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Padwan
03-20-2017, 03:19 AM
I resumed more regular practice some months ago. I had a few cases of ammo in storage before my "sabbatical" but these won't last me beyond a few more months. The SO has also found time to shoot so our joint consumption is close to 600 rounds a week.

I could just reorder factory or reman ammo, but I'm thinking reloading might be a better way to maintain availability and control cost. 9mm is all we use these days

Which Dillon presses should I consider? They have several choices and I don't quite know which would match my needs?

Also, does a high humidity environment affect the quality of reloads? I live close to the beach and the air here is both humid and salty. Any suggestions how to minimize humidity in a reloading room?

#Dillon650 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Dillon650)

#Dillon550 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Dillon550)

#Dillon1050 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Dillon1050)

Luke
03-20-2017, 06:25 AM
650 with a case feeder, get the bullet feeder too if you can swing it.

GuanoLoco
03-20-2017, 06:59 AM
Take your expected volume, then double it. When ammo is cheaper you just shot more!

550 at the least, 650 better and more upgradable. I started with a 550 and upgraded straight to a 1050. At this point I would say to stretch as far as you can on the press.

Humidity and especially salt will affect the rustiness of your press and dies!!! Rusty reloading equipment is sadness. I suggest a dehumidifier with a drain and frequent use of lubricants designed for corroion resistance. Hornady Oneshot cleaner/lube on all dies at the very least. Eezox is a little smelly but excellent protectant.

Peally
03-20-2017, 08:21 AM
It also largely depends on your tolerance for reloading.

GuanoLoco
03-20-2017, 08:25 AM
My tolerance for reloading never improved over time, if anything, it was the exact opposite.

Peally
03-20-2017, 08:29 AM
Mine either, it's pure work and burned free time to me. Might as well spring for the best you can reasonably afford unless it's a side hobby.

JCS
03-20-2017, 08:30 AM
I wouldn't want to do 600 rounds per week on a 550b.

If you have a mentor that can help you a 650 is a good choice but if you're jumping right in alone I couldn't imagine learning on a 650. I recently upgraded to a 550b from a turret and it was still intimidating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peally
03-20-2017, 08:32 AM
I started from knowing absolutely nothing about reloading to going with a 650. The learning curve is a lot lower than you think, it's just a case of putting it together and reading through the well-written setup instructions.

Trigger
03-20-2017, 08:49 AM
Dillon 550.

Worst case you outgrow it. Then you either keep it and buy bigger, or sell it and buy bigger. Dillons hold their value, so you might be out $50-100 versus what you paid in a resale.

I keep a 550 to do the small-volume rifle reloading, and do the 9mm and 223 hi-volume stuff on a 1050.

Padwan
03-20-2017, 08:51 AM
The 650 differs from the 550 in that it will take the case and bullet feeders, as well as auto-advance with each stroke of the handle? Did I get that right?

Money isn't a significant limiting factor. I've sold most everything I had that wasn't a 9mm to plough back into shooting expenses, so I do have some funds to spare. I would prefer to just "cry once" and get the most service I can out of the machine.

Apart from the press and the dies, I'm told I need a case tumbler, scale, caliper, case lube, primer tubes and a filling machine if I can afford it. Is there anything else that should be on the list?

Loading manuals were also recommended as must-haves. As well as a sturdy workbench.

Peally
03-20-2017, 08:55 AM
Correct. 650 has more bells and whistles. Personally I would never use a 550 myself, but I have a low tolerance for spending time reloading. Others have used them to great effect.

GuanoLoco
03-20-2017, 09:11 AM
The 650 differs from the 550 in that it will take the case and bullet feeders, as well as auto-advance with each stroke of the handle? Did I get that right?

Money isn't a significant limiting factor. I've sold most everything I had that wasn't a 9mm to plough back into shooting expenses, so I do have some funds to spare. I would prefer to just "cry once" and get the most service I can out of the machine.

Apart from the press and the dies, I'm told I need a case tumbler, scale, caliper, case lube, primer tubes and a filling machine if I can afford it. Is there anything else that should be on the list?

Loading manuals were also recommended as must-haves. As well as a sturdy workbench.

I'd get a Mr. Bullet Feeder before a Primer Filling machine, although the latter is handy.

Decide on wet vs. dry processing for brass. That Franklin rotary wet tumbler is a sweet deal + no dust. A dehydrator makes life a lot simpler.

Inexpensive analog calipers work great. Best scale you can afford and some check weights if you aren't the trusting sort. I like the GemPro 250. Dillon OneShot for pistol case lube.

On the 650 you will eventually dread crimped primer pockets and seating un the upstroke. When that day comes look at the 1050.

JV_
03-20-2017, 09:23 AM
You're going to invest a lot of money now, to save money in the future, but it's going to cost you time and possibly some frustration. Just make sure the desire is really there, and will be there a year from now. If it's not, buying a pallet of ammo may be a better option.

Luke
03-20-2017, 09:25 AM
650
Case feeder
Bullet feeder
Set of calipers
Small scale
Cheap bullet puller*
Vibra prime filler
1 primer tube
Dillon owners manual
Lots of consumables

Wet brass tumbler with SS media
Lemishine cleaner
Brass dryer
Sorting trays

* is you really don't have to have it but it is handy every once in a while.


Go buy all that and a lot of bullets and primers and prima V offline and get to work.

Padwan
03-20-2017, 12:22 PM
Thanks for the tips. I'll work on this later in the year. I need to see which part of the house may be ideal for setting up a reloading station. Worst case is we build a shack in the back of the property so that we don't keep volatiles and combustibles inside the residence.

Luke
03-20-2017, 12:57 PM
I would highly recommend a climate controlled location for loading. Nothing wrong with cleaning and processing brass outside but you wanna be indoors loading. A bunch of primers and gun powder shouldn't be an issue unless you have like a bazillion pounds

Jim Watson
03-20-2017, 03:44 PM
The nice thing about learning to load on a Dillon progressive is that you can run one round through at a time until you understand what each stage is doing. It will not spill powder or throw primers around from unoccupied stations. All you will have to do when you feel capable of going full progressive is to readjust the powder measure to take into account the difference in settling of the powder with different vibration.

I have owned and used all the Dillons EXCEPT the 650. (Also the old CH Autochamp and a MEC 650 shotshell progressive.)
When I was ready to upgrade from SDB, I studied the field and bought a Super 1050 instead of a 650.
I calculated that it took me 6 years to amortize the cost, but I almost giggle every time a round falls in the hopper.
The primer pocket swage and primer seating to a positive stop are worth the money to me.

I later bought a 550 for calibers other than .45 ACP so I would not have to face the daunting task of caliber conversion on the 1050.
I shoot so much 9mm now that I am considering buying another 1050 instead of a new gun this year.

NETim
03-20-2017, 03:53 PM
I loaded enough pistol caliber stuff on a single stage to know that I didn't want to do that anymore. Went to an SDB. Then to a 650.

There are times I think I shoulda went 1050, but the 650 suffices.

BN
03-20-2017, 05:40 PM
My vote is for a 1050. Like Jim said, you can load one round at a time while learning.

I started with a single stage, then a turret type, then a 550 and finally a 1050. If all you are loading is 9mm, leave the 1050 set up and that 600 rounds a week practice ammo will take you about 30 or 40 minutes. Some days I will go in and load 200 rounds in 10 minutes. It's just so easy to load with the 1050. I admit, I've never used a 650, but that primer swage and adjustable primer seating on the down stroke is fantastic. :) I kept my 550 and use it for low quantity ammo.

JV_
03-20-2017, 05:54 PM
If you choose to go progressive, I would recommend completely clearing out the stations if you have a jam or an issue. Thinking you can fix it, while keeping partially loaded rounds properly indexed, is how rounds get double charged.

You really need to know your press well to do that safely.

Jim Watson
03-20-2017, 06:31 PM
Being retired, I can load any time I want to.
I am not one of these guys who brags about how many cases of ammo he loaded last night, my usual schedule is to load enough to replace what I shot the last time out and enough for what I plan to shoot the next time out. Plus idle moments over the winter, which has left me with enough on hand for several months of IDPA.

GuanoLoco
03-20-2017, 07:12 PM
Being retired, I can load any time I want to.
I am not one of these guys who brags about how many cases of ammo he loaded last night, my usual schedule is to load enough to replace what I shot the last time out and enough for what I plan to shoot the next time out. Plus idle moments over the winter, which has left me with enough on hand for several months of IDPA.

It can be most satisfying. I'm still in the afterglow from a productivity breakthough loading session last week.

Flintsky
03-20-2017, 07:18 PM
I can't afford to shoot 600rds a week, so I am perfectly content with a 550 and the volume it gives me. The simplicity of it is nice, and caliber changes are a breeze between other handgun calibers and rifle. If I factor in the time it takes me to load primer tubes, lube cases, load up 100rds, then clean the lube off the cases it takes me about 15-17min for handgun. Yeah, I'm weird that I prefer to load handgun with lubed cases.....but it makes the whole operation smoother, easier, and I have noticed the tolerances on the reloaded rounds are tighter. At a nice relaxed pace, I will load 300rds of handgun in 1 hour which includes loading up ammo boxes, and cleaning/preping my equipment for next time. If your purpose to manufacture high volumes of one caliber, than it makes sense to go big and get the 650, or the 1050.

As for rust protection, I live in Louisiana so it is a must. I have a dehumidifier running for an hour every 2 hours to keep my small reloading room at an ideal level, and I just run a CLP coated gun patch over the steel areas that I have noticed can be a problem. Other steel areas that don't get touched very much, I run a Tuf-Cloth over them(like the dies) to keep any condensation from being a problem. Either way, the most important thing you can do is to seal off a room from the elements, and run that dehumidifier. That will also preserve your components.

Luke
03-20-2017, 08:25 PM
650 is $100 more than the 550 and just as easy to swap calibers (same exact process basically) and has less steps/less user inputs needed.

Matt O
03-20-2017, 08:30 PM
650 is $100 more than the 550 and just as easy to swap calibers (same exact process basically) and has less steps/less user inputs needed.

I wish I knew this back when I bought my 550 =\

Flintsky
03-20-2017, 08:36 PM
650 is $100 more than the 550 and just as easy to swap calibers (same exact process basically) and has less steps/less user inputs needed.

Yeah, the the speed advantage isn't really there until you add the case feeder at the least which is another couple of hundred. Then you need a conversion kit for the case feeder if you want to go from 9mm to .45acp.....etc. Then if you want to go from 9mm to .223, it isn't a piece of cake. It takes me about 2 min to go from 9mm to .223 on a 550.

At this point if I decided that I needed the speed of faster system I would just go with a 1050 which has the swager built in. I appreciate the versatility and simplicity of the 550 and I would keep it for low volume and rifle calibers if I ever decided to go big with the 1050.

Flintsky
03-20-2017, 08:37 PM
I wish I knew this back when I bought my 550 =\


There's no real advantage until you add on the case feeder which is another couple of hundred dollars.

GuanoLoco
03-20-2017, 08:39 PM
Yeah, the the speed advantage isn't really there until you add the case feeder at the least which is another couple of hundred. Then you need a conversion kit for the case feeder if you want to go from 9mm to .45acp.....etc. Then if you want to go from 9mm to .223, it isn't a piece of cake. It takes me about 2 min to go from 9mm to .223 on a 550.

At this point if I decided that I needed the speed of faster system I would just go with a 1050 which has the swager built in. I appreciate the versatility and simplicity of the 550 and I would keep it for low volume and rifle calibers if I ever decided to go big with the 1050.

But at least you have more upgrade options with the 650. The case feeder helps lots, and the extra station makes the bullet feeder easier without having to go with a combined seating/crimp die.

I periodically consider upgrading my 550 for multiple mixed calibers in low volume to a 650, but still haven't convinced myself to do it.

Matt O
03-20-2017, 09:02 PM
There's no real advantage until you add on the case feeder which is another couple of hundred dollars.

True, but you've got the option of going the case/bullet feeder route which seems to truly widen the distance between the 550 and 650 (yes in terms of cost) but also output.

Sal Picante
03-21-2017, 01:03 AM
650 is easier to setup automation in the long run with a bullet feeder and a Mark7 robot. You might never think you're going to get there, but you really never know. I never thought I'd have an automated 1050 and a USPSA GM card...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqujoTaZJ1s

That said, sometimes you can find used 550's on Ebay for cheap - I bought mine for $350 with a bunch of dies off an old guy that was moving... You can also mount a case feeder and bullet feed on a 550 and use a seat/crimp combo die in station 4. Now, you just have to pull the handle and index the plate. Poor man's automation, LOL. (I may just do this at some point...)

I love the 550 - it is a simple, reliable, do-all press, but it is outshined by its "higher volume" brothers.

JCS
03-21-2017, 07:56 AM
If you choose to go progressive, I would recommend completely clearing out the stations if you have a jam or an issue. Thinking you can fix it, while keeping partially loaded rounds properly indexed, is how rounds get double charged.

You really need to know your press well to do that safely.

This^^^^ That was one of my biggest hurdles when switching to a progressive. Just play it safe.

Does anyone else load in a non climate controlled room? I don't have any other places to do it. I was originally concerned about humidity affecting the powder and I posed the question on another forum and people said they just leave it setup and don't empty the powder.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Peally
03-21-2017, 07:58 AM
I don't have A/C on the second floor where my press is, but no issues. Still counts as climate controlled though, it's warmer but it's not exposed to the elements.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 08:54 AM
I wish I knew this back when I bought my 550 =\

The reality is you could probably sell the 550 on eBay for close to what you paid for it.

JV_
03-21-2017, 09:02 AM
There are plenty of local buyers in his area that would snatch it up too. Then he can avoid PP fees and the hassle of shipping.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 09:35 AM
Something that I think needs consideration is your basic mechanical aptitude. It is really not hard but everybody is not the same. Also if you are shooting that actively there has to be somebody around that could hold your hand a little.

I would always tend to suggest people get a single stage press because it would really give you an understanding of the process and you will probably want one anyway. But really a 550 is just as simple as a single stage so that is really easy. I think the fact that it DOESNT index makes it simple, but it also makes it POSSIBLE to double charge.

600 rounds a week would be a lot on a 550, but selling a slightly used 550 is like selling a Honda Civic that is in good shape. But as others have mentioned, if you expect to reload anything else having a 9mm setup that never gets disturbed is nicely complemented by a 550.

If you are comfortable starting with something indexed the 650 sure has a lot of value, but you said the investment is not a problem and you will never wish you had if you just do.

taadski
03-21-2017, 09:57 AM
I learned to reload on a 650 without anybody looking over my shoulder. And I'm not a particularly mechanically apt fellow. I'm REALLY glad I went that route. I get to watch a buddy loading on a 550 some and there is NO COMPARISON re productivity. I do run a case feeder though.

I'm currently pining for a 1050, but I'll get a bullet feeder for this press first. It's on my short list.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 10:40 AM
Something that I think needs consideration is your basic mechanical aptitude.


I learned to reload on a 650 without anybody looking over my shoulder. And I'm not a particularly mechanically apt fellow. I'm REALLY glad I went that route.

I reread my post and think it could come off as condescending. Just want to clarify that there is no reason to not start off with a indexing press, just that if a person wants to get their feet wet there are transition paths.

Also, I can't stand condescending butt holes on the internet, so I try not to be one... :)

taadski
03-21-2017, 10:43 AM
I reread my post and think it could come off as condescending. Just want to clarify that there is no reason to not start off with a indexing press, just that if a person wants to get their feet wet there are transition paths.

Also, I can't stand condescending butt holes on the internet, so I try not to be one... :)


I didn't, at all, take it that way, FWIW.

LittleLebowski
03-21-2017, 12:03 PM
There are plenty of local buyers in his area that would snatch it up too. Then he can avoid PP fees and the hassle of shipping.

And as previously mentioned, Dillons hold their resale value better than Toyota Tacomas :cool:

Matt O
03-21-2017, 12:05 PM
There are plenty of local buyers in his area that would snatch it up too. Then he can avoid PP fees and the hassle of shipping.

Yes, this would be the preferred option. I'll definitely be contemplating this later this year after the family stops expanding.

taadski
03-21-2017, 01:31 PM
And as previously mentioned, Dillons hold their resale value better than Toyota Tacomas :cool:

Let's not get crazy now. :p

hiro
03-21-2017, 01:48 PM
I'm not in a position to set up a reloading station at home, small rented apartment and no access to a man cave...

For the future tho, looking at the Mk7 I get serious gear lust...

I can see myself enjoying reloading, I know that sounds weird, but I would rather start with a simple base and expand it.

Is there any reason to not start with a 650 and then add all the extras later? Will it save money to buy it all in one hit (and/or just get the 1050 in the first place?) or are there hinderances in the upgrade path if it's done in stages?

Sal Picante
03-21-2017, 03:38 PM
I'm not in a position to set up a reloading station at home, small rented apartment and no access to a man cave...

For the future tho, looking at the Mk7 I get serious gear lust...

I can see myself enjoying reloading, I know that sounds weird, but I would rather start with a simple base and expand it.

Is there any reason to not start with a 650 and then add all the extras later? Will it save money to buy it all in one hit (and/or just get the 1050 in the first place?) or are there hinderances in the upgrade path if it's done in stages?

Reloading is kinda fun, but it becomes a chore, really... Keeping the beast fed is a lot of work.

They're different presses. The 1050 is easier to automate in some ways than a 650, but also slightly more complicated to get "dialed-in". I like the priming system of the 1050 way way way more than the 650, but that's just me. I also think the toolhead design is more robust on the 1050. Lastly, swaging cases is a big plus if you're using a lot of NATO brass.

That said, an automated machine doesn't exactly lend itself to "tweaking" - it is for this reason that a simpler press can be a big help. I wouldn't want to start off with an automated 1050 and "debug" the system. Seriously not fun debugging even when you KNOW what you're doing.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 04:53 PM
I didn't, at all, take it that way, FWIW.

I like to err on the side of caution. I am still kinda new here and have been enjoying the relatively low dickhead ratio compared to the rest of the dang ol internet.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 04:59 PM
Yeah, the the speed advantage isn't really there until you add the case feeder at the least which is another couple of hundred. Then you need a conversion kit for the case feeder if you want to go from 9mm to .45acp.....etc. Then if you want to go from 9mm to .223, it isn't a piece of cake. It takes me about 2 min to go from 9mm to .223 on a 550.

Just a point of clarification, the 650 conversions are more expensive because they INCLUDE the case feed conversion parts. At first I didn't get why they were more.

mmc45414
03-21-2017, 05:09 PM
I'm not in a position to set up a reloading station at home, small rented apartment and no access to a man cave...
When my wife and I met I was sharing a two bedroom apartment with a buddy and had a workbench in my bedroom with my Rockchucker mounted on it. My wife still reminisces about hanging her bra on it... :)


I can see myself enjoying reloading, I know that sounds weird
Some people hate it, I find it brings me a sense of accomplishment. Some people fill their basement with woodworking tools, I would rather just go buy a damn table and spend my leisure time reloading ammo!


I would rather start with a simple base and expand it. Is there any reason to not start with a 650 and then add all the extras later?
I also like to invest incrementally, and you could get a 650 without a case feeder, buy a simple scale and probably a F.A.R.T. tumbler and start loading. You will (soon) want a feeder, and all sorts of other stuff (including maybe a 1050, but I just went to a 650 after three decades of 550s) but that will be thousands and thousands of rounds downrange later.

SeriousStudent
03-21-2017, 07:17 PM
Les, I want to be you when I grow up.

Peally
03-21-2017, 07:31 PM
Fun? You're the same sickos that get a sense of accomplishment doing the dishes or mowing a lawn. You're sick :D

Exiledviking
03-21-2017, 08:03 PM
Fun? You're the same sickos that get a sense of accomplishment doing the dishes or mowing a lawn. You're sick :D
There's a vast, VAST, difference in the sense of accomplishment from reloading vs. mowing the lawn or washing dishes.

busdriver
03-21-2017, 08:25 PM
Reloading started out fun and with a sense of accomplishment. Then I realized instead of saving money, I could shoot twice as much. Then I started shooting USPSA. Then I was debating if I really wanted to shoot, cause I just couldn't pull that handle anymore. Automated 1050 was a great choice.

GuanoLoco
03-21-2017, 08:43 PM
Reloading is kinda fun, but it becomes a chore, really... Keeping the beast fed is a lot of work.

They're different presses. The 1050 is easier to automate in some ways than a 650, but also slightly more complicated to get "dialed-in". I like the priming system of the 1050 way way way more than the 650, but that's just me. I also think the toolhead design is more robust on the 1050. Lastly, swaging cases is a big plus if you're using a lot of NATO brass.

That said, an automated machine doesn't exactly lend itself to "tweaking" - it is for this reason that a simpler press can be a big help. I wouldn't want to start off with an automated 1050 and "debug" the system. Seriously not fun debugging even when you KNOW what you're doing.

Au contraire. I have made countless tweaks to my manual and automated 1050. Yes more complex, and yes more stuff to tweak. All part of the fun for me.

Example: I tweaked my 1050 and especially my processes until I could load 1000 rounds in 30 minutes with a 1050 + Mr. Bullet Feeder while pulling the lever. This aggressive goal helped me learn the machine much better and was accomplished BEFORE I bought a Mark 7.

#Dillon1050 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=Dillon1050)

luckyman
03-21-2017, 08:50 PM
There's a vast, VAST, difference in the sense of accomplishment from reloading vs. mowing the lawn or washing dishes.

Note he's not actually arguing the point that he gets a sense of accomplishment from mowing the lawn or washing dishes.

Sicko.

[emoji41]