the spare mag I carry will work for either.

However, once I have clocked my first year, I am going to look at the P22x series in 9mm. For me, it really worked to learn on SFA, but I am very interested in working into DA/SA. I once rented a P229 tacops in 9mm and was very pleasantly surprised at how well I handled it. I give credit to the pistol, not to me!!

FWIW, my wife carries a P239 in .40, which she shoots better than any of the 9mm pistols she has tried, regardless of trigger type. Go figure!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I think the 239 is one of the most underpublicized if not underrated pistols on the planet. It's a little on the heavy side for its size and capacity, I guess, but that weight also contributes directly to it being such an easy, comfortable shooter -- as you (and your wife) indicate -- even in .40.

[Wheeler]

I carry a TDA if I'm packing a semi-auto. Personal experience has led me to wanting to be able to have a bit more time to make the decision to shoot or not. I also like having tactile feedback when reholstering, i.e. thumb over the hammer.

[Soggy]

For safety during holstering I think DA, Glock with gadget, Shield with safety all do the job, right? (Assuming things get used as intended).

For the other part, the "managing people" part: How applicable is that to CC'ers vs LEO? I can't picture a situation where I am trying to get people to do something with my weapon drawn. Am I missing something, or are we talking about a need that generally does not apply to everyone?

[deputyG23]

I haven't regularly carried a handgun with a hammer since my service revolver days. I primarily shoot the same genre of pistol I carry for real. That has been Glock since 1989. My vote was "no" for that reason.
If I ever retire and carry a pistol just for me, I might consider changing just for the mental exercise.

[StraitR]

FWIW, we have about 300 users that regularly read the forum with Tapatalk. Polls not only don't show up in Tapatalk, but there's no indication at all in Tapatalk that there is a poll attached to a thread. So unless the OP makes it clear in their post that a thread has a poll, there are maybe 300 regular readers that don't know and don't vote.

Interesting, I had no idea. Tapatalk and I have never really gotten along, for some reason. I have it installed on every iOS device I own, but even on my iPhone I still use regular Safari to view PF, but you probably already knew that. ;)

[TheNewbie]

The P226 is my favorite duty style weapon. I just wish there was a small reliable DA/SA for discrete carry. The P232 in the two examples I owned were not reliable.

[Doc_Glock]

I got drawn into shooting five years ago with an unfired 25 year old Gen 2 Glock and most of my 17,000 ish rounds since then have been with a Glock as well as most of my dry practice.

I enjoy mastery of any hobby and as such have tried various pistol actions. They all work fine. Most allow me to shoot slightly better than a Glock. Or at least equal Glock performance with less practice.

As to the original question I can't say I prefer strikers over hammers, but I absolutely can say I prefer my trigger pulls to be consistent from shot to shot.

From my enthusiast, hobbiest perspective:

TDA pistols make no sense. Two differing trigger pulls at a time of great stress is a bad idea. The supposed safety of a heavier first pull with the advantage of precision on a second lighter pull is a set up for a negligent discharge when an un-practiced user anticipates a heavy long pull, trigger checks, and gets a short, light pull. I know of at least two users of DA/SA pistols who have done this.

Someone in this thread stated that he gets his best slow fire accuracy decocking between shots. That is fine, but I don't think bullseye competitors try to have heavier trigger pulls. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think the TDA system is a pistol masters system. I own one example and will have more, but I doubt I will ever achieve enough mastery to carry one for serious use.

That leaves me with SA actions with a safety, LEM, DAO, and SFA as options. I have found I definitely shoot better with a light SA CZ 75 or 1911, but concerns about fumbling safety deactivation make me hesitant to carry them.

LEM, DAK or revolver are fine, but a little slow in my hands. I feel most proponents of the "safety" aspect of the TDA system would actually be better served by one of these variants. If you want to have the maximum ability to "not shoot" someone that ability should be the same shot to shot and these systems eliminate both the safety and decocker. I may eventually carry a LEM as DB makes a great argument for it. It is slow and less accurate for me though.

That leaves me with striker fired for the most part. A consistent, fast, easy to manage trigger, perhaps lacking a bit in precision. With minimal training it is easy to learn not shoot people or oneself as well.

My $0.02 FWIW.

[HCM]

For safety during holstering I think DA, Glock with gadget, Shield with safety all do the job, right? (Assuming things get used as intended).

For the other part, the "managing people" part: How applicable is that to CC'ers vs LEO? I can't picture a situation where I am trying to get people to do something with my weapon drawn. Am I missing something, or are we talking about a need that generally does not apply to everyone?

You are missing something. While not neraly as frequent as LEO encounters, many civilian defensive encounters involve drawing without firing. Whether this involves holding the suspect at gunpoint or dissuading the suspect and causing them to flee. Check out the NRAs armed citizen column for examples.

[JAD]

I think the TDA system is a pistol masters system. I own one example and will have more, but I doubt I will ever achieve enough mastery to carry one for serious use.... I have found I definitely shoot better with a light SA CZ 75 or 1911, but concerns about fumbling safety deactivation make me hesitant to carry them.

With regard to the SA, if you ride the safety the thought of missing manipulation is far fetched. I don't know much about TDA, but if Mr. Langdon tells me to fear not it, then I won't.

That said, there's no need or reason to go learn either type. SFAs with SCDs are fine.

[JHC]

Is it just me, or are these poll results in stark contrast to the poll Nephrology did less than a year ago? I'll have to go find it, but I thought his very well done spreadsheet showed the vast majority of PFers carried a Glock of one flavor or another?

ETA: Here you go... https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

At the grave and certain risk of being a pedant; the question asked "Do you carry hammer fired guns?" I would have only answered No if I never did or never or rarely would. With my recent renewal of 1911 I'm not exclusive either way right now, so yes I do.

[M2CattleCo]

I prefer hammer fired, but carry striker because of the Glock 43.

[jwperry]

TDA pistols make no sense. Two differing trigger pulls at a time of great stress is a bad idea. The supposed safety of a heavier first pull with the advantage of precision on a second lighter pull is a set up for a negligent discharge when an un-practiced user anticipates a heavy long pull, trigger checks, and gets a short, light pull. I know of at least two users of DA/SA pistols who have done this.



When you shoot a SFA, do you allow the trigger only to move forward to the reset or do you allow it's travel to completely reset requiring you to complete the entire length of the trigger pull before break the next shot?

[s0nspark]

TDA pistols make no sense. Two differing trigger pulls at a time of great stress is a bad idea. The supposed safety of a heavier first pull with the advantage of precision on a second lighter pull is a set up for a negligent discharge when an un-practiced user anticipates a heavy long pull, trigger checks, and gets a short, light pull. I know of at least two users of DA/SA pistols who have done this.


The problem there is not the choice of gun but the un-practiced user...

I see a regular stream of users at the range who are obviously unfamiliar with their gun's trigger pull and/or proper operation. The resulting "surprise break" usually sends rounds into the floor or ceiling! Regardless of action type, a user should be proficient with his choice and ever aware of the condition it is in. My $0.02 ;-)

Regarding the poll... anything can be carried safely with training, practice and the right equipment and mindset, but I greatly prefer hammer-fired TDA guns. My random thoughts:

1. A longer, heavier first pull provides a useful "stress buffer"
2. Thumbing the hammer when reholstering provides another level of safety, regardless of carry position
3. TDA guns should have a decocker and it should be used religiously between strings of fire - safeties are for SAO (and SFA) guns ONLY ;-)
4. I shoot TDA guns better, faster.
5. I love steel but generally carry polymer.

[Hambo]

TDA pistols make no sense. Two differing trigger pulls at a time of great stress is a bad idea. The supposed safety of a heavier first pull with the advantage of precision on a second lighter pull is a set up for a negligent discharge when an un-practiced user anticipates a heavy long pull, trigger checks, and gets a short, light pull. I know of at least two users of DA/SA pistols who have done this.

I think the TDA system is a pistol masters system. I own one example and will have more, but I doubt I will ever achieve enough mastery to carry one for serious use.


So what happens if an inexperienced user "trigger checks" a Glock, 1911, AR, shotgun, etc? Boom, that's what happens. The problem there is the user, not the weapon.

TDA is a master's system? I'd say no more than any other pistol. I see non-masters every week at the range wreaking havoc with Glocks, Kahrs, 1911s, revolvers, AKs...the list goes on.

ETA: I'm not advocating that everyone dump their Glock for a Beretta or that DA/SA is somehow better than anything else. What I am advocating is that shooters learn to operate whichever pistol they choose, and learn to shoot it well.

[Robinson]

I think the TDA system is a pistol masters system. I own one example and will have more, but I doubt I will ever achieve enough mastery to carry one for serious use.

I disagree. I've experimented with Beretta and Sig TDA pistols and having two trigger pulls did not seem to be an obstacle too difficult to overcome with practice. And that is coming from a 1911 user who is no master. I appreciate the Glock and other SFA pistols for what they are, but if I were to move away from the 1911 it would probably be toward a Beretta or Sig TDA design.

[Clobbersaurus]

Taken from the company web sites:

Trigger pull weights:
Glock 17 - 5.5lbs
Hk VP9 - 5.4lbs
Sig P320 - 6.5lbs

Beretta 92: - no data on web site, but I would guess it is similar to data below.
Sig 226 SA - 4.4lbs DA - 10lbs
Hk P30 SA - 4.5lbs DA - 11.2

1 lb isn't a whole lot of difference between The SA trigger pull in TDA service pistols and striker service pistols. I would also hazard a guess that length of pull of the SA in the TDA guns is very close to the striker guns, or close enough that the difference is practically useless.

Edit: The above data is part of the reason I moved from striker to TDA guns and will likely never go back.

[Doc_Glock]

When you shoot a SFA, do you allow the trigger only to move forward to the reset or do you allow it's travel to completely reset requiring you to complete the entire length of the trigger pull before break the next shot?

I think I see what you are getting at with this question, but I am not entirely sure. I think I run the entire travel. But I can't say I know I am when running fast. I don't make an effort to "ride the reset, " and I can't remember the last time I short stroked.

[Doc_Glock]

So what happens if an inexperienced user "trigger checks" a Glock, 1911, AR, shotgun, etc? Boom, that's what happens. The problem there is the user, not the weapon.

ETA: I'm not advocating that everyone dump their Glock for a Beretta or that DA/SA is somehow better than anything else. What I am advocating is that shooters learn to operate whichever pistol they choose, and learn to shoot it well.

I agree with you for the most part. I disagree with the first statement as unconsciously, we learn various trigger weights. An untrained, un-practiced person will make that first shot and expect the trigger to act at the same weight. I think a ND is much more likely in this situation compared to an Glock or 1911.

For a muscle memory analogy from the weight room: if you have ever misloaded a squat bar so the weight is unbalanced and then lifted it. You immediately realize the mistake when the bar tips and you set it down. You balance the weight, then lift it, and 99% of the time you will start to tip it the other way. You body remembered the imbalance and compensated for it unconsciously.

You have a heavy trigger pull. Your subconscious expects another heavy trigger pull, but want to keep your finger there just in case: bang.

You have a consistent trigger pull, you want to keep your finger there just in case: less likely bang.

[M2CattleCo]

I used a DA SA Sig in a super high stress situation against a Pit Bull. The decade I spent training on TDA pistols ensured the first shot went right where I wanted it. The following two unintentional shots broke the deal for me.

I want either a light or a heavy trigger.

[breakingtime91]

I used a DA SA Sig in a super high stress situation against a Pit Bull. The decade I spent training on TDA pistols ensured the first shot went right where I wanted it. The following two unintentional shots broke the deal for me.

I want either a light or a heavy trigger.

what do you run now? Interesting take on it.

[TheNewbie]

I used a DA SA Sig in a super high stress situation against a Pit Bull. The decade I spent training on TDA pistols ensured the first shot went right where I wanted it. The following two unintentional shots broke the deal for me.

I want either a light or a heavy trigger.


Do you mind giving more details ?

[M2CattleCo]

My sister rents the house on our old home place. I have cattle on the land. The water well wasn't working so I went to check it out. I walked up the back porch to go talk to my sister what I found, her (or her husband's) pit bull was loose and laying on the porch. I startled him and he jumped at me. I slung an iron porch chair at him while drawing (P239 9mm) from AIWB and that gave me enough time to get the front sight on him and squeeze.

Shot hit his chest high and he was hit good, but not dead yet. I had decided on a second shot and it broke before I wanted it to. I decided to make it a double since I wasn't totally sure about the placement of the last one. It went off about as quick as a bump fire and the dog was down good.

This all happened in maybe 3 seconds.

[M2CattleCo]

what do you run now? Interesting take on it.

Glock 43 is my only pistol right now. I can't shoot any other Glock any better for some reason, so I'm shopping right now. I'm looking hard at a PPQ and VP9. I really want a 9mm 1911 but don't trust 'em to run reliably. I tried a TLG LEM P2000 for a bit and I just wasn't as fast with it as I wanted to be.

I value a fast, accurate first shot and it is very high on my priority list as I perceive the most likely threat to me is dogs. That's the second pit bull I've killed in as many years. Both encounters were about the same. The other was with a Mossberg 500 and Federal LE13300, which performed excellently and only required one shot.

[breakingtime91]

Glock 43 is my only pistol right now. I can't shoot any other Glock any better for some reason, so I'm shopping right now. I'm looking hard at a PPQ and VP9. I really want a 9mm 1911 but don't trust 'em to run reliably. I tried a TLG LEM P2000 for a bit and I just wasn't as fast with it as I wanted to be.

I value a fast, accurate first shot and it is very high on my priority list as I perceive the most likely threat to me is dogs. That's the second pit bull I've killed in as many years. Both encounters were about the same. The other was with a Mossberg 500 and Federal LE13300, which performed excellently and only required one shot.

I enjoy the LEM for what it is, definitely not speed. 45 acp seems incredibly reasonable right now, I have been looking at potentially going that route as well.

[RJ]

My sister rents the house on our old home place. I have cattle on the land. The water well wasn't working so I went to check it out. I walked up the back porch to go talk to my sister what I found, her (or her husband's) pit bull was loose and laying on the porch. I startled him and he jumped at me. I slung an iron porch chair at him while drawing (P239 9mm) from AIWB and that gave me enough time to get the front sight on him and squeeze.

Shot hit his chest high and he was hit good, but not dead yet. I had decided on a second shot and it broke before I wanted it to. I decided to make it a double since I wasn't totally sure about the placement of the last one. It went off about as quick as a bump fire and the dog was down good.

This all happened in maybe 3 seconds.

Wow.

[RJ]

I enjoy the LEM for what it is, definitely not speed. 45 acp seems incredibly reasonable right now, I have been looking at potentially going that route as well.

I may or may not have been caught browsing on HKs web site on the HK 45c page. Would that be under consideration assuming it was a LEM?

PS - To be repetitive, this thread is pretty cool.

[breakingtime91]

I may or may not have been caught browsing on HKs web site on the HK 45c page. Would that be under consideration assuming it was a LEM?

PS - To be repetitive, this thread is pretty cool.

1911 :eek:

[TheNewbie]

I may or may not have been caught browsing on HKs web site on the HK 45c page. Would that be under consideration assuming it was a LEM?

PS - To be repetitive, this thread is pretty cool.

Any PF thread over 5 pages is going to be cool. One way or another, it's going to be fun to watch.

I wish the Sig P220 was on par reliability wise with the HK. The DAK trigger is actually one of my favorites, but I am weird like that.

[jwperry]

I think I see what you are getting at with this question, but I am not entirely sure. I think I run the entire travel. But I can't say I know I am when running fast. I don't make an effort to "ride the reset, " and I can't remember the last time I short stroked.
We're probably on the same page; the route I was taking with the question was that, in my opinion, the "2 trigger pulls" point of view isn't necessarily valid. If only allowing the trigger to reset, the depressing again, it doesn't change position or weight in SA v. DA. Same for a SFA.

To keep that mindset it is prudent to decock before movement or any other administrative handling. For me, as a civilian nobody, if my finger comes off the trigger I decock as a way of signifying a break in contact. Same way I'd flip a safety on a gun that is equipped with one.

I believe this is one of those discussions that there is no right answer....and no wrong answer. It will circle around personal preference, familiarity and equipment on hand.

[GAP]

My sister rents the house on our old home place. I have cattle on the land. The water well wasn't working so I went to check it out. I walked up the back porch to go talk to my sister what I found, her (or her husband's) pit bull was loose and laying on the porch. I startled him and he jumped at me. I slung an iron porch chair at him while drawing (P239 9mm) from AIWB and that gave me enough time to get the front sight on him and squeeze.

Shot hit his chest high and he was hit good, but not dead yet. I had decided on a second shot and it broke before I wanted it to. I decided to make it a double since I wasn't totally sure about the placement of the last one. It went off about as quick as a bump fire and the dog was down good.

This all happened in maybe 3 seconds.

So.. you killed your sister's dog?

[RJ]

1911 :eek:

Ah - I ran "LEM" and ".45" together and got "HK45c". Sorry. :cool:


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[GAP]

I still think this topic depends on what is hot at the moment. If the PX4 CC wasn't just released and gaining steam mostly because a respected trainer who posts here helped develop the CC version, I think "striker" would dominate the poll with most carrying Glocks.

Since I don't hold people at gun point frequently or obsessively worry about shooting myself I guess I don't see the benefit over a striker design that is much lighter and has one consistent trigger pull to master with no additional controls to manipulate.

[BJXDS]

I guess we will see how this plays out vote wise BUT I just assumed everyone carried a G19.

[GJM]

I think YVK got it right a bunch of pages ago -- who cares whether someone else uses a striker or hammer. It feels like this thread has become this year's equivalent of the 9 vs 45 argument, and when a dog getting shot comes into it, some LE ugliness is all we have left to throw gas on the flames.

[NH Shooter]

So.. you killed your sister's dog?

Sounds that way. And I bet he wasn't invited in for a cup of coffee afterwards.

[CCT125US]

I may or may not have been caught browsing on HKs web site on the HK 45c page. Would that be under consideration assuming it was a LEM?

PS - To be repetitive, this thread is pretty cool.

My .45c is pretty slick. The break on the LEM is crisp, with a short reset. It shoots Apples nicely at 50 yds.
15897

[GAP]

I think YVK got it right a bunch of pages ago -- who cares whether someone else uses a striker or hammer. It feels like this thread has become this year's equivalent of the 9 vs 45 argument, and when a dog getting shot comes into it, some LE ugliness is all we have left to throw gas on the flames.

Hmm, I didn't get that at all. But, it is pretty noticeable when 70% of the forum jumps into the DeLorean. :rolleyes:

[Balisong]

I know I'm just a new guy here and maybe it's cuz of the other forums that I've come from, but I'm not seeing a lot of arguing here. I'm seeing quite a bit of intelligent discussion on the pros and cons of hammer vs striker. All of which is interesting to me. It's also interesting seeing the poll results and the current trend of the folks on here. I still think it's a good thread and I appreciate everyone's input in it.

[TCFD273]

I think YVK got it right a bunch of pages ago -- who cares whether someone else uses a striker or hammer. It feels like this thread has become this year's equivalent of the 9 vs 45 argument, and when a dog getting shot comes into it, some LE ugliness is all we have left to throw gas on the flames.

[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BehindBlueI's]

I think YVK got it right a bunch of pages ago -- who cares whether someone else uses a striker or hammer. It feels like this thread has become this year's equivalent of the 9 vs 45 argument, and when a dog getting shot comes into it, some LE ugliness is all we have left to throw gas on the flames.

Nobody is an expert in every arena, and we all take someone else's word on "it" at some point, if that "it" is cars, guns, jeans, or a gutter system.

I don't care if you carry a .22 derringer or a Desert Eagle. I do care that factually information is out there so you can make a knowing decision. If you choose to carry a .22 derringer as a primary fully understanding the reasons not to, that's on you. If you choose to carry a .22 derringer because you believe bad information provided to you, that it runs around in the human body like a squirrel in a cage and the derringer is the biggest gun you can conceal, that's on those who left the bullshit unchallenged.

There is not one ring to rule them all. However I see nothing wrong in the slightest with discussing the various pros and cons so people can make their own decisions.

[RJ]

My .45c is pretty slick...



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170424/8a6ed6fca70860ddfde68fd12f57c215.jpg



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[critter]

Glock 43 is my only pistol right now. I can't shoot any other Glock any better for some reason, so I'm shopping right now. I'm looking hard at a PPQ and VP9. I really want a 9mm 1911 but don't trust 'em to run reliably. I tried a TLG LEM P2000 for a bit and I just wasn't as fast with it as I wanted to be.

I value a fast, accurate first shot and it is very high on my priority list as I perceive the most likely threat to me is dogs. That's the second pit bull I've killed in as many years. Both encounters were about the same. The other was with a Mossberg 500 and Federal LE13300, which performed excellently and only required one shot.

Well, obviously I'm highly partial to the PPQ (M1). It's my absolute favorite favorite pistol in 40 years of pistoling. Be aware that if you are running the stock trigger on the 43, that the PPQ will be a whole bleepin' world of difference. That can be either good or bad. PPQ trigger is a little on the light side. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid in the least to carry it daily, but I'd definitely put in the intense training time with it with that exact purpose in mind. The VP9 is actually very similar, the difference mostly being aesthetics and that the trigger breaks and resets slightly farther forward (makes a noticeable difference if your hands are smaller), and yeah, I love that one too, just not quite as much. Also note that both have the Euro style mag releases (PPQ M1, VP9) which I really, really, really, really, ad infinitum, like... er... a lot. Others hate them. The PPQ M2 has the thumb button release but also a bulge in the grip to accommodate that button (again, noticeable with smaller hands). Rentals are pretty much everywhere. Shoot 'em both and see how they feel.

the more compact VP sk version is coming down the pipe. The CCP is the shape and size that the compact PPQ would have been had Walther not had an episode of temporary insanity. You may want to check out the CCP. I did, but, I just couldn't like it, and I really wanted to. It does have a little heavier trigger.

[RJ]

I know I'm just a new guy here and maybe it's cuz of the other forums that I've come from, but I'm not seeing a lot of arguing here. I'm seeing quite a bit of intelligent discussion on the pros and cons of hammer vs striker. All of which is interesting to me. It's also interesting seeing the poll results and the current trend of the folks on here. I still think it's a good thread and I appreciate everyone's input in it.

Just wait till Pfestivus.

Same guys you see here coolly debating pro and con of Hammer Fired pistols will be swinging handbags at two paces. :cool:

Kidding, of course.

The absence of argumentative pointless derp is oddly characteristic of p-f.com. Oddly since it is so pervasive on the 'Gunternet. It is one of the only places online for which I part with a small sum of my discretionary income to support.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[EVP]

I still think this topic depends on what is hot at the moment.

Us P-F OGs recognize the flavor of the month. Many like to try different flavors and see what works for them and what they prefer. After all shooting is fun and it's also enlightening and fun to try different things regarless the action type.

Honestly I think most members here could care less on what some one else carries and why. As long as it works for them, cool.



Nobody is an expert in every arena, and we all take someone else's word on "it" at some point, if that "it" is cars, guns, jeans, or a gutter system.

I don't care if you carry a .22 derringer or a Desert Eagle. I do care that factually information is out there so you can make a knowing decision. If you choose to carry a .22 derringer as a primary fully understanding the reasons not to, that's on you. If you choose to carry a .22 derringer because you believe bad information provided to you, that it runs around in the human body like a squirrel in a cage and the derringer is the biggest gun you can conceal, that's on those who left the bullshit unchallenged.

There is not one ring to rule them all. However I see nothing wrong in the slightest with discussing the various pros and cons so people can make their own decisions.

Nailed it!

[M2CattleCo]

So.. you killed your sister's dog?

Yes. On her back porch. That added quite a bit to the stress factor.

[M2CattleCo]

Well, obviously I'm highly partial to the PPQ (M1). It's my absolute favorite favorite pistol in 40 years of pistoling. Be aware that if you are running the stock trigger on the 43, that the PPQ will be a whole bleepin' world of difference. That can be either good or bad. PPQ trigger is a little on the light side. Personally, I wouldn't be afraid in the least to carry it daily, but I'd definitely put in the intense training time with it with that exact purpose in mind. The VP9 is actually very similar, the difference mostly being aesthetics and that the trigger breaks and resets slightly farther forward (makes a noticeable difference if your hands are smaller), and yeah, I love that one too, just not quite as much. Also note that both have the Euro style mag releases (PPQ M1, VP9) which I really, really, really, really, ad infinitum, like... er... a lot. Others hate them. The PPQ M2 has the thumb button release but also a bulge in the grip to accommodate that button (again, noticeable with smaller hands). Rentals are pretty much everywhere. Shoot 'em both and see how they feel.

the more compact VP sk version is coming down the pipe. The CCP is the shape and size that the compact PPQ would have been had Walther not had an episode of temporary insanity. You may want to check out the CCP. I did, but, I just couldn't like it, and I really wanted to. It does have a little heavier trigger.

I've tried twice this year to get back into a bigger Glock. Once with the 19, and once with the 17. I don't know why, but I can't shoot 'em anymore. I used to do fine with a 17 in SSP/Production. This time around, I just can't get any consistency. One time I'll shoot 100 rounds and be accurate and everything works, the very next day I'll be all over the place with brass going everywhere and all over me.

I can pick up the 43 and shoot it about the same every time. I can honestly hold 8" groups at 25 with it, I can reload it better than I could the 239, my first shot out the holster is faster with less effort. I thought the 17 would be naturally easier, but I had a bear of a time with it.

[critter]

I've tried twice this year to get back into a bigger Glock. Once with the 19, and once with the 17. I don't know why, but I can't shoot 'em anymore. I used to do fine with a 17 in SSP/Production. This time around, I just can't get any consistency. One time I'll shoot 100 rounds and be accurate and everything works, the very next day I'll be all over the place with brass going everywhere and all over me.

I can pick up the 43 and shoot it about the same every time. I can honestly hold 8" groups at 25 with it, I can reload it better than I could the 239, my first shot out the holster is faster with less effort. I thought the 17 would be naturally easier, but I had a bear of a time with it.

This begs the question.. what exactly is it that you are wanting from your carry pistol that you don't think you have with the 43? capacity? I don't know, man.. the 43 is a damn nice concealable package even with a couple extra mags, and it sounds like you're bang on with it. That would be golden in my book. So, why change? What am I missing?

[GAP]

Us P-F OGs recognize the flavor of the month. Many like to try different flavors and see what works for them and what they prefer. After all shooting is fun and it's also enlightening and fun to try different things regarless the action type.

Honestly I think most members here could care less on what some one else carries and why. As long as it works for them, cool.


I guess I don't get the point of the quote. I certainly couldn't care less, but I actually formed a reply based on the OP.


Yes. On her back porch. That added quite a bit to the stress factor.

I'm not sure murdering dogs is the way to go, but good luck with the rest of your life.

[YVK]

I still think this topic depends on what is hot at the moment. If the PX4 CC wasn't just released and gaining steam mostly because a respected trainer who posts here helped develop the CC version, I think "striker" would dominate the poll with most carrying Glocks.

I wasn't paying attention as the PX4CC developed its following and my own move was almost spontaneous (when I shot with Ernest as recently as in August of last year, I didn't even ask to handle that gun) but I didn't get a perception that a bunch of striker shooters have jumped their ship and joined the hammer crowd. I think that p-f.com has already had a large number of "hammerheads", owing to a number of various reasons.

[s0nspark]

The VP9 is actually very similar, the difference mostly being aesthetics and that the trigger breaks and resets slightly farther forward (makes a noticeable difference if your hands are smaller)

... or larger ;-) That was what drove me to the VP9 over the PPQ.


You may want to check out the CCP.

Sample size of one here but... no, no ,no, just no, please no... that gun has been nothing but trouble. Ours has been back to Walther twice now and if I was less scrupulous I would sell or trade it.

Having an airsoft company design and/or manufacture a real firearms just isn't anything close to a good idea.

[GAP]

I wasn't paying attention as the PX4CC developed its following and my own move was almost spontaneous (when I shot with Ernest as recently as in August of last year, I didn't even ask to handle that gun) but I didn't get a perception that a bunch of striker shooters have jumped their ship and joined the hammer crowd. I think that p-f.com has already had a large number of "hammerheads", owing to a number of various reasons.

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

Oh really... lol ;)

[BillSWPA]

Now this is interesting - especially so seeing as that 2016 poll posted in September. Striker redistricting perhaps? There went the neighborhood.

The way the current poll was worded, I checked "yes" because my backup/NPE gun is hammer-fired and because I occasionally carry a 1911. On almost any given day, I can be found carrying a Glock. So, even though I checked yes for hammer-fired, it would be incorrect to interpret that as a "no" for striker fired. I am far, far more likely to carry striker fired than hammer fired.

Again, I care a lot less about hammer v. striker than about other attributes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[YVK]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22241-What-do-you-carry-Survey-for-2016

Oh really... lol ;)

Pretty sure nothing much changed since then, despite polls' results differences.

[Hambo]

I agree with you for the most part. I disagree with the first statement as unconsciously, we learn various trigger weights. An untrained, un-practiced person will make that first shot and expect the trigger to act at the same weight. I think a ND is much more likely in this situation compared to an Glock or 1911.

You have a heavy trigger pull. Your subconscious expects another heavy trigger pull, but want to keep your finger there just in case: bang.

You have a consistent trigger pull, you want to keep your finger there just in case: less likely bang.

I'm not saying it's impossible to ND a DA/SA in either mode, but the idea that you're somehow safer with your finger on the trigger of a 1911 or SF is totally fucked.

[GAP]

Pretty sure nothing much changed since then, despite polls' results differences.

That's the exact definition of "jumping ship" considering Glock alone accounted for almost more than everything combined.

[GJM]

The Front Sight statistics on NDs by their students show a pretty balanced distribution between striker, DA/SA and 1911, and about 1/3 were drawing, 1/3 holstering and the rest a balance of poor gun handling. I don't attach any special significance to Front Sight, beyond they push a bunch of people through training, and post ND incident reports on their website.

[BillSWPA]

I guess I don't get the point of the quote. I certainly couldn't care less, but I actually formed a reply based on the OP.



I'm not sure murdering dogs is the way to go, but good luck with the rest of your life.

When one owns a dangerous dog, one accepts the fact that this might become necessary.

I grew up owning dogs. I own one now (Yorkshire terrier). I like them, except the small minority that would attack me.

My neighbor likes Great Danes. When his two previous dogs died from old age, he got a new puppy. He didn't realize until after he had the dog that the breeder had a bad bloodline, and the dog was not gentle like most Great Danes. I asked to meet the dog (18 months old and 160 lb. at that point) so that I would know what I was dealing with if it ever got loose (unlikely since they are responsible). After I let it sniff my hand, it completely and unpredictably went from playful to aggressive, biting my right hand. Fortunately it was just a minor thumb injury, but had the dog gotten just a little bit better hold on my thumb, I would not have that thumb right now. Had the neighbor's family not immediately gotten control of the dog and gotten it away from me, I am convinced it would have kept coming, and I would have had to draw and shoot with my injured hand while still likely taking damage from the dog.

A consultation with their vet, another breeder, and a Great Dane rescue organization led to the dog being put down by the vet. My neighbor was told by all that it was not safe to have that dog around people.

That neighbor and I remain friends. However, had that dog ever gotten loose around my family, I would not have waited to see what it would do before taking action. I doubt my neighbor would have been happy, but my family's safety comes first.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[spinmove_]

The Front Sight statistics on NDs by their students show a pretty balanced distribution between striker, DA/SA and 1911, and about 1/3 were drawing, 1/3 holstering and the rest a balance of poor gun handling. I don't attach any special significance to Front Sight, beyond they push a bunch of people through training, and post ND incident reports on their website.

Build a system that's idiot proof and the world will build a better idiot. The IT world and automotive world has taught me that time and time again.

You can make your system as safe, comfortable, and AD/ND resistant as you want, but the fact remains that the issue at hand here is still the human component. Always has, always will be. Regardless of your trigger system of choice we must be vigilant in making sure we handle firearms safely and responsibly.

Follow your 4 safety rules. Make sure your holster is clear before re-holstering. If you've got hammers or gadgets, make use of them. Humans will still make mistakes, but preventing them in the human end will always be more effective than preventing it from the hardware end.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[M2CattleCo]

I guess I don't get the point of the quote. I certainly couldn't care less, but I actually formed a reply based on the OP.



I'm not sure murdering dogs is the way to go, but good luck with the rest of your life.

If you think you letting a pit bull attack you is preferable to shooting it, you're gonna need the luck.

[Jared]

(Snip) I think that p-f.com has already had a large number of "hammerheads", owing to a number of various reasons.

Yeah, I think so too. I know when I first started lurking before creating my account in late 2011, I noticed right up front that this was about the only forum out there where you could openly admit to running a Da/S and not have to listen to 300 posts telling you how stupid you were. Since I was already a crunchenticker fan, that pretty much sold me, along with the high quality of the rest of the content here.

As to the original question. I've carried hammer fired guns exclusively since I got my CHL. That was mostly because the guns I shot the best were hammer fired, but I do appreciate having the hammer to ride during the holstering process.

OTOH, I've also finally found a striker I really like, and who knows, if you ask me this question in a year you may get a different answer. I'm really not too hung up on hammer vs striker anymore.

[GAP]

If you think you letting a pit bull attack you is preferable to shooting it, you're gonna need the luck.

I wouldn't sneak up on my sister's guard dog, be more aware of your surroundings. As I said, "good luck."

[YVK]

That's the exact definition of "jumping ship" considering Glock alone accounted for almost more than everything combined.

That poll had a neutral question. This poll's question is not neutral as it requires a dichotomous answer; it also has a slight implication of hammer being an underdog and that often prompts a responder bias. This poll is under 200 responses, that one is over 400. Again, I highly doubt things have changed much around here.

[BillSWPA]

I wouldn't sneak up on my sister's guard dog, be more aware of your surroundings. As I said, "good luck."

Exactly what in his post led you to the conclusion that he approached the house in anything differing from a conventional approach?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GAP]

Exactly what in his post led you to the conclusion that he approached the house in anything differing from a conventional approach?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think ending it here would benefit the thread. If that's your take on it then great.

[GAP]

That poll had a neutral question. This poll's question is not neutral as it requires a dichotomous answer; it also has a slight implication of hammer being an underdog and that often prompts a responder bias. This poll is under 200 responses, that one is over 400. Again, I highly doubt things have changed much around here.

With that logic it's impossible to prove your mind wrong so we can agree to disagree.

[MSparks909]

Derail complete!

[StraitR]

I didn't see that the thread derailed before quoting and posting my support of M2C's decision. That said, I edited so we can get back to the topic at hand.

[LearnedHat]

I would imagine there being a bias here to the thing that is easier to shoot. I would think that most people have trouble pulling a 9-12# trigger straight back and not having sights move until the bang. I bet for 80% of shooters that do not feel comfortable with a TDA, it isn't so much the transition as it is the first shot. At the range, I do not see a lot of people that are dead-eye-dick with a revolver that then can't shoot a TDA because of the transition. Good luck on getting consensus on the safety issue - probably hard to get verifiable data on that. I know the first time I shot my Dad's Kimber 1911, the 3 burst rodeo it took me on, you would have thought the thing was fully automatic.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I have had kind of a weird evolution for duty/carry guns...

Started on a Smith 681 L frame for uniform carry on an armored truck, with a Smith 649 as a BUG/EDC gun. Then switched to an HK USP DA/SA .45 for duty carry, and still the 649 for BUG/EDC. Later switched to a G19 for duty/EDC once full cap mags were available to the lowly civilians, and BUG'd the same 649.

Now, I EDC a 19 and use the same 649 or it's alloy brethren as a BUG/light duty EDC. I recently started using Tom's SCD in the 19, and I love it.

I have dabbled in the M&P world, and I also have excursions into the CZ PO7, P30SK, SIG DAK and Beretta 92 worlds. But I keep coming back to the 19.

For a long time, I honestly wanted to hate the 19 just because it was so ubiquitous. Now, I think that's a strength. It's become the real, "people's," pistol. Parts, mags, holsters and infrastructure available worldwide. That's pretty cool.

I'll most likely sell off my TDA stuff, and use the funds to pay off that old bitch, Sallie Mae.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LittleLebowski]

I have had kind of a weird evolution for duty/carry guns...

Started on a Smith 681 L frame for uniform carry on an armored truck, with a Smith 649 as a BUG/EDC gun. Then switched to an HK USP DA/SA .45 for duty carry, and still the 649 for BUG/EDC. Later switched to a G19 for duty/EDC once full cap mags were available to the lowly civilians, and BUG'd the same 649.

Now, I EDC a 19 and use the same 649 or it's alloy brethren as a BUG/light duty EDC. I recently started using Tom's SCD in the 19, and I love it.

I have dabbled in the M&P world, and I also have excursions into the CZ PO7, P30SK, SIG DAK and Beretta 92 worlds. But I keep coming back to the 19.

For a long time, I honestly wanted to hate the 19 just because it was so ubiquitous. Now, I think that's a strength. It's become the real, "people's," pistol. Parts, mags, holsters and infrastructure available worldwide. That's pretty cool.

I'll most likely sell off my TDA stuff, and use the funds to pay off that old bitch, Sallie Mae.


All roads lead to the G19.

[Robinson]

All roads lead to the G19.

If all the Lightweight Commanders and aluminum-framed TDA pistols vanished somehow then I would find a Glock and move on. But I'd pick a G17 over the G19 I reckon.

[MSparks909]

All roads lead to the G19.

Or from it. It is indisputably the standard that all others are judged against.

[BobLoblaw]

I struggle with trigger reach. I started with flinch-inducing Glock 40s and then dabbled in 1911s for a while. My soon-to-be wife gifted me a 9mm P30 LEM (she's the best) but I retired it to the safe due to my inability to shoot it well SHO/WHO. Then I stuck with Glock 19s/17s for a couple years even though I heel the shit out of that G19 grip. Went to the VP9 for about a year before the Gadget released and came back to the old dog G19 solely due to the Gadget. After shooting the PX4 CC a couple outings, I'm impressed (I might even go further than that). I attribute the performance boost to gains in grip strength (gym time paying off), a flatter shooting gun, and a setup well-suited for my hand size. Plus, not having to rack the slide during dry fire is really nice. More data is required, but so far the PX4 CC has been a real gem.

I voted for everything because I switched back and forth so the lack of a hammer is not a deal-breaker but having it (or the Gadget) is a great feature.

[JHC]

A another new hammer gun on the way it appears:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRMA_2BM-J8&feature=share

Springfield Armory. To announce at the NRA show this weekend?

[MSparks909]

A another new hammer gun on the way it appears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRMA_2BM-J8&feature=share

Springfield Armory. To announce at the NRA show this weekend?

Looks to be a tilting barrel from the last image in the video. Here's the best image I could get while pausing the video
15916

[MattyD380]

Looks to be a tilting barrel from the last image in the video. Here's the best image I could get while pausing the video
15916

Oh. Interesting. This got my attention.

Looks like maybe a loaded chamber indicator behind the barrel hood? Silhouette seems roughly XDish.

[Sigfan26]

A another new hammer gun on the way it appears: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRMA_2BM-J8&feature=share

Springfield Armory. To announce at the NRA show this weekend?

Probably gonna be called Disciple and be sold with Saint rifles.

[spinmove_]

Oh. Interesting. This got my attention.

Looks like maybe a loaded chamber indicator behind the barrel hood? Silhouette seems roughly XDish.

Except that it's a hammer fired pistol. It's also got a fiber front sight, hopefully they ditched the white dots on the rear sight to pair with it. Could be interesting. Could be "meh" like the Saint. I'll wait until we see something more concrete apart from hype videos with blurred firearms and name tags.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[MattyD380]

Except that it's a hammer fired pistol. It's also got a fiber front sight, hopefully they ditched the white dots on the rear sight to pair with it. Could be interesting. Could be "meh" like the Saint. I'll wait until we see something more concrete apart from hype videos with blurred firearms and name tags.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

I'm fully prepared for "meh."

But I'm still curious...

Maybe it's some super heavily modified 1911? But it does appear to have the "blocky barrel hood in the ejection port" lockup. Which I don't think I've ever seen on any 1911ish pistol.

Or maybe it's, like, a reskin of some existing DA/SA pistol design.

Or maybe it's a straight up XD with a hammer.

[spinmove_]

I'm fully prepared for "meh."

But I'm still curious...

Maybe it's some super heavily modified 1911? But it does appear to have the "blocky barrel hood in the ejection port" lockup. Which I don't think I've ever seen on any 1911ish pistol.

Or maybe it's, like, a reskin of some existing DA/SA pistol design.

Or maybe it's a straight up XD with a hammer.

Rob mentions something along the lines of "we wanted to do something completely different". I'm not sure what you could do that is completely different that isn't either a Hudson or some wild variation of LEM/DAK, but I guess we'll see. I swear to God if it has "Grip Zone" on the side of the frame though...

[vaspence]

My normal go to is going to be a Glock of some ilk G19, G26 or G43. That said, while waiting on the gadget I happened into a V3 P30sk last summer. I truly enjoy shooting that gun and it fits a role between G26 and G19 for me concealment wise. I'm faster in all respects with the G19 and it may be only in my mind, I but think practice with the HK has only helped my Glock shooting. End of the day G19/G26 with Gadget for me.

[MattyD380]

Rob mentions something along the lines of "we wanted to do something completely different". I'm not sure what you could do that is completely different that isn't either a Hudson or some wild variation of LEM/DAK, but I guess we'll see. I swear to God if it has "Grip Zone" on the side of the frame though...

Hahaha.

Or has some vaguely ecclesiastical reference in the nomenclature.

[spinmove_]

Hahaha.

Or has some vaguely ecclesiastical reference in the nomenclature.

So long as it's not "The Judas"...


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[TheNewbie]

The sad thing is the spring field marketing works. I'm glad they make money, I just wish people in the gun world could tone down the goof as it relates to guns.

[Balisong]

The sad thing is the spring field marketing works. I'm glad they make money, I just wish people in the gun world could tone down the goof as it relates to guns.

My eyes hurt from rolling so hard. I don't understand the necessity of a "teaser" video of a blurred out gun. Just show the damn thing when you're ready. I'm certainly not on the edge of my seat analyzing every frame trying to figure out the next Springfield offering. Marketing like this breaks the needle on the Douche Meter

[M2CattleCo]

I wouldn't sneak up on my sister's guard dog, be more aware of your surroundings. As I said, "good luck."

This wasn't a guard dog. It was an undisciplined pit bull.

It wouldn't let me out of my truck when I drove up to the house, and was subsequently supposed to live on a chain or in the house. That was strike one and I should have killed it the first time it growled at me. After that, it went across the road and ran two of my bulls ($5K each) until they gave out and went into a stock tank. The dog was swimming around them biting at them when someone got the dog off. That was strike two and I should have killed him at strike one.

That's why when my sister called me to check out the water well I assumed the dog was restrained.

The other pit I shot over a year ago killed at least one of my calves and SEVEN of my neighbor's. That's easily $4K worth of gross income in one morning.

[Jared]

All roads lead to the G19.

Ton of truth there. Take me, majority of my stuff is hammer fired. But back in November, I shot a friend's FNX45 with a red dot and I really liked it. I didn't wanna start shelling out money for 45 ammo, so I went and got a G19 MOS. I reasoned that it was about the least expensive option out there for a factory red dot ready package. If I end up not liking the dot, I can take it off and have a G19 Gen4, with all the pros and cons that entails (more pro than con).

But it speaks to the G19 ubiquity that the first thing I thought when I was shooting my friends gun was to get a G19 MOS to further explore the red dot vs some of the other optic friendly guns out there.

[TheNewbie]

This wasn't a guard dog. It was an undisciplined pit bull.

It wouldn't let me out of my truck when I drove up to the house, and was subsequently supposed to live on a chain or in the house. That was strike one and I should have killed it the first time it growled at me. After that, it went across the road and ran two of my bulls ($5K each) until they gave out and went into a stock tank. The dog was swimming around them biting at them when someone got the dog off. That was strike two and I should have killed him at strike one.

That's why when my sister called me to check out the water well I assumed the dog was restrained.

The other pit I shot over a year ago killed at least one of my calves and SEVEN of my neighbor's. That's easily $4K worth of gross income in one morning.

I had a Pitt bull charge me on duty once. It was scary and I was getting ready to shoot it but it's chain stopped it. I never saw the chain until the dog got yanked back by it. Talk about tunnel vision by me. This was on a back porch as well.

[GAP]

This wasn't a guard dog. It was an undisciplined pit bull.

It wouldn't let me out of my truck when I drove up to the house, and was subsequently supposed to live on a chain or in the house. That was strike one and I should have killed it the first time it growled at me. After that, it went across the road and ran two of my bulls ($5K each) until they gave out and went into a stock tank. The dog was swimming around them biting at them when someone got the dog off. That was strike two and I should have killed him at strike one.

That's why when my sister called me to check out the water well I assumed the dog was restrained.

The other pit I shot over a year ago killed at least one of my calves and SEVEN of my neighbor's. That's easily $4K worth of gross income in one morning.

Alright, sorry for jumping down your throat.

I probably overreacted due to seeing unnecessary force used against dogs in the past, coupled with having a bad day, not enough coffee, or some other excuse.

[BillSWPA]

I had a Pitt bull charge me on duty once. It was scary and I was getting ready to shoot it but it's chain stopped it. I never saw the chain until the dog got yanked back by it. Talk about tunnel vision by me. This was on a back porch as well.

One of the two dogs I had as a kid was a mixed breed with a significant amount of lab. She was a very friendly dog, but once managed to break a chain choker collar. While I would not shoot a chained dog, I would be prepared for the possibility that the chain does not hold.

[MattyD380]

The sad thing is the spring field marketing works. I'm glad they make money, I just wish people in the gun world could tone down the goof as it relates to guns.

You think it really works? Or do people just look past the hokey names to see a gun that has what they're looking for?

Different consumers, I guess. But I think these companies underestimate the amount of gun buyers who think things like Grip Zones, Creeds and Legions are silly. Even some that actually buy those models... for other reasons.

I think transparency and authenticity are far better marketing tools than themed names--especially in the gun industry. That cool video that Arex did comes to mind. Seeing the sophistication of their facility immediately gave me a sense of trust. Even in a no-name brand.

[TheNewbie]

You think it really works? Or do people just look past the hokey names to see a gun that has what they're looking for?

Different consumers, I guess. But I think these companies underestimate the amount of gun buyers who think things like Grip Zones, Creeds and Legions are silly. Even some that actually buy those models... for other reasons.

I think transparency and authenticity are far better marketing tools than themed names--especially in the gun industry. That cool video that Arex did comes to mind. Seeing the sophistication of their facility immediately gave me a sense of trust. Even in a no-name brand.

Yes I do ,though I think you are right too. I say it because of what I see at the gun range. Not that I am a better/superior person, just that a lot of "goofiness" is observed at the run range and gun stores.


I agree that a better strategy would be a straight forward product.

[MattyD380]

Not that I am a better/superior person, just that a lot of "goofiness" is observed at the run range and gun stores.

Yeah, good point. We're not the typical gun buyers, I suppose.

[Drang]

RE: whatever it is that Springfield is about to unleash on an unsuspecting world.

Except that there are suspicions. View From The Porch: I can't say much, but... (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2017/04/i-cant-say-much-but.html)

If Tam says

I don't think that I'll get in trouble for saying that I legit thought it was coolthen I probably wont be selling all my pistolas to buy whatever it is, but it's almost certainly pretty cool.

[LockedBreech]

I have switched to striker-fired 9mm everything (G17, G19, G26, PPS M1) because I got tired of swapping and tinkering and ammo comparing and just decided 9mms with 124 +P Gold Dot would neatly cover all bases.

However, that is due to how I shoot with a pistol. The DA first shot is tremendously difficult to me on a hammer-fired gun, and the Glock striker trigger, in all its mundane so-so nature, is very easy for me to shoot well.

I think there are many hammer-fired guns that deserve a carry if you can shoot well with them. The PX4 series is my favorite.

[Tamara]

I'm certainly not on the edge of my seat analyzing every frame trying to figure out the next Springfield offering.

And yet people have been doing just that.

[Tamara]

The sad thing is the spring field marketing works. I'm glad they make money, I just wish people in the gun world could tone down the goof as it relates to guns.

It works with cars and video game consoles and cell phones, why should guns be different?

I mean, I don't dig it either, but apparently my tastes and preferences are not in the majority. I'm okay with that.

[spinmove_]

It works with cars and video game consoles and cell phones, why should guns be different?

I mean, I don't dig it either, but apparently my tastes and preferences are not in the majority. I'm okay with that.

Agreed. Cheesy or not, I just hope what they're bringing to the table this time around is more solid than their XD stuff.

I mean my preferred carry/HD pistol is supposed to be Teutonic "Perfection". If that isn't a healthy chunk of dairy off the old marketing wheel I'm not sure what is...


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[LittleLebowski]

This wasn't a guard dog. It was an undisciplined pit bull.

It wouldn't let me out of my truck when I drove up to the house, and was subsequently supposed to live on a chain or in the house. That was strike one and I should have killed it the first time it growled at me. After that, it went across the road and ran two of my bulls ($5K each) until they gave out and went into a stock tank. The dog was swimming around them biting at them when someone got the dog off. That was strike two and I should have killed him at strike one.

That's why when my sister called me to check out the water well I assumed the dog was restrained.

The other pit I shot over a year ago killed at least one of my calves and SEVEN of my neighbor's. That's easily $4K worth of gross income in one morning.

Seven calves, goddamn. Get any recompense?

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

I carry a USP compact as a belt gun and Glock 42 as a pocket rocket.

I'm not biased one way or the other but tend to prefer hammer-fired guns. Having a hammer to pin when holstering is a nice feature while I also love DA/SA and DAO. Sure, either can exist in a striker gun, but I've yet to meet one I care about.

I didn't choose the USPc for its hammer (on any level beyond a bonus holstering safety) but rather the mags, grip, paddle release, and availability of LEM. Likewise, I didn't choose the Glock for its striker despite having been taught centerfire pistol on a 22. I chose it because I could run it better out of the box than I could my cramped LCP after years and a few thousand rounds. I just view hammers and strikers as two valid systemss to consider but so many other design elements make a bigger difference.

[BaiHu]

RE: whatever it is that Springfield is about to unleash on an unsuspecting world.

Except that there are suspicions. View From The Porch: I can't say much, but... (https://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2017/04/i-cant-say-much-but.html)

If Tam says
then I probably wont be selling all my pistolas to buy whatever it is, but it's almost certainly pretty cool.
Sidebar:
1) Wtf is up with the "blurred" words on their name tags? The gun is so secret we can't know its name?
2) Am I the only one who thought of Borat? Like if we dared to remove the blur we'd reveal an airsoft firing black dildo?
3) Maybe I'm the marketing dolt, but when I see shit like this, I think derp. I mean why not just have it at area 5...I mean an undisclosed location while everyone is wearing hijabs of tinfoil and using digitized voices at this point?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

1) Wtf is up with the "blurred" words on their name tags? The gun is so secret we can't know its name?

Maybe they thought giving its name would narrow down what it is too much.

I get that you don't like playing guessing games. I don't either. But some people seem to be having fun with it and who am I to begrudge them that?

15957

[BaiHu]

Maybe they thought giving its name would narrow down what it is too much.

I get that you don't like playing guessing games. I don't either. But some people seem to be having fun with it and who am I to begrudge them that?

15957
Like you said, I'm glad I'm not that target audience. I'll take a cup of real coffee over the promise of some youthful elixir made by elves.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[TheNewbie]

It works with cars and video game consoles and cell phones, why should guns be different?

I mean, I don't dig it either, but apparently my tastes and preferences are not in the majority. I'm okay with that.

You're right it does work but can't I dream! In my dream world Taurus is a reliable firearms manufacturer and it's safe to drink the water in Mexico.

[breakingtime91]

We might not like the marketing because most of us are pessimists but many seem to be enjoying it. I know some of my friends who I consider hobbyists that are excited about it. My negativity towards everything gun industry lately is slowly telling me that I need to take a breath and go off comms for awhile.

[JHC]

We might not like the marketing because most of us are pessimists but many seem to be enjoying it. I know some of my friends who I consider hobbyists that are excited about it. My negativity towards everything gun industry lately is slowly telling me that I need to take a breath and go off comms for awhile.

The excitement and the cynicism follows the universal gun culture pattern doesn't it? It's all good. :D

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Maybe they thought giving its name would narrow down what it is too much.

I get that you don't like playing guessing games. I don't either. But some people seem to be having fun with it and who am I to begrudge them that?

15957

I'm gonna save that cartoon to remind me to be less of a smartass!

In the video it looked like there was a fair bit of recoil. I heard they were coming out with a 10mm XD, maybe they decided to go hammer fired 10mm?

[JHC]

Todd LOVED to do the blurred image/guessing game/contest thing. He did it every year before announcing what gun he was going to be shooting that year -- and it wasn't even a new gun, just the next preexisting model he was going to shoot.

People, PF and PTC people included, ate that shit up and it generated some of the highest pageviews and comments of any of his posts. People/companies do it because it works. It doesn't work across all demographics all the time, but it almost always works with the intended target market.

Good times! It was a hoot!

[Jared]

Todd LOVED to do the blurred image/guessing game/contest thing. He did it every year before announcing what gun he was going to be shooting that year -- and it wasn't even a new gun, just the next preexisting model he was going to shoot.

People, PF and PTC people included, ate that shit up and it generated some of the highest pageviews and comments of any of his posts. People/companies do it because it works. It doesn't work across all demographics all the time, but it almost always works with the intended target market.

Truth. I also remember when this place was going nuts as tiny fragments of the Wilson Beretta Brig Tac were being unveiled. Tiny little blocks snipped from one photo, and a lot of PF was in full guessing game mode.

[Malamute]

One of the two dogs I had as a kid was a mixed breed with a significant amount of lab. She was a very friendly dog, but once managed to break a chain choker collar. While I would not shoot a chained dog, I would be prepared for the possibility that the chain does not hold.

This may be more appropriate for the other dog thread currently going,....

The world seems full of dog collars with crappy plastic hardware. Plastic quick release buckles and adjusting slides in particular. I wouldnt have one if it was free and came with a $100 bill attached. I happily paid about 3 or 4 x the price of the crappy plastic hardware models for the type and color I wanted. A collar that breaks at an inopportune moment could be the end of your dog, for several reasons, and not necessarily your dogs fault or a problem dog. I also wouldn't totally trust some other dogs collar to hold them if they get excited.

[BillSWPA]

This may be more appropriate for the other dog thread currently going,....

The world seems full of dog collars with crappy plastic hardware. Plastic quick release buckles and adjusting slides in particular. I wouldnt have one if it was free and came with a $100 bill attached. I happily paid about 3 or 4 x the price of the crappy plastic hardware models for the type and color I wanted. A collar that breaks at an inopportune moment could be the end of your dog, for several reasons, and not necessarily your dogs fault or a problem dog. I also wouldn't totally trust some other dogs collar to hold them if they get excited.

Very true. In the case of my dogs, that collar's main purpose is to enable me to keep the dog away from traffic.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MGW]

I hated the Legion adds and talked a lot of crap on Sig because of the adds. (and now I own one. Go figure.) The Springfield thing doesn't bother me at all. Now, after they do the actual release I have every right to change my mind.

[TheNewbie]

Todd LOVED to do the blurred image/guessing game/contest thing. He did it every year before announcing what gun he was going to be shooting that year -- and it wasn't even a new gun, just the next preexisting model he was going to shoot.

People, PF and PTC people included, ate that shit up and it generated some of the highest pageviews and comments of any of his posts. People/companies do it because it works. It doesn't work across all demographics all the time, but it almost always works with the intended target market.


Nothing like being reminded that you did the very thing you are now making fun of. Lol Do I have to eat crow on this one?

[JHC]

I hated the Legion adds and talked a lot of crap on Sig because of the adds. (and now I own one. Go figure.) The Springfield thing doesn't bother me at all. Now, after they do the actual release I have every right to change my mind.

A new Springfield Armory teaser just got released.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM25-lz1Yms