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View Full Version : Wet tumbling WITHOUT SS pins results



punkey71
03-22-2017, 10:24 AM
My hand me down vibratory cleaner finally died. My FIL bought it in the 80s and I've probably cleaned 100,000 rounds in it over the last 7-8 years. Worked fine (before it stopped) but I wanted to try the Frankfort Arsenal wet tumbler.

The only thing that made me hesitate was the SS pin removal after. Just seemed like it would be a pain, messy and time consuming. I ordered the magnet (and brass dryer) with the tumbler so I have the option but I'm not sure I'm going to need it.

Below are my results. Hot water, dish soap and Lemi-shine. NO pins.

Top - 1 hour

Middle - unprocessed.

Bottom - 2 hours

The 2 hour has a little brighter shine - not sure if you can pick that up in the photo. I'm pretty impressed and will probably do the 2 hour going forward WITHOUT pins.

Tumble, drain, rinse and then put them in the dryer. Pretty simple and very clean VS all the dust from my vibratory tumbler.

I'm sold.

I've got about 2,000 5.56 brass (from a suppressed SBR) in now. They look a lot worse than the 9mm so I'm curious how well the NO pins works with them. Hot water, a little Dawn and some Lemi-Shine again. I'll update when they're done with their 2 hours.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/8745e140cf4bdf46b6f3820293f06cbb.jpg

Table full of 2 hour - the ones that look darker are nickel, not dirty.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/2c1ce2cdfcb2df63776b38c176a6e986.jpg

#Tumbling (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Tumbling)

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NETim
03-22-2017, 10:30 AM
Does the pinless tumble clean corrosion and other yuck from the interior of the cases?

I get cheap thrill bringing old, grungy Pleistocene epoch brass back to life.

punkey71
03-22-2017, 10:34 AM
Pretty well, yes. Sparkling, no.

My standards may be different than yours though.


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Matt O
03-22-2017, 11:03 AM
I tried it with the pins for a while. I've now gone to no pins and there's no way I can see myself going back. The pins are a pain to collect and you always end up with errant ones on the floor, they help bind various caliber cases together and I always had a few pins left in the cases that I'd catch right before they went into the de-priming station.

The cases are definitely less pristine sans pins, but I don't think the difference between the two is meaningful. If anything, I have noticed less issues with "sticky" brass now that I've removed the pins from my cleaning rotation.

punkey71
03-22-2017, 11:08 AM
Yeah. My pins are staying in the package.

NO pins is fine for my 9mm loading.


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punkey71
03-22-2017, 11:58 AM
Left 2 hours

Center 1 hour

Right unprocessed
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170322/ec8f1503d6cf41710f9dc2da95a0bff5.jpg


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ralph
03-22-2017, 12:21 PM
I started tumbling without the pins awhile back, as I found that when you get pistol cases sparkling clean, I started having problems with the cases sticking to the powder funnel on my dillion presses. The residue that's left inside the cases after tumbling provides enough of a lube to prevent the cases from sticking. I also found out that by leaving the pins out the capacity of the tumbler is now increased. My tumbler is rated for 17lbs total, So, 5lbs of pins, gallon of water (8lbs) leaves you with 4lbs of cases that you could tumble. Without the pins, now you can load 9lbs of cases. I usually run my pistol cases about 45minutes, they come out clean. Like any other tumbler, the more cases you can get into it without overloading, the better the results are. After tumbling, I put them in the dryer for an hour. Also, I don't deprime the cases before tumbling either, an hour in the dryer and the primer pockets are dry, even with the spent primers left in place. Getting the primer pockets sparkling clean is pretty much a waste of time,especially with pistol ammo. Rifle cases being loaded for a match, yeah, I could see doing it, but for most practice ammo, no..

Luke
03-22-2017, 12:39 PM
GuanoLoco doesn't use pins and he is the SPOC of anything reloading.

mmc45414
03-22-2017, 12:56 PM
For years I had one of these:
15000
before the stainless pins were a thing. I used their solution, and they always came out very shiny.

Though I did some 9mm military cases that I bought cheap and wished I had not, and tumbled them with the pins, and I went from being tempted to trash them to having them look like they were just struck from the die:
15001
I setup a decap die and cranked them through the 650 to pop the primers out, partially because I was curious to see how the primer pocket would come out but mainly because I will probably swage them.

But the pins are awesome, but they are a PITA, and my RCBS experience is that unless the cases are REALLY nasty you don't need them.

I will continue to utilize both the F.A.R.T and the Dillon vibrating bowl. One consideration with liquid is I might run them after sizing, and at that point they will not have primers and another advantage is there will be nothing to get stuck in the flash hole.

Clusterfrack
03-22-2017, 01:02 PM
Punkey71--This is looking a lot more interesting to me now that you've shown that the pins aren't needed. I'm considering getting a $150 cement mixer from Harbor Freight so I can process in bulk. The only remaining problem to be solved is drying. Humidity inside my house is pretty low (30%RH)--even martial arts gi's dry very quickly. So, I'm thinking that simply laying the brass out on a towel may be sufficient.

mmc45414
03-22-2017, 01:14 PM
So, I'm thinking that simply laying the brass out on a towel may be sufficient.
Back when the RCBS was all I had I would wet tumble with the primers and just leave them on a towel, tipped over flat, and they would dry in a day or two. You could probably submerge a few cases, and leave them overnight and pop a primer out and see if they are dry.

LittleLebowski
03-22-2017, 01:14 PM
GuanoLoco doesn't use pins and he is the SPOC of anything reloading.

He's also gone a little Colonel Kurtz but we don't talk about that much :D

https://apocalypsenowpma.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/tumblr_lyojt5iz5h1r9mht3o1_500.gif

Sal Picante
03-22-2017, 01:33 PM
Wait... You have to clean pistol brass?

Who knew?

Peally
03-22-2017, 01:35 PM
Looks good to me. They're only going to get covered in crap again the second you shoot them, so that little work to get them looking that good is a win in my book.

Clusterfrack
03-22-2017, 02:10 PM
Another reason I'm considering wet tumbling is how much easier the wax-treated brass goes through the resizing die, compared to my dry-tumbled brass. A buddy brought over some of his wet-tumbled brass and we didn't have to use any case lube spray before loading.

punkey71
03-22-2017, 02:36 PM
Another reason I'm considering wet tumbling is how much easier the wax-treated brass goes through the resizing die, compared to my dry-tumbled brass. A buddy brought over some of his wet-tumbled brass and we didn't have to use any case lube spray before loading.

I've already noticed how there is no dust, dirt, small pebbles etc in my casefeeder now.

It's not so much clean(er) brass, it's a cleaner reloading process.

As much as I did everything I could to get the media out of the brass there was always some residue that got somewhere I didn't want it.

Obviously not everyone is a fan or even thinks it's necessary but I'm happy with it.


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GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 04:22 PM
Punkey71--This is looking a lot more interesting to me now that you've shown that the pins aren't needed. I'm considering getting a $150 cement mixer from Harbor Freight so I can process in bulk. The only remaining problem to be solved is drying. Humidity inside my house is pretty low (30%RH)--even martial arts gi's dry very quickly. So, I'm thinking that simply laying the brass out on a towel may be sufficient.

Either hold out for the $300 Home Depot unit or make sure you get the 2 year extended warranty from Harbor freight. I blew up 2 HF mixers before I have up. The unit is OK but the motor is cheap chinese garbage.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 04:25 PM
Does the pinless tumble clean corrosion and other yuck from the interior of the cases?

I get cheap thrill bringing old, grungy Pleistocene epoch brass back to life.

Well enough.

1) I suggest an initial cycle without chems for 10+ minutes to knock the major gunk off, then drain, refill and add chems. 1-2 rinse / refill cycles are rather effective.

2) Citric acid in bulk from Amazon vs. Lemishine is cheaper.

3) Try Armor All Wash-n-Wax vs. Disk soap.

4) How clean do the insides need to be? Even without pins I find the insides to be more than clean enough and a little carbon/wax deposit helps keep excessively clean case mouths from sticking on the powder funnel.

punkey71
03-22-2017, 04:36 PM
GL,

Is the AA wash n wax a better cleaner or is it a case lube of sorts for you?


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SecondsCount
03-22-2017, 05:31 PM
....
4) How clean do the insides need to be? Even without pins I find the insides to be more than clean enough and a little carbon/wax deposit helps keep excessively clean case mouths from sticking on the powder funnel.

I agree and have never worried about the insides of the case or the primer pockets.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 06:22 PM
GL,

Is the AA wash n wax a better cleaner or is it a case lube of sorts for you?


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It seems to clean quite effectively and is a bit of an anti-tarnish. Probably not enough wax left on it to qualify as a lubricant.

Also, don't underestimate the value of drying wet brass quickly. Wet brass tarnishes quickly, and moisture in primer pockets can be surprisingly difficult to drive off. I am definitely a fan of thorough forced drying using a dehydrator or equivalent device.

punkey71
03-22-2017, 06:29 PM
It seems to clean quite effectively and is a bit of an anti-tarnish. Probably not enough wax left on it to qualify as a lubricant.

Also, don't underestimate the value of the road drying quickly. Wet brass tarnishes quickly, and moisture in primer pockets can be surprisingly difficult to drive off. I am definitely a fan of thorough forced drying using a dehydrator or equivalent device.

Awesome, thanks

The dehydrator is backordered on Amazon for a month so I'm just towel drying and then into the oven for 15 mins in the meantime.

I was unsure about the dehydrator but your endorsement settles it.


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ralph
03-22-2017, 06:34 PM
It seems to clean quite effectively and is a bit of an anti-tarnish. Probably not enough wax left on it to qualify as a lubricant.

Also, don't underestimate the value of the road drying quickly. Wet brass tarnishes quickly, and moisture in primer pockets can be surprisingly difficult to drive off. I am definitely a fan of thorough forced drying using a dehydrator or equivalent device.

The dehydrator is what I use, I got lucky and had one from a beef jerky kit I had bought few years earlier. I'd made a few batches of jerky, but since my wife dosen't care for jerky, I ended up eating all of it, so, I lost interest in it and packed it all up. It sat on the attic steps for 2-3years. Now, I've found a use for the dehydrator. They do work well, an hour in the dehydrator, and the cases come out so hot they'll burn your hands, they are indeed quite dry.

The way I see it, most vibratory tumblers are designed to fail. With the shaft extending theough the motor, with a weight offset on it causing the vibration, the bearings in the motor will eventually fail. This was the main reason for me looking at another way to clean cases. I had two of the large Dillon tumblers, in both the motors failed. I took one down to a local motor shop to see if I could get a new motor and install it myself, after all, the motor was made by Emerson Electric, they tried to order one only to find out that that motor was a proprietary motor, meaning Emerson made them for one customer, and one customer only... Dillon. Dillon wanted $110 plus shipping to "rebuild" it, clearly, it would've been cheaper to buy a new one. I suspect this was the idea all along.

Anyway, I'm happy with what I have, since the motor drives the tumbler via a belt, it should last 5 times as long, and should it burn out replacement motors/belts are easily available. At this point I don't see myself going back to a vibratory tumbler, the wet tumblers do just a good of a job, and one dosen't need to buy media, or worry about lead dust. Water, dish soap,lemishine are all cheap.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 06:44 PM
Just make sure you run it long enough. A buddy recently processed a 5 gallon bucket of 223 brass and didn't dehydrate long enough. The stuff on the top was hot but it wasn't all dry. He put it all in a 5 gallon bucket with a lid and then loaded a couple thousand rounds sometime later. After he had some hang fires and duds he disassembled a few rounds and realized that the powder was wet and clumpy. His prize batch of match ammo is now practice ammo or scrap. That was an expensive and time-consuming mistake.

ralph
03-22-2017, 07:07 PM
I use the racks/base that came with the dehydrator, they all stack on top of each other, and the hot air circulates all around, like it's supposed to. Putting the heating/ fan unit on top of a 5 gallon bucket of brass, and hitting the switch, (if I'm understanding correctly)with no real way for the air to circulate, is in my opinion begging for trouble... That idea might have worked if he had made some racks, and spaced them about a inch apart, so that the hot air could move around. The dehydrator I have is large enough that I can fit 9 lbs of whatever brass I'm drying, into it. It only takes a hour to dry them this way.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 07:19 PM
I use the racks/base that came with the dehydrator, they all stack on top of each other, and the hot air circulates all around, like it's supposed to. Putting the heating/ fan unit on top of a 5 gallon bucket of brass, and hitting the switch, (if I'm understanding correctly)with no real way for the air to circulate, is in my opinion begging for trouble... That idea might have worked if he had made some racks, and spaced them about a inch apart, so that the hot air could move around.

No, he used an 8 rack 500 watt bottom dehydrator for 5 gallons of brass for 2 hours - obviously not enough - then transferred the brass to a 5 gal bucket with a lid which trapped any residual moisture. It was even decapped/sized/trimmed 223 brass which normally dries much quicker than brass with primers still in it.

I'm repeating the story as I understood it after working with him to troubleshoot his process.

ralph
03-22-2017, 07:24 PM
Oh ok, I did'nt completely understand, my bad. The last batch of .223 I did I had loaded up my dehdrator pretty full, still it took only a hour. One thing I also do is to grab a few cases from different racks and deprime them(I've got a Harvey depriming tool) and look in the primer pockets for moisture. So far, I've had no problems.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 07:51 PM
Put a sample of dried brass in a freezer bag and let it sit overnight. If there is condensation on the inside of the bag in the morning then it wasn't dried enough.

Shawn Dodson
03-22-2017, 09:15 PM
I air-dry my brass overnight (9mm, 5.56, and 6.8mm). No issues with tarnishing. They're always bone dry after 24 hours. I put them upside down in the black trays that factory pistol ammo comes in - the ones that are open at the bottom. I put the trays filled with wet brass on a dry bath towel. (I fish the trays out of the shitcans at my shooting club.)

I use the Extreme Tumblers Rebel 17 with SS pins that I bought from stainlesstumblingmedia.com.

GuanoLoco
03-22-2017, 10:53 PM
I air-dry my brass overnight (9mm, 5.56, and 6.8mm). No issues with tarnishing. They're always bone dry after 24 hours. I put them upside down in the black trays that factory pistol ammo comes in - the ones that are open at the bottom. I put the trays filled with wet brass on a dry bath towel. (I fish the trays out of the shitcans at my shooting club.)

I use the Extreme Tumblers Rebel 17 with SS pins that I bought from stainlesstumblingmedia.com.

Where do you like (curious about relative humidity)?

How much brass are you dealing with at a time?

LittleLebowski
03-23-2017, 08:18 AM
Would this citric acid powder (https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-NON-GMO/dp/B00EYFKNL8/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1490275082&sr=8-1&keywords=citric+acid+powder) be a cheap alternative to Lemishine?

LittleLebowski
03-23-2017, 08:24 AM
Awesome, thanks

The dehydrator is backordered on Amazon for a month so I'm just towel drying and then into the oven for 15 mins in the meantime.

I was unsure about the dehydrator but your endorsement settles it.


The dehydrator is the best way.

GuanoLoco
03-23-2017, 08:36 AM
Would this citric acid powder (https://www.amazon.com/Milliard-Citric-Acid-Pound-NON-GMO/dp/B00EYFKNL8/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1490275082&sr=8-1&keywords=citric+acid+powder) be a cheap alternative to Lemishine?

Yes. I keep the bulk in a sealed package and then just refill my old Lemishne botles from time to time.

punkey71
03-23-2017, 09:02 AM
The dehydrator is the best way.

Only doing it until my dryer ships.

Definitely on board with the Frankford Brass Dryer.


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SeriousStudent
03-23-2017, 09:45 PM
I should have these arriving this weekend.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOE5K5Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RPABBG0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OZFECU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1


Thanks for the ideas.

Jim Watson
03-23-2017, 10:54 PM
You definitely need a dryer or dehydrator or low oven (which is what I use to dry my black powder brass.)
A friend thought he could cheap out and air dry cases. Now he has a couple hundred with wet loads that won't shoot.

GuanoLoco
03-24-2017, 12:02 AM
I should have these arriving this weekend.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IOE5K5Y/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RPABBG0/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OZFECU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

Thanks for the ideas.

The Tumbler looks heavy duty but you are a short step from a cement mixer (http://www.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-3-5-cu-ft-2-3-HP-Contractor-Duty-Cement-and-Concrete-Mixer-CME35/202565557?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CG%7C0%7CG-BASE-PLA-D22-Concrete%7C&gclid=CjwKEAjw5M3GBRCTvpK4osqj4X4SJAABRJNCQcjJoDvx H6F9mC9zrdYCXk4QdvkVQyLS7uLn2hcpxRoCJ1Tw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds). Price varies between about $300 and $450 delivered.

mmc45414
03-24-2017, 08:04 AM
Yes. I keep the bulk in a sealed package and then just refill my old Lemishne botles from time to time.

Amazon order placed, need to go get the Lemishine bottle out of the recycling bin (and probably wash off the beer can dribble...).

As has been discussed, seems like the rate that cases will air dry has a lot to do with the environment. I am working in the basement so I am inside a conditioned environment but I did a lot back when I had the RCBS and I would pour them out on a towel and grab the ends and roll them back and forth inside the towel, then lay them all over flat and pistol cases with primers would be ready in a day or two. Typically I would get everything clean in a run up to loading a batch. But you can't speed up the process (the dryers were not a thing back then) so I switched over to the dry, then I got tired of the dry and am switching back, but I will keep both now.

But I sure can see how you would ruin a bunch of rounds quick by being a day too early, especially with bottleneck cases and the dryer would be a good addition if you were going to do wet exclusively.

martin_j001
03-24-2017, 09:44 AM
Well enough.

1) I suggest an initial cycle without chems for 10+ minutes to knock the major gunk off, then drain, refill and add chems. 1-2 rinse / refill cycles are rather effective.

2) Citric acid in bulk from Amazon vs. Lemishine is cheaper.

3) Try Armor All Wash-n-Wax vs. Disk soap.

4) How clean do the insides need to be? Even without pins I find the insides to be more than clean enough and a little carbon/wax deposit helps keep excessively clean case mouths from sticking on the powder funnel.


After the initial rinse/refill cycle, how long do you let it run for? Definitely going to give the ArmorAll Wash and Wax a try.

GuanoLoco
03-24-2017, 10:13 AM
After the initial rinse/refill cycle, how long do you let it run for? Definitely going to give the ArmorAll Wash and Wax a try.

With my 3.5 cu ft, 2/3 hp cement mixer (http://www.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-3-5-cu-ft-2-3-HP-Contractor-Duty-Cement-and-Concrete-Mixer-CME35/202565557?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D22-Concrete%7c&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5oH0lKC5EP aK7c4FAhZ-jGgKRe31c3ECeVD0EPbrbKehoC8ubw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds) it is pretty easy to run it outside, tip and drain, and use the hose to rinse out the dirty water. There is plenty of capacity, agitation is good, and I can use a lot of water before suds start slopping out.

Current formula (5 gallons of brass):

10 minutes pre-wash no chems
20 minutes with more soap/ctric acid. Not really measuring. Too much suds - use less soap.
20 mins with little soap/citric acid. Brass is already pretty clean so not much soap required.

This is currently my 'heavy' process and I'm pretty sure I could get away with less but don't see the point. I continually experiment with the process.

YMWV.

Clusterfrack
03-24-2017, 10:23 AM
GL--is the cement mixer with metal or plastic drum better?

GuanoLoco
03-24-2017, 11:12 AM
I've only ever used a Thumler Tumbler (B model IIRC) with a rubber liner, and Harbor Freight then Lowes Cement mixers. I'm not sure there is any 'better' with metal/plastic/rubber. The paint steadily wears off the metal. The rubber appears unscathed. I'm sure the plastic would get rougher with use. Not sure it matters - the cases effectively become the media when you ditch the SS pins.

If you are looking at the Franklin wet FART plastic tumbler it looks pretty good. I've contemplated replacing my Thumler with one (higher capacity, lower cost).

When I process 223 I like to use the cement mixer to start then the Thumler with SS pins to finish, theory being the pins chamfer/debur the trimmed case mouth and make extra shiny. Next time I will do the second pass in the cement mixer with no media and am pretty sure it will be good enough. The Thumler will then get sold/retired. Although it is pretty handy for cleaning rusty steel tools or small parts.

SeriousStudent
03-24-2017, 07:14 PM
The Tumbler looks heavy duty but you are a short step from a cement mixer (http://www.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-3-5-cu-ft-2-3-HP-Contractor-Duty-Cement-and-Concrete-Mixer-CME35/202565557?cm_mmc=Shopping%7CTHD%7CG%7C0%7CG-BASE-PLA-D22-Concrete%7C&gclid=CjwKEAjw5M3GBRCTvpK4osqj4X4SJAABRJNCQcjJoDvx H6F9mC9zrdYCXk4QdvkVQyLS7uLn2hcpxRoCJ1Tw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds). Price varies between about $300 and $450 delivered.

I had considered it. Sadly, its main attraction is its chief drawback for me - size.

I am renovating an upstairs bedroom into a reloading room. Lugging a cement mixer upstairs is not in the cards.

GuanoLoco
03-24-2017, 08:37 PM
I had considered it. Sadly, its main attraction is its chief drawback for me - size.

I am renovating an upstairs bedroom into a reloading room. Lugging a cement mixer upstairs is not in the cards.

I have a lot of garage space and can just roll it outside where a hose is handy. Svelte, light and quiet it is not.

Clusterfrack
03-24-2017, 08:47 PM
4# of brass just doesn't cut it for my needs... cement mixer seems like my best option.

mmc45414
03-24-2017, 08:55 PM
quiet it is not.
I laugh and wonder what the neighbors thought I was doing when I borrowed my buddy's.

jeep45238
03-25-2017, 10:58 PM
The Thumler will then get sold/retired. Although it is pretty handy for cleaning rusty steel tools or small parts.

Very interested....

GuanoLoco
03-25-2017, 11:42 PM
Very interested....

Not quite ready yet, probably wait until my next rifle brass processing cycle. Let me think about it.

LittleLebowski
03-26-2017, 07:13 AM
Very interested....

If that doesn't work out, I've had good luck with the Harbor Freight dual drum that you can get for under $50 and then convert to a single drum (for ease of use and additional capacity) using PVC pipe. I will do this conversion sooner or later but you can find tutorials online or I can dig it up for you.

ralph
03-28-2017, 07:49 PM
4# of brass just doesn't cut it for my needs... cement mixer seems like my best option.

Without the pins, you can another 5 lbs of brass, 9lbs brass +1 gallon of water (8lbs per gallon) = 17lbs or what the rebel tumbler is rated for...

jeep45238
03-28-2017, 08:00 PM
If that doesn't work out, I've had good luck with the Harbor Freight dual drum that you can get for under $50 and then convert to a single drum (for ease of use and additional capacity) using PVC pipe. I will do this conversion sooner or later but you can find tutorials online or I can dig it up for you.

Looks pretty simple. Doesn't look like it'll add much to capacity, but much eaiser to use. Thanks for the head sup on the drum replacement

cheshire_cat
04-01-2017, 03:56 PM
I did the first batch in the FART today of 9mm for 1 hour, no depriming and no pins. For drying I put some paper towels in the media separator and "tumbled" that for about 15 rotations, then put them in the oven for 15 min at 200 degrees in the oven after preheating it. They were dry, a bit hot to the touch and no water on the inside. I set it for 150 degrees and did 5 more min just in case. The results were better than dry tumbling for 4 hours.

mmc45414
04-01-2017, 05:23 PM
Have been shooting the 1911 the past several weeks and am almost out of 45. Was good to be able to throw some once fired cases in the Dillon and have something loadable an hour later.

Super77
04-02-2017, 12:28 AM
FWIW Home Depot is selling a cement mixer for $229 on sale until the 9th. Seems like the 17lb tumbler will work better for me but here's a link if anyone's interested:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-3-5-cu-ft-2-3-HP-Contractor-Duty-Cement-and-Concrete-Mixer-CME35/202565557?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D22-Concrete%7c&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5oH0lKC5EP aK7c4FAhZ-jGgKRe31c3ECeVD0EPbrbKehoC8ubw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

GuanoLoco
04-02-2017, 05:03 AM
That's an AWESOME price!!! I've seen it at $300 twice but never $229!

LittleLebowski
04-02-2017, 08:09 AM
FWIW Home Depot is selling a cement mixer for $229 on sale until the 9th. Seems like the 17lb tumbler will work better for me but here's a link if anyone's interested:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/PRO-SERIES-3-5-cu-ft-2-3-HP-Contractor-Duty-Cement-and-Concrete-Mixer-CME35/202565557?cm_mmc=Shopping%7cTHD%7cG%7c0%7cG-BASE-PLA-D22-Concrete%7c&gclid=CjwKEAjwh9PGBRCfso2n3ODgvUcSJAAhpW5oH0lKC5EP aK7c4FAhZ-jGgKRe31c3ECeVD0EPbrbKehoC8ubw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Niiice.

fly out
04-02-2017, 11:09 AM
A question for anyone who has gone this cement-mixer route...can you use one device for both the occasional small-scale concrete project, and for brass? Or does using it for concrete sort of foul it up forever? If this could be a dual-purpose device, it's a no-brainer at $219 (which is the price I see when I click through). If it is best to have a dedicated unit for tumbling, I think I'll pass.

Thanks.

ralph
04-02-2017, 11:28 AM
A question for anyone who has gone this cement-mixer route...can you use one device for both the occasional small-scale concrete project, and for brass? Or does using it for concrete sort of foul it up forever? If this could be a dual-purpose device, it's a no-brainer at $219 (which is the price I see when I click through). If it is best to have a dedicated unit for tumbling, I think I'll pass.

Thanks.

The only way that would work is if you cleaned every speck of concrete out of the mixer after you're done... Good luck with that. After 32 years in construction, I can honestly say I've never seen a concrete mixer that did'nt have concrete leftover from use, even after being cleaned..Any leftover concrete will probably scratch the brass up not to mention the possibilty of small bits getting to places they should'nt, like in the brass itself. Just think what would happen to the bore of your pistol/ rifle if a tiny piece of concrete got shot down the barrel...

fly out
04-02-2017, 12:24 PM
Pretty much exactly what I was afraid of.

I guess I can add dual-purpose cement mixers to the list of things that'll get you killed on the streets.

jeep45238
04-02-2017, 06:59 PM
Pretty much exactly what I was afraid of.

I guess I can add dual-purpose cement mixers to the list of things that'll get you killed on the streets.

Touche - and at $219, that cement mixer is on the price point of an Extreme 17 tumbler. If you have the space for it and go through a lot of brass, I think it merits consideration, even as a single-use item.

That said, I went with a F.A.R.T. off amazon and a F.A. dryer off opticsplanet (cheaper than amazon, plus gave a 5% discount). Snagged some wash-n-wax on sale at autozone today.

I'm really looking forward to not having lead-soaked dust everywhere, or having a dusty coating on all my brass when it comes out of the dry tumbler.

Dry tumbler will be repurposed as a brass sorting device to go with my shell sorting plates, and a .380 plate I ordered yesterday. Just need to get the brass wand and I think I might actually enjoy brass prep again!

mmc45414
04-04-2017, 07:34 PM
Just did my first F.A.R.T. load without pins. Dawn and the citric acid from Amazon (Need to pick up the Armorall), spin it up to the two hours on the timer, head to the gym, and when you get back you gotta some shiny brass...
15364

Super77
04-04-2017, 11:15 PM
Pardon my ignorance but how does one use a tumbler to sort brass?

jeep45238
04-05-2017, 12:27 AM
Pardon my ignorance but how does one use a tumbler to sort brass?

https://youtu.be/-HaiW8e33a0


Works like a charm. I drilled a hole in the bottom of a bucket, left the bowl on the vibratory tumbler, put bucket over rod, snugged the wing nut with lock tite, and dropped the sorting plates in.

Not perfect, but so much faster than doing it all by hand


Also did my first load through my fart today:

https://youtu.be/2SnhVyYhsc4

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Luke
04-05-2017, 04:57 AM
https://youtu.be/-HaiW8e33a0


Works like a charm. I drilled a hole in the bottom of a bucket, left the bowl on the vibratory tumbler, put bucket over rod, snugged the wing nut with lock tite, and dropped the sorting plates in.

Not perfect, but so much faster than doing it all by hand


Also did my first load through my fart today:

https://youtu.be/2SnhVyYhsc4

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GuanoLoco

GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 06:32 AM
Hmmph ... and someone snekked our buddies vibration table / case gauge before I could get to it...

jeep45238
04-05-2017, 07:59 AM
Hmmph ... and someone snekked our buddies vibration table / case gauge before I could get to it...

Curious minds would like to know how to use said table/bucket concept for a case gauge....

Have Hundo, would love to automate that even more

LittleLebowski
04-05-2017, 08:18 AM
Curious minds would like to know how to use said table/bucket concept for a case gauge....

Yup.

GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 08:29 AM
I haven't seen more than a picture of said device, but basic idea as I understood it, was to build a wood funnel with a Hundo case gauge in center, put it on a vibration table (or bolt to a vibratory tumbler), throw in a few handfuls of loaded cartridges and wait. Cartridges are nose heavy and tend to fall into case gauge holes.

jeep45238
04-05-2017, 08:38 AM
I haven't seen more than a picture of said device, but basic idea as I understood it, was to build a wood funnel with a Hundo case gauge in center, put it on a vibration table (or bolt to a vibratory tumbler), throw in a few handfuls of loaded cartridges and wait. Cartridges are nose heavy and tend to fall into case gauge holes.

If you have the pic, can you share? Trying to get an idea for how steep the sides should be. I'm imagining relatively gentle angles would work best.


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GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 08:55 AM
If you have the pic, can you share? Trying to get an idea for how steep the sides should be. I'm imagining relatively gentle angles would work best.


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I knew you would ask for that. Had to scroll back through about 1000 messages on the gun/shite talk text channel that runs incessantly with all my shooting girlfriends. Finally found it - had to look all the way back to Sunday. Crazy how many messages and pictures.

Doesn't look that bad if you have some basic woodworking tools and skills. He claims it works, no idea how well though.

1slow
04-05-2017, 09:22 AM
How would using an old clothes dryer work for drying brass? Either by putting it in in mesh bags or just using the exhaust hose as a hot air source for drying brass.

Thanks for the heads up on the Home Depo $229 cement mixer. Incoming.

Is there any advantage to the black vs gray Hundo case guage ?

jeep45238
04-05-2017, 09:30 AM
How would using an old clothes dryer work for drying brass. Either by putting it in in mesh bags or just using the exhaust hose as a hot air source for drying brass.

Thanks for the heads up on the Home Depo $229 cement mixer. Incoming.

I've seen videos of people washing in clothes washers and drying in clothes driers. I would do it in one you do laundry in, but the concept is the same as a dehumidifier (heat and force the air out). I'd imagine better results in the tub for agitation and air circulation.


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jeep45238
04-05-2017, 09:30 AM
I knew you would ask for that. Had to scroll back through about 1000 messages on the gun/shite talk text channel that runs incessantly with all my shooting girlfriends. Finally found it - had to look all the way back to Sunday. Crazy how many messages and pictures.

Doesn't look that bad if you have some basic woodworking tools and skills. He claims it works, no idea how well though.

I'll have to give that a whirl.


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GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 09:42 AM
How would using an old clothes dryer work for drying brass? Either by putting it in in mesh bags or just using the exhaust hose as a hot air source for drying brass.

Thanks for the heads up on the Home Depo $229 cement mixer. Incoming.

Is there any advantage to the black vs gray Hundo case guage ?

I've only used the raw aluminum one. Simple is good.

I have no basis for this, but anodized *seems* like something that could chip if abused or maybe have slightly different tolerances. Don't really know much about it.

H&KFanNC
04-05-2017, 03:14 PM
You guys convinced me to buy the FART. And the bulk citrus acid. I'm waiting on the dryer. Used the oven for my first large batch of brass. Cleaning turned out OK but it seemed to darken in the oven a bit. Gonna retumble half the batch and redry. See if the results are the same.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/95a63297c657d7005243303ad0c054d2.jpg


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GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 03:25 PM
You guys convinced me to buy the FART. And the bulk citrus acid. I'm waiting on the dryer. Used the oven for my first large batch of brass. Cleaning turned out OK but it seemed to darken in the oven a bit. Gonna retumble half the batch and redry. See if the results are the same.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170405/95a63297c657d7005243303ad0c054d2.jpg

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What temp / how long? I would think 180 or well less would be plenty....

H&KFanNC
04-05-2017, 08:11 PM
I did 175, lowest the stove went, for 60 min.

Recipe was Lemonshine and AA Wash n Wax. Used a heaping teaspoon of the LS and a scientifically measured "glub" of the Wash N Wax.

I rewashed about half in the same recipe and I'm air drying. Going to compare colors when I get home from work tomorrow.


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mmc45414
04-05-2017, 08:36 PM
Used the oven for my first large batch of brass. Cleaning turned out OK but it seemed to darken in the oven a bit. Gonna retumble half the batch and redry.
Back when I USED to wet tumble I didn't have a dryer and would just lay them flat for a few days. Last night, as I posted, I tumbled a batch of 45. I just laid them on that towel on the basement floor. This morning I popped a primer and they were still wet. This evening I popped a primer and they looked pretty darn dry. I don't need to load these until Sunday morning.

Obviously local matters, this is in southern Ohio and it is not hot enough to be running the AC yet.


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H&KFanNC
04-05-2017, 09:16 PM
I'm in NC, with 43% humidity in the house at the moment.

I don't need to use the brass anytime soon. This is a test batch.


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GuanoLoco
04-05-2017, 09:19 PM
I did 175, lowest the stove went, for 60 min.

Recipe was Lemonshine and AA Wash n Wax. Used a heaping teaspoon of the LS and a scientifically measured "glub" of the Wash N Wax.

I rewashed about half in the same recipe and I'm air drying. Going to compare colors when I get home from work tomorrow.


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Might not be enough air circulation - hot moist brass oxidizes quickly.

jeep45238
04-05-2017, 10:16 PM
Might not be enough air circulation - hot moist brass oxidizes quickly.

That was my problem with my first drying attempt, in a toaster oven w/ a fan. Problem was the closed door, high or low temp still had the issue.


Just got my first batch out of the FA brass dryer (pretty sure it's a relabeled Nesco food dehydrator, although there's slight differences in the handle design). Totally different - look brand freaking new on the outside. Inside is 'meh', but who cares. That part doesn't touch most of my dies or the case gauge.

mmc45414
04-06-2017, 06:32 PM
Got some AA, and this is the first batch with the bulk citric acid, and I think they (top, red towel) are even brighter.
15414
The difference is even more so in person.

Will have to see if they seem to size smoother when they dry.

jeep45238
04-06-2017, 07:53 PM
I did a batch without any lemishine/citric acid and one with, both with wash n wax - without the c.a. the dirt clung to the cases. The combo is like brand new brass. A sprinkle or two of shine and a thin 1-2 sec pour of soap is all that's needed.


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GuanoLoco
04-06-2017, 10:45 PM
Try it with a pre-wash/rinse cycle if it's not too much of a pain.

jeep45238
04-07-2017, 01:20 AM
Try it with a pre-wash/rinse cycle if it's not too much of a pain.

I'll do a batch tonight for water only before I get back to sleep, and will run it normal tomorrow after I get up.

punkey71
11-22-2017, 06:35 PM
Necro, but the FART is $129 on Amazon right now.

Hadn’t seen it that cheap before.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00HTN4R6O/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8

Tom or LL, please “PF Smile“ the link if it isn’t already.


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