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NickA
12-16-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm hoping to get back into reloading after a long absence and hope you guys can help me out with some basic questions. Several years ago I acquired a Dillon Square Deal B (don't laugh) practically for free, and reloaded 45 on it for a few months, then took a hiatus from shooting. At the time my buddy who sold it to me set it up and I just ran with it, wasn't at it long enough to play around with different loads or even to need to clean brass.
Now I want to dust it off and give 9mm a try to see if it's worth the effort. I've got a scale, calipers, a brass tumbler with what appears to be corn cob media, CCI small pistol primers, and a pound of Powerpistol (not married to the powder, it was on sale). Need to get the 9mm conversion kit; anything else I'm missing?
Bullets- I really like the Geco 124g ammo, so I'll probably try to get close to that load. Does bullet brand really matter that much for load data, as long as it's the same weight and general shape? For instance if I get a few hundred Winchester bullets locally to work up a load, then buy bulk from Montana Gold or whoever will the load still be OK?
Also, has anyone used the bullets from Precision Delta? Pricing looks great but there's no load data, hence the above question.
Load work up- when trying a new load, how many rounds do you load just to check function? I'm assuming start at the lowest charge, then load a few more at each level to compare function and accuracy.
Brass cleaning- what media works best, and what should I add to it? In another thread mineral spirits was mentioned, but it wasn't clear if you use it alone or with other additives.
What kind of ratio do you use for additives to media?
Is there a ratio for media to # of cases?
BTW these will be for use in a G19 and G17 if it matters.
Sorry for the wide range of questions, some of this has been touched on in other threads but I didn't want to muck them up.

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Ray Keith
12-16-2011, 11:58 AM
Also, has anyone used the bullets from Precision Delta? Pricing looks great but there's no load data, hence the above question.
Load work up- when trying a new load, how many rounds do you load just to check function? I'm assuming start at the lowest charge, then load a few more at each level to compare function and accuracy.
Brass cleaning- what media works best, and what should I add to it? In another thread mineral spirits was mentioned, but it wasn't clear if you use it alone or with other additives.
What kind of ratio do you use for additives to media?
Is there a ratio for media to # of cases?
BTW these will be for use in a G19 and G17 if it matters.
Sorry for the wide range of questions, some of this has been touched on in other threads but I didn't want to muck them up.


I loaded Precision Delta a couple of years ago. When the panic hit, they couldn't keep up and never had what I needed in stock. I tried Montana Gold and have stayed with them they have it in stock and ship quick. I thought P-D stuff was fine. I used basic load data from the manuals, nothing P-D published.

I load about 25 initially on starting charges. I have a chrono and check them. The chrono is a pain, so I generally have four or five batches of various loads to test when I get around to setting it up. I don't mess around with starting charges I always start low and work up to the FPS I need if it is for gaming. I load some hot every now and then to simulate the #'s from my carry ammo.

I use a mix of Walnut and Corn cob. For pistol cases the stuff in the pet section of China-Mart works fine for me and is a lot cheaper than the "reloading" media. Rifle brass needs finer media. I add either a capful of Nu-Finish or Flitz to the media every now and then.

I shoot Glocks...to me the gun doesn't matter. I have not had the best luck with Geco and their primer pockets. It is fast becoming one I throw out. I may have to break down and buy a swage.

Hope that helps, I am no reloading guru for sure.

JAD
12-16-2011, 12:50 PM
Comments are interspersed.


anything else I'm missing?
I think a chamber-check die is really worth having. You can chamber check in a disassembled barrel but because of the glock's limited support a die is a good investment. I would get a good reloading manual; i like hornady's.


Does bullet brand really matter that much for load data, as long as it's the same weight and general shape? not in my experience. You can consider 124 grain fmjs to be functionally equivalent, though minor differences in ogive can affect bearing surface; re-chrono if you're running very hot.


Load work up- when trying a new load, how many rounds do you load just to check if you invest in a chronograph 20 is a decent statistical sample. If you're just going by pressure signs in the case (challenging for me with glocks because lots of factory loads primer flow in their weird striker hole) then you will benefit from a larger sample, say 50.


What kind of ratio do you use for additives to media? I use a teaspoon of jeweler's rouge to two tablespoons of mineral spirits. I can generally get away with just topping up mineral spirits until the media is too dirty to use (like ten loads, and I polish the /hell/ out of my brass). Midway's brass polish also works fine; I'm just cheap.

I think you'll find sorting brass to be worthwhile with 9x19. There are huge variations between the various manufacturers.

I had a buddy who liked the geco load for his p7. He said my load based on 6.2 grains of HS6 was indistinguishable.

Keep the best records you can. Create a lot numbering system and change lots anytime something changes.

An inertial bullet puller can be useful.

Have fun and be careful.

JAD
12-16-2011, 12:52 PM
Oh, and be fussy about the taper crimp. It's hard to measure and impossible to control if you don't sort brass, but it makes a huge difference in performance.

SecondsCount
12-16-2011, 01:03 PM
Precision Delta is good stuff. I go in with friends and buy 10K at a time of the 124 FMJ and HP bullets.

rsa-otc
12-16-2011, 01:07 PM
If you have any problems with the press, talk to Dillon. They really mean lifetime NO BS warranty. It didn't matter to them that I was the second owner of the press.

Better to have a flawlessly working press than one that chokes from time to time breaking your concentration and chancing issues. If in doubt throw the round out or pull the bullet, don't chance questionable rounds. For me it's cheaper with pistol bullets just to toss the questionable round out.

NickA
12-16-2011, 02:28 PM
It sounds like between Wally World and Lowes or Home Depot I should be able to get cleaning stuff handled; that's good to know. Will stop by Lowes tonight to try and get some mineral spirits and jewelers' rouge. I've got some unexpected time off from the family so I may use it to sort and clean brass. I have a big bag full of it, mostly once fired.
I don't have a chrono, guess I'll have to wing it and check brass for now, but I plan to be extremely cautious.
The SDB definitely needs a good cleaning and lubing, have to read up on that and get to it.
Thanks for mentioning crimp pogo, also need to get up to speed on how to set that and what to look for.
Thanks for the input so far, by all means keep it coming.
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mizer67
12-16-2011, 05:59 PM
For mixed range brass, .376" is the lightest I would go on the crimp. It will jump around a bit based on the thickness of the brass. Use the sharp edge on your micrometer to check the case mouth.

To check crimp, you really need an intertial bullet puller. I like to pull a round to check the bullet after setting my crimp. You do not want to deform the bullet. A slight line on the base of the bullet is OK, but if the bullet is deformed you need to back off.

Power Pistol works well in 9mm for accuracy, but it's very very loud and has lots of muzzle flash.

JAD
12-17-2011, 01:27 PM
You will struggle least with crimp if you sort brass. Measure the case mouth wall thickness in two spots on ten samples. Crimp diameter measured 0.020" below the case mouth should be 2-3 thou under the sum of wall thickness plus bullet diameter.


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NickA
02-24-2012, 11:45 AM
Update: Finally ordered the conversion kit and got it in, and picked up some 124gr Berry’s bullets and Unique powder. The bullets I got because they were local, and the Unique because from what I understand it pretty much fills the case so a double charge will be next to impossible. Over the last few nights I got the machine converted over and started getting the settings right. Also got some brass sorted out. I ended up with about 800 pieces of Winchester, a few hundred more total of various makes (Remington, S&B, PPU, FC, etc.) and still have probably 500-1000 more pieces to clean and sort. I'll start out with the Winchester since I've got the most of it.

After some research it looks like 5.2 gr of Unique at 1.135 should be a good starting load; if that looks off for any reason please chime in.

Last night I got the powder charge dialed in and am pretty sure I have the case mouth belling set, but am having trouble getting the OAL right. Here's what I was doing, which is probably wrong, so if there’s a better way please fill me in:

Using extra brass that I only had a few of, I ran it through the powder charge, then dumped the charge on the scale to re-confirm that it’s dropping right. Then I’d seat a bullet and run the handle, pull the case and check with calipers. The problem is that some of the time the bullet will just drop almost all the way down into the case, other times it seemed to seat OK and I could get a measurement. A few times it didn’t seem to seat far enough and I’d get a longer OAL than expected, which I don’t see how that was happening. Tonight I’ll go about it more deliberately, it was getting late last night and I may have just been seeing things wrong.

So the questions: Now I'm realizing I should probably be doing this with the Winchester brass that I’ll be loading, not some other brand? Should I use a different case each time or keep adjusting the depth using the same case (not sure if running them multiple times is belling the mouth more and causing the bullets to drop down in the case)?Would it be better to leave the powder charge in the case when setting the seating depth?

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to give as much info as possible. I’m hoping to get this sorted out tonight so I can try some loads tomorrow, but that’s also assuming I can get the crimp figured out by then.
ETA: sorry for the mess of a post, tried to copy and paste and can't get it fixed on the phone.
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SecondsCount
02-24-2012, 12:06 PM
What dies are you using?

You want to flare the case mouth just enough to get the bullet started into the case. It is a fine line with plated bullets like Berrys because while too much flare can cause seating issues, not enough will cause the case to scrape the side of the bullet which will wrinkle the plating.

Also, for consistency, make sure you are making a full stroke when running the ram up and down.

jar
02-24-2012, 03:00 PM
What dies are you using?

You want to flare the case mouth just enough to get the bullet started into the case. It is a fine line with plated bullets like Berrys because while too much flare can cause seating issues, not enough will cause the case to scrape the side of the bullet which will wrinkle the plating.

Also, for consistency, make sure you are making a full stroke when running the ram up and down.

Also, when setting OAL on a progressive, always size an unsized piece of brass while doing it. It makes a noticeable difference.

NickA
02-24-2012, 04:01 PM
Also, when setting OAL on a progressive, always size an unsized piece of brass while doing it. It makes a noticeable difference.

SecondsCount and jar- thanks, I think I figured it out from your comments. The answer is.... I didn't RTFM.
I was not running the brass through the first station (decap and resize on the Dillon SDB that I'm using), so that's screwing up the mouth size at the next two stations I bet. Tonight I'll run them through the entire process, with brass in the resizer each time.
Like I said in the OP this machine came to me set up for 45 years ago, and I never had to adjust it. I wasn't picturing the whole process correctly.
Also I'll be buying bulk FMJ's down the road instead of Berry’s, they were just handy to get going with.



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