AIWB Holsters: Sidecar style vs. separate

[LesPaul]

I'm in search of my first AIWB rig and trying to decide which route to go... I see a ton of love on reddit & instagram for the sidecar style holsters (there's tons of people making them now) with the combined gun + mag caddy setup.. Here on PF where IMO people tend to be much more experienced and practical instead of web warriors and instagram famous, i see them not so well liked. At least the trex ones aren't.. I've learned a lot from this place, so i tend to trust what comes from this community more than any other.

I'm curious, what about the other makers besides trex putting out the sidecar style? Does this combined style have merit, or is the separate gun + mag caddy just better in every way except convenience?

In the separate holster/mag route.. it looks like the RCS Eidolon and the JMCK are my front runners. JMCK seems to have unparalleled customer service so that's a big plus. RCS has no questions asked 30 day return policy and a lifetime unconditional warranty which is a big plus for them, especially since this will be my first foray into AIWB.

In the combined holster/mag route, trex seems the most popular, but they aren't on my list as they don't see like they are made with concealment in mind.. Other makers of note i have on my list who seem solid.. Redline Concealment, T5CustomKydex, Flashpoint Solutions, LastLineofDefense and GNGTactical... most of these seem like good options in the 'sidecar' category, but they are essentially "boutique" holster makers or new holster makers, so warranty "test of time" is questionable.

I'm also noticing a trend... i have yet to see adoption of the sidecar style by who would be considered "top in the field" of professionals (LE & Mil) and instructors. Is that because this style is still new and not well-vetted or because it's just sub par for serious carry when not making instagram videos?

Thanks PF!

[Dark Star Gear]

They're all newer makers copying the G-Code Incog with the mag attached. It initially started as some sorta convenience thing and took off because #marketing (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=marketing) #resurrectingshittytechniques (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=resurrectingshittytechniques) and all that.

One point to consider... Any good AIWB holster and any good pouch can occupy the exact same space as any of the Instagram specials.


Also to consider... The claws that folks attach leverage the grip one way and the mag pouch portion of the shell leverages the grip the other way, unless of course the shell is bent just right for your body. Durability wise there seems to be a lot more fatigue related failures that pop up on Facebook and other groups. This, I believe, is directly related to the claw and pouch working against each other paired with body movement. The belt line is dynamic in that the shape might be an ellipse when standing still but as you walk, bend, lean, etc that shape is contorting all over and taking the belt and holster for a ride with it. This is why years ago when kydex was the only choice for OWB belt loops we saw so much cracking. Kydex and boltaron have a rolled in texture, or grain, that has valleys that also serve to make cracks easier to form. Lots of people ignore or don't know/care and just keep on keeping on.

[ssb]

For what it's worth, the one time I tried the Sidecar it looked like I was a college kid stealing plates from a restaurant.

If you've got a slender build I'd recommend an Eidolon (with the soft loops) and either a JMCK or Mastermind Tactics AIWB mag pouch, or a jMCK Wing Claw or Dark Star Orion (? Seraph?) as kydex alternatives.

If you're bulkier, a regular JMCK AIWB would be a good choice.

[vcdgrips]

By analogy, You are asking about the relative advantages of a dual mag pouch or two singles. Two singles, almost always works as well or better than the double, allow for the same amount of reloads and are much more versatile relative to waistline placement and overall "real estate" occupied.

I would humbly assert that there is more collective AIWB knowledge on this forum v any other on the net. I say this as someone who has AIWB'ed a G35/ 34 90+% of the time since the summer of 09 and was speaking with TLG (RIP) literally as this was site was going live in Feb of 2011. As such, the collective here has a decided preference for the separate holster/mag route. Choose wisely and free your mind of this hardware issue to solve the much more demanding software issues that come with the daily carry of a firearm.

[blues]

LesPaul, I will try to add to the wisdom in the posts above by simply providing some of my own experience. Take it for what it's worth.

What led me to this forum was a search for new holsters to replace my (still worthy) holsters dating back to the middle to late 90's.

Despite a career in LE I am not a gun forum whore and while I would occasionally peruse a thread or two online when there was a topic of interest under discussion, I never felt inclined to register or join.

When I read the intelligent and helpful discussions on this site regarding the work of previously mentioned craftsmen like Tom of Dark Star Gear, Tony of JMCK and others, I found that not only did I come across the answers I sought but I also found a community that I wanted to be a part of. Having been a super mod on another enthusiast site since the late 90's, I'm more than well aware of what makes one venue stand out from the rest.

The only thing I can fault is their willingness to take me on but everyone makes mistakes, even supremely confident and intelligent guys like Tom Jones. ;)

All of this is preamble to this: The makers who are popular on this site are popular for a reason. Their designs have withstood hard use and the test of time from accomplished folks of many backgrounds. Sure, some have gravitated toward favorites here and there but there's not a one of those favorites among the regulars here that I wouldn't consider a tried, true and worthy design.

The membership may not always agree on every particular but the collective wisdom will steer you down the right path. When these folks tell you to take note of one design or steer you away from another, take note.

By the way, I started carrying AIWB in 1988 with a ballistic nylon IWB holster from Assault Systems. The gear has only gotten better over the past few decades and the advice received here is what helped me to find the right makers for my gear and needs.

DSG and JMCK get my vote based upon my personal experience with them. Others are equally worthy but I haven't had the opportunity to test them myself.

[LesPaul]

They're all newer makers copying the G-Code Incog with the mag attached. It initially started as some sorta convenience thing and took off because #marketing (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=marketing) #resurrectingshittytechniques (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=resurrectingshittytechniques) and all that.

One point to consider... Any good AIWB holster and any good pouch can occupy the exact same space as any of the Instagram specials.


Also to consider... The claws that folks attach leverage the grip one way and the mag pouch portion of the shell leverages the grip the other way, unless of course the shell is bent just right for your body. Durability wise there seems to be a lot more fatigue related failures that pop up on Facebook and other groups. This, I believe, is directly related to the claw and pouch working against each other paired with body movement. The belt line is dynamic in that the shape might be an ellipse when standing still but as you walk, bend, lean, etc that shape is contorting all over and taking the belt and holster for a ride with it. This is why years ago when kydex was the only choice for OWB belt loops we saw so much cracking. Kydex and boltaron have a rolled in texture, or grain, that has valleys that also serve to make cracks easier to form. Lots of people ignore or don't know/care and just keep on keeping on.

Excellent points man. I hadn't considered that aspect, but it makes complete and perfect sense. I've even seen some companies are starting to connect the 2 with a piece of leather, at which point i thought to myself (why not just have them separate?). Your points drive this home even further. It seems like these various bends and connections are trying to solve a self-created problem lol. Thanks for your feedback! I need to check out the DSG stuff too.


For what it's worth, the one time I tried the Sidecar it looked like I was a college kid stealing plates from a restaurant.

If you've got a slender build I'd recommend an Eidolon (with the soft loops) and either a JMCK or Mastermind Tactics AIWB mag pouch, or a jMCK Wing Claw or Dark Star Orion (? Seraph?) as kydex alternatives.

If you're bulkier, a regular JMCK AIWB would be a good choice.

I wouldn't call myself slender. I'm 6'2 and about 245 lbs right now. I used to be more top heavy from powerlifting, but 2 kids and 3 years later a lot of that has migrated to a tactical muffin top. Not a giant protruding gut or anything, but definitely soft around the midsection. I've noticed that JM is really good about answering questions and recommending the right holster for people. I'll probably be reaching out soon to see what he recommends. Thanks for the input!


By analogy, You are asking about the relative advantages of a dual mag pouch or two singles. Two singles, almost always works as well or better than the double, allow for the same amount of reloads and are much more versatile relative to waistline placement and overall "real estate" occupied.

I would humbly assert that there is more collective AIWB knowledge on this forum v any other on the net. I say this as someone who has AIWB'ed a G35/ 34 90+% of the time since the summer of 09 and was speaking with TLG (RIP) literally as this was site was going live in Feb of 2011. As such, the collective here has a decided preference for the separate holster/mag route. Choose wisely and free your mind of this hardware issue to solve the much more demanding software issues that come with the daily carry of a firearm.

Good analogy! I agree about the collective knowledge on this site. It has helped me tremendously in my learning (and unlearning of some widely taught bad practices). Thank you for your input!

[LesPaul]

LesPaul, I will try to add to the wisdom in the posts above by simply providing some of my own experience. Take it for what it's worth.

What led me to this forum was a search for new holsters to replace my (still worthy) holsters dating back to the middle to late 90's.

Despite a career in LE I am not a gun forum whore and while I would occasionally peruse a thread or two online when there was a topic of interest under discussion, I never felt inclined to register or join.

When I read the intelligent and helpful discussions on this site regarding the work of previously mentioned craftsmen like Tom of Dark Star Gear, Tony of JMCK and others, I found that not only did I come across the answers I sought but I also found a community that I wanted to be a part of. Having been a super mod on another enthusiast site since the late 90's, I'm more than well aware of what makes one venue stand out from the rest.

The only thing I can fault is their willingness to take me on but everyone makes mistakes, even supremely confident and intelligent guys like Tom Jones. ;)

All of this is preamble to this: The makers who are popular on this site are popular for a reason. Their designs have withstood hard use and the test of time from accomplished folks of many backgrounds. Sure, some have gravitated toward favorites here and there but there's not a one of those favorites among the regulars here that I wouldn't consider a tried, true and worthy design.

The membership may not always agree on every particular but the collective wisdom will steer you down the right path. When these folks tell you to take note of one design or steer you away from another, take note.

By the way, I started carrying AIWB in 1988 with a ballistic nylon IWB holster from Assault Systems. The gear has only gotten better over the past few decades and the advice received here is what helped me to find the right makers for my gear and needs.

DSG and JMCK get my vote based upon my personal experience with them. Others are equally worthy but I haven't had the opportunity to test them myself.


Thanks for the input! I fully agree with you about this community. I've been lurking for several months, and in fact was telling me wife about this place the other night.. about how this place seems to be "free of all the crap" when it comes to trying to figure out what's fudd, what's web warrior babble, what's marketing bs, etc... In other sites it seems to be a lot of hive mind regurgitation of what the previous generation of web warriors said... little based on real world experience. It surprises me to find this quality of a community on a free and open site.. usually this kind of quality is hidden behind a closed registration/paywall to keep the riff raff out. I must say, i really appreciate what ToddG started. I'm just sad i didn't find this place until after his unfortunate passing.

[Xhado]

I've yet to find a tuck-able AIWB magazine pouch that holds the magazine in the correct position all day and doesn't dig into my stomach too much.

For all in one designs, I've found that the T1C AGIS with its leather connection design gives us the best of both worlds.


https://youtu.be/z93YIGpRnkU

[PNWTO]

I really believe the sidecar style/design and the rise of Social Media Shooters coincided at the right time. IME they aren't comfortable and print more than I would like. One also has to realize that most people don't carry during the work week and definitely don't around the house, so the enthusiasm of purchasers on social media and Reddit isn't that realistic.

[Tamara]

Nylon OWB holster with integral mag pouch: "OMG n00b! Retard stuff only cheap-ass holsters for n00bs have that!"

Kydex IWB holster with integral mag pouch: "New Instagram hotness! Did you see dude's sick draw times on that rubber dummy?"

[Dark Star Gear]

Excellent points man. I hadn't considered that aspect, but it makes complete and perfect sense. I've even seen some companies are starting to connect the 2 with a piece of leather, at which point i thought to myself (why not just have them separate?). Your points drive this home even further. It seems like these various bends and connections are trying to solve a self-created problem lol. Thanks for your feedback! I need to check out the DSG stuff too.

I honestly believe it's just sales. Given the breakdown of how those holsters are made compared to individual units are made there are 2-3 fewer edges to worry about, one heat cycle rather than two, one trim cycle rather than two, one assembly rather than two, etc. It's a smart way to reduce work and still sell the same. That makes it really easy to wanna sell them.


I really believe the sidecar style/design and the rise of Social Media Shooters coincided at the right time. IME they aren't comfortable and print more than I would like. One also has to realize that most people don't carry during the work week and definitely don't around the house, so the enthusiasm of purchasers on social media and Reddit isn't that realistic.

Yup. #haterswillsayitsfake (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=haterswillsayitsfake)

[Rex G]

I have a t.rex Sidecar rig, to fit the 9/40 Glocks, to accomodate a mounted Surefire X300U WML, and find it to be a nice situational rig, but not a good daily carry rig. Comfort seems quite good, but really true conceal-ability, on my mostly-slim frame, requires something like a hoodie/vest/light jacket with hand-warmer pockets, so the bulges look like something is being carried in the pockets. This is quite good for extended road trips, in air-conditioned motor vehicles, and when lounging-around in private quarters, but not so good when on foot, in public, during summers in the South. (I may yet discover a perfect summer concealment garment.)

With my particular body type, a JM Custom Kydex George, with the Extra-Tuck feature, seems the ideal solution, and I have tried quite a few. The George, and only the George, can make a G19-sized blocky bricky Glocky disappear from sight, AIWB, for me. (The outer rear corner of a Glock slide is my conceal-ability nemesis.) Notably, the JMCK George is built for folks with specific body types; what works for me is not the same as what works for others. A personalized consultation with the maker is a good idea.

FWIW, when out and about, I have a weapon at 0300, the same place where I carry my duty pistol while in uniform, to ensure a reflexive no-mind draw. AIWB is supplemental-weapon carry for me, which does not mean I am necessarily carrying the smaller weapon at AIWB.

[LittleLebowski]

Nylon OWB holster with integral mag pouch: "OMG n00b! Retard stuff only cheap-ass holsters for n00bs have that!"

Kydex IWB holster with integral mag pouch: "New Instagram hotness! Did you see dude's sick draw times on that rubber dummy?"

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24373-The-T-Rex-Arms-3yard-concealment-challenge

[Tony Mayer]

I'm in search of my first AIWB rig and trying to decide which route to go... I see a ton of love on reddit & instagram for the sidecar style holsters (there's tons of people making them now) with the combined gun + mag caddy setup.. Here on PF where IMO people tend to be much more experienced and practical instead of web warriors and instagram famous, i see them not so well liked. At least the trex ones aren't.. I've learned a lot from this place, so i tend to trust what comes from this community more than any other.

I'm curious, what about the other makers besides trex putting out the sidecar style? Does this combined style have merit, or is the separate gun + mag caddy just better in every way except convenience?

In the separate holster/mag route.. it looks like the RCS Eidolon and the JMCK are my front runners. JMCK seems to have unparalleled customer service so that's a big plus. RCS has no questions asked 30 day return policy and a lifetime unconditional warranty which is a big plus for them, especially since this will be my first foray into AIWB.

In the combined holster/mag route, trex seems the most popular, but they aren't on my list as they don't see like they are made with concealment in mind.. Other makers of note i have on my list who seem solid.. Redline Concealment, T5CustomKydex, Flashpoint Solutions, LastLineofDefense and GNGTactical... most of these seem like good options in the 'sidecar' category, but they are essentially "boutique" holster makers or new holster makers, so warranty "test of time" is questionable.

I'm also noticing a trend... i have yet to see adoption of the sidecar style by who would be considered "top in the field" of professionals (LE & Mil) and instructors. Is that because this style is still new and not well-vetted or because it's just sub par for serious carry when not making instagram videos?

Thanks PF!

Les, if you have any specific questions for me, you can also email me (sales@jmcustomkydex.com). My .02 on the sidecar style, unless it's bent to you personally, it's a crap shoot whether it's comfortable or not. Even if it is bent to you, it still has much less "give" than a holster with separate mag pouch that moves with you throughout the day. Concealment seems to be compromised by a higher ride height for most of them, which kind of defeats the whole purpose of carrying. And how does a man stand at the urinal and do his business? These are my opinions and they are worth exactly what you paid for them :0)

Also regarding my companies policy, we have a 2 week trial period for you to swap or return it, just want some info on why you are returning it to better our products. We also have a lifetime guarantee as well.

[Hot Sauce]

And how does a man stand at the urinal and do his business?He doesn't, because he only keeps his holster on long enough to make another social media post from the range.

[Norville]

. And how does a man stand at the urinal and do his business? These are my opinions and they are worth exactly what you paid for them :0)


I found the Sidecar pretty comfortable and actually concealed well for my build after dropping the ride height. This of course made it impossible to use the restroom without removing the holster or much dancing and shaking. The separate holster and pouch solved this problem.

[Gray222]

Did several reviews of gcodes incog and their eclipse.

http://www.vdmsr.com/p/gear-reviews.html

With that we have a few holster makers here who are not only vetted but are supporting businesses.

I would highly recommend to get a holster that isn't based on a celebs status and actually based on real world application.

[LesPaul]

Did several reviews of gcodes incog and their eclipse.

http://www.vdmsr.com/p/gear-reviews.html

With that we have a few holster makers here who are not only vetted but are supporting businesses.

I would highly recommend to get a holster that isn't based on a celebs status and actually based on real world application.


Totally concur. I'm in love with the offerings from JMCK, DSG, and MMT. I am actually formulating a post in my head to make soon asking about the various differences between those offerings. I know quite a bit about the JMCK offerings as there is a lot of info about them on these forums and Tony has been very helpful in private answering my various questions about his different models. I'd like to get the same kind of info about DSG's and MMT's. DSG's seem very well made, slick looking and well thought out, but i don't know anything about the design decisions, features, etc (other than the obvious ones like wing/claw = grip tuck).

[blues]

Les,

Which of the foregoing holsters will be best for your body type and your use is going to be a very personal decision. (Hence the truism about boxes full of holsters.) I haven't yet tried out one from MMT though I put great store in some of the excellent comments I've read from folks like Little Lebowski and others.

I do have AIWB holsters from both JMCK and DSG and I'd be loathe to pick between them as they each feature outstanding build quality and excel at their intended task. That said, you may find that you like one or the other better for a given application or firearm. I tend to carry my Glock 26 in a JMCK "George" and my G19 in the DSG "Orion". Flip a coin. You won't know which is best until you can make a comparison on your body side by side.

[Dark Star Gear]

DSG's seem very well made, slick looking and well thought out, but i don't know anything about the design decisions, features, etc (other than the obvious ones like wing/claw = grip tuck).


I hate to say lots of nuances but lots of little nuances that most makers aren't even aware of or don't care about. Our biggest concern is long term durability and longevity from someone who actually trains with their gear. Shoot us an email or call, 5 minutes will probably cover an hour or two of trying to word a post right.

[Gray222]

I hate to say lots of nuances but lots of little nuances that most makers aren't even aware of or don't care about. Our biggest concern is long term durability and longevity from someone who actually trains with their gear. Shoot us an email or call, 5 minutes will probably cover an hour or two of trying to word a post right.

http://i.imgur.com/f7FdEdG.jpg

Simply put, most people who want to buy a kydex holster don't know what they don't know. There are so many differences in material, grain, and overall longevity that people simply do not understand enough when they make a decision to buy a holster.

[LesPaul]

Simply put, most people who want to buy a kydex holster don't know what they don't know. There are so many differences in material, grain, and overall longevity that people simply do not understand enough when they make a decision to buy a holster.

I won't deny that! I admit I don't know what i'm talking about or what i want. I mean i know what i think i want, but as you said, i don't know what i don't know. This community has been great in giving me some insight, at least getting me pointed in what i feel is the right direction now. I mean damn, a week ago I thought i wanted a super rigid belt and a sidecar style holster and was even willing to pay more for it lol.

[LesPaul]

I hate to say lots of nuances but lots of little nuances that most makers aren't even aware of or don't care about. Our biggest concern is long term durability and longevity from someone who actually trains with their gear. Shoot us an email or call, 5 minutes will probably cover an hour or two of trying to word a post right.

Makes sense. I'll be taking you up on that. Should I wait until Monday to call? Your site says you prefer email and doesn't list a phone # so just let me know. Thanks!

[Dark Star Gear]

Now is fine, PM sent.

[Adam]

There is a lot of full derp AIWB shit out there now. Let's break the integral mag pouch thing down in to a pros and cons list.

Pros: Only have to put one item on instead of the agony of putting on a holster, then the mag pouch.

Cons: Literally everything else.

It is cool that guys make neat stuff, I like neat stuff. I think Phlster made a dual AIWB Glock holster. "That's cool!" Then I went back to doing what I was doing. No place in comfort, concealability, ability to easily decide "I don't want to carry a spare mag today" (gasp!) etc. If you don't carry a gun very much or wear a mumu when you do, it's a great option. And definitely looks cool in IG pics. Maybe in red carbon fiber even.

I put this stuff out there in the same realm as the guys insisting the Incog is still one of the best AIWB holsters made. It is, until you try almost anything else.

[Xhado]

What mag pouches are you guys using that puts the mag is a similar position as the sidecar that's stable and tuck-able?

[Tamara]

#trexarmsconcealmentbruh (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=trexarmsconcealmentbruh) #brostandard (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=brostandard)

15799

Jesus, it's like a built in tray so you have a place to set your Monster and your can of Cope.

[blues]

Please return your tray tables to their upright position...

[JohnO]

Depending on what I'm doing, how I am dressed and where I'm going I occasionally take advantage of something I usually have, pockets.

[vcdgrips]

The set up on that rather solid man is printing like Gutenberg's Press.

No, thank you.

[JCS]

#trexarmsconcealmentbruh (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=trexarmsconcealmentbruh) #brostandard (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=brostandard)

15799

Jesus, it's like a built in tray so you have a place to set your Monster and your can of Cope.

#subseconddraw (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=subseconddraw) #highlymoddedglocks (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=highlymoddedglocks)

That guy needs a gadget. He muzzles himself every time he holsters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Guinnessman]

A fanny pack under a shirt prints less..........:p

[Olim9]

Did several reviews of gcodes incog and their eclipse.

http://www.vdmsr.com/p/gear-reviews.html

With that we have a few holster makers here who are not only vetted but are supporting businesses.

I would highly recommend to get a holster that isn't based on a celebs status and actually based on real world application.

I admit, my first carry gun+holster was a Shield in a standard Incog AIWB. I remember thinking "wtf" before I clicked on your article on the Incog that pretty much explained why it sucked. Then I started carrying a Glock 19 in a JM Custom George.

Guess which one printed less?

[Gray222]

I admit, my first carry gun+holster was a Shield in a standard Incog AIWB. I remember thinking "wtf" before I clicked on your article on the Incog that pretty much explained why it sucked. Then I started carrying a Glock 19 in a JM Custom George.

Guess which one printed less?

All gcodes print like crazy.

JM is pretty good in this regard the holsters are made with an understanding of proper carry methodology.

Add a wedge and you have a very good system of carry.

The real issue with gcode holsters is that they aren't made by CCW shooters for CCW shooters. Ten minutes with one of their designed holsters and you quickly realize this.

Unfortunately this goes back to my post in another thread, the majority of CCW citizens have zero clue what a good holster is and stick to what is popular, what is comfortable and what is cheap. Those traits almost never create a worthwhile holster

[GabeNew]

I'll 'fess up; I wear one. The pro's for me are comfort, concealment, and convenience. Obviously, it's molded to fit me. I find that this style either works very well for you, or not at all. Of course, most of us are prone to emotional attachment to our gear, which explains why the rest of us can tell at a glance that it's not working for those who defend it so vociferously.

The criticisms of the style are generally valid, for sure. Cracking? Check. I don't do them in light bearing, for that reason.

I'll confess though, I don't carry 24/7. I throw it on whenever I leave the house, which isn't that often, and usually not for long periods of time. Back pain prohibits carrying on my belt for any length of time, no matter the position.

[OnionsAndDragons]

What mag pouches are you guys using that puts the mag is a similar position as the sidecar that's stable and tuck-able?

Tuckable can be achieved with many single pouches by adding a strut for the soft loop. These can be bought through many of your friendly holster makers or DIYHolster.

Some designs lend well to the strut add, some do not. I like the clean design of what Mastermind Tactics is putting out re mag pouch.

If tuckable/deep concealed is important I would consider looking at the NeoMag carrier for your pocket or an RCS pocketshield. I really like the pocketshield for a mag and light when tucking in is appropriate.

More options. That's the reason I hate the sidecar type rigs. And they just seem silly to me.


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