.38 special HST?

[LOBO]

Has anyone seen/read any testing of the .38 special 130 gr. +P HST?

[ssb]

I'm not even sure that's on the market yet. Could have sworn I'd seen second quarter 2017 on the release?

[LOBO]

Thanks.

[LtDave]

FYI the .38 Special HST is now out in the wild. A little over $1.00 per round. I just ordered some from TSS Outfitters, Federal # P38HST1S. WikiArms shows that Bang It Arms also has it in stock.

[LOBO]

FYI the .38 Special HST is now out in the wild. A little over $1.00 per round. I just ordered some from TSS Outfitters, Federal # P38HST1S. WikiArms shows that Bang It Arms also has it in stock.

Thanks for the heads up.

[LtDave]

They arrived. Hollow point very reminiscent of a reversed HBWC. Plus P. Pic follows:
16535

[blues]

Dave, have you got any Winchester Ranger RA38B you can test and compare it to? Looking forward to your impressions on the new ammo.

[LtDave]

Dave, have you got any Winchester Ranger RA38B you can test and compare it to? Looking forward to your impressions on the new ammo.

I do and will, but it will be a week or so before I get to the range.

[blues]

I do and will, but it will be a week or so before I get to the range.

You're doing us the favor, brother. Thank you.

[KhanRad]

Look at the meplat on those suckers! Probably cuts better than a wadcutter even if it doesn't expand. Makes me want to get into .38spl. Hopefully Doc will do some tests with these.

[hufnagel]

looking forward to seeing results of this.

[LOBO]

looking forward to seeing results of this.

Me too! My .38 special carry load for a long time has been the Corbon 110 gr DPX, but since it is now discontinued this HST load may be the one to take its place.

[Joe in PNG]

Ditto. I'm probably going to get a 442/642 as an NPE/house gun, and this load looks good.

[entropy]

Damn. That thing looks like an inverted lugnut.

[JAD]

Has federal published test data?

[Frank R]

I read somewhere the ammo had poor penetration results.

[LtDave]

Has federal published test data?

None that I can find. Not even MV.

[DocGKR]

I am involved in another project at the moment and will not likely be doing any extraneous testing until the Fall.

[hufnagel]

We'll wait. :)

[warpedcamshaft]

Anyone in contact with that shootingthebull410 guy? Maybe he would test some if we sent him some.

I always thought that guy was about 5 steps above the rest of the youtube cough cough... "ballistics channels"



EDIT:

Looks like he hasn't done much for about 8 months... but he was one of the few guys I've seen on the interwebs shoot real calibrated ballistics gel with the proper spec denim instead of using that clear stuff.

And he could form complete sentences.

[KhanRad]

I read somewhere the ammo had poor penetration results.

The 99gr .380 HST with that low sectional density for sure, but the .38spl with 130gr HST?.......I would think it would do just as well as the 9mm 124gr HST at the least.

[Frank R]

The 99gr .380 HST with that low sectional density for sure, but the .38spl with 130gr HST?.......I would think it would do just as well as the 9mm 124gr HST at the least.

Why would you think that since there's such a difference in velocity between the two?

[KhanRad]

Why would you think that since there's such a difference in velocity between the two?

I'm sure Dr. Roberts can correct me if I am wrong, but in general the most important characteristic in determining penetration depth in an expanding projectile is the bullet's sectional density. The 130gr .38spl has a greater sectional density than the 124gr 9mm load. As long as the .38spl load can travel at least 900fps, I would bet that it would at least equal the performance of the standard pressure 124gr 9mm HST.

[DocGKR]

Yes--"shooting the bull" appears to be the best of the internet folks.

Sectional density is important, but so is projectile construction.

[Frank R]

I'm sure Dr. Roberts can correct me if I am wrong, but in general the most important characteristic in determining penetration depth in an expanding projectile is the bullet's sectional density. The 130gr .38spl has a greater sectional density than the 124gr 9mm load. As long as the .38spl load can travel at least 900fps, I would bet that it would at least equal the performance of the standard pressure 124gr 9mm HST.

Unless you have an over abundance of disposable cash, I'd be more cautious about making bets until you have your facts straight.

[ssb]

Why would you think that since there's such a difference in velocity between the two?

While I'd assume it runs around 850fps like most other +P 130gr, where are you getting your information? Earlier you stated you read this load had low penetration? Where?

[KhanRad]

Unless you have an over abundance of disposable cash, I'd be more cautious about making bets until you have your facts straight.

When it comes to the mechanics of ballistics science, I have couple of decades worth of "facts". If you think that velocity is the primary attribute concerning bullet penetration after expansion then you are going to be hard pressed to find any "facts" to help your case.

[UpDok]

It certainly does not count as scientific "testing" but I shot a 20 rd. box of these Federal # P38HST1S through my S&W 642 at an indoor range today at 25 ft. They cut nice wad-cutter type holes in the paper target. I did not have a chronograph available but subjectively the recoil seemed to be a little less than the .38 Sp. 135gr Gold Dot short barrel +P load that I also shot right after shooting the .38 Special HST.

We'll need to wait for the empirical testing before making any useful judgements.

[LOBO]

POA vs. POI?

[UpDok]

POA vs. POI?

I my S&W 642 offhand at 25', the Federal P38HST1S (130gr HST) shot about 3 1/2" above point of aim. The Speer 23921 (135gr GD SB) is about dead on. The Winchester white box Q4171 (130 gr FMJ) shot about 2" high.

I'm an older guy and I broke my wrist a few months ago so I'm still a bit recoil sensitive. The Federal HST .38 special seems like it could be a winner for folks who don't enjoy the snappy recoil of the Speer 135gr GD SB load. When I shot them the .38 SP HST load seemed a bit lighter recoil than the Speer GD load, but the HST was definitely hotter than the Winchester White Box 130gr stuff.

Hopefully Federal didn't just put their HST label on a glorified inverted wadcutter load, and hopefully it performs well in actual testing. For now and until I know better I'll probably continue to carry the Gold Dots in my 642.

[LOBO]

I my S&W 642 offhand at 25', the Federal P38HST1S (130gr HST) shot about 3 1/2" above point of aim. The Speer 23921 (135gr GD SB) is about dead on. The Winchester white box Q4171 (130 gr FMJ) shot about 2" high.

I'm an older guy and I broke my wrist a few months ago so I'm still a bit recoil sensitive. The Federal HST .38 special seems like it could be a winner for folks who don't enjoy the snappy recoil of the Speer 135gr GD SB load. When I shot them the .38 SP HST load seemed a bit lighter recoil than the Speer GD load, but the HST was definitely hotter than the Winchester White Box 130gr stuff.

Hopefully Federal didn't just put their HST label on a glorified inverted wadcutter load, and hopefully it performs well in actual testing. For now and until I know better I'll probably continue to carry the Gold Dots in my 642.

Thank you for the information, I really appreciate it.

[LtDave]

Finally made it to the range to test the HST. I brought 3 guns with me, a '60's vintage S&W Model 37 converted to DAO, a S&W 342Ti 2" and a S&W 640 Pro. As a control load, I fired Winchester 130 grain +P Bonded JHP. Both the HST and Ranger was unpleasant to shoot in the 342Ti which was not a surprise. Anything hotter than a 148 wadcutter hurts. Not bad out of the Model 37 and both were very pleasant in the all steel 640 Pro. Groups were fired double action off the bench at 15 yards. In all 3 guns, the HST shot to the right. 3.5" in the 640 Pro, 3" in the M37 and 4.25" right in the 342Ti. My 640 Pro shoots low with everything and the HST was no exception, hitting about 4.25" low. The M37 and 342Ti were pretty well on for elevation. My M37's front sight has been shortened and is 1/10" wide. The Winchester Ranger Bonded JHPs shot well in the 342Ti, with a 2" group about 1.5" low and 1" right. In the 640 Pro they went into 3.25", but shot 5" low. In my M37 the Winchester went into 3.25" but 4.25" low and 1" right. Just realized I forgot to take the chronograph, so I'll have to do that another time.

[xcop]

LTDave.......assuming you use a 6 oclock hold what hits closest to POA in your 640?

[LtDave]

LTDave.......assuming you use a 6 oclock hold what hits closest to POA in your 640?

I hold center. If I held 6 o'clock with this thing nothing would be on the paper. Most everything hits between 2.5" and 4.5" low. There is a lot of left/right variance as well with many of the loads. Factory load that hits closest to POA is an RWS 158 FMJFP, which shoots about 1.5" low and 1" right. Best load in the gun (closest to the sights) so far is a low end .357 handload with a 180 Sierra FMJFP and 4.4 grains of 700x. Hits 1" below POA with a 2.25" group. Speer .357 short barrel GD load hits 3.25" low and 3" right. Surprisingly, the Speer is not bad in recoil/blast. The 700x load is very nice as well. There is a little bit of metal on the front sight above the white ring around the tritium, so I will probably get a file out and see if I can get it closer to POA/POI without ruining the front sight. I really wish someone would make a higher replacement rear sight for this gun.

[xcop]

I shoot all my handguns straight on. Sorry to see what these newer Smiths have ended up doing. That is a very large POA/POI difference. Good luck!
D&L makes rear sights you can add on............http://www.dlsports.com/dl_jframe_sw_sights.html