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View Full Version : Which AR-15 5.56 magazines are best?



Little Creek
12-17-2011, 08:19 AM
I can't help but think, just like 1911 magazines, all AR-15 magazines are not created equal. I lean toward PMags. What about MagPul followers in GI magazines. What about MagPul "Ranger" bases plates for USGI as well as PMags? Do the Ranger base plates help in using the 30 round magazine for a monopod when shooting prone?

Tamara
12-17-2011, 08:28 AM
To quote Subject Matter Expert Sean M (http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?2331-Considering-M-amp-P-15&p=39363&viewfull=1#post39363), who has likely thrown away more AR mags than I've bought:


GI mags break. PMags break. H&K Mags break. The other cheapo knock off hunk of shit mags break.
I'll take his word on the latter, because I only buy the first three. Well, actually, the first two; I've kinda cooled off on the HundK mags. All my GI mags, I think, have Magpul followers in them, except for the newer Brownells ones I got.

LittleLebowski
12-17-2011, 08:35 AM
Buy a known good like PMags, Lancers, or GI with Magpul followers. Remembers that magazines are expendable, wear items. Rinse, repeat.

theblacknight
12-17-2011, 09:24 PM
Pmags first. They will take longer to become unserviceable then GIs.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Kyle Reese
12-17-2011, 09:36 PM
I can't help but think, just like 1911 magazines, all AR-15 magazines are not created equal. I lean toward PMags. What about MagPul followers in GI magazines. What about MagPul "Ranger" bases plates for USGI as well as PMags? Do the Ranger base plates help in using the 30 round magazine for a monopod when shooting prone?

I run PMAGs exclusively in my AO with no complaints or issues. If a mag breaks or becomes otherwise unserviceable, it gets shitcanned. Don't fall in love with your gear. replace it as needed.

orionz06
12-17-2011, 11:01 PM
I am all about GI mags based on price (3:2 for GI vs anything else) but the new Lancer AWM's are pretty kick ass.

Joseph B.
12-18-2011, 01:40 AM
I run Pmag 30 rd'ers on my room-broom and USGI 20 rd'ers on my SPR. I have not tried the 20rd Pmags but I would buy some if I did not have the GI's that I have... For the cost, you really cant beat the Pmag IMHO.

Kyle Reese
12-18-2011, 07:13 AM
I am all about GI mags based on price (3:2 for GI vs anything else) but the new Lancer AWM's are pretty kick ass.

The AWM's I was running at the KD Carbine class last April at USTC became inop quickly due to a small amount of sand, while PMAGs and ARCs continued to drive on. I was even less impressed with Lancer's response to my issue. Pass.

Tamara
12-18-2011, 09:41 AM
I have not tried the 20rd Pmags but I would buy some if I did not have the GI's that I have...

I have had one interesting issue (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2009/11/i-am-become-death-destroyer-of-gear.html) with a 20rd Pmag. It was obviously due to user error, caused by my finger riding the mag release button, but it totally tied up the gun and took two people to un-screw it...

DocGKR
12-18-2011, 02:00 PM
We've had the best luck with 30 rd PMAGS and 30 rd USGI aluminum using Magpul followers. The old school straight sided 20 rd USGI aluminum mags also tended to run well.

theblacknight
12-18-2011, 08:32 PM
Do to the IAR, we can't run pmags anymore. I got the upgrade followers for my serviceable gi mags and use the pmags springs. They work ,and I load to 28 to keep the lips from bending too soon.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

orionz06
12-19-2011, 03:52 PM
The AWM's I was running at the KD Carbine class last April at USTC became inop quickly due to a small amount of sand, while PMAGs and ARCs continued to drive on. I was even less impressed with Lancer's response to my issue. Pass.

Will make a note of that. I ran a few this weekend and had 1 Pmag start having issues due to mud, AWM's were fine but I will need to compare the guts to see if they were as dirty inside as they were outside.

You aware of how the Troy mags handle grime and sand?

DocGKR
12-20-2011, 01:19 AM
theblacknight--eMags should work in the IAR.

Failure2Stop
12-20-2011, 07:59 AM
I have had the best performance with old-style PMags, black new PMags, HK mags, and OKay GI mags with Magpul followers with or without Ranger Plates.

Chuck Haggard
12-20-2011, 10:57 AM
My go-to for many years was quality GI mags, MANY picked up off the ground during various field problems while I was still a 19D. Best performance was to rehab with Ken Elmore's super springs and the old black followers replaced with the newer green followers. Later I started to add Mag Pul followers, but the old gear worked rather well and still does to this day.

Now I am heavily into P-Mags, I really like them a great deal, and I have had no issues even thought some have been abused on purpose.

Joe in PNG
12-20-2011, 03:18 PM
You guys are making my day- I ordered a few black P-Mags to feed the new Colt!:D

Jay Cunningham
02-09-2012, 10:46 PM
I'm a sucker for 30 round and 20 round NHMTG aluminum magazines.

JDM
02-09-2012, 10:59 PM
Do you prefer Teflon or dry film?

Jay Cunningham
02-09-2012, 11:06 PM
I think the dry film is just swell. Not that I have rage against Teflon, but the mil-spec mags have always worked out great for me. There does seem to be confusion that any old aluminum magazine = mil-spec, which is not the case.

JDM
02-09-2012, 11:09 PM
Timely thread.

I'm about to order 15 or so 30 rounders and 5 or so 20s.

I'd like to stick with GI mags.

NHMTG the way to go? what about D&H?

Jay Cunningham
02-09-2012, 11:20 PM
My personal first choice will always be Colt/Okay/NHMTG which are all essentially the same magazine. Call me old school but I've been called a lot worse. Plain Jane black PMAGs seem to work fine too. D&H aren't bad magazines but if given a choice all things being equal I'd pick NHMTG. YMMV.

JDM
02-09-2012, 11:27 PM
What about followers? I know Magpul has pretty much cornered the market. Are there different versions? I have about 20 orange MP followers in a box. They look like this:
http://img.tapatalk.com/44233287-9c7c-cac7.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/44233287-9c91-febd.jpg

Current issue or trash bound?

JDM
02-09-2012, 11:35 PM
We are fixing to have a good time here in the long gun forum because I'm about as green as it gets when it comes to carbines.

Kyle Reese
02-09-2012, 11:39 PM
How are the Brownells magazines (http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21225/Product/AR-15-M16-20-30-ROUND-MAGAZINES)?

Good to go.

Jay Cunningham
02-09-2012, 11:46 PM
I don't have any issue with the green followers, but I don't have any issue with the MagPul followers either. Brownell's magazines seem like pretty good magazines.

Remember - treat all AR magazines like Bic lighters. Use them until they don't work, then throw them out and get a new one.

Kyle Reese
02-09-2012, 11:51 PM
Remember - treat all AR magazines like Bic lighters. Use them until they don't work, then throw them out and get a new one.

This x1000. Don't fall in love with your gear. Maintain it, but at the end of the day, mags are expendable items. I crushed some of the USGI mags I was issued here, and replaced them with black PMAGs that ran 100% for the duration of my deployment.

When they fail, chuck em.

JDM
02-09-2012, 11:57 PM
Thanks for your help Gents!

Jay Cunningham
02-10-2012, 07:57 AM
Ha ha, good question. Realistically in a carbine class your absolute max load out would be something like ten 30 round magazines. If I'm rolling heavy with ammo I have 5 mags on me and one in the gun. This of course is just to keep the gun fed for drills.

So six is a good minimum for me. But the more you have loaded, the less down time you have. I have 75 30 round NHMTG magazines because I bought them cheap and stacked them deep. They should last for the rest of my life.

Al T.
02-10-2012, 10:59 AM
I like Pmags and at least ten magazines for any platform.

FWIW, last class I had a bunch (like 20ish) magazines loaded. It *really* allowed me to avoid the process of constantly jamming magazines during the breaks. Well worth the money.

EMC
02-10-2012, 11:24 AM
Timely thread.

I'm about to order 15 or so 30 rounders and 5 or so 20s.

I'd like to stick with GI mags.

NHMTG the way to go? what about D&H?

NHMTG are the best alum's available for the money, IMO. They're the same quality as Okay/Colt. Inconsistent reports on D&H.

Jeff22
02-14-2012, 02:15 AM
In 2007 I took a carbine class from Pat Rogers.

Prior to the class I had sorted out all the AR magazines I had accumulated since 1977. The 20 rounders and the 30 round mags from Adventure Line Mfg. are all sorted in a box and I haven't done anything with them yet. I took all the Colt & Parsons Precision 30 round mag bodies I had and put Mag Pul anti-tilt followers and Mag Pul loop things on the floorplates. In 9 of magazines, I installed red springs from Specialized Armament Warehouse (SAW) which reduce the capacity to 28 rounds. (As I only load 27 rounds in a 30 round mag, to make tac reloads easier, that wasn't a big deal)

All the magpul accessories I ordered from Paul Buffoni at Bravo Company. (Paul's prices are good and he ships via USPS Priority Mail which I prefer over UPS & Fed Ex -- I work the midnight shift and I'm never awake when the delivery driver comes, but the US Mail always finds me)(www.bravocompanyusa.com)

I have a couple of Brownell's magazines and they seem to work fine, but they haven't been run very hard and I haven't had them long.

At work we have some GI magazines from D&H (which is a local company) and they seem to be okay as well.

I have half a dozen PMags that I've had for only a few months. I think they're wonderful but I haven't used them as long as many people on this forum.

I don't have any experience with the Lancer Magazines.

rob_s
02-14-2012, 05:58 AM
I generally will tell a new AR buyer to get 10 Pmags.

10 because that gives you 280-300 rounds loaded which will AT LEAST get you through lunch at any training class and will get you through an entire day in many. You can top off at lunch.

Pmags because it can be hard to find NHMTG (the only aluminum mags I suggest) and because people will tend to buy "as good as" when it comes to metal mags and wind up with crap.

I personally have been making the switch back to NHMTG with Magpul followers and Ranger plates. I use different color Ranger Plates to indicate the ammo that is in those magazines (tan for xm193, green for steel-cased, black for Black Hills 75 grain). I like the Ranger Plates because it makes it easier to get them out of deep cans or pouches, and I like the extra traction when monopoding.

I have a rather large storage bin full of Pmags I'm not using now. When I consolidated all of them into one place it was downright scary how many I had accumulated, and how few I had actually purchased. It's insidious how these things worked their way into my chest rigs, battle belts, mag pouches, and range bags. Without any intent I had completely changed over to them.

I have 10 of the newer Lancer AWMs and I like them well enough. They seem a bit harder to seat, even on 28 rounds loaded, on a closed bolt. The new metal feedlips are slicker than snot though and the rounds strip out very easily which should help keep the gun running when things get dirty and sluggish. I won't be changing over to them for my personal magazines because they are still wider than the GI mags and because I can't justify the added cost.

Tamara
02-15-2012, 09:03 PM
Good to go.

This.

Brownells busted their tails to make a quality mag. I was in pretty close email contact with a guy who was there during the torture testing, and none of the ones I received has puked.

JMS
02-22-2012, 12:11 PM
I have 10 of the newer Lancer AWMs and I like them well enough. They seem a bit harder to seat, even on 28 rounds loaded, on a closed bolt.

I've got two of these to try out. Smoke/clear, of the most-current variant; when I'm not beating them up, they're exclusively used for dummy rounds because I find it handy to visually confirm that there's no ammo in them without having to download.

Glad I'm not the only one that that's noticing how hard they are to seat on a closed bolt. Hell, for a while, they were difficult to seat with only 10 rounds in each one (warshots, not dummies). Seems to have hammered itself out, but that was really weird.

John Hearne
02-22-2012, 03:23 PM
If you're going to leave them loaded and ready, I don't like plastic mags as the feed lips will stretch. We just bought a bunch of mags for work. They are meant to be left loaded in a kit for a long time. We went with D&H/DSG. We were able to purchase a teflon coated magazine with a Magpul follower for less than the Brownells magazines.

JDM
02-22-2012, 03:26 PM
If you're going to leave them loaded and ready, I don't like plastic mags as the feed lips will stretch.

Do you have a link to any instances of this happening?

Byron
02-22-2012, 03:29 PM
If you're going to leave them loaded and ready, I don't like plastic mags as the feed lips will stretch.
John,
In your experience, how long has it taken to stretch the feed lips, and has this been with all polymer mags?

I know that the PMAG dust covers led a lot of people to believe that PMAG lips would stretch over time. I've had some PMAGs sitting loaded for 2-3 years now, however, and they're fine (no dust covers on them). They haven't been exposed to any temperature extremes, for whatever that's worth, but I've read other people reporting the same. Curious to hear what you've been seeing.

LittleLebowski
02-22-2012, 04:02 PM
I've never had a problem with polymer mag lips spreading but look forward to hearing about which brand did.

John Hearne
02-22-2012, 10:36 PM
I have never experienced it myself but I'm pretty low-tech when it comes to AR magazines. I still carry an old, aluminum follower 20 round in my patrol rifle and have a couple of aluminum 30's for reloads.

I don't recall where I first heard about the issue of feed lip stretch but for some reason the Steyr AUG comes to mind. If you look at Magpul's manual for the PMAG and the plastic cover, it says "The PMAG™ was designed for long-term loaded storage with the impact cover in place. First, the impact cover prevents feed lip creep (when stored over 1 year)."

Pg 16 at http://cdn.magpul.com/downloads/PMAG%20-%20Product%20Guide%20090430_BETA.pdf

Jay Cunningham
02-22-2012, 10:58 PM
Seems to me that aluminum magazines loaded to 30 rounds would potentially be most susceptible to the feed lip creep thing.

Failure2Stop
02-22-2012, 11:19 PM
While I am no PMag fanboy, I have had a tan windowed PMag I bought a few months after PMags were released and accidentally used last month, which had it stored fully filled for like 4 years without the cover (which was really included to comfort those of us that were highly suspicious of plastic mags initially).
I can't say that every PMag would perform the same, or that none would stretch, but I wouldn't think that they are any less suitable for 5 year storage than any other magazine.
Really, I don't see a need to have hundreds of pre-filled magazines stuffed in a box in a closet.
Go shoot that ammo. Should the apocalypse come, if you are all by your lonesome and you burn through 7 magazines without the opportunity to refill a few magazines from your ammo storage, one of two things has happened:
1) You bit off way more than you can chew and all those spare mags would just be a nice convenience to those that overrun you
2) If you had trained with 9/10ths of that ammo you probably wouldn't suck as bad, and wouldn't have burned through 7 mags in the first place, otherwise, see #1

rob_s
02-23-2012, 05:17 AM
Just to be clear, some of us store AND shoot!

I rotate through most of my stored ammo, but the can with the XM193-filled mags could easily sit unused for a year while the Wolf mags get rotated through almost monthly.

Byron
02-23-2012, 09:10 AM
I have never experienced it myself but I'm pretty low-tech when it comes to AR magazines.
OK - thanks. Based on the certainty of your previous statement ("...I don't like plastic mags as the feed lips will stretch..."), I thought it was something you had experienced.

Regarding PMAGs, here are some relevant posts from NickB @ Magpul:


PMAG feedlips do not creep. We have had magazines loaded with 30 rounds without snap cover for over two years now - no creep whatsoever. As markm pointed out, no good deed goes unpunished - the snap cover is simply protection from dirt/debris intrusion and added insurance that they won't get damaged during storage from impact.
Source (http://m4carbine.net/showpost.php?p=388919&postcount=8)


If your PMAG feedlips spread/creep, give me a call and I'll replace them all with new ones. As far as I'm concerned, that's a small price to pay for evidence of the first creeping PMAG feedlips to date.
Source (http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=392635#post392635)

That second quote is from 2009, so I thought maybe some evidence of creep had come out since then. I have yet to see any, though.

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that the original statement in their 2007 literature about preventing creep was simply an overly-cautious strategy for what was then a relatively new product. Since then, the evidence seems to indicate this hasn't actually ever been an issue.

agent-smith
02-25-2012, 11:54 AM
I've had great luck with Pmags.

FWIW, Brownells has their magazines (20rd and 30rd) for $9.99:

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=21225/Product/AR-15-M16-20-30-ROUND-MAGAZINES

They don't have the whiz-bang Magpul follower, but the Magpul followers are only around $2/each.

billt
02-28-2012, 09:09 AM
I like the Mag-Pul P-Mags as well. I have several of the 30 rounders with both windows, and non windows. But I prefer the 20 rounders at the range because they don't have any interference when shooting from the bench.

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/MidwestIndustriesHandguards002.jpg

http://i812.photobucket.com/albums/zz50/billt460/MidwestIndustriesHandguards005.jpg

Failure2Stop
02-28-2012, 11:24 AM
Just had a guy in class that had HORRIBLE performance with ALL of his Brownells mags.
Also had some issues with PMags in his gun (DPMS lower).

Byron
02-28-2012, 12:04 PM
Just had a guy in class that had HORRIBLE performance with ALL of his Brownells mags.
Also had some issues with PMags in his gun (DPMS lower).
Interesting. Were you able to isolate the mags as the issue, or was it possibly the gun and/or the ammo? Did his gun run fine with other mags?

Chuck Haggard
02-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Just had a guy in class that had HORRIBLE performance with ALL of his Brownells mags.
Also had some issues with PMags in his gun (DPMS lower).


I detect that the issue may not be with the mags.



My non-scientifical study of the P-Mags by leaving a dozen of them loaded with ball/range ammo for over three years (maybe over five now, the older I get the worse my time-lines seem to get) in the trunk of my take-home car shows me that feed lip spread is not an issue regardless of the weather conditions.

I wanted to get a feel of whether there was an issue or not with the P-Mags after having such poor performance from other plastic magazines over the years, so the first few P-Mags I bought were loaded and thrown in the trunk after being test fired for reliability. After being used as range mags for several months without any issues popping up I started using them as my primary mags.

My trunk mags have yet to fail me, and I do nothing to baby them. They get used in training but then get reloaded before leaving the range and thrown right back into the trunk.

Failure2Stop
02-28-2012, 12:53 PM
Interesting. Were you able to isolate the mags as the issue, or was it possibly the gun and/or the ammo? Did his gun run fine with other mags?

Unable to pin the mags as the sole culprit.
Gave him 4 of my "known good" PMags, but he still had problems after a few hundred rounds.
My suspicion is that either his mag-catch or the mag-catch cutout are out of spec.
However, I do think that the initial mags at play also had issues as the mag was catching the bullet tip during feeding.

rob_s
02-28-2012, 03:59 PM
Slight variation on the question: What's the minimum number of mags anyone should have? Assume the baseline shooter is someone who will attend 1 or more classes annually and get to the range once a month or more.

I tell everyone that buys an AR to purchase 11 magazines. This allows you to arrive at class with 10 loaded and one empty. 10 loaded magazines in 280-300 rounds and will get you through AT LEAST lunch on TD1 without having to jam magazines. I would submit that if the class goes over that number of rounds by any serious count on the first day in it's entirety, it is probably not a beginner/intro class anyway. I carry 10 mags in this (http://store.usgruntgear.com/ar10magpubag.html) which I helped design with USGG. I have two of these, one that carries 10 mags with Wolf WPA/Brown Bear and one that carries 10 mags with XM193. I carry one or the other (or both) of these purses to the range any time I take my AR.

I arrive at classes where I'm feeding my own guns my own ammo from my own magazines with 24 loaded magazines in an ammo can. 20 of those magazines contain either XM193 or WPA Wolf/Brown Bear and 4 contain whatever my "go to load" is at the time (currently 75 grain Black Hills). I use the 75 grain for zeroing and/or any distance/precision shooting in the course and the other for everything else. At 560 rounds of blasting ammo that has gotten me through TD1 without jamming mags at all but one course.

In all cases I load magazines in the morning at the hotel/lodging before subsequent training days.

Kyle Reese
02-28-2012, 09:05 PM
Just had a guy in class that had HORRIBLE performance with ALL of his Brownells mags.
Also had some issues with PMags in his gun (DPMS lower).

Hmm...... I've yet to see a Doesn't Pass Military Specs AR make it thru any kind of carbine training class without issues. I was in a class last year and a student had two of them go down. He did not return on Day 2.

P30shtr
02-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Any of you guys tried or heard anything about the TSD mags?

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/tsdcombatsystems-tsd15.aspx#.T02Mi4l5nTo

LittleLebowski
02-28-2012, 09:31 PM
Any of you guys tried or heard anything about the TSD mags?

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/tsdcombatsystems-tsd15.aspx#.T02Mi4l5nTo

They are rebranded, slightly more expensive Lancer AWM mags.

Kyle Reese
02-28-2012, 09:32 PM
Any of you guys tried or heard anything about the TSD mags?

http://www.onesourcetactical.com/tsdcombatsystems-tsd15.aspx#.T02Mi4l5nTo

Looks just like the Lancer AWM....

LittleLebowski
02-28-2012, 09:49 PM
http://rationalgun.blogspot.com/2011/12/gabe-suarez-is-getting-into-ar15.html

Kyle Reese
02-28-2012, 09:51 PM
They are rebranded, slightly more expensive Lancer AWM mags.

Maybe these will actually work in the sand.....:D (inside joke with LL & myself)

joshs
02-28-2012, 10:26 PM
Interesting. Were you able to isolate the mags as the issue, or was it possibly the gun and/or the ammo? Did his gun run fine with other mags?

I was in the same class and also had a bunch of problems with Brownells mags with Magpul followers. My gun (BCM Midlength with Vltor A5 recoil system) also started to have short stroking problems about halfway through the first day of the class. Being under-gassed likely contributed, but I saw the same failure (round stuck on front lip of mag) with Brownells mags, but not with Pmags.

Failure2Stop
02-29-2012, 09:32 AM
I was in the same class and also had a bunch of problems with Brownells mags with Magpul followers.

Didn't realize you were using Brownells mags.
Any idea when they were manufactured?

Tamara
02-29-2012, 10:32 AM
Didn't realize you were using Brownells mags.
Any idea when they were manufactured?
I, too, am curious about this. The ones I got (2x30's and 3x20's) are dated 3-09. I've only put miles on the 20-rounders, and just tossed the 30's on a shelf for a rainy day.

orionz06
02-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Those who saw Brownell's magazine issues, is it possible that the springs are too stiff? I have a few D&H mags from BCM that have ungodly strong springs and they are prone to feed issues.

joshs
02-29-2012, 11:06 AM
Didn't realize you were using Brownells mags.
Any idea when they were manufactured?

Likely 2007 manufacture. I bought a bunch shortly after they came out, but haven't used them much because I had so many Pmags. I'm down to under 10 Pmags, so I thought I'd start using the Brownells mags. I shot about 500 rounds of Wolf through my gun before the class using the Brownells mags with no problems.

I haven't eliminated the possibility that my gun has some type of gas leak or bottleneck somewhere, which may have contributed to the problem. It's possible that with a gun that is getting a full cycle of the recoil system, that the extra drag the lip of the Brownells mags will always be overcome by the force of the spring/buffer, but when there are other magazines available that don't have this problem, I can't see a reason to use the Brownells mags.

LittleLebowski
02-29-2012, 01:01 PM
I'd like to try your Brownells mags with Wolf in my 5.56 Sabre, Josh.

joshs
03-04-2012, 01:37 PM
I'd like to try your Brownells mags with Wolf in my 5.56 Sabre, Josh.

Sure. I don't doubt that it will work. My gun is really optimized for running 5.56 pressure ammo. It's just weird that it worked fine with Wolf for awhile and then completely sucked in class. I couldn't find anything in the gas system that would restrict flow, although there is quite a bit of built up carbon, so the gun may have been right on the edge of reliability with a clean gas system and the carbon buildup was enough of a change to cause short-stroking.

On the Brownells mags, I think I've found the problem. Some of my mags are from 07 and some are from 09. The 09 mags present the round for feeding much higher than the 07 mags.

635
09 mag is on the right.

rob_s
03-04-2012, 06:57 PM
With no rounds in them, do they look like this?

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q111/rob_s/gun%20stuff/e62b7645.jpg

joshs
03-04-2012, 07:05 PM
With no rounds in them, do they look like this?

Yes, but with magpul followers.

LittleLebowski
03-04-2012, 07:37 PM
josh, after the last day of the class; do you feel that the lighter viscosity lube helped?

joshs
03-05-2012, 04:21 PM
josh, after the last day of the class; do you feel that the lighter viscosity lube helped?

A bit, but it was also significantly warmer on Day 2 than Day 1.

I was able to duplicate the "round stuck on magazine lip" stoppage using the "1-09" marked Brownells mags and XM193. I'm starting to think that the Brownells magazines were the main source of my problems.

That Guy
04-08-2016, 03:43 PM
This thread is a few years old. What is the word on new production Brownells magazines?

And I might as well ask a silly n00b question* while I'm at it: 30 rounds vs 20 rounds. Any words of wisdom on the subject?

(* I don't actually even own an AR, yet. The legal paperwork for buying one is being processed and I am researching my options. Speaking of which, a few discussions on this site have been an incredible help! Thank you all.)

BillSWPA
04-08-2016, 03:52 PM
I have the Brownells magazines with the Chrome Silicon springs (which seems to be their default). They seem to be a very good magazine at a good price.

VT1032
04-08-2016, 04:34 PM
This thread is a few years old. What is the word on new production Brownells magazines?

And I might as well ask a silly n00b question* while I'm at it: 30 rounds vs 20 rounds. Any words of wisdom on the subject?

(* I don't actually even own an AR, yet. The legal paperwork for buying one is being processed and I am researching my options. Speaking of which, a few discussions on this site have been an incredible help! Thank you all.)

Depends on what you are doing, but I'd say generally 30's are better. I think they have bit better track record reliability wise, but the big sells to me are the capacity obviously and the ability to monopod the mag in the prone. The older pmag 20's (pre gen 3) had some issues. That said, I own and use 20's that I use when bench shooting. I'd say lancers are probably the best overall AR mags, but in terms of durability and price it's hard to beat a pmag. I've had good luck with the aluminum brownells and ok mags with magpul followers as well.

Appalachained
04-08-2016, 09:46 PM
I use Pmags and Brownell's GI mags with the Magpul followers. If I had to pick one it would be the Brownell's.

Drang
04-09-2016, 03:27 AM
I might as well ask a silly n00b question* while I'm at it: 30 rounds vs 20 rounds. Any words of wisdom on the subject?
I keep finding 20 rounders that somehow followed me home from the Army.
I always liked the 20 rounders, it wasn't like I was expecting to fight the battle of Falujah (not that anyone was at the time, but you know what I mean.) For one thing, 20 round magazines never had the reliability issues that 30 rounder do/did.

That Guy
06-02-2016, 03:40 AM
Are C-Products 30 round .223 magazines, either aluminium or steel, good quality?

Josh Runkle
06-02-2016, 08:53 AM
I've personally had very bad experiences over the last few years with the Magpul 30 rounders. They've worn out very quickly, and I've had various feeding issues, despite the fact that I still only load to 28 rounds. These were shot in various guns, suppressed about 90% of the time.

I have had zero issues with metal magazines with Magpul followers. So, I've ended up just replacing the springs and followers in a lot of old mags, but nowadays, it's cheaper to buy a whole mag with a Magpul follower, than it is to replace the springs and followers. I've used various companies, and had zero issues with the metal mags, as long as they had Magpul followers.

*I'm not an expert in this area, this is just my subjective experience.

GJM
06-02-2016, 09:01 AM
I have been using these:


http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines


Sent from my iPad

Dave J
06-02-2016, 09:12 AM
Are C-Products 30 round .223 magazines, either aluminium or steel, good quality?

I've never used a C-products mag in 5.56mm, but I do have some in 6.8 that I use as range mags. They've worked OK so far, but for a 5.56mm gun I can't see any logical reason to choose them over USGI aluminum mags.

Clusterfrack
06-02-2016, 09:32 AM
I've personally had very bad experiences over the last few years with the Magpul 30 rounders. They've worn out very quickly, and I've had various feeding issues, despite the fact that I still only load to 28 rounds. These were shot in various guns, suppressed about 90% of the time.

I have had zero issues with metal magazines with Magpul followers. So, I've ended up just replacing the springs and followers in a lot of old mags, but nowadays, it's cheaper to buy a whole mag with a Magpul follower, than it is to replace the springs and followers. I've used various companies, and had zero issues with the metal mags, as long as they had Magpul followers.

*I'm not an expert in this area, this is just my subjective experience.

Josh, how did they wear out?

I've also had problems with PMags while shooting suppressed. Suppressor crud seems to cause feed malfunctions and very stiff insertion, even when downloaded to 28. For this reason, I'm using mainly Lancer AWMs.

In my experience, the C-Products steel mags work fine, but the feed lips are super sharp and cut fingers.

Josh Runkle
06-02-2016, 09:39 AM
Josh, how did they wear out?

I've also had problems with PMags while shooting suppressed. Suppressor crud seems to cause feed malfunctions and very stiff insertion, even when downloaded to 28. For this reason, I'm using mainly Lancer AWMs.

In my experience, the C-Products steel mags work fine, but the feed lips are super sharp and cut fingers.

Mine mirror yours. When suppressed, the front of the magazine (Pmag) seems to hold a lot of "grit" and slow down/catch the bullet as it is moving forward.

Default.mp3
06-02-2016, 10:24 AM
Mine mirror yours. When suppressed, the front of the magazine (Pmag) seems to hold a lot of "grit" and slow down/catch the bullet as it is moving forward.Which generation PMAG did you have these issues with?

Josh Runkle
06-02-2016, 10:28 AM
Which generation PMAG did you have these issues with?

5 out of 6 pmags from gen 1, 8 out of 12 from gen 2, 11 out of 12 from gen 3.

Josh Runkle
06-02-2016, 10:34 AM
*I should add: eventually developed these problems. Meaning, out of the bag they might be fine, but they wouldn't make it through a class. I also mark my mags and keep track of malfunctions. They were CONSTANTLY malfunctioning. Mostly, failure to feed.

breakingtime91
06-02-2016, 10:51 AM
I have mostly moved away from magpul and use aluminum gi mags now.

That Guy
06-02-2016, 11:39 AM
They've worked OK so far, but for a 5.56mm gun I can't see any logical reason to choose them over USGI aluminum mags.

Would availability be a logical reason? :) Several stores appear to sell them locally.

And what exactly is an USGI magazine? Obviously, not every aluminium body magazine out there. How, short of enlisting in the US military and stealing a bunch of magazines, does one tell an USGI magazine from other aluminium magazines? And where does one get them, outside of the USA?

Actually, comparing prices, Brownells-brand magazines are about the same price as C-Products magazines, or cheaper when bough in bulk. Am I interpreting things correctly, and that the better course of action would be simply to go all in on the Brownells magazines?

rob_s
06-02-2016, 11:40 AM
I have been using these:


http://www.44mag.com/product/nhmtg_magazine_magpul_follower/223_ar15_magazines


Sent from my iPad

These are the right ones.

Crap-products are to be avoided.

SLG
06-02-2016, 11:43 AM
I mostly use GI mags, but if you haven't tried the Tango Down Arc mags, I highly recommend them.

Dave J
06-02-2016, 12:03 PM
Would availability be a logical reason? :) Several stores appear to sell them locally.

And what exactly is an USGI magazine? Obviously, not every aluminium body magazine out there. How, short of enlisting in the US military and stealing a bunch of magazines, does one tell an USGI magazine from other aluminium magazines? And where does one get them, outside of the USA?

Actually, comparing prices, Brownells-brand magazines are about the same price as C-Products magazines, or cheaper when bough in bulk. Am I interpreting things correctly, and that the better course of action would be simply to go all in on the Brownells magazines?

I can't speak to availability outside of the US, but Brownell's and NHMTG are frequent suppliers to the US military, and are both good to go IMHO.

That Guy
06-02-2016, 12:09 PM
Sounds like Brownells magazines it is, then!

Thank you for your help.

Clusterfrack
06-02-2016, 12:31 PM
Here's another reason PMags aren't my first choice: the second round can tip up, causing very tough insertion:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/5050d69cf0ef9dab426efe32dc3ae7e3.jpg

Kyle Reese
06-02-2016, 04:26 PM
I mostly use GI mags, but if you haven't tried the Tango Down Arc mags, I highly recommend them.

I'm a huge fan of the ARC mags.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

EMC
06-02-2016, 04:39 PM
It is important to note that NHMTG is shutting down ops but Okay industries (a long time producer of quality military contract magazines) is selling to civilians now with magpul followers and calling them "surefeed" magazines. Okay (despite the ironic name) are good to go.

SteveB
06-02-2016, 06:52 PM
I mostly use GI mags, but if you haven't tried the Tango Down Arc mags, I highly recommend them.

These are my go-to plastic mags. I have some "pre-ban" AR's that won't drop Magpuls, but the Arcs drop free every time.

TR675
06-02-2016, 07:51 PM
Here's another reason PMags aren't my first choice: the second round can tip up, causing very tough insertion:
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160602/5050d69cf0ef9dab426efe32dc3ae7e3.jpg

This happens consistently with a few of my Magpul mags. I've had no similar problems with GI mags.

John Hearne
06-02-2016, 08:22 PM
Several years ago, we were troubleshooting our frankenguns at work. The problem was basically a lot of tolerance stacking enhanced by bullet shape. I spent a lot of time with micrometers and different magazines, trying to figure out the problem. I found that the Magpuls presented the top round a bit higher by a few thousandths and that difference made them 100% reliable versus the others we tried including GI aluminium magazines.

BWT
06-02-2016, 08:52 PM
I have about 15 BCM brand D&H magazines with magpul followers that I used for shooting matches and just shooting.

I have about 60+ PSA brand D&H Magazines with magpul followers that I haven't used (but I only had the 15 above BCM brand D&H magazines when Sandy Hook happened and I realized I needed to continually buy more as long as I was able to).

After hearing complaints about PSA D&H magazines not being quality; I picked (at the time) a newly manufactured one and said I'd test it until destruction. That means it'll be the first magazine used and dropped on the ground in a match, and that means it'll be the only magazine shot at the range when I go.

I have approximately 330 rounds through that magazine now including Independence 55gr 5.56x45mm (20), Federal American Eagle XM193 55 gr 5.56x45mm (225), PMC X-Tac XM193 55 gr 5.56x45mm (40), and Federal Lake City Marked XM193 (Crimped Primer) (40) rounds, and 77 gr Black Hills TMK 5.56x45mm (5) through a 12.5'' SBR Carbine length with H2 buffer, 16'' BCM Midlength upper on a lower with an A5H2 buffer (I had one FTE I believe caused by the A5 extension; I re-inserted the round into the magazine after ejecting and fired), and a 16'' BCM Midlength upper with a BCM lower with an H buffer.

Other than the lone above failure to extract which I think is attributable to the midlength gas and heavier H2 A5 (5.33 ounce) buffer for reference BCM's standard A5 buffer is an H0 (3.8 ounce). I have not experienced any other types of failure with D&H magazines with Magpul Followers (had a few issues with out the gate with green followers that was immediately remedied by magpul followers), and there's probably around 10,000 rounds through that magazine type in my hands over about 7 years. I also use predominantly wolf .223 Remington.

Some guys swear by NHTMG, I personally haven't used them. I've seen people load 31 rounds into magpul Pmags and stop the magazine cold along with other issues; I personally won't be buying anymore (I have 2 M2's). I would try the other magazines cited here (the ARC) magazines, but they're double the cost and if I have a known good, why bother?

They're currently on sale for $7. http://palmettostatearmory.com/d-h-5-56-30rd-aluminum-magazine-8416.html

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: I forgot to mention the FTE was when using Independence Ammo which is known for being spotty velocity/quality wise; I fired the rest of the magazine through that same upper/lower with no issue.

ETA 2: Here's an article detailing (surprise) Independence's highly variable velocity speeds. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/05/foghorn/ammunition-consistency-testing-5-56-55gr-winchester-white-box-vs-independence/. Seems as high as 69 fps difference between rounds; I bought it years ago and just wanted to get rid of it.

HCM
06-03-2016, 12:09 AM
I mostly use GI mags, but if you haven't tried the Tango Down Arc mags, I highly recommend them.

The gen 2 versions ?

The Gen 1s were hit or miss - worked great in my S&W AR but would not run in my personal or work issued Colts.

5pins
06-03-2016, 11:07 AM
At the CBP armory we switched to gen 3 Pmags for test firing about a year ago. Over that time each mag has average over 1100 rounds with no mag related failures. So I’m kind of sold on Pmags.

Josh Runkle
06-03-2016, 01:37 PM
At the CBP armory we switched to gen 3 Pmags for test firing about a year ago. Over that time each mag has average over 1100 rounds with no mag related failures. So I’m kind of sold on Pmags.

What amount suppressed? I'm thinking the PMAG issues may largely be related to suppressed DI SBRs/SMGs. I think the material "soaks up" unburnt powder/gunk. Also, do you follow a magazine maintenance schedule?

5pins
06-04-2016, 07:31 AM
No suppressor use.

We don’t do any cleaning or maintenance. The idea was to use them until they stopped working.

SLG
06-04-2016, 07:41 AM
The gen 2 versions ?

The Gen 1s were hit or miss - worked great in my S&W AR but would not run in my personal or work issued Colts.

I believe they only make the gen 2's now. I never used the gen 1's, so I only have experience with the current ones. I really like them.

Casey
06-05-2016, 01:36 PM
Are C-Products 30 round .223 magazines, either aluminium or steel, good quality?
We issue the steel version of these. They are junk. They are needlessly heavy and the feed lips are prone to spreading just from being kept loaded 24/7—not to the point where they're causing double feeds, but enough that they won't reliably drop free. The followers are not anti-tilt, and on several occasions I have personally witnessed the followers binding up inside the magazines, preventing feeding. We have probably 2000+ magazines in use at the site, so it's a decent sample size.

We have been evaluation the M3 PMAG for almost two years now at our range, and we have had zero—as in not one—magazine-related malfunction during live-fire training since switching to those. We have probably 50 of them in use, and we shoot a combined total of around 70,000 rounds per year of .223. That's not a lot at roughly 1,400 rounds per magazine per year, but it's not nothing.

Personally, I've been using D&H magazines with Magpul followers for training (either DSG or BCM-branded). I prefer them to the PMAGs, as they are subjectively easier to seat in my rifles. I also find that they are much easier to pull out of a mag pouch compared to the PMAGs with their ribbed sides and over-insertion stops.

KeeFus
12-31-2017, 11:29 AM
Necropost.

Anyone running the DD magazines? I’ve been running 6 for about a year now with no issues. They’re kept full of rounds and I just shoot them when/as needed. Otherwise I have Pmags (Gen 2 I believe) and have had no issues.

Little Creek
01-17-2018, 04:25 PM
Necropost.

Anyone running the DD magazines? I’ve been running 6 for about a year now with no issues. They’re kept full of rounds and I just shoot them when/as needed. Otherwise I have Pmags (Gen 2 I believe) and have had no issues.

I recently bought a dozen. I have limited experience running two of these magazines. No malfunctions in 223/5.56 and 300 Blackout so far. I have previously run Pmags (Gen 2 and Gen 3) exclusively.

ASH556
01-17-2018, 05:24 PM
I have one DD mag. I've used it as an arbitrary range mag and have never had a malfunction with it. I like it quite a lot in terms of texture, design, etc. Reminds me of the old Magpul Emags (wish I'd bought 100 of those). Currently I've transitioned back from GI aluminum with Magpul followers to Gen 2 PMAGS. I liked the idea of the aluminums withstanding stretching while left loaded, but after rendering a brand new GI mag useless dropping it from the gun during dry reload practice (It landed right on the front corner and deformed to the point that it wouldn't seat without resistance or drop free anymore), I decided I'd use the clips for loaded PMAGS and take my chances. Not to mention, I have previous negative experience with the GI mags sucking to use when they or my hands are wet/cold.

Casual Friday
01-17-2018, 09:39 PM
OG Colt/Okay/NHMTG mags for the AR's and surplus commie war hammer mags for the AK's. These things smell like Cosmoline and bread lines when you get them but they clean up nice. I have some Pmags too. I like them ok for the AR's but I'm not a fan of the MOE Pmags for the AK. Pic for attention.

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