Suarez Internations Remington 870 Stakeout

[Serpico1985]

I don't get excited about shotguns. I don't even particularly like shotguns but this one has my interest up.

For those of you who are more in the know than me, do you have any comments on this particular weapon?

Suarez International Stakeout (https://suarezinternational.com/remington-870-stakeout-12-gauge-tier-one/)

Thanks

From website:
http://i64.tinypic.com/29gif07.jpg

[farscott]

My personal experience has been that without a buttstock and without a rear sight, I cannot repeatedly hit the target with a shotgun. I rather have a standard-stocked gun, even if I have to pay the NFA tax.

That looks like more toy than tool.

[vandal]

I think that begs the question(s) "What's the target, and what's the distance"? That shotgun is obviously not for shooting skeet or deer hunting.


My personal experience has been that without a buttstock and without a rear sight, I cannot repeatedly hit the target with a shotgun. I rather have a standard-stocked gun, even if I have to pay the NFA tax.

That looks like more toy than tool.

[farscott]

I think that begs the question(s) "What's the target, and what's the distance"? That shotgun is obviously not for shooting skeet or deer hunting.

Tried seven yards with a longer-barreled gun with a similar stock on a pattern board, and the outcome was not favorable. I can group a lot better weak-hand at the same distance with a pistol than I was able to with that shotgun. Practice to get better was going to be hard on the wrists and on the wallet.

[Cookie Monster]

Pretty useless. A very specialized concealed personal protection role, maybe?

Suarez is making stuff to sell to people and hence make some money. We first world folks (myself included) buy a lot of stuff that is pretty useless.

[Padwan]

Before Scattergun Technologies was bought by Wilson Combat, they made a name modifiying 870s to look like that. It was called the Witness Protection model and to be fair, I remember a mid-80s news photo of two Federal Marshals escorting an arrested high-profile cult leader. Not quite sure if SGT had a government contract and what the Marshal's shotgun program was like.

I've never tried one configured that way, but I did use a 14" 870P with a Speedfeed youth stock for almost five years. Handiest shotgun I ever worked with, and one I still wish I had today.

[TGS]

Pistol grip shotguns have pretty much been relegated to door breaching.

To use one as a weapon has been proven to be pretty bogus. Bad ideas from the 80s are best left in the 80s.

If you want a pistol grip shotgun for no reason other than "just because"......IMO......you need a Lupara. :)

[SeriousStudent]

I have fired a shitgun configured like that.

And yes, I spelled it correctly. I could not hit shit with it.

I greatly prefer my 12.5" 870 SBS. If you want to go short, do it right and spend the money on an SBS.

This is definitely not me, but that is my shotgun. That's Dagga Boy (Darryl Bolke) holding the shotgun, and the excellent pic is from Voodoo Man. The firearm in question is enormously fun, and stupid-accurate with Brenneke slugs.

15010

[Norville]

I had an 18" PGO 870 years ago. I put a stock back on it and still have it that way. It was fun to shoot but hard to hit beyond a few yards.

I still want one for the fun of it, but I too will probably get the Mossberg version.

[Sigfan26]

It isn't for everyone. The action is smooth as glass on the stakeout.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wondering Beard]

A friend had one of those sometimes back in the early oos and I coveted it, because ... well it was back then. Bringing it up to eye level, I had little difficulty getting good hits out to 15 yards or so with 00 Buck. I knew one guy who could shoot skeet pretty well with one as well.

Because it was 870 based (maybe it applies to Mossberg's too, I just don't know), it would become sort of a semi auto when shot one handed as inertia overcame the slide. It's probably lousy for the mechanism but you wouldn't want to shoot more than three rounds that way before you started thinking you had bad tennis elbow.

I might just pick one up for old time sakes.

[GJM]

There is a $200 accessory that really improves these.

15022

[TiroFijo]

I'm a decent shot with lots of guns, but I can't hit shit with a pistol grip shotgun, specially in any kind of dynamic style of shooting, and at ranges > 8 yds or so.
And while I'm sure somebody somewhere can do it, I bet it's a VERY small percentage of shooters.

Not for me.

[Willard]

I have fired a shitgun configured like that.

And yes, I spelled it correctly. I could not hit shit with it.

I greatly prefer my 12.5" 870 SBS. If you want to go short, do it right and spend the money on an SBS.

This is definitely not me, but that is my shotgun. That's Dagga Boy (Darryl Bolke) holding the shotgun, and the excellent pic is from Voodoo Man. The firearm in question is enormously fun, and stupid-accurate with Brenneke slugs.

15010

Serious, you mind posting the particulars on that 870? Some I recognize, some not so much. Thanks.

[Bigghoss]

The way the strap is attached on that Stakeout looks brutal on the support hand. I too will probably get a Shockwave just for shits and giggles.

[SeriousStudent]

Serious, you mind posting the particulars on that 870? Some I recognize, some not so much. Thanks.

Not a problem. Tomorrow I will take pictures from several angles, and post them with an explanation.

[El Cid]

Some guns are just cool/fun to own and shoot. As long as folks understand that, spend money however they want.

I will confess there were times when I was doing a lot of vehicle surveillance in some sporty neighborhoods that I would have liked a Serbu to leave in my lap in case someone caught me off guard and got too close.

[Hambo]

Bad ideas from the 80s are best left in the 80s.

Don't be a hater. The '80s were cooler than you think. ;)

I won't be buying a Suarez 870, but there is a 590 Shockwave in my future. When I get tired of the PG, I'll send in the forms and make it a SBS.

[Willard]

Not a problem. Tomorrow I will take pictures from several angles, and post them with an explanation.

Mucho Gracias

[Serpico1985]

Thanks for all the comments. The appeal has worn off.

[5pins]

http://brainsauce.net/wp-content/uploads/83883493.gif

[Wondering Beard]

http://brainsauce.net/wp-content/uploads/83883493.gif

What happens when you get your instruction from ... well, I have no idea what kind of person can be certified as an instructor and let that happen.

[BillSWPA]

http://brainsauce.net/wp-content/uploads/83883493.gif

Ouch!

At least the unintended orthodontics happened on the range and not when the gun was needed for a serious purpose.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Drang]

There is a $200 accessory that really improves these.

15022

Illegal in WA, alas.

[serialsolver]

I wanted a coach gun.

Saw the shockwave.

Wanted the shockwave.

Thought about the shockwave.

Back to wanting a coach gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Poconnor]

I bought a PGO 870 18" barrel and put a raptor grip on. I haven't really played with it but I consider it a range toy; not for serious work. I do agree with Suarez's description- it's a short range battle axe. As in in too close.
I really wish the ATF would drop the SBS, SBR and supressors. I would be on a 12" and a 14" 870 with a short stock like a fat kid on free donuts

[TDA]

Having seen the Clint Smith shockwave video as well as the Suarez stakeout one, I'm curious. How substantial an improvement is the Raptor style setup over the crappy 90 degree PG unit I know and dislike?

Being completely honest, I don't want it because I have some practical need for such a thing, it's on the list with that howdah pistol from DGW.

[Sigfan26]

Having seen the Clint Smith shockwave video as well as the Suarez stakeout one, I'm curious. How substantial an improvement is the Raptor style setup over the crappy 90 degree PG unit I know and dislike?

Being completely honest, I don't want it because I have some practical need for such a thing, it's on the list with that howdah pistol from DGW.

It is much better. Instead of straight back, it rolls more back and down. It also doesn't give the severe pain in my palm and wrist after firing 5 shots like the 90 degree grips have in the past. Still, it's not a gun I would run anything standard pressure through it. Low recoil is the best thing for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rex G]

It is much better. Instead of straight back, it rolls more back and down. It also doesn't give the severe pain in my palm and wrist after firing 5 shots like the 90 degree grips have in the past. Still, it's not a gun I would run anything standard pressure through it. Low recoil is the best thing for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This. The more-vertical the grip, the more recoil is slammed into the web of the hand.

[NerdAlert]

Having seen the Clint Smith shockwave video as well as the Suarez stakeout one, I'm curious. How substantial an improvement is the Raptor style setup over the crappy 90 degree PG unit I know and dislike?

If you have access to a shotgun with a traditional shoulder stock without a pistol grip, try hip firing that. It might be slightly heavier but it will give you an idea. Full power buckshot is a handful, like I imagine any full power defensive/duty load would be. I agree with the above posters that the best accessory for serious work with one of these short barrel raptor grip guns is a tax stamp and a magpul stock. Without that it's just for fun, which is ok too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BobLoblaw]

I wanted a coach gun.

Saw the shockwave.

Wanted the shockwave.

Thought about the shockwave.

Back to wanting a coach gun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always pictured you as more of a louis vuitton fan but the heart wants what the heart wants.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/9ae219b9f6e66b4f0e4f620454d19e1f/tumblr_n7f2hxi1DS1txnow0o1_1280.jpg

[serialsolver]

I always pictured you as more of a louis vuitton fan but the heart wants what the heart wants.

https://68.media.tumblr.com/9ae219b9f6e66b4f0e4f620454d19e1f/tumblr_n7f2hxi1DS1txnow0o1_1280.jpg

I'm more of a Bob Valdez kind of guy.

"Something for the rabbits"
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt0067921/mediaviewer/rm677296896

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BobLoblaw]

I'm more of a Bob Valdez kind of guy.

"Something for the rabbits"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Forgot my smiley. I actually had to look up Bob Valdez as that movie came out 16 years before I existed.

[Wondering Beard]

This. The more-vertical the grip, the more recoil is slammed into the web of the hand.

+1

That bird's head grip makes the kick a lot more comfortable.

[Bigghoss]

I have a Speed Feed birds head grip exactly like the current raptor one. The birds head style is much more comfortable to shoot but it still ended up in a box with various other bits that don't get used, but mainly for practicality's sake. Now that I know about the legal status of these types of firearms I'm tempted to buy a PGO Mossberg 500 20ga and put the grip on and chop down an old beater barrel I have. Wished I had known about it 10 years ago when I bubba'd a nice 20ga bantam just to have something to put it on.

[SeriousStudent]

Serious, you mind posting the particulars on that 870? Some I recognize, some not so much. Thanks.

As requested:

15330

15331

My wee little blaster started life as a 1982 Remington 870 Wingmaster. I filed a Form 1, and after receiving my stamp had the vent rib barrel trimmed down to 12.5 inches. I had a X\S tritium Big Dot sight mounted on the front of the rib, and had a Mesa Tactical Picatinny rail mounted on the receiver. That required it to be drilled and tapped. The screws also had to be shortened, so they would not interfere with the bolt.

The optic is a spare Aimpoint H-1 4 MOA dot. It's currently wearing a QD lever on the factory mount. I like that size dot on this weapon, and feel it's perfect for the distances and ammo used.

The ammo carrier is a Vang Comp model. I like it because you do not have to worry about adhesive melting off the shotgun during long training sessions. That's something I have watched happen with other people.

The magazine spring is a Wolff, as are all the mag springs in the rest of my 870's. The follower is a Vang Comp stainless steel model. I like it because it has a small hole in the center, which can be detected by touch. I load my shotgun entirely by feel, so it's important that I not have to look at it to see if the mag tube is empty. I can do that in the dark, with gloves, etc.

The safety is a Vang Comp Big Dome. I can easily put the weapon on safe with my thumb, and take it off safe with the knuckle of my trigger finger. I am an absolute firm believer in using a shotgun safety, especially with an SBS. With that shorter barrel length, it's extremely easy to inadvertently cover someone with a muzzle. I have seen what an ND with 00 buck does at close range. All my 870's have that safety for that reason. I treat it just like I would on a carbine - weapon on target, shoot if needed, weapon comes off target and safety goes on.

The light is one of the newer Surefire DSF 870 models. I prefer it and the original Surefire with the "Laser Products" logo, run with a Malkoff 325-lumen LED. Gene makes awesome LED's, a great combo of spill and throw with no dead spots. I have one of the "second generation" lights on a 870 Police Magnum, and do not like it as much due to hand placement issues.

The mag tube extension is a Wilson Combat +1. It allows me to run the gun with 5 in the tube, and push a slug in without doing a lot of extra manipulation that a traditional "select slug" drill requires. It also serves to protect the light from a lot of powder residue. I can also remove the light and the mage extension, and make the shotgun even more compact if I had to. I have only done that a couple of times to test balance, as I believe that positive ID with a light is an absolute requirement. (See Claude Werner's "Negative Outcomes").

Being an older Wingmaster, it cycles very smoothly, and is a pleasure to shoot. From a sandbag, it will clover-leaf three Brenneke slugs at 25 yards. At 50 yards, they can be covered by a fist (or a B-8 repair center target...where have I heard that before...)

I did replace the Wingmaster trigger assembly with a new set of Police Magnum guts from Brownells. I also made sure the rivets were well staked.

I added a Magpul sling loop, and a Magpul stock with a slightly higher riser to get a perfect cheek weld. The length of pull is right at 12", and the overall length is a hair under 32". When carried at a low ready, it does not protrude any more than a Glock 17.

The sling is a Blue Force Gear single point. I run BFG slings on all my long guns. This is the only weapon I have with a single point. It's a dedicated HD gun, that runs either Brenneke slugs or Federal #1 Flite Control Buck, and does so very well.

I hope that helps. If I can be of any further assistance, please ask.

[Willard]

As requested:

SNIP.

Gracias Serious! Great rundown. Gave me some good ideas to work with.

[Lester Polfus]

Now that I know about the legal status of these types of firearms I'm tempted to buy a PGO Mossberg 500 20ga and put the grip on and chop down an old beater barrel I have. Wished I had known about it 10 years ago when I bubba'd a nice 20ga bantam just to have something to put it on.

I hesitate to post this, not being an expert on the NFA, but does it work that way, or does the gun have to leave the factory in this configuration to be a "firearm" and not one of the other categories?

ETA: Nevermind. It looks like if you buy the PGO version, that didn't come from the factory wtih a stock, you are good.

[SeriousStudent]

Gracias Serious! Great rundown. Gave me some good ideas to work with.

Glad to be of assistance. Good luck with yours.

[RevM]

Having seen the Clint Smith shockwave video as well as the Suarez stakeout one, I'm curious. How substantial an improvement is the Raptor style setup over the crappy 90 degree PG unit I know and dislike?

Being completely honest, I don't want it because I have some practical need for such a thing, it's on the list with that howdah pistol from DGW.
Yuge difference! I had an opportunity to put a few rounds through a Suarez Stakeout at the shotgun course I took a couple of months ago. It is a joy to shoot. The internal treatments they do to it make it run slick as snot. The rest of the mods they do are nice but are easily duplicated.

I picked up the new Remington Tac-14 and did the following to it:
Wilson Combat +1
Vang Comp safety
Volquartsen extractor
Grovtec limited rotation QD insert in the end of the Shockwave grip
Magpul MS1 sling

Basically I've done everything to it that Suarez does except for the internal surface treatment, the barrel porting, and the epoxy grip modifications.

I've put everything from birdshot to full power 00 Buck to slugs through it so far. 3" Magnum turkey rounds will be tried on the next range trip.

Despite what some others have said, it's easy to get hits with. What you need to know is that you do need to use the sights, not shoot it from the hip. My steel target is an 8" gong ... I was able to ring it consistently from distances out to about 40 yards (I didn't try any farther).

This may be the most fun gun in my safe. It's definitely got a place as a truck gun especially if you need to frequent any urban areas where you may encounter protesters that may turn into terrorists.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/66f20c03183e5e5aa7111e3ce698be9e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/fbe6ce7a43d84fb39655bf07c24188fa.jpg

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk