Help me decide on a pocket 380

[mrozowjj]

I every so often entertain the idea of getting a pocket 380 for those times I normally would not carry anything. I ususally talk myself out of it because I have trouble finding a pocket 380 that has a decent enough trigger and is reliable. Several years ago I bought a Ruger LCP but it would not fire worth a damn. I tried multiple types of ammo and it just wouldn't cycle. Made a return trip to Ruger to fix it and still didn't work.

Right now I am considering the following:

Kahr P380
Beretta Pico
S&W Bodyguard
Ruger LCP or LCP2
Colt Mustang
Sig P238
Glock 42


Part of me knows the Glock 42 will have a good enough trigger and be reliable but it's also so large that it negates the point if getting a gun in 380 in my opinion so I'm inclinded not to get that one.

I like the idea of the Colt and the Sig because people seem to think they are reliable and their triggers are good but I don't like the fact that they have a very small manual safety; my other carry gun is striker fired so I'm leaning towards not getting either of those.

The other Ruger LCP I had as previously stated was not reliable so it kind of soured me on the LCP, though I suppose the LCP 2 is different enough that it might be worth a try if you all seem to think it would do the trick.

I have shot a Bodyguard and it shot well enough but the trigger was very long and it has an even harder to manage safety than the Sig/Colt.

So I guess that leaves the Kahr. I like the one Kahr CW9 I had. It was a little temperamental about the magazines at first but it worked once that got sorted out. I ended up selling it because the trigger was hard to master and I shot the Shield and Walther PPS better on a timer.

I have heard nothing about the Beretta Pico other than that the trigger isn't great and the mag release is very hard to hit but I've never even seen one in person before.

So what say the hive here, are there other guns out there I'm neglecting to mention that are worth considering? Anything new coming on down the line I should wait for? Anyone have some experience with any of the models above that they could care to recommend one?

[Sigfan26]

The Pico is a good idea for self defense like pulling out is a good idea for birth control. The two do have something in common... Each only gives one shot.


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[JHC]

Have you actually pocketed a 42? It's not THAT bad.

[Joe in PNG]

Have you actually pocketed a 42? It's not THAT bad.

442's aren't that bad either.

[Bigghoss]

My LCP has been excellent but the sights suck. A friend of mine has an LCP II, I need to get out shooting with me again so I can try it out. The 42 is big for what it is but that translates into being very shootable for a mouse gun. I held a Beretta Pico once, all I really remember about it is thinking that it was a total POS.

If you can find and LCP custom I hear those are pretty nice, but you'll have to find a used one.

[Totem Polar]

IMO:
the 42 is the shooter of the choices. It is bigger, but still much easier to tote than Bond's PPK of yore.
The LCP custom is the zenith of the Rugers; probably better than the LCP2
Kahrs are OK.
Small SAOs (e.g. Sig P238) lunch their recoil springs in as little as 300-400 rounds. They're like a second part time job.

Honestly, for micro gun pocket auto duty, the Seecamp .32 is still a decent option, if you must go mini.

I've owned examples of ALL of the above, except the LCP Custom (which I've shot).

They're all gone. I do have a 642, however. OMMV, FWIW, etc.

[theJanitor]

Seecamp .32 is a great pocket gun choice. I believe the Winchester silvertips were the ammo of choice

I use a Colt Pocketlite DAO. It's been dead reliable and very accurate. It was worked over by the late Jim Stroh.


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[Ed L]

IMO:

Honestly, for micro gun pocket auto duty, the Seecamp .32 is still a decent option, if you must go mini.


Seecamp .32s are not great gun choices. They often break within a few hundred rounds and then the company takes forever to fix them and is impossible to communicate with. I have had this happen with 3 different Seecamps over the years.

[BillSWPA]

My tiny .380 is a Kel-Tec P3AT, which I would recommend, with one qualification. Both of the Kel-Tec pistols I own function significantly better with Wolff recoil springs that are 2 lb. heavier than factory standard. In the case of the P3AT, I am using a 13 lb. set of springs. I also use +10% extra power magazine springs, but this change is far less critical to functioning than changing the recoil springs.

I also use a Crimson Trace LaserGuard on my gun. Under conditions in which the laser can be seen, accuracy is significantly enhanced.

I also use +0 magazine extensions to get a better grip on the gun. The extra length really helps, particularly with the LaserGuard. I find the +0 extensions to be quieter than the +1 extensions. If you are carrying the gun in a non-permissive environment, being given away by noise would not be helpful.

The Internet loves to hate Kel-Tec, but three friends who also own, shoot, and carry these pistols have been quite happy with them.


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[Irelander]

I would steer clear of the Kahr P380. My buddy, my FIL, and I each had one and all three had many issues. I liked the size for pocket or ankle carry but I had to smooth up a lot of parts and do some dremeling on the internal tab of the slide stop lever so that it would allow rounds to chamber. I finally got it working well but I had lost so much confidence in it that I sold it. My buddy's and my FIL's examples had the same issues but my buddy's also had the slide rust like crazy.

I would also remove the S&W Bodyguard from your list.

I personally think the Glock 42 is pretty small. That is the only one I would get if I was looking for a pocket .380.

I now have a 642 that will serve pocket duty.

[Hambo]

My LCP works, so I went no further. I did have Seecamps when they were the only game in town. Now I'd say there are cheaper, better, slightly larger caliber solutions.

If I were in the market for a .380 today, I'd go with a G42 or working LCP, and skip the rest. Depending on what kind of pocket carry we're talking about, a pocket shield or good holster and a 442/642 is another, and probably better, option. On that note, you might consider a J frame AIWB.

[Irelander]

The people I know who carry an LCP have never had any issues. I've also heard good things about the Keltec P3AT. My dad's is beat to crap but still runs like a champ.

[octagon]

I had a LCP, sold it to get a Diamondback DB380, sold that to get another LCP and sold that and now have a Kahr P380 and CW380. The LCPs worked fine but I didn't like the lack of slide stop holding the slide open when empty and the sights are useless. The DB380 had a great trigger and was nicer to shoot but crapped the bed so I couldn't trust it. DB customer service left some to be desired too. The Kahrs work well once they get a few hundred rounds through them and have decent but low sights as well as a slide lock that holds open on the empty magazine. The triggers are long and longish reset but smooth. I only have mine for the NPE type of deep carry but I rarely use them except for maybe beach carry with just a bathing suit shorts where it works well enough.

[CDH]

Not a .380 but s&w 360j or kimber solo may suit.

[mrozowjj]

Have you actually pocketed a 42? It's not THAT bad.


Yes I have. It was almost as large as my Walther PPS M2 and definitely would not fit in a pocket. I'm sure it's a great gun but it's not a large enough difference in size to make me want to carry it instead of the.

The conses seems to be The Ruger LCP custom... why the custom over the LCP2?

To those saying J Frame I already have a Ruger LCR which is great but I'm not as proficient with it as I am with some other options and it isn't quite pocket able either.

[41magfan]

I’ve messed around with and/or owned all of the guns on your list with the exception of the PICO. Since I have absolutely no interest in a .380 that is similar in size (or weight) of some 9’s, that narrowed the list of options for me quite a bit.

I had a 1st Gen LCP and while it was totally reliable, the trigger broke so far back that I had issues with manipulating it with my XL (glove size) hands. The 2nd Generation (Standard Model) LCP was improved in 2013 with a shorter trigger pull and enhanced sight “bumps”. To me, those slight improvements made all the difference in the world. The Custom Model - the one with real sights - was nothing but a snag looking for a place to happen and I found it totally unsuitable for pocket carry.

All of my LCP’s (about half a dozen samples and 2400 rds) have been totally reliable with zero malfunctions. I’m certain that keeping them clean and feeding them good ammo is the major contributor to that record, but I don't think I'm "lucky" in any respect regarding reliability.

I routinely shoot mine on standard LE qualification courses of fire (Day back to 25 yards & Night firing back to 15 yards) and my scores are always in the very high 90’s with just a point or two down from shooting clean. I made a single attempt at Dot Torture at 3 and 5 yards with two different LCP’s and my scores on both were clean. 7 rounds in 7 seconds on a B8 target at 10 yards resulted in a score just a few points down. I’m really not sure what more anyone could reasonably expect from a 10 oz pocket pistol.

While I don’t personally care for the new LCP II, every LCP owner that I know of shoots it better than the previous iterations so it’s obviously an improvement in the hands of most shooters. I suspect that I may be an outlier in that respect because I cut my teeth shooting revolvers and DA trigger pulls aren’t too much of an issue.

As always, YMMV.

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[Glenn E. Meyer]

I find a Glock 42 fine for pockets. Reliable - now that is crap shoot. Supposedly the new ones work. Take that with a grain of salt. Mine and a friends (just bought recently) had to go back to Glock.

[KyNate]

I every so often entertain the idea of getting a pocket 380 for those times I normally would not carry anything. I ususally talk myself out of it because I have trouble finding a pocket 380 that has a decent enough trigger and is reliable. Several years ago I bought a Ruger LCP but it would not fire worth a damn. I tried multiple types of ammo and it just wouldn't cycle. Made a return trip to Ruger to fix it and still didn't work.

Right now I am considering the following:

Kahr P380
Beretta Pico
S&W Bodyguard
Ruger LCP or LCP2
Colt Mustang
Sig P238
Glock 42


Part of me knows the Glock 42 will have a good enough trigger and be reliable but it's also so large that it negates the point if getting a gun in 380 in my opinion so I'm inclinded not to get that one.

I like the idea of the Colt and the Sig because people seem to think they are reliable and their triggers are good but I don't like the fact that they have a very small manual safety; my other carry gun is striker fired so I'm leaning towards not getting either of those.

The other Ruger LCP I had as previously stated was not reliable so it kind of soured me on the LCP, though I suppose the LCP 2 is different enough that it might be worth a try if you all seem to think it would do the trick.

I have shot a Bodyguard and it shot well enough but the trigger was very long and it has an even harder to manage safety than the Sig/Colt.

So I guess that leaves the Kahr. I like the one Kahr CW9 I had. It was a little temperamental about the magazines at first but it worked once that got sorted out. I ended up selling it because the trigger was hard to master and I shot the Shield and Walther PPS better on a timer.

I have heard nothing about the Beretta Pico other than that the trigger isn't great and the mag release is very hard to hit but I've never even seen one in person before.

So what say the hive here, are there other guns out there I'm neglecting to mention that are worth considering? Anything new coming on down the line I should wait for? Anyone have some experience with any of the models above that they could care to recommend one?

Glock 42 gets my vote!!!! The Glock 42 is a really good shooter the recoil is almost zero. Just stay away from the S&W Bodyguard 380 the smith carried like a dream but when I took it to the range for the initial test run my large hands would hit the mag release button halfway through a magazine no matter how I changed my grip this would occur I had to sell it soon after that

[mrozowjj]

I’ve messed around with and/or owned all of the guns on your list with the exception of the PICO. Since I have absolutely no interest in a .380 that is similar in size (or weight) of some 9’s, that narrowed the list of options for me quite a bit.

I had a 1st Gen LCP and while it was totally reliable, the trigger broke so far back that I had issues with manipulating it with my XL (glove size) hands. The 2nd Generation (Standard Model) LCP was improved in 2013 with a shorter trigger pull and enhanced sight “bumps”. To me, those slight improvements made all the difference in the world. The Custom Model - the one with real sights - was nothing but a snag looking for a place to happen and I found it totally unsuitable for pocket carry.

All of my LCP’s (about half a dozen samples and 2400 rds) have been totally reliable with zero malfunctions. I’m certain that keeping them clean and feeding them good ammo is the major contributor to that record, but I don't think I'm "lucky" in any respect regarding reliability.

I routinely shoot mine on standard LE qualification courses of fire (Day back to 25 yards & Night firing back to 15 yards) and my scores are always in the very high 90’s with just a point or two down from shooting clean. I made a single attempt at Dot Torture at 3 and 5 yards with two different LCP’s and my scores on both were clean. 7 rounds in 7 seconds on a B8 target at 10 yards resulted in a score just a few points down. I’m really not sure what more anyone could reasonably expect from a 10 oz pocket pistol.

While I don’t personally care for the new LCP II, every LCP owner that I know of shoots it better than the previous iterations so it’s obviously an improvement in the hands of most shooters. I suspect that I may be an outlier in that respect because I cut my teeth shooting revolvers and DA trigger pulls aren’t too much of an issue.

As always, YMMV.

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Really good notes thank you.

The LCP I had was a model with the stainless slide so I wonder if that was why mine wasn't very reliable. Have any of your LCPs been stainless models? How often do you clean them?

Why don't you like the LCP 2?

[41magfan]

Really good notes thank you.

The LCP I had was a model with the stainless slide so I wonder if that was why mine wasn't very reliable so I wonder if any of yours were Stainless too.

Why don't you like the LCP 2?

I had a stainless model briefly, one of my Brothers has a stainless model, and my Daughter has a stainless model - they all work just fine. Ruger CS is pretty darn good these days so should someone have an issue, they'll most likely make it right.

My dislike for the LCP II is purely subjective;

Personally, I can manage a 7 pound DA trigger easier than I can a 7 pound SA trigger when the gun doing the launching weighs 10 ounces. Specifically, I have tendency to lean too much on the newer trigger's "wall" than I do the "rolling break" of the older model's trigger design.

Secondly, while the sights on the LCP II are a bit larger, the dimensions leave very little "light" around the front sight and I just can't pick them up any faster than the previous design.

If I was so inclined, I could readily adapt to the new trigger and open up the rear sight notch to fix those two issues, but the last round hold open feature and the "improved" frame design just aren't worth the squeeze.

I have another concern but I don't want to even mention it unless I can replicate the issue in another shooting session.

Again, most people find the new LCP II to be a better mouse trap and I understand why - it just doesn't warrant a change for me at this point.

[GAP]

Had a Kahr, choked on everything (including gold dots) except Hornady XTP.

Sold it for a 642, painted the front sight orange, loaded it with bonded 38s... good to go.

[Totem Polar]

Seecamp .32s are not great gun choices. They often break within a few hundred rounds and then the company takes forever to fix them and is impossible to communicate with. I have had this happen with 3 different Seecamps over the years.
Sorry to hear this. I had better luck with my Seecamps. That said, they're both still gone, mainly because they come with serious limitations so far as shooting performance goes.

I'd trust a seecamp off the shelf more than a Glock 42 off the shelf, for me; clearly, everyone's experience can vary on all these guns. That said, I hasten to add that we are discussing and adding data points around which common small gun is *least* likely to crap out; pocket semiauotos are just so much more problematic than service sized machines. JMO.


I made a single attempt at Dot Torture at 3 and 5 yards with two different LCP’s and my scores on both were clean. 7 rounds in 7 seconds on a B8 target at 10 yards resulted in a score just a few points down. I’m really not sure what more anyone could reasonably expect from a 10 oz pocket pistol.


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Nice shooting, Tex.

[rathos]

LCP II. Trigger is amazing for a pocket pistol and way better than the original. Sights are actually usable and so far mine has eaten every type of ammo. It also seems to handle recoil with no issues.

[Sal Picante]

It is interesting... Kahr CW380 has been pretty reliable for me before I sold it to my buddy... He carries it daily and shoots it weekly... We've had no issues.

Kahr is goofy - some of the guns run REALLY well, then some of them run like utter dog shit.

The Kahr CW380 and P380 are really really tiny (that is why I sold it: Truckasaurus hands). They're truly "pocketable". I definitely can't pocket my PM9...

If you're leaning to the G42, and it is pretty big to pocket carry, maybe consider going to a G43 in a good AIWB holster (JM makes some nice ones)

[Shoresy]

It is interesting... Kahr CW380 has been pretty reliable for me before I sold it to my buddy... He carries it daily and shoots it weekly... We've had no issues.

Kahr is goofy - some of the guns run REALLY well, then some of them run like utter dog shit.

The Kahr CW380 and P380 are really really tiny (that is why I sold it: Truckasaurus hands). They're truly "pocketable". I definitely can't pocket my PM9...

If you're leaning to the G42, and it is pretty big to pocket carry, maybe consider going to a G43 in a good AIWB holster (JM makes some nice ones)

Interesting... I had no issue pocketing a CM9, it just wasn't all that reliable (and I didn't like the trigger and recoil spring).

[Sal Picante]

Interesting... I had no issue pocketing a CM9, it just wasn't all that reliable (and I didn't like the trigger and recoil spring).

I can pocket it in a parka or heavier clothing, but, not in summer attire...

[41magfan]

It is interesting... Kahr CW380 has been pretty reliable for me before I sold it to my buddy... He carries it daily and shoots it weekly... We've had no issues.

Kahr is goofy - some of the guns run REALLY well, then some of them run like utter dog shit.

The Kahr CW380 and P380 are really really tiny (that is why I sold it: Truckasaurus hands). They're truly "pocketable".



Yep - that's my experience as well.

I went through hundreds of rounds in two different P380's .... was inconvenienced by five or six trips back to the factory .... and ultimately one of those guns received a new frame, but they still proved to be unreliable. I could get either gun to malfunction on demand with a less than perfect grip and the variety of malfunctions would go from failures to feed to weak firing pin strikes. Shoot-ability with those little guns was VERY good however, and I really wanted them to work. But, I mentally lost faith in that platform and moved on.

The "feast or famine" Kahr paradigm being what it is, I have two friends that own multiple Kahr pistols in .380 and 9mm that work flawlessly. One of them (a CW380) I personally took from the box (brand new) and shot 100+ rounds through it without a glitch. I held the gun every wrong way possible (and still maintain control) and I couldn't get the gun to choke. The owner reports the gun continues to work 100%.

I routinely recommend Kahr's, but always with the stipulation that one be willing to part with it (usually at a loss) if it doesn't work well right out of the gate. I went through several hundred dollars worth of "break-in" ammo in my Kahr's for nothing, and that coupled with the loss I took on both guns upon selling them proved to be a rather costly experiment.

LCP's are cheap. I have carry guns and a designated training gun. When the training gun eventually pukes, Ruger will very likely give me another one.

[pastaslinger]

I have considered getting an LCP 2 since they're pretty cheap

I like the size of the Kahr but not the trigger

I think if you're going for a revolver like the LCR or a J frame you might as well get a G43 or other single stack 9mm (this goes for the G42 as well, the G43 is not that much bigger)

[Clusterfrack]

My Gen2 LCP has been good. It's much smaller than a p238 or G43, and fits a niche for me when I need a very concealable gun. The 238 has been reliable but I never use it because the G43 is about the same size.

[mrozowjj]

I went to the store today and the guy behind the counter let me compare the LCP 2, Glock 42 and my current carry gun the Walther PPS M2. (Not my actual carry gun obviously but the model they had in store.)

I learned two things:

First the new grip on the LCP is actually wider than the Glock 42. The slide is thinner but in order to make that grip more comfortable they made the gun's grip wider... and while that made it more comfortable that made me slightly less interested in the LCP 2.

Second the LCP is smaller but not that much smaller than the Glock 42; however the Glock 42 is not that much smaller than the Walther PPS M2 I currently carry.

The only reason to compromise on caliber to go from a 9mm to a 380 was to reduce weight and size but the size wasn't that substantial and either LCP, LCP 2 or Glock 42 are much lighter than my PPS but not that much lighter than a snubby... though I'd likely shoot any of the 380s better than a snubby because I'm just more familiar with them.

Basically I'm no closer to making a decision

[Oukaapie]

I had a Kahr P380 as did a friend. Neither pistol skipped a beat. Eventually sold mine to move to a S&W 642. I'll carry a PPS M2 in a jacket pocket infrequently. Realistically I seldom go anything but AIWB with a something a little bigger.

[Doc_Glock]

For pocket carry size and weight are issues. I like to keep it under 20oz including holster. That right there rules out a lot of guns including the small PM9.

My experience:

Ruger LCP: reliable for 500ish rounds very light. With Handall 2 grip it is ideal for pocket carry.

Kahr P380: unreliable had to go back.

Kel Tec P3AT: unreliable went back multiple times and sold.

Kahr PM9: reliable but too heavy.

Glock 42: exceedingly reliable and actually fun to shoot. Too big for pocket carry, marginally too heavy. I did a 2000 round test on a recent manufacture mode and it didn't skip a beat. I have an early production model that had a few early lock backs that I cured with a Dremel and has been reliable 1000 rounds with at least ten brands of defensive ammo. Love the gun, but think it is too big for pocket.

Rohrbaugh R9: beautiful but like a bar of soap to grip. Kinda fragile.

[camsdaddy]

Currently the only pocketable guns I own are a 43 and a s&w 60. I have considered a 380. I can't decide if need one or not. While the 43 is pocketable it doesn't disappear like an LCP would. I shoot the 43 as good as anything I own short of maybe a 4" 586. I wonder if the 42 will be small enough to make a difference. The draw for the 42 is the familiarity with the 43 and my other glocks. I like the size of the lcp and the one time I've shot one I was surprised by the shoot ability and accuracy. Another thought is do I want to load for another caliber? This always brings me back to do I simply stay with a j frame for a pocket sized pocket gun.

[Lynskey]

Lots of opinions here and all are valid...........for the individuals who posted them.

I have a Glock 42 and it shoots well. I also have a Glock 43 and the difference between the two size wise is not that great. For me, anywhere I can carry a G42 in .380 I can carry a G43 in the more robust 9mm. Some of that may depend on your build as I am 6'2" with a lean frame.

For you, the size of the gun is an important consideration. Last summer I was in the same situation as I wanted a very small gun for a specific carry purpose. So, we're talkin about a micro sized gun in .380. My G42 was just a little too large for my purpose. I looked at a number of .380s and finally settled on a Kahr CW380.

I was familiar with Kahr since my very fine P9 was my warm weather carry gun for eight years. Although Kahr recommends a 200 round break-in period my P9 has not had one bobble in over 2000 rounds of various range and self defense ammo. It just plain works. First range trip with the CW380 I took 100 rounds of WWB and 100 rounds of American Eagle. Two jams in the first box, one jam in the second and none after that.

500 rounds later with a mix of those two brands of range ammo and Gold Dots and the Kahr CW380 has functioned perfectly. Just my experience.

[BillSWPA]

If you are looking for the most significant size difference compared to your current gun then the P3AT or LCP (original, not the II) would seem to be the best choice.



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[Clusterfrack]

LCP Gen2, pocket shark holster

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[Mr. Goodtimes]

442 or 642. I know this isn't .380, which is one reason why it's the best .380.


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[Cookie Monster]

I pocket carry a 42 everyday. I found pants with big pockets. I carry a double spare mag on a pocket shield in the other pocket.

It's a 42 or a snub. I pocketed a 26 for a few years. That's a brick.

[mrozowjj]

442 or 642. I know this isn't .380, which is one reason why it's the best .380.


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I have a Ruger LCR. It's fine but it's not physically that small actually. It's is very light. I'm not that great with it in terms of getting shots on paper while on the clock. Not super great with the double action trigger.

[LJP]

While not included in your list of possibles, may I suggest the Remington RM380? I know that Remington has a pretty crappy rep these days post R51 debacle, but I would counter that the RM380 is a very different gun with Rohrbaugh lineage. I have one with roughly 350 trouble free rounds through it so far. Best trigger (although it is a long DAO trigger) that I've found in a pocket gun. Compared to my buddy's LCP, the trigger is phenomenal. THe gun is roughly the same profile as an LCP, but slightly wider. The sights are lacking, but that's really the only downside I can identify. Desantis offers a number of holster options for it, as do other manufacturers. Just this past weekend, I shot mine in Chuck Haggard's "Pocket Poppers" class at the Rangemaster Tac Con and was quite happy with it. Shot the old Atlanta PD 2nd weapon qualification with a 240/250, and I'm not a great shot. As far as pocket guns go, it is very nice to shoot.

[Palmetto]

I would add to the Kahr support above. I've carried a CW9 for many years. When my LGS had a $100 off all Kahr sale, a CT380 came home.

I usually pocket carry my 442, but after the 200-round break-in I find my CT380 in my pocket more and more. 7+1 in less than 16 ounces. The CW380 has a shorter grip which may suit you better. But compare CT380 to Glock 42 and you might be surprised.

Another note, I like revolvers and TDA pistols so the Kahr trigger "fits" me, if you aren't used to it and you like short resets this may not be for you.

Kahr Break-in period: I had three failure to return to battery in first 200 rounds which is common. I'm now at 450 rounds with no further stoppages. I've shot six different types of ammo and all different weights and hollow points have worked well.

I have 3,000-4,000 rounds through my CW9 with the only stoppage being induced by me demonstrating a severe limp wrist to a new shooter.


__________________________________________________ ________
SC motto - Dum spiro spero // While I breathe, I hope!

"Gun control is hitting what I aim at...not someone infringing on my 2nd Amendment Rights."

[brewmeister]

I'm kind of in the same shoes...I carry a PPQ daily, but for days where I wear gym shorts/clothing with no belt, I would still like to carry something. I think a small gun like a G42 in a Keepers Errand, or a JMCK Universal would be the way to go-- light enough to belt carry without dragging my shorts down. While I would prefer to stick with the 9mm, I figure extra ounces of a loaded G43 over a G42 would be much more noticeable.

I'm still leaning heavily towards the G42, but, like the OP, I'm still no closer towards a decision LOL.

[Soggy]

I had an LCP but didn't trust it. Neither it nor a j frame could be pocket carried very well (for me) in anything other than baggy cargo shorts, so I stepped up to a Shield in an aiwb and untucked shirts. For real "concealability" with dress cloths I am thinking of getting a baby browning in .25. The 380's just aren't small enough, so I'm afraid the option is .25 or nothing for when I can't carry the Shield (which I can carry ~90% of the time).

[BillSWPA]

I briefly owned a .25. The only time I shot it, two bullets hit my wooden target frame. Each one penetrated about 3/16 inch, and then dropped to the ground undamaged. A .22 lr. from my 1 1/8 inch barrel mini revolver will penetrate significantly farther into the same wood. I sold the .25 after that experience.


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[Soggy]

I briefly owned a .25. The only time I shot it, two bullets hit my wooden target frame. Each one penetrated about 3/16 inch, and then dropped to the ground undamaged. A .22 lr. from my 1 1/8 inch barrel mini revolver will penetrate significantly farther into the same wood. I sold the .25 after that experience.


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Interesting, thanks for the info. I wasn't expecting it to be very effective, but not that bad.

[BillSWPA]

If size is that critical, take a look at a North American Arms .32. These are about as tiny as a semiauto gets but hit about twice as hard as a .22 or .25.


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[TGS]

I'm still a fan of my Micro Desert Eagle that I wrote about (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5635-380-Pocket-Carry&p=95976&viewfull=1#post95976) a few years ago.

Something to consider that hasn't been mentioned.

[41magfan]

Interesting, thanks for the info. I wasn't expecting it to be very effective, but not that bad.

I've stood over too many dead bodies to dismiss the lowly .25 as being lethal, but there are too many better choices these days.

The Baby Browning you mentioned is a fine little pistol for what it is, but I wouldn't carry one again unless it was all I had. All three of these little pocket guns weigh within an ounce or two of each other and all three are all equally concealable in a pocket with the right holster. In other words, the LCP is just as easy to carry as the other two which are inferior options, IMO.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/zqOZvB.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0zqOZvBj)

If you have a legitimate need to go uber small, consider a .22 Magnum version of the little NAA revolvers and spend some time learning to shoot it.

Here's a little "War Story" about a Baby Browning:

I knew a "rough as a cob" guy that ran a Gas Station (yea I know, this was some time back) that carried a little Browning .25 in his pocket everywhere he went. I would stop by there several times a week while on-duty and shoot the bull with this fella who was quite a character to say the least.

He knew I was a gun person, so a couple of times a year he would hand me that little gun and asked me to clean it. It would be all covered in lint, residue and be dry as a bone. The last time he asked me to give it some attention, he said: "I've got to start carrying something else ..... sometimes when I shoot this thing it only shoots once before it jams." Come to find out, he had actually fired a "warning" shot (his words) a few days previously at a thief, and the gun had malfunctioned.

I couldn't help but wonder how that "one-shot" Browning might have saved him from some legal hardship.

[Soggy]

If size is that critical, take a look at a North American Arms .32. These are about as tiny as a semiauto gets but hit about twice as hard as a .22 or .25.


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I'm still a fan of my Micro Desert Eagle that I wrote about (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?5635-380-Pocket-Carry&p=95976&viewfull=1#post95976) a few years ago.

Something to consider that hasn't been mentioned.


I've stood over too many dead bodies to dismiss the lowly .25 as being lethal, but there are too many better choices these days.

The Baby Browning you mentioned is a fine little pistol for what it is, but I wouldn't carry one again unless it was all I had. All three of these little pocket guns weigh within an ounce or two of each other and all three are all equally concealable in a pocket with the right holster. In other words, the LCP is just as easy to carry as the other two which are inferior options, IMO.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/540/zqOZvB.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/f0zqOZvBj)

If you have a legitimate need to go uber small, consider a .22 Magnum version of the little NAA revolvers and spend some time learning to shoot it.


Interesting options thanks, I'll try and get a look at all 3.

I just couldn't get an LCP to work for me (and my copy malfunctioned with some frequency).

[Gadfly]

Random .380 thoughts and comments....

I actually mocked the Beretta Pico when I saw it at the NRA convention the year it was released. The mag release sucked, and it was sooo tiny. Then, my buddy who owns a range got one in. We went to shoot it, mostly to make fun of it. Damn, I liked it. It ran ( about 100 rounds total) right out of the box and dry. It was accurate and the trigger was not bad. The mag release?? It still sucked, BUT, we all know that small guns in pockets can have their mag release tripped if your pants snug up when you sit. The Pico's pull down release is lower profile than a euro heel release, and wont accidentally drop the mag. Lets face it, the type of guy who only carries a Pico probably wont be packing spare mags for a prolonged shoot out. Overall, the little gun was very shootable, and better than expected. But I still don't own one.

Shot a Taurus Curve the same range owner had. We "torture tested" it for about 300 rounds. I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe average mean rounds between stoppages was 11. That's not counting when the mag would just fall out during shooting....which it did.... often... We gave up going to 500 rounds on that turd.

I really like the 42's I have shot. But, as noted, they are a tad bigger than most, and the squared off slide likes to print. But, with that size comes reliability AND real replaceable sights. I would lean this way for a .380...

The worst .380 I fired was a PPK. An all steel piston in 380 should not hurt. It did. That was an uncomfortable shooting experience. It ran, but I would hate to own one.

The sleeper .380? The LCP Custom. The one with a red aluminum trigger. The only LCP I liked. Real sights and a Decent trigger. If I had to go deep pockets, that would be on my short list. The regular LCP? Meh...

I had a Kel Tec P3AT. Why? When you get it off a friend for less then $100, you experiment. I also ended up with a P32... Both so rusty, gunked up and filthy that they could not get through a mag. Lots of steel wool and oil later, they both run. I like the size, but i would not bet my life on them... I already sold off the P3AT. Anyone want a .32???

[Duelist]

Random .380 thoughts and comments....

I actually mocked the Beretta Pico when I saw it at the NRA convention the year it was released. The mag release sucked, and it was sooo tiny. Then, my buddy who owns a range got one in. We went to shoot it, mostly to make fun of it. Damn, I liked it. It ran ( about 100 rounds total) right out of the box and dry. It was accurate and the trigger was not bad. The mag release?? It still sucked, BUT, we all know that small guns in pockets can have their mag release tripped if your pants snug up when you sit. The Pico's pull down release is lower profile than a euro heel release, and wont accidentally drop the mag. Lets face it, the type of guy who only carries a Pico probably wont be packing spare mags for a prolonged shoot out. Overall, the little gun was very shootable, and better than expected. But I still don't own one.

Shot a Taurus Curve the same range owner had. We "torture tested" it for about 300 rounds. I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe average mean rounds between stoppages was 11. That's not counting when the mag would just fall out during shooting....which it did.... often... We gave up going to 500 rounds on that turd.

I really like the 42's I have shot. But, as noted, they are a tad bigger than most, and the squared off slide likes to print. But, with that size comes reliability AND real replaceable sights. I would lean this way for a .380...

The worst .380 I fired was a PPK. An all steel piston in 380 should not hurt. It did. That was an uncomfortable shooting experience. It ran, but I would hate to own one.

The sleeper .380? The LCP Custom. The one with a red aluminum trigger. The only LCP I liked. Real sights and a Decent trigger. If I had to go deep pockets, that would be on my short list. The regular LCP? Meh...

I had a Kel Tec P3AT. Why? When you get it off a friend for less then $100, you experiment. I also ended up with a P32... Both so rusty, gunked up and filthy that they could not get through a mag. Lots of steel wool and oil later, they both run. I like the size, but i would not bet my life on them... I already sold off the P3AT. Anyone want a .32???

I got a P32 for $100, used. It's never jammed - but I only have 2 or 3 hundred rounds through it. I'd take another functioning one in a heartbeat. .32 in a gun that size is a lot more pleasant than .380, and .32 ball penetrates about 12". They fit places nothing else will, weigh about as much as a cell phone, and if you work in a for-real NPE, may be the only choice if you have to carry there. Doesn't meant it's my favorite, or that I carry it much, but it works, and I can carry it places I can't carry anything else.

[BillSWPA]

I got a P32 for $100, used. It's never jammed - but I only have 2 or 3 hundred rounds through it. I'd take another functioning one in a heartbeat. .32 in a gun that size is a lot more pleasant than .380, and .32 ball penetrates about 12". They fit places nothing else will, weigh about as much as a cell phone, and if you work in a for-real NPE, may be the only choice if you have to carry there. Doesn't meant it's my favorite, or that I carry it much, but it works, and I can carry it places I can't carry anything else.

Many years ago, my P-32 was my NPE gun as well as my BUG. It is currently the only gun I can (sometimes) get my wife to carry. It is easily the most pleasant mousegun above .22 or .25 to shoot. The same Crimson Trace LaserGuard that fits the P3AT will fit this gun.

Be sure to get the Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs, which will eliminate one of the two possible problems caused by the semi-rimmed .32 case.



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[Duelist]

Many years ago, my P-32 was my NPE gun as well as my BUG. It is currently the only gun I can (sometimes) get my wife to carry. It is easily the most pleasant mousegun above .22 or .25 to shoot. The same Crimson Trace LaserGuard that fits the P3AT will fit this gun.

Be sure to get the Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs, which will eliminate one of the two possible problems caused by the semi-rimmed .32 case.



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It's the only gun my wife will (sometimes) carry, too.

[Rex G]

I have a Kramer pocket holster made to fit the PPK and PPK/s, in which I tote my PPK/s when I feel a need for something that small. Considering that I am carrying a Ruger SP101 in a Kramer pocket holster at this moment in time, the tiny, slender PPK/s is easy to tote. I have found that I do not like to carry anything smaller than a PPK/s, with flat magazine base-plate, for defensive purposes. (My skinny fingers can all fit, without the need for the finger-extension base-plate.) I am not trying to convert anyone to this aging platform; I have time with it, and have not yet seen any compelling reason to replace it just yet, as an SP101 or G26 is my usual minimum firearm, anyway. (A G26 is a bit too wide and blocky to be my idea of a pocket weapon.)

Having said that, I rarely use pocket carry outside the walls of the house, for my primary/go-to handgun, due to the glaringly obvious tactical disadvantages of pocket carry in dynamic situations. (Yes, I know pocket carry enables one to have a hand on the gun while seemingly casually strolling along; that is not a normal primary weapon scenario for me.) This being the Hardware section of the forums, I will not go into further detail.

I have a Seecamp, but it is the LWS-32. I love it, but see it is a niche weapon, for very special circumstances.

I have my eye on the G42, as an eventual experiment.

[mrozowjj]

Random .380 thoughts and comments....

I actually mocked the Beretta Pico when I saw it at the NRA convention the year it was released. The mag release sucked, and it was sooo tiny. Then, my buddy who owns a range got one in. We went to shoot it, mostly to make fun of it. Damn, I liked it. It ran ( about 100 rounds total) right out of the box and dry. It was accurate and the trigger was not bad. The mag release?? It still sucked, BUT, we all know that small guns in pockets can have their mag release tripped if your pants snug up when you sit. The Pico's pull down release is lower profile than a euro heel release, and wont accidentally drop the mag. Lets face it, the type of guy who only carries a Pico probably wont be packing spare mags for a prolonged shoot out. Overall, the little gun was very shootable, and better than expected. But I still don't own one.

Shot a Taurus Curve the same range owner had. We "torture tested" it for about 300 rounds. I don't have the exact numbers, but I believe average mean rounds between stoppages was 11. That's not counting when the mag would just fall out during shooting....which it did.... often... We gave up going to 500 rounds on that turd.

I really like the 42's I have shot. But, as noted, they are a tad bigger than most, and the squared off slide likes to print. But, with that size comes reliability AND real replaceable sights. I would lean this way for a .380...

The worst .380 I fired was a PPK. An all steel piston in 380 should not hurt. It did. That was an uncomfortable shooting experience. It ran, but I would hate to own one.

The sleeper .380? The LCP Custom. The one with a red aluminum trigger. The only LCP I liked. Real sights and a Decent trigger. If I had to go deep pockets, that would be on my short list. The regular LCP? Meh...

I had a Kel Tec P3AT. Why? When you get it off a friend for less then $100, you experiment. I also ended up with a P32... Both so rusty, gunked up and filthy that they could not get through a mag. Lots of steel wool and oil later, they both run. I like the size, but i would not bet my life on them... I already sold off the P3AT. Anyone want a .32???


You are so far the only person that seems to like the Pico. I really want to like that gun because the LCP I had malfunctioned and though I seem to be the only one to have an LCP that just would not work it still makes me very reluctant to give the LCP another try. Which is why I really want to like the Pico but so far there are very few favorable reviews out there.

I am not surprised that the Taurus was a turd.

That said just what else is different about the LCP custom outside of the trigger itself? Have they done anything else to it to make it more reliable perhaps?

[Gadfly]

You are so far the only person that seems to like the Pico.

That said just what else is different about the LCP custom outside of the trigger itself? Have they done anything else to it to make it more reliable perhaps?

The pico was simply better that I expected. If you don't care about speed loads, it works. Only a limited number of rounds mind you...

The lcp custom has a better trigger, and real sights. Actually dove tails... they could be rounded off some, but that would be an easy few minutes with a file.

[mrozowjj]

The pico was simply better that I expected. If you don't care about speed loads, it works. Only a limited number of rounds mind you...

The lcp custom has a better trigger, and real sights. Actually dove tails... they could be rounded off some, but that would be an easy few minutes with a file.

I can't imagine I'm going to speed reload a 380. In my mind I consider the pocket 380 as an alternative to the times when I for one reason or another simply can't carry anything else so less of a "I really wish I had another 6-12 rounds" but more of a "At least I had 6-7 rounds because it would have been so much worse if I had none."

[mrozowjj]

Well I decided to try my luck with the Ruger LCP 2

I'm going to the range tomorrow to test it out and see how it shoots. I hope I have better luck than my my original LCP

I think I'm going to clean it to get all the factory stuff off there and make sure it's lubed properly. Any tips for that or for ammo that works well with it?

15276

[41magfan]

My LCP's work just fine with any number of light weight lubricants I have on hand and I don't run them particularly wet.

As for ammo, I'd stay away from European steel-cased junk (Tula, Wolf, et al), but other than that our guns haven't had any problems with hardball or expanding bullet offerings from Federal, Speer, Winchester, Hornady, Remington and PMC. I bought a case of GECO hardball a year or so back and they shot so well I bought another case.

[Drew78]

Only thing my LCP's have choked on is the Hornaday critical defense. I carry Hornaday xtp in it and they have performed well with no stoppages.

[spinmove_]

Hornady*


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[mrozowjj]

I cleaned it up and I'm glad I did because there was some thick brown grease or lube or whatever from the factory in the gun that I'm glad I got out of there.

I have some Federal and Armscor FMJ and some Colt copper JHP that I got at the store I'm going to try in the gun tomorrow. We'll see how it goes.

[mrozowjj]

I went to the range today with the gun and I fired a 70 rounds, only 10 of the Colt JHP and the rest was a mix of the Armscor and Federal FMJ. I experienced 8 failures in total, 5 failure to feeds, two stovepipes, and one failure to eject.

I have a feeling I have committed yet another mistake in purchasing this Ruger. I should have followed my gut and ignored everyone here saying their Rugers have been flawless after my experience with the first LCP. Guess I learned my lesson. I'm going to call Ruger tomorrow.

[LockedBreech]

That sucks, man. My LCP has had a perfect 1,000 rounds or so, but if I had been burned twice on a gun I think I would be done with it too. I hope Ruger makes it right for you.


I went to the range today with the gun and I fired a 70 rounds, only 10 of the Colt JHP and the rest was a mix of the Armscor and Federal FMJ. I experienced 8 failures in total, 5 failure to feeds, two stovepipes, and one failure to eject.

I have a feeling I have committed yet another mistake in purchasing this Ruger. I should have followed my gut and ignored everyone here saying their Rugers have been flawless after my experience with the first LCP. Guess I learned my lesson. I'm going to call Ruger tomorrow.

[Drang]

I went to the range today with the gun and I fired a 70 rounds, only 10 of the Colt JHP and the rest was a mix of the Armscor and Federal FMJ. I experienced 8 failures in total, 5 failure to feeds, two stovepipes, and one failure to eject.
Did you keep track of which rounds had the failures? How about the magazines?

[mrozowjj]

Did you keep track of which rounds had the failures? How about the magazines?

The gun only came with one magazine so it's all I have. I wasn't about to buy more magazines until I saw if the gun worked. Failures occurred with all ammo types. I started with 35 rounds of the Armscor and after the first 4 failures I switched it up and tried 5 rounds of the Colt and that worked. I then switched to the Federal and fired 10 rounds of Federal and 5 more round of the Colt experiencing 2 more failures. Decided to finish off the box of Armscor at that point because I only had 15 rounds left of the Armscor. Finished box of Armscor and had 2 more failures. In that first 35 rounds a friend fired off a magazine so one of those FTFs was during his run.

Decided that was enough failing for one day and packed the gun away. Pulled out my XDm 5.25" model in 45 that I use for IDPA CDP sometimes. Did this with it at 10 yards and 6 rounds so the range session wasn't a complete waste. Orange circle is 4 inches for reference.

15309

[Arbninftry]

I have handled only three LCPs, and they all had a false reset. When you pulled the trigger, you had to let it out all the way. If you shorted it, they had a false click, and dead trigger. I do not know if this is with all or just the three I have shot. Again only a sample of three.

[MSparks909]

Armscor isn't the gold standard of ammunition. My buddy had a bunch of issues with some Armscor 22 TCM ammo. Wouldn't surprise me if their 9mm wasn't up to par either.

[mrozowjj]

I have handled only three LCPs, and they all had a false reset. When you pulled the trigger, you had to let it out all the way. If you shorted it, they had a false click, and dead trigger. I do not know if this is with all or just the three I have shot. Again only a sample of three.

The original LCP has two reset points. You have the let the trigger out completely for it to actually reset. I don't know about the dead trigger but the LCP I tried out in the store wouldn't let you pull the trigger rearward again at the first reset point, you had to led it out all the way before it would let you cycle it again.

The LCP II trigger is substantially better, shorter pull shorter reset a bit lighter overall, a big improvement. Recoil isn't that bad either, certainly not pleasurable but it didn't beat me up like a S&W 442 or Ruger LCR does. Accuracy also wasn't bad, certainly serviceable at 5 and 7 yards; all shots were within 4 inches at those distance with slow fire and with rapid fire all were kept on a NRA B-29 target (reduced size B-27 silhouette on a 14" x 22" piece of paper designed to be shot at 50 ft... they were cheap) at those distances. If the thing would actually run ammo it would be a nice little piece.

[Arbninftry]

The original LCP has two reset points. You have the let the trigger out completely for it to actually reset. I don't know about the dead trigger but the LCP I tried out in the store wouldn't let you pull the trigger rearward again at the first reset point, you had to led it out all the way before it would let you cycle it again.


That is the dead trigger issue I was referring too.

[ca survivor]

out of those I would pick the Sig 238 and please do not get the Pico go with anything else on your list but the Pico.

[mrozowjj]

I called Ruger today and I'm going to mail them the gun. We'll see how long this takes and if they actually fix it. With my first LCP they did not.

[mrozowjj]

Ruger has been mailed to their warranty center in AZ. Let's see how long it takes to fix... and if it actually is returned fixed. With the original LCP it still jammed up like crazy after a trip to their factory so I'm kind of skeptical at this point. I hope it works and I hope I'm wrong but I think there's a good probability there's a Glock 42 in my future.

[Palmetto]

Ruger has been mailed to their warranty center in AZ. Let's see how long it takes to fix... and if it actually is returned fixed. With the original LCP it still jammed up like crazy after a trip to their factory so I'm kind of skeptical at this point. I hope it works and I hope I'm wrong but I think there's a good probability there's a Glock 42 in my future.
You might look for CT380 while waiting on your LCP. I can't speak highly enough about mine. At 25 yards I can ring the 4" gong with every shot. Occasionally I'll drop one from recoil anticipation.

I'm at 500 rounds. No stoppages since round 80 (inside te perscribed break in)



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[MattyD380]

Have you considered any of the "old school blowbacks"? PPK, Sig P230/P232, Makarov, Bersa, etc.

Yes, they're a little bit larger. Yes, they're old fashioned. But... compared to most of the options mentioned here, I'd say they're more capable shooters with much higher potential for accuracy. A Sig P230 was my first gun ever, and, even when I couldn't shoot worth a damn (I dunno, maybe I still can't) I did pretty well with that gun. I'd kinda like to get another one at some point just to see how I'd do now that I've been shooting for a few years.

I currently have a Polish P64 (it's 9x18... but basically a 380). The trigger is numb feeling. The kick is horrible. The ergonomics are... silly. Yet I've been able to shoot circles with that gun around Shields and P238s, etc.

Just a thought...

[cclaxton]

1st place: Sig P238 (Or Kimber Micro)
2nd place: S&W Bodyguard or Glock 42
3rd place: S&W Airweight 38 special
4th Place: Kahr 380
I tried the Rugers and Keltecs and they have awful triggers.
Cody

[Joe in PNG]

Have you considered any of the "old school blowbacks"? PPK, Sig P230/P232, Makarov, Bersa, etc.

Yes, they're a little bit larger. Yes, they're old fashioned. But... compared to most of the options mentioned here, I'd say they're more capable shooters with much higher potential for accuracy. A Sig P230 was my first gun ever, and, even when I couldn't shoot worth a damn (I dunno, maybe I still can't) I did pretty well with that gun. I'd kinda like to get another one at some point just to see how I'd do now that I've been shooting for a few years.

I currently have a Polish P64 (it's 9x18... but basically a 380). The trigger is numb feeling. The kick is horrible. The ergonomics are... silly. Yet I've been able to shoot circles with that gun around Shields and P238s, etc.

Just a thought...

The thing is, the PPK is horrible, horrible, horrible. The sights suck, the trigger sucks, the ergos suck, and the gun is as bitey as a feral racoon. I can carry a Shield in roughly the same amount of space, and I get proper sights, a better trigger, and can come home without covering my hand in bandaids.

[mrozowjj]

You might look for CT380 while waiting on your LCP. I can't speak highly enough about mine. At 25 yards I can ring the 4" gong with every shot. Occasionally I'll drop one from recoil anticipation.

I'm at 500 rounds. No stoppages since round 80 (inside te perscribed break in)


As much as I liked the Kahr I owned I could not shoot it well at speeds. It was very smooth but the reset was very long and that is why I struggle with snub nose revolvers.




Have you considered any of the "old school blowbacks"? PPK, Sig P230/P232, Makarov, Bersa, etc.

Yes, they're a little bit larger. Yes, they're old fashioned. But... compared to most of the options mentioned here, I'd say they're more capable shooters with much higher potential for accuracy. A Sig P230 was my first gun ever, and, even when I couldn't shoot worth a damn (I dunno, maybe I still can't) I did pretty well with that gun. I'd kinda like to get another one at some point just to see how I'd do now that I've been shooting for a few years.

I currently have a Polish P64 (it's 9x18... but basically a 380). The trigger is numb feeling. The kick is horrible. The ergonomics are... silly. Yet I've been able to shoot circles with that gun around Shields and P238s, etc.

Just a thought...

I currently mostly carry a Walther PPS M2. I shoot it well. It is already very small and light. The only reason I'm looking at a 380 is for those times when I would like something even smaller and/or lighter. The Ruger LCP 2 is both smaller and lighter.

If the LCP 2 ends up being a turd I'd consider the Glock 42 because while it isn't that much smaller than the PPS it is still lighter than the Walther PPS M2 by a good 7 oz so it could replace my snub-nose revolver (It's about as large as the Walther PPS M2 as well so I really only carry it when I want to toss on something quick)

The Walther PPK is basically the same size as the PPS M2 and the PPK is heavier by an ounce... that's not much heavier but it's still heavier and that no go for me. If I want a heavier gun I'll carry the PPQ.

[Palmetto]

I understand about long reset. I shoot DA revolvers, Kahr and TDA pistols so that's my preference.

Agree with your thoughts on PPK. Had one and it is not pleasant. I think the fixed barrel design adds to recoil impulse.

I briefly had a Sig P230 Stainless. Beautiful piece of work. But same problem as PPK only with better ergonomics.

Glock 42 is hard to beat. I've heard Apex is finishing a flat trigger for it and the "Gadget" is in development fir 42 & 43 models


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[mrozowjj]

I understand about long reset. I shoot DA revolvers, Kahr and TDA pistols so that's my preference.

Agree with your thoughts on PPK. Had one and it is not pleasant. I think the fixed barrel design adds to recoil impulse.

I briefly had a Sig P230 Stainless. Beautiful piece of work. But same problem as PPK only with better ergonomics.

Glock 42 is hard to beat. I've heard Apex is finishing a flat trigger for it and the "Gadget" is in development fir 42 & 43 models



For a revolver shooter the Kahr guns are amazing. It's basically a buttery smooth DAO revolver trigger on a slim semi auto. I have shot the ones I shot very accuracy when going slow on a range but the second I tried to shoot it on a timer I found myself either shooting a wider spread or needing to slow down a lot more than I normally do to make sure I made my hits and I suppose I could do that by learning the trigger better but I don't really want to... not when I have other options that work well and I don't have to relearn.

I'd throw a gadget on a 42 but I don't know if I'd bother with a fancier trigger. I still have to wait to see if I even need one. The LCP II has arrived in Phoenix and will get to their factory tomorrow.

[MattyD380]

I've never actually shot a PPK. Though I'd venture to say my P64 is similar... but worse in every way. Far worse.

The point is, though, the gun (for me anyway) outshoots the teeny pocket .380s. Quite handily in fact. Or at least until your hand is bruised, bloody and trembling in fear.

I did actually have a PP for a while. It was in 7.65, though, so the recoil wasn't bad. The ergos did suck (not as bad as the P64) but I thought the trigger was fine. It shot well also.

[MattyD380]

I currently mostly carry a Walther PPS M2. I shoot it well. It is already very small and light. The only reason I'm looking at a 380 is for those times when I would like something even smaller and/or lighter. The Ruger LCP 2 is both smaller and lighter.

If the LCP 2 ends up being a turd I'd consider the Glock 42 because while it isn't that much smaller than the PPS it is still lighter than the Walther PPS M2 by a good 7 oz so it could replace my snub-nose revolver (It's about as large as the Walther PPS M2 as well so I really only carry it when I want to toss on something quick)

The Walther PPK is basically the same size as the PPS M2 and the PPK is heavier by an ounce... that's not much heavier but it's still heavier and that no go for me. If I want a heavier gun I'll carry the PPQ.

Gotcha. That makes sense. The LCPs and P380s of the world are in a class of size and weight unto themselves. Personally, I don't shoot the Shield/PPS/XDS genre of guns all that well... so, if I had to strictly stay in that size niche or smaller... I'd probably opt for something Sig P230-ish or Makarov-ish. I do carry the P64 on occasions. Though I find my Sig P239 isn't really size prohibitive for most situations. So the P64 mainly pulls glove box duty.

[Joe in PNG]

I've never actually shot a PPK. Though I'd venture to say my P64 is similar... but worse in every way. Far worse.

I owned the Interams version a few years back, and it was miserable. Worse than my buddy's Makarov.

[Rex G]

Regarding the classic little Walthers, I found a PPK/s to be very much more tolerable than a PPK, with both being .380, and my wife's .380 PP to be noticeably more comfortable than the PPK/s. The PPK is, for me, a step past the point of diminishing returns.

Interestingly, the beavertail on the domestically-made dash-one "Walthers" makes me bleed quickest of all, by rasping its quick hole in my hand, with just a few shots fired.

[TheNewbie]

Regarding the classic little Walthers, I found a PPK/s to be very much more tolerable than a PPK, with both being .380, and my wife's .380 PP to be noticeably more comfortable than the PPK/s. The PPK is, for me, a step past the point of diminishing returns.

Interestingly, the beavertail on the domestically-made dash-one "Walthers" makes me bleed quickest of all, by rasping its quick hole in my hand, with just a few shots fired.

Where your Walters reliable? I wonder how the .32 would feel in them.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

G42 - update - when I first got it, it was an early horror. Jammed, fired out of battery (quite exciting). Sent it back and it seemed to run. As I said elsewhere, this past Sunday, I had three failure to load a round with a rack. The slide wouldn't move back and I had to take out the mag and try again. I thought I had isolated a bad mag as it did chamber rounds other times. So I took all my mags - and ran them through the gun and all chambered this time. Ammo tried - Round nose FMJ, Critical Defense, and WWB FMJ with that flat nose.

So I don't know happened. As far as shooting - it was fine. Get a good grip and it's quite accurate. My misses were when I let it squirm.

[Rex G]

Where your Walters reliable? I wonder how the .32 would feel in them.

My made-in-USA-by-S&W pseudo-Walthers were not reliable. I tried as many as three, both PPK and PPK/s-1, before giving up on them.

My stainless steel pre-S&W Interarms PPK was reliable, but the muzzle flip was annoying, as it affected shot-to-shot recovery. I might have kept it, except that I knew my wife's German PP was a joy to shoot. Thick, sticky rubber Pachmayr grips probably would have helped, but then the weapon would be too large for the trouble, and well, of course, stick to everything. That is why I tried an S&W-made pseudo-PPK and PPK/s-1, with with beavertails, which ate holes in my hand.

My current West German PPK/s had one malf (minor FTF) in the first couple of hundred rounds. I am still working my way through its 500-rounds of break-in ball ammo, which, if successful, will be followed by a few hundred rounds of carry ammo, before I decide to trust it.

I keep trying to trade something for my wife's boringly-reliable German PP. She will not hear of it.

A notable difference between our German PP and PPK/s pistols, is that my wife's PP will not slide-bite me, whereas my PPK/s will gradually wear those distinctive grooves, during a range session, unless I wear gloves. Fortunately, from a training perspective, the PPK/s is a very natural pointer for me, so high-volume training with the PPK/s, itself, is not needed.

Realistically, I am probably going to acquire a G42 relatively soon, which will relegate the beautifully-blued PPK/s to barbecue-gun status.

[AlwaysLearning]

Friend of mine owns a 232 with the aluminum frame. Very accurate weapon. I couldn't deal with the DA first shot (this is before I learned about the press-out), but it was easy to shoot in SA. Did have a little recoil sting to it given the weight of the weapon and the loads my friend carries in it.

I have medium sized hands and I did not experience any slide bite. Vastly preferred it to the one PPK I shot which was awful.

[mrozowjj]

G42 - update - when I first got it, it was an early horror. Jammed, fired out of battery (quite exciting). Sent it back and it seemed to run. As I said elsewhere, this past Sunday, I had three failure to load a round with a rack. The slide wouldn't move back and I had to take out the mag and try again. I thought I had isolated a bad mag as it did chamber rounds other times. So I took all my mags - and ran them through the gun and all chambered this time. Ammo tried - Round nose FMJ, Critical Defense, and WWB FMJ with that flat nose.

So I don't know happened. As far as shooting - it was fine. Get a good grip and it's quite accurate. My misses were when I let it squirm.

Well that fills me with a bit of dread. I thought the Glock was supposed to be the reliable one.

[Doc_Glock]

Well that fills me with a bit of dread. I thought the Glock was supposed to be the reliable one.

I ran a 42 out of the box for 2000 rounds with zero lube or cleaning and no malfunctions other than a backwards primer from Winchester.

I have a second one with 1000+ rounds. I think they are good to go.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170412/bd5b6734a427c0aec31de192de56e516.jpg

CDNN has these improved LCP's with the enhanced trigger and real sights, in today's email flyer.


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[johnnywitt]

I went to the store today and the guy behind the counter let me compare the LCP 2, Glock 42 and my current carry gun the Walther PPS M2. (Not my actual carry gun obviously but the model they had in store.)

I learned two things:

First the new grip on the LCP is actually wider than the Glock 42. The slide is thinner but in order to make that grip more comfortable they made the gun's grip wider... and while that made it more comfortable that made me slightly less interested in the LCP 2.

Second the LCP is smaller but not that much smaller than the Glock 42; however the Glock 42 is not that much smaller than the Walther PPS M2 I currently carry.

The only reason to compromise on caliber to go from a 9mm to a 380 was to reduce weight and size but the size wasn't that substantial and either LCP, LCP 2 or Glock 42 are much lighter than my PPS but not that much lighter than a snubby... though I'd likely shoot any of the 380s better than a snubby because I'm just more familiar with them.

Basically I'm no closer to making a decision

I 100% agree with what you are saying, which is why I carry a Chromed Kel-Tec P-32. 8rds & 8oz. I load it with real .32acp, either S&B 73gr, or Fiocchi 73gr (it needs to say 7.65 Browning on the box somewhere & you're good). The recoil is way lighter than a .380 and more rounds and the pistol lighter and more compact. If I have to belt carry or AIWB, I am going to carry a .38 or a 9mm. I have had 2 of these P-32's since the 90's and I have only had one malfunction from a bad round. It was Kelgren's seminal design & put him on the map. You do have to change recoil springs every 500rds like all pocket autos. Just something to think about and consider. IMHO a .380 is no better than a euro loaded .32acp. Half the time it won't expand anyway or give good penetration. These pocket autos need ball to function reliably IMHO. John Browning knew what the hell he was doing when he invented the 7.65mm Browning. European Cemeteries are full of Folks that got killed with a 7.65 Browning.

[JAD]

I . It was Kelgren's seminal design & put him on the map.

[pushes glasses up nose] Actually, Kellgren, and...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170413/6550e268a289e5906ec677f3477fc99a.png

[Hambo]

John Browning knew what the hell he was doing when he invented the 7.65mm Browning. European Cemeteries are full of Folks that got killed with a 7.65 Browning.

No wonder Boothroyd thought it had a delivery like a brick through a plate glass window. :rolleyes:

[johnnywitt]

I stand by my .32 vs .380 opinion. Not too long ago one was vilified if you didn't have a .45 in your holster, or if you had a Glock. Shot placement is what counts. That & actually having a gun on you in a Gunfight.

[Hambo]

I stand by my .32 vs .380 opinion. Not too long ago one was vilified if you didn't have a .45 in your holster, or if you had a Glock. Shot placement is what counts. That & actually having a gun on you in a Gunfight.

It's more complicated than that, but if you're happy; I'm happy for you.

[TheNewbie]

Is rim lock a serious issue in the keltec P-32? I read that it was more common with JHP and using FMJ could solve it.

[mrozowjj]

Well Ruger emailed me today with shipping notice. I get it back Monday supposedly. That means they had it a little less than 48 hours so either there was an obvious flaw they spotted and fixed or they half assed it. Guess time will tell.

[Jaywalker]

Seecamp .32s are not great gun choices. They often break within a few hundred rounds and then the company takes forever to fix them and is impossible to communicate with. I have had this happen with 3 different Seecamps over the years.That's interesting. I don't doubt your experience, but I've had mine 28 years and haven't had any problems, other than reassembly, which I find challenging.

[BillSWPA]

Is rim lock a serious issue in the keltec P-32? I read that it was more common with JHP and using FMJ could solve it.

There are two possible rim interactions with .32 auto:

1) The rim of the top cartridge in the magazine caught in the groove in front of the rim of the cartridge below it. This will not be an issue unless the gun is loaded with 7+1. If the gun is loaded with 7+1, the standard 9 lb. recoil springs will fail to overcome this condition about 40-50% of the time. Switching to Wolff 11 lb. recoil springs will completely eliminate this issue, and in my opinion is a mandatory change with a P-32.

2) The rim of one cartridge behind the rim of the cartridge below it. This is what is known as rimlock. While much less common, it can and does occur. In my gun, it occurred once after about 700 rounds, and has not occurred since I learned to be careful loading my magasines as described below. However, when it occurs, you are going to have to remove the magazine, and remove the cartridges from the magazine, in order to clear the jam. It is a very good reason to always carry a spare magazine with a .32.

The likelihood of rimlock is increased or reduced by the relationship between the length of the cartridge, the space available in the magazine parallel to the cartridge, and the angle of the magazine. Shorter cartridge + more space + more vertical angle = more likelihood of rimlock. Since a longer overall length cartridge reduces the chances of rimlock, some users use FMJ rather than JHP to keep their cartridge length long. Other users have tried spacers in the back of the magazine. I have experimented with both my own homemade spacers, and an unadvertised kel-Tec "rimlock prevention kit" that Kel-Tec offered at one time. In both cases, the chances of premature slidelock increased dramatically.

In my experience, rimlock occurs during loading of the magazine. Too much pressure at the front end of the cartridges, and not enough at the back end, can cause the rims to separate, permitting the cartridges to slide with respect to each other. If you are careful to apply downward pressure as evenly as possible across the cartridges in the magazine during loading, a rimlock will not occur. Once the magazine is loaded, the same rim interaction that makes rimlock such a nasty condition will prevent it from ever occurring in the first place.

Despite the semi-rimmed nature of .32 and rimless nature of .380, the P-32 has a slightly better reputation for reliability than the P3AT. I have found that the P3AT also benefits from a heavier recoil spring (changing from the standard 11 lb. to 13 lb.) but for different reasons.

[Jaywalker]

Once the magazine is loaded, the same rim interaction that makes rimlock such a nasty condition will prevent it from ever occurring in the first place. Interesting. Thanks.

[critter]

As much as I liked the Kahr I owned I could not shoot it well at speeds. It was very smooth but the reset was very long and that is why I struggle with snub nose revolvers.





I currently mostly carry a Walther PPS M2. I shoot it well. It is already very small and light. The only reason I'm looking at a 380 is for those times when I would like something even smaller and/or lighter. The Ruger LCP 2 is both smaller and lighter.

If the LCP 2 ends up being a turd I'd consider the Glock 42 because while it isn't that much smaller than the PPS it is still lighter than the Walther PPS M2 by a good 7 oz so it could replace my snub-nose revolver (It's about as large as the Walther PPS M2 as well so I really only carry it when I want to toss on something quick)

The Walther PPK is basically the same size as the PPS M2 and the PPK is heavier by an ounce... that's not much heavier but it's still heavier and that no go for me. If I want a heavier gun I'll carry the PPQ.

I also carry a PPS, but the "Classic", sometimes 9mm, sometimes .40. I wouldn't swap the PPS out for the G43, but I did wind up going with the G42 (Comparing to the LCP 2, and a few others) as my 'pocket' or 'stashed somewhere on my body' .380. I also put this fuzzy, felt like wrap around soft grip on it (I can't recall the maker at the moment) which makes it even more comfortable to carry and shoot. I can definitely feel the carry difference between it and the PPS. I can make consistent hits with smaller weapons, but the 42 is the smallest (so far) that I can shoot as well as the PPS or larger. Now, when the Gadget becomes available for it I'll be a very happy camper. I guess a little femoralphobia isn't too bad of a thing.

[mrozowjj]

I also carry a PPS, but the "Classic", sometimes 9mm, sometimes .40. I wouldn't swap the PPS out for the G43, but I did wind up going with the G42 (Comparing to the LCP 2, and a few others) as my 'pocket' or 'stashed somewhere on my body' .380. I also put this fuzzy, felt like wrap around soft grip on it (I can't recall the maker at the moment) which makes it even more comfortable to carry and shoot. I can definitely feel the carry difference between it and the PPS. I can make consistent hits with smaller weapons, but the 42 is the smallest (so far) that I can shoot as well as the PPS or larger. Now, when the Gadget becomes available for it I'll be a very happy camper. I guess a little femoralphobia isn't too bad of a thing.

Good to know. Have you had any reliability issues with the 42? Any brand/types/weight of ammo that it tends to prefer? I get my LCP 2 Back tomorrow in theory. Might go shoot it and see if it's better. If not I might try to ditch it and get the 42 instead.

[critter]

Good to know. Have you had any reliability issues with the 42? Any brand/types/weight of ammo that it tends to prefer? I get my LCP 2 Back tomorrow in theory. Might go shoot it and see if it's better. If not I might try to ditch it and get the 42 instead.

Good luck with the LCP2. I really liked the one I shot. I was simply better with the 42 so it won out.

So far so good with the 42. I haven't shot a variety really, just what I already had and have on hand - about 800 or so Fiocchi 95gr, and 250 expensive as hell Critical Defense 90gr that ran well in the 42's predecessor - a little Llama 1911 style, yep, a Llama, no really, a Llama that I carried since, man, the late 80's maybe? I actually do love that one. I just can't see the little sights on it *at all* anymore. Anyway, not a hiccup in the 42 as of yet. I bought this one about a year and a half ago. I've heard a few complain about Critical Defense not running well in their 42's but it has in mine. I don't carry it often, but I do trust it to go bang until the mag is empty.

Here's that grip I was talking about (it looks like crap, but it is insanely comfortable and interferes with nothing)
I can't remember what this thing is.

http://www.davemansworld.com/guns/G42-01.jpg

http://www.davemansworld.com/guns/G42-02.jpg

And a comparison with the PPS 9mm Classic with short mag:

http://www.davemansworld.com/guns/G42-04.jpg

[Totem Polar]

Here's that grip I was talking about (it looks like crap, but it is insanely comfortable and interferes with nothing)
I can't remember what this thing is.

http://www.davemansworld.com/guns/G42-01.jpg


I'm sure it feels great, but it totally looks like mold growing on your grip.

[critter]

I'm sure it feels great, but it totally looks like mold growing on your grip.

LoL.. well, she does look better after a few beers.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

And it covers the mag release? That seems odd.


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[critter]

And it covers the mag release? That seems odd.



Yes it does. I was skeptical as well because that's actually per the instructions. It works perfectly as intended though I did punch out a hole for the pin. I may cut around and expose the mag release at some point, just because. I've done at least a thousand mag drops during dry fire practice plus however many at the range. It definitely functions flawlessly. It's also a definite improvement for carry/handling. It's a bad ass little grip just not an improvement in the looks dept.

edit: It's called the AGrip. This is the one I have:
AGrip for the Glock 42 (http://www.rockyourglock.com/custom/AGR-1GP1.htm)

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Yes it does. I was skeptical as well because that's actually per the instructions. It works perfectly as intended though I did punch out a hole for the pin. I may cut around and expose the mag release at some point, just because. I've done at least a thousand mag drops during dry fire practice plus however many at the range. It definitely functions flawlessly. It's also a definite improvement for carry/handling. It's a bad ass little grip just not an improvement in the looks dept.

I've always considered magazine releases to be, "self cleansing." To a point. Meaning that if they're open to air circulation, then dust/debris blows in, but it also blows out. But with sticky adhesive over it? That function will be limited. Now, dust bunnies will still enter through the magwell, they just won't extricate.

I'm down with the grip; do your thing friend. But take an exacto and trim that material away from the lever. I know that with the Glock/LCR I use, after only a day of very non-rigorous work, they are covered in dust after about three days. I wouldn't want to lock any of that stuff in there over a significant time interval.


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[Drew78]

Did we hear back from the OP on Rugers fix yet and if it was effective?

[critter]

Did we hear back from the OP on Rugers fix yet and if it was effective?


...I get my LCP 2 Back tomorrow in theory. Might go shoot it and see if it's better.

[Drew78]

Thank you, wanted to see if theory turned into reality yet...

[cathellsk]

Yes it does. I was skeptical as well because that's actually per the instructions. It works perfectly as intended though I did punch out a hole for the pin. I may cut around and expose the mag release at some point, just because. I've done at least a thousand mag drops during dry fire practice plus however many at the range. It definitely functions flawlessly. It's also a definite improvement for carry/handling. It's a bad ass little grip just not an improvement in the looks dept.

edit: It's called the AGrip. This is the one I have:
AGrip for the Glock 42 (http://www.rockyourglock.com/custom/AGR-1GP1.htm)


You beat me to it...AGRIP. Used to hear a lot about it on GLOCKTalk years ago. Had a buddy with it on a Kahr, felt nice. I use Talon Grip lately.
The last couple G42s I've had ran like tops, especially with Hornady CD, never a problem.

[evi1joe]

Having owned at least one of every 380 mentioned (except the bodyguard), I'd really like to recommend the RM380.
Remington bought the rights to make this Rorbaugh copy.

The size is a hair bigger than the LCP, but smaller than the G42; it's a tiny bit heavier than an LCP, but lighter than a G42. But the all metal construction makes it shoot as soft as a 42.
Guys have shot 500 rounds through them in torture tests online, and I've used every kind of ammo I can find and never had an issue (same with the G42--though I have seen many 380s choke on Golden Saber, Lehigh/Underwood, Freedom Arms, and have light primer strikes on S&B).

The only issues I wish they'd improve are taller sights (these are just a tad bigger than the 2nd gen LCP--but the LCP II and Kahr CW380 seem to have the perfect size small sights). It also needs a slightly shorter and lighter trigger pull. Galloway Precision is also a big fan of this little gun, and he's making a fix for the trigger.

I used to favor the LCP Custom or the G42, but once I got the G43, the RM380 took the place of both. That said, for shooting past 12Y-15Y, the G42 beats all of the pocket 380s for me.
---

QUESTION: DOES the LCP II have any kind of safety besides the trigger-safety? I love glocks but they have a firing pin safety; the idea of a 4/5th-cocked gun in my pocket with just a trigger-tab seems weird. I have to assume they know it's drop safe, but read on one forum that Ruger recommended not carrying a round in the chamber.

[mrozowjj]

Thank you, wanted to see if theory turned into reality yet...

Fedex requies an adult signature and I wasn't home so I had to go pick it up at the FedEx depot after 6pm so I ran over and picked it up and headed to the range.

This is the letter they attached saying they fixed the barrel, replaced the extractor and mag spring and fired 50 rounds of various ammo.
15734

Got to the range. I fired a grant total of 74 rounds of 3 different types of ammo and I got 4 failures.

I got one of these (Stovepipe?)
15735

And one of these (FTE)
15736

Another one of those (FTE)
15737

Which when I tried to clear and pull the mag out this happened which was more funny than anything
15738

And then finally one of these (Failure to go into battery)
15739

Accuracy was reasonably when it did work though.
15740

So what do I do now? Send it back to Ruger again? They managed to cut the malfunctions in half... maybe two more trips and it will actually work.

I also rented the range's Glock 42 and put a box of ammo through it. 50 rounds zero issues. Clearly not a rigorous test but that is so far more continuous rounds than the LCP II was able to do.

[Sigfan26]

Fedex requies an adult signature and I wasn't home so I had to go pick it up at the FedEx depot after 6pm so I ran over and picked it up and headed to the range.

This is the letter they attached saying they fixed the barrel, replaced the extractor and mag spring and fired 50 rounds of various ammo.
15734

Got to the range. I fired a grant total of 74 rounds of 3 different types of ammo and I got 4 failures.

I got one of these (Stovepipe?)
15735

And one of these (FTE)
15736

Another one of those (FTE)
15737

Which when I tried to clear and pull the mag out this happened which was more funny than anything
15738

And then finally one of these (Failure to go into battery)
15739

Accuracy was reasonably when it did work though.
15740

So what do I do now? Send it back to Ruger again? They managed to cut the malfunctions in half... maybe two more trips and it will actually work.

I also rented the range's Glock 42 and put a box of ammo through it. 50 rounds zero issues. Clearly not a rigorous test but that is so far more continuous rounds than the LCP II was able to do.

They always say they fired 50 rounds. At my last employer, we ordered a new LCP Custom 2 for the shelf. You couldn't even dry fire it. It would click and not drop past the semi cocked ready position unless repeatedly dry fired a half dozen times. So, send it back. Get it back. Letter "Replaced trigger components, fire 50 rounds of (I believe) Black Hills .380 ACP"... Must have taken a while, since it wouldn't release the hammer past the same partially cocked position unless you pulled the trigger a half dozen times. Came back "working" the third time. When you send it back this time, ask for a free mag.


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[mrozowjj]

They always say they fired 50 rounds. At my last employer, we ordered a new LCP Custom 2 for the shelf. You couldn't even dry fire it. It would click and not drop past the semi cocked ready position unless repeatedly dry fired a half dozen times. So, send it back. Get it back. Letter "Replaced trigger components, fire 50 rounds of (I believe) Black Hills .380 ACP"... Must have taken a while, since it wouldn't release the hammer past the same partially cocked position unless you pulled the trigger a half dozen times. Came back "working" the third time. When you send it back this time, ask for a free mag.


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That doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence.

[Sigfan26]

That doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence.

Guns of questionable quality should be bought through Gallery Of Guns/Davidson's... you can exchange a fucked up one for a new one.


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[mrozowjj]

Guns of questionable quality should be bought through Gallery Of Guns/Davidson's... you can exchange a fucked up one for a new one.


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Considering I have had two Ruger LCPs that don't seem to want to work I think a 3rd brand new gun isn't really going to do me many favors.

[Sigfan26]

Considering I have had two Ruger LCPs that don't seem to want to work I think a 3rd brand new gun isn't really going to do me many favors.

Easier to sell though.


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[mrozowjj]

Easier to sell though.


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I suppose. These are the shittest guns I've ever had the misfortune to own. I guess that's what I get for trusting them to fix it. Should have just bought the glock.

[Sigfan26]

I suppose. These are the shittest guns I've ever had the misfortune to own. I guess that's what I get for trusting them to fix it. Should have just bought the glock.

Don't feel bad. I still own a Diamondback DB9, a Mauser HSc (commercial Interarms import in Hard Chrome), and a Charter Arms Bulldog Classic. Each reminds me of a deal that looked too good to be true.


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[hunter82]

How about a Bersa?

[critter]

I suppose. These are the shittest guns I've ever had the misfortune to own. I guess that's what I get for trusting them to fix it. Should have just bought the glock.

Man, I feel for ya. At this point, I surely wouldn't let Ruger off the hook, especially so hearing of their '50 rounds fired' (possibly) deceptive practice. Send that sucker back until they get it right and make it right.

BTW, I lived north of you there in Everett for seven years (during the $30 car tabs initiative era) working a contract. Absolutely loved the area and its 'breezy days', sun breaks, et. al., if the gov't wasn't so, er, not me, I'd have remained permanently. Where do you shoot?

[Totem Polar]

How about a Bersa?

The Thunder series .380s? Same questionable QC as any, only more of it; you pay shipping to get it fixed. Add in the fact that even the CC version is bigger and heavier than a G43, and I don't really see the point. If one wants an outdated range toy with a heavy DA pull, an older .32 PPK will get you Bond style points. Pass.

[mrozowjj]

Man, I feel for ya. At this point, I surely wouldn't let Ruger off the hook, especially so hearing of their '50 rounds fired' (possibly) deceptive practice. Send that sucker back until they get it right and make it right.

BTW, I lived north of you there in Everett for seven years (during the $30 car tabs initiative era) working a contract. Absolutely loved the area and its 'breezy days', sun breaks, et. al., if the gov't wasn't so, er, not me, I'd have remained permanently. Where do you shoot?

Called Ruger on the way into work today. They emailed me another shipping label. I'm going to put it in their box and send it back to them tomorrow along with the pictures I posted here.

I'm a member at an indoor range West Coast Armory and this outdoor range called Interlake Sportsman club. For my first 3 years here I only had access to the indoor range so I focused mostly on pistols but now that I have access to a 100-200 yard outdoor range I intend to do some more rifle shooting.

As an aside while I don't consider myself to a particularly great shot every time I go to the range I am astounded by how much better I am than the average Joe because of how very bad they are. Last night for example was lady's night (Every monday night is) and in the bay I was shooting in there was a few women but a large number of frat-bros high fiving each other and a few tactical timmies with green lasers mulling about putting targets at 5 yards that seemed to be happy to get the kind of group I am ashamed of doing at 20 yards. I suspect I put more ammo through this 380 yesterday than most of them put through a gun all year.

As a further aside if it's enticing at all the area has a lot of non-gov work now ie tech companies. That said because of all those tech companies rent and house prices are skyrocketing. If you owned a 1000 sg ft house on a 3000 sg ft lot in Seattle proper 15-20 years ago you could sell it for an absurd amount now (1 mil ish depending on neighborhood) I grew up in Wilkes-Barre PA and for the amount of money I pay in rent you could pay the mortgage on 4-5 houses in my hometown... but then you'd be living in my home town.

[Jaywalker]

Deleted.

[mrozowjj]

The Ruger has arrived at their repair factory today. Not sure how long they will have it but I think I'm going to buy the Glock 42 this weekend.

[packinaglock]

My tiny .380 is a Kel-Tec P3AT, which I would recommend, with one qualification. Both of the Kel-Tec pistols I own function significantly better with Wolff recoil springs that are 2 lb. heavier than factory standard. In the case of the P3AT, I am using a 13 lb. set of springs. I also use +10% extra power magazine springs, but this change is far less critical to functioning than changing the recoil springs.

I also use a Crimson Trace LaserGuard on my gun. Under conditions in which the laser can be seen, accuracy is significantly enhanced.

I also use +0 magazine extensions to get a better grip on the gun. The extra length really helps, particularly with the LaserGuard. I find the +0 extensions to be quieter than the +1 extensions. If you are carrying the gun in a non-permissive environment, being given away by noise would not be helpful.

The Internet loves to hate Kel-Tec, but three friends who also own, shoot, and carry these pistols have been quite happy with them.


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I can't really bitch about mine. When I first got it years ago it had some hiccups. I sent it into Keltec they tweaked it and it runs pretty damn good now.

[Sonofadi]

Well, Ruger issues aside. My LC380 has served me well. In Kalifornia is on roster. I also have 9mm and .22 conversions for it. It maintains a reliable system whichever caliber i choise. JM2cents

[brewmeister]

The Ruger has arrived at their repair factory today. Not sure how long they will have it but I think I'm going to buy the Glock 42 this weekend.


I just bought a Glock 42 myself. Slightly larger than some other .380, but it should be much more reliable and I'm definitely looking forward to it.

[mrozowjj]

I just bought a Glock 42 myself. Slightly larger than some other .380, but it should be much more reliable and I'm definitely looking forward to it.

Bought a Glock 42 on Saturday. I'm a GSSF member so I was able to snag one for $345 plus the WA sales tax.

15907

First shots out of the gate at 7 yards
15908

Opened up a bit at 10
15909

And opened up a bit more at 15. This was undoable with the Ruger or for that matter most other 380s that I've tried.
15910

But it was consistently tight at 7 yards
15911

15912

Pulled out a shot timer and did a mag dump at 7 yards. The gun was hitting consistently left for me through the entire session but I'm not concerned because I was planning on putting some different sights on the gun eventually.
15913


The best news of the night was this I fired 80 rounds and zero issues. I mixed it up shooting Speer Lawman, Remmington, Winchester White Box, and Federal ammo, all FMJ and there was zero issues. I know it's not a lot of ammo but so far considering how hard both my Rugers choked with so few rounds this has impressed me. When loaded it's lighter than my snub nose... so I think I'll be selling the snub nose and the LCP II whenever it gets back to me.

Any recommendations for some self defense ammo that seems to work well out of the Glock 42?

[Doc_Glock]

Bought a Glock 42 on Saturday. I'm a GSSF member so I was able to snag one for $345 plus the WA sales tax.

15907

First shots out of the gate at 7 yards
15908

Opened up a bit at 10
15909

And opened up a bit more at 15. This was undoable with the Ruger or for that matter most other 380s that I've tried.
15910

But it was consistently tight at 7 yards
15911

15912

Pulled out a shot timer and did a mag dump at 7 yards. The gun was hitting consistently left for me through the entire session but I'm not concerned because I was planning on putting some different sights on the gun eventually.
15913


The best news of the night was this I fired 80 rounds and zero issues. I mixed it up shooting Speer Lawman, Remmington, Winchester White Box, and Federal ammo, all FMJ and there was zero issues. I know it's not a lot of ammo but so far considering how hard both my Rugers choked with so few rounds this has impressed me. When loaded it's lighter than my snub nose... so I think I'll be selling the snub nose and the LCP II whenever it gets back to me.

Any recommendations for some self defense ammo that seems to work well out of the Glock 42?

Glad you are good to go. Told ya;)

All .380 defensive ammo is penetration deficient. Or I should say it either expands and doesn't penetrate or it penetrates and doesn't expand. I have spent way too much time thinking about it.

Either use reliable FMJ, or decide on which under penetrating HP load you want. Most loads using the Hornady HST bullet rank amongst the best performers.

I opted for Hornady Custom because I found a good deal on it. No good answer IMO.

[critter]

Glad you are good to go. Told ya;)

All .380 defensive ammo is penetration deficient. Or I should say it either expands and doesn't penetrate or it penetrates and doesn't expand. I have spent way too much time thinking about it.

... No good answer IMO.

^^^^^^ This is definitely the .380 dilemma. I've spent way too much time thinking about this as well. It is what it is. I run Hornady CD with that FTX bullet, primarily because I already had it, and it runs well.


mrozowjj Glad you you like your new 42 and it inspires the necessary 'confidence in your weapon.' Well, as much confidence as a .380 can muster up. ;-) As for sights, the HD's work very well on the 42 (though your left tendency may be attributed to your not being used to the 42 trigger). Then you just need an UglyBettyGrip for your transition to the dark, moldy side to be complete. :p

[Totem Polar]

Looks good, mrozowjj. As to ammo, like others say: either good factory ball, or something with that Hornady XTP. I've had good luck with fiocchi extrema when I can find it. Freedom munitions does an XTP load as well; so far, so good. I'm warming up to it after 500+ rounds through a 42. Ammo choice is still a conundrum.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

I've read this thread with great interest from the start.

I was an early G42 adopter. I liked it, shot it well, but it always felt like it was just, "too small," for my mitts. I wished that it was just a hair bigger. I didn't have any luck with the Ameriglo CAP sights I got for it, and later found out from Dave Spaulding that they weren't calibrated for that gun/caliber, and that my experience was unique. Ending up reading it for a (don't laugh) revolver.

I recently got a G43 loaner, and it's the hair's width bigger, but not overly huge. Ideal for ankle carry, or under a tux. MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, you don't have to take a hit on .380 ammo quality, capability or prices.

Moral of the story is...if you're thinking 42, see if your mission envelope will accommodate the 43. YMMV.


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[Doc_Glock]

Glad you are good to go. Told ya;)

All .380 defensive ammo is penetration deficient. Or I should say it either expands and doesn't penetrate or it penetrates and doesn't expand. I have spent way too much time thinking about it.

Either use reliable FMJ, or decide on which under penetrating HP load you want. Most loads using the Hornady HST bullet rank amongst the best performers.

I opted for Hornady Custom because I found a good deal on it. No good answer IMO.

I mis spoke above. It is the XTP bullet NOT HST. Mind fart.

[Doc_Glock]

I've read this thread with great interest from the start.

I was an early G42 adopter. I liked it, shot it well, but it always felt like it was just, "too small," for my mitts. I wished that it was just a hair bigger. I didn't have any luck with the Ameriglo CAP sights I got for it, and later found out from Dave Spaulding that they weren't calibrated for that gun/caliber, and that my experience was unique. Ending up reading it for a (don't laugh) revolver.

I recently got a G43 loaner, and it's the hair's width bigger, but not overly huge. Ideal for ankle carry, or under a tux. MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, you don't have to take a hit on .380 ammo quality, capability or prices.

Moral of the story is...if you're thinking 42, see if your mission envelope will accommodate the 43. YMMV.


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I just sold a 43 because weight. It tipped the scales just enough that I needed to carry it on the belt in a realish holster so in my mind I might as well carry the 26, or 19 at that point.

However, for ankle carry it sounds ideal. Hmmmmm. Maybe I was hasty.

And not to be a wuss, but I could shoot the 42 all day. The 43 I was done in 100 rounds or so.

All said though, it it a nice gun, like the Kahr PM9, and I gave them both up for the 42.

[mrozowjj]

^^^^^^ This is definitely the .380 dilemma. I've spent way too much time thinking about this as well. It is what it is. I run Hornady CD with that FTX bullet, primarily because I already had it, and it runs well.


mrozowjj Glad you you like your new 42 and it inspires the necessary 'confidence in your weapon.' Well, as much confidence as a .380 can muster up. ;-) As for sights, the HD's work very well on the 42 (though your left tendency may be attributed to your not being used to the 42 trigger). Then you just need an UglyBettyGrip for your transition to the dark, moldy side to be complete. :p


Glad you are good to go. Told ya;)

All .380 defensive ammo is penetration deficient. Or I should say it either expands and doesn't penetrate or it penetrates and doesn't expand. I have spent way too much time thinking about it.

Either use reliable FMJ, or decide on which under penetrating HP load you want. Most loads using the Hornady HST bullet rank amongst the best performers.

I opted for Hornady Custom because I found a good deal on it. No good answer IMO.

I remember reading that in regards to 380 ammo a few years ago but I wasn't sure if anything had changed in the time since I've read that. I guess I can stick with any of that 95 gr stuff I have then that seems to cycle. Obviously I'm going to shoot it a bunch more before I start carrying it but good to know I don't need to bother with super expensive ammo for defense.

For sights I like Dawsons and 10-8 Performance. I honestly prefer the U notch of the 10-8 but Dawsons have been easier for me to install on guns where I don't have a rear sight tool so that is what I tend to put on my guns now. Something about 10-8 sights sometimes needing fitting and the hardness requiring a diamond file make me less inclined to want to try them on any gun where I need to use a vice and punch to install sights. I have Dawson fiber front and black rear on my Walther PPQ and PPS carry gun and my CZ competition guns and I like them.



I've read this thread with great interest from the start.

I was an early G42 adopter. I liked it, shot it well, but it always felt like it was just, "too small," for my mitts. I wished that it was just a hair bigger. I didn't have any luck with the Ameriglo CAP sights I got for it, and later found out from Dave Spaulding that they weren't calibrated for that gun/caliber, and that my experience was unique. Ending up reading it for a (don't laugh) revolver.

I recently got a G43 loaner, and it's the hair's width bigger, but not overly huge. Ideal for ankle carry, or under a tux. MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, you don't have to take a hit on .380 ammo quality, capability or prices.

Moral of the story is...if you're thinking 42, see if your mission envelope will accommodate the 43. YMMV.


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I've given some thought to the 43 but I already have a Walther PPS M2. Glock says the 43 weighs in at 17.95 oz and the Walther weighs 21.1 oz but the Walther is thinner... supposedly. I like the Walther PPS M2 because I can confidently re-holster it and the little cocking indicator acts as a gadget. I know there is some question as to whether it's ideal to use in that regard but the truth is it still works better than the currently non yet released gadget for the 43.

I like the idea that I can reverse the mag release on the 43 though so who knows maybe I'll get one of those in the future with my next GSSF coupon.

Side note I think you all might be taller/larger than I am. I am 5'6 on a good day and I have small hands (Medium size gloves.) For me in a tux there is no gun small enough that lets me ankle carry. I know a lot of people say you have to dress around the gun but I carry the single stack 9mm because there are very few combos of shirts that will let me conceal anything larger easily without me constantly worrying about printing. That said the JMKydex holster does a very good job with the full size PPQ but there are still only half a dozen shirts that I own that fit in a way that let me carry it... I'm a difficult person to shop for though; mediums are too tight in the chest, larges too long in the sleeve and torso... very few companies seem to make shirts that fit my apparently oddly sized torso but that is a discussion for a different day.

[Duelist]

Buy some shirts by measurement, not by size: 16.5" neck shirt is too tight for a 17" neck, 33" sleeves are too long for 30" arms, etc. Shop by measurement. You'll be happy you did.

[mrozowjj]

Buy some shirts by measurement, not by size: 16.5" neck shirt is too tight for a 17" neck, 33" sleeves are too long for 30" arms, etc. Shop by measurement. You'll be happy you did.

You'd be surprised how much variation there is even with those. I'm a 17" 32/33 shirt in those terms. But every company is apparently using a different ruler and now they all have "relaxed fit" "Fitted" "Stretch fit" "Slim Fit" "Regular Fit" etc. So in one company I'm a 17 32/34 fitted. In another company I'm a 16.5 33/34 relaxed, etc etc. Sizes have even become inconsistent within the same brand (Because they switched from the Vietnamiese factory to the Bangladesh factory) to the point that it's a royal pain in the ass.

[TheNewbie]

What is the most reliable .380 the size of the P232? I have heard Walthers are not reliable and the two P232s I've had were not the best in the reliability department.

[Totem Polar]

I've read this thread with great interest from the start.

I was an early G42 adopter. I liked it, shot it well, but it always felt like it was just, "too small," for my mitts. I wished that it was just a hair bigger. I didn't have any luck with the Ameriglo CAP sights I got for it, and later found out from Dave Spaulding that they weren't calibrated for that gun/caliber, and that my experience was unique. Ending up reading it for a (don't laugh) revolver.

I recently got a G43 loaner, and it's the hair's width bigger, but not overly huge. Ideal for ankle carry, or under a tux. MOST SIGNIFICANTLY, you don't have to take a hit on .380 ammo quality, capability or prices.

Moral of the story is...if you're thinking 42, see if your mission envelope will accommodate the 43. YMMV.


For the record, I was a very early 42 adopter, as in: MLK day ship. The first one wasn't so reliable. But I digress. I am now a happy 43 owner, but the 42 is one my wife likes, and that's great; something for the both of us. :cool:

[Duelist]

What is the most reliable .380 the size of the P232? I have heard Walthers are not reliable and the two P232s I've had were not the best in the reliability department.

I've only fired a couple of Walthers - a PPK and a PPK/S. They were reliable.

If I wanted a bigger .380, it'd be hard to look past a Beretta 80 series.

[cclaxton]

Take a look at the reference I just posted about IDPA DIvisions, but I spent quite a bit of time finding 380ACP guns, so I have a pretty good survey of current production guns. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1avsNNGP3B4gtlm3m6FhKWXxneQzc9rTqgWqkOkIz3x8/edit?usp=sharing

I have tried the Ruger LC380 which I thought I would like. The weight and size is good, but the trigger is one of the worst I have pulled.
I own a Bersa Thunder CC in 380 and I really love that gun, although they are cheaply made, but they have great triggers and run great.

My absolute favorite is the SigSauer P238 or P938 bigger brother. I LOVE these guns. They are just amazing.

But I am curious about the Grand Power CP380 and the Browing 1911-380. They could be good options if you can find them.

Don't forget to check out the Kahrs as well...especially if you like those revolver style triggers.

My girlfriend really loves the S&W Bodyguard 380, and they are great pocket carry for deep carry.

Cody

[peterb]

For a larger .380, Tam really liked the Sig P250 compact.

[cclaxton]

For a larger .380, Tam really liked the Sig P250 compact.
Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough, but I could not find the Sign P250 in any caliber other than 22LR on the Sig website. But I do see some new ones for sale at Grabagun and Gunbroker. Is it End of Life for Sig?
Cody

[peterb]

I think the P250 line was killed to make room for more P320 production.

Here's one piece she did:
http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2015/12/weak-weaker.html?m=1

[lwt16]

[/QUOTE] The best news of the night was this I fired 80 rounds and zero issues. I mixed it up shooting Speer Lawman, Remmington, Winchester White Box, and Federal ammo, all FMJ and there was zero issues. I know it's not a lot of ammo but so far considering how hard both my Rugers choked with so few rounds this has impressed me. When loaded it's lighter than my snub nose... so I think I'll be selling the snub nose and the LCP II whenever it gets back to me.

Any recommendations for some self defense ammo that seems to work well out of the Glock 42?[/QUOTE]

Glad you finally found something that works for you.

I have shot quite a bit of Speer Gold Dot .380 out of my G42 and it's very reliable. Decent penetration in the tests that I have watched.

Mine has Talon grips and rides in my ankle holster on duty. I also put an Ameriglo Orange front sight and a rear ICE Claw sight. I also have one flat magazine that has a magazine kit that allows seven plus one carry without adding to the length of the magazine. Also very reliable.

If you need me to look up that kit, shoot me a PM.

[TheNewbie]

I was really impressed with the p250 .380 I handled but did not shoot. The trigger was not great , but it would be a good option for a lot of people CCW wise if reliable.

[mrozowjj]

Any suggestions for holsters for the Glock 42 that don't suck and ship quick-ish?




I've only fired a couple of Walthers - a PPK and a PPK/S. They were reliable.

If I wanted a bigger .380, it'd be hard to look past a Beretta 80 series.

I have a Browning BDA that was willed to me from an uncle a few years back and it's very similar to the Beretta 84. It's a fine gun and it seems reliable but it's not something I shoot much.

[Duelist]

That BDA is a Beretta 80 series pistol, not just similar. They machined the slide profile without the barrel exposing top cut.

G42 holster: https://www.amazon.com/Badger-Concealment-Glock-IWB-Holster/dp/B00OFBD65Q?th=1&psc=1

[mrozowjj]

The are some differences. The Browning has a slide mounted safer and the Beretta has a frame safety.

[johnnywitt]

Is rim lock a serious issue in the keltec P-32? I read that it was more common with JHP and using FMJ could solve it.

With a .32acp/7.65mm Browning you are really limited to Ball Ammo because of rimlock & penetration. If you use the Euro Spec 73gr ammo that JB designed you won't have rim lock because the rounds are longer. They are also loaded hotter than the American downloaded 71gr offerings. The S&B is the hottest, followed by GECO & Fiocchi.
The Kel-Tec gets mocked here, but I find it ironic that this is the gun that the insanely popular LCP is modeled after. I pretty admit most all KT's are utter crap, with the exception of the first and original- the P-32. With ball ammo, you don't give up too much to a .380 shooting ball IMO & according to the data that I have researched. I like the 8 round capacity and the low recoil & the last round hold open as well. The gun only weighs about 8.5oz loaded too. I also think that getting your P-32 chromed helps reliability some and since you will probably pocket carry it, it's good for corrosion.
I front pocket carry my P-32's for Backpacking and long hikes in the Rockies where every ounce counts. It's a superb BUG for that. However, I use a S&W 342Ti for higher threat situation where I need a BUG.

I'm wondering about the Underwood Ammo. The .380 may through new bullet technology may now be the better round. Before, you had to rely on ball ammo to get the required penetration as the HP all went below the 12" FBI threshold. Now, if you have a .380 that is reliable with the Underwood/Leheigh Ammo, it might be a Game Changer. It seems to bump up a .380 to near 9x19 lethality levels. Maybe somebody here has some experience with this round in their .380.

[41magfan]

Ruger may have plagiarized the Kel-Tec design somewhat, but the quality of construction is in no way comparable. A bunch of my fellow cops carried Kel-Tec's and they just don't stand up to much shooting and I'm seen several suffer major component failure. Their CS is really good at replacing them, though.

[johnnywitt]

Ruger may have plagiarized the Kel-Tec design somewhat, but the quality of construction is in no way comparable. A bunch of my fellow cops carried Kel-Tec's and they just don't stand up to much shooting and I'm seen several suffer major component failure. Their CS is really good at replacing them, though.

I've got the Gen I's from '98 that are factory chromed and they are reliable. The Gen II are different & I don't know about the QC. Pick up a new Ruger LCP II & pick up a KT P-32 and then stick either one in a pocket holster & then shoot one & you will see there is a pretty big difference carry wise and also in recoil and follow up shots.
I guess I'm pretty much beating a dead horse here though, so I will cease & desist.

[mrozowjj]

The Ruger LCP II came back from the factory friday. I fired it yesterday for a total of 35 rounds with 2 failure to feeds. I used 3 different types of ammunition. I called Ruger this morning they want me to send it back again. I'm hoping they'll just keep it at this point.

[Clusterfrack]

The Ruger LCP II came back from the factory friday. I fired it yesterday for a total of 35 rounds with 2 failure to feeds. I used 3 different types of ammunition. I called Ruger this morning they want me to send it back again. I'm hoping they'll just keep it at this point.

Dude, that sucks. It's not really surprising to me though. Ruger, like Remington and some others seem to let early adopters do their R&D and QC. I wouldn't buy a Ruger product unless it had been out for 3-5 years.

My LCP gen2 is a pretty good little gun for what it is. I've never had a failure in around 1k rounds. Maybe trade your LCP2 in for one?

[mrozowjj]

Dude, that sucks. It's not really surprising to me though. Ruger, like Remington and some others seem to let early adopters do their R&D and QC. I wouldn't buy a Ruger product unless it had been out for 3-5 years.

My LCP gen2 is a pretty good little gun for what it is. I've never had a failure in around 1k rounds. Maybe trade your LCP2 in for one?

I'm going to keep sending it back until they either fix it well enough that I don't feel guilty selling it to someone else or until they decide it isn't worth their time any more and just write me a check for it. Either way I'm going to remember this and never buy another Ruger no matter how enticing it seems.

That said I have a Ruger 1911 that seems to run. I bought that used. I wonder if Rugers only work if they are used guns?

[41magfan]

They're aren't' ever going to write you a check, but I might just take that clunker off your hands. Tell you what, you make me a price on it - commensurate and consistent with your commentary about Ruger quality - and I might just take it off your hands ..... no guilt attached whatsoever.

[mrozowjj]

They're aren't' ever going to write you a check, but I might just take that clunker off your hands. Tell you what, you make me a price on it - commensurate and consistent with your commentary about Ruger quality - and I might just take it off your hands ..... no guilt attached whatsoever.

If you were local I'd take you up on that offer but I doubt the cost of shipping would make it worth your time. Either way it's at least a week or more away from getting it back.

[mrozowjj]

So for anyone that was wondering I received the pistol back from Ruger and it still failed to fire 1 in 20 rounds. I mailed it back to them for a 4th time and they determined the gun needed to be destroyed. They offered to send a brand new replacement to a dealer but I asked if it would be possible to instead just be reimbursed for the cost. I mailed them the info they requested yesterday. I'm assuming I'll have a check in a few weeks.

[OlongJohnson]

If anyone still wants to try their luck, KYgunco has LCP Customs for $235 shipped.

[Gadfly]

Necro post, I know. But ran across a used Pico .380... I was allowed to test fire it because it was a range rental gun. It ran just fine. Chest shots are 21 rounds (6+1, three times) at 7 yards. Two mags two handed, one mag one handed. Then 4 last rounds at 15 yards. For a tiny DAO pistol? I like it...

May have to break down at get it, then I can read all the "you bought a PICO?!?!" hatred...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170621/fb9eae24f60eedd704430f24641c8574.jpg


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[LockedBreech]

I bought a new LCP a few days ago. I already own one, but I've had it for 6-7 years and the wear on the frame is noticeable (though I'll note it has never failed in thousands of rounds). Since it was a gift from my dad and I can't just sell-trade it, I'm going to shift it to a backup and I ordered a current-gen LCP. It's a talo-edition desert one (which appears to just be a desert tan frame and desert tan Cerakote slide). $235. It's a cheap enough gun and a light/fragile enough gun that I figured I'd rather just grab a new one than risk frame or slide breakage.

Looking forward to the mild sight/trigger improvements. I didn't want the LCP Custom because the Desantis Nemesis pocket holster and current LCP is my go-to "I can't carry absolutely anything but this in this location/outfit" gun.

I'm also, at long last, switching from 90-grain Speer Gold Dot JHPs to 95-grain Federal American Eagle FMJ. At this point after much review of the available data I do not find .380 Auto convincing as a JHP performer and I'm much more concerned with cycling reliability and penetration to vitals than I am concerned with over-penetration in such a light cartridge. In years and years of shooting I have never had a quality control issue with an American Eagle round, hence that choice.

[Boxy]

I picked up a Glock G42 for my wife and it really shoots well. GSSF coupons for blue label run about $342. I liked it so well I got one for my self to use instead of a J frame.

I would pass on the Seecamp 32. I had one that would not reliably feed the Winchester Silvertips. I believe the gun was designed around the Silvertip and the manufacturer changed the ammo or something to that effect making the Seecamp unreliable.

Get the G42. There are other ETS aftermarket magazines in various capacities just entering the market. As much as I plunder around other platforms I circle back to Glocks.

Your mileage may vary.

[BillSWPA]

I picked up a Glock G42 for my wife and it really shoots well. GSSF coupons for blue label run about $342. I liked it so well I got one for my self to use instead of a J frame.

I would pass on the Seecamp 32. I had one that would not reliably feed the Winchester Silvertips. I believe the gun was designed around the Silvertip and the manufacturer changed the ammo or something to that effect making the Seecamp unreliable.

Get the G42. There are other ETS aftermarket magazines in various capacities just entering the market. As much as I plunder around other platforms I circle back to Glocks.

Your mileage may vary.

That is exactly what happened with the Seecamp. The last time I was on their website, they had ammo recommendations for their .32 and .380 guns.

My understanding from others who own Seecamps is that they are well made guns, but that the design produces higher felt recoil than other designs.


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[Super J]

That is exactly what happened with the Seecamp. The last time I was on their website, they had ammo recommendations for their .32 and .380 guns.

My understanding from others who own Seecamps is that they are well made guns, but that the design produces higher felt recoil than other designs.


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I have a Seecamp that I comfortably pocket carried for quite a few years. I had feeding issues with it at some point and I sent it back to Larry Seecamp to look over. During the time that it was being looked over, I bought a LCP with viridian green laser and have not carried the Seecamp since.

[BillSWPA]

I have a Seecamp that I comfortably pocket carried for quite a few years. I had feeding issues with it at some point and I sent it back to Larry Seecamp to look over. During the time that it was being looked over, I bought a LCP with viridian green laser and have not carried the Seecamp since.

I would have made the same decision.

How has the Viridian green laser worked out?



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[Super J]

I would have made the same decision.

How has the Viridian green laser worked out?



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I really like the laser and it has an additional reason that I like even more than it being a laser. The actual laser housing serves as a good spot for me to rest my non-dominant thumb.

The viridian laser came with a special holster that would activate the laser once pulled from the holster...which I think is kinda cool so I don't have to worry about fiddling with a button to turn it on. The holster is made of some kind of fabric and is not all that durable. The holster is no longer pretty and looks a bit raggy after all of the daily living in my pockets. Not a biggie though as the replacement holsters are quite affordable.

The first laser that I got burned through the batteries pretty quickly. I sent it back to viridian and they had it repaired and back to me quickly (probably under 2 weeks...I just don't remember now). Batteries still don't seem to last as long as I would like, but I am not truly complaining about that as it is just about at the acceptable amount for me.

All the best

[mrozowjj]

So Ruger mailed me a check. I don't know how I feel about that gun in the sense that I don't know that'd I'd recommend someone trying their luck but I will say that Ruger as a company will work with you to do whatever it takes to make it right and that's impressive.

[LockedBreech]

Given that I bought a new LCP and about 250 rounds of .380, I will update in this thread and see if I have better luck.

[37th Mass]

I've been reading these pocket 380 threads on several forums. I've read about lots of good and terrible individual pistols from most brands. It may be that it is just too hard to manufacture consistently reliable weapons with such a short feedramp and recoil cycle.

Perhaps a person set on a 380 should just pick the model of pistol they want based on size, trigger, sights and other factors. Then buy ten of that same model and figure out which one of those is most reliable, and return or sell the other nine.

Only half joking...

[mrozowjj]

I just got a holster for my Glock 42 and I'm seriously questioning the utility of this gun. The size of it is terribly similar to my PPS M2. The only place the 42 has the advantage is weight. The 42 with holster fully loaded is 1 lb 4 oz vs the PPS M2 which is 1 lb 12 oz, so the 380 is 8 oz lighter and while you'd assume that wild make the gun disappear it's actually quite hard to tell the difference on the belt.

Combine that with the weaker more expensive round and I'm already thinking about selling the 42. Perhaps I could pocket carry it but honestly these days I carry enough shit in my pockets that the only time I'd have a spare pocket to use it would be the winter and in the winter I have no issues concealing something larger... maybe 380 isn't for me.

[41magfan]

My main objective today at the range was to zero two new scopes, but that went rather quickly so I spent the remainder of my limited time firing a few rounds from one of the pocket pop guns.

A simple step-back drill with 5 rds fired SHO at the 3,5,7,10 & 15 yard line. The remainder of the box was spent doing some fairly quick one-shot presentations from low-ready on a 10" steel plate at 10 yards (SHO). Went 19 for 20 with the miss coming from an almost dud round that cleared the barrel but didn't make it to the plate just 30 feet away. The remaining 5 rds were expended at 25 yards on a 3/4 steel silhouette - 5 for 5 hits SHO.

I don't think that performance is too shabby coming from a 9 oz pistol you can buy for less than two hundred bucks these days ..... but I realize that's just one man's opinion.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/640x480q90/923/jKwT3P.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pnjKwT3Pj)

[Velo Dog]

I just got a holster for my Glock 42 and I'm seriously questioning the utility of this gun. The size of it is terribly similar to my PPS M2. The only place the 42 has the advantage is weight. The 42 with holster fully loaded is 1 lb 4 oz vs the PPS M2 which is 1 lb 12 oz, so the 380 is 8 oz lighter and while you'd assume that wild make the gun disappear it's actually quite hard to tell the difference on the belt.

A loaded Ruger LCP is 3 times wider and heavier than the smallest iphone. An iphone definitely doesn't disappear in any front pants pocket I own - at least not when I bend my knees, lift my leg, twist at the waist, lie on my back or side. However, I can legally "conceal" a 9mm subcompact or .357 snub in some of my front pants pockets. A good pocket holster will make it less obvious that a gun is causing the bulge in your trousers. I have little use for a pocket .380

[Odin Bravo One]

I taught an open enrollment course and had an older gentleman break out his LCP, (when they were still relatively new). I was impressed that it held up, and it's accuracy for its size was impressive. The old man could geterdun.

I stayed away from the mouse guns until the Glock came out. Nothing quirky about it. It's just another Glock. Fits well in my purse. All jokes aside, it goes everywhere with me. Usually it is not alone, but having the ability to hide it while shirtless and wearing board shorts makes it worth the effort I had to make to buy it from Jay Cunningham......

[critter]

I just got a holster for my Glock 42 and I'm seriously questioning the utility of this gun. The size of it is terribly similar to my PPS M2. The only place the 42 has the advantage is weight. The 42 with holster fully loaded is 1 lb 4 oz vs the PPS M2 which is 1 lb 12 oz, so the 380 is 8 oz lighter and while you'd assume that wild make the gun disappear it's actually quite hard to tell the difference on the belt.

Combine that with the weaker more expensive round and I'm already thinking about selling the 42. Perhaps I could pocket carry it but honestly these days I carry enough shit in my pockets that the only time I'd have a spare pocket to use it would be the winter and in the winter I have no issues concealing something larger... maybe 380 isn't for me.

For me, .380 is special purpose only. I generally either wear it on the ankle or in those drawstring sports type pants/shorts. It light enough to work well in either scenario and still be large enough with large enough sights. I wouldn't carry it in place of the PPS in any situation where I could conceal the PPS. That's for sure. If you don't need it get something else you'll put to better use.

[LockedBreech]

A loaded Ruger LCP is 3 times wider and heavier than the smallest iphone. An iphone definitely doesn't disappear in any front pants pocket I own - at least not when I bend my knees, lift my leg, twist at the waist, lie on my back or side. However, I can legally "conceal" a 9mm subcompact or .357 snub in some of my front pants pockets. A good pocket holster will make it less obvious that a gun is causing the bulge in your trousers. I have little use for a pocket .380

It's probably pretty individual and pretty body-type specific, but I have tried carrying an M&P Shield and an LCP in the same type of pocket holster opposite an iPhone 6S and the difference is massive.

For a while I owned a 642 and it was a smidge better, but I do think the LCP carries significantly lighter than almost all competitors, whatever other weaknesses it might have.

[Drunder40]

I every so often entertain the idea of getting a pocket 380 for those times I normally would not carry anything. I ususally talk myself out of it because I have trouble finding a pocket 380 that has a decent enough trigger and is reliable. Several years ago I bought a Ruger LCP but it would not fire worth a damn. I tried multiple types of ammo and it just wouldn't cycle. Made a return trip to Ruger to fix it and still didn't work.

Right now I am considering the following:

Kahr P380
Beretta Pico
S&W Bodyguard
Ruger LCP or LCP2
Colt Mustang
Sig P238
Glock 42


Part of me knows the Glock 42 will have a good enough trigger and be reliable but it's also so large that it negates the point if getting a gun in 380 in my opinion so I'm inclinded not to get that one.

I like the idea of the Colt and the Sig because people seem to think they are reliable and their triggers are good but I don't like the fact that they have a very small manual safety; my other carry gun is striker fired so I'm leaning towards not getting either of those.

The other Ruger LCP I had as previously stated was not reliable so it kind of soured me on the LCP, though I suppose the LCP 2 is different enough that it might be worth a try if you all seem to think it would do the trick.

I have shot a Bodyguard and it shot well enough but the trigger was very long and it has an even harder to manage safety than the Sig/Colt.

So I guess that leaves the Kahr. I like the one Kahr CW9 I had. It was a little temperamental about the magazines at first but it worked once that got sorted out. I ended up selling it because the trigger was hard to master and I shot the Shield and Walther PPS better on a timer.

I have heard nothing about the Beretta Pico other than that the trigger isn't great and the mag release is very hard to hit but I've never even seen one in person before.

So what say the hive here, are there other guns out there I'm neglecting to mention that are worth considering? Anything new coming on down the line I should wait for? Anyone have some experience with any of the models above that they could care to recommend one?


Admittedly I have not read all the posts here but did read alot of them.. My wife started with a P238 and now carries a Colt mustang XSP FE and loves it.. It's tiny, very light and very accurate.

If you decide to go with a 9mm, I would suggest the P938 as it is basically a tiny bit bigger/heavier than the P238..

Hope this helps.

[45dotACP]

Hitting this thread up. Will be trying a LCP custom. Picked one up for 250 dollars at the LGS. Decent sights and the very small profile was the main reason for it.

I can see it serving as a backup gun while carrying my Beretta, or something to carry if I'm wearing light or tight clothing and cannot carry my Beretta.

Shouldn't be terribly common to need it. I can conceal a 92FS in summer wear. But it's good to have a deep concealment option.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[dwcopple]

Snicker if you want, but my pocket carry .380 is a Taurus TCP, which is identical internally to the P3AT and LCP, yet somehow the trigger feel/pull on the Taurus blows the other two away. They are stupid cheap to buy and you get a free year of NRA/American rifleman magazine. Give one a whirl if you have an extra $150