Range rules: shooting vs. brass collecting

[Clusterfrack]

Folks, I need some help. My home range (Tri County Gun Club) doesn't have an explicit policy regarding who has priority on our action range: shooters or brass collectors.

Today my buddy and I wanted to use a bay, but a guy was collecting brass. He had not been shooting--just wanted the range brass. We asked him to leave so we could shoot, but he refused. I phoned the RO, but things didn't go as I expected. The executive RO showed up and ruled that the brass collector could stay in the bay since he was there first.

Do you have any documented policy from ranges with action-shooting type bays? I'm trying to convince our Board that we need a policy that gives shooters priority over brass collectors.

--Thanks--

[BaiHu]

No documentation, but isn't the place a "shooting range"? Brass rats should simply make a deal and say, "I'll take off for X minutes if you let me come back and grab some of your brass too." Why is it so difficult for people to just be humans these days?

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[Peally]

Unless it was his brass from the shooting he just got done with he can GTFO. No one sits around waiting for some guy to clean up all the .22 on a rifle range, no reason they need to wait for some idiot to pick all the scrap up out of a bay.

ETA: It's really sad that the board needs to be convinced of this.

[GJM]

Shooting and shooters take precedence, unless there is a report of one or more .38 Super Comp cases being missing, at which point we call a general cease fire on all bays, and form up side by side until we find them all.

[M2CattleCo]

Back when I used to shoot 1911s I gave an old man a 5 gallon bucket full of once fired, large primer, 45 brass in exchange for him promising to quit pecking around while we were there shooting. It was mostly annoying but also painful to see the old fart trying to do all that bending over and standing up.

[Lomshek]

Shooting and shooters take precedence, unless there is a report of one or more .38 Super Comp cases being missing, at which point we call a general cease fire on all bays, and form up side by side until we find them all.
Ok now that's funny!

Cluster, I don't have anything policy-wise to help as the small range I help run has never had that be a problem but if it were the brass whore would be told to stand down. NFW does a guy just randomly gathering up brass (not his) get preference over the folks who want to shoot. If he just wants to vacuum up brass he can do it at 0700.

[Robinson]

At least one of my local ranges has a policy stating you can pick up your own brass but if you start picking up other peoples' brass you will be fined $25. The policy is posted on their website. Not sure if/how they enforce it.

[Suvorov]

At my range, brass is collected and sold as scrap. The only person who is allowed to collect their brass is the actual shooter, otherwise the brass it the property of the range - thus anyone out collecting brass is violating a range rule.

[HCM]

At my range, brass is collected and sold as scrap. The only person who is allowed to collect their brass is the actual shooter, otherwise the brass it the property of the range - thus anyone out collecting brass is violating a range rule.

Same here. Picking up brass other than your own in my "home" range will get you asked to leave and never allowed back.

[Totem Polar]

I wish I could be of help, but I don't have any info to offer beyond quoting the same type of rules that others have mentioned, relative to my own home ranges.

Really, I'm only posting to say: "your brass rat guy is a douche."

Not very helpful, I know, but them's the facts.

[Hambo]

I have belonged to several ranges, and none of them gave preference to brass rats over shooters. In fact, only one let people pick up brass other than their own, but the one or two brass rats had the common decency to just pick up around the benches. Gather other shooters, complain loudly, threaten to leave your money and brass elsewhere, and hopefully the board will get it.

[Luke]

Did he have ear pro? If not it's time to give home some more brass. Take that firing line up to where he's even or slightly behind you and make it rain brass. You may even consider a snub 357 just for this reason.

[Clusterfrack]

Dudes--thanks for the support. I've been discussing this with our club president. I'll post again when I have some more info. If anyone finds anything in their club's rulebook, please post.

Meanwhile, brass rat stories are welcome here :D

[Rich@CCC]

Well, It looks like I'm going to be in the minority here.

Is this a membership/private range? What are the rules as far as bay usage for anything else?

At my private, members only range you sign in with a date/time. If you are alone on the range, you own the range for 1 hour, regardless of what you are doing. Load work up, bench rest, plinking, what ever. The range is yours for 1 hour. After that, anyone can ask you to give up the range for their hour or share the range at THEIR discretion as it belongs to them for the next hour.

So, if the brass rat had signed in and he owned the range he would have his hour to collect brass and be perfectly justified in telling you to come back later. That is, at my range. YMMV

[Suvorov]

Dudes--thanks for the support. I've been discussing this with our club president. I'll post again when I have some more info. If anyone finds anything in their club's rulebook, please post.

Meanwhile, brass rat stories are welcome here :D

Do you need an actual copy of our Bylaws?

[Clusterfrack]

Well, It looks like I'm going to be in the minority here.

Is this a membership/private range? What are the rules as far as bay usage for anything else?

At my private, members only range you sign in with a date/time. If you are alone on the range, you own the range for 1 hour, regardless of what you are doing. Load work up, bench rest, plinking, what ever. The range is yours for 1 hour. After that, anyone can ask you to give up the range for their hour or share the range at THEIR discretion as it belongs to them for the next hour.

So, if the brass rat had signed in and he owned the range he would have his hour to collect brass and be perfectly justified in telling you to come back later. That is, at my range. YMMV

We don't have any signup for the Action Range bays. First come, first served. In this case, there were other open bays, but the brass collector was in the bay we wanted to use (it's the one best suited for setting up USPSA type practice). My opinion is that shooting should always take priority over collecting range brass. This is what the RO's have enforced in the past, and that's the rule I'm trying to get the Board to adopt.

[Clusterfrack]

Do you need an actual copy of our Bylaws?


Yes, please. Or a link.

[Totem Polar]

My opinion is that shooting should always take priority over collecting range brass. This is what the RO's have enforced in the past, and that's the rule I'm trying to get the Board to adopt.

And there's the rub. Reason that I can't be more helpful—along with many others here, I suspect—is that having a rule that shooting comes first over poaching brass seems laughable on the face of it. That's like a commercial kitchen in a popular restaurant having to formalize a rule stating that cooking orders for customers takes precedence over sourcing compost from the garbage cans and drain disposal unit during lunch and dinner rush. It's like, the ultimate "duh" moment... right up until it isn't, for some random person.

The two ranges I frequent most both state that nobody can be forward of the line without an employee's assistance, and one has a prominent sign saying that shooters can pick up their own brass, but anyone picking up any other brass will be asked to leave; enforced by video surveillance.

Scavenging brass v training probably hasn't hit the radar at either place... yet...


On edit: I checked online for the bylaws of the ranges in my area that have them posted; no specific brass language. One idea that might be of use would be to tie brass scavenging into language around 'designated range clean up/maintenance days' if your range has them. If they don't have them, maybe it's time to implement something along those lines.

[Suvorov]

Yes, please. Or a link.

I will work on it - it isn't stated on our website range rules but that doesn't have a complete list of our bylaws. There are signs all up around the range complex but it will probably be quicker for me to track down a copy of the laws than wait for my next vist.

[Kyle Reese]

I wish that I had more brass cased, Berdan primed 9mm FMJ on hand. The brass rats are welcome to the empties.

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[Serpico1985]

I have had old men at my range literally try to catch my .45 brass out of the air. That's actually the least irritating thing that routinely happens.

On numerous occasions I have had members approach me while I was shooting to inform me that I was violating the SOP by allowing my muzzle to point above the berm during reloads. You know, empty gun, slide locked back, maybe angled up at 15 to 20 degrees. This is a bi-product of the range being overwhelming run by people without any modern shooting training who apply the rules selectively. Drives me crazy. Makes me want to rage quit. I've come close many times. If there were any other reasonable options I'd tell them where they could shove their SOPs.

Sorry for the side rant. Best of luck with issue.

[Clusterfrack]

Serpico--sounds like we shoot at the same range...

[Olim9]

I occasionally hit the range on Sundays dressed like this hoarding brass along with holding a net next to shooters.

15657

It's a guilty pleasure of mine. I'm sorry.

[Luke]

I really want to come to yalls range.

[Clusterfrack]

I occasionally hit the range on Sundays dressed like this hoarding brass along with holding a net next to shooters.

15657

It's a guilty pleasure of mine. I'm sorry.

LOLOL!!! I'm putting that on a wanted poster and posting it at the action range.

[45dotACP]

Just drop a few twice used 9 major cases around those guys...They LOVE that.

Assuming of course, that you get two uses from your 9 major case...

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[Luke]

Just drop a few twice used 9 major cases around those guys...They LOVE that.

Assuming of course, that you get two uses from your 9 major case...

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I LOVE leaving 9major. I also keep all my .380's and plan to dump them out as the situation dictates.

[Jim Watson]

I haven't seen anything so wild. Matches allow brass pickup after the last shot and targets are struck. I am one of those old guys and am usually too tired to stoop. I recover brass from practice and buy or trade for empties.
One commercial range here limits brass recovery to your own stuff.
We shall see about the new place alleged to open this month.

If all else fails, revolvers and .22s still work.

[Olim9]

LOLOL!!! I'm putting that on a wanted poster and posting it at the action range.

Go for it. If you do ever see one I'm the one with multicam sordins

[Robinson]

Some of y'alls' stories make me glad that all of my local ranges are fairly decent.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Brass rats who won't tape as they scuttle out with some gadget to pick up brass from those who don't want it - have been given the boot from a match.

[JCN]

One guy was at the 25 yard line, would shoot one bullet slow fire and then walk around to find the case.

Drove me nuts to be on the same range as him.

Shortly thereafter I bought some land for my own “I don’t want to be around anyone” range.

[UNK]

You guys should retire. Then you can go during the day weekdays when almost no one is there.

[1911Nut]

You guys should retire. Then you can go during the day weekdays when almost no one is there.

Unless you live in the greater Phoenix, AZ area, where there are about half a million retirees hanging out at the shooting ranges.

[DDTSGM]

You guys should retire. Then you can go during the day weekdays when almost no one is there.

Yep, it's nice, I rarely see anyone.

I lay out canvas harbor freight paint sheets for my rifle and poly tarps for my pistol. Takes a little more time but I generally get all my brass back.

The disadvantage is that if I'm doing drills with movement, I have to go to the next tarp to shoot if I want to get my brass back without looking for it in the grass.

[UNK]

Unless you live in the greater Phoenix, AZ area, where there are about half a million retirees hanging out at the shooting ranges.

Bastards!

[RancidSumo]

This kind of thing is why I’m a big fan of my home range’s reservation policy. All ranges are booked online for 3 hour max blocks. That time is yours to do whatever you want. Keeps you from having people come fuck up your range when trying to shoot and you know if you drive all the way out there, the range will be open to do exactly what you want with it.

[Salamander]

Just checked the SOP for one of the ranges where I'm a RSO, and there's no mention of collecting brass. So basically it's at the RSO's discretion. It's a members only club, usually not crowded, lots of long range bench rest guys so it's a pretty civil and professional place. Someone wants to go out front and pick up brass, they negotiate the timing with the other shooters. There usually isn't much at the end of the day, lots of bolt guns and people are tidy. Can't speak to competitions which have their own RSOs, or the occasional LEO training events which tend to leave tons of brass, in theory any of us RSOs with keys could go out there on a weekday when only RSOs can shoot and collect it, and I assume a few people do so. The SOP should be posted somewhere at www.lpgac.org

The other range is pistol only and open to the public, skill levels from mediocre to pretty good but more of the former. It's only open two evenings per week for two hours each time so there's some frantic brass salvage at times. The rules are simple: No picking up brass in front of the line until closing time. Behind the line, about half of the shooters pick up their own brass when they can do so safely, the rest we sweep up at the end of the night. The lead rangemaster sorts it in his spare time, sells some at fair prices and puts the money back into the range, and occasionally gives some to reloaders who are not in good financial situations. It amazes me how much brass we sweep up some nights though. I've seen only a couple of hoarders over the years and they were chased off pretty quickly when they tried to take brass from behind someone who reloads. We did just get one clarification: If the RSO makes a decision it stands for that night, any appeal is discussed at the next monthly board meeting. No one has tested that yet.