Obesity, Fitness, Guns & Threats.

[GardoneVT]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

[JTQ]

I believe in most cases, unless you're paid to carry a gun, being physically fit is probably better for your safety (ability to maneuver) than competency with a firearm (I'm not saying those paid to carry a gun shouldn't be fit, by the way).

Of course being fit and competent with a firearm would be better. However, just going to the range is a physical activity, and doing anything is better than doing nothing.

[Wobblie]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

Eat better, shoot more. It is not either-or.

[GardoneVT]

Eat better, shoot more. It is not either-or.

Perhaps not perfectly binary-yet an overweight individual who pumps time and money into gun training without taking any to personally exercise is hardly uncommon at the range I work at.

Not that by "exercise" I don't mean SEAL BUD/S grade torture. Just the medically recommended 150 minutes of weekly exercise ,accomplished by walking/jogging/etc.

[Adam]

If it has to be one or the other:

How many people do you know that have been in gunfights as a private citizen? How many overweight people do you know whose health is suffering or even people who have died of related issues? You don't have to answer, I can guess.

If you die of a heart attack running up a set of steps I don't care about your FAST time.

[BobLoblaw]

Wow, isn't it strange how this thread just came up out of nowhere? Here's the affirmation you were seeking: obesity is more likely to kill you than violent crime. If one can't prioritize, that's on them.

[voodoo_man]

Exercise is free. Will power is extremely expensive.

You can do both, exercise and be proficient with weapons and train for a violent encounter.

[rob_s]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

As someone who has posited similar questions for the last... 20 years? I can tell you to brace yourself for a bunch of "it's none of your business" replies.

[jeep45238]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

I'm putting health over shooting skills. More statistically relevant to a longer life with less alms, and coincidentally increases the ability to do other things/hobbies more effectively. One less thing to focus on/specifically work towards. Also helps with mental health more often.

3 days a week lifting weights, 5 days a week doing light bicycling, 2-3 days a week doing self-pace 2 mile runs.

[rob_s]

and...

if it's not "either/or" why are there so many people that seem to have forgone the former in favor of the latter? if one is training to survive a gunfight that will never happen, but is in danger of not surviving their own lunch, how is anyone supposed to take them seriously?

Oh, wait, I already know... it's none of my business.

[rob_s]

Also...

this topic is generally pretty disengenous. You already know the answers to the questions you pose, which essentially boil down to:

For most of the population:
1) LARPing is fun.
2) Eating healthy and exercising is not.

[Norville]

How many fit people do you see at the gym?
How many competent shooters do you see at the range?

I agree with the above, the average citizen is more likely to die of health issues than a gunshot wound. I don't think it is an either / or situation. Eat right, exercise properly, and train with your firearm as much as you can. 10-15 minutes a day of dry fire is far more than the average CCW holder I would venture.

[jeep45238]

and...

if it's not "either/or" why are there so many people that seem to have forgone the former in favor of the latter? if one is training to survive a gunfight that will never happen, but is in danger of not surviving their own lunch, how is anyone supposed to take them seriously?

Oh, wait, I already know... it's none of my business.

Greg E did a great article on this recently, telling people to take care of their physical health before taking a class from him. I think he was able to Barney it down to people being more afraid of being embarrassed than they are death.

[Drang]

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

It's a personal choice.

[blues]

I don't really see a point to the question posed since you can make the same argument or point with virtually any activity.

I see lots of fat people riding motorcycles. Maybe they should walk more.

Obese people collecting stamps? Maybe they should get outside and get some exercise.

Fat people watching TV? Fat people sitting and listening to music? The possibilities are endless. If you look around, unhealthy folks surround us in virtually any and every venue. Firearms and shooting related activities certainly have no monopoly in this arena.

You probably could have just made a Public Service Announcement thread and said: Folks need to take their physical and mental health more seriously, eat their vegetables, get outdoors more and get a modicum of exercise.

Otherwise, you might as well just realize that like all the other unhealthy folks out there doing different things, some folks simply enjoy shooting guns for sport or other reasons whether they are obese or not.

[Drang]

I don't really see a point to the question posed since you can make the same argument or point with virtually any activity.

I see lots of fat people riding motorcycles. Maybe they should walk more.

Obese people collecting stamps? Maybe they should get outside and get some exercise.

Fat people watching TV? Fat people sitting and listening to music? The possibilities are endless. If you look around, unhealthy folks surround us in virtually any and every venue. Firearms and shooting related activities certainly have no monopoly in this arena.

You probably could have just made a Public Service Announcement thread and said: Folks need to take their physical and mental health more seriously, eat their vegetables, get outdoors more and get a modicum of exercise.

Otherwise, you might as well just realize that like all the other unhealthy folks out there doing different things, some folks simply enjoy shooting guns for sport or other reasons whether they are obese or not.

TL;DR version;

It's a personal choice.
:p

[RevolverRob]

I'll counter. It actually can be and often IS an either/or decision. You can eat right and go to the gym regularly, both of which cost more than eating crap food and not going to the gym. And both of which will subsequently cut into your gun/ammunition/range time budget. Not too mention that time is valuable and it costs time to go to the gym like it does the range. I come home later four nights a week, because I go to the gym after work. I have to go to the gym 3-5 times a week to stay healthy. I need only 1-range session a week to stay near the top of my game. The end result is on Sunday when I would go to the range, I have responsibilities at home that keep me from the range as often as I would like.
I also spend more buying fresh veggies for salad then I would eating McD's every day - the end result is I spend less on ammunition. I also spend more on BJJ classes every month as a result of my focus on health and this translates into less money for range visits and ammunition.

It really can be an either/or situation when you're on a limited budget.

All of that said. I would normally say it isn't any of my business. Heaven knows, I'm overweight (still, but going down every day) and have at times pushed right up to limit of being obese. But a couple of years ago, I realized that I was far more likely to die of a heart attack than get in a gunfight, and I live on the south side of Chicago. I was also being irresponsible to my wife, my family, and myself, by prioritizing things like shooting over my own health. It wasn't until I confronted some of the mental health issues that were seriously plaguing me that the fallacy of my choices came to the forefront. - I see a lot of people who are making the same mistakes. Prioritizing feeling good and a false sense of confidence given by A-zone hits, over the reality of hard work.

It's not surprising, our society punishes hard work through taxes and denigration of success, but glorifies get-rich-quick and 15-minutes of fame. We are a society that favors stop-gap solutions to the reality that it takes hard work to make things better. Personally? I'm working on changing that culture. One of the ways of doing that is to talk openly about my own struggles, but also to tell the truth.

If you can't run up two flights of stairs but you can execute a sub-2 second Bill Drill. You're fucked. Like full-on, completely, and utterly, fucked. In the coming apocalypse that seems to be every other gun owner's wet dream, people like my roommate who runs marathons for fun, are gonna run up six flights of stairs, get a gun, and then come back and shoot you in the face while you're lying there trying to catch your breath, and not even break a sweat.

If you can't Appendix carry, because you're too fat - quit fucking eating and go exercise.

If your daily steps do not exceed your caloric intake for the day - you've got fucked up priorities and need to get your shit together.

If you spent $1000 taking a carbine class last year, but you haven't had a physical in five years - you're fucked up.

If reading this makes you mad, because it isn't easy to lose weight and exercise - GOOD. That's true. Trust me, I struggle with this shit every-fucking-day. Seriously, I don't want to go to the gym this evening, but I will, because sometimes life isn't about what you want it's about what you NEED to do.

[blues]

TL;DR version;

:p

Oh, I see...the libertarian advocating "personal choice" has now abrogated my personal choice in how I express the content of my thoughts, huh?


I guess some posters are more equal than others.


;)

[spinmove_]

Wait....where are you buying produce and fresh food that costs you more than eating a meal at McDonald's?

I can go to Meijer and grab a pack of chicken breast or pork chops, a bag of frozen broccoli, and 1 cup of uncooked rice for ~$7 or less and 20 minutes later feed myself 3 to 4 times over. And it's healthy.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Suvorov]

Overweight gun store/range commando's bothering you?

You are correct - statistically speaking devoting your attention to staying healthy will help you live a longer life than spending every free moment at the range. Doubt anyone here will argue that fact.

So now what? As Blue has said - Fat People are Everywhere.
And as rare as it is for me to agree with Rob - the facts are that many people (myself included) find shooting more enjoyable that most forms of exercise (my wife on the other hand could do yoga all day but finds a trip to the range to be abhorrent). Maybe in some cases if you are an overweight man who feels somewhat insecure, it is a lot easier to buy a gun and blast at dirt clods and convince yourself you are dangerous than it is to get in shape. But whatever the reason - it isn't something I worry a lot about and as long as I live in a free country I "GASP" - mind my own business. Other than reinforcing a stereotype - they really are not hurting anyone as long as they are competent marksmen.

Maybe you could get one of your Rep's to propose legislation that would prohibit overweight people from owning a firearm? Or maybe you can become a personal trainer/combat marksmanship guru (kind of like a heavily armed Richard Simmons) and make it your life mission to rid the country of fat shooters?

[orionz06]

Eat better, shoot more. It is not either-or.


Perhaps not perfectly binary-yet an overweight individual who pumps time and money into gun training without taking any to personally exercise is hardly uncommon at the range I work at.

Not that by "exercise" I don't mean SEAL BUD/S grade torture. Just the medically recommended 150 minutes of weekly exercise ,accomplished by walking/jogging/etc.

Gonna side with Wobblie, and the truth, why not both? Weight loss isn't 150 minutes of walking a week. Weight is lost in the kitchen. No matter what the hypothetical gun owner does they're gonna eat every day. They're gonna eat if they're taking Asymmetric Speargun Level 3 or if they've started to lift and have the best coach they can get. They can fix the intake and take too many classes. It's still hard as fuck to lose weight but it's not either/or.

[blues]

Or maybe you can become a personal trainer/combat marksmanship guru (kind of like a heavily armed Richard Simmons) and make it your life mission to rid the country of fat shooters?

You had me right up until Richard Simmons...when you sent shivers down my spine.

15355

[blues]

Gonna side with Wobblie, and the truth, why not both? Weight loss isn't 150 minutes of walking a week. Weight is lost in the kitchen. No matter what the hypothetical gun owner does they're gonna eat every day. They're gonna eat if they're taking Asymmetric Speargun Level 3 or if they've started to lift and have the best coach they can get. They can fix the intake and take too many classes. It's still hard as fuck to lose weight but it's not either/or.

Tom, I love you like a brother or son or something...but I'm gonna disagree somewhat and say that walking alone can make a major difference in weight regulation even in the absence of dietary changes. That said, no doubt eating healthy is a great goal. (One I've never mastered particularly well...and though I'm not heavy at 5'10" / 177 lbs, I'm sure that clean eating would make me a lot healthier.)

For example, when I moved up here to the mountains, I was certainly not eating cleaner than I had been previously and was definitely hitting the pubs with friends more than I had been before retiring. Nonetheless, just the walking up and down the mountain to get the mail and walk the dog took 10 lbs off in little time. Now, I guess if someone is truly heavy, then maybe walking alone is not sufficient. But I will say that regular walking is an amazing boon to one's health.

[Leroy Suggs]

Walking is good. You will feel better and maintain weight.
I walk 3 miles at a brisk pace (40 minutes) four or five times a week and think it helps my health a good bit.

[rob_s]

I don't think the question has ever been about either/or.

It's more about "if you *need* all that gun and training and foruming in order to survive shtfantasy, why aren't you ALSO doing something about the far greater thread to your well being?"

To which, of course, we already know the answer, which is "because I'm only using because:survival as an excuse to go do fun shit and larp around my town and the range and the internet, not because I actually believe there is a true danger to my life that guns, knives, and training classes will address."

[orionz06]

Tom, I love you like a brother or son or something...but I'm gonna disagree somewhat and say that walking alone can make a major difference in weight regulation even in the absence of dietary changes. That said, no doubt eating healthy is a great goal. (One I've never mastered particularly well...and though I'm not heavy at 5'10" / 177 lbs, I'm sure that clean eating would make me a lot healthier.)

For example, when I moved up here to the mountains, I was certainly not eating cleaner than I had been previously and was definitely hitting the pubs with friends more than I had been before retiring. Nonetheless, just the walking up and down the mountain to get the mail and walk the dog took 10 lbs off in little time. Now, I guess if someone is truly heavy, then maybe walking alone is not sufficient. But I will say that regular walking is an amazing boon to one's health.

You're not a giant though. Based on pics I'd guess that you don't slay a pizza for lunch and wash it down with Mountain Dew. Someone who makes it to where they can't see their gear when they take a leak won't walk that off without a change in intake. We got lots of tank asses at work who walk 1, 2, and 3 miles just on lunch. They're still fat after years of doing so.


I'm not saying don't walk though, I'm saying eat less. That's what works.

[VT1032]

Running sucks, shooting is fun, and I like cheeseburgers. Your argument is invalid. The end.

[Suvorov]

You had me right up until Richard Simmons...when you sent shivers down my spine.

15355

You have given pixels to the mental image I wished to convey! Bravo!

BUT!!! I can already heard the detractors.....
- What "tier one unit did he serve with"?
- NOBODY uses a fixed stock and iron sights anymore!!!!
- Multi Cam! He's NOT wearing Multi Cam!!!

[idahojess]

Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

Life is short, they should do what they want to do. Personally, I hit the gym and walk the dog far more often than I hit the range. If I can do all three in one day, great.

Actually, I think this forum has a pretty active group of people in it, which is good.
As I get a little older though, I realize how easy it is to get overweight and out of shape. I empathize with people who are out of shape, because I realize how much an injury or pain, plus day-to-day issues, can break up what used to be a regular workout routine.

[RevolverRob]

But whatever the reason - it isn't something I worry a lot about and as long as I live in a free country I "GASP" - mind my own business. Other than reinforcing a stereotype - they really are not hurting anyone as long as they are competent marksmen.

Maybe you could get one of your Rep's to propose legislation that would prohibit overweight people from owning a firearm? Or maybe you can become a personal trainer/combat marksmanship guru (kind of like a heavily armed Richard Simmons) and make it your life mission to rid the country of fat shooters?

As a hardcore libertarian it really pains me to say this. But if we do not eliminate the single-payer healthcare system currently foisted upon us. Well, then it damn well becomes part of my vested interest to tell you to put down the cheeseburger and the 1911 and go get on the treadmill. Like it or not the reality is heart disease and stroke are 2 of the biggest 3 killers in our country. Add in the massive cost of healthcare and the potential for extended invalid care...Once my tax dollars are paying for the repercussions of Fatty-Boom-Balatty stuffing their face with mega-sized Big Macs and drowning it with 84-ounce Diet Cokes - I'm going to start giving a shit.

Do I want to care? Nope. Not one bit. I would rather everyone pays their own fair share and deals with their own shit. Personal choices, personal responsibility. But if we don't deviate from this path to one of personal responsibility. Then you just might find me walking down the firing line at the local range and telling guys with stomachs hanging over their belt buckles to pack the gun up and go to the gym...:rolleyes:

[Robinson]

It boils down to making good choices. Carrying a gun and training can be one of them. Doing it because you think it makes you prepared for the world in the absence of other good lifestyle choices is not one. I say do both. If you can't for some reason, fitness will provide more benefit for most people based on risk/reward.

I once saw a dude in a LGS who came in to shoot. With a large extended family all of whom stood in front of the range counter while this guy did everything for them. He was obviously the ring leader. This guy was open carrying a pistol on his hip -- open carrying because his shirt would not fit over the gun since he was quite overweight. He wore flip-flops on his feet. The thought that ran through my mind was that despite carrying a gun this guy was absolutely not prepared for any type of incident that could necessitate the use of his firearm. Fail.

It's getting harder as I get older, but I still work out 3-4 times per week, still train in a martial art (not as much as back in the day), and try to eat right most of the time. Not doing so just doesn't make a lot of sense.

[blues]

You're not a giant though. Based on pics I'd guess that you don't slay a pizza for lunch and wash it down with Mountain Dew. Someone who makes it to where they can't see their gear when they take a leak won't walk that off without a change in intake. We got lots of tank asses at work who walk 1, 2, and 3 miles just on lunch. They're still fat after years of doing so.


I'm not saying don't walk though, I'm saying eat less. That's what works.

Back when I was at my heaviest and wanted to lose weight, the Atkins diet and principles worked great for me. Dropped from the 180's to 160's in no time at all and felt good doing it. I think the man had it right, and then he gets his plan scoffed at for slipping on ice and kicking the bucket. It's a cruel world.

[blues]

You have given pixels to the mental image I wished to convey! Bravo!

BUT!!! I can already heard the detractors.....
- What "tier one unit did he serve with"?
- NOBODY uses a fixed stock and iron sights anymore!!!!
- Multi Cam! He's NOT wearing Multi Cam!!!

I found the image on the web. I really wasn't expecting to find anything but google really is your friend (sometimes).

[orionz06]

Back when I was at my heaviest and wanted to lose weight, the Atkins diet and principles worked great for me. Dropped from the 180's to 160's in no time at all and felt good doing it. I think the man had it right, and then he gets his plan scoffed at for slipping on ice and kicking the bucket. It's a cruel world.

Creating a cult like following kills anything, good or bad. AIWB, Gadgets, crossfit, Herpley-Derpison's, Glocks...

He may have been wrong but it's hard to ignore the mountains of anecdotal evidence that support the principles.

[PNWTO]

Defoor put this on his blog a few years back. (http://kyledefoor.tumblr.com/post/105099987758/reasons-originally-posted-aug-27-2010) I had just left the service due to medical reasons out of my control and wasn't in the best place. I put it on my door and would read it if anything dark or distracting came to mind.


posted Aug 27, 2010

1. The majority of people are fat

2. Kids are fatter

3. It’s cheap

4. Video games are a sign of weakness. Go do the real thing and you won’t be #1.

5. You’ll shoot better under stress, guaranteed or your money back.

6. You’ll fight better under stress and a load (gear), guaranteed or your money back.

7. Makes you feel good even on a shitty day

8. The best predators do it

9. If you carry a gun, you’re a predator. If you don’t think so, then don’t carry a gun, go play video games.

10. Health benefits are through the roof.

If you tell me to do something that is best interest of protecting myself and my loved ones then I will probably be grabbing the running shoes and not the range bag. But one feeds the other, and vice versa. It is most definitely not an either/or thing, as has been pointed. I feel really fortunate that the P-F community understands this and, like always, can discuss it frankly and maturely.

[Wondering Beard]

People ought to ... a whole bunch of things.

I ought to ... a whole bunch of things.

I care about the latter, I don't care about the former.

[Doc_Glock]

I thought this article summed it up nicely:

http://mattthornton.org/fighting-and-not-or-fitness/

"If you’re not focused on staying healthy and being in shape, then you’re not yet serious about self-preservation."

Do what you want, but don't fool yourself that a gunfight is a high statistical probability.

That said, this is a gun enthusiast forum, not a fitness forum.

[chl442]

and...

if it's not "either/or" why are there so many people that seem to have forgone the former in favor of the latter? if one is training to survive a gunfight that will never happen, but is in danger of not surviving their own lunch, how is anyone supposed to take them seriously?

Oh, wait, I already know... it's none of my business.

....thats right it's none of your fucking business.

[Totem Polar]

Clearly, the answer to the OP has been with us all along. It's not really open to debate.

That said, one thing that occasionally gets omitted from the fit vs tac obsession articles is this idea of choice, and an individual's right to determine direction.

To wit: there is a big difference between someone shooting smack of their own volition, and someone else holding them down and injecting drugs into them against their will, despite the results looking largely similar.

That's the only reason why the people who are horrendously out of shape and in marginal health, but still spend all that time and money doing Timmy McTactical "self defense" things are not objectively retarded.

Admittedly, the point that RevRob and others make about society collectively shouldering the burden for unhealthy choices has to be factored in as well. Interesting stuff to ponder. Reminds me of the helmet law debate.

Beyond that stuff, yeah. The heart attack on the first flight of stairs versus the sub 5 or 6 fast thing. To be sure.

[breakingtime91]

I rather spend more time in the gym than on the range. Even if I didn't I think being physically fit and "able" is more important than shooting to a level we aspire to on this forum. With that said, I still dry fire daily (now atleast) and try to make it to the range because I think it's important. As a whole, people usually get focused on one aspect of something they like. Self preservation isn't just about carrying a gun, it's about being healthy, knowing comabtives, knowing meidcal, knowing how to manage yourself, etc.

[Jay Cunningham]

People would be better off spending less time on social media and forums.

[Hambo]

I only want to live 162 more days.

[Joe in PNG]

The classic refrain is that "the perfect is the enemy of the good".
Thus the idea that if you don't carry two Roland specials daily, or if you don't take a class once a month, or if you don't shoot 1,000 rounds a week, you're going to get kilt on da streets (slight exaggeration). Truth is, a pocket carried J Frame will up your odds a lot in a confrontation. However, a lot of folks make the effort to do the optimum, find it an expensive pain in the rear, and don't carry anything.

Likewise, the ideal for fitness is the may be 3 hours in the gym daily, followed by a triathlon after work, and a dinner of poached fish and raw broccoli. (again, exaggerating). People try to do this, find it difficult, and quit all together. Better to encourage people to do the possible (walk a few times a week, cut down on the sugary drinks, take the stairs instead of the elevator, ect) and work up from there.

[chl442]

I only want to live 162 more days.

This ! X 1000

[blues]

The classic refrain is that "the perfect is the enemy of the good".
Thus the idea that if you don't carry two Roland specials daily, or if you don't take a class once a month, or if you don't shoot 1,000 rounds a week, you're going to get kilt on da streets (slight exaggeration). Truth is, a pocket carried J Frame will up your odds a lot in a confrontation. However, a lot of folks make the effort to do the optimum, find it an expensive pain in the rear, and don't carry anything.

Likewise, the ideal for fitness is the may be 3 hours in the gym daily, followed by a triathlon after work, and a dinner of poached fish and raw broccoli. (again, exaggerating). People try to do this, find it difficult, and quit all together. Better to encourage people to do the possible (walk a few times a week, cut down on the sugary drinks, take the stairs instead of the elevator, ect) and work up from there.

So what I'm reading is:

J Frame in pocket holster...Check

Pizza with wings and extra cheese...Check

Beer (Hydration and carb loading for grueling workouts)...Check


I think we've got this shit figured out now. :cool:

[JohnO]

Learn to Shoot on the Move! There both problems solved. :cool:

[chl442]

I'm really not sure why this is so complicated.
You can actually have a gym membership and lift weights 3 days a week.
You can actually be mindful of your diet and avoid smoking altogether and drink alcohol in
moderation or not at all.
You can actually go to the range and shoot your guns and take classes and carry your gun as often as legally possible.
I'm lucky enough (or unlucky depending on the day) to see the results of people's bad lifestyle choices
that run the gambit from illness complicated by obesity , MVA's caused by texting and driving , and sometimes just really bad luck.
Trying to turn this topic into either go to the gym or carry a gun is utterly ridiculous.

[Hambo]

Anybody ever hear of optimism bias? One example would be: I won't get killed in the streetz because I carry two guns and a hand grenade. Yet another example would be: I won't have heart attack because I live the diet exercise life unlike the fat bastards at the range.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't exercise, get vaccinations, or do other things that promote good health. But here's the juice: we've all got it coming.

[orionz06]

People would be better off spending less time on social media and forums.

What should we do at work then?

[BehindBlueI's]

given a specific one vs the other choice?

It's never a specific choice of one vs the other unless those are literally the only two things you do and the only two budget items you have. Which applies to nobody.


I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS

It's a bullshit question from the start because it's built on a bullshit premise. See above.

At least going to the range involves some standing and walking. Why not "instead of watch tv" or "instead of "play around on the Internet" or "instead of drinking beer", etc? Self defense shootings usually don't take much cardio. It isn't tunnel fighting against Charlie. Of course being in better shape is better, it's why it's called "good shape" vs "bad shape". What's that got to do with preparing to deal with a robber or rapist?

What about other risky behavior? If you're serious about self defense, sell your motorcycle? That's money for ammo/range time/gym time, the time you spent on the bike is now available for training, and you've gotten rid of a an object/behavior with a higher than average risk of significant injury or death? You work as a night clerk at a convenient store in a sketchy part of town? You can't go to the gym OR range until you get a better job because that's your biggest risk right now?

And it's not a bullshit question...

[JohnO]

But here's the juice: we've all got it coming.

True. Additionally who wants to go through life as a fat feeble bastard when a few good behavior and lifestyle choices give you the ability to really live and not just exist marking time till the dirt nap.

[chl442]

Anybody ever hear of optimism bias? One example would be: I won't get killed in the streetz because I carry two guns and a hand grenade. Yet another example would be: I won't have heart attack because I live the diet exercise life unlike the fat bastards at the range.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't exercise, get vaccinations, or do other things that promote good health. But here's the juice: we've all got it coming.

We've all got it coming !
Ain't that the truth. And all the risk analysis models and studies won't change that.
Lord knows I'm seen some truly horrific shit in the past 7 days including of all things a relatively healthy teenager that died from of all things the flu . Just the flu .

[blues]

If nothing else, do it for the chicks!...or dudes!...or gender of choice! Whatever. Give a shit. Get a mirror.

[Robert Mitchum]

https://youtu.be/EiFX-NgBlHE

[Drang]

People would also be better if if they got down off their high horses and refrained from lecturing other people about their lifestyle choices.

I mean, yeah, I managed to refrain from popping that cross-fitter I'd never seen before when he decided to lecture me at Safeway about how the sawdust and library paste protein bars were better for me than Reese's Sticks*, but next time he might not be so lucky.



*True story.

[blues]

People would also be better if if they got down off their high horses and refrained from lecturing other people about their lifestyle choices.

I mean, yeah, I managed to refrain from popping that cross-fitter I'd never seen before when he decided to lecture me at Safeway about how the sawdust and library paste protein bars were better for me than Reese's Sticks*, but next time he might not be so lucky.



*True story.

15361

[JV_]

It's never a specific choice of one vs the other unless those are literally the only two things you do and the only two budget items you have. Which applies to nobody.

And even then, you can probably find 15 minutes to dry fire.

[Joe in PNG]

True. Additionally who wants to go through life as a fat feeble bastard when a few good behavior and lifestyle choices give you the ability to really live and not just exist marking time till the dirt nap.

The gym bores the heck out of me. I'd much rather hike a nice trail.

[blues]

(nothing to see here)

[Drang]

I fixed the spelling and grammar in the thread title. I probably should have been dry firing, or doing pushups, or pretty much anything else. Oh well, time for a snack. :)

It was driving me nuts, but I couldn't think of a way to comment on it that wouldn't make me sound like some high-horse asshole, lecturing people...

[RevolverRob]

Self defense shootings usually don't take much cardio. It isn't tunnel fighting against Charlie. Of course being in better shape is better, it's why it's called "good shape" vs "bad shape". What's that got to do with preparing to deal with a robber or rapist?

I always liked this quote by Paul Sharp - "It's an indisputable fact, strong people are harder to kill. By default, strong people are harder to injure, stop, maim or affect in other ways."

So, what's cardio and health go to do with prepping to deal with a robber or a rapist? Interesting you should frame it in the context of robbery and rape. Both crimes tend to happen close (one, rape, is absolutely necessary to be close), can and often do result in an entangled fight (particularly in the case of rape). Entanglement means less ability to draw your gun and shoot your way out of the problem. It instead necessitates physical strength and mental strength to solve the entanglement problem or the close-distance problem. If you're gassed out walking up a flight of stairs, you're gonna be 100% ragged the fuck out if your rolling around on the ground with a fighting opponent for even 30-seconds. If your opponent is bigger, stronger, and fitter than you - you run a good chance of flat out losing.

Not every self-defense scenario is a shooting, in fact, it appears that some 99% of them are not shootings. So, it behooves you to spend some range time, hitting the gym and not sucking at everything else that involves a potential fight, like cardio, striking, and grappling.


What about other risky behavior? If you're serious about self defense, sell your motorcycle? That's money for ammo/range time/gym time, the time you spent on the bike is now available for training, and you've gotten rid of a an object/behavior with a higher than average risk of significant injury or death? You work as a night clerk at a convenient store in a sketchy part of town? You can't go to the gym OR range until you get a better job because that's your biggest risk right now?

And it's not a bullshit question...

I concur. Every person must assess their risk. We can note that unintentional injury (home accidents, cars, motorcycles, etc) is the fourth leading cause of death in this country. So, you're absolutely right that selling your motorcycle if you're serious about self-preservation is something to consider. But I do think we're trending toward reducto ad absurdum here. Most accidents happen in the home, maybe I should stay in the office? Inherent with freedom is risk. Which is why we have McDonald's, gun ranges, and 700-horsepower muscle cars you can go buy at your local car dealer.

But there is a practical reality. Gunfights are exceedingly rare, so rare, that depending on your profession you are statistically more likely to get hit by lightning than be in a gunfight. So, spending time ostensibly training for this outlier event, but not doing the work to prevent the much more statistically likely killer (heart disease), is delusional. Full stop. If that's what you want to do with your life, cool. But I, personally, get a bit tired of guys telling me how quick their Bill Drills or FAST Drills are and how they are ready to take on the Indonesian Death Squads, when they can't run up a flight of stairs. It's ridiculous and if you or a friend are deluding yourself in this way, then it's inappropriate.

If you (universal) prefer to go to the range than the gym. Awesome, go to the range. BUT don't delude yourself shooting is a hobby, awesome. It has some practical value, but if you're focused on being responsible for your family and your life, and choose extensive range time over extensive gym time, you're doing it wrong.


People would also be better if if they got down off their high horses and refrained from lecturing other people about their lifestyle choices.

I mean, yeah, I managed to refrain from popping that cross-fitter I'd never seen before when he decided to lecture me at Safeway about how the sawdust and library paste protein bars were better for me than Reese's Sticks*, but next time he might not be so lucky.

*True story.

So, I've been preachy in this thread, given the topic and OP question. But the reality is, I don't talk to people in public about their weight or what they eat. I don't want people talking to me about it, so I don't do it (Golden Rule). So all I can say is...you've shown more restraint than I would have. Last time commented on what I was buying at the grocery store I told them to mind their own fucking business.

This also reminds me of a joke...In a bar you meet a vegan crossfitter which do they tell you about first?

Or - A vegan, an athiest, and a crossfitter walked into a bar.

I only know because they told everyone within 2-minutes.

[orionz06]

I fixed the spelling and grammar in the thread title. I probably should have been dry firing, or doing pushups, or pretty much anything else. Oh well, time for a snack. :)

Or researching pants that don't have knee pockets. :cool:

[blues]

I always liked this quote by Paul Sharp - "It's an indisputable fact, strong people are harder to kill. By default, strong people are harder to injure, stop, maim or affect in other ways."

Rare is the time I would take an alternative position to Paul's, (especially since I sure as hell ain't fighting him), but sometimes context is everything and blanket statements are only generally true.

Back in the day when I used to spar with a couple guys that were getting ready for the golden gloves competition in NYC, this one fella, Gene, was a big, strong, strapping guy who when he hit you, (and he was considerably bigger and stronger than me), you pretty much stayed hit. My jaw still snaps a little from a hook I took from him one time.

Anyway, we went up to the armory in the Bronx for his fight. I forget how deep we were into the competition at that point. He fought this tall, skinny, lanky kid who looked like if he got hit he'd break into pieces.

Well, when Gene woke up I had to convince him that he got knocked out in the first round. The punch that him was a thing of beauty. I doubt this kid could bench his (not imposing) body weight. Gene could have pressed four of him.

I take nothing and no one for granted. I've seen little guys in bars walk outside and cold cock much bigger, stronger guys that I thought would kill the poor bastards.

Anyway, just saying. 99 out of 100 times, Paul's probably right on. Especially when it's a skilled big / strong man in the fight.

[YVK]

Weight loss isn't 150 minutes of walking a week. Weight is lost in the kitchen.


100% correct. I have to tell this to my patients if not daily, then every other day. Running 10 min mile for 30 min barely gets 400 kcal off an average person. Most "post-workout recovery" drinks will put half, if not 3/4, of that right back.
I am 6'1", 185, 48 yo man, my basal metabolic rate estimate is about 1800 kcal. I have to keep myself at 2200 kcal daily plus whatever I need for daily non-exercise activities, and run those three miles every day, and my weight will not change. This is an approximation, of course, but it gives an idea.
I swim and I see people who look like whales and who swim OK and lose no weight at all.


Now, lemme ask an opposite question. While of a lesser epidemiologic concern, low body mass / low muscle mass is a significant morbidity and mortality risk as well. In fact, there is even an obesity survival paradox that's been well described. So, if there is a question to overweight people "why don't you hit the gym instead of shooting", why is it not being asked of those bony types who can't bench their weight or dead lift something decent?

[HCM]

This also reminds me of a joke...In a bar you meet a vegan crossfitter which do they tell you about first?

Or - A vegan, an athiest, and a crossfitter walked into a bar.

I only know because they told everyone within 2-minutes.

You forgot FireFighters ...

[Nephrology]

At the end of the day, you only get 1 body and it is yours to use and use up. Do so as you see fit. Like every other choice you make in life, be mindful that what ye sow, so shall ye reap.

Besides, exercise isn't a chore - it's fun. Also, beer is awesome and eating healthy all the time is fucking boring. Them's my choices.

[HCM]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

Your question is flawed and unrealistic. How about : Should someone who is over weight spend their day off on the couch eating and watching TV and walk 60 or 80 steps beteween the couch and the fridge or should they walk an extra 6k or 8k steps spending the day setting up, shooting, taping and tearing down an IDPA match ?

[Joe in PNG]

Now, lemme ask an opposite question. While of a lesser epidemiologic concern, low body mass / low muscle mass is a significant morbidity and mortality risk as well. In fact, there is even an obesity survival paradox that's been well described. So, if there is a question to overweight people "why don't you hit the gym instead of shooting", why is it not being asked of those bony types who can't bench their weight or dead lift something decent?

I've known a number of skinny exercise freaks who have had heart attacks and multiple bypass operations.

[Clobbersaurus]

I had a whole big rant typed out, but it's not worth it to post it all.

I really hate these types of threads and I generally think they are beneath the quality of membership here.

Judge a person by their actions, not by their appearance. It's freakin' 2017, have people not learned this yet?

[Nephrology]

I've known a number of skinny exercise freaks who have had heart attacks and multiple bypass operations.

If they were nonsmokers under the age of 60 with well controlled BP and no other risk factors, that is unusual and likely genetic. It also is fairly irrelevant. All risk factors for everything fall into 2 categories - modifiable, and non-modifiable. You modify the ones you can, you live with the ones you cannot. Your personal decision making shouldn't really change either way.

As for the "skinny fat," they still need to exercise. If you are doing reasonably high intensity cardiovascular exercise for 150min/week, you will definitely have some muscle. Look at Mo Farrah or other 10k + distance runners - they aren't beefy Arnold types but they definitely have lots of (type 1) muscle, and clearly not the at-risk population to be are concerned about.

[Tamara]

RevolverRob,


Interesting you should frame it in the context of robbery and rape. Both crimes tend to happen close (one, rape, is absolutely necessary to be close), can and often do result in an entangled fight (particularly in the case of rape). Entanglement means less ability to draw your gun and shoot your way out of the problem. It instead necessitates physical strength and mental strength to solve the entanglement problem or the close-distance problem. If you're gassed out walking up a flight of stairs, you're gonna be 100% ragged the fuck out if your rolling around on the ground with a fighting opponent for even 30-seconds. If your opponent is bigger, stronger, and fitter than you - you run a good chance of flat out losing.

Did the grad student really just lecture the big city PD major crimes detective on the realities of street crime? I want to make sure that what I thought I saw is actually what I saw... ;)

[RevolverRob]

RevolverRob,

Did the grad student really just lecture the big city PD major crimes detective on the realities of street crime? I want to make sure that what I thought I saw is actually what I saw... ;)

Only because the big city PD Major crimes detective framed the question as,
Of course being in better shape is better, it's why it's called "good shape" vs "bad shape". What's that got to do with preparing to deal with a robber or rapist?

Or maybe the Aspie didn't get the joke. :eek:

[45dotACP]

Haha man this discussion rarely comes up as it's own thread, but as a rule it generally provokes the "mind your own fucking business" response from folks.

Fortunately (adjusts nerd glasses) the health of people happens to be my business, so here's me minding my business:

The skinny folks ain't always healthy. I'd get regular checkups and lab work and use it as a guideline to achieve better health. I couldn't give a flying fuck if you're fat or skinny. Take your statins, beta blockers and if you have diabetes, get that shit under control. Toes are funny in that you never know how amazing it is to have them until you wake up with only three between both feet.

Stop smoking. It puts you at risk for nearly every disease imaginable. Wanna know why? Because it is one of the most destructive habits extant. Yeah, quitting is tough...It's better than dying of COPD. Also fuck cancer, so don't get it.

Seriously. Stop smoking.

Also, alcohol is fun, but if you pound a fifth every other night, you'll end up in the hospital with the hallucinations, seizures and death. Talk about a hangover yeah? Yeah alcohol is one if the most dangerous substances to detoxify from your body, so don't drink a lot. I mean you can still go get fucked up a time or two...But several times a week? That's an issue. I was just taking care of a cop at work. I had to jump on top of him to keep him from running naked through the halls. Three days prior he was totally cool, we went to some of the same ranges, knew a few of the same kids in high school...But the withdrawal of alcohol will not be denied and it turns honorable, decent men into violent, paranoid lunatics.

All if the things should be at least in your mind if you think of self preservation. That said... Nobody is immortal and you'll die of something. It is mostly your choice, but bear in mind that repeated stays in the ICU are usually the result of some poorly managed chronic condition. Don't be that guy. Acting like you'll be the one extraordinarily healthy person out of a hundred who smokes, drinks and eats McDonalds every day will not make it so. Most likely, you'll be the middle of the bell curve and will realize it after an angiogram...Or when the doctor tells you you'll need to walk around with an oxygen tank.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[orionz06]

I had a whole big rant typed out, but it's not worth it to post it all.

I really hate these types of threads and I generally think they are beneath the quality of membership here.

Judge a person by their actions, not by their appearance. It's freakin' 2017, have people not learned this yet?

It appears to me that folks are comparing best approaches for people with various physical attributes and shooting skills mixed in with some second level discussion. Did I miss something?

[RevolverRob]

It appears to me that folks are comparing best approaches for people with various physical attributes and shooting skills mixed in with some second level discussion. Did I miss something?

Come on man, it's 2017. We've got #NoSlutShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoSlutShaming) from 2015, #NoFatShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoFatShaming) from 2016, this year we're at #NoGunRangeShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoGunRangeShaming)

[orionz06]

Who hates sluts?

[Joe in PNG]

If they were nonsmokers under the age of 60 with well controlled BP and no other risk factors, that is unusual and likely genetic. It also is fairly irrelevant. All risk factors for everything fall into 2 categories - modifiable, and non-modifiable. You modify the ones you can, you live with the ones you cannot. Your personal decision making shouldn't really change either way.

All four of them were non-smokers and non drinkers. Three are/were ministers at my Church in Florida.

[YVK]

If they were nonsmokers under the age of 60 with well controlled BP and no other risk factors, that is unusual and likely genetic. It also is fairly irrelevant. All risk factors for everything fall into 2 categories - modifiable, and non-modifiable. You modify the ones you can, you live with the ones you cannot. Your personal decision making shouldn't really change either way.

As for the "skinny fat," they still need to exercise. If you are doing reasonably high intensity cardiovascular exercise for 150min/week, you will definitely have some muscle. Look at Mo Farrah or other 10k + distance runners - they aren't beefy Arnold types but they definitely have lots of (type 1) muscle, and clearly not the at-risk population to be are concerned about.

There's been actually a signal of increased coronary calcification rates in ultra-distance runners, and increased rate of a. fib. in the same group is not disputed much. I have a marathon runner with a very mild dyslipidemia who I sent for CABG in his mid-50s, and I know of another one who was "used" for a calibration of a new coronary calcium scanner and people didn't believe the results. 5 way bypass. Small signal, people are looking into this but I've been offering an admittedly weakly based recommendation of limiting weekly mileage to my patients for some time now, just like I've been advising about small but finite risk of sudden death with high-intensity exercise for years.

[BehindBlueI's]

Only because the big city PD Major crimes detective framed the question as,

Or maybe the Aspie didn't get the joke. :eek:

No, robberies do not "often" go to entangled fights. They are very seldom fights of any kind. That's something you've pulled out of your ass based on imagination of how crimes happen. In reality, robbery is typically done most often by threat alone (ie brandishing a weapon, passing a note, verbal threats). Next up is a surprise attack. Running up behind someone and punching them, for example. This is much more common with youthful offenders and groups. Fights do happen, rarely, but seldom what you'd call entangled fighting. I'd put the over/under at 1% and take under. I can think of one off the top of my head in the past 5 years, and it involved a mountain of a man who recently immigrated from Africa who didn't end the fight because he wasn't sure what he could legally do in America. Rapes are a not as much in my wheelhouse, but I've been involved in some robbery/sex crime combo investigations as a detective and responded to who knows how many as a uniformed officer. Again, rarely is there a physical fight to gain compliance. Threats and intimidation, what you could call "chemical assault" such as spiked drinks or extreme intoxication, etc.

As far as what fights are like, yeah, I know. I've been in a few. I've been badly hurt and badly hurt others. One fellow died of excited delirium afterward, resulting in my first wrongful death lawsuit and a grand jury subpoena to explain he wasn't beaten to death. I'm reasonably familiar with what violence and fights look like on the street. If you're physically able, obviously you should have some hand to hand skills. None of that affects the fact this whole premise is bullshit, as it's never either/or.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Who hates sluts?

Jesus christ no kidding

That's why I got instagram in the first place


Anyway for years I have been saying things like "if you think you're more likely to die by being attacked by thugs than being attacked by your own heart, you're either a drug dealer or a math illiterate."

BUT: I have a right to subject my body (specifically liver) to whatever I want. IMO there is something inherently different between the risk your hedonistic tendencies pose to you, and the risk others can pose when they choose to violate your rights. If we view the right to self-defense and its subset activities such as training in a pure numbers sense as it relates to your theoretical risk reduction and life extension, why are we only doing that with gun stuff?

The argument often comes up that there are plenty of jobs more dangerous than being a cop and most people around here (myself included) tend to reject it on the grounds that there is something different about accidental death vs. people actively trying to kill you. But if we're all just going to evaluate everything in terms of simple statistics, why aren't we putting "Thin Watery Line" backgrounds on commercial fishermen usernames and "Thin Leafy Line" on loggers? I mean up where I am at least, those are WAY more dangerous jobs, like orders of magnitude more dangerous.

Why? Because there is something different about being subjected to the intentional violence of others.

So yes, substance abuse notwithstanding, I agree that in general physical fitness is more important for 99.999% of us than gunfighting. And I put way more effort into physical fitness than gunfighty stuff myself and if my liver didn't weigh 25 pounds I'd probably look moderately trim. But I also believe that people have an inalienable right to treat their own bodies pretty much as they see fit, WHILE taking pretty much any steps they want to prevent others from having the ability to inflict their will upon them.


I admit this theoretical stance does not prevent me from laughing at people fatter than me. Or enviously rationalizing why other people are fitter than me (probably steroids).

[chl442]

There's been actually a signal of increased coronary calcification rates in ultra-distance runners, and increased rate of a. fib. in the same group is not disputed much. I have a marathon runner with a very mild dyslipidemia who I sent for CABG in his mid-50s, and I know of another one who was "used" for a calibration of a new coronary calcium scanner and people didn't believe the results. 5 way bypass. Small signal, people are looking into this but I've been offering an admittedly weakly based recommendation of limiting weekly mileage to my patients for some time now, just like I've been advising about small but finite risk of sudden death with high-intensity exercise for years.
YVK,
I find this information intriguing. When you say limiting weekly miles , how specific are we talking here
? What would be your suggested guidelines? Outside of not smoking , being diabetic or having bad genes what do you think is key to staying off the Cath table ?

[RevolverRob]

No, robberies do not "often" go to entangled fights. They are very seldom fights of any kind. That's something you've pulled out of your ass based on imagination of how crimes happen. In reality, robbery is typically done most often by threat alone (ie brandishing a weapon, passing a note, verbal threats). Next up is a surprise attack.

This is actually a good point. I forgot my own stats on this particular question. I've been tracking muggings in my own neighborhood in Chicago for nearly 3-years. They virtually ALL follow the same pattern. Implied/threat of a weapon, minimal physical contact. Surprise attack happens somewhat more rarely (about 1 out of 10 incidents).

Today was a rarity, we had a mugging at 3:30 this afternoon. Victim surrendered the goods then took off running - suspect shot at the running victim.


If you're physically able, obviously you should have some hand to hand skills. None of that affects the fact this whole premise is bullshit, as it's never either/or.

We're basically on the same page here. My point is only that in terms of time management (which a lot of people, including myself, suck at). Guns don't solve problems, brains do. Exercising your brain and having a body you can trust is frankly more important than draw time or shooting well. BUT if you find yourself in that 0.01% outlier event, you're definitely gonna be happy you spent time dryfiring and practicing your drawstroke so it didn't suck. Just like you might be happy you worked on cardio, when you don't die of a heart attack at 55.

And again, I don't want to paint it as an either/or - but for some folks it might be. Frankly going to the range and shooting regularly starts to border on a luxury depending on time and access. It's actually not that much different for going to the gym either.


Jesus christ no kidding

That's why I got instagram in the first place


Anyway for years I have been saying things like "if you think you're more likely to die by being attacked by thugs than being attacked by your own heart, you're either a drug dealer or a math illiterate."

BUT: I have a right to subject my body (specifically liver) to whatever I want. IMO there is something inherently different between the risk your hedonistic tendencies pose to you, and the risk others can pose when they choose to violate your rights. If we view the right to self-defense and its subset activities such as training in a pure numbers sense as it relates to your theoretical risk reduction and life extension, why are we only doing that with gun stuff?

The argument often comes up that there are plenty of jobs more dangerous than being a cop and most people around here (myself included) tend to reject it on the grounds that there is something different about accidental death vs. people actively trying to kill you. But if we're all just going to evaluate everything in terms of simple statistics, why aren't we putting "Thin Watery Line" backgrounds on commercial fishermen usernames and "Thin Leafy Line" on loggers? I mean up where I am at least, those are WAY more dangerous jobs, like orders of magnitude more dangerous.

Why? Because there is something different about being subjected to the intentional violence of others.

So yes, substance abuse notwithstanding, I agree that in general physical fitness is more important for 99.999% of us than gunfighting. And I put way more effort into physical fitness than gunfighty stuff myself and if my liver didn't weigh 25 pounds I'd probably look moderately trim. But I also believe that people have an inalienable right to treat their own bodies pretty much as they see fit, WHILE taking pretty much any steps they want to prevent others from having the ability to inflict their will upon them.

I admit this theoretical stance does not prevent me from laughing at people fatter than me. Or enviously rationalizing why other people are fitter than me (probably steroids).

Dude - why you gotta go injecting sense into this thread?

[Maple Syrup Actual]

You're in a bad way when a not-fit-to-drive foreigner is the voice of reason, man

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[orionz06]

And again, I don't want to paint it as an either/or - but for some folks it might be. Frankly going to the range and shooting regularly starts to border on a luxury depending on time and access. It's actually not that much different for going to the gym either.

Buy it'd not... If someone is too big they don't have to decide to shoot or gym, they can shoot and eat less. They're ALWAYS gonna eat. Whether or not they do it according to a specific goal is on them. Doesn't mean it's easy but we're all given the same number of hours in a day and we all seem to be able to stay fed and not die so it's not unreasonable to assume that anyone has the time to do things better than they are now.


Adherence is a bitch though and old habits die haaaaard.

[blues]

You're in a bad way when a not-fit-to-drive foreigner is the voice of reason, man

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https://youtu.be/_u5A0H6PkqE

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Well I wasn't going to do two workouts

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[txdpd]

Guns are like gym memberships.

If fat kids weren't buying things they didn't need and subsidizing the true cost, you would have to pay a lot more for those cool toys that you didn't need either.

A Colt Peacemaker cost a cowboy a month's pay. A Glock is a week's salary at current median pay.

We should all hug a fat kid for helping us have affordable firearms.

[Ed L]

Trying to turn this topic into either go to the gym or carry a gun is utterly ridiculous.

Agreed, it is a false argument.


People would also be better if if they got down off their high horses and refrained from lecturing other people about their lifestyle choices.


Exactly right.

And if some posters dropped the holier than thou, pedantic attitudes.

People may be overweight for a number of reasons including genetics, metabolism, bad diet, overeating, no exercise, medicines that make them gain weight, and a combination of these over time.

Losing the weight may involve more time, commitment, activities and regularity and consistency than the person is ready or willing to commit to. They may not enjoy it, they may love eating and eating the types of foods and amounts of foods that are not conducive to maintaining or losing weight; they may hate exercising. This is their personal choice of living their life on their terms.

People also may have injuries and physical issues that limit exercising.

However, crime and violence is about someone imposing their own choices, injuries, suffering, trauma, fear upon you. Many people find this more frightening and traumatic than looming health issues.

They reject someone else being able to impose this upon them or make choices as to whether they or their loved ones will live or die or suffer physical and psychological injuries or be deprived of their possessions. They find taking the measures to secure against this and maximize the chance of protecting themself. Thus owning firearms and training makes them feel better, more secure, and becomes a hobby in itself. Further, they may even enjoy shooting.

Compare the activity level and time requirements of taking a decent 2 day shooting course and then practicing once or twice a month with the type of exercise schedule and dieting requirements with losing a lot of weight and keeping it off. Is it any surprise that some people might find firearms training and practice easier and more enjoyable and easier to implement into their life? Imagine if it were the other way around. Then we would have a bunch of fit, in shape people who could barely shoot.

Finally , as you get older certain physical activities become tougher. This past October I attended an ISR Matrix http://isrmatrix.com/ summit, where we spent 5 days doing various unarmed physical self defense and arrest and control tactics. We spent about two days doing clinching with cloth and a good amount of time doing gun disarms. This wore on my hands, which have gotten progressively worse over the years. It has been 10 years since I attended one of their functions. I had an awesome time, but wound up needing to go to a hand doctor and getting cortesone injections in three different fingers. The summit did not cause the hand problems. I've had hand problems that have But it certainly did aggravate them. Nevertheless, I will be attending the ISR Matrix summit next year, and let the doctor have the injections ready.

[RevolverRob]

You're in a bad way when a not-fit-to-drive foreigner is the voice of reason, man

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Dude. I forever want you to be my voice of reason. When you come to Chicago, I'm taking you for steak and scotch.


Doesn't mean it's easy but we're all given the same number of hours in a day and we all seem to be able to stay fed and not die

Well...I dunno man. Some days I totally forget to eat. But I generally agree that every one can take steps to be more healthy overall. Eating better/less, walking/moving more, and still have time to shoot. I prioritize my budget differently than most folks, and have reduced my annual ammo consumption to what many here might consider blasphemously low (~1000k rounds a year, not including training classes). But I basically go to the gym 3-5 times a week for an hour and dryfire 2-times a week for 30 minutes. And I do that while walking, chewing bubble gum, and doing a dissertation.

Thinking about all that...I suppose I'll amend my previous statement. It really isn't an either/or statement. Though I have definitely reduced my live fire time, I supplement with dryfire.

[orionz06]

People view weight loss as something they need to work at and it's true but the work is at the table. It's hard work to not fuck up what you eat and how much of it you eat. If it were easy folks wouldn't be upset.

And FWIW, I've been all over the map doing the work to not be fat and being a lazy fuck and taking the easy route.




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[Maple Syrup Actual]

Dude. I forever want you to be my voice of reason. When you come to Chicago, I'm taking you for steak and scotch.





Sold. I don't have specific plans but any time I'm driving out that way I go to Chicago. Now I have a reason other than general nostalgia.

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[RevolverRob]

People view weight loss as something they need to work at and it's true but the work is at the table. It's hard work to not fuck up what you eat and how much of it you eat. If it were easy folks wouldn't be upset.

And FWIW, I've been all over the map doing the work to not be fat and being a lazy fuck and taking the easy route.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm in the exact same boat. I have no problem telling people straight up, it's easier to shoot bullets at targets than it is to put together and maintain a healthy lifestyle.

I know that some folks seem real hung up on the idea that it is an either/or proposition. They're right, you can be healthy(ier) AND shoot bullets. Or you can be unhealthy AND shoot bullets. One does not preclude the other. But one definitively increases your risk of an early death and is almost completely avoidable by doing the work. That is an either/or statement. You choose to do the work and maintain it or not.

[Robert Mitchum]

Anyone who wants to start a healthier life style that has injuries and is not sure how to get started.

This guy has a ton of free info on his channel...
https://www.youtube.com/user/JDCav24/videos


Your Workouts are Hurting You! (HERE’S WHY)
https://youtu.be/O_LNwX4C1wg

https://youtu.be/nWsoIgHzsEM
How to Fix Wrist Pain | Working Out (6 WAYS!)

https://youtu.be/AD6YTTb5WQY
How to Fix a Stiff Neck in Seconds

https://youtu.be/v3ZcN-XXQ1E
My 8 Biggest Workout & Nutrition Mistakes

6 Minute Fat Loss Workout (BEGINNER | INT | ADVANCED)
https://youtu.be/OP1p_n_fbAA

[Nephrology]

There's been actually a signal of increased coronary calcification rates in ultra-distance runners, and increased rate of a. fib. in the same group is not disputed much. I have a marathon runner with a very mild dyslipidemia who I sent for CABG in his mid-50s, and I know of another one who was "used" for a calibration of a new coronary calcium scanner and people didn't believe the results. 5 way bypass. Small signal, people are looking into this but I've been offering an admittedly weakly based recommendation of limiting weekly mileage to my patients for some time now, just like I've been advising about small but finite risk of sudden death with high-intensity exercise for years.

Interesting, and totally plausible there is that link. Probably not enough ultra-marathonners for there to be much of a big signal to begin with. Still, individuals like that fall way outside the norm to begin with - I think most people will be lucky to get in the 150min of recommended CV exercise per week as is, let alone a regular marathon - certainly not an ultra-marathon.

I have become a runner against my will, more or less (all I have time for these days), but I am satisfied with ~20 miles/week. Could never imagine running 26 at once. I always remind people that the very first person to run a marathon died at the end...

[peterb]

http://www.velonews.com/cycling-to-extremes-heart-health-and-endurance-sports

This recently generated a lot of discussion in the cycling community.
For older athletes trying to maintain high levels of fitness, one of the the risk factors seems to be not getting enough rest.

High levels of fitness and being healthy are not necessarily the same thing.

[voodoo_man]

Interesting, and totally plausible there is that link. Probably not enough ultra-marathonners for there to be much of a big signal to begin with. Still, individuals like that fall way outside the norm to begin with - I think most people will be lucky to get in the 150min of recommended CV exercise per week as is, let alone a regular marathon - certainly not an ultra-marathon.

I have become a runner against my will, more or less (all I have time for these days), but I am satisfied with ~20 miles/week. Could never imagine running 26 at once. I always remind people that the very first person to run a marathon died at the end...
It is all about training, as it always is.

Should you expect yourself or anyone to be able to run a marathon out of the blue with zero prep work? No that is insane.

When I ran my first marathon in high school I was training for two full months before that day by one of my track coaches. He was absolutely adamant about the running schedule and distance/time requirements. I remember specifically running back to back days of 15 miles each day and thinking I was going to die from all sorts of issues. You train that feeling out of yourself and if given the right amount of training, time to heal and proper diet the human body can achieve amazing things.

Since we are on the topic, I have found that knowing where your personal limitations are and what needs to happen in order for you to meet and or break them is extremely important. We gloss over this as kids since we don't think about it.

When is the last time you were truly exhausted. Not like mentally tired after a long day at work or whatever. I am talking about not being able to move, not being able to think about anything other than laying there and being thankful you can breath air without any serious issue. For most people that is unimaginable, they probably not only don't remember the last time but do not actively seek it out. The recovery from something like that is very difficult and may take weeks if you arent used to that level of pain. Sort of like how people will feel like crap for a while after a good fight, especially if they don't train for that fight.

We should all strive to meet that level so we know our limits.

[FOG]

Run and Gun Biathlons are good testing grounds for whether an individual has a decent balance of fitness and marksmanship when fatigued. There's a little thread about them in the Competition section.

Life's a juggling act. Which piece you're likely to drop is about priorities. Personally, my spiritual well-being is top. Everything else falls in to place for me when I get that part right.

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

It is all about training, as it always is.

Should you expect yourself or anyone to be able to run a marathon out of the blue with zero prep work? No that is insane.

When I ran my first marathon in high school I was training for two full months before that day by one of my track coaches. He was absolutely adamant about the running schedule and distance/time requirements. I remember specifically running back to back days of 15 miles each day and thinking I was going to die from all sorts of issues. You train that feeling out of yourself and if given the right amount of training, time to heal and proper diet the human body can achieve amazing things.

Since we are on the topic, I have found that knowing where your personal limitations are and what needs to happen in order for you to meet and or break them is extremely important. We gloss over this as kids since we don't think about it.

When is the last time you were truly exhausted. Not like mentally tired after a long day at work or whatever. I am talking about not being able to move, not being able to think about anything other than laying there and being thankful you can breath air without any serious issue. For most people that is unimaginable, they probably not only don't remember the last time but do not actively seek it out. The recovery from something like that is very difficult and may take weeks if you arent used to that level of pain. Sort of like how people will feel like crap for a while after a good fight, especially if they don't train for that fight.

We should all strive to meet that level so we know our limits.

You're right, and actually before I started running as much as I do now I couldn't imagine really going beyond 2 miles... now run 5 every other day. Previously I was obsessed with lifting and playing sports, with my runs being infrequent and no more than 2 miles at a time, probably under 6 per week total. I think I had justified it as trying to not be in calorie deficit so I could bulk up, or something dumb like that.

I should have rephrased that as of the finite amount of time I have at hand, I couldn't imagine investing it in training for a marathon :P

Also agreed that pushing your limits is an important part of seeking excellence in anything you choose to pursue. Using them to set your pace is important as well. Don't sprint the first 10 miles of a marathon if you want to finish the last 16.

edit: I also once thought I wasn't a "science person," and once told my mom explicitly that there was "no way" I'd ever get into medical school...

[rjohnson4405]

I don't go around telling people if they're not in shape, the gun part doesn't make much sense, but I do believe it within reason (which are subjective I realize).

But, interesting question:

When someone chooses to carry a hi-point mexican carry and practice point shooting loaded with glaser safety slugs everyone here would have no qualms calling them out?

When someone chooses (again, within reason) to not get into an the kind of shape to help them in a violent confrontation why do people have a problem with calling them out?

People have a right to choose their lifestyle, and whether or not to carry/what to carry. Why is calling them out on one wrong, but the other isn't? I don't think I have a good answer yet either way.

[Tamara]

Sold. I don't have specific plans but any time I'm driving out that way I go to Chicago. Now I have a reason other than general nostalgia.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Indianapolis ain't much farther. You could get a story out of it.

[Nephrology]

When someone chooses (again, within reason) to not get into an the kind of shape to help them in a violent confrontation why do people have a problem with calling them out?

People have a right to choose their lifestyle, and whether or not to carry/what to carry. Why is calling them out on one wrong, but the other isn't? I don't think I have a good answer yet either way.

I am not in the telling other people what to do business, but I think the general gestalt (and MO behind this thread) was this: if you are carrying a gun specifically to reduce your all cause risk of mortality without addressing more common causes of death (i.e. metabolic syndrome), then your risk calculus is a poor one.

That said I don't think that anybody on this particular forum is interested in guns purely because of their utility in self-protection, which makes this whole argument sort of a red herring. I would wager that for the vast majority of us, firearms are first and foremost a hobby/sport/passion and then by natural extension a means of self protection, which reduces individual all-cause mortality risk by some percentage (inarguably a higher percentage for LEOs/military).

Which came first chronologically isn't as important as what keeps us spending so much time on this orange website... the fact that guns are awesome, of course.

[BehindBlueI's]

Indianapolis ain't much farther. You could get a story out of it.

This. We could have our wives meet and just frantically transcribe the conversation.

[rjohnson4405]

...

That said I don't think that anybody on this particular forum is interested in guns purely because of their utility in self-protection, which makes this whole argument sort of a red herring. I would wager that for the vast majority of us, firearms are first and foremost a hobby/sport/passion and then by natural extension a means of self protection, which reduces individual all-cause mortality risk by some percentage (inarguably a higher percentage for LEOs/military)...

While I do agree with that, I know lots of people that own quite a few guns and thinks they are awesome but never carries them. I guess we would have to differentiate between a hobbyist and a self-defense oriented person (or at least which they were being at the time the statement was made), which I certainly have no desire to do. Thanks for the response, helps me think.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Indianapolis ain't much farther. You could get a story out of it.

double sold

[Drang]

I should register fitness-forum.com and fatass-forum.com, but I'm probably the only person that finds redirected domain name "jokes" funny.

www.rickroll-forum.com...

[Erik]

But if we're all just going to evaluate everything in terms of simple statistics, why aren't we putting "Thin Watery Line" backgrounds on commercial fishermen usernames and "Thin Leafy Line" on loggers?

I would totally rock the "Thin Watery Line" username if it wasn't for the stolen valor issue. I suppose a "Thin Papery Line" could still pull chicks though...

[Glenn E. Meyer]

First - an aphorism:

Eat your vegetables so you can live long enough to be one

I agree with the sentiment that gun training and more extreme fitness are not necessarily highly related. The thousands of successful defensive gun uses in the USA are not performed by physical titans. Actually, they are not performed by well trained gun folks.

That being said, and being committed to training, I have to say my days of more physical H2H training are over. So are my days of heavy weight lifting and using my knees. Medical problems have short circuited them. Thus, I do exercising a few days a week to maintain general fitness and strength. Let's not do curls with 185 lbs but some reps with 60, same for presses, etc. Walking at a sedate pace as arthritis has fried my knees. Hence, my protests over IDPA's 10 point penalty rule discussed elsewhere.

Ed's hands - similar story. I take a knife class. I come back from the weekend and my wife and I are to go out for dinner. Well, my hand starts to swell up. It did take a mild ouch, which I can see. So off we go to the med clinic. Seems I broke a blood vessel in my hand and the blood infiltrated into the tissue causing a reaction. Here's some anti-inflammatory meds. You need to go watch for the decomposition of the blood scaring and freezing your tendons. Thus, you need to wear this thing over your hand and forearm and go to a form of physical therapy. That was sticking your hand into a box gadget of very hot sand that is agitated and beat on your hand to prevent the freezing. Do that for a few weeks. Annoying. It was amusing going to work and have people ask whether I fell down and went boom. Telling the denizens of the liberal arts that it was from a knifing fighting class was fun.

Do I get benefit from the firearms and self-defense oriented training? Yep, on an old couple stroll - I'm fairly sure that I deter a criminal interrogation of us and perhaps attempted robbery with proper attitude and posture (and subtle indications of Glockitis). My analysis of the incident is was confirmed as reasonable speculation and action by a well known p-f member. Could the potential incident be handle by Glenn "The Dragon Fist" Meyer. I don't think so.

Just my thoughts. Going to the Y for my less extreme workout later today. But I might also eat some Passover candy I bought last night. One minute off my life, avoiding vegetable status.

[Default.mp3]

People would also be better if if they got down off their high horses and refrained from lecturing other people about their lifestyle choices.Is buying an XD a lifestyle choice? What if I chose to train exclusively with Tactical Response?

[YVK]

YVK,
I find this information intriguing. When you say limiting weekly miles , how specific are we talking here
? What would be your suggested guidelines? Outside of not smoking , being diabetic or having bad genes what do you think is key to staying off the Cath table ?

There is no solid data on this. The a. fib risk is seen in long distance, marathon and ultra-long distance, runners and coronary calcium risk is just a signal. I have arbitrarily set a 25 miles/week recommendation based on nothing but talking to my colleagues cardiologists who were also long distance runners and who said they were planning to conduct a research on this subject. Nothing has been done yet, and methodologically it would be a tough research to do well. I generally try not to offer a generic advice to my patients and look at their individual risks, both for a. fib and CAD, before suggesting exercise limits. It is beyond any doubt that all levels of aerobic exercise, from mild to intense, improve CV outcomes; it is just that strenuous exercise does have a very small risk of immediate sudden death or MI.

As far as staying off the cath table, it is just a common sense stuff. Regular aerobic exercise, balanced caloric intake, reasonable body weight, modest alcohol intake, normal blood pressure and cholesterol levels. I do recommend some weights, time permitting, even if the CV data is lacking. Note I didn't say ideal body weight; there is a decent data showing that overweight but aerobically fit people have very close CV risks as normal weight people. There are actually different types of fat on a cellular level, some better than others. Note I didn't say no alcohol, this has been well described as well. There are environmental stressors that can increase risk of coronary plaque rupture, notably mental stress and infiuenza. So chill and take your flu shots.

I put BP and cholesterol in bold because I see this mistake done by middle aged man all the time. Five years ago in a span of three days in February I had to deal with four heart attacks in athletic middle aged man; all events happened during or after their routine workouts. Three of them in one day. One died, one had a bypass, and two I stented. I still remember that day vividly.
Those who survived couldn't understand how their diet and exercise, and all were in great shape, didn't protect them. All had clear conventional risk factors (rare cigar smoking, lipids and BP) that went unaddressed until that day.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Just an amusing aside - a lawyer friend who is heavy, played handball with vigor. His doctor told him that he knew when the friend would die (handball time). So my friend says - I stopped playing handball and thus he doesn't know.

About cholesterol - my mom produced tons of it from some genetic fluke and so do I. So I get put on the statins - guess what I get the extreme muscle side effects. They once sent me to the ER because I had a consistent sharp chest pain. Nothing with the heart. My cardiologist wanted to cath me again (I already have - truth - one stent) and been fine since. I said - I'll pass, I think it is the meds as the pain was nothing like stent time (when I saw the grim reaper). I would get out of bed and couldn't stand on my ankles for awhile (the statins). A discarded doctor told me to take red yeast rice (what do I know) as it helps chol. levels. Turned out it was a natural statin and lit me up again. Asshole, he's dumped.

Fish oil and diet and exercise - what will be will be. So there is a new drug for $17K a pop. Great.

[txdpd]

There is no solid data on this. The a. fib risk is seen in long distance, marathon and ultra-long distance, runners and coronary calcium risk is just a signal. I have arbitrarily set a 25 miles/week recommendation based on nothing but talking to my colleagues cardiologists who were also long distance runners and who said they were planning to conduct a research on this subject. Nothing has been done yet, and methodologically it would be a tough research to do well. I generally try not to offer a generic advice to my patients and look at their individual risks, both for a. fib and CAD, before suggesting exercise limits. It is beyond any doubt that all levels of aerobic exercise, from mild to intense, improve CV outcomes; it is just that strenuous exercise does have a very small risk of immediate sudden death or MI.

As far as staying off the cath table, it is just a common sense stuff. Regular aerobic exercise, balanced caloric intake, reasonable body weight, modest alcohol intake, normal blood pressure and cholesterol levels. I do recommend some weights, time permitting, even if the CV data is lacking. Note I didn't say ideal body weight; there is a decent data showing that overweight but aerobically fit people have very close CV risks as normal weight people. There are actually different types of fat on a cellular level, some better than others. Note I didn't say no alcohol, this has been well described as well. There are environmental stressors that can increase risk of coronary plaque rupture, notably mental stress and infiuenza. So chill and take your flu shots.

I put BP and cholesterol in bold because I see this mistake done by middle aged man all the time. Five years ago in a span of three days in February I had to deal with four heart attacks in athletic middle aged man; all events happened during or after their routine workouts. Three of them in one day. One died, one had a bypass, and two I stented. I still remember that day vividly.
Those who survived couldn't understand how their diet and exercise, and all were in great shape, didn't protect them. All had clear conventional risk factors (rare cigar smoking, lipids and BP) that went unaddressed until that day.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11676965

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/123/1/13.short

[Trukinjp13]

While there are a lot of loud morons on youtube. I really like Alan Thrall. Yes it is more lifting then running in place. But he is legit and has really good advice on form and function. I own guns to defend myself and my family. But I grew up shooting in the backwoods. It is a hobby/food on the table thing for me. There are quite a few hunters who also need to stay in shape. When you are humping gear around a mountain to kill a elk or bear you need some conditioning.

[Duelist]

What should we do at work then?

I should reach out to more potential internship hosts, grade papers, and do more of my own homework.

You know, the stuff that looks like work.

[orionz06]

That said I don't think that anybody on this particular forum is interested in guns purely because of their utility in self-protection, which makes this whole argument sort of a red herring. I would wager that for the vast majority of us, firearms are first and foremost a hobby/sport/passion and then by natural extension a means of self protection, which reduces individual all-cause mortality risk by some percentage (inarguably a higher percentage for LEOs/military).

Guns are golf for many people.

[Totem Polar]

I would totally rock the "Thin Watery Line" username if it wasn't for the stolen valor issue. I suppose a "Thin Papery Line" could still pull chicks though...


Telling the denizens of the liberal arts that it was from a knifing fighting class was fun...

Glenn & me: "Wafer-Thin Academia Line." We spilled the same plasma, in the same miasma...

:D

[JohnO]

Guns are golf for many people.

Exactly what I tell people. My version of golf. The camaraderie with like minded individuals whether they be regular training partners or someone new you bump into at the club is very important. I enjoy getting together with the folks at our monthly clinic as much for the conversation as the shooting.

[YVK]

J


Fish oil and diet and exercise - what will be will be. So there is a new drug for $17K a pop. Great.

Myalgias are drug and dose dependent. If you already had a stent, you're in advanced atherosclerosis group. Try every statin in lowest doses possible before putting an x on them. 200-300 mg of coenzyme Q10 anecdotally help some patients tolerate statins better. One of the newer drugs' manufacturer's offers a significant promotional discount for a year with some commercial insurances, check that out. A lot of recent fish oil studies showed no benefit.

[SteveB]

Come on man, it's 2017. We've got #NoSlutShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoSlutShaming) from 2015, #NoFatShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoFatShaming) from 2016, this year we're at #NoGunRangeShaming (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=NoGunRangeShaming)


Who hates sluts?

Well, fat sluts...

[cclaxton]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ; Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?
It's a free country. We shouldn't be telling people what to do with their lives.

Like the elderly, obese people can't defend themselves from an attack very easily because of their vulnerabilities. A firearm becomes more valuable and arguably more necessary for the vulnerable. I remember a story from 20 years ago about an outspoken Lesbian activist, who had been beaten so many times she ended up in a wheelchair. That is when she started carrying a pistol and became an advocate for concealed carry rights.

Who are we to judge? Now, if I have to pay for their healthcare...that is another matter.
Cody

[Greg]

15376

Wear Camo = Problem Solved!

[JAD]

Who hates sluts?

Usually other sluts.

[blues]

That said I don't think that anybody on this particular forum is interested in guns purely because of their utility in self-protection, which makes this whole argument sort of a red herring. I would wager that for the vast majority of us, firearms are first and foremost a hobby/sport/passion and then by natural extension a means of self protection, which reduces individual all-cause mortality risk by some percentage (inarguably a higher percentage for LEOs/military).

If the membership of P-F is a bell shaped curve, then I am much closer to the end that apparently nobody on this site inhabits. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy guns and shooting and have since the first time I picked one up and fired it. But it has been primarily a tool rather than a hobby or recreational activity for me...and mostly remains that way today despite the enjoyment I derive from it.

I continue to enjoy shooting and keeping up my skills by shooting at my friends and neighbors ranges and doing my LEOSA quals with the sheriff's department. So, while I may not embody the typical P-F member I hope that I'll be allowed to remain if for no other reason than embracing diversity. ;)

[NEPAKevin]

I thought one of the prerequisites of being a slut is having no shame?

[Suvorov]

It's a free country. We shouldn't be telling people what to do with their lives.

Like the elderly, obese people can't defend themselves from an attack very easily because of their vulnerabilities. A firearm becomes more valuable and arguably more necessary for the vulnerable. I remember a story from 20 years ago about an outspoken Lesbian activist, who had been beaten so many times she ended up in a wheelchair. That is when she started carrying a pistol and became an advocate for concealed carry rights.

Who are we to judge? Now, if I have to pay for their healthcare...that is another matter.
Cody

Some very good points brought up here! I do take issue with the last (which has been brought up before). The fact is that with Single Payer, Obama Care, Tump Care, Rand Care, or the system we all know and love, we DO pay for their healthcare already. But we also pay for motorcyclist's healthcare, alcoholics healthcare, recreational drug user's healthcare, those with no healthcares' healthcare, risky sexual behavior's healthcare, and everyone else's healthcare - so it is kind of a moot point.

[txdpd]

I thought one of the prerequisites of being a slut is having no shame?

Not dicking around with sluts, will prevent more life problems for men than fitness and guns combined.

[RJ]

I only want to live 162 more days.

Seriously. I need like a scratch pad. I always feel empty when the curtain goes up, and I totally forgot who and what I was supposed to be mad at.*


* Edit: Perhaps that is part of the cunning plan...Hmmm...Hmmm...:cool:

[Nephrology]

15376

Wear Camo = Problem Solved!

Fun fact - I was the person who originally pulled these photos off the depths of an airsoft forum and distributed them on a humor forum over 10 years ago, to give birth to the meme that we now all know and love

[Greg]

Fun fact - I was the person who originally pulled these photos off the depths of an airsoft forum and distributed them on a humor forum over 10 years ago, to give birth to the meme that we now all know and love

That makes you an Interwebs Demi-God or something.


We're on page 14 already. When does the food fight start?

[Robinson]

But it has been primarily a tool rather than a hobby or recreational activity for me...and mostly remains that way today despite the enjoyment I derive from it.

Your use of the word primarily means you are probably not far out of the norm here. The original statement you quoted made use of the word purely. :)

[blues]

Your use of the word primarily means you are probably not far out of the norm here. The original statement you quoted made use of the word purely. :)

That's why I chose the words I did. I didn't want to make it seem as if I derived nothing further from the pursuit beyond the purely utilitarian. But the truth remains that I'd still be an outlier far over to one side of the diagram in comparison with most all of you on the other. Somebody'd probably look at the graph and ask "who farted?"

[blues]

Not dicking around with sluts, will prevent more life problems for men than fitness and guns combined.

Now you tell me! (But on the bright side, that ship has long since left port.)

[txdpd]

Now you tell me! (But on the bright side, that ship has long since left port.)

But the again we would have had to find real jobs. There's not much need for the popo without guys doing stupid stuff for/because of women.

Disregard my last #sluttyjobsecurity (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=sluttyjobsecurity)

[orionz06]

We're on page 14 already. When does the food fight start?

It doesn't, everyone ate all the food and pizzas are on the way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tamara]

That makes you an Interwebs Demi-God or something.

No shit. That's internet royalty right there. :o

[blues]

But the again we would have had to find real jobs. There's not much need for the popo without guys doing stupid stuff for/because of women.

Disregard my last #sluttyjobsecurity (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=sluttyjobsecurity)

Most of the guys I was doing all that stupid shit with were carrying badges just like I was.

On one infamous occasion, (after some local barflies (allegedly nurses) stole our money off the bar precipitating a near melee), one guy from ATF even had to grease a local sergeant to keep him from writing up a report in which we were named.

Naturally, I didn't know that this had occurred until after the fact at which point I became indignant. (Inebriated, but indignant.) He made me promise not to make waves as he described his tenuous position with work as being "at the foot of the cross".

Ah, the good old days. I'm amazed to have survived. (To bring it back around to mortal peril.)

[Nephrology]

That makes you an Interwebs Demi-God or something.


We're on page 14 already. When does the food fight start?

Arguably the pinnacle of my achievement; it's really all been downhill from there.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

That's pretty wild that we have you to thank for that. I agree, that's Internet royalty status.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Hambo]

That's pretty wild that we have you to thank for that. I agree, that's Internet royalty status.

I don't know that "thank" is the right word. I'm just happy that now I know whose ass to kick every time I see the pic of that fat bloated idiot on a forum.

[Greg]

I don't know that "thank" is the right word. I'm just happy that now I know whose ass to kick every time I see the pic of that fat bloated idiot on a forum.

15382

Had to do it :cool:

[Joe in PNG]

We've still got a lot to learn about how the human body works, and there's a whole lot of bad information that creeps out.
Remember when all dietary fats were bad? Or eggs?
However, I'm sure the old advice of eat less, exercise, don't smoke, and don't drink excessively will continue to hold true.

[Hambo]

Had to do it :cool:

Nephrology's paying for it, you enjoy it. ;)

[blues]

I don't know that "thank" is the right word. I'm just happy that now I know whose ass to kick every time I see the pic of that fat bloated idiot on a forum.


15382

Had to do it :cool:

Not sure why but I thought it was a girl, Tom...then again I haven't looked beyond the surface.

In your honor, Hambo...


https://youtu.be/-SMJj8tz_w0

[FNFAN]

Not dicking around with sluts, will prevent more life problems for men than fitness and guns combined.

15385

[blues]

It's a yin-yang sorta thang.

[orionz06]

In fairness to that kid, he's probably a decent dude and it's rarely a child's fault when he's obese. He's got a tough road ahead of him.

He probably walked a lot playing airsoft too....

[blues]

He probably walked a lot playing airsoft too....

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdvWs75Rvofs6qHBahwBKbV6_BnghfI yoove57uvVIw1EZL2LZ



(Admit it, you've been lying in wait for this opportunity all day, haven't you? Well played! :cool:)

[orionz06]

[I MG]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRdvWs75Rvofs6qHBahwBKbV6_BnghfI yoove57uvVIw1EZL2LZ[/IMG]



(Admit it, you've been laying in wait for this opportunity all day, haven't you? Well played! :cool:)

Nah, I'm just such an asshole this stuff comes pretty much non-stop.

[Greg]

Yeah, us assholes just let it flow.

Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly....

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Not dicking around with sluts, will prevent more life problems for men than fitness and guns combined.

I totally agreed with this and then just now I reread it and realised that, while drunk as usual, I misunderstood the double negative.

I thought you were saying that a failure to dick around with sluts would cause problems and I was like "F yeah, this guy gets it. You don't want to have spent your whole life missing out on that action. Start early and drink your fill."

Now I'm rereading it and realising that you meant "dicking around with sluts will cause problems".



boo

[Nephrology]

I totally agreed with this and then just now I reread it and realised that, while drunk as usual, I misunderstood the double negative.

I thought you were saying that a failure to dick around with sluts would cause problems and I was like "F yeah, this guy gets it. You don't want to have spent your whole life missing out on that action. Start early and drink your fill."

Now I'm rereading it and realising that you meant "dicking around with sluts will cause problems".



boo

Nothing a little ceftriaxone & azithromycin can't fix!

[Maple Syrup Actual]

"What? Of course not. I was just working the door at the club when a guy with malaria bit me, so I need these for a few days."

[Totem Polar]

In fairness to that kid, he's probably a decent dude and it's rarely a child's fault when he's obese.

Good point. Who's fault is it that he's dressed like that, though?

[Ed L]

I don't go around telling people if they're not in shape, the gun part doesn't make much sense, but I do believe it within reason (which are subjective I realize).

But, interesting question:

When someone chooses to carry a hi-point mexican carry and practice point shooting loaded with glaser safety slugs everyone here would have no qualms calling them out?

When someone chooses (again, within reason) to not get into an the kind of shape to help them in a violent confrontation why do people have a problem with calling them out?

People have a right to choose their lifestyle, and whether or not to carry/what to carry. Why is calling them out on one wrong, but the other isn't? I don't think I have a good answer yet either way.

This is a serious firearm and training forum. If someone posts that they plan to carry out what is universally considered bad practice on multiple levels, we will point it out to them.

Likewise, if someone went to a serious exercise and bodybuilding forum and posted that they were going to carry out what was considered an ineffective or dangerous training regimen, the population on that forum would no doubt point out the issues with that.

The problem comes when there is a discussion on a bodybuilding forum about best workout practices and then someone smirks in that the posters would be better off getting a Glock and some training--which is in essence what happened in another thread that prompted this thread.

[45dotACP]

This thread has grown difficult to follow. TL;DR version... Nephrology is a meme god and something about misanthropist getting drunk and a misunderstanding regarding sluts....

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

Good point. Who's fault is it that he's dressed like that, though?

Man. I'm glad cameras weren't everywhere when I was a kid between the ages of 12-19. Or I'd most definitely be a meme out there now.

[blues]

This thread has grown difficult to follow. TL;DR version... Nephrology is a meme god and something about misanthropist getting drunk and a misunderstanding regarding sluts....


http://www.freedomscope.com/History/doctor_with_stethoscope.jpg

"Call me old fashioned but I'd recommend getting a Glock and some training."

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I just came back from the Y. My Glock went with me and back. I will shoot this weekend (unless it rains or I get sick). I loaded my gear for a carbine match this past weekend and woke up at midnight before the match with the indescribable horror. When I recovered I had to haul all that crap back to the atomic proof bunker of doom. Yes, this thread has petered out with the conclusion that being reasonably fit and reasonable trained is a good thing. Being at the bleeding edge of both doesn't fit lots of folks for pragmatic reasons and interests.

You know how folks say in the legal threads - If it is a good shoot, then XYZ doesn't matter. -- XYZ being some appearance or equipment issue.

Well, if it's a good shoot then whether you are fat doesn't matter. Discuss over donuts. At the gym, I saw an officer at the candy machine with a belly that was an order of magnitude beyond my fat old guy belly. He also had his mag pouches right in front of his pistol. Oh, well. Might be because of all the crap he had on his belt on the other side - taser, radio, cyclotron.

[Doc_Glock]

Fun fact - I was the person who originally pulled these photos off the depths of an airsoft forum and distributed them on a humor forum over 10 years ago, to give birth to the meme that we now all know and love

Are those people or mannequins?

[Nephrology]

Are those people or mannequins?

People. They were role-playing as a british Para, US Marine, and US army special forces or something. This was a while ago.

[Hambo]

In fairness to that kid, he's probably a decent dude and it's rarely a child's fault when he's obese. He's got a tough road ahead of him.

I really don't care that this kid is fat, but I do have a general dislike and disdain for airsoft wannabes. If you want to wear camo and carry a 240B, join the Marines. They'll be happy to overload you with gear and help you work on a weight problem. There just won't be any jelly donuts...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NP8y63Ms4o

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Didn't work out well for Gunny, did it? Perhaps a kinder, gentler jelly donut program would have benefited him. Anyway, Gunny went on to gun TV and endorsements. Vince is the Kingpin for the Daredevil show and plays the Wizard of Oz trying to get more modern weapons into Oz.

[RevolverRob]

There just won't be any jelly donuts...

No jelly donuts? No fuckin' way.

[NEPAKevin]

Now I'm rereading it and realising that you meant "dicking around with sluts will cause problems".


boo

And as far as being a longevity risk factor, some might argue that if you do not dick around with sluts, you might as well be dead.

http://i.imgur.com/18M26.jpg

[Ed L]

As I wrote before, this is a serious firearms forum where we discuss firearms related things such as the guns themselves, training, tactics, defensive use, analyze relevant news stories, etc.

However, every day all of us euphemistically dodge bullets in our everyday life, be it looking carefully before changing lanes or turning and thus avoiding what could be a terrible car accident, or tying your shoelaces so that you don't trip over them, fall, and possibly injure yourself. Because we are careful, these potential bad things don't even come close to happening, so they don't show up on our radars as a memorable event and even near misses don't rate online discussian.

[45dotACP]

As I wrote before, this is a serious firearms forum where we discuss firearms related things such as the guns themselves, training, tactics, defensive use, analyze relevant news stories, etc.

However, every day all of us euphemistically dodge bullets in our everyday life, be it looking carefully before changing lanes or turning and thus avoiding what could be a terrible car accident, or tying your shoelaces so that you don't trip over them, fall, and possibly injure yourself. Because we are careful, these potential bad things don't even come close to happening, so they don't show up on our radars as a memorable event and even near misses don't rate online discussian.
Serious? I wouldn't know about that...I mean unless you'd want to be redirected to the big gay chainsaw thread? ;)

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Joe in PNG]

And as far as being a longevity risk factor, some might argue that if you do not dick around with sluts, you might as well be dead.

Pick the wrong one, and you'll probably wish you were dead.

[txdpd]

blah blah blah.....while drunk as usual, I misunderstood the double negative....blah blah blah

Don't worry I don't make sense to sober people either. I thought it I was being clever by using "dicking around" in a sentence with sluts, no more thought was put in it than that.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

ne frettez pas* (that's an obscure Canadian frenglish joke, for anyone who's bilingual or even just bicurious)...I'm already drunk again so now I'm back to my original interpretation anyway.


*horrible frenglish rendition of "don't worry"...ne_pas is the french negation script, as in "je ne suis pas" (I am not) or "je n'ai pas" (I don't have); -ez is the "vous" or "formal, plural, or respectful you" conjugation of a regular verb such as, say, parler: to speak. Ne parlez pas = don't speak; if "fretter" was a french verb meaning "to fret", ne frettez pas would be "don't fret".

Of course no regular verb fretter, frettir, or frettre exists in french so if you plug it into google translate it won't make sense. Conceivably "fretter" might translate as "scrollwork" or something, i.e. the product of a fretting saw, I'm not sure. But it would definitely be gibberish if taken literally in french.

It does occur to me that "to fret" in English may well derive from the tense, fiddly, sawing or chiselling action of fretwork. Essentially fretting saws are engaged in finicky, precise erosion; that may directly relate to the etymology of "fret" as "worry", especially considering the alternate definition of "worry" which is "to gnaw". So there may be less of a leap from "fretter" as a french verb to "to fret" as an English verb than I thought when I started replying, casually beginning with "ne frettez pas" and then thinking it over as I typed the rest of the sentence. And knocked back a couple of ounces of rye. I'd continue but Erin has blurted "WHAT DOES A MASS SPECTROMETER DO?" from the kitchen and I feel that this is something I'd better investigate.

[Totem Polar]

No reason, just made me think of this thread:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg9mmbnLd44


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vg9mmbnLd44

[Wondering Beard]

ne frettez pas* (that's an obscure Canadian frenglish joke, for anyone who's bilingual or even just bicurious)..

I wonder if I should worry about the fact that I understood that phrase before the whole explanation.

Many years ago, when driving across the river from Ottawa, I found out that I got understood when using Frenglish but not when using French.

[NEPAKevin]

Pick the wrong one, and you'll probably wish you were dead.

I once knew a guy who said that his grandfather, on his death bed, said to him "Bruce.... never let the little guy do the thinking for the big guy." OTOH, lots of things less fun can get you dead too. Take stupid for example. You don't even have to be stupid for stupid to kill you.

[ubervic]

Given the national issue of an overweight population and the associated,life altering health consequences , I pose the following query devoid of snark or BS ;

Should firearm skill at arms and training thereof take precedence over proper dieting and exercise ,given a specific one vs the other choice? Should someone who's at risk of health problems due to being overweight put aside the range visit and hit the gym instead?

This type of question can and should be expanded to apply beyond the relative value/benefit of fitness and diet only.

I drive a relatively short 3.8 miles to and from work each day. This morning, during my regular commute, I witnessed the aftermath of two vehicle collision scenarios plus a stranded motorist with a disabled vehicle. Unusual? Yes, but much more common than violent crime. Thus, one might reasonably and logically conclude that a well-prepared individual who commutes daily should be more concerned about and training/practicing/preparing for car failures and/or collisions, yet many do not.

In the end, humans are drawn towards what they are drawn towards, and many will rationalize the pursuit of that which they are drawn to all day long.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I will opine that the focus on gun usage and violent crime is due to our built in responses to threats to dominance and personal territory. We must respond to a personalized and sentient agency that attacks us. If we succeed that move us up the dominance chain or at least maintains our position. We have built in dopamine rewards for engaging dangerous opponents and defeating them.

Forces of nature and accidents, your successful diet plan - lack that component of personal power. If I tell you I successfully completed a course or match, that is an indication of dominant status. If I tell you I drove safely or watched my weight. Well, isn't that special.

[mmc45414]

Fun fact - I was the person who originally pulled these photos off the depths of an airsoft forum and distributed them on a humor forum over 10 years ago, to give birth to the meme that we now all know and love
I even turned it into a decal for my gunsafe (my wife has a poster printing business and has roll feed printers).
15432

[RevolverRob]

Thus, one might reasonably and logically conclude that a well-prepared individual who commutes daily should be more concerned about and training/practicing/preparing for car failures and/or collisions, yet many do not.

Indeed, they should.

I personally, cannot fathom, how people with driver's licenses and cars drive without:

1) Knowing how to change a flat tire.
2) Proper insurance
3) AAA Membership (particularly if you don't know how to change a flat)
4) Jumper cables
5) First Aid Kit
6) Emergency supplies such as a flashlight, a blanket, and water
7) (If you live someplace with winter) an ice-scraper, snow-shovel/entrenching tool, and de-icer.\
8) Windshield washer fluid

If you open the trunk of our well-maintained 6-year old Japanese-built compact hatchback with less than 60k miles on it (i.e., an exemplification of a car that is the least likely to break down). You will find all of the above stored in the trunk. All of that, plus tools, an umbrella, and a portable air-compressor all fit in a space age tote this size - https://www.uline.com/Product/ProductDetailRootItem?modelnumber=S-133 - Or the size of the standard US Postal Service totes you see regularly. Does it take up trunk space? You bet. But I don't cruise around unprepared. Even more tools and spare parts in my British car...because let's be fair

BUT - I have a lot of strong opinions about driving....

[Totem Polar]

^^^I have all that stuff squared away. But then, I drive a 1986 Ford product...

:D

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I had a flat tire a few years ago. I pulled off and changed it. My wife was amazed. Seeing I grew up in Brooklyn, she didn't think that was in my theoretical or practical knowledge base.

Back to the exercise thread - an observation. I am back from the gym. I noticed that the fat old men (my cohort) are very grumpy. As I walked around the machines, if a old fat guy looked up, no smiles, evil looks that would lead to you getting killed on the street. Now at our gun matches, all the FOGs are happy as clams, smiling, and joking. We are welcoming to new folks but will tease the young studs.

Darn - Revolver - I was doing good until the air compressor. I have one but only pack it on long trips.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I drive around in a 3rd-gen 4runner that's outwardly normal (with mildly obnoxious tires) but internally prepared for some kind of mechanical apocalypse. I totally agree with preparedness on that front.

In fact I spend a lot of time on the road and while my interests all seem to revolve around people hell-bent on shooting, stabbing and punching each other, the only non-work-related incident that ever had me grabbing tactically purchased assault gear (a first aid kit) for serious use was a car accident I witnessed. Went for the gloves on account of blood. Facial cut, nothing serious but wow, very panicky passenger going back and forth between too woozy to answer questions and full on screaming. Anyway, the point is...I haul around road gear as well and I think that's wise too.

[Nephrology]

^^^I have all that stuff squared away. But then, I drive a 1986 Ford product...

:D

Kilt. N. Tha. Streetz.

[RevolverRob]

I had a flat tire a few years ago. I pulled off and changed it. My wife was amazed. Seeing I grew up in Brooklyn, she didn't think that was in my theoretical or practical knowledge base.

Back to the exercise thread - an observation. I am back from the gym. I noticed that the fat old men (my cohort) are very grumpy. As I walked around the machines, if a old fat guy looked up, no smiles, evil looks that would lead to you getting killed on the street. Now at our gun matches, all the FOGs are happy as clams, smiling, and joking. We are welcoming to new folks but will tease the young studs.

Darn - Revolver - I was doing good until the air compressor. I have one but only pack it on long trips.

Dude, my cohort (men between 25-40) are also grumpy at the gym.

This is the little pump I have, very compact, decently powerful. It isn't the fastest thing on the planet, but easy to keep in the car. https://www.slime.com/us/products/auto/inflators/12v-auto-/power-sport.php



In fact I spend a lot of time on the road and while my interests all seem to revolve around people hell-bent on shooting, stabbing and punching each other, the only non-work-related incident that ever had me grabbing tactically purchased assault gear (a first aid kit) for serious use was a car accident I witnessed. Went for the gloves on account of blood. Facial cut, nothing serious but wow, very panicky passenger going back and forth between too woozy to answer questions and full on screaming. Anyway, the point is...I haul around road gear as well and I think that's wise too.

I love a good first aid kit. No seriously, I feel like I could spend double or triple the amount of money I do on guns and ammo on knives and first aid kits.

Liking this for a basic kit - https://www.rescue-essentials.com/le-vehicle-first-aid-kit/

BUT it doesn't have solid bleeding trauma gear in it. I just add one of the Trauma Paks from Adventure Medical (http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/stop-bleeding-fast/trauma-kits/trauma-pak-with-quikclot.html), a couple of CPR shields, and a SWAT-T. It's a little bigger than smaller kits, but overall nice and complete.

[Nephrology]

Dude, my cohort (men between 25-40) are also grumpy at the gym.

This is the little pump I have, very compact, decently powerful. It isn't the fastest thing on the planet, but easy to keep in the car. https://www.slime.com/us/products/auto/inflators/12v-auto-/power-sport.php



I love a good first aid kit. No seriously, I feel like I could spend double or triple the amount of money I do on guns and ammo on knives and first aid kits.

Liking this for a basic kit - https://www.rescue-essentials.com/le-vehicle-first-aid-kit/

BUT it doesn't have solid bleeding trauma gear in it. I just add one of the Trauma Paks from Adventure Medical (http://www.adventuremedicalkits.com/stop-bleeding-fast/trauma-kits/trauma-pak-with-quikclot.html), a couple of CPR shields, and a SWAT-T. It's a little bigger than smaller kits, but overall nice and complete.

Chewable baby aspirin (http://www.instructorscorner.org/media/resources/SAC/Asp%20Admin%20Chest%20Pain%20Lay%20Resps.pdf)!! do I need to get the tattoo??

[Totem Polar]

In fact I spend a lot of time on the road and while my interests all seem to revolve around people hell-bent on shooting, stabbing and punching each other, the only non-work-related incident that ever had me grabbing tactically purchased assault gear (a first aid kit) for serious use was a car accident I witnessed. Went for the gloves on account of blood. Facial cut, nothing serious but wow, very panicky passenger going back and forth between too woozy to answer questions and full on screaming. Anyway, the point is...I haul around road gear as well and I think that's wise too.
No joke. Never shot anyone, but I've been the first guy on the scene at a half dozen wrecks over the last 25 or so. The benefit of being out on the road late at night, I guess.



Kilt. N. Tha. Streetz.
No joke. The benefit of being cheap, I guess.

:D

[RevolverRob]

Chewable baby aspirin (http://www.instructorscorner.org/media/resources/SAC/Asp%20Admin%20Chest%20Pain%20Lay%20Resps.pdf)!! do I need to get the tattoo??

Always. I keep aspirin and diphenhydramine in all of my first aid kit(s).

Realized I've never bothered to even assess the amount of crap I'm carrying in my bag everyday. So, I decided to lay it all out on the workbench and take a picture (or 2 or 6)...

15439

15440
15441
15442

Everything there, plus my 13" Macbook Pro, fits comfortably in a medium sized TSA-approved Timbuk2 Commuter (made in the USA, yo!)

15438
15437

___

My roommate asked me why I have so much stuff in my bag.

My response, "Boy Scouts are always prepared!"

"Were you a Boy Scout?"

"No, I got kicked out of Cub Scouts.*"

"What? Why?"

"Because I was better prepared than the Den Leader..."

*True story.

[Clobbersaurus]

^^^ Interesting, I have a very similar Timbuk2 and carry a very similar amount of gear, though your first aid kit is a step up from mine.

I didn't get kicked out of Scouts though.

Edit: I will note that the kit in my car is a big step up from my office kit, and I don't carry my Timbuk2 on no- work days.

[mtnbkr]

I drive around in a 3rd-gen 4runner that's outwardly normal (with mildly obnoxious tires) but internally prepared for some kind of mechanical apocalypse.

Me too. Mine's a '97 with 211k miles. Runs like a champ. I just replaced the front brakes with those from a Tundra so it'll stop warping rotors. On the way to deer camp this fall, I hit a deer at highway speeds (ironic, eh?). I stopped long enough to pull the bumper out of the tire and kept on truckin'. This summer, I'm going to replace the damaged bumper with either an Addicted Offroad tube bumper or a Savage Offroad hybrid (mix between tube and plate).

Chris

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I've been preaching this for years... your life is infinitely more likely to be negatively affected by health problems that stem from shitty diet and lack of exercise than from violent crime or democrats coming to take your guns.

I eat super clean and healthy for about $12 a day. I eat rice and lean ground beef and eggs and I workout a minimum of four days a week plus I'm physically active. Food doesn't have to taste awesome it just has to fuel you.

Diet and nutrition is a choice. Anyone can make time to take care of your self, it's just a matter of what you're willing to sacrifice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[blues]

I've been preaching this for years... your life is infinitely more likely to be negatively affected by health problems that stem from shitty diet and lack of exercise than from violent crime or democrats coming to take your guns.

I eat super clean and healthy for about $12 a day. I eat rice and lean ground beef and eggs and I workout a minimum of four days a week plus I'm physically active. Food doesn't have to taste awesome it just has to fuel you.

Diet and nutrition is a choice. Anyone can make time to take care of your self, it's just a matter of what you're willing to sacrifice.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/7b/42/8c/7b428cef864e167e5a4a257d2bc4809e.jpg

"Eh, managgia miseria that gidrool is some kinda buzz kill!"



For the uninitiated:


gidrool, [gidrul’ – stupid person, buffoon, stupid bastard...[jih-DROOL, zhu-Drool]


mannaggia la miseria – cursing misery (male ne aggia la miseria) [MAA-NAA-juh-MEE-seh-ree-uh]

[JTQ]

I eat super clean...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
When did "eating clean" become a "thing"?

I should put "people that use the term "eating clean" in the "Annoying Habits" thread. That girl that does the Panera Bread commercial voice-over repeating "clean" over and over is really annoying.

Sent from my Smith-Corona using QWERTY.

[Tamara]

Food doesn't have to taste awesome it just has to fuel you.

That actually sounds more miserable than a heart attack.

[Drang]

Chewable baby aspirin (http://www.instructorscorner.org/media/resources/SAC/Asp%20Admin%20Chest%20Pain%20Lay%20Resps.pdf)!! do I need to get the tattoo??
No, you need to get a manufacturer to market chewable baby aspirin in one or two pill foil packs.

Always. I keep aspirin and diphenhydramine in all of my first aid kit(s).

Realized I've never bothered to even assess the amount of crap I'm carrying in my bag everyday. So, I decided to lay it all out on the workbench and take a picture (or 2 or 6)...
There's a thread for that... (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16474-EDC-items-photo-thread)

[Totem Polar]

That actually sounds more miserable than a heart attack.

I was just about to post that reading the food/fuel bit damn near GAVE me a heart attack...

Hey Mr. Goodtimes: you're gonna have to change yr username if you keep posting such anti-bacchanal philosophies. :D

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-05/xxx-tops-2017-world-s-50-best-restaurants-list

[Hambo]

That actually sounds more miserable than a heart attack.

Let's see now. Do I want to live a long time eating tasteless fuel, or eat food that tastes good and hit the deck dead as a hammer? Fuck, this guy makes me want to eat a stick of butter just to hasten it.

[blues]

Let's see now. Do I want to live a long time eating tasteless fuel, or eat food that tastes good and hit the deck dead as a hammer? Fuck, this guy makes me want to eat a stick of butter just to hasten it.

What? Butter's good for you. C'mon, man...Kerrygold for the win!

[txdpd]

When did "eating clean" become a "thing"?

I should put "people that use the term "eating clean" in the "Annoying Habits" thread. That girl that does the Panera Bread commercial voice-over repeating "clean" over and over is really annoying.

Sent from my Smith-Corona using QWERTY.

Since power lifting became popular on social media, and all the big guys make such a big deal about it that it must be really important and mindlessly parroted. Eating "clean" is a really big deal when trying to pack down 8,000+ calories a day, it is often more arduous than the lifting. Literally eat healthy-ish food until you're about to vomit, wait 3 hours and repeat, 6 times a day. Plus having to shit after every meal to make room for the food that was just consumed, which is a really big deal for the 350+ body weight guys that can't wipe their own asses (that's when you know you have a wife that really loves you). Most guys eat calorie dense processed food, because eating "clean" is so hard to do. If you watch interviews or documentaries about strongmen and powerlifters, they all want to talk about how hard of a task eating is for them.

[Tamara]

I read every training journal on PF (mostly to compile stats for the giveaways). Mr. Goodtimes (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24334) is a stud and I find his his discipline and dedication inspiring.

I've no doubt, and I have mad respect for his discipline and shooting skills, but different people have different wants and needs in life.

"Food is just fuel and doesn't have to taste good..." Hey, if that works for you, fantastic, but I actually have things I prioritize in life higher than the simple length of it. If that was all there was to it, we'd all stay out of the ultraviolet radiation and drink nothing but carrot juice.

[BehindBlueI's]

I read every training journal on PF (mostly to compile stats for the giveaways). Mr. Goodtimes (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24334) is a stud and I find his his discipline and dedication inspiring.

I admire the priesthood for their dedication, but I'm not going celibate.

[blues]

I read every training journal on PF (mostly to compile stats for the giveaways). Mr. Goodtimes (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24334) is a stud and I find his his discipline and dedication inspiring.

Hey, knock it off TJ. I may have met his daddy at one time or another during my career. He doesn't get to not be heckled. And since when are good habits laudatory? Me and the LSP boys find this sort of overt discrimination offensive. ;)


(Besides, he knows we're just havin' a little fun at his expense.)

[blues]

I admire the priesthood for their dedication, but I'm not going celibate.

Neither are they...(rimshot!)

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I'm not someone who particularly cares about food (I like eating and all, I just never give it much thought and if Erin is away I'll eat peanut butter sandwiches rather than spend time in the kitchen) but I personally suspect that overly stringent diets are less of a factor in longevity than their adherents tend to believe.

I wouldn't spend my whole life eating junk food or anything...but my dad is seventy-five and puts no thought into his diet at all and still hunts mountain goats. In fact he's up that way right now, not hunting, but working on his mom's place, getting the garden started up for spring. She's having a harder time keeping the garden up these days, but when you're 99 years old and living on a rural acreage it's understandable if you need some help once in a while.

I'm sure she's never heard of clean eating and how it would be better for her longevity but I'll be heading up there for her hundredth birthday this summer. Maybe I'll bring her a cookbook.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

[Maple Syrup Actual]

Me too. Mine's a '97 with 211k miles. Runs like a champ. I just replaced the front brakes with those from a Tundra so it'll stop warping rotors. On the way to deer camp this fall, I hit a deer at highway speeds (ironic, eh?). I stopped long enough to pull the bumper out of the tire and kept on truckin'. This summer, I'm going to replace the damaged bumper with either an Addicted Offroad tube bumper or a Savage Offroad hybrid (mix between tube and plate).

Chris
Same year, slightly fewer miles here. Great machines. Mine hauls a 5000 pound boat in and out of the water with ease and shows no signs of quitting. I love the thing.

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[blues]

Same year, slightly fewer miles here. Great machines. Mine hauls a 5000 pound boat in and out of the water with ease and shows no signs of quitting. I love the thing.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

My neighbor and shooting partner has a '97 and a '15. I got tired of looking at his and wanting one so I bought a '16 a year ago January.

[BehindBlueI's]

Daddy isn't playing favorites. He thinks the rest of you are pretty too.

Nothing says you're sorry like cheesecake...

[NEPAKevin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQnIL-XPerQ

[Tamara]

It is in fact possible to not like narsty processed junk food and still prefer that food be delicious and an enjoyable end in itself rather than mere fuelcalories to stoke the bodymachine.

Sincerely,
Pretentious Hipster Foodie Douchebag

[Lex Luthier]

Daddy isn't playing favorites. He thinks the rest of you are pretty too.

Okay, I larfed.

[Nephrology]

No, you need to get a manufacturer to market chewable baby aspirin in one or two pill foil packs.

McKesson pharma sells them in blister packs but they just had a recall in June and I'm not seeing them for sale anywhere.

edit: here's one source:

http://www.ahsionline.com/Mckesson-Pharma-63739-0434-01-Chewable-Aspirin-p/85207-.htm

another:

http://www.berktree.com/chewable-aspirin-tablets-low-dose-unit-dose-model-85281-box-of-750.html

[Paul Sharp]

I always liked this quote by Paul Sharp - "It's an indisputable fact, strong people are harder to kill. By default, strong people are harder to injure, stop, maim or affect in other ways."


Rare is the time I would take an alternative position to Paul's, (especially since I sure as hell ain't fighting him), but sometimes context is everything and blanket statements are only generally true.

Back in the day when I used to spar with a couple guys that were getting ready for the golden gloves competition in NYC, this one fella, Gene, was a big, strong, strapping guy who when he hit you, (and he was considerably bigger and stronger than me), you pretty much stayed hit. My jaw still snaps a little from a hook I took from him one time.

Anyway, we went up to the armory in the Bronx for his fight. I forget how deep we were into the competition at that point. He fought this tall, skinny, lanky kid who looked like if he got hit he'd break into pieces.

Well, when Gene woke up I had to convince him that he got knocked out in the first round. The punch that him was a thing of beauty. I doubt this kid could bench his (not imposing) body weight. Gene could have pressed four of him.

I take nothing and no one for granted. I've seen little guys in bars walk outside and cold cock much bigger, stronger guys that I thought would kill the poor bastards.

Anyway, just saying. 99 out of 100 times, Paul's probably right on. Especially when it's a skilled big / strong man in the fight.

There is also the thought that when I talk about strength it isn't just for fighting. Being able to move something during an emergency whether that something is another body, a car or a rock is easier when you're strong. Ditto for surviving a life threatening health crisis. When I had my aneurysm every medical professional involved said my strength played a major factor in my ability to drive myself to the ER, somewhat walk, talk, keep getting up when I would fall down, and pretty much not die. As well as my ability to bounce back, and four months later in March, do things like test for my BJJ blackbelt or teach at Rangemaster Tac-Con. Having a decent level of strength has allowed me to pull people out of overturned vehicles on two separate occasions. Once was really challenging because the car was on it's side down in a 10 foot deep drainage ditch. I had to brace myself on the car with one hand and essentially do a one armed row of two adults and a child to get them out of the car. Having the strength on tap to barbell row between 375-405 for sets of 5, (based on how motivated I might be on upper body pull day), came in handy. Why did I have to pull them out when there was a full gown adult male in the car? Because he couldn't pull himself up to climb out of the car and then pull his baby mama and baby out. Nor could he lift them up, including the kid, to get them out of the car... Thinking about being that guy motivates me to not be that guy. You don't have to be rebar bending strong but please, be stronger than that guy. Be strong enough to save yourself.

Also, when you're strong you can do cool stuff other people can't. Not going to lie, it's a good feeling. I think being as strong as you can be is always better, and being strong will improve your life in ways you, and I don't yet realize.

As to the OP? Asked and answered. It's not an either/or. You can take classes AND be healthy. It's kinda like eating clean doesn't have to mean tasteless food. Based on ones objectives overall calorie count might be more important than the source of the calories but that's a 55 gallon barrel of worms that I'm not interested in opening. There was a documentary called Super Size Me, Too. In which the guy ate nothing but McDonalds for a month in response to the original Super Size Me documentary. The guy in SSMT actually got into shape, lost weight, and got stronger while eating nothing but McDonalds. He said it was brutally hard towards the end for a number of reasons, one of which was the food selection was monotonous but the point is overall caloric intake might be more of an issue than the source of those calories, within reason.

Anyway, eat, drink, and be merry. Be cool, don't be an asshole, and make sure the people around you know they matter. All this other stuff is personal passions and pursuits and shouldn't be used as a club to beat anyone over the head. In the end? Nobody is getting out of here alive.

[blues]

Good points, Paul. For some reason when I replied, (and I haven't gone back to research why I answered as I did), I was responding as if it dealt with the size of the dog in the fight.

Probably just a matter of my reading the posted quote out of context or its being offered out of context. Either way, it's all good. Promise to go easy on me and I'll buy whenever we happen to meet up. ;)

[Totem Polar]

If that was all there was to it, we'd all stay out of the ultraviolet radiation and drink nothing but carrot juice.

And carry G19s.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I have often commented that the safest you could ever be would be in a padded room, with your teeth and fingernails and toenails removed, possibly in a straitjacket, being cared for by genuinely protective individuals who carefully fed you well cooked oatmeal with a nylon spoon, let you drink a bit of skim milk, and occasionally gave you a bit of pureed fruit.

Freedom and safety are practically at opposite ends of a spectrum, in my opinion. I'm not saying "just douse a bunch of bacon in diesel, hit it with a flamethrower, and eat it once the flames have died down a bit" but you just have to be a bit cognizant of the fact that everything fun involves risk, and burning your freedom on driving carefully down the most predictable possible path may not be the path to happiness for everyone.

Not that the single most important exercise in freedom is food indulgence or anything, either. If you don't feel that you get much out of exotic glazes on rare kobe steaks and weirdly arranged vegetables served in browned butter and mizithra cheese, I'm hardly going to tell you that you should be forced to consume it in the name of freedom. I don't believe that there is a point to existence and as far as I'm concerned nothing happens for any reason at all (beyond physical cause and effect, of course) so if you're making yourself happy, I'm not convinced that there is any higher purpose beyond that anyway. Are my wife's rabbits seeking to be the most rabbitlike rabbits they can? No, they're seeking to run, to jump, and to eat hay and brussel sprouts. And my 1970s teak. I imagine that, adjusted for the pleasures of the species, it's much the same for chimpanzees, alopecia levels notwithstanding.

[Paul Sharp]

Good points, Paul. For some reason when I replied, (and I haven't gone back to research why I answered as I did), I was responding as if it dealt with the size of the dog in the fight.

Probably just a matter of my reading the posted quote out of context or its being offered out of context. Either way, it's all good. Promise to go easy on me and I'll buy whenever we happen to meet up. ;)

No worries dude, just fleshing out the thought a bit.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Food is for fuel

Sex is for reproduction

Guns are for the militia

As far as strength - poor me. I used to lift heavier weights but my cardiologist suggests that I shouldn't spike my blood pressure. Thus, I do reps with about 60 lbs on various muscle groups on machines. About 50 a machine two to four times a week. Being strong is useful as when going to a match a friend was riding his Harley in front of me and tipped over with him underneath it. I managed to lift it off him (with him pushing). Back did hurt for a week.

I read in a physio text about the basis of the superstrength emergency feats. Usually, your nervous system / pain receptors start to complain at a max of 30% of available muscle fibers. In the emergency situation, you boost up to about 70% for the super feat. If this is true - I don't know, it was in a text.

[JAD]

Food is for fuel and sex is for reproduction. Taking pleasure in food and sex is appropriate and is even a form of worship, a gratitude for the goodness given, when the original intention is honored.

True junk food, with no or negative health impact, and sex that isn't open to reproduction are exactly parallel.* They're disordered, but I say that with a little bit of a shrug because there are more important forms of disorder, unless either is taken to a life-impacting extreme.

Likewise, food that might not be perfectly healthy but does serve the basic purpose of nourishment, or sex that isn't super intentional but is at least basically open to it, is not just fine but good, as long as it doesn't totally supersede well ordered nutrition and procreation.

But that's just like, my opinion, man.

*not equivalent, parallel.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I'm not going near this one. I'm going to get some popcorn and who knows what else that will be superseded.

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm enjoying the new turn in the thread.

[Duelist]

I'm enjoying the new turn in the thread.

Obesity, out of shape people, and sexual reproduction combine to give me shudders. Shudders, and shivers.

[BehindBlueI's]

Obesity, out of shape people, and sexual reproduction combine to give me shudders. Shudders, and shivers.

Just think of all the moist slapping noises involved.

(My last 2 posts should be read in the Floyd the Trucker voice if you're familiar with the Bob & Tom show)

[Malamute]

Obesity, out of shape people, and sexual reproduction combine to give me shudders. Shudders, and shivers.

One doesn't necessarily need to include all those aspects into one sentence.

"Out of shape" doesn't mean an unpleasant shape either.

[Shotgun]

I'm going to go to my gun club tomorrow, eat a plate of cheese nachos from the club's small kitchen, and read this thread.

[Duelist]

It's all a matter of phrasing, isn't it.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I read every training journal on PF (mostly to compile stats for the giveaways). Mr. Goodtimes (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24334) is a stud and I find his his discipline and dedication inspiring.

Thanks a lot for the kind words Tom, it certainly means a lot.

I certainly seemed to have opened up a fairly large can of worms with my first post, and I also don't mean to come across as a pretentious, self righteous clean eating douche bag, as many people can and often do. I like to eat shitty, tasty food as much as anyone, I would even argue more than most. Anyone who has seen me eat can attest that I can put away enough chicken alfreado and mac and cheese to feed an entire village of starving children. I'm surprised Sonny's BBQ still has an all you can eat menu as I go there fairly often and I know they're losing money when I walk through the door. I this probably once a week and eat good the rest, it's an easily sustainable plan for me and I would even argue my quality of life has improved.

What I do isn't for everyone and I understand that; you can in fact eat extremely healthy and "clean" and eat foods that are full of flavor, I simply don't have time. Also, over time your taste adapts to what your eating. I grew up eating very rich foods and after giving them up for a few weeks, I don't miss them in the least. I've gone through phases of eating really clean and simple and eating really rich several times and the same thing happens every time, it sucks at first and then gets easy. I can watch my girlfriend kill a bowl of mac and cheese and it doesn't bother me, and mac and cheese is probably my favorite food in existence. Also, every time I've gone back to eating clean I notice that I focus better, have more energy and hit better numbers in the gym. Your body is a machine, you put shit in, you get shit out. You put good stuff in, you get good stuff out.


I work my job at the fire department, own/operate my lawn care and tree trimming business, teach at my gym one day a week and I'm completely remodeling my girlfriend and I's house that we live in, plus I still find time to make it to the gym four days a week and shoot. With a schedule like that my time is fairly limited, leaving me very little to cook and prepare food. Thus I live almost exclusively off of fried eggs, ground beef, rice, coconut milk and veggies. In 30 minutes in the morning I make all of my meals for the entire day. So while not the most delicious, I find I get a lot done when I have lunch, snack and dinner already made.

Once a week, usually on Sunday I eat whatever I want. I love rich foods so usually on Sunday I make a pretty epic breakfast with eggs, French toast, sausage and I eat until it becomes difficult to move. I love pasta, so lunch and dinner is usually something like that or I'll go wreck the local Sonnys. The food is pretty marginal at best but its all you can eat BBQ chicken, mac and cheese and cornbread, which I'm pretty sure makes baby Jesus smile.

It's a free country and I'm a firm believer in free will, but the reality of it is we create most of our own health problems and then refuse to take responsibility for them. I see people who are overweight, diabetic, lazy, have all sort of joint problems and they refuse to admit that their diet has anything to do with it, or they will admit it but just refuse to change it because they would rather die "fat and happy." Well, I see a lot of people dying "fat and happy" on a nearly daily basis and let me assure you, they aren't happy. Being couch ridden on twenty different medications you can't pronounce, much less spell, watching wheel of fortune all day and requiring a walker to get up and take a piss isn't happy.

I watched one of my grandfathers go that way. The other is 74, still works our ranch and has a six pack. What does he do? He eats right and lives an active lifestyle. He also carries a G19.


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[cclaxton]

One of the things left-over from evolutionary biology is our drive to eat food when it is available to make up for when it is not. In 2 Million years of human history we learned to eat high calorie and high fat foods because they helped us survive longer during lean periods. My view is that biological drive is still running in our neural networks and now that we have lots of high calorie and high fat foods available, we have to learn how to refrain from those natural and organic drivers.
Cody

[Mr. Goodtimes]

One of the things left-over from evolutionary biology is our drive to eat food when it is available to make up for when it is not. In 2 Million years of human history we learned to eat high calorie and high fat foods because they helped us survive longer during lean periods. My view is that biological drive is still running in our neural networks and now that we have lots of high calorie and high fat foods available, we have to learn how to refrain from those natural and organic drivers.
Cody

I had a good conversation with an excellent friend of mine and owner of my gym I work out/teach at on essentially this exact topic. Basically, were only a few thousand years out of the woods, which in evolutionary terms is nothing, thus a lot of our pre historic biological drives and tendencies are still there such as keen survival instincts, eating habits, sleeping habits etc... in some people it's been bread out or largely suppressed but in some it's still quite prevalent, such as people in the country.

Things like napping in the day and eating a large meal at night are instinctual for a reason.


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[voodoo_man]

I had a good conversation with an excellent friend of mine and owner of my gym I work out/teach at on essentially this exact topic. Basically, were only a few thousand years out of the woods, which in evolutionary terms is nothing, thus a lot of our pre historic biological drives and tendencies are still there such as keen survival instincts, eating habits, sleeping habits etc... in some people it's been bread out or largely suppressed but in some it's still quite prevalent, such as people in the country.

Things like napping in the day and eating a large meal at night are instinctual for a reason.


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But eating for bed is fantastic.

[Totem Polar]

Let's talk about sleep for a sec. We know that it used to be common for people to have two sleep cycles, in between which—say between 1 and 3 in the morning— they'd get up and do something; write letters, whatever.

I had a professor in college who'd let his work commissions stack up when school was in session, and then take the breaks to knock them all out. I once saw him wandering around the building in a daze during spring break—I ran over to see what was up and he asked me what day and time it was; at first, I thought he'd had a stroke or something. Turns out, what he'd do every spring break is take a blanket, cot, water and a cooler of food into a windowless room in the basement, and he'd get on this cycle where he'd work for 4 hours, sleep for 2 and work another 4 etc. when he'd get done with a commission, he'd come up for air and supplies. He was happy to find out that it was Wednesday of break, around 1pm, because that meant he could probably knock 2 more big pieces of work out before school started again Monday the following week.

I'll sometimes be bolt awake at 2;30, 3, or 3:30 so I'll get up and hit the studio for a while, then climb back into bed at 4:30 or 5 for a couple more hours.

Any rate, figured so long as we are covering paleoevolutionbrosci as it relates to obesity and G19s, may as well run this segmented sleep discussion up the pole too. :D

[Wondering Beard]

You might not want to go there, it's become a bit of a hipster thing (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/08/fashion/sleep-tips-and-tools.html?smid=pl-share). Only HK owners need apply ;-)

[txdpd]

I know I sound like the advertisements. I never knew how much of an impact consistent, good quality sleep could make, until I got a Tempurpedic bed. Well my wife bought one, and I got over the price tag pretty quickly. I don't know about all this paleo stuff, but if someone has problems getting enough sleep to feel rested, it might be worth trying.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I know I sound like the advertisements. I never knew how much of an impact consistent, good quality sleep could make, until I got a Tempurpedic bed. Well my wife bought one, and I got over the price tag pretty quickly. I don't know about all this paleo stuff, but if someone has problems getting enough sleep to feel rested, it might be worth trying.

Paleo doesn't even know what paleo is all about. Depending on who you ask you'll get different answers. I don't believe in low carb but I do believe that eating whole, unprocessed foods certainly can't be a bad thing, and may even be a really good thing.

Good sleep is very important. I've wanted a tempurpedic for quite some time but can't afford one yet. I can absolutely tell the difference between a good nights sleep and an ok ones.


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[Joe in PNG]

I've gone with the Walmart version, and it works well enough. Memory foam pillows are also a good thing to have.

[rob_s]

I actually have things I prioritize in life higher than the simple length of it. If that was all there was to it, we'd all stay out of the ultraviolet radiation and drink nothing but carrot juice.

It's not the sudden end that worries me so much as the long slow decline and possible inability later in life to see my (future) grandchildren's sporting events, or go with them to Disney world, or even be able to watch them for the weekend while the parents go out of town. We are dealing with this now with one set of grandparents, and it kills me to see them unable to enjoy their grandchildren like they should, and the grandchildren enjoy them.

We've gotten so focused on prolonging life when we should have been working on improving the quality of life. All we've done with modern medicine is drag people's lives out only to have them home-bound and unable to enjoy said life. Often due to perhaps a shade too much enjoyment when they were younger in some cases, but even people that were healthy their entire lives are unlikely to be physically capable of truly enjoying life after 80.

To steal a quote...

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.

[blues]

It's not the sudden end that worries me so much as the long slow decline and possible inability later in life to see my (future) grandchildren's sporting events, or go with them to Disney world, or even be able to watch them for the weekend while the parents go out of town. We are dealing with this now with one set of grandparents, and it kills me to see them unable to enjoy their grandchildren like they should, and the grandchildren enjoy them.

We've gotten so focused on prolonging life when we should have been working on improving the quality of life. All we've done with modern medicine is drag people's lives out only to have them home-bound and unable to enjoy said life. Often due to perhaps a shade too much enjoyment when they were younger in some cases, but even people that were healthy their entire lives are unlikely to be physically capable of truly enjoying life after 80.

To steal a quote...

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.

All the more reason why assisted suicide or euthanasia or call it what you will, should be a legal and viable option for folks to end their days with dignity and spare their families the heartbreak of their resorting to taking a pharmaceutical or lead pill as a means to that end.

How Doctors Choose To Die (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/feb/08/how-doctors-choose-die)

Why physicians tend to decline CPR and other heroic measures (http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2013/02/physicians-tend-decline-cpr-heroic-measures.html)

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I recall from neuro classes that in your 90's - the large majority of folks have very significant mental decline. Unless that can be arrested, I see no use in making it that long. I have older friends now struggling with the horrific financial complications of care for such folks. Basically, unless you are very well off, it drains all the finances. You might have to kiss the grandkids college fund and the house good buy. You have to fight Medicad with legal assistance that is costly.

[rob_s]

I've said for years, guarantee me zero health issues between now and 60 (provided I adhere to certain diet/fitness/self-control guidelines) and then have me drop dead, vs lingering on losing my mind and having my body rebelling against me until 90, and I'll take the former every single time.

[blues]

I've said for years, guarantee me zero health issues between now and 60 (provided I adhere to certain diet/fitness/self-control guidelines) and then have me drop dead, vs lingering on losing my mind and having my body rebelling against me until 90, and I'll take the former every single time.

Problem is, those of us who have, (remarkably, given the lives led), made it to and surpassed 60 may not want to go just yet. But I take your meaning. Just getting there doesn't mean it's time to head for the exit.

I'll be old enough for Medicare this year...and while the only time I've visited a doctor in the past ten years or more has been to have my hands sutured this past fall, (how apropos...the name of the season), that is a personal choice regardless of its wisdom or lack thereof. I'd have made a great Christian Scientist...guess I missed my calling.

(I have very good medical insurance through my former federal employment which I am willing to use for traumatic injuries, such as this past visit to the emergency room, but not so much for a life devoted to taking pills and treatments and invasive surgeries which then require other pills and treatments and surgeries to counteract those that came before them. It's a vicious cycle which I have witnessed at first hand and am not willing to participate in.)

[rob_s]

Problem is, those of us who have, (remarkably, given the lives led), made it to and surpassed 60 may not want to go just yet. But I take your meaning. Just getting there doesn't mean it's time to head for the exit.


it's a somewhat arbitrary number. But remember that you arrive there with zero colds, flus, stomach virusses, etc. and (presumably) somewhat "frozen" in your best physical shape for the duration.

I'm 42 now, and I'm certainaly not looking to check out in 18 years, but even at 42 I'm already beginning to feel the creak in my knees (had to give up running several years ago) and wake up or go to bed from time to time with mystery aches & pains.

[JAD]

All the more reason why assisted suicide or euthanasia

Everywhere they've put that in place it's been abused. Of course, here in America, I'm sure we can trust our physicians and relatives not to croak us out when we become an inconvenience.

[blues]

Everywhere they've put that in place it's been abused. Of course, here in America, I'm sure we can trust our physicians and relatives not to croak us out when we become an inconvenience.

I haven't done any research on that so I'll defer. That said, I'd like the option if I'm in a position to have a choice in the matter.

[NEPAKevin]

I'm sure we can trust our physicians and relatives not to croak us out when we become an inconvenience.

I know of at least one case where a doctor used that Hippocratic Oath thing to wipe his ass as he categorized a patient as catatonic from a massive stroke and sent her to a hospice house, coincidentally owned by a group of doctors from the same hospital. While at the hospice house, said patient got out of her bed, by herself and started wandering around trying to figure out where she was which while I'm not a doctor, I'm pretty sure is not one of those things people who are catatonic from a massive stroke tends to do.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Every right can be abused or lead to unpleasant circumstances. Certainly, the position of firearms as protected by the Constitution has led to folks killing their families, crime or the like. The right to control your own life with dignity is one we should have (as the RKBA) but with safeguards to avoid being railroaded to the Grime Reaper.

A friend tells me of his elderly mother who won't eat her favorite pie. She is watching her cholesterol. Does it matter at 86? My mother (at 88) told me her doc wanted to check her cholesterol every 3 months (Doc needs a new Mercedes!). She told him to screw it as she was in the final glide path of life. I told my doc - that he should give patients a whipped cream day. Meaning from now on, eat what you want - there is no reasonable predicted increase in life span at this point. So if doesn't make you sick - go for it.

[RevolverRob]

but even people that were healthy their entire lives are unlikely to be physically capable of truly enjoying life after 80.

Please. My great grandfather lived to 109 years old. He worked on the farm, whistling while he worked, until he was 108. Then he fell down and broke his hip. That put him out. He was okay though...on his death bed he told me that his life was very enjoyable and he considered himself lucky to have lived and seen as much as he did.

I've seen Emeritus Professors in their 90s come into work 3-4 days a week. No problem keeping up with the young whippersnappers.

Physically and mentally enjoying life has as much to do with your decision to enjoy it as your health. You take care of yourself and keep your mind sharp, then you can continue to enjoy life for quite a while. My dad is 72 years old, he only plans to live another 27 years or so. Last year he designed and built a garage by himself. In between still running his contracting business. Yep, he is slower to get out of bed in the morning now and he has plenty of aches and pains from a lifetime of working with his hands. But his quality of life is not lower than it has ever been.

What we have in this country is a tendency for old(er) people to "retire" and sit on the couch and watch TV all damn day. Before you know it, you're brain dead and physically unable to keep up. If you stay active, stay working, and stay moving, your chances of declining quality of life are dramatically reduced.


To steal a quote...

Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should.

Fuck that. Fuck that entirely. Because it pre-supposes the idea that those of us who study health/medicine/biology are not concerned with the ethical implications of what we do. That's fucking bullshit and entirely insulting to millions of professionals globally. I've hated that quote for years. Ethics is a real issue in science and one that most scientists and professionals take seriously. Prolonging life isn't about just prolonging. Otherwise we would have millions of people in hospital beds waiting to die and we wouldn't be investing money in finding and developing a cure for things like Alzheimers.



All the more reason why assisted suicide or euthanasia or call it what you will, should be a legal and viable option for folks to end their days with dignity and spare their families the heartbreak of their resorting to taking a pharmaceutical or lead pill as a means to that end.

There is no doubt in my mind that assisted suicide should be legal in our society. No one should be deprived their decision to end their own life. If they need medical assistance to do so, then we should allow it. I can't fault people who choose not to endure what can sometimes be endless pain and suffering for themselves and their families.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

It is argued that the improved health of the aged tenure track faculty are keeping the jobs out of the hands of new PhDs. Being emeritus and not tying up a position is different from hanging in there. Whether the older folks are cutting edge anymore is debatable in the STEM fields. In the Humanities - who cares. Is there a cutting edge? Ha!

[45dotACP]

Soooo....not to put too fine a point on it....but I'd highly suggest an advance directive be filled out in the event you become non-decisional (E.G. comatose, persistent vegetative state and so on).

A legal document detailing whether or not you wish to have a tracheostomy or a tube feeding placed...especially in the event of an incurable illness or a poor prognosis with minimal likelihood of recovery. A legal document stating whether or not you want to be intubated, electrically cardioverted, have chest compressions done, be on anitarrhythmics/pressors etc...)

It is not a pleasant conversation to have, but it should be had. Especially if you have a chronic illness that may end with you on life support (COPD, CHF, poorly managed heart disease, history of strokes etc...)

[RevolverRob]

It is argued that the improved health of the aged tenure track faculty are keeping the jobs out of the hands of new PhDs. Being emeritus and not tying up a position is different from hanging in there. Whether the older folks are cutting edge anymore is debatable in the STEM fields. In the Humanities - who cares. Is there a cutting edge? Ha!

It's true that we are seeing tenured positions occupied longer by non-Emeritus faculty. Of course, the problem, particularly in STEM, is the issue of time-to-tenure. I'm 31 years old. I've got an MS and I'm halfway through my PhD. If I'm lucky and secure a tenure-track position straight out of my PhD, I'll start my job at 34-35 years old. Which means, when I am 40, I'll (in theory) be tenured. Another 5-years to full professor. And 5-10 years after that, I'll be department chair. By the time I get to 60, I'll have put in just 25-years as a full-time faculty member and only 20 of that as a tenured faculty member. If I don't get that job and end up as a post-doc for 2-4 years. Then I'll be 65 years old, before I have 25-years in and I'll only have been at my peak earning potential for 10-15 years maximum. All of that means, if I decide to have kids between now and then, I'm FUCKED when it comes time to "retire". If I don't have kids, I can potentially retire at 65 years old, but realistically, I'll be 70, before I give up my tenured position (because it's not like, I'm ever getting my social security payments back...).

As for cutting edge. I think it depends. I tell my mentees and colleagues to pick a supervisor who has just gotten tenure, but isn't a full prof yet. They tend to be right at the point of peak-productivity (which isn't equivalent to novel ideas, but does tend to equate with biggest impact). That tends to decline more rapidly when administrative responsibilities really take hold. But good ideas can come at any age, with enough thinking time, enough reading time, and good dynamic students, a lab can produce at a high level well past the theoretical prime of the PI. But I do tend to agree that it is largely dependent on the person and the mean seems to hit right around the time that a person reaches full professor.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Put as much as you can in the pension plan - like TIAA-CREF. The problem with the never ending post-doc circuit is that it screws you on retirement plans.

Tenure is fucked anyway. In a few more years, except for very elite schools - faculty will all be part time or short time contracts. No one in their right mind would go for a doctorate in the Humanities and some of the Social Sciences. If one doesn't get a tenured position fairly quickly, time to bail for industry or government. One should plan to acquire saleable skills outside of their narrow research concern.

Being a prof was a great job if you got in the 60's and 70's. Then the tide turned for most doctorates. It's not that this is not known but grad departments exist only for faculty research and using grad students and post-docs for the tenured faculty's slave labor pool.

[blues]

15504

"For the love of God, please stop!"

[RevolverRob]

Soooo....not to put too fine a point on it....but I'd highly suggest an advance directive be filled out in the event you become non-decisional (E.G. comatose, persistent vegetative state and so on).

A legal document detailing whether or not you wish to have a tracheostomy or a tube feeding placed...especially in the event of an incurable illness or a poor prognosis with minimal likelihood of recovery. A legal document stating whether or not you want to be intubated, electrically cardioverted, have chest compressions done, be on anitarrhythmics/pressors etc...)

It is not a pleasant conversation to have, but it should be had. Especially if you have a chronic illness that may end with you on life support (COPD, CHF, poorly managed heart disease, history of strokes etc...)

An excellent suggestion - Folks can find state specific Advance Directives for free here: http://www.caringinfo.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3289 - You may wish to consult your attorney for alternative versions, but here is a document that can be notarized that is better than nothing.


Put as much as you can in the pension plan - like TIAA-CREF. The problem with the never ending post-doc circuit is that it screws you on retirement plans.

Tenure is fucked anyway. In a few more years, except for very elite schools - faculty will all be part time or short time contracts. No one in their right mind would go for a doctorate in the Humanities and some of the Social Sciences. If one doesn't get a tenured position fairly quickly, time to bail for industry or government. One should plan to acquire saleable skills outside of their narrow research concern.

Being a prof was a great job if you got in the 60's and 70's. Then the tide turned for most doctorates. It's not that this is not known but grad departments exist only for faculty research and using grad students and post-docs for the tenured faculty's slave labor pool.

Tenure in STEM is still viable. Which is not to say that there are a lot of positions. They exist and you have to work hard to be competitive for one. But from recent assessments, about 20-25% of my peers who have finished have managed to procure tenure-track positions at universities/colleges of some type (they do vary between Liberal Arts schools, and PhD granting institutions). Another 25% of my peers have tenure-track positions in medical schools (the advantage, paleontologists teach anatomy almost exclusively to other biologists). Of the remaining 50% most of them (~35-40% or so) have taken industry jobs. This isn't surprising, I'm hanging out with geologists (so petroleum...) or data scientists (which are being hired up by various industries as well). The remaining 10-15% are those folks...who should have quit, but didn't, and never had it in them to succeed. Of those most of them are tutors/K-12 teachers/non-tenured lecturers/resource management/conservation.

BUT there is a lot of truth to the reality of what most grad departments are about. As I move forward in my career, I'm keeping my head down until I get than tenure clock finished. Then I intend to unload on faculty members who are through-putting degreed students without giving a shit about their futures. I'm of the mind now that we seriously need to limit students moving into graduate programs, because the long and short is, the majority aren't doing themselves any favors and their PIs are either dumb or lie to them.

My first mentor was very clear to me that there are no jobs AND that if you aren't in the top 1-3% of your field, chances of long-term success are extremely limited. He is also a big advocate for professional development, strong oration skills, and being a professional everywhere you go. His mentorship really moved me along a successful path. Right now, I'm struggling getting publications out, but I have a few in decent journals/books, I have plenty of grant dollars, and I have something else my peers don't have - a lot of success in fundraising. Which given the future will be an invaluable skillset. Add in my strong mentorship skills (I have, as I write this, successfully mentored four undergraduates, all of whom are now going to grad school or in industry jobs of their choice), I have another mentee right now, who just received an NSF Fellowship, and two fresh mentees starting on paid internships this summer. A few more publications, keep the grants going, and keep-on-keeping-on and we'll see what happens.

[idahojess]

botched the quote up, never mind...

[BobLoblaw]

According to a study in this times article (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html), runners (even ones who are smokers, drinkers, and fatties) tend to live longer than their non-running counterparts. Probably, a correlation due to runners taking better care of themselves but I haven't studied it beyond reading the article.

[Totem Polar]

Tenure is fucked anyway. In a few more years, except for very elite schools - faculty will all be part time or short time contracts. No one in their right mind would go for a doctorate in the Humanities and some of the Social Sciences...

Being a prof was a great job if you got in the 60's and 70's...

Truth. Once again, spilling same plasma in the same miasma. Latest push coming from dean levels and higher is to start replacing adjuncts with grad students for core undergrad courses because adjuncts are too expensive. Think about that for a second.

This whole idea of becoming a tenured prof, with the tweed jacket, and the pipe, and the books and the load release and the sabbaticals... may as well talk about becoming a samurai, or owning a chain of video cassette rental stores. Even if one gets a tenure-line position through some combination of multiple doctorates and multiple language proficiency, the job now entails 40 percent political infighting, and only 60 percent tweed, books, research, and smart students.

Take that history degree... and open a brewery specializing in ancient recipes (last night's pints of gruit ale and braggot at the hipster craft place in town being good exemplars).

[/derail]