Beretta M9A3 questions

[Rmiked]

I have a 92A1 and am considering buying another. I started looking at the M9A3 as an option. It seems that they are scarce and have read about some quality issues possibly related to a new plant in TN vs MD? Does the M9A3 have the D spring (hammer) from factory or is it the same as was in my 92A1? Does anyone know if the M9A3 has the recoil buffer like the 92A1? Also, is the guide rod/spring a captured model and is it steel or plastic?

I think the M9A3 looks very nice. Just wondering if it is worth the extra $300. Appreciate any suggestions. Cabelas shows limited stock to shop to store in 5-8 days. There is a store in my town.

[JTQ]

I'm not an owner of either, so take my information with a grain of salt.

Only the 92A1 and 96A1 have the buffer. It is really only there for the 96A1 (.40 S&W), but since the 92A1 has the same frame, it has it too. Note the 92A1/96A1 are the only models with the round disassembly button, all others are oval, and I don't think those slides swap with any other models (other than the discontinued 90-Two).

The M9A3 has the D spring installed from the factory.

[Rmiked]

Thanks. Are you aware of any quality problems? My 92A1 is Italian. I have heard no issues with MD factory. Is the M9A3 being made at a new plant not in MD? If so is that plant having any QC issues? Just wondering

[JSGlock34]

The major 'innovation' of the 90-TWO and 92A1/96A1 was the recoil buffer, which was intended to increase durability when using .40 ammunition. The cost of this dubious improvement was reduced compatibility with the rest of the 92 lineup. Personally I think Beretta's choice to base the M9A3 off the Vertec design and not the 92A1 tells me where the future of the 92 is heading.

[Rmiked]

By reduced compatibility you mean only a 92A1 slide will fit? I imagine the slide dimension from "rear of guide rod to buffer" has to be different than any model w/o a buffer? But the magazines and barrels are interchangeable, correct? Trigger, hammer, related springs, safety/decocker are all interchangeable with 92FS etc, correct?

The Wilson Combat spiral/fluted steel guide rod and std spring work like a champ my 92A1. But I am very open to a different "9" series Beretta. I am sold on the basic design

[Andy T]

M9A3: No recoil buffer, plastic recoil rod with standard (non captured spring). Mine is from TN and I like it. However, it did have an issue - it was missing the roll pin that retained the locking block plunger. I found out the hard way...

[JSGlock34]

Yes that is my understanding.

I have a bit of a purist's aversion to the 90-TWO/92A1, but they are fine pistols (the newly available factory G conversion addressed the model's most significant shortcoming). Still I find the lineage of the Elite, SD, and Vertec lines far more interesting.

[JTQ]

Yes, the 92A1/96A1 are the oddballs in the Beretta M9/92 line-up.

The Vertec/M9A3 slide gives the dovetailed front sight, without the Brigadier slide like the 92A1, but unlike the 92A1, the Vertec/M9A3 is family compatible with the rest of the line-up.

The first time I noticed the oddity of the 92A1, was when I was casually trolling through the Beretta USA website, and noticed it was the only one in the whole line-up with the round disassembly button. When they first came out, I avoided them due to the rail (holster availability compared to a standard M9/92FS), but now I just look at the 92A1 as a dead end gun in the Beretta line-up. When Beretta finds nobody wants to shoot .40 S&W out of 90 series gun anymore (either they give up on .40 altogether, or move to the PX4, APX, or some other maker), I think the 96A1 will go away, and with it will be the 92A1. I suppose the 92A1 could go away right now, and they could keep the 96A1, but if you're already making the 96A1, you might as well keep making the 92A1.

[MSparks909]

I've got a TN made M9A3. No issues. I swapped out the plastic guide rod for the fluted Wilson guide rod. I've been pleased with the gun so far; I'm running a TLR-1 on it and it's my nightstand gun.

[GardoneVT]

The major 'innovation' of the 90-TWO and 92A1/96A1 was the recoil buffer, which was intended to increase durability when using .40 ammunition. The cost of this dubious improvement was reduced compatibility with the rest of the 92 lineup. Personally I think Beretta's choice to base the M9A3 off the Vertec design and not the 92A1 tells me where the future of the 92 is heading.

The 92/96A1s are made in Italy.

The M9A3 was originally made to address the shortcomings of the M9,and as such must be made in the US to fulfill the contract. It signifies nothing significant about Berettas future plans for either model.

[JTQ]

It signifies nothing significant about Berettas future plans for either model.
I think it does. The M9A3 gives the dovetailed front sight, without the Brigadier slide, which was a selling point for the 92A1, but is otherwise compatible with the rest of the M9/92 line-up, while the 92A1 is not.

[Rmiked]

So do you guys think if I took my 92A1 slide off and put in on a 92 FS, it would function? Or is it dimensionally different to accommodate the buffer? If you have never seen the buffer it is probably close to 0.75" long. I have not measured it. I assume the rear edge of the lower half of slide (surrounding guide rod) collides with the buffer. Beretta customer service told me the buffer is an aluminum alloy, obviously softer that the steel slide, and absorbs energy. Sounds like a good idea to me. Anyway, I have wondered IF slide dimensions are somewhat different. Some of the buffers I have seen in guide rod/spring kits are very short compared to the factory buffer. The more buffer length, the more the recoil spring is compressed. That would have to figure in to desired spring rating (11#, 13#, etc). Perhaps the slides are the same and if factory buffer, might need softer spring?

[SLG]

I only have two Beretta in the family, and I very rarely shoot them, but I think very highly of them and (Southnarc) it warms my heart to see so much TDA love going on here.

[Rmiked]

JTQ, I can't tell if you are implying the 92A1 HAS a Brigadier slide or not. But it does not. The main selling points of the 92A1 over a 92 FS are: removeable front sight , recoil buffer, pic rail, 17 round mags (3), and grit resistant mags with V channel ( not coated).

I watched a video of the M9A3 disassembled and it looked like it has the same recoil buffer as the 92A1. Can an owner confirm that?

[JTQ]

JTQ, I can't tell if you are implying the 92A1 HAS a Brigadier slide or not.
I am not saying or implying that. The 92A1 certainly does not have a Brigadier slide. The original M9/92 guns had a front sight that was integral to the slide. When the Brigadier came out, there was enough slide material to allow a dovetail front sight. Next came the 90-Two, that allowed the dovetail without requiring the thick Brigadier slide. That's an advantage. However, the 90-Two was discontinued.

The Vertec slide also allowed a dovetailed front sight without the thick Brigadier slide, and unlike the 92A1, is comparable with the rest of the line-up. I believe the M9A3 is basically the Vertec slide. I expect the 92A1 to go the way of the 90-Two. Other than the .40 S&W 96A1 version, where there is a need for the buffer, there really isn't a reason for the 92A1 now that the Vertec/M9A3 slide is available (it has the front sight dovetail, and a railed frame). I also expect the M9A3 to become the default frame as it gives a rail (something I don't care for, but they are very popular), and the option for both the full M9/92 grip, or the slimmer Vertec grip.

[Rmiked]

Thanks. I am really impressed with the M9A3. Just wish they were not so scarce. Can't see one in person yet. I also think it has an internal buffer. Looked like I saw it in a video after slide removal. Nice color scheme as well

[AdioSS]

So do you guys think if I took my 92A1 slide off and put in on a 92 FS, it would function? Or is it dimensionally different to accommodate the buffer?

No, that will not work at all. You will find that the slide will not be able to go all the way onto the frame. The area of the slide that goes around the guide rod is too big around to fit past the dust cover on the older style frames.

[AdioSS]

The opposite is quite doable though. You can fit any slide onto the 90-two/92A1 frame.

Here's an Inox Brigadier D slide on a 96A1 frame.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/chestonphillips/3F0AF0C8-06AA-4BCC-BC06-5CB55A712467_zpsqpamfyjx.jpg

Here's a Billennium slide on a 90-two frame.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/chestonphillips/3916707F-6083-4E36-A790-7E4FD5A814BD_zpssbqmrlwc.jpg

Here's a 90-two slide on a 96A1 frame & a 96D Compact slide on a 90-two frame, with a Type C hammer ;)
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w249/chestonphillips/64814577-3800-4E41-9A18-19ED4B50E48E_zpsrohx8fas.jpg

[JTQ]

Thanks. I am really impressed with the M9A3.
Keep your eyes and ears open for the upcoming "Langdon Tactical 92"

[MSparks909]

Thanks. I am really impressed with the M9A3. Just wish they were not so scarce. Can't see one in person yet. I also think it has an internal buffer. Looked like I saw it in a video after slide removal. Nice color scheme as well

I own one...no internal buffer. If you want, you can add a Shok Buff from Wilson Combat onto the guide rod/recoil spring. I run shok buffs on all of my metal framed Berettas.

[Rmiked]

Ok. Thanks. My 92A1 buffer a blue-ish color. It looks like a 3/4" long half cylinder, fairly thick (3/32"-1/8"). It looks like it works really well. With the weight of the full size pistol anyway, the steel guide rod I added and a 14# recoil spring, this pistol has hardly any recoil shooting range ammo.

[Rmiked]

AdioSS: Thanks for the interchangeable demo. What a collection of pistols! Nice

[JSGlock34]

The Beretta 92 in 9mm is one of the softest recoiling pistols there is, regardless of the presence of the recoil buffer. The buffer is entirely superfluous on a 9mm Beretta 92 (and of debatable value even in the .40 pistols).

[Rmiked]

Does anyone know when the Langdon Tactical will be available? Is it actually going to happen? That sounds awesome

[El Cid]

Does anyone know when the Langdon Tactical will be available? Is it actually going to happen? That sounds awesome

No idea but if I was in the market for a Beretta I'd be compelled to wait and see what it is before buying anything.

[Rmiked]

Agreed. I may call Beretta tomorrow and see if they know anything in customer service

[AdioSS]

AdioSS: Thanks for the interchangeable demo. What a collection of pistols! Nice
Thank you. I got my first Beretta, an M9, near the end of 2010 & am up to 16 now with another on layaway ;)

Agreed. I may call Beretta tomorrow and see if they know anything in customer service
You would probably get more info from Mr. Langdon himself who posts here regularly.

[SouthNarc]

I only have two Beretta in the family, and I very rarely shoot them, but I think very highly of them and (Southnarc) it warms my heart to see so much TDA love going on here.


Dick.

[SLG]

Dick.

The laughing fit just started up again. I may be going blind.

[Rmiked]

I called Beretta today at the MD facility. They said in MD they mainly do service work now. The new plant in TN is not at full production yet and mostly fulfilling Gov't contracts with pistols manufactured now. There is some retail shipments occurring. He said it will be after Summer and perhaps end of year to get to full production. So the supply of M9A3s will continue to be scarce. He did not know much at all about the Langdon Tactical model but imagined , due to TN factory not at full capacity , that would be later rather than sooner too.

[shaun paterson]

I have a quick question

Does anyone know if the M9A3/Vertec front dovetail will accommodate one of Wilsons front sights set for the 92A1


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[Rmiked]

I don't know but I would bet the dovetail dimensions are identical. A quick call to Beretta USA in MD and they can tell you. I called today asking about the material the slide is made of on the M9A3. The guy pulled up a schematic drawing and told me it is not stainless. They have access to the drawings from which the parts are machined. If you are wondering why I called about the slide material it is because I watched a u-tube review of the M9A3 and the reviewer was complaining about the finish wearing off between the slide and frame. The wear pattern is on the surfaces that can't be seen when the pistol is assembled. He said his SIG and Glocks were not doing that. Non metallic (polymer) materials can be the same color thru the thickness. I don't know if that is the case with SIGs and Glocks but it could be. When any 2 metal surfaces slide over each other by design, the finish (coating, cerakote, bruniton) are all gonna wear off. You see it in the 92 Beretta on the barrel where it slides w/in the slide hood. Anyway, it should be expected that those sliding interfacing surfaces will wear off the finish. Normal maintenance will keep those surfaces lubricated to prevent rust. And again, until the TN facility gets up to full manufacturing capacity, there will be short supply of M9A3s.

[MSparks909]

Same dovetails and the M9A3 is good to go.

[azerious]

One of mine i received had the front sight staked off center badly...

Also the Vertec feels nice, but the standard grip shoots sooo much better. And i have TINY hands (Think cadet size gloves) and prefer the full size grip. Even with the hogue its just not the same. Also lately after having many Beretta's the railed models balance soo much differently in the hand than the standard frames. YMMV

[Rmiked]

So you prefer the railed models? The extra forward weight inproves balance in your opinion? I only have a railed model (92A1) and even replaced the plastic guide rod with steel (adding some weight). I think the balance is great. I also like the thick grips on 92A1. But have not held a thinner grip model. I want to put an M9A3 in my hands and try it out

[shaun paterson]

Same dovetails and the M9A3 is good to go.

Thanks man. Awesome news.

I find the three dot pattern waaaay to busy.

Now if Wilson combat just did international shipping hahaha


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[pastaslinger]

I really want a vertec inox or inox brigadier to build up if we don't see the LT beretta (or maybe even if we do)

I already have a list of things in mind that I would do

[rauchman]

One of mine i received had the front sight staked off center badly...

Also the Vertec feels nice, but the standard grip shoots sooo much better. And i have TINY hands (Think cadet size gloves) and prefer the full size grip. Even with the hogue its just not the same. Also lately after having many Beretta's the railed models balance soo much differently in the hand than the standard frames. YMMV

I picked up an Inox Vertec a year or so ago and agree with the frame comments. My wife has a 1994 92FS and I prefer the full size frame as well over the Vertec. I wear a size L glove with stubby'ish fingers and the full size frame fits my hand perfectly. The Hogue wraparound for the Vertec sounds good in theory, but my guess is it will feel bulky. Once the black M9A3's show up, I'm hoping there is a black wraparound grip to try out.

[cistercian]

I like the M9A3...mine was made in TN. It had rust on the barrel threads which I removed. The trigger is 4 pounds or some less
and I can shoot it very accurately. I love the sights and the easy convertibility to decocker only. It is a wonderful pistol. If you like Beretta 92 series it is a must own gun. I actually laugh at it's color and love the FDE. It is a soft shooting accurate full size duty pistol that is wonderful in hand. I have big hands and really like the normal Beretta grips...but I shoot the vertec style very well...so I have never used the hogue grips. All of the finish on my gun is first rate...and worth the high price of admission. Just buy one and shoot it...it will speak for itself!!!

[LockedBreech]

It had rust from the factory?


I like the M9A3...mine was made in TN. It had rust on the barrel threads which I removed. The trigger is 4 pounds or some less
and I can shoot it very accurately. I love the sights and the easy convertibility to decocker only. It is a wonderful pistol. If you like Beretta 92 series it is a must own gun. I actually laugh at it's color and love the FDE. It is a soft shooting accurate full size duty pistol that is wonderful in hand. I have big hands and really like the normal Beretta grips...but I shoot the vertec style very well...so I have never used the hogue grips. All of the finish on my gun is first rate...and worth the high price of admission. Just buy one and shoot it...it will speak for itself!!!

[cistercian]

It had rust from the factory?

Yes...rust on just the threads of the barrel. Everything else was fine. Of the 3 the LGS had 2 were affected. Some motor oil and diligent work and they are perfect.
It was the only defect on my gun fresh out of the box. One of the 3 had tooling marks visible on the slide. I would inspect a M9A3 personally before buying based on that
sample of 3.

[LockedBreech]

Thanks for the answer. That is a little disturbing. My Italian Berettas have always had extremely good quality control. So does my one from Gallatin (Bobcat 21A). Hopefully just a minor teething issue as they get the new facility up to speed.


Yes...rust on just the threads of the barrel. Everything else was fine. Of the 3 the LGS had 2 were affected. Some motor oil and diligent work and they are perfect.
It was the only defect on my gun fresh out of the box. One of the 3 had tooling marks visible on the slide. I would inspect a M9A3 personally before buying based on that
sample of 3.

[cistercian]

Thanks for the answer. That is a little disturbing. My Italian Berettas have always had extremely good quality control. So does my one from Gallatin (Bobcat 21A). Hopefully just a minor teething issue as they get the new facility up to speed.

The Italian 92A1 I handled at the LGS was very very nice. I was impressed by the fit and finish. I only found the rust by unscrewing the barrel cap...it felt rough and the threads
were full of the rusty oil. After cleaning it was perfectly fine. I guess a sweaty hand or something in assembly. The gun was otherwise completely corrosion/defect free.
The sights were also dead on. I would just check and have heard of some similar stories. One where a owner complained and Beretta made it right re tooling marks.

I think once the new place is up for awhile they will be fine...that being said the fit and finish on the Italian ones is very high...they are fine pistols!!!

[LockedBreech]

I hope your A3 does ya just fine, I imagine it will. :)


The Italian 92A1 I handled at the LGS was very very nice. I was impressed by the fit and finish. I only found the rust by unscrewing the barrel cap...it felt rough and the threads
were full of the rusty oil. After cleaning it was perfectly fine. I guess a sweaty hand or something in assembly. The gun was otherwise completely corrosion/defect free.
The sights were also dead on. I would just check and have heard of some similar stories. One where a owner complained and Beretta made it right re tooling marks.

I think once the new place is up for awhile they will be fine...that being said the fit and finish on the Italian ones is very high...they are fine pistols!!!

[MSparks909]

My M9A3 had orange crap under the thread protector too. It looked more like a preservative than rust to me. At any rate, I wiped it off with a paper towel and that fixed it.

[cistercian]

My M9A3 had orange crap under the thread protector too. It looked more like a preservative than rust to me. At any rate, I wiped it off with a paper towel and that fixed it.

That's what I found. It was rust. I work on machinery for a living and have seen it many times. The barrel and thread protector were fine after cleaning.

We are fortunate to have such nice guns!!! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine!