CZ 75B Omega trigger return spring: second breakage in new pistol

[pangloss]

On June 15 last year, I bought a new CZ 75B Omega. As I've mentioned elsewhere, I bought this gun mainly for dryfire practice with the idea that mastering a DA pull will help with shooting my Glocks. Consequently, I dry fire the pistol a lot (relatively speaking). Less than two months after I bought the pistol, the trigger return spring broke. I immediately ordered a three OEM springs from Cajun Gun Works and one CGW reduced power TRS. I put one of the OEM springs in the pistol and started dry firing again. Tonight that second OEM spring broke. It's not worth it to me to keep up with the number of times I dry fire, but I would conservatively estimate that the gun has perhaps 14,000 trigger pulls, though it could be twice that. Regardless, it seems to me that these TRSs really are bad. I'm now on my third spring in a ~9 month old pistol with only 360 live rounds fired through it. I put the CGW reduced power TRS in the gun tonight, and hopefully it'll last longer. In any case, if I carried a CZ, I would definitely swap my OEM TRS for a Cajun Gun Works or Cajun Custom spring.

[scw2]

FWIW, I broke an OEM spring within 2 months of dry fire. I then replaced it with the CGW TRS, and that lasted significantly longer. I'm sure it was in the high 5 or low 6 figures of reps with dry fire before it broke. However, it's one of those things that it's hard to track with dry fire, so it really cemented in my mind the need for a separate dryfire/training gun and carry gun if you're going to do any meaningful amount of practice. Or just be super aggressive with preventative maintenance.

[MSparks909]

I'm not super familiar with CZs but the TRS breakage doesn't seem abnormal for the usage. It's recommended to replace the TRS on a Beretta every 5K trigger pulls, live or dry. If you're dry firing that much, it might make sense to change the TRS every month or two.

[TiroFijo]

TRS break, and more so in some DA/SA designs (CZ75, beretta 92, surely others...).
It is a PITA to keep track of trigger pulls when one does a lot of dry firing, but it seems neccessary. Not sure if preventive maintenance is 100% effective at preventing breakages, though.

How is your slide stop doing? They sometimes break early in the CZs...

[Leroy]

The CZ Custom TRS lasts much longer than the OEM but is heavier.

[Matt O]

In my experience, CZ TRS' routinely shit the bed. I've had this happen with OEM, CGW and CZ Custom versions. I don't think I ever had one last more than 1-2k live fire rounds and a decent amount of dry fire. Perhaps I was just unlucky.

By comparison though, my practice Brig Tac has 5k through it and probably 10k+ dry fire pulls. Still on the original TRS.

[Luke]

What these guys said. TRS = normal wear item. On my tanfo I could actually feel when I spring was getting weak.
Live fire has nothing to do with it so don't feel like with only 360 live rounds nothing should go wrong.

[pangloss]

I'm not super familiar with CZs but the TRS breakage doesn't seem abnormal for the usage. It's recommended to replace the TRS on a Beretta every 5K trigger pulls, live or dry. If you're dry firing that much, it might make sense to change the TRS every month or two.

I didn't know that about Berettas. I'll add some Beretta TRS to my shopping list. I've had my used 92 for a little over a year. Nothing on it has broken, but I have no idea how many trigger pulls that spring has on it. I often dry fire it as well, but not nearly at the volume of the CZ.


How is your slide stop doing? They sometimes break early in the CZs...

I haven't noticed any problems, but I didn't really examine it last night. The dry fire shouldn't cause wear on the slide stop, so I'd be quite surprised if that part broke too.

As for the TRS, at least they are cheap and easy to replace. If this Cajun spring breaks too quickly, I'll definitely try a CZ Custom next time. A heavier spring wouldn't bother me as having a pistol with a heavy trigger is largely why I bought this one. I shot 50 rounds through it after work today, almost all in DA, and didn't experience any problems. I really do like the pistol.

[1986s4]

My CZ is SAO so the movement on the TRS is minimal. I have read that one should keep that spring lubricated for best endurance. I have at least 15,000 rounds through a '91 CZ, converted to SAO by Angus Hobdell. Still on it's original slide stop, I do keep a spare one just in case.
For dry fire training have you tried a DA revolver?

[Flintsky]

I was into classic CZs in about 2004. By 2007 they were all sold off. I had a 75b, P-01, 97b, and 75b Shadow. All of them had problems which included parts breakages and wear issues. Maybe the newer polymer CZs are better?*shrugs*

The late Todd Green saw many of them choke in his classes and he never recommended them for serious use:
https://pistol-training.com/archives/3218

"Zed is not your friend"

[Irelander]

So, is the spring designed poorly or is there some sort of interference that wears on the spring and causes it to break prematurely.

I'm not familiar with the design of the pistol, just curious.

[cheby]

So, is the spring designed poorly or is there some sort of interference that wears on the spring and causes it to break prematurely.

I'm not familiar with the design of the pistol, just curious.

The TRS on CZ is something that needs to be replaced often. I usually replace it every 3K as a preventive measure along with a recoil spring. Usually when I finally clean the gun or before a major match. It costs $2 and takes no time to swap it. They say the new one on Shadow 2 is better one but who cares? Just swap it and be happy.

[Sal Picante]

So, is the spring designed poorly or is there some sort of interference that wears on the spring and causes it to break prematurely.

I'm not familiar with the design of the pistol, just curious.

Replace it weekly and you should be ok.

;)

(I used to break mine weekly...)

[cheby]

(I used to break mine weekly...)

This is how you make a GM:)

[pangloss]

For dry fire training have you tried a DA revolver?

The only DA revolver I have is a J-frame, and I've not done a lot of dry fire with it. I've wanted a full size revolver for a while, but prior to the election, I was pretty focused on getting more autoloaders and hoarding mags. Hopefully I can add a service sized revolver this year.


So, is the spring designed poorly or is there some sort of interference that wears on the spring and causes it to break prematurely.

I'm not familiar with the design of the pistol, just curious.

The spring is a little coil with two arms sticking out and it is always under tension. The longer of the two legs protrudes forward and rides in a little groove in the frame. On this last spring, the long arm broke off pretty close to the coil. Here's a LINK (https://czcustom.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/1/0/10020.jpg) to the image of and OEM spring at CZ Custom. I think that the design probably does contribute to the problem, but I'm mostly speculating as I know virtually nothing about such matters (except that these springs seem to break frequently).

[overton]

Do snapcaps prevent breakages?

[pangloss]

Do snapcaps prevent breakages?

Nope. I've worn some out in this pistol.

[Trooper224]

The TRS is one of the weak points of the CZ design. Keeping it oiled will reduce friction and prolong life, but it will poop the sheets eventually no matter what. If you're going to run a CZ, best to have one gun as a dedicated trainer, so that when failure does happen it's only at the range.

[JonInWA]

The trigger return spring could care less if it's undergoing flexation from dry- or live-fire. Flexation is flexation; that's what causes the wear/metal fatigue and the spring giving up the ghost-at the point(s) of flexation. If you're loath to track you dryfire trigger iterations daily, do this: At least track your trigger pull iterations over one "average" session, and then use that as your calculation multiplier. Replace spring(s) accordingly.

If you're not sure what the replacement interval should be, call the manufacturer's Tech Support-they're usually quite helpful. Alternatively, I suggest every 2K pull iterations (very conservative) or every 5K iterations (pretty liberal). Some guns, (such as Glocks, HK) can go longer; as always, YMMV.

Or, as others have suggested, have one range/practice gun and one carry gun...

Best, Jon

[TiroFijo]

When the oficial CZ team from Czech Republic came here to an IPSC tournament, I asked them about replacement intervals for TRS, slide stops, if they break them and how often, etc. and I got a angry stare back, like "our guns never break"...

[Flintsky]

When the oficial CZ team from Czech Republic came here to an IPSC tournament, I asked them about replacement intervals for TRS, slide stops, if they break them and how often, etc. and I got a angry stare back, like "our guns never break"...

Yeah, they are kinda like the H&K of old. There is a clue when their competition models come with multiple replacement slide stops in the box(already assuming lots of broken stops). I knew a guy in the early 2000s who ran a 75b in competition, and he performed a full overhaul and spring replacement before each competition. I loved the ergonomics and mechanical accuracy of the classic CZs. They were very easy to shoot well. However, a broken slide stop or trigger return spring renders the pistol DRT until it can be repaired. My CZs were relatively low round count(under 10k rounds), when I started breaking slide stops, TRS, and extractors(even with proper chambering via loading from the magazine).

[Super77]

Do these problems extend to the newer designs like the P-07 and P-09?

[Sal Picante]

No
Do snapcaps prevent breakages?

[Sal Picante]

Do these problems extend to the newer designs like the P-07 and P-09?

Omega trigger system parts are bigger-ish, and therefore (to my understanding) more robust - how much moreso, I dunno.

(Heard the Shadow2 TRS and slide stop are bigger too... )

[pastaslinger]

Do these problems extend to the newer designs like the P-07 and P-09?

These use a Sig type lockup so should not have the issue with slide stops
same with the 97b

[LittleLebowski]

BLR might have some thoughts on spring choice and design.

[pangloss]

Omega trigger system parts are bigger-ish, and therefore (to my understanding) more robust - how much moreso, I dunno.

(Heard the Shadow2 TRS and slide stop are bigger too... )

I might not be looking hard enough, but I can't find a different Shadow2 TRS anywhere. Looks like the 75/85/p07/p09 all use the same part. I know nothing about springs, but it seems to me that they could use a larger diameter wire with fewer coils and perhaps get the same spring strength (pure conjecture on my part).

[Sal Picante]

I might not be looking hard enough, but I can't find a different Shadow2 TRS anywhere. Looks like the 75/85/p07/p09 all use the same part. I know nothing about springs, but it seems to me that they could use a larger diameter wire with fewer coils and perhaps get the same spring strength (pure conjecture on my part).


Your Google-foo is weak: http://benstoegerproshop.com/cz-shadow-2-trigger-return-spring/

Tim Meyers has 'em in stock.

[pangloss]

Your Google-foo is weak: http://benstoegerproshop.com/cz-shadow-2-trigger-return-spring/

Tim Meyers has 'em in stock.

Embarrassingly weak. Thanks for the link.

[Super77]

These use a Sig type lockup so should not have the issue with slide stops
same with the 97b

Interesting, what do you mean by SIG-type lockup? How's the CZ75 different?