Convince me not to get a Shield in 45

[pastaslinger]

S&W is running rebates on the Shield series presumably because the 2.0 Shield guns will be coming out. My dilemma is whether to try and buy one of the 45 Shields now or put that money towards a Glock 43 or PPS M2 later.

Is it still a highly concealable gun like the 43? As far as shooting it, I haven't tried the Shield in 45 but have tried the Glock 36 and thought it was both easy and fun to use.

[jeep45238]

Sure - ammo costs more then 9x19. Long term expenses are more than a 9x19.


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[DallasBronco]

I don't have a Shield in .45, but my 9mm Shield is bigger than my G43. I can also recommend the XDS45. I have the 3.3-in and 4-in versions and really like them for a compact, single stack .45. I think Springfield also has some rebates going on presently. Good luck with your choice.

[Peally]

Because 45 in a tiny gun makes zero sense. Buying ammo would make more sense but that's just me.

[Greg]

1) Why do you care what we think?

2) Has listening to the voices inside your head ever gotten you into trouble?

[orionz06]

Convince me not to get a Shield in 45

No!

[cclaxton]

Ernest Langdon, when asked about 9mm versus 45cal: "I want to be the last guy to run out of ammo."
9mm rules!
Cody

[psalms144.1]

I LUBS ME some fo-tay-fahv, but, putting those rounds in a tiny, lightweight just above pocket gun size package seems to make little sense to me. Recoil, I predict, will be "sporting" to say the least. For a "carry a lot, shoot a little" pistol, it might make some sense, but I doubt it'll get much range time...

[Peally]

1) Why do you care what we think?

Validation, same as every time these threads pop up

[pastaslinger]

I LUBS ME some fo-tay-fahv, but, putting those rounds in a tiny, lightweight just above pocket gun size package seems to make little sense to me. Recoil, I predict, will be "sporting" to say the least. For a "carry a lot, shoot a little" pistol, it might make some sense, but I doubt it'll get much range time...

Recoil in the G36 at least was not bad at all


Ernest Langdon, when asked about 9mm versus 45cal: "I want to be the last guy to run out of ammo."
9mm rules!
Cody

Capacity is still 6+1 and 7+1 so on par with the 9's just in a bigger package. The one thing I did not mention is that the 43 is this awkward 2 and 1/3 finger length grip which I like less than either a 2 finger or 3 finger grip. The 45 Shield with shortest mag gives me a decent 3 finger grip, my main concern with it is real world concealability.

[deputyG23]

I borrowed one from a co-worker a few weeks back and actually enjoyed shooting it. The aggressive grip texture compared to the 9/40 Shields worked very well for me to keep the gun from squirming excessively. Recoil is pretty healthy but not obnoxious. Velocity with Speer Lawman ball ammo averaged 698 fps. If it had another inch of barrel length and I worked for a .45 issuing employer, I would buy one.

[EVP]

Convince....really?

15381

[mmc45414]

Capacity is still 6+1 and 7+1 so on par with the 9's / The 45 Shield with shortest mag gives me a decent 3 finger grip
These are the reasons I got mine. When I look at them at the NRA launch, I initially thought "yeah, whatever", then I realized it was just a little bit bigger in both directions and I could get the third finger on it without the little shelf I had on my (then) 40. I sold the 40 to a buddy (that only has 40s) and bought a 9 and laid back until the street price on the 45 got down close to the 9/40. My theory was that the 9 would be a little lighter and might better work on garments without a belt. Since then I wish I had just held off and skipped the 9, but now I have two pieces of JMCK gear for it and the used street price is so low I might as well keep it around.


I borrowed one from a co-worker a few weeks back and actually enjoyed shooting it. Recoil is pretty healthy but not obnoxious. Velocity with Speer Lawman ball ammo averaged 698 fps. If it had another inch of barrel length and I worked for a .45 issuing employer, I would buy one.
I rolled the dice getting one and figured it might be a wild ride, but everybody that shoots it is pleasantly surprised and so far at least two people in the group have followed my tracks. I also agree that I wish it were 4", like the XD-S and EMP. I think they would have a sweet deal if they made a single stack version of the 9 and 45 with 4" barrels and grip frames the size of the extended magazines. The velocity concerns me but 9x19 is not gonna be blazing out of a short barrel either, it is only 0.12" shorter than a G26.

Everybody that has shot mine liked it.

[LockedBreech]

Aside from recoil and ammo costs, which alone should make 9mm the clear choice for a tiny gun, how many subcompact .45s have a good track record for reliability? It is not a round that does especially well in a small platform.

I love .45 in a 1911 or 220 - it's a big round that is great fun, but not in a subcompact.

[pastaslinger]

Convince....really?

15381

I am trying to see how concealable people find it in real life. I can read the dimensions and check things out in store or even at the range all I want but it is pretty difficult to gauge day to day concealability of this versus the single stack 9's I mentioned which is why I am asking.

[Hot Sauce]

15381QFT. If there is no reason that you can articulate for preferring a .45 over a 9mm yourself, the forum will probably not be able to articulate it for you.

[Lost River]

1) Why do you care what we think?

2) Has listening to the voices inside your head ever gotten you into trouble?


Those damned voices have got me in trouble!


When a person (usually someone in my chain of command, who rose through the ranks due to nepotism or to get them out of the field, and definitely not due to competence) says

"Tell me what you think".

One voice says "Be honest and tell them".

The second voice says " Don't do it".

That first voice/guy is an ass, and and just loves the shit-show when I give an honest assessment.

[Redhat]

I think you have to determine why you'd want a .45 vs 9mm in this particular pistol.

[Peally]

I am trying to see how concealable people find it in real life. I can read the dimensions and check things out in store or even at the range all I want but it is pretty difficult to gauge day to day concealability of this versus the single stack 9's I mentioned which is why I am asking.

No one is going to be able to answer that for you, everyone is completely different.

[Kyle Reese]

S&W is running rebates on the Shield series presumably because the 2.0 Shield guns will be coming out. My dilemma is whether to try and buy one of the 45 Shields now or put that money towards a Glock 43 or PPS M2 later.

Is it still a highly concealable gun like the 43? As far as shooting it, I haven't tried the Shield in 45 but have tried the Glock 36 and thought it was both easy and fun to use.

Life is short. Buy it, enjoy it, and if it doesn't work out for you, sell it and move on.

[JAD]

I am trying to see how concealable people find it in real life. I can read the dimensions and check things out in store or even at the range all I want but it is pretty difficult to gauge day to day concealability of this versus the single stack 9's I mentioned which is why I am asking.

The G43 -- which I own -- is too big for a NPE gun and not capable enough for a daily driver. The shield, especially in .45, is worse and no better respectively.

If you need an NPE gun I'd look for a more compact 9 like the PM9 or a J frame. If you're talking about this as a daily driver, most of us have found that we can accommodate a service pistol.

[cclaxton]

I know a lot of people who really love their 9mm Shield. I know of no one who shoots a 45 Shield.
I know few people who actually carry a 45cal gun. I can think of three: One carries a Kahr 45, one carries a XDS 45 and another carries a Dan Wesson ECO. And, being the Area Coordinator for IDPA, I know hundreds of people who carry. The vast majority carry 9mm, with maybe 15% carrying 40cal (and that is going down), and 45cal is really small. 380ACP is growing, maybe 10%. Then there's about 10% that carry a revolver. A handful of 357Sig(Federal guys).

As Vickers recently wrote: The caliber wars are over and 9mm won.
Cody

[JAD]

CC, it's not my fault you hang out with a bunch of pussies.

[Peally]

I'm a pussy, I'm not going back to 45 unless I need a hiking gun. No reason to.

[JAD]

I was just funnin'. I carry .45s sometimes because I have good guns that I shoot well that happen to be chambered in it. .45 is also much nicer to reload than 9, as a minor thing.

[RJ]

Life is short. Buy it, enjoy it, and if it doesn't work out for you, sell it and move on.

This.

It's a new gun! Hell, I'd like to have a new gun. And a .45 ACP? All you have to do is waive it in the air and de thugs will get the vapors. :cool:

Kidding. :)

But not kidding.

I say, why not. If you have the money, go for it. It may work out that you carry it effectively and if that works 'for you', more power to you. Without question a .45 is an effective SD weapon. Pick a load on Doc's list and rock on!

[orionz06]

Capacity is still 6+1 and 7+1 so on par with the 9's just in a bigger package.

So like a 1911 but potentially it will work?


I am trying to see how concealable people find it in real life. I can read the dimensions and check things out in store or even at the range all I want but it is pretty difficult to gauge day to day concealability of this versus the single stack 9's I mentioned which is why I am asking.

Most here carry a larger pistol.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I've seen one of our SOs shoot a 45 cal Shield in IDPA matches pretty well, for what it is worth. Lots of reloads but he was fast and on target.

[pastaslinger]

QFT. If there is no reason that you can articulate for preferring a .45 over a 9mm yourself, the forum will probably not be able to articulate it for you.


I think you have to determine why you'd want a .45 vs 9mm in this particular pistol.

You do not understand my questions, this isn't a caliber debate thread and I am not that worried about shooting 45 from this size gun in terms of recoil.

I like the Shield in 45 for the features, not the caliber. With the rebate it is almost half the price of a G43. The concern I have is it pushes the size envelope for this class of gun so does it even become worth it versus a double stack compact or subcompact.


The G43 -- which I own -- is too big for a NPE gun and not capable enough for a daily driver. The shield, especially in .45, is worse and no better respectively.

If you need an NPE gun I'd look for a more compact 9 like the PM9 or a J frame. If you're talking about this as a daily driver, most of us have found that we can accommodate a service pistol.

Thanks for the perspective, you addressed my questions

[Glenn E. Meyer]

BTW, the SO mentioned usually shoots revolver, so the limited capacity doesn't bother him. Perhaps he doesn't realize that there are higher capacities available. Afterall, he smokes a pipe which is very retro.

About capacity - I like the suggestion that you don't want to be the first gun to run out of ammo. Who said that? Or Tom Givens' analysis of the time in a fight and how you have much less time with a significantly lower capacity. Yes, I can reload very quickly while everyone else is shooting.

But the small guns are dress and convenience compromises, they work for the modal less intense incident. What else is new?

[MattyD380]

Caliber differences aside...

I liked the way the 45 Shield shot and handled better than the 9 Shield (and 40). For me, the 45 shot more accurately and really didn't feel a lot harder to control. I don't shoot striker fired guns that often (or that well) and I found the 45 Shield one of the few striker guns I could pick up and shoot decent groups. But that's just me...

[cclaxton]

About capacity - I like the suggestion that you don't want to be the first gun to run out of ammo. Who said that?
Ernest Landon> I was running a IDPA Match at Peacemaker and he showed up to shoot the match. While waiting to shoot, a group was talking about 9mm versus 45. That is when Ernest said it, and I never forgot it. Probably not the first time he said it though. At the Todd Green Rage Against The Cure event, I got to tell him I have used that line countless times, always giving him credit.
Cody

[Flintsky]

Ernest Landon> I was running a IDPA Match at Peacemaker and he showed up to shoot the match. While waiting to shoot, a group was talking about 9mm versus 45. That is when Ernest said it, and I never forgot it. Probably not the first time he said it though. At the Todd Green Rage Against The Cure event, I got to tell him I have used that line countless times, always giving him credit.
Cody

A very wise man. Another issue that I often have to show people in an apples to applies comparison(9mm vs .45) is just how much their performance and accuracy reduces with each shot fired in a polymer or aluminum framed .45. In modern day gun fights with well armed perps(Tim Grammins is a good example), most gun fight survivors wish they had a faster shooting platform with more ammo.

So in answer to the original poster, if you want the gun because you "want" the gun......buy it. If you want the gun because you think it will be a better subcompact choice over a 9mm version.......the overwhelming professional consensus disagrees with that thinking.

[Peally]

Do people regularly run out of ammunition during gunfights? I'm guessing not.

[HopetonBrown]

Do people regularly run out of ammunition during gunfights? I'm guessing not.
Do people regularly get into gunfights? I'm guessing not.

[Peally]

Do people regularly get into gunfights? I'm guessing not.

So what you're saying is you're even less likely to ever need to reload in your life.

[Flintsky]

Do people regularly run out of ammunition during gunfights? I'm guessing not.

Yes, or to the point that they have to change tactics to focus on ammo conservation versus defeating the enemy.

[cclaxton]

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?25137-Guns-Skills-and-Ammo-For-Self-Defense&p=586844#post586844
Lucky Gunner Video About How Much Ammo In Concealed Carry Guns.

[LearnedHat]

Ernest Langdon, when asked about 9mm versus 45cal: "I want to be the last guy to run out of ammo."


Guess that explains his next Langdon Tactical customization project

https://3.imimg.com/data3/SU/EW/MY-6301446/custom-98-500x500.jpg

[cclaxton]

Guess that explains his next Langdon Tactical customization project
ONLY if it's made by Beretta.

[Peally]

Guess that explains his next Langdon Tactical customization project

https://3.imimg.com/data3/SU/EW/MY-6301446/custom-98-500x500.jpg

Tippmann 98? You'd think he'd be a baller and go full Dye M2 or something.

[LearnedHat]

Tippmann 98? You'd think he'd be a baller and go full Dye M2 or something.

Even though it has been out for awhile, you really cannot go by the Tippmann reviews you've read on this site.

[orionz06]

Tippmann 98? You'd think he'd be a baller and go full Dye M2 or something.

Ernest would clearly be a Luxe kinda guy.

[BehindBlueI's]

Do people regularly run out of ammunition during gunfights? I'm guessing not.

Rarely. And when they do, it's often irrelevant to the outcome. Pulling the trigger at someone already running until the gun is dry sort of thing. Or two pharmaceutical representatives who shot the poo out of each other while both seated in the same car. They both had multiple injuries that would have likely been fatal alone, let alone in totality. A few more or less wouldn't matter.

One example had a malfunction AND empty gun in the same fight. The loser had an empty Glock and was DOA in the street with his pants around his ankles. Argument over a lover's triangle. Initial exchange was at near arm's length, AK pistol vs Glock. Both were hit bad and both ran. AK guy got a double feed (or at least that's the condition it was found in) and ran to his car, Glock guy ran down the street, but was tripped by his saggin' pants. He then turned and emptied his gun at the fleeing car. Glock guy bled out in the street prior to EMS arrival. AK guy crashed shortly thereafter and was incapacitated but survived.

[Peally]

There you have it OP. Buy either one and invest in a belt.

[pastaslinger]

I don't need belts

I have no idea how the discussion about round count started when the 45 shield has the same capacity as a PPS M2 or G43

This thread was not supposed to involve talking about "stopping power" or something

People keep saying carry full size or compacts but some of us are tired of dressing around the gun for full concealment.

I may just say to hell with it and wait for the 2.0 9mm Shield to inevitably come out since I don't like the current 9mm Shields due to the grip texture, don't like the G43 that much because of the awkward size, and like the PPS M2 but dislike how it is heavy (weighs as much as a G26...) and fairly large for the capacity.

Maybe it is also worth considering a G26 gen 4 with stippling and a grip reduction on the sides of the frame to cut off a little bit of fat.

[JHC]

Do people regularly run out of ammunition during gunfights? I'm guessing not.

IDK. Hackathorn's studies leads him to believe (per his comments a few years back) that in a gunfight, vs a shooting; a person fires however many rounds his gun holds. :D

[orionz06]

People keep saying carry full size or compacts but some of us are tired of dressing around the gun for full concealment.


I think you'll find that most here don't make too many concessions to have a standard capacity firearm on body.

[Redhat]

I don't need belts

I have no idea how the discussion about round count started when the 45 shield has the same capacity as a PPS M2 or G43

This thread was not supposed to involve talking about "stopping power" or something

People keep saying carry full size or compacts but some of us are tired of dressing around the gun for full concealment.

I may just say to hell with it and wait for the 2.0 9mm Shield to inevitably come out since I don't like the current 9mm Shields due to the grip texture, don't like the G43 that much because of the awkward size, and like the PPS M2 but dislike how it is heavy (weighs as much as a G26...) and fairly large for the capacity.

Maybe it is also worth considering a G26 gen 4 with stippling and a grip reduction on the sides of the frame to cut off a little bit of fat.

The grip texture is an easy fix...stripple job, Talon Grips or maybe a slip on if you like.

[vcdgrips]

Try a little experiment if you can shoot both side by side. 5 Rounds in an 8 inch plate at 5 yrds with a step off line as you draw and shoot.

Extrapolating my data set between a 9mm G34 and a .40 cal G35, shooting the above drill, my times are usually about .25 of a second slower in the .40 cal string v. the 9mm string. I strongly suspect that would hold true shooting a 9mm Shield v a .45 cal Shield.

For me and most the .25+ sec difference in the string is one more well aimed shot down range when using the 9mm. For me, I will take the extra capacity and speed of the 9 v. the .45 in this application.

Having said that, I tend to agree with JAD that the Shield etc. sized gun is too big for an NPE. If I am not in an NPE, I want a bigger gun with more capacity, that I shoot much faster and better anyway.

[john c]

Or two pharmaceutical representatives who shot the poo out of each other while both seated in the same car. They both had multiple injuries that would have likely been fatal alone, let alone in totality. A few more or less wouldn't matter.

I'm interested in hearing more about this shooting, if the details aren't confidential.

[mmc45414]

If you need an NPE gun I'd look for a more compact 9 like the PM9 or a J frame.
I am a 45 Shield fanboi, and I do think it is more compact/comfortable/concealable that a double stack, but I consider it to be middle ground and if you do not have a J-frame yet I would urge you to get one.

[pastaslinger]

Not a J frame or LCR fan
Have considered getting an old snubbie K frame or at least seeing the K6S (haven't seen one in person yet)

[Navyguns]

I've got the Peformance Center Shield 45. I like it quite a bit. I still find the trigger to suck and the sights are decent but the porting is what attracted me. I shot the non-ported version and felt it did handle the recoil well. No, its not a 9mm but for its stature the Shield 45 performs well. The PC version with ports actually makes it an enjoyable gun to shoot. I'll take 6+1 and 7+1 of .45 ACP in a slim pistol that handles well all day. I always say, carry what you want.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm interested in hearing more about this shooting, if the details aren't confidential.

As for how it went down? No clue. They were both already dead and there wasn't any video or witnesses. It's certain they shot each other and certain they were both seated in the car when they did, no shots from outside and all indications were no one else was involved. Items in the car made it readily apparent it was a dope robbery, but no clue who started it. Not my case, I don't take lead on completed homicides, but given all parties were dead I don't think the investigation went much further. There's no one to prosecute, sort of like a murder/suicide, once it's established it's a closed Exceptionally Cleared - Death of Offender.