Walther PPQ

[Wes Peart]

Been debating picking one of these up for a while. Finally dropped the hammer and laid out the money for one earlier, followed it up with a range trip.

First I just want to say that my overall impression of this gun is that it is the cat's ass.

It came with 2 mags, a test target and the usual assorted junk. As is typical with most German handguns the test target consists of one ragged hole at 15m. The magazines are steel with plastic baseplates and are very well made. They are coated and drop free easily. The bodies are VERY sturdy, no flex at all and the followers are very slick- you can load right up to 15 and it feels like you could fit 5 more in. Much easier to load than Glock mags. Additional mags are pricey, around $40-50 a piece but that's nothing new to HK and Sig guys.

It has probably one of the most comfortable grips I've ever laid hands on. Much more ergonomic than the M&P (to me). It "points" very naturally, much like a 1911. I don't find myself having to slightly break my natural wrist position at full extension like I do with a Glock. All the controls are very accessible and are mirrored on each side exactly which is a boon for those of you that are lefties. The slide release is a little stiff but I think that will change with some more range time. Some people have reported finding it difficult to not hit it while shooting but I didn't find that to be a problem at all. I'm loving the paddle style mag release, very easy to engage with my trigger finger or thumb. I've used button releases all my life but after using the PPQ's I don't think it will take much convincing to convert.

The sights are the plastic 3 dot variety but adequate. Had no trouble putting 10 rds into the 10 ring of a B8 at 15 yards, got rained out before I could go to 25. I will say it is noticeably more accurate than my 19, I think I'll easily be able to beat the 256/300 I shot on the last DOTW with it. People have reported any sights that work on the P99 work on the PPQ so steel night sights are available but nothing cool like Heinies, Hacks, Sevignys, etc.

One of the big gripes I've seen people have with the PPQ is the recoil. Shooting it and my 19 side by side it does have more muzzle flip but it's a very brief, fast impulse that settles down quickly. I don't have a shot timer so I couldn't tell you what the difference in splits is but going by "feel" (yeah, I know) the PPQ sure doesn't feel any slower and may in fact be a hair quicker shot to shot. Ejection is consistent as clockwork and strong, ran 200rds of Tula and Federal Champion 9mm through it with no malfunctions.

The trigger is.. interesting. Think a fairly smooth 3ish pound takeup that suddenly turns into a glass rod 4.5-5lb break with very little overtravel. The reset is phenomenal, it's so short that by the time you've realized you've started to let the trigger forward it has already reset itself. Very positive and strong reset. It is a very workable trigger, the take up and break are close enough in weight that it isn't difficult to press it all the way through without disturbing the sight picture. Didn't have any problems with snatching during pressouts and while doing a couple hundred dry fires later.

Overall if I can run another thousand or so through it without any issues I'll have no trouble whatsoever throwing my Glock under the bus for the PPQ. It's much easier to shoot accurately, has better ergos, a better mag release, a better trigger and is just as easy to hide. I look forward to putting more rounds through it and seeing how things turn out.

[JodyH]

Nice, if it's anything like my P99 you'll have years of boringly reliable shooting to look forward to.
If I wasn't carrying AIWB i'd be carrying a PPQ right now, but that trigger is just too slick for comfort when the backstop is my femoral.

[guymontag]

Great review!


Additional mags are pricey, around $40-50 a piece but that's nothing new to HK and Sig guys.

Magnum Research magazines retail for around thirty dollars.

[GJM]

Nice, if it's anything like my P99 you'll have years of boringly reliable shooting to look forward to.
If I wasn't carrying AIWB i'd be carrying a PPQ right now, but that trigger is just too slick for comfort when the backstop is my femoral.

Slick compared to the P2000 or slick compared to a Glock with a - connector, and is it the weight of the PPQ or the short travel that concerns you?

[JodyH]

It's the combination of a <5# pull, short trigger travel and no way to "put a thumb" on it.
While I would carry a Glock (-/NY1) AIWB, I prefer the added safety layer with a hammer fired H&K LEM.
Being able to ride the hammer with my thumb gives me the warm fuzzies.

[matman]

I'm In the market for a nice deep concealment (running wearing a belly handgun). I have he'd debating the PPS/PPQ, Kahr CW/CMseries or maybe going the revolver route. The gun currently in that role is my KT P32 (I have 0 confidence in its ability to either function 100% of the time of stop a determined adversary). How would this pistol fair in such a position? Seems the PPQ would be nice due to the lower initial cost, but the PPS could make up in ammo cost/commonality. Any other issues I'm missing ishouldconsider here?

My EDC is a Glock 9mm 99% of the time when I'm home now so 9mm is galore for me.

[Wes Peart]

I'm In the market for a nice deep concealment (running wearing a belly handgun). I have he'd debating the PPS/PPQ, Kahr CW/CMseries or maybe going the revolver route. The gun currently in that role is my KT P32 (I have 0 confidence in its ability to either function 100% of the time of stop a determined adversary). How would this pistol fair in such a position? Seems the PPQ would be nice due to the lower initial cost, but the PPS could make up in ammo cost/commonality. Any other issues I'm missing ishouldconsider here?

My EDC is a Glock 9mm 99% of the time when I'm home now so 9mm is galore for me.

The PPQ is a service sized pistol, bigger than a G19 but not quite as big as a 17. Not really a belly gun. The PPS is a compact, it might better suit you. I've never used one but have never heard anything bad about them either.

[digiadaamore]

The PPQ is a service sized pistol, bigger than a G19 but not quite as big as a 17. Not really a belly gun. The PPS is a compact, it might better suit you. I've never used one but have never heard anything bad about them either.

i just got my ppq and have long been a walther guy with the p99. the number one thing i say is the stats on paper are lies:D i dont know how they do it but they are service sized guns as said and definetly bigger than a g19 even though the stats are similar

[SouthNarc]

I've got a PPS with 1500+ rounds through it at this point and that gun runs like a scalded ape. I easily shoot that pistol as well as I do a full size gun. I can bang a 6" plate at 25 yards all day long with it. Grant at G&R Tactical put night sights on it for me and also did a trigger job that probably shaves about a pound off the weight and got rid of the little bit of grit it had.

For me, being a small guy, the PPS is noticeably more concealable when I want to wear clothes that are closer fitting to the body.

Great gun overall.

[NickA]

I've got a PPS with 1500+ rounds through it at this point and that gun runs like a scalded ape. I easily shoot that pistol as well as I do a full size gun. I can bang a 6" plate at 25 yards all day long with it. Grant at G&R Tactical put night sights on it for me and also did a trigger job that probably shaves about a pound off the weight and got rid of the little bit of grit it had.

For me, being a small guy, the PPS is noticeably more concealable when I want to wear clothes that are closer fitting to the body.

Great gun overall.

I just got done talking myself OUT of buying a PPS. You're not helping, SN ;)

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[SouthNarc]

Sorry dude! The two guns I CCW the most these days are a Gen 2 G19 and the PPS.

[JM Campbell]

Ohh man I almost know where my next bonus is going.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[JodyH]

I've got a PPS with 1500+ rounds through it at this point and that gun runs like a scalded ape. I easily shoot that pistol as well as I do a full size gun. I can bang a 6" plate at 25 yards all day long with it. Grant at G&R Tactical put night sights on it for me and also did a trigger job that probably shaves about a pound off the weight and got rid of the little bit of grit it had.

For me, being a small guy, the PPS is noticeably more concealable when I want to wear clothes that are closer fitting to the body.

Great gun overall.
Have you had any problems with the backstraps?
We were running some live fire drills with a punching bag one time and the guy with the PPS had his backstrap come off and disable the gun.
Never happened again, but that one time was enough for me to stick with my Kahr.

[SouthNarc]

No problems with the backstraps yet Jody (knock on wood). Honestly I've done time on the Kahr and subjectively there's just no comparison to the PPS. Especially since Grant slicked that trigger.

[JodyH]

No problems with the backstraps yet Jody (knock on wood). Honestly I've done time on the Kahr and subjectively there's just no comparison to the PPS. Especially since Grant slicked that trigger.
When I shot a Glock I hated the Kahr trigger.
Now that I have a lot of time on the H&K LEM I love the Kahr trigger.

[TGS]

When I shot a Glock I hated the Kahr trigger.
Now that I have a lot of time on the H&K LEM I love the Kahr trigger.

I like my Kahr's trigger better than my PPS trigger.

Still, like SN, I find it really easy to shoot the PPS well, and generally think the quality is higher. There's some small touches that I like better, such as the striker indicator and mag release too (granted those are only preferences). The PPS is a little bigger, but I find it works since if I were able to pocket a CM/PM/MK9 then I'd be wearing pockets big enough to pocket my PPS as well, and I like its overall lack of sharp edges better. I found the recoil easier managed on the PPS compared to the PM9 I fired. I would rather carry my PPS, and it's on my hip right now as I await the return of my usual carry gun from Gray Guns.

One thing I've noticed about the PPS is that the trigger return is fairly weak. I wonder how it would fair if it were to be dropped in a mud puddle. Not a big concern to me, but still worth noting.

Thanks for the word on the backstrap. I'll have to do some more looking around on the interwebz on that, as well as play with it and see what happens.

[matman]

Big time oops!! I'm sorry, i mistook the ppq for that smaller .380 that they have. I personally was looking at the PPS but the things like a couple hundred bucks more at the store I went to then the .380 was. I would prefer a 9mm like this for my runs since they tend to take me far away from home and sometimes in rural areas. The .32 has keltec has left me very unimpressed during my own live tissue ballistic sessions (snakes and such) when my 9mm Glocks have had to come out and finish the game every time! This would offer me a nice lower profile option for less permissive environments as well.

Now the wheels are turning... Humm!

Sorry to take the post away from the PPQ, it must be pretty snazzy then itself, I'll have to take a peek at one the next trip I make to the big coty!

[t1tan]

I am very interested in trying the new Walthers, especially the PPS, but the biggest thing holding me back is the lack of decent sights. If there is an increase in variety, I'd pick one up instantly. I was hoping on Ameriglo had plans, but they simply said "no".

[Wes Peart]

Another range trip today, 150 rounds of Fed Champion and another 150rds of various types of older Winchester 147 Rangers I needed to shoot up. No malfunctions. Did some work on the 25 yard line, wasn't too difficult to keep almost all my rounds in the black of a B-8 replacement center at that range, definitely required less concentration to do so than my 19. Not tying to push super hard times for 2 rounds on a 3x5 from compressed ready at 7 yards were hanging around 1.5 seconds. With oiling, dryfire and range time the trigger is lightening up even more, probably down around 4lbs maybe less for the break :eek:

[LittleLebowski]

Have you had any problems with the backstraps?
We were running some live fire drills with a punching bag one time and the guy with the PPS had his backstrap come off and disable the gun.
Never happened again, but that one time was enough for me to stick with my Kahr.

Might have forgotten the pin.

[LittleLebowski]

I've got a PPS with 1500+ rounds through it at this point and that gun runs like a scalded ape. I easily shoot that pistol as well as I do a full size gun. I can bang a 6" plate at 25 yards all day long with it. Grant at G&R Tactical put night sights on it for me and also did a trigger job that probably shaves about a pound off the weight and got rid of the little bit of grit it had.

For me, being a small guy, the PPS is noticeably more concealable when I want to wear clothes that are closer fitting to the body.

Great gun overall.

The PPS is my first recommendation for a small(er?) pistol. I want another one after selling mine.

[GJM]

Thinking about my wife, the challenge for a thin woman is getting an appropriate pistol to conceal in the waist band with non range clothes. Would the PPS work in this holster, and would it be enough thinner than her Glock 26 to matter?

http://garrettindustries.mybigcommerce.com/silent-thunder-slim-ii-appendix-carry/

[GJM]

I spent an hour handling, drawing and dry firing a PPQ yesterday. I was interested in checking out a PPQ, but prepared to be underwhelmed.

All I can say is that I was completely blown away. While I didn't live fire it, and get results on a timer, it has the best set of attributes of any pistol I have handled for the kind of shooting I like -- PF oriented drills, Rogers range and one hand shooting. In particular, the trigger was outstanding, and should be incredible for low probability targets and one hand shooting. Felt just over five pounds, and with great feel and the amount of roll I like. No issues for me with the mag release, using my index finger.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I just surpassed 1300 rounds with mine, I purchased it towards the end of December. Coming from DA/SA, the trigger is simply outstanding.

[LittleLebowski]

I'm glad to see these getting some serious use. If I was in the market for a new service pistol, I'd be sorely tempted by one of these.

[GJM]

and, how has accuracy, reliability and your performance with it been?

[gtmtnbiker98]

and, how has accuracy, reliability and your performance with it been?Learning curve, quite honestly. I am not shooting at reset, I'm letting the trigger out way too far!! This is the result of using TDA HK's exclusively for the last two years. Actually going on three years. Once I get the trigger manipulation down, all will be good. As for accuracy, low probability targets are a snap and you can really let loose on bill drills with minimal effort. I've managed 1300-rounds in three range visits and of course, each of these range trips were met with miserable weather.

Haven't had the clock out, focusing on the basics first prior to introducing the clock. The clock always forces me to get sloppy and I am really focusing on getting well acquainted with this firearm before timing the drills. Dot Torture is a piece of cake out to 7-yards with this one, I've managed several 48's and 49's, still seeking the illusive 50/50.

The gun is dead nuts reliable so far. No failures to lock back, no FTF's or FTE's. The gun is running like a Swiss watch. I currently have 600 through it without cleaning, have only cleaned it once in the 1300-rounds of ownership. Weapon was purchased on Dec. 21 and cleaned that day. The weapon has surpassed my typical vetting for EDC. I'm a happy camper.

I am switching from the P30/HK45c to the PPQ. I've reached a miserable plateau with the P30/HK45c to the point that I'm not improving, even worse, I started backsliding. I've never broke the 6 Sec barrier with the P30 clean and have finally realized that it's time for a change. Not abandoning, just changing it up a bit.

[GJM]

That is a terrific report!

On the holster front, I was in touch with Dale Fricke this morning, and he will make his Archangel, Gideon and mag pouches for it.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Then there's the holster issue. Ironically, the holsters designed for the P30 and HK45c will work with the PPQ in terms of leather, all of my kydex holsters are a "no go." I am ordering a High Noon holster for the PPQ and I will be carrying this in the 3 O'Clock position and not 12:30. Sorry, I'm just not that brave! The ole' "[screw] up and you'll die" quote from Todd is quit applicable to the PPQ. Zero margin of error with the PPQ.

Other makers are coming onboard, slowly. I'm not one who recommends using holsters designed for other pistols and I have only done this on the range to get me by until I can order a decent holster.

[Chris17404]

Is carrying the PPQ in the AIWB position really that much different in terms of ND threat than carrying a Glock 19 or S&W M&P? I currently carry a G19 with a 3.5lb connector in a Dale Fricke Archangel and am not worried when drawing or re-holstering. I respect the gun's capabilities, am cautious, and pay attention.

Chris

[JodyH]

With H&K's recent price increases on the P series and Glocks inability to get their 9mm's squared away my next set of hard use handguns will more than likely be Walther PPQ's.
Historically I get about a 3-5 year run with a platform before I feel the need for new blood. Both from the mechanical and the mental side.
The guns reach the end of their service life and I start to hit a performance plateau due to "boredom" for lack of a better term.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[YVK]

Is carrying the PPQ in the AIWB position really that much different in terms of ND threat than carrying a Glock 19 or S&W M&P? I currently carry a G19 with a 3.5lb connector in a Dale Fricke Archangel and am not worried when drawing or re-holstering. I respect the gun's capabilities, am cautious, and pay attention.

Chris

My Glock is set like yours, and PPQ felt lighter and shorter. Somebody has got to take the subjectivity out and use a pull gauge on one.

What I am interested is if P99 slide's backplate is backwards-compatible with a PPQ, so the striker could be controlled with a thumb.

[guymontag]

What I am interested is if P99 slide's backplate is backwards-compatible with a PPQ, so the striker could be controlled with a thumb.

It is. However to perform the above, in addition to purchasing the P99 backplate, one would also need to purchase the P99 striker.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Is carrying the PPQ in the AIWB position really that much different in terms of ND threat than carrying a Glock 19 or S&W M&P? I currently carry a G19 with a 3.5lb connector in a Dale Fricke Archangel and am not worried when drawing or re-holstering. I respect the gun's capabilities, am cautious, and pay attention.

ChrisNo. Just well beyond "my comfort zone."

[gtmtnbiker98]

My Glock is set like yours, and PPQ felt lighter and shorter. Somebody has got to take the subjectivity out and use a pull gauge on one.

What I am interested is if P99 slide's backplate is backwards-compatible with a PPQ, so the striker could be controlled with a thumb.4.4 oz is where my trigger is resting right now. Overall travel is less than .5".

[F-Trooper05]

Looks like this gun might be a game changer. Do you think the trigger is too light for most PD's comfort zone?

[YVK]

4.4 oz is where my trigger is resting right now. Overall travel is less than .5".

Other than with 1911, 4.25 lbs trigger is well below my comfort zone for any carry, let alone aiwb. It actually is below my comfort even for 1911. Not criticizing your choice in any way, these things are very personal, but i'll be watching ppq from sidelines. Well behind shooters' backs.

[Comedian]

Other than with 1911, 4.25 lbs trigger is well below my comfort zone for any carry, let alone aiwb. It actually is below my comfort even for 1911. Not criticizing your choice in any way, these things are very personal, but i'll be watching ppq from sidelines. Well behind shooters' backs.

Agree. I shot a friends PPQ on Sunday and i was getting unintentional double taps with it, occasionally. That doesn't happen to me with my Glock's, or any other semi auto's, for that matter. I wonder if their is a way to make the pull heavier on the PPQ?

[GJM]

While the trigger weight gauge may show something else, I can't tell the difference in trigger weight between a M&P 9 FS with stock trigger, stock Gen 4 21 with the dot connector, and the PPQ. What I can tell, easily, is the feel of the trigger -- and the PPQ is in a class of its own in this regard.

I view muzzle discipline as the most important rule, and don't view small increments in trigger weight to be a significant safety factor. That side, while the reset of the PPQ is short, the initial travel of the PPQ feels longer than a stock Glock trigger.

[GJM]

Per an email today, Rich at Custom Carry Concepts will make the Shaggy and mag pouches for the PPQ.

[SecondsCount]

One of the match directors that I shoot with just got one in 9mm and let me shoot it tonight. The trigger was crisp and felt more like a single action trigger than a striker trigger.

What mostly impressed me was the recoil. With the angle and placement of the grip, the gun wanted to push back rather than rise.

[JAD]

4.4 oz is where my trigger is resting right now. Overall travel is less than .5".

Hey, just like my lightweight commander.

[Tamara]

Hey, just like my lightweight commander.
Only without the, you know, manual safeties. :eek:

[JAD]

Only without the, you know, manual safeties. :eek:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT181SlLG0XcxWzfJlun4z_OHhRIoPgF Mww3Nsx-iib19m57ecVGqPXWh3C

[gtmtnbiker98]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT181SlLG0XcxWzfJlun4z_OHhRIoPgF Mww3Nsx-iib19m57ecVGqPXWh3CNice.

[joshs]

What I am interested is if P99 slide's backplate is backwards-compatible with a PPQ, so the striker could be controlled with a thumb.

I thought the PPQ striker was fully cocked at rest, so thumbing the striker wouldn't prevent its release.

[YVK]

I thought the PPQ striker was fully cocked at rest, so thumbing the striker wouldn't prevent its release.

Josh, I've no clue, I was just speculating it was possible.

[GJM]

I thought the PPQ striker was fully cocked at rest, so thumbing the striker wouldn't prevent its release.

Anyone have more info on this? My buddy just scrounged up two sets of the P99 striker and back plate for us to put on the PPQ, and hopefully this wasn't wasted effort.

[JV_]

Anyone have more info on this?Nothing official, but that was my understanding as well.

[JV_]

Official:

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=13152&storeId=10002&productId=786514&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=769157&isFirearm=Y


100% Pre-Cocked Striker

[Tamara]

Call me a big ol' coward, but I'm not pointing a 100% pre-cocked anything at my femoral artery. :o

It ain't the odds, it's the stakes. :eek:

[SteveB]

Anyone have more info on this? My buddy just scrounged up two sets of the P99 striker and back plate for us to put on the PPQ, and hopefully this wasn't wasted effort.

Yes, I now realize that, since the striker is fully cocked, putting the P99 striker and endplate in the PPQ will do nothing to make the pistol safer during reholstering. The striker will simply be sticking out the rear of the pistol, and, since there is no cocking action by pulling the trigger, there will be no rearward movement of the striker as pressure is put on the trigger. Nice idea, won't work.

[Jac]

Call me a big ol' coward, but I'm not pointing a 100% pre-cocked anything at my femoral artery. :o

It ain't the odds, it's the stakes. :eek:

Word.

[JodyH]

Covered this in post #2

Nice, if it's anything like my P99 you'll have years of boringly reliable shooting to look forward to.
If I wasn't carrying AIWB i'd be carrying a PPQ right now, but that trigger is just too slick for comfort when the backstop is my femoral.

[GJM]

So, leaving aside the inability to change to a P99 style striker, does "pre-cocked" represent an additional risk for AIWB carry beyond the weight and travel of the trigger? In other words, is the PPQ any worse than carrying a Glock or M&P, assuming they had the same weight and travel trigger.

Is there a P99 variant, with a PPQ quality trigger, and the exposed striker like the PPS, that would otherwise be as attractive as the PPQ?

[joshs]

So, leaving aside the inability to change to a P99 style striker, does "pre-cocked" represent an additional risk for AIWB carry beyond the weight and travel of the trigger? In other words, is the PPQ any worse than carrying a Glock or M&P, assuming they had the same weight and travel trigger.

Is there a P99 variant, with a PPQ quality trigger, and the exposed striker like the PPS, that would otherwise be as attractive as the PPQ?

Not especially, but if both the sear engagement and FPB were to both fail at the same time a PPQ would fire and a Glock likely would not. While this is theoretically possible, it seems highly unlikely.

[Tamara]

Not especially, but if both the sear engagement and FPB were to both fail at the same time a PPQ would fire and a Glock likely would not. While this is theoretically possible, it seems highly unlikely.

cf. "odds/stakes". ;)

I wouldn't carry a C&L 1911 AIWB with both the thumb and grip safeties engaged because, in the vanishingly rare chance the sear nose should break, you've got a machine pistol pointed at the biggest blood vessel south of your aorta. If that's inside your risk envelope, then get down with your bad self.

Personally, I worry about vanishingly rare things; if I didn't, I wouldn't carry a gun in the first place. :o

[SteveB]

Is there a P99 variant, with a PPQ quality trigger, and the exposed striker like the PPS, that would otherwise be as attractive as the PPQ?

No. The P99AS is a DA/SA with a decocker. The P99QA has a partially cocked striker which is completely cocked when the trigger is pulled. Because the PPQ striker is completely cocked, the trigger is only operating the trigger spring and disconnector, which gives you that nice trigger and short reset.

[JodyH]

No. The P99AS is a DA/SA with a decocker. The P99QA has a partially cocked striker which is completely cocked when the trigger is pulled. Because the PPQ striker is completely cocked, the trigger is only operating the trigger spring and disconnector, which gives you that nice trigger and short reset.
The QA trigger sucks.
Think of a mushy Glock trigger with a vague, non-tactile, inconsistent reset.

[TGS]

So, leaving aside the inability to change to a P99 style striker, does "pre-cocked" represent an additional risk for AIWB carry beyond the weight and travel of the trigger? In other words, is the PPQ any worse than carrying a Glock or M&P, assuming they had the same weight and travel trigger.

I would think it does.

I was playing with my Walther PPS and the trigger doesn't have any more takeup than my GGI worked P2000 in SA......yet for some reason an HK P-series is regarded as suicidal to carry in SA without a manual safety.....I would think the only legitimate reason would be that the gun is cocked, whereas a Glock/PPS/M&P isn't cocked.

[sarge1967]

I have the PPQ in 9mm and .40.

Honestly I have not been this impressed with a pistol in a very very long time.

I got rid of my Glock 23 in favor of the PPQ in .40. My wife and 14 year old daughter use the 9mm. They both find it a joy to shoot. And they both shoot it well.

I look forward to these pistols gaining more traction here in the US so more holster manufactures will step up.

[Wes Peart]

Been shooting it a bit, just broke the 1100 round mark. No malfunctions, even using some ancient 147 flat nose cast and bullseye reloads I ran across in my shed the other day. Got some kydex from PJHolster a while back it is serving very well. There are quite a few holsters out there now for it and Dale Fricke is or will be shortly set up to make his AIWB holsters for those so inclined.

So far it's turning out to be a great pistol.

[GJM]

Right before dark this evening, I shot my first 100 rounds thru the PPQ. Three words -- oh my god! Didn't have time and light to run my normal drills, but the trigger blew me away. Shot some quick splits on the timer before the darn battery died, but .21-.22 was what I saw from the get go. Then did strong and support hand shooting as darkness fell, and the pistol felt terrific. Carried on holding the Quark in a chin index, and was banging away with one hand on a small steel at 15 and 25 yards. Tomorrow plan to do full drills and gather data on known drills, and also test Glock splits with and without the GFA.

[GJM]

Fired several hundred rounds thru the PPQ today -- it's first daylight shooting session. After firing a few rounds to check zero, I dove right into Bill drills and the FAStest. It was solid, turning in clean 5.5 FASTest's from concealment, and 2.5 second Bill drills, but it did not, as I was hoping, blow away my performance with a Glock or M&P. Because of its great trigger and accuracy, it did well on steel at 25-50 yards. No stoppages, although several times the slide didn't lock back on empty. It is very sensitive to thumb position, like a P30, and with the Glock and M&P I can be more casual with my thumbs. The trigger was more conducive to precision one hand shooting than fast one hand shooting.

In summary, it would be a great choice for someone getting a 9, but I am not sure I see it being that much better than a M&P or Glock to warrant the hassle of switching platforms, especially given how well supported the Glock and M&P are with holsters, sights and other accessories.

[Wes Peart]

Fired several hundred rounds thru the PPQ today -- it's first daylight shooting session. After firing a few rounds to check zero, I dove right into Bill drills and the FAStest. It was solid, turning in clean 5.5 FASTest's from concealment, and 2.5 second Bill drills, but it did not, as I was hoping, blow away my performance with a Glock or M&P. Because of its great trigger and accuracy, it did well on steel at 25-50 yards. No stoppages, although several times the slide didn't lock back on empty. It is very sensitive to thumb position, like a P30, and with the Glock and M&P I can be more casual with my thumbs. The trigger was more conducive to precision one hand shooting than fast one hand shooting.

In summary, it would be a great choice for someone getting a 9, but I am not sure I see it being that much better than a M&P or Glock to warrant the hassle of switching platforms, especially given how well supported the Glock and M&P are with holsters, sights and other accessories.

What's your best FAST run with any pistol? For a new, unfamiliar gun with a completely different mag release and trigger than either a Glock or M&P, 5.5 sounds pretty impressive.

[JodyH]

I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.

{gets P99 out of safe and fondles it lovingly}

Dammit...

[JRL]

I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.

{gets P99 out of safe and fondles it lovingly}

Dammit...

At least wait till it becomes the new PT test gun :P

[gtmtnbiker98]

I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.

{gets P99 out of safe and fondles it lovingly}

Dammit...
Tell me about it, Jody. I have owned mine since 12/23/11 and have a second on layaway. Dale Fricke supports them now, as well.

[GJM]

Dale just got a PPQ and PPS, so he can make a Gideon, Archangel and mag pouches. Rich at CCC can make a Shaggy and pouches for the PPQ and PPS. Also he has a Quick Cover for the PPS, which is very thin.

GT, how are you doing with one hand shooting with the Q? One thing I really like about a Glock and M&P with a DC trigger, is they roll, which is conducive to one hand shooting.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Dale just got a PPQ and PPS, so he can make a Gideon, Archangel and mag pouches. Rich at CCC can make a Shaggy and pouches for the PPQ and PPS. Also he has a Quick Cover for the PPS, which is very thin.

GT, how are you doing with one hand shooting with the Q? One thing I really like about a Glock and M&P with a DC trigger, is they roll, which is conducive to one hand shooting.Never had too much problem with one handed shooting and the PPQ is really no different. The trigger is a lot easier to manage compared to my HK's and this is my first SFA pistol in three years. So the jury is still out in terms of performance gain/decrease.

[GOP]

Im buying a PPQ today to try out for the next year, I'll probably shoot about 50-100 rounds per week through it. Not much, but it is another data point. I'll post my impressions soon.

[LittleLebowski]

If Heinie or Warren stated making straight-eight type sights for this, I'd be sorely tempted to switch.

[JM Campbell]

I'm having the same issue LB...i want to have a go on striker fired pistols but the field is dismal with the glock/m&p issues. I just don't want to roll the dice.

How are the factory night sights? Has anyone measured the blades?

Samsung Galaxy S II Skyrocket

[GOP]

I was kind of shocked at how nice the stock sights are compared to a lot of pistols. Adjustable (I do prefer fixed though), and though the Sevigny sights are thinner for sure, I think they are as good as a lot of aftermarket sights. Granted, mine are not night sights, but the plain sights seem decent. The trigger is amazing on this thing.

[JodyH]

The Walther P99 sight picture was great, far better than my H&K's.
Plenty of light around the front sight, but not too much.

I'm holding off on a PPQ until they come out with a PPQc.
There's just too many times that conditions dictate I carry my P2000Sk instead of the P30 or even the P2000.
Once the compact version comes out, I'll be on the PPQ like stink on a monkey.

[Mitchell, Esq.]

I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.
I will not be buying a PPQ.
I have too much invested in H&K's.

{gets P99 out of safe and fondles it lovingly}

Dammit...

So do you have a PPQ yet?

[Kyle Reese]

You guys aren't helping my lust for one...... :D

[GOP]

What holsters are you guys running? I need one for competition (IDPA) and AIWB/carry, and where did you get them? I emailed Dale Fricke and am waiting for a reply

[JodyH]

So do you have a PPQ yet?
Waiting on the Sub Kompact to come out before I make the switch from my H&K's.

[GJM]

What holsters are you guys running? I need one for competition (IDPA) and AIWB/carry, and where did you get them? I emailed Dale Fricke and am waiting for a reply

Dale just bought a PPQ and PPS, and can make an Archangel, Gideon and mag pouches for both pistols. Rich at Custom Carry Concepts can make the Shaggy for both pistols, and his Quick Cover for the PPS.

[digiadaamore]

For a owb competition holster this guys stuff is really well made http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/trading-post-parts-bin/18898-wts-custom-kydex-holsters-walther-ppq.html#post145625

[GOP]

For a owb competition holster this guys stuff is really well made http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/trading-post-parts-bin/18898-wts-custom-kydex-holsters-walther-ppq.html#post145625

Thanks a lot man, I just ordered from him. I'm still waiting to place my order with Dale.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Waiting on the Sub Kompact to come out before I make the switch from my H&K's.Really think they will update the PPS?

[JodyH]

Really think they will update the PPS?
No, but I do expect they'll bring out a PPQ version of the P99C, the market for that size gun is just too large to ignore... hopefully.

[GOP]

Just had my first lengthy range session with this gun - WOW. Excellent trigger, reliable thus far. I shoot it faster than my CZ, but with less accuracy one handed (2 handed is about the same). Reloads are comparable to my CZ (1.8 seconds). My impressions: this will be my next carry gun AND competition gun, it's that good to me. If you are the fence, buy one. Best kept secret in the pistol world, IMO

[digiadaamore]

Just had my first lengthy range session with this gun - WOW. Excellent trigger, reliable thus far. I shoot it faster than my CZ, but with less accuracy one handed (2 handed is about the same). Reloads are comparable to my CZ (1.8 seconds). My impressions: this will be my next carry gun AND competition gun, it's that good to me. If you are the fence, buy one. Best kept secret in the pistol world, IMO

let me know how you like that holster

[Pennzoil]

Well I'm in the PPQ club now:cool: and I'm cautiously optimistic as the pistol seems great so far. The PPQ will be replacing my M&P's if everything goes well.

[GOP]

2 questions for the guys running PPQ's:

1) What grip are you using? I'm using the thumbs forward grip and my thumb rides the slide release, causing it to not lock back on an empty mag. Is there any way to remedy this (parts, better grip, etc)? I'm a lefty, so removing the slide release on the right side wouldn't even be an issue, I'm used to hitting the slide release on the left anyway (if that is even possible). I will say that my experiments with different grips cost me to use too much or too little thumb at 25m, which really hurt my accuracy today.

2) Are there any aftermarket sights available yet?

Other than that, I love this gun. So far I'm at 500 rounds in 6 days, 0 FTE/FTF with the cheapest ammo available (literally).

[WDW]

2 questions for the guys running PPQ's:

1) What grip are you using? I'm using the thumbs forward grip and my thumb rides the slide release, causing it to not lock back on an empty mag. Is there any way to remedy this (parts, better grip, etc)? I'm a lefty, so removing the slide release on the right side wouldn't even be an issue, I'm used to hitting the slide release on the left anyway (if that is even possible). I will say that my experiments with different grips cost me to use too much or too little thumb at 25m, which really hurt my accuracy today.

2) Are there any aftermarket sights available yet?

Other than that, I love this gun. So far I'm at 500 rounds in 6 days, 0 FTE/FTF with the cheapest ammo available (literally).

I had a PPQ when it first came out. I wanted to run a few through it and see how it handled. I put about 1,000rds through and it worked just fine. I sold it shortly afterwards. I used the large backstrap. You kinda just have to force your thumb down a little and try not to engage the slide release. If you are so inclined, you can remove the slide stop, shorten it on a grinder or with a saw, reblue it, and then reinstall it. Any sights for the P99 will work on the PPQ and there are a few choices out there. Check out www.waltherforums.com for any info you want on the PPQ. It has its own forum. My main criticism of the gun was the short mag release when compared to an HK and the absence of bevel or extra space in the magwell. Reloads left no room for error. Also, given the total absence of holsters, I decided to revisit the PPQ in about 5 years. Also, the Desert Eagle mags for their version of the P99 work in the PPQ and are half the price. Older P99 mags will not work, the front edge of the mag is too tall.

[GOP]

10mm,

excellent advice. Do you know how to remove slide-lock on the gun?

[WDW]

10mm,

excellent advice. Do you know how to remove slide-lock on the gun?

I do not personally know how to do it. I am unsure if the video for complete frame disassembly is out though. However, if you go over to the walther forum, ask one of those guys I am sure they will tell you in about five seconds. They have people on there that actually compete for Walther in Germany and know that gun inside out and backwards.

[gtmtnbiker98]

2 questions for the guys running PPQ's:

1) What grip are you using? I'm using the thumbs forward grip and my thumb rides the slide release, causing it to not lock back on an empty mag. Is there any way to remedy this (parts, better grip, etc)? I'm a lefty, so removing the slide release on the right side wouldn't even be an issue, I'm used to hitting the slide release on the left anyway (if that is even possible). I will say that my experiments with different grips cost me to use too much or too little thumb at 25m, which really hurt my accuracy today.

2) Are there any aftermarket sights available yet?

Other than that, I love this gun. So far I'm at 500 rounds in 6 days, 0 FTE/FTF with the cheapest ammo available (literally).

I'm using the medium backstrap on mine and it is working fine. As for the slide stop, I'm coming directly from the P30 camp, so my thumbs forward grip has already been adjusted to accommodate for the larger slide release. No issues with the side stops, so far.

As for sights, any sight designed for the P99/PPS will work on the PPQ. Holsters are also becoming more and more common for the platform.

[F-Trooper05]

Shot my first PPQ the other day. First thing I noticed was the sharp recoil. Definetly pretty intense for a 9mm. I think it might have had a lot to do with how the palm swell was hitting directly in the center of my hand and putting a lot of pressure on the center of my palm. With that said, holy shit was it accurate. My buddy didn't have a holster for it so I couldn't shoot a FAST, but I have no doubt that if put in the right hands a consistent low five seconds would be no sweat.

Doubt I'll be switching platforms for one, but I would definetly recomend it to someone who has a Glock/HK phobia.

ETA: I didn't have any slide lock issues like I do with the P30. The slide catch spring seems to be much more stiff than the ones HK uses, so kudos to Walther for that.

[GOP]

The only negatives I have noticed about the gun for me is trying to adopt the new grip to compensate for the long slide lock (which is a "me" problem not a gun problem), and the fact that my sites are grouping about 1-3" to the left of my target with the adjustable sites (I'm a lefty, so it isn't trigger control). The positives are huge, however. The ambi controls, reliability, and amazing trigger far outweigh the negatives. I'm down only 5 points on my best dot drill (using a super sweet SA trigger in my CZ), and my speed increase is huge for whatever reason. I like this gun so much that I may trade my CZ in for another one, use one platform for carry/competition, and streamline my training. As of now, I'm at 630 rounds with 0 malfs (outside of the ones caused by my new grip on the slidelock) in 5 days total.

I received my Dale Fricke Archangel holster (am wearing it now); the AA is absolute top quality and very concealable. Dale also sent me a Zack holster for the gun, which I have no tried out yet.

[JodyH]

The first gun I ever took a Dremel to was my Walther P99.
I cut the slide lock lever down so my thumbs wouldn't bump it.
And the P99 lever was way shorter than the PPQ's.

[deeHKman]

Shot my first PPQ the other day. First thing I noticed was the sharp recoil. Definetly pretty intense for a 9mm. I think it might have had a lot to do with how the palm swell was hitting directly in the center of my hand and putting a lot of pressure on the center of my palm. With that said, holy shit was it accurate. My buddy didn't have a holster for it so I couldn't shoot a FAST, but I have no doubt that if put in the right hands a consistent low five seconds would be no sweat.

Doubt I'll be switching platforms for one, but I would definetly recomend it to someone who has a Glock/HK phobia.

ETA: I didn't have any slide lock issues like I do with the P30. The slide catch spring seems to be much more stiff than the ones HK uses, so kudos to Walther for that.

The PPQ has my interest not to replace my HK's nothing will. But to go to the range and maybe some competing. Something i've never done before. One question how does the PPQ handle +P and +P+ ammo? I've seen video's of brass seeming to be thrown in the next County. My health has gotten better for now due to some newer injecttion's so i need to live like i was dieing. As the song goes.. :) thank's guy's for the time's i come here a good forum and a low noise post ratio...

I found a local guy who had a Glock 34 gen3 for sale like new Blue Lable with a 3.5# "-" connector. Not too light at all so if all goes well a trip to Griffin,GA for my first GSSF match on Feb.25-26. I know some of Team Carver and they will let me wear a jersey and shoot some racegun's. I was told Bobby Carver has a trigger that is GSSF legal and is amazing. I hope to compare it to the PPQ soon..i hope to post when i can compare them all..

[GOP]

Update: 9 days total, 1,020 rounds. Don't feed this gun Tula or Wolf. I had a ton of FTF/FTE out of 210 rounds today (ESP one handed, probably due to my grip)

[Wes Peart]

2 questions for the guys running PPQ's:

1) What grip are you using? I'm using the thumbs forward grip and my thumb rides the slide release, causing it to not lock back on an empty mag. Is there any way to remedy this (parts, better grip, etc)? I'm a lefty, so removing the slide release on the right side wouldn't even be an issue, I'm used to hitting the slide release on the left anyway (if that is even possible). I will say that my experiments with different grips cost me to use too much or too little thumb at 25m, which really hurt my accuracy today.

2) Are there any aftermarket sights available yet?

Other than that, I love this gun. So far I'm at 500 rounds in 6 days, 0 FTE/FTF with the cheapest ammo available (literally).

Haven't had that problem, I shoot thumbs forward and never have an issue. My shooting hand thumbnail lies almost over the joint where my support hand thumb joins the hand, quite a ways from triggering the slide release.


The PPQ has my interest not to replace my HK's nothing will. But to go to the range and maybe some competing. Something i've never done before. One question how does the PPQ handle +P and +P+ ammo? I've seen video's of brass seeming to be thrown in the next County. My health has gotten better for now due to some newer injecttion's so i need to live like i was dieing. As the song goes.. :) thank's guy's for the time's i come here a good forum and a low noise post ratio...



I've shot a decent amount of my carry ammo which is Ranger 127 grain +P+ and the ejection never seemed excessively strong. Farther than practice ammo, but not anywhere near out into the stratosphere a la HK91/G3 either.


Update: 9 days total, 1,020 rounds. Don't feed this gun Tula or Wolf. I had a ton of FTF/FTE out of 210 rounds today (ESP one handed, probably due to my grip)

Mine shoots Tula fine :p

Oh Todd, it sure would be cool to see you shoot one of these for an endurance test gun.. *whistles*

[GJM]

Assuming Todd continues to carry AIWB, he likes a trigger with roll, he likes specialized sights, and he wants to ace the one hand portion of Rogers, I will bet a dollar that the PPQ won't be his next endurance pistol.

[Wes Peart]

Assuming Todd continues to carry AIWB, he likes a trigger with roll, he likes specialized sights, and he wants to ace the one hand portion of Rogers, I will bet a dollar that the PPQ won't be his next endurance pistol.

Sounds like he's about plumb out of guns to test then, considering he's tested most of the service pistols out there.. The only thing left is maybe the XD (bleh), CZ75 or the FNH. Plus I heard him pining on his blog about a commander sized double stack 1911 in 9mm, which is pretty much anti-everything he's tested so far (besides being safe(er) for AIWB). My hopes are more an exercise in mental masturbation than anything :cool:

[JV_]

I'm voting for a Sig. It even comes with a built in Gadget!

[GJM]

If I were betting, Todd will end up testing some TDA like a Sig or Beretta. Note JV has just gotten a 226 E2 SRT, and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[JV_]

Note JV has just gotten a 226 E2 SRT, and the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.I wanted a change, and something that would make me a more well rounded shooter; ToddG suggested I get a Sig. And now I have two, a 229 and a 226.

[TGS]

Since we're on about the endurance pistols.....

What's going on with the Glock? Haven't seen an update in a while.

[JV_]

What's going on with the Glock? Haven't seen an update in a while.
Read the last paragraph:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2949-DotW-18-Draws-amp-Reloads&p=50743&viewfull=1#post50743

I've contributed to the derail, but please keep this thread on track - PPQ.

[GOP]

Assuming Todd continues to carry AIWB, he likes a trigger with roll, he likes specialized sights, and he wants to ace the one hand portion of Rogers, I will bet a dollar that the PPQ won't be his next endurance pistol.

My one hand shooting has improved significantly with the PPQ, even with my CZ75 SP01 with the tricked out trigger.

No need for Todd to test out the PPQ, mine will have 40,000 rounds on it by years end :)

[GJM]

In my experience a short, 1911 style trigger is least desirable for one hand shooting at speed. A good DA large frame revolver is best followed by either a Glock with a LW connector or M&P with a DCAEK trigger. The PPQ may be better than a custom CZ, but while it might be fine for slow fire precision, it not my choice for one hand shooting at max speed.

[GOP]

In my experience a short, 1911 style trigger is least desirable for one hand shooting at speed. A good DA large frame revolver is best followed by either a Glock with a LW connector or M&P with a DCAEK trigger. The PPQ may be better than a custom CZ, but while it might be fine for slow fire precision, it not my choice for one hand shooting at max speed.

I totally understand. I find the trigger to be completely fine and perfectly acceptable so far, though it did take some getting used to. Any struggle I have is due to me, not the gun. To me, it is almost the ideal set-up. Excellent trigger (to me), solid reliability, striker-fired, and very accurate.

[Wes Peart]

In my experience a short, 1911 style trigger is least desirable for one hand shooting at speed. A good DA large frame revolver is best followed by either a Glock with a LW connector or M&P with a DCAEK trigger. The PPQ may be better than a custom CZ, but while it might be fine for slow fire precision, it not my choice for one hand shooting at max speed.

I've seen several people hold that same opinion about short triggers being more difficult to shoot at speed but oddly almost every Bullseye shooter on earth shoots a 1911.. And their discipline requires shooting quick and slow with one hand at 25-50 yards. Even the guys shooting accurized M9's have the triggers smithed to be pretty crisp short breaks. Must be an individual thing.

[GJM]

Isn't quick bullseye an oxymoron?

Big difference between bullseye quick and .75 to a first shot from the transition.

[Gary1911A1]

Thanks to posts like these I ordered a PPQ in 9MM this morning from Jetguns. Got it at a good price of $486 and it should be at my dealers next week so I look forward to shooting it and comparing it to my other polymer striker fired 9MMs'.

[KravPirate]

If this pistol continues to prove reliable with the current testers, it could very easily be replacing my G19. After holding one yesterday, along with the new FNS-9, I came away less than impressed with the FNS and trying to think of every reason not to invest in a PPQ. Used to own a P99 and liked it but did not like the trigger. The PPQ is everything the P99 is but with the best trigger on any handgun outside of the best 1911's. You guys are not making it easy for me.

[k831]

Are there any pictures going around comparing the PPQ to a G19 or M&P9c/fs for size reference? I have been trying to find a local store that has a PPQ in stock and have failed.

I would also be interested in a picture showing grip/thumb placement, if anyone ever felt so inclined. I keep my thumbs forward and high on my M&P and Kahr. Trying to visualize exactly where my thumbs would go, but as I have never handled an H&K either, I'm kinda at a loss.

[JodyH]

Are there any pictures going around comparing the PPQ to a G19 or M&P9c/fs for size reference?
The PPQ almost exactly splits the difference between a G19 and a G17, both in slide length and grip length.
Probably very close in size to a M&Pc.

[GOP]

The PPQ almost exactly splits the difference between a G19 and a G17, both in slide length and grip length.

This. Perfect size for carry, IMO.

Thumb placement is strong hand thumb either over the slide lock or under the slide lock. I use thumb over and have no problems any more.

I'm at 1,369 rounds total in 11 days total. I've had 0 malfunctions with decent ammo. I've only cleaned it once. I set 4 PR's again today, and the short trigger reset continues to lower my splits.

[k831]

The PPQ almost exactly splits the difference between a G19 and a G17, both in slide length and grip length.
Probably very close in size to a M&Pc.

Thanks for the info guys...

I don't own a G19 right now, but I'm pretty sure the 9c is a little smaller, at least in the grip. So, the PPQ should be a bit bigger than the 9c. A pistol that is in between the G19 and the G17 is easily concealable though, especially in the winter.

I'm in AZ, and in the summer, I often end up carrying my wife's PM9 because I'm wearing only shorts and T shirt. I was thinking of picking up a PPQ and PPS for winter/summer, because I like the "consolidate platforms and caliber" line of thinking quite a bit. I am assuming that the PPQ and the PPS run similarly enough in terms of manual of arms, and have a similar enough trigger, that it would be an effective "consolidation" yes?

I had high hopes for the M&P as I liked the ergos when I rented one. But the I have the old striker, and the accuracy is just ok... the whole spend 500 on a gun and then switch out half the parts with after market stuff and suffer so-so accuracy is frustrating. Was about to go buy a Glock.. but the new production gen3 and 4's aren't looking so hot right now either. I was beginning to think I had no options in the poly/striker department. Started looking to FN, then learned about this Walther combo.

[JodyH]

I don't own a G19 right now, but I'm pretty sure the 9c is a little smaller, at least in the grip. So, the PPQ should be a bit bigger than the 9c.
You're right.
For some reason I was thinking the M&Pc was slightly larger than the G19, but it is actually between the G26 and G19 in size.

[Pennzoil]

Not sure if this will help but snapped a quick picture with the different guns lined up but left the M&P FS out as it's to close to the PPQ and Glock 17 to notice. Not exactly scientific but it's something.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8985/griph.jpg

Regarding the PPQ's size I was really worried about the grip length being to long for me as I've been carrying the M&P FS for the last year and I felt the M&P grip length was on the edge of my comfort level for concealment. With the PPQ it feels like a Glock 19 to me and I'm constantly thinking about how the gun feels smaller then it actually is. I think it has to do with the shape of the grip and how it fits for me while concealed.

K831 if your close to me in AZ (usually shoot Casa Grande or occasionally Rio Salado) and want to meet up to run some of my Glocks and PPQ so you don't have to rent just PM me.

[fuse]

Not sure if this will help but snapped a quick picture with the different guns lined up but left the M&P FS out as it's to close to the PPQ and Glock 17 to notice. Not exactly scientific but it's something.

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/8985/griph.jpg

Regarding the PPQ's size I was really worried about the grip length being to long for me as I've been carrying the M&P FS for the last year and I felt the M&P grip length was on the edge of my comfort level for concealment. With the PPQ it feels like a Glock 19 to me and I'm constantly thinking about how the gun feels smaller then it actually is. I think it has to do with the shape of the grip and how it fits for me while concealed.

K831 if your close to me in AZ (usually shoot Casa Grande or occasionally Rio Salado) and want to meet up to run some of my Glocks and PPQ so you don't have to rent just PM me.

Very cool picture

[KravPirate]

The P99 I had concealed better for me than my current G19. The curve of the Walther grip reduces print. It is kind of like a Bob Tail found on 1911's. The PPQ appears to have that same type of curve as the P99. I don't see any negatives with this pistol except for the length of the slide release. I prefer to manipulate the release with my support thumb. That is how I run my Glock. Has anyone had any issues with slide lock?

[GOP]

The P99 I had concealed better for me than my current G19. The curve of the Walther grip reduces print. It is kind of like a Bob Tail found on 1911's. The PPQ appears to have that same type of curve as the P99. I don't see any negatives with this pistol except for the length of the slide release. I prefer to manipulate the release with my support thumb. That is how I run my Glock. Has anyone had any issues with slide lock?

I had a problem with the slide lock for about 500 rounds, now its no longer an issue at all. I simply adjusted my grip and it's fine now. Shortening the lock is easy too. Take a punch (1/16), hammer out the pin, dremel the lock down

[k831]

K831 if your close to me in AZ (usually shoot Casa Grande or occasionally Rio Salado) and want to meet up to run some of my Glocks and PPQ so you don't have to rent just PM me.

Sounds like you're not too far from me. I may just take you up on that once I get settled with the new job. Thank you for the offer. I did manage to find a shop in the valley that has some PPQ's in stock, so I will at least be able to go and handle one.

I found some pics in this thread (page 9) http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=70846&page=9 comparing the PPQ to a gen 3 G19 and a FS M&P, for anyone that wants to see the comparison from a different angle than the one posted here. Wasn't sure as to protocol of posting pics from other sites, so I just posted the link.

[Pennzoil]

K831 I sent you a PM with info on a LGS that has the PPQ incase the other one falls through or this one is closer to you.

[Pennzoil]

I have 2000 rds through my new PPQ and figured I'd share my impressions so far. I've been searching for a new pistol to replace my M&P FS as my everything pistol. I've been through a few different guns in the last month or two trying to decide and have settled on the PPQ. No gun is perfect but this one fits my current needs & wants for now. I'm going to pick up a back up PPQ and shoot PPQ's exclusively for now.

Pros: for me

Stock configuration on pistol works for me
It's a personal preference for me but I like to keep my pistols internals stock if possible and trigger/magazine release on the PPQ work for me. I seem to always want to tinker with this on other pistols but not with the PPQ. Only thing I see adding is night sights (still have to get these) and the gadget if it ever became available for the pistol.

Accuracy is good
I shoot off hand groups tighter with this pistol then any of my others with the P2000 being the only one I have coming close to it. I've done my personal bests in drills like dot torture and bullseye three way early on with this gun. The stock sights have a lot of light on both sides of the front sight which I hate and usually messes me up but is a complete non factor for me with this pistol for some reason.

Pistol isn't picky regarding ammo weight or type
Something I noticed is that it seems to maintain good accuracy with WWB, cheap Federal, S&B, Fiocchi, etc and 115/124/147 bullet weight only affect slight changes in POI due to weight /velocity with same accuracy. My M&P was extremely finicky regarding ammo so I'm enjoying this even though now that I know it works with different ammo types I'll stick to one loading.

reliable so far - no issues
No malfunctions yet. Only thing to note is the brass does hit the slide in two different places but consistently ejects it a few feet to the right of me. I don't see any damage to the brass which is important to me as I reload.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/650/brasshittingslide.jpg

conceals like a smaller pistol for me
Pistol just feels and carries like it is smaller then it actually is. Some others have explained it better in prior posts.


Cons: for me

Frame is ergonomic but still prefer M&P
This is a personal preference but for me the M&P frame with Thumb Safety is pure nirvana but PPQ isn't horrible. The medium back strap is slightly too small for my tastes while the large back strap seems to be a huge jump in size while being a little too large for me. This may just be due to using the M&P exclusively over the past year. OP in this thread felt exact opposite regarding M&P and PPQ grip so definitely a personal thing.

The raised portion at the bottom of the thumb rest is annoying for me and irritates my social finger on strong hand. I'm getting used to it but will probably sand it down a bit in the near future.

Contoured thumb rest portion of frame is slick for the way I grip the pistol with two hands (high thumbs forward)
I had the same problem with my M&P and P2000 but the M&P wasn't nearly as bad. I did the same thing to the PPQ as I did the other firearms by adding grip tape to the area on the left side of the pistol where my support hand palm contacts the pistol.

Poolside photo
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/3224/img0193ic.jpg

Increased felt recoil for me
Not a big deal for me but does seem to have increased felt recoil compared to P2000, Glock 19 and M&P. My splits are slightly slower regardless of ninja trigger reset due to waiting on the front sight but with practice I'm getting closer to my normal splits. I believe I allowed myself to get sloppy with my grip while shooting the M&P as it shoot so soft for me.

[GOP]

Excellent review Pennzoil.

I am at 1,982 rounds today since I started shooting it 15 days ago (owned it for 17). I have hit all kinds of PR's own it already, and finally hit a 5.91 FAST. Obviously I have a ton of room to improve there, but the pistol is making it easier. The quick reset on the trigger makes my transitions a good bit faster, and I have turned in some really fast iHacks/Type-writers for me. Today I shot a 44/50 Dot Torture at 5m, my best ever is a 47/50 with my customized CZ 75 SP01. I finally received my competition holster and mag pouches today, so I will be competing with it shortly.

[k831]

Helpful notes Pennzoil, thanks for posting.


Excellent review Pennzoil.

I am at 1,982 rounds today since I started shooting it 15 days ago (owned it for 17). I have hit all kinds of PR's own it already, and finally hit a 5.91 FAST. Obviously I have a ton of room to improve there, but the pistol is making it easier. The quick reset on the trigger makes my transitions a good bit faster, and I have turned in some really fast iHacks/Type-writers for me. Today I shot a 44/50 Dot Torture at 5m, my best ever is a 47/50 with my customized CZ 75 SP01. I finally received my competition holster and mag pouches today, so I will be competing with it shortly.

Glad its going so well... how do you pros and cons line up with Pennzoil's?

[NETim]

It appears to me from the pics I've seen of the PPQ, the contour of the frame doesn't allow much of the forward edge of the mag floorplate to be exposed, which is useful for one-handed double feed malfunction clearance. (I hook the mag lip on my belt, press the mag catch and RIP the mag out.)

I'm curious. Has anyone has tried this maneuver with their PPQ?

TIA!

[TheNewbie]

I like these but if the trigger pull is really around 4.5#, I would be concerned carrying that as a duty weapon.

[Pennzoil]

It appears to me from the pics I've seen of the PPQ, the contour of the frame doesn't allow much of the forward edge of the mag floorplate to be exposed, which is useful for one-handed double feed malfunction clearance. (I hook the mag lip on my belt, press the mag catch and RIP the mag out.)

I'm curious. Has anyone has tried this maneuver with their PPQ?

TIA!

The magazine base plate is wider at the bottom and tapers up towards the frame. It's more pronounced on the sides of the magazines but also has a taper on the front. I tried this with inert rounds and a few gun belts I have like 5.11 reinfoced leather, wilderness 5 stitch, etc. It worked well and I didn't see an issue but I'm not going to pretend to be an expert or anything close so take it with a grain of salt.

Something I like is that the base plate has 4 small hard stops to prevent you from over insertion or pinching your hand like I always tend to do with some other guns. Guess this also means you'll always have a gap to hook the magazine if needed. The magazine base plate on the PPQ magazine also seems to hold up well against abuse. I do my shooting in the rocky desert I have seen a few base plates that didn't hold up well due to thin soft polymer.

http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/7550/magmg.png

I also have the magnum research baby eagle magazines which have the exact same base plate incase anyone is curious.

[NETim]

Okay, thanks. I guess it would be easier enough to take a rasp to the lower edge of the magwell opening and judiciously cut a small notch up front if it proved to be a problem.

[JV_]

I finally got a chance to shoot a PPQ. If I didn't load the mags, I would have guessed it was .40 and not 9mm, and that was with powder puff 147g loads. The trigger was "nice", but I don't buy guns based on the feel of the trigger.

I'd rather have a P30.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Pennzoil, how's the slide to frame fit holding? Your round count is close to mine and my slide to frame fit is very loose. Accuracy is fine, but was curious as to how loose yours has become. When I first bought mine, it was much tighter. I'm picking up my spare PPQ on Sunday. After this weekend, I should be over 4,000-rounds since Dec. 23, 2011. It hasn't been cleaned this year, either.

[TGS]

Pennzoil, how's the slide to frame fit holding? Your round count is close to mine and my slide to frame fit is very loose. Accuracy is fine, but was curious as to how loose yours has become. When I first bought mine, it was much tighter. I'm picking up my spare PPQ on Sunday. After this weekend, I should be over 4,000-rounds since Dec. 23, 2011. It hasn't been cleaned this year, either.

The fit got noticeably looser? hmmm.

Has it effected accuracy or reliability?

[gtmtnbiker98]

The fit got noticeably looser? hmmm.

Has it effected accuracy or reliability?Neither, it just broke in. But is looser than any of my HK's. Not a big deal, just curious.

There's already been mention over on Waltherforums and S&W stated that loose slide to frame fit is normal.

[Comedian]

I finally got a chance to shoot a PPQ. If I didn't load the mags, I would have guessed it was .40 and not 9mm, and that was with powder puff 147g loads. The trigger was "nice", but I don't buy guns based on the feel of the trigger.

I'd rather have a P30.

Agree about the recoil. I shot the PPQ back to back with my G19 and the difference in recoil was big. If i want that kind of recoil, i will get a 40.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Recoil is subjective, but it still strikes me odd to talk about recoil and 9mm in the same sentence.

[Comedian]

Recoil is subjective, but it still strikes me odd to talk about recoil and 9mm in the same sentence.

It becomes an issue with the PPQ, imo. It doesn't shoot like any 9mm pistol, that i have tried.

[JV_]

Recoil is subjective, but it still strikes me odd to talk about recoil and 9mm in the same sentence.I'm not calling it excessive or unmanageable, but noticeably different than my 226 or 229. It definitely feels snappier and more like a .40.

[iakdrago]

Though i enjoyed shooting one, i'm don't think i feel comfortable carrying a gun with a fully striker. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it has 2 internal safeties--one of which being that gimmicky trigger safety.

[Pennzoil]

My slide to frame fit is still good and feels similar to what I remember it felt like new. I just cleaned the pistol today for first time and frame/internals looked like new. My M&P frame would be extremely nasty after 2k rounds.

I agree that the extra recoil is annoying for 9mm and early on had me second guessing using the pistol long term but switched from the medium back strap to the large back strap which seemed to tame it to an acceptable level. I know they brag about the short reset and it is nice but right now for me getting the front sight back down is the limiter if I'm aiming at anything resizable size.

For me the trigger is weight is safe for carry due to it having what feels like almost twice the pre travel of my GEN3 Glock's while being extremely close to the same trigger weight. It's just a cleaner break to me. The M&P is a fully cocked striker and one of the critical safeties is held in place by the rear sight so same as the regular M&P in my eyes but I really miss the optional thumb safety. I know they aren't in vogue but I really grew to like the thumb safety even though I initially despised it.

[tdoom15]

Though i enjoyed shooting one, i'm don't think i feel comfortable carrying a gun with a fully striker. Correct me if i'm wrong, but it has 2 internal safeties--one of which being that gimmicky trigger safety.

You're wrong :p

FPB and the sear would BOTH have to fail in order to fire without pulling the trigger. Could it happen? I suppose, but it shouldn't be anything to actually worry about. Chances of you accidently squeezing the the trigger is much much higher imo.

[fuse]

The M&P... one of the critical safeties is held in place by the rear sight so same as the regular M&P in my eyes

This I did not know. Interesting.

I have been in 2 classes where I have witnessed 2 m&p rear sights come loose. So that's kind of, not cool.

Didn't the rear sight of Julie Golob's m&p come loose at the world shoot? Seems like I remember reading about it on her blog.

/thread drift

[Kyle Reese]

Recoil is subjective, but it still strikes me odd to talk about recoil and 9mm in the same sentence.

I would have thought the same thing, until I shot a PPQ this morning. My impressions were the same as JV's.

[Long tom coffin]

I finally got a chance to shoot a PPQ. If I didn't load the mags, I would have guessed it was .40 and not 9mm, and that was with powder puff 147g loads. The trigger was "nice", but I don't buy guns based on the feel of the trigger.

I'd rather have a P30.



Really? The first time I ever fired a PPQ, it was side by side with a Gen 3 19. I thought the recoil was about the same.


Interestingly enough, there is a poll on that same subject going at the Walther forums. The "more recoil" crowd isn't winning, but they still have a sizeable minority.

[t1tan]

Interestingly enough, there is a poll on that same subject going at the Walther forums. The "more recoil" crowd isn't winning, but they still have a sizeable minority.

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't trust any opinion on a brand specific forum.

[Long tom coffin]

Maybe it's just me, but I wouldn't trust any opinion on a brand specific forum.

I take it on a case by case basis. Most people posting on that particular poll have done so with a decent amount of common sense and real experience and a minimum of BS.


Besides, let's be realistic: A brand forum centered around a small German handgun manufacturer that has a much smaller international footprint than some other same-industry companies isn't going to draw the same kind of slavering, retarded fanboi hordes such as, say, Glock Talk.

[t1tan]

Besides, let's be realistic: A brand forum centered around a small German handgun manufacturer that has a much smaller international footprint than some other same-industry companies isn't going to draw the same kind of slavering, retarded fanboi hordes such as, say, Glock Talk.

I agree, to an extent, maybe it's just the way I read things but I find the same sort of blindness in posts no matter the brand/model in each forum I lurk.

But yes, nothing reaches the extent of GT

[GOP]

Interesting observations about the recoil compared to other guns. To me, the gun shoots about the same as any other 9mm. I'm shooting the gun faster and more accurately than any other pistol I've owned, so it is working for me. Maybe I'm weird, but I really like it :D

[Pennzoil]

Pennzoil, how's the slide to frame fit holding?

On the slide to frame fit I was wrong when I said my pistols fit was still good. I'm not sure how I missed it. The fit is good on the rear of the gun but the front of the slide just flops around. If I lightly shake the pistol the front of the slide rattles around freely and this will drive me nuts on the motorcycle if it rattles while I'm riding. The slide has more then enough side to side travel to hit both sides on the inside of the frames dust cover.

Took the gun down and I don't see any real wear on the frame rails, slide or on the inside of the frames dust cover. Guess I'll keep an eye on this and see how it pans out. Maybe I'll post a video to see if yours is about the same.

[gtmtnbiker98]

On the slide to frame fit I was wrong when I said my pistols fit was still good. I'm not sure how I missed it. The fit is good on the rear of the gun but the front of the slide just flops around. If I lightly shake the pistol the front of the slide rattles around freely and this will drive me nuts on the motorcycle if it rattles while I'm riding. The slide has more then enough side to side travel to hit both sides on the inside of the frames dust cover.

Took the gun down and I don't see any real wear on the frame rails, slide or on the inside of the frames dust cover. Guess I'll keep an eye on this and see how it pans out. Maybe I'll post a video to see if yours is about the same.

Your description is the same as mine. I compared the PPQ to my HK's and the HK's exhibit the same level of play towards the front. I was curious and I believe it to be by design. Here is a link that mimics my slide to frame fit: http://http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=9JVGb0jsM0U (http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=9JVGb0jsM0U)

BTW, the owner in this video returned his for inspection and was found to be normal.

[TomN]

I only have 100 rounds through mine and it rattles the same as the one in the video. As accurate as it is I'm not really too worried.

[99999]

I only have 100 rounds through mine and it rattles the same as the one in the video. As accurate as it is I'm not really too worried.

I also compared mine to my HK45c, which I have never thought of as a "loose" gun. The PPQ and HK both have the same amount of play at the front (slide to frame only, barrel to slide is lock tight). Both are tight at the back. This is by design I am sure, and I believe it is a non-issue. You just "feel" it more when shaking the PPQ because that gun is so darn light. As for "rattling", it is no worse than the right side slide release lever on the newer style HK's, which have always annoyed me, but certainly isn't an issue.

For "recoil". I use to think it was harsher than comparable 9mm guns, but it is also lighter than the others. Truth is, I am twice as accurate with it than my others, so it doesn't matter. It's grip and recoil characteristics are just so different than say a Glock, that it just takes some getting used to. Now that it is the main gun I shoot with, I don't notice the recoil at all anymore, and if I compare it to a Gen3 Glock, I don't notice any difference.

[Pennzoil]

Mine appears looser then the video post cleaning (that'll teach me) but still shoots great. Post cleaning I can hear the slide rattling during presentations from holster when starting my press out. Noticed it first during dry fire practice. Still like the gun overall just has some downsides for me like everything.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Well, I just picked up a second one this afternoon and out of the box, they are loose and it must be by design. No worries here, they fire fine!

[NETim]

You guys are a bad influence on young impressionable me. (ahem)

I picked one up today at the gun show.

Despite the fact that I have fairly big hands and long fingers, the small backstrap feels best.

As I feared, ripping the mag out to perform a single handed clearance is going to be difficult with this gun. Not enough of the floorplate lip is exposed to hook it on the belt or whatever to rip the mag out of the gun. I'm afraid I'll have to slightly flatten or otherwise reduce the grip frame to ease the maneuver.

Love the trigger!

[gtmtnbiker98]

You guys are a bad influence on young impressionable me. (ahem)

I picked one up today at the gun show.

Despite the fact that I have fairly big hands and long fingers, the small backstrap feels best.

As I feared, ripping the mag out to perform a single handed clearance is going to be difficult with this gun. Not enough of the floorplate lip is exposed to hook it on the belt or whatever to rip the mag out of the gun. I'm afraid I'll have to slightly flatten or otherwise reduce the grip frame to ease the maneuver.

Love the trigger!
15+2 mags leave plenty of real estate!! Don't hack the frame!

[NETim]

15+2 mags leave plenty of real estate!! Don't hack the frame!

Okay, thanks! I didn't realize the bigger mags were different other than capacity.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Okay, thanks! I didn't realize the bigger mags were different other than capacity.Huge base plates. I have three of them. If you want to see what they look like, Google for the First Edition and most will display with the 17-round mag inserted.

[GOP]

I'm at 2,270 rounds in 17 days total, 1 cleaning. Had a Wolf with a bad primer today. Also, turned in sone smoking fast splits (for me). The short reset is a huge benefit for me on things like iHacks and Typewriters.

[Pennzoil]

Installed Meprolight P99C night sights on my PPQ tonight. Wow talk about a fast/easy installation compared too installing sights on my other handguns. Hardest part of the new sights is going to be blacking out the rear and painting the front one orange like my others. The Meprolights aren't anything to write home about but will work until more options come available.

Also the TLR-3 light fits the gun great. The PPQ functions fine (FMJ &HP) with the light mounted so far. Still really enjoying the PPQ thus far.

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/5716/combosightandlight.jpg

[Kyle Reese]

My brother just picked one of these up in 9mm. I'll track his progress with it and encourage him to enroll in a handgun training class.

[GOP]

I'll be at over 5,000 rounds in about 2 months tomorrow. I clean it 1 time a week. I've had 8 malfunctions total, all operator or ammo related errors. Either bad Tula ammo with bad primers, or it not locking back because my thumb was on the (rather long) slide release. In the past 2,500 rounds, I've had 0 malfunctions. I'm now scoring close to 200 on the 300 aggregate (a PR for me), hit about 45% of my 3x5's at 25m in 10 shot groups (PR), and shot a 4.79 FAST clean with it on Thursday (another PR). I'm also scoring a 40/50 on the Dot Torture, and getting close to passing the iHack standards. I ordered some Mepro Tru-dots for it, and will have them on next week.

[Pennzoil]

The meprolight 18801 sights for the 99c appear to have a shorter front sight and POI is @3" high above POA at 10yds on my PPQ. A lot of people said the 18801 sights were the same height as the 18800 but that appears incorrect.

[GOP]

The meprolight 18801 sights for the 99c appear to have a shorter front sight and POI is @3" high above POA at 10yds on my PPQ. A lot of people said the 18801 sights were the same height as the 18800 but that appears incorrect.

My current factory sights shoot about 1-2" high at most distances. Are the mepros any thinner or any better at distance than the factory sights? The only negative about this gun is the lack of Sevigny or Defoors for the gun.

[digiadaamore]

My current factory sights shoot about 1-2" high at most distances. Are the mepros any thinner or any better at distance than the factory sights? The only negative about this gun is the lack of Sevigny or Defoors for the gun.

i personally am quite enjoying my mepros. the front sight is definetly thicker than stock in relation to the rear. they are very fast to track, something to do with the way the rear is cut i think, but they are not as precise as stock

[Pennzoil]

The meprolight sights for me have a good balance of light between front sight and rear notch. They would work good for me if I had picked up the correct set. The rear sight is huge and I think could be improved by trying to matching the contour of the slide. I agree that the only thing holding this gun up is a quality set of sights. I imagine the first company that puts out some quality sights will sell a ton.

I really need to find some steel sights soon before a class in May but everyone seems to be sold out with a 5 week back order.

[balance]

The meprolight sights for me have a good balance of light between front sight and rear notch. They would work good for me if I had picked up the correct set. The rear sight is huge and I think could be improved by trying to matching the contour of the slide.

If you want night sights that match the contour of the slide, I'd suggest buying night sights made for the PPS. Meprolight makes the 18802 specifically for the PPS. Not only are they more contoured, but they sit lower on the slide. Sights made for the PPS will fit on the PPQ and P99 pistols, but the rear sight will not be click adjustable as it is held onto the slide by a roll pin rather than a spring loaded plunger.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=meprolight+18802&hl=en&prmd=imvns&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=659&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=5915009517775669613&sa=X&ei=XPt4T5LMDKXi2AX-xoG2Bg&ved=0CEoQ8wIwAA

[99999]

Todd, have you had any chance to try a PPQ out yet? I would love your opinion on one.

[GJM]

Todd, have you had any chance to try a PPQ out yet? I would love your opinion on one.

Believe he has stated his impressions after handling one at SHOT..

[99999]

Believe he has stated his impressions after handling one at SHOT..

I think i remember that, but haven't seen anything about him shooting one yet. Big difference. Maybe he is holding out till he starts his new 25k challange gun. :)

[balance]

I think i remember that, but haven't seen anything about him shooting one yet. Big difference. Maybe he is holding out till he starts his new 25k challange gun.

I'm interested as well.

I know there are a lot of PPQ owners out there who would like for this pistol to go through his endurance test.

[YVK]

I'm interested as well.

I know there are a lot of PPQ owners out there who would like for this pistol to go through his endurance test.

Won't speak for Todd, but knowing his affection for an appendix carry, I'd be very surprised to see him do a PPQ endurance test. Although, you never know...

[balance]

How about a DA/SA pistol?

If not a PPQ, then how about a P99 AS? As similar as the designs are, I have no reason to believe either one would be any more durable or reliable than the other. Every report of a high round count P99 I have heard of has been very positive, with very few malfunctions or parts breakages. I think just as many people would be interested in the results.

On the P99, if the decocker is held down, the button itself blocks the striker from traveling far enough forward to impact either the FPB or primer if the trigger is pulled and the striker is released. Not exactly a gadget, but it would act somewhat like a "striker block".

[ToddG]

Todd, have you had any chance to try a PPQ out yet? I would love your opinion on one.

I've not been overly impressed but in fairness my exposure and experience has been fairly limited. I handled an early one at SHOT in '11: the trigger was too light and short for my tastes viz-a-vis a safe gun to handle under extreme stress, plus the slide release lever was sharp and heavily sprung making it actually painful to depress. Since then I've been able to put a few rounds downrange with one and in addition to (still) not liking the trigger from a practical standpoint I also found the recoil a lot snappier than the Glock, M&P, or P30.

There'a absolutely no way I'd carry a gun with that light & short of a trigger break in an appendix holster.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I've not been overly impressed but in fairness my exposure and experience has been fairly limited. I handled an early one at SHOT in '11: the trigger was too light and short for my tastes viz-a-vis a safe gun to handle under extreme stress, plus the slide release lever was sharp and heavily sprung making it actually painful to depress. Since then I've been able to put a few rounds downrange with one and in addition to (still) not liking the trigger from a practical standpoint I also found the recoil a lot snappier than the Glock, M&P, or P30.

There'a absolutely no way I'd carry a gun with that light & short of a trigger break in an appendix holster.Your exposure will increase some, you'll have two PPQ's in the June AFHS class. Yes, I'm running one along with another one of your students. I'm curious to see how a sample of two fair in our high round count training days.

[ToddG]

gt -- I don't doubt they'll run well. I'm not aware of any major complaints about the PPQ in terms of reliability or durability.

[GOP]

Mine has run like a champ. Better than my Gen 3 Glock.

It's a solid pistol, meaning it shoots as well as I shoot it, goes pow when I pull the trigger, and is easy to carry. Mine works for me, I'm sticking with it because I have found what works for me and now want to improve my skill level instead of fiddling with different guns.

I personally want Todd to test something else. Something different than the normal polymer gun, something like a double-stacked 9mm 1911 or something similar. Todd has pretty much proven over his tests that all the major polymer guns are very reliable and accurate.

[guymontag]

Although not as high a profile endurance test that few have clamored for, I read a member of the Walther IPSC team claiming 40,000 rounds downrange with the Walther PPQ, and more with a Walther P99 model. I cannot validate the veracity of the statement, but I have no reason to doubt it.

[digiadaamore]

Although not as high a profile endurance test that few have clamored for, I read a member of the Walther IPSC team claiming 40,000 rounds downrange with the Walther PPQ, and more with a Walther P99 model. I cannot validate the veracity of the statement, but I have no reason to doubt it.

I cannot "validate" this per-say but i have spoken to the guys who did it. and yes the p99 got over 100,000. when i first started with the p99 i couldnt figure out why there were so few spare parts around besides springs, i was told it was simply because the parts dont break! that it wouldnt be worth distributing the parts it easier just to have someone order something on the rare occasion it does. also worth noting is that these numbers arent with the ridiculous crap we call ammo over here, its all with C.I.P ammo 115@1300 is the standard load:cool:

[Pennzoil]

I've not been overly impressed but in fairness my exposure and experience has been fairly limited. I handled an early one at SHOT in '11: the trigger was too light and short for my tastes viz-a-vis a safe gun to handle under extreme stress, plus the slide release lever was sharp and heavily sprung making it actually painful to depress. Since then I've been able to put a few rounds downrange with one and in addition to (still) not liking the trigger from a practical standpoint I also found the recoil a lot snappier than the Glock, M&P, or P30.

There'a absolutely no way I'd carry a gun with that light & short of a trigger break in an appendix holster.

This gave me a moment of pause when considering carrying my PPQ in the Shaggy I recently received. While it would be optimal to have something like the gadget or M&P like safety for this pistol I didn’t think it was any worse then carrying my Glocks or M&Ps AIWB. Though I think you would have to be a helmet wearing glass licker not to listen too and consider advice from an SME.

So I tried the best I could to compare a few of my past carry firearms against my PPQ to see how the triggers measured out. All guns have at least 6000 rounds through them in the follow configurations with the exception being the M&Ps having new trigger springs. I tried my best to measure pre-travel from trigger safety flush with trigger with no pressure on the trigger to just before the trigger would break. I have a ton of 9mm Glocks in the standard setup with them all coming within 5 oz of each other but used the one I carried for years in the past. I didn't bother putting a M&P back to stock configuration as I don't know or see anyone that keeps the stock trigger since the APEX kits came out:p. I threw in the APEX FSS kit just for kicks. Here is what I came up with after averaging 5 measurements keeping in mind sample size of only one PPQ.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9636/triggerpull.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/triggerpull.png/)

I thought the PPQ would come in lighter around the M&P duty carry kit but apparently the scale is more accurate then I am. It appears my PPQ is about the same as my Gen 3 Glock 19 with the Glock 3.5 connector in it.

[SecondsCount]

This gave me a moment of pause when considering carrying my PPQ in the Shaggy I recently received. While it would be optimal to have something like the gadget or M&P like safety for this pistol I didn’t think it was any worse then carrying my Glocks or M&Ps AIWB. Though I think you would have to be a helmet wearing glass licker not to listen too and consider advice from an SME.

.......

I thought the PPQ would come in lighter around the M&P duty carry kit but apparently the scale is more accurate then I am. It appears my PPQ is about the same as my Gen 3 Glock 19 with the Glock 3.5 connector in it.

Good information there, thanks for putting in the effort.

The issue for me is not so much the weight of the trigger pull, as I get squeamish holstering my Kahr K9 with the factory trigger, but I like a manual safety or hammer/gadget to determine that the trigger is not being inadvertently pressed.

[YVK]

Pennzoil, great info, thanks for taking the time. My trigger pull measuring device lacks precision, but overall results are consistent with yours. Specifically, I also find that Gen3 Glock with negative connector is around 5 lbs (I now run the dot connector with Gen3), and Gen4 with negative is slightly above 5.The DCAEK on my M&P is appreciably under 5, which isn't what I expected. No PPQ here.

As far as carrying/not carrying stuff in AIWB depending on trigger properties, that's hugely personal. Much like SC, I don't carry anything there that doesn't allow for an active control over the firing mechanism. My Glocks are waiting for the Gadget, rather impatiently.

[Pennzoil]

....
The issue for me is not so much the weight of the trigger pull, as I get squeamish holstering my Kahr K9 with the factory trigger, but I like a manual safety or hammer/gadget to determine that the trigger is not being inadvertently pressed.


....
As far as carrying/not carrying stuff in AIWB depending on trigger properties, that's hugely personal. Much like SC, I don't carry anything there that doesn't allow for an active control over the firing mechanism. My Glocks are waiting for the Gadget, rather impatiently.

I agree with both of you completely and feel the same way. I should have mentioned it in my post but I'm going to listen to Todd’s warning regarding carrying the PPQ AIWB. I like options so I would have got the Shaggy regardless and will keep it. The only reason I switched from Glock to M&P with Thumb safety in the past was becouse I wanted the safety for AIWB not feeling comfortable training with a Glock AIWB. It wasn't until I seen that data from my pistols I remembered this and I'm glad I took a moment to reevaluate. YVK, I'm also impatiently waiting for the Gadget and my PPQ will be shelved when it's released because even though I prefer the PPQ so much more then my Glocks. The Gadget is worth the trade offs for me to switch back to Glock. Hopefully the Gadget will someday be released for the PPQ....

For now I don't mind carrying the PPQ at 3 clock and attended my first pistol competition yesterday with the PPQ which was a good time. I'm going to try and work more pistol competitions in to my schedule for training so it makes sense to concentrate on 3 clock carry for now as I think it's required for the competitions I plan on attending. In regards to the PPQ I have improved my grip since my first impressions and my splits are currently the same as I was getting with my M&P. I'm still enjoying the PPQ.

[JodyH]

My wife told me last week that she used to really like her P99QA and that she'd like another one.
So I bought her a PPQ to try out.
Came in today and she put 100 rounds downrange.
Within one magazine she was shooting tighter groups at a faster pace than she ever has with her Glock 19.
Needless to say, she decided it's a keeper.
As a bonus, every leather IWB holster I own for my P2000 fits the PPQ perfectly.
She's adopted my Blackhawk CQC leather IWB as her own.
Another bonus is my stash of 16 round P99 mags worked perfectly as well.
I've always been a fan of the P99, looks like the PPQ is proof of evolution improving the species.

[NickA]

Jody- per the posts above yours, many people seem to think the trigger on the PPQ is too light and has too short a travel for safe AIWB carry. Do you have any thoughts on that yet?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[gtmtnbiker98]

PPQ AIWB is no different than a Glock. Unfortunately, the "gadget" doesn't exist for the PPQ. I personally do not carry the PPQ for defensive purposes since I do carry AIWB and use a hammer fired weapon in the form or an P2000SK for this task.

[JodyH]

Jody- per the posts above yours, many people seem to think the trigger on the PPQ is too light and has too short a travel for safe AIWB carry. Do you have any thoughts on that yet?

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2
It feels like a crisp Glock 3.5#.
I'm personally not comfortable with it AIWB at this time.
But.
My trigger time was limited to one magazine rapid fire and 10 rounds of precision at 20 yards so I don't have a good feel for the trigger yet.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

[NickA]

It feels like a crisp Glock 3.5#.
I'm personally not comfortable with it AIWB.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks, was just curious.
ETA : also thanks for the comparison to Glock. I've been toying with just a minus connector and no NY1 spring and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with it AIWB either.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[Rappahannock]

As a gone Walther fan, I feel a little hesitant about jumping in on this thread, but my experience with the PPQ is slightly different so I will note it. I bought a First Edition model with the extended threaded barrel, but since I don't use the suppressor I have much, bought a Jarvis barrel of regular length to use in the pistol. I've been shooting pistols for many years (probably 25), and have found I shoot better with the PPQ than anything I have experienced, even the BHPs that rose to the fore ten years ago.

The Jarvis barrel is certainly as accurate if not more so than the stock Walther barrel that came with the pistol.

Although I have been carrying a P99C lately, I wouldn't hesitate to carry the PPQ in my simple Theis IWB holster. I should also add that I have used up all the crap Russian ammunition I had in it (Silver Bear, Wolf, etc.) and it fired and ejected them all beautifully. Now I am ordering some quality American ammunition and look forward to seeing what the PPQ can do on a better diet.

I feel like a long journey to the ideal gun (for me) is complete and I have arrived with my Walthers. I far prefer them over Glocks or even those once revered Brownings. As a sidebar, it will be interesting to see if the success of the PPQ might change the dynamic between Walther and Smith & Wesson, whose promotion of the German product has been spotty at best and their service uneven as well.

[TGS]

What do you guys think about carrying the PPQ in a position other than AIWB? Seems to be a pretty popular sentiment that a sub-5lbs Glock trigger isn't appropriate for carry, nor is a cocked and unlocked pistol. Why the PPQ then?

[JodyH]

What do you guys think about carrying the PPQ in a position other than AIWB? Seems to be a pretty popular sentiment that a sub-5lbs Glock trigger isn't appropriate for carry, nor is a cocked and unlocked pistol. Why the PPQ then?
I'd carry it IWB 3-4 o'clock no problem, I've also carried a 3.5# Glock in that position.
I don't think there is anything inherently unsafe about the PPQ trigger.
It is pretty unforgiving of human error though and a screw up at 3:00 isn't nearly as potentially deadly as a screw up at 12:30.
With more trigger time I'd probably carry it AIWB in a kydex holster like the Fricke Archangel.
The design of the Archangel makes re-holstering easy with the fairly large opening and high shield which helps keep clothing out of the way.
With the PPQ I would kick up my re-holster paranoia several notches over my P2000 with it's hammer.

[Mr_White]

There are a number of ways to mitigate the concern of muzzle vs. groin/thigh/femoral artery when running a pistol AIWB.

Heavier trigger.

Manual safety.

Hammer, allowing thumb checking of the hammer, and thus movement of the fire control components of the gun.

The Gadget, allowing thumb checking of the fire control components of the gun.

Someone else said, and I agree, that if you are conscientious enough to thumb-check, then why can’t you be conscientious enough to keep your finger indexed? (This doesn’t address an obstructed holster however.)

Conscientious reholstering, which can include the Hard Break as taught by Todd and maybe others - visual verification of both the indexed trigger finger and unobstructed holster opening, levering the muzzle away from the body while reholstering, slow movement into the holster.

Management of muzzle direction via holster design.

One of the things that I wonder about comments I’ve read from people who prefer not to carry AIWB without a gun with either a hammer or manual safety, is what kind of holster are people using that allows the gun to point directly at your groin or femoral artery?

I’d be uncomfortable with that too, never mind what type of gun.

I run a Glock AIWB with a stock trigger spring and minus connector. If it were pointing at my groin or femoral artery, I’d be with you.

So I don’t let it point at my groin or femoral artery.

Management of muzzle direction via holster design is one of the primary ways I mitigate the risks of AIWB, especially given the gun/trigger I carry.

When standing (which is ~100% of my live fire practice) the gun is not pointed at my body at all. If I ND’d during reholstering, the bullet will strike the ground near my right foot. I might take frag in the foot. No part of my body will be struck directly with the bullet coming out of the pistol, however. Same thing if the gun somehow spontaneously fired while in the holster.

I’ll be real honest – sitting, the bullet might nick my right nut. I might get some muzzle blast/powder burns in any case. But I will not be shot directly.

Three AIWB holsters, that I know of, manage muzzle direction and keep the muzzle away from the body. They do that by using a pad or wedge that levers the muzzle away from the body and prevents flesh compression from allowing the muzzle to actually point directly at the user’s body. This also helps concealment by levering the grip of the gun into the abdomen. The holsters I am aware of that do that are:

The Garrity Invictus (no longer available?)

My old modified Blade-tech Nano.

The Keepers Concealment Keeper, which uses foam wedges to keep the muzzle away from the user’s body.

At this point, I feel safer running AIWB with the muzzle prevented from intersecting my groin or thigh during a standing draw or reholster, than I would going back to 4 o’clock IWB.

Now, I know my method (management of muzzle direction via holster design, and conscientious reholstering) isn't necessarily going to be the answer for everyone with every gun and every AIWB holster. But, that's how I mitigate the safety concerns of running a Glock with stock trigger spring and minus connector AIWB.

[TGS]

The holsters I am aware of that do that are:

JR Custom's AIWB also.

So would you be comfortable carrying the PPQ AIWB?

[Mr_White]

JR Custom's AIWB also.

So would you be comfortable carrying the PPQ AIWB?

Probably.

I don't have extensive experience with the PPQ, having only handled and shot it briefly on two occasions. My recollection was that I thought the trigger felt slightly lighter than my Glock with standard trigger spring and minus connector, but I'd have to get out the trigger gauge to be sure.

If I were considering the PPQ, which I am not, but if I were, I'd want to weigh the trigger - just so I would know - I don't think I'd end up disqualifying it based on that, and if I did, it would probably be on the basis of considering the trigger too light for my comfort as a defensive pistol in general, regardless of carry location.

I'd want to understand the passive safeties of the gun and it's action. I'd want to know if the striker was held fully or partially to the rear, and what mechanisms or design features prevented the gun from spontaneously firing (right nut when sitting again.)

Assuming I did not find those answers alarming in some way, which I doubt I would, I'd be ok carrying it with a holster that prevented the gun from pointing directly at my groin or femoral artery.

[k831]

Your exposure will increase some, you'll have two PPQ's in the June AFHS class. Yes, I'm running one along with another one of your students. I'm curious to see how a sample of two fair in our high round count training days.

Please keep us posted with a post-class report.

-via droid

[Mr_White]

JR Custom's AIWB also.

So would you be comfortable carrying the PPQ AIWB?

I have a little better answer for you now, since a student in one of this last weekend's basic pistol classes happened to bring a PPQ.

I shot a few rounds and dry fired it a little.

Didn't get out the trigger gauge, but my subjective impression is that it's a very nice trigger and if I wanted to run a PPQ, I'd run it AIWB.

I'd still want to better understand the action of the gun and passive internal safeties, particularly after skimming the earlier parts of this thread and seeing reference to the striker being 100% cocked.

I'd absolutely be using a holster (the Keeper) that prevents the holstered pistol from pointing directly at my groin or femoral artery during standing draws and reholsters, just as I do now with my Glock with stock trigger spring and minus connector.

Purely on the basis of the trigger pull, I'd be ok with the PPQ. It seemed substantially similar to a Glock with minus connector or M&P with DCAEK.

[EVP]

Just a quick disclaimer, I have no extensive personal experience with the PPQ other then putting a couple hundred rounds downrange.

I recall the trigger on the PPQ seemed to have a pretty short travel. I remember reading that someone put a scale to one that had a couple thousand rounds through it and it was measuring at like 4.25 pounds. Again I have not personally measured one or seen one measured on a scale.

Personally I would not carry it AIWB with the trigger travel as short as I remember it having. As high risk as AIWB can be it seems that a PPQ would add even more to that risk.

I have enough worry already about reholstering with a p30.

[Kyle Reese]

My significant other and myself spent a romantic evening at the NRA Range this evening, shooting her new Walther PPQ in 9mm. She found the controls intuitive, and her shooting tightened up a bit after several magazines. I find the stock sights to be the biggest drawback to the pistol. It's begging for Straight 8's, IMHO.

[JodyH]

My wife's shooting improved significantly after switching from the Glock 19 to the PPQ.
In under 500 rounds she's shooting at a higher level than she could with the Glock 19 after thousands of rounds and multiple classes.
On walkback drills she was nailing a 8" plate out to 35 yards on the first shot, with the G19 20 yards was a struggle.
I found the Walther/Trijicon sights to be an excellent blend of speed and accuracy.
If Trijicon would come out with a HD front sight it'd be perfect.

[roadsiderob]

I was pleased to see that Comp-Tac now offers a PPQ version of the Minotaur holster. I'm planning on ordering one next week. I've got over 1500 rounds through my PPQ over 6 months without any failures. Looking forward to finally being able to carry it IWB.

[Up1911Fan]

My JM Custom AIWB holster with the Extra Tuck option also wedge's the muzzle away from the body, reholstering with my CTC lasergrips activated clearly show's where the muzzle is pointed.

[jellydonut]

No one is in a hurry to reholster a gun. The draw needs to be fast, reholstering, not so much. Unless you're a high-risk entry team member, you would rarely need to actually 'speed-reholster'.

How about this:

1 - Visually check the holster for obstruction. if in low-light/no-light conditions, manually check it by running your hand/finger inside it. nothing in it? good.

2 - Place your booger hook on the side of the frame, extended. I thought we all did this?? in any case...

With these two items performed, it is in fact physically impossible for the trigger to be negligently pulled.

I see a lot of posts here talking about how this and that gadget, or angling the gun this way or that way, or such and such trigger weight, makes them 'feel' safe with AIWB. key word here: feel. it's a fuzzy feeling, and it's got little to nothing to do with reality or risk perception.

Mitigate the risk, and even this 'hair trigger' (not true, as proven by forum members with trigger weights) striker-fired gun is perfectly safe carried AIWB.

I mean, to each their own - just don't see why it's necessary for so many forum members to proclaim that this gun should not be carried AIWB due to how they 'feel' about it.

[JodyH]

Because there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.
Something as innocuous as a cord adjuster on a windbreaker can put a bullet in your femoral, despite your best efforts at verifying a clear holster and finger placement.

[JV_]

despite your best efforts at verifying a clear holster and finger placement.Exactly. I've seen someone lean back, look down the holster and verify it's clear, then lean forward (just a bit) at which point his shirt dropped in to the holster. If I hadn't pointed it out to him, it would have been wedged between the gun and holster.

[JHC]

Exactly. I've seen someone lean back, look down the holster and verify it's clear, then lean forward (just a bit) at which point his shirt dropped in to the holster. If I hadn't pointed it out to him, it would have been wedged between the gun and holster.

Makes me appreciate this RCS VG2 all the more (I follow RCS recommended re-holstering protocol).

[EMC]

Makes me appreciate this RCS VG2 all the more (I follow RCS recommended re-holstering protocol).

Agree.

[jellydonut]

Because there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.
Something as innocuous as a cord adjuster on a windbreaker can put a bullet in your femoral, despite your best efforts at verifying a clear holster and finger placement.

That's why you a) clear it and then b) keep it clear.


Exactly. I've seen someone lean back, look down the holster and verify it's clear, then lean forward (just a bit) at which point his shirt dropped in to the holster. If I hadn't pointed it out to him, it would have been wedged between the gun and holster.

So once he had verified it was clear, he did what with his support hand? Why did his support hand not keep the cover garment away? That's the only way I've seen anyone teach people how to reholster AIWB. Your support hand keeps the holster clear once you've verified it is clear, just like your support hand clears the cover garment during the draw. Same role during reholstering, just in reverse.

If you're somehow incapable of doing those two things at the same time, then okay. Maybe you shouldn't carry this gun AIWB. Or drive a car on public roads. Just saying.

[JV_]

he did what with his support hand? Why did his support hand not keep the cover garment away?

His support hand was holding up his cover/shirt, it was the t-shirt that got in to the holster.

It's happened to me before too, it's pretty easy when you're doing 300 draw and reholsters at the range. Perhaps you're perfect in your execution, every time, but I like the safeguard that an external hammer, or in my case The Gadget, offers.

Further discussion about AIWB, rather than specifics of the PPQ, should be redirected to this thread:
http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?120-AIWB-%28Appendix-Carry%29/page16

[JodyH]

Multiple layers of clothing including under shirts and over shirts, outer garments with cords and zipper pulls are all possible sources of holster "contamination".
The majority of my clothes are AIWB friendly, but there's always that jacket behind the seat of the truck or in the closet at the summer cabin that might be a problem.
As to physically verifying the holster is clear in the dark, that's great but how do you hold your cover garment out of the way and feel inside the holster at the same time?
How do you know the holster remains clear without keeping a hand inside the holster mouth? How do you holster the pistol with your hand in the way?

I've actually had a brass casing from the shooter next to me land in my holster before.

The most dangerous person on the range is the guy who's convinced himself of his infallibility.
I know I can screw up, that's why I prefer the added margin of safety a exposed hammer gives me when I carry AIWB.
I'd carry a PPQ AIWB, but I'd search out ways to give myself a cushion in case Murphy decides to crap in my holster.

[jellydonut]

Multiple layers of clothing including under shirts and over shirts, outer garments with cords and zipper pulls are all possible sources of holster "contamination".
The majority of my clothes are AIWB friendly, but there's always that jacket behind the seat of the truck or in the closet at the summer cabin that might be a problem.
As to physically verifying the holster is clear in the dark, that's great but how do you hold your cover garment out of the way and feel inside the holster at the same time?
How do you know the holster remains clear without keeping a hand inside the holster mouth? How do you holster the pistol with your hand in the way?

I've actually had a brass casing from the shooter next to me land in my holster before.

The most dangerous person on the range is the guy who's convinced himself of his infallibility.
I know I can screw up, that's why I prefer the added margin of safety a exposed hammer gives me when I carry AIWB.
I'd carry a PPQ AIWB, but I'd search out ways to give myself a cushion in case Murphy decides to crap in my holster.

I'm not saying I'm infallible, I'm saying that appendix-carrying a PPQ safely is perfectly doable, contrary to what many naysayers claim in this thread. The pages upon pages of this unfounded bovine fecal matter annoyed me to the point where I had to post. I apologize for doing so in a less than civil manner, at least to the ones who weren't doing that.

[JDM]

Everyone has an envelope of comfort, if you will, when they have a loaded gun pointed at a major artery. That envelope is different for everyone- some require an exposed hammer to be comfortable, some a thumb safety, and some people are perfectly comfortable with no safety other than not pulling the trigger. For lots of people the short, light PPQ trigger is outside that envelope. This is not "bs" or even unreasonable, it is a part of the human condition. Different people are going to like different things.

There is no reason to be hostile because people have different tolerances for danger, or perceived danger.

[Red Leader]

Everyone has an envelope of comfort, if you will, when they have a loaded gun pointed at a major artery. That envelope is different for everyone- some require an exposed hammer to be comfortable, some a thumb safety, and some people are perfectly comfortable with no safety other than not pulling the trigger. For lots of people the short, light PPQ trigger is outside that envelope. This is not "bs" or even unreasonable, it is a part of the human condition. Different people are going to like different things.

There is no reason to be hostile because people have different tolerances for danger, or perceived danger.


Is it the general consensus that AIWB = gun pointed at major artery/organs/future children, and just therefore be assumed as such? I only ask because in threads inside and outside this forum I have heard reference to carrying AIWB without it necessarily pointing at you...some going as far to say that if it is pointing at your major artery, it is not being done correctly. I only ask because I've never carried AIWB but because of my frame, it would definitely have its merits. A major perk would also be if I'm not creating a more dangerous situation for myself. As such, I know that there is no substitute for good practice/training.

I'll read up on AIWB more.

[ToddG]

I'm not saying I'm infallible, I'm saying that appendix-carrying a PPQ safely is perfectly doable, contrary to what many naysayers claim in this thread. The pages upon pages of this unfounded bovine fecal matter annoyed me to the point where I had to post.

I don't think anyone said it's impossible. It's as easy to carry a PPQ aiwb as any other gun of similar shape and size.

What some have said -- myself included -- is that the PPQ's trigger is unforgiving of mistakes, and mistakes with aiwb can be deadly. It has a short and light trigger break. It should be rather apparent that the shorter and lighter your trigger break, the less it will take to make the gun go off. The gun doesn't know if you're trying to shoot zombies or holster the gun... you put enough force on the trigger to move it the requisite distance and it goes bang. There's nothing "BS" about that. It's pretty straightforward physics.

If you think you have a protocol for holstering a PPQ that's adequate enough to meet your comfort level, knock yourself out. I wouldn't do it. But then I have a protocol for holstering, say, a P30 or my 1911 in an aiwb that's adequate enough to meet my comfort level, and there are plenty of people who wouldn't do that. To each his own.

[YVK]

Is it the general consensus that AIWB = gun pointed at major artery/organs/future children, and just therefore be assumed as such?

Actual answer is "it depends". You can feel your common femoral pulse pretty easily; in most people it is somewhere in the groin crease. From there it divides with one major branch going almost vertically, and second one going wide. AIWB varies widely, depending on the person, from almost at the belt buckle to almost at the hip bone. Arterial course varies too. Then there is barrel length where longer bbl may actually be beneficial. Then there is sitting vs standing. After you plug it all in, there is too much variability to predict.
The assumption of gun covering the artery is a correct defensive posture because one will in fact die if any of proximal arteries of the leg are hit even if this happened within 5 mile radius from a trauma center.

Re PPQ: to put what BOM and Todd said in a prospective, I wouldn't carry that pistol in any position. Sounds ridiculous to many happy PPQ owners, some of which I know personally, but that's what my current comfort zone is.

[GJM]

The assumption of gun covering the artery is a correct defensive posture because one will in fact die if any of proximal arteries of the leg are hit even if this happened within 5 mile radius from a trauma center.

Probably should be on a label that accompanies each appendix holster.

[LittleLebowski]

I don't think anyone said it's impossible. It's as easy to carry a PPQ aiwb as any other gun of similar shape and size.

What some have said -- myself included -- is that the PPQ's trigger is unforgiving of mistakes, and mistakes with aiwb can be deadly. It has a short and light trigger break. It should be rather apparent that the shorter and lighter your trigger break, the less it will take to make the gun go off. The gun doesn't know if you're trying to shoot zombies or holster the gun... you put enough force on the trigger to move it the requisite distance and it goes bang. There's nothing "BS" about that. It's pretty straightforward physics.

If you think you have a protocol for holstering a PPQ that's adequate enough to meet your comfort level, knock yourself out. I wouldn't do it. But then I have a protocol for holstering, say, a P30 or my 1911 in an aiwb that's adequate enough to meet my comfort level, and there are plenty of people who wouldn't do that. To each his own.

Indeed, the PPQ needs a Gadget :D

[Rappahannock]

It may seem like retrograde thinking, but as an owner of both a PPQ and a P99, I much prefer the P99 just because of the concerns voiced in this thread. The P99 has many of the features I like about the PPQ, but the decocker adds a level of comfort that I don't get from the PPQ. At the range, the PPQ shines. On my side is my P99 in a Kaluban Cloak holster - a perfect combination in my thinking.

[balance]

I'm not going to argue comfort level, because I myself wouldn't carry a pistol I felt was unsafe, but would the guys uncomfortable with carrying a PPQ feel any safer with a Glock?

I don't understand why the PPQ gets the label of "unsafe" for more people (recently) than Glocks do, since both have a similar trigger travel distance, similar trigger weight, similar reset distance, similar trigger/drop safety, etc.

[LittleLebowski]

In my experience, the PPQ has a noticeably lighter trigger than a Glock.

[digiadaamore]

In my experience, the PPQ has a noticeably lighter trigger than a Glock.

extremely noticeably on a broken in PPQ. i had my ppq for about 6 months before my picked up his g22, it felt like a dao revolver in comparison:cool:

[balance]

It feels that way, but has anyone put a pull gauge on both a broken in PPQ and a broken in Gen 3 Glock?

Walther advertises the PPQ as having a 5.5lb trigger.

[YVK]

In my experience, the PPQ has a noticeably lighter trigger than a Glock.

This has been my experience too, even when compared to a Glock with a negative connector.


It feels that way, but has anyone put a pull gauge on both a broken in PPQ and a broken in Gen 3 Glock?

Walther advertises the PPQ as having a 5.5lb trigger.

I think Gtmtbiker measured it at 4.25 lbs, and Pennzoil also did some weight comparisons. The data even may be somewhere in this thread. My Gen3/dot connector and Gen4/negative connector are both over 5 lbs.

[balance]

I think Gtmtbiker measured it at 4.25 lbs, and Pennzoil also did some weight comparisons. The data even may be somewhere in this thread. My Gen3/dot connector and Gen4/negative connector are both over 5 lbs.

That's interesting.

I've heard of people putting a pull gauge on a PPQ and seeing pull weights of around 5lbs, but I don't know how many rounds were fired through these pistols. Nevermind then, I thought there was less of a difference.

[gtmtnbiker98]

This has been my experience too, even when compared to a Glock with a negative connector.



I think Gtmtbiker measured it at 4.25 lbs, and Pennzoil also did some weight comparisons. The data even may be somewhere in this thread. My Gen3/dot connector and Gen4/negative connector are both over 5 lbs.
That's correct but I also have pistol that is well broken in.

[98z28]

It feels that way, but has anyone put a pull gauge on both a broken in PPQ and a broken in Gen 3 Glock?

Walther advertises the PPQ as having a 5.5lb trigger.


As close as we have so far:

From page 18 of this thread:


This gave me a moment of pause when considering carrying my PPQ in the Shaggy I recently received. While it would be optimal to have something like the gadget or M&P like safety for this pistol I didn’t think it was any worse then carrying my Glocks or M&Ps AIWB. Though I think you would have to be a helmet wearing glass licker not to listen too and consider advice from an SME.

So I tried the best I could to compare a few of my past carry firearms against my PPQ to see how the triggers measured out. All guns have at least 6000 rounds through them in the follow configurations with the exception being the M&Ps having new trigger springs. I tried my best to measure pre-travel from trigger safety flush with trigger with no pressure on the trigger to just before the trigger would break. I have a ton of 9mm Glocks in the standard setup with them all coming within 5 oz of each other but used the one I carried for years in the past. I didn't bother putting a M&P back to stock configuration as I don't know or see anyone that keeps the stock trigger since the APEX kits came out:p. I threw in the APEX FSS kit just for kicks. Here is what I came up with after averaging 5 measurements keeping in mind sample size of only one PPQ.
http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/9636/triggerpull.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/515/triggerpull.png/)

I thought the PPQ would come in lighter around the M&P duty carry kit but apparently the scale is more accurate then I am. It appears my PPQ is about the same as my Gen 3 Glock 19 with the Glock 3.5 connector in it.

[Dave J]

I don't own a PPQ, but whenver I see trigger pull weights come up, I always find myself wondering as to how they were measured.

Typically, folks place the trigger pull gauge in the center of the trigger. While that's fine for repeatable measurement, it's not necessarily where any particular shooter is going to put their finger. If the shooter's finger naturally falls lower on the trigger, the "felt" resistance will be lower.

Just a thought, that might explain some variance in perception between different folks who have commented.

[Alaskapopo]

Playing with both side by side my roommates PPQ feels just like a Gen 3 Glockw ith a 3.5 pound connnector. Good trigger. Downsides to this gun are high bore axis which magnifies muzzle flip.
Pat

[YVK]

I don't own a PPQ, but whenver I see trigger pull weights come up, I always find myself wondering as to how they were measured.

Typically, folks place the trigger pull gauge in the center of the trigger. While that's fine for repeatable measurement, it's not necessarily where any particular shooter is going to put their finger. If the shooter's finger naturally falls lower on the trigger, the "felt" resistance will be lower.

Just a thought, that might explain some variance in perception between different folks who have commented.

And that's why "subjective" user perception is just as important here as pull scale. It took too little of a finger pressure for me to drop the striker on two samples of PPQ, 9 and 40, that I've tried, just as my personal Apex'd M&P is too light for my tastes (but at least I have an option of a Mass-compliant trs/bar). My Gocks offer me more resistance.
The pull weight data is just a confirmation (i.e. Gtmtn's well broken PPQ is lighter than my well-broken 1911 cocked/unlocked/grip safety disabled...)

[LittleLebowski]

Are there any springs available to make the pull heavier?

[balance]

Are there any springs available to make the pull heavier?

A stronger trigger return spring is all it would take for a heavier pull up to the break. As of right now, I don't know of anyone making aftermarket springs for the PPQ.

Walther does make a heavier striker spring for the PPQ Navy. If installed in a regular PPQ, there is a possibility that it would make the trigger break slightly heavier.

[digiadaamore]

That's correct but I also have pistol that is well broken in.

how long had you been shooting it? for about the first 250 it felt exactly the same as when i did my dryfire practice brand new, then somewhere between 500-750 it noticeably smoothed out at the break and lightened

[rockymtnnut]

The Ppq is that good that the Glock guys think the trigger is " to light" the trigger is the way a trigger should feel. Don't get me wrong I was one of those guys. I just order one last night after shooting one . I hope the reliability is there I don't see why it wouldn't be . I liked it.better than both my p30 and my 23 and my 19....

[rockymtnnut]

Are there any springs available to make the pull heavier?

the pull is already at 5.5 lbs on a new Ppq.

[joshs]

the pull is already at 5.5 lbs on a new Ppq.

Read above where one broken-in PPQ measured 4.25 lbs.

[LittleLebowski]

the pull is already at 5.5 lbs on a new Ppq.

Felt lighter to me. Perhaps that was an artifact of a short length of trigger pull.

[gtmtnbiker98]

how long had you been shooting it? for about the first 250 it felt exactly the same as when i did my dryfire practice brand new, then somewhere between 500-750 it noticeably smoothed out at the break and lightenedThe "grit" in the take up is still there, believe it or not so I can't call it smooth at all. My trigger was < 5 lbs out of the box.

If I get time and remember, I'll take my second PPQ out to the range, this one has right at 500 rounds on it and I'll test the trigger pull weight compared against my primary PPQ. I haven't measured the trigger pull on my primary PPQ for several weeks. Kind of curious where it's sitting at, now. I don't think it has lightened up anymore.

I've never perceived the PPQ as having too light of a trigger and perhaps you can get an unbiased opinion from ToddG since he's shot my PPQ that had the 4.25 LB trigger.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Are there any springs available to make the pull heavier?
There was a member on Waltherforum who received a replacement spring for his "too light trigger." As for anything making the trigger weight heaver, not that I'm aware of.

[Pennzoil]

Anyone else with a PPQ had issues with the rounds binding up in the magazine around the 6 and 7th witness hole? Shooting production class in USPSA and steel matches I started seeing this quite a bit even with clean magazines loaded to 10rds. Here is an example of what I've been seeing.
http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5800/img0588tv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img195/83/img0589ut.jpg
Yes the magazine is dirty but not bad for desert standards compared to other guns I've run in the past that didn't choke like this. I'm back to shooting my glock now.

[balance]

Anyone else with a PPQ had issues with the rounds binding up in the magazine around the 6 and 7th witness hole? Shooting production class in USPSA and steel matches I started seeing this quite a bit even with clean magazines loaded to 10rds. Here is an example of what I've been seeing.
http://imageshack.us/a/img191/5800/img0588tv.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img195/83/img0589ut.jpg
Yes the magazine is dirty but not bad for desert standards compared to other guns I've run in the past that didn't choke like this. I'm back to shooting my glock now.

I haven't seen this before, but I'm curious about what exactly is getting stuck, and where.

Is it the ammo or the follower?

Looking at those pictures, it looks like it is the ammo getting stuck, otherwise the rounds should have fallen out when the mag was turned sideways or upside down.

Did this happen with all mags, and was the same ammo used in all of them? Did you notice anything wrong with the mag body in that area when the mag was taken apart. I notice that you said that this was happening on clean mags as well.

Also, why is your follower black? 9mm PPQ mags come with an orange follower.

[Gary1911A1]

I haven't seen this before, but I'm curious about what exactly is getting stuck, and where.

Is it the ammo or the follower?

Looking at those pictures, it looks like it is the ammo getting stuck, otherwise the rounds should have fallen out when the mag was turned sideways or upside down.

Did this happen with all mags, and was the same ammo used in all of them? Did you notice anything wrong with the mag body in that area when the mag was taken apart. I notice that you said that this was happening on clean mags as well.

Also, why is your follower black? 9mm PPQ mags come with an orange follower.

I was thinking some imperfection in a weld or crude build up inside the magazine too. My followers on my 99AS are black and it may be the OP are using these.

[JV_]

My M&Ps did that frequently.

[balance]

My M&Ps did that frequently.

Did you find the cause?

[JV_]

Did you find the cause?Nope.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I was thinking some imperfection in a weld or crude build up inside the magazine too. My followers on my 99AS are black and it may be the OP are using these.Yes, the followers on the P99 are black and the PPQ's are bright orange. They are the same magazine and are interchangeable between firearms (as long as the P99 mags are the latest release).

[balance]

The mag in that picture doesn't seem to have the polished look of the P99 or MR mags. I was assuming it was a PPQ mag, but it could just be dirt or the picture that is throwing me off.

[Pennzoil]

Sorry I should of mentioned this magazine is a magnum research baby desert eagle but I've had this also happen with my stock PPQ magazines. I had 12 magazines for practice/matches (half PPQ/half magnum research) so I can load them all at home and shoot an entire match with out having to load magazines between stages.

The first couple times this happened I trashed the magazine thinking the it was just worn out. The last steel match I shoot with the PPQ I had this happen on every stage all with different magazines.

What would happen is I would fire 3 to 4 rounds and then I'd experience a malfunction. When I'd pick the mag up after finishing the stage I'd usually find some loose rounds on the ground with 2 to 3 rounds still in the magazine. I think maybe the rounds are getting wedged with the top round nose diving but I'm not sure:confused:.

I'm shooting 124gr aguila factory ammunition which has been great ammo for thousands of rounds. Only time I see this is when I have down load magazines for matches and never had it happen when the magazine is fully loaded. Also I didn't notice anything wrong with the magazine body or followers.

[Crow Hunter]

Sorry I should of mentioned this magazine is a magnum research baby desert eagle but I've had this also happen with my stock PPQ magazines. I had 12 magazines for practice/matches (half PPQ/half magnum research) so I can load them all at home and shoot an entire match with out having to load magazines between stages.

The first couple times this happened I trashed the magazine thinking the it was just worn out. The last steel match I shoot with the PPQ I had this happen on every stage all with different magazines.

What would happen is I would fire 3 to 4 rounds and then I'd experience a malfunction. When I'd pick the mag up after finishing the stage I'd usually find some loose rounds on the ground with 2 to 3 rounds still in the magazine. I think maybe the rounds are getting wedged with the top round nose diving but I'm not sure:confused:.

I'm shooting 124gr aguila factory ammunition which has been great ammo for thousands of rounds. Only time I see this is when I have down load magazines for matches and never had it happen when the magazine is fully loaded. Also I didn't notice anything wrong with the magazine body or followers.

Can you recreate it just thumbing rounds out of the magazine?

Does the follower travel smooth throughout the length of the magazine?

Can you cause the follower to catch and hang up like that with a pencil or something?

If you get that condition can you push the cartridge stack down a little and "reset it" and the rounds come up to the proper position or does it stay stuck?

Is there a transition point around where the rounds are stuck where the mag body is starting to go from a straight wall to narrow or is it below that point?

[balance]

I would try a different ammo first, since it is effecting different mags. If it happens with different ammo, then I don't know what it could be. If it was a design issue, I assume that there would be more reports of this happening.

[Doc_Glock]

Just adding my report of rounds binding. 124 grain Speer Lawman 15 round magazine. It happened twice with the same magazine, then was fine for multiple reloads of the same with different ammo. What concerns me is the randomness of the malfunction.

16415

[ScotchMan]

Yay zombie thread. Did it only happen with one magazine? Any issues with other mags? How many rounds through the gun and through the affected magazine(s)?