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Mr_White
03-17-2017, 09:48 AM
Week 208: FBI Bullseye Course (Modified)

Results may be posted until April 17th, 2017.

Range: 25 and 15 yards
Target: B8 repair center, download here: https://pistol-forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=281&d=1322428748
Start Position: Ready
Rounds Fired: 30

This will be an accuracy-oriented test suitable for ranges that don't allow holsters or rapid fire.

---

Kevin B., thank you once again for your contributions to the Drill of the Week!

Note from Kevin B.:
The FBI has its own target but it is dimensionally identical to a B-8.

---

Start at ready for all strings. Shooter's choice of freestyle, strong hand only, or support hand only - whatever you select, shoot that way on all strings.

At 25 yards, shoot 10 rounds to the B8. Time limit 4 minutes.

At 15 yards, shoot 5 rounds to the B8. Time limit 15 seconds.

Repeat the last string - at 15 yards, shoot 5 rounds to the B8. Time limit 15 seconds.

At 15 yards, shoot 5 rounds to the B8. Time limit is 10 seconds.

Repeat the last string - at 15 yards, shoot 5 rounds to the B8. Time limit is 10 seconds.

---

There are 300 possible points. Passing score for instructors shooting freestyle is 260. Passing score for instructors shooting strong or support hand only is 240.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Pistol used
Freestyle, strong hand only, or support hand only
Total score for all strings combined
Anything you noticed

Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

SLG
03-17-2017, 11:33 AM
SA Pro Operator.

Freestyle

298

Glock 17 Gen 4

295


I noticed that I still can't clean this damn thing.

Going back out in a minute to shoot some more.

Gio
03-17-2017, 07:32 PM
299 freestyle. 1911

Best glock score is a 294 with G26.

14918

JSGlock34
03-17-2017, 07:38 PM
Wilson Combat Protector Elite 1911 (detailed here (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22583-First-1-000-rounds-with-the-Wilson-Combat-Protector-Elite-1911-45))

Freestyle

All four hits outside of the bull were at the 25 yard line. I went way too fast on these too - really should have slowed down and taken some extra time. I found squinting a bit helped with my sight picture.

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x131/JSGlock34/IMG_3394%201_zpsuzurebzz.jpg

SLG
03-17-2017, 07:46 PM
299 freestyle. 1911

Best glock score is a 294 with G26.


Bastard.

Gio
03-17-2017, 07:52 PM
Bastard.

That was a total 1-upping. :p

I will say, this course is one of the best drills available to develop and reinforce solid shooting fundamentals for a service pistol. It doesn't do much to help you shoot faster, but it will highlight any flaws you have in trigger control, grip, and sight alignment.

SLG
03-17-2017, 08:00 PM
That was a total 1-upping. :p


I don't think I've ever shot better than a 298 on this course, though a 295 with the Glock makes me happy. One day I will clean it, but I may have to get you to shoot it for me!

Kevin B.
03-17-2017, 08:21 PM
I will say, this course is one of the best drills available to develop and reinforce solid shooting fundamentals for a service pistol. It doesn't do much to help you shoot faster, but it will highlight any flaws you have in trigger control, grip, and sight alignment.
Completely agree.

Gio
03-17-2017, 08:23 PM
I don't think I've ever shot better than a 298 on this course, though a 295 with the Glock makes me happy. One day I will clean it, but I may have to get you to shoot it for me!

The frustrating thing about that 299 was the first round I fired was the 9 ring. The next 29 were 10's... :(

Francis
03-18-2017, 01:37 PM
Clearly not in the same league as you guys...

G19 gen 4
Freestyle
244 / 241 (I think, math is hard with groups like this)


Learned from the first string at 25 that a lower hold at distance is required. Seven of the first 10 hit at the top of 7 & 8 ring. I also need to learn about ballistics. This pistol seems to need a lower hold than with the G26, especially with 147 gr. Why that is I need to learn. With aging eyes, fuzzy sites and fuzzy target, a drill the dot hold is easier to manage. Couldn't make drill the dot work beyond 3 yds today.

While not happy with today's results I'm not entirely disappointed. I would have been satisfied with all 30 rds hitting the paper. A total of 5 missed. Not good. I was encouraged though to see that my hold adjustment worked in that the remaining strings were more in the black.

I think I'm going to work at this distance more both at the range and dry fire. I was surprised at how big the target looked at 15 yds. And while 15 secs initially seemed too short I ended up with time left over so there's some time to slow down and do better.

Short term goal will be 30 hits on paper, then 30 in the 8 ring. An aggressive, longer term goal will be 30 in the 9 ring.

Drill 1 w/ Lawman 147 gr

14925



Drill 2 w/ Geco 124 gr

14926

JHC
03-18-2017, 04:17 PM
That was a total 1-upping. :p

I will say, this course is one of the best drills available to develop and reinforce solid shooting fundamentals for a service pistol. It doesn't do much to help you shoot faster, but it will highlight any flaws you have in trigger control, grip, and sight alignment.

Some details about the 1911 would be swell! Great shooting!

JSGlock34
03-18-2017, 06:11 PM
Gio shoots a Springfield Pro.

I'll say that I really don't care for the narrow sights that come on the Pro, but they are stellar for this kind of drill.

MVS
03-18-2017, 07:27 PM
Well I am shaming myself by posting this with you guys, but here goes;

G17 MOS w/DPP
Freestyle
273

I dropped 10 points at the 25 and the rest at 15. The 10 at 25 are my trigger control. The dropped points at 15 were mostly a result of not using the available time. Even on the 15 second strings I didn't use more than 8 seconds. As a side note, it was sleeting, snowing, and raining and although there was some rain on my lens of the optic, it didn't bother me much. Now this wasn't a driving heavy rain so that will make a difference.

Doc_Glock
03-18-2017, 08:32 PM
Well I am shaming myself by posting this with you guys, but here goes;

G17 MOS w/DPP
Freestyle
273

I dropped 10 points at the 25 and the rest at 15. The 10 at 25 are my trigger control. The dropped points at 15 were mostly a result of not using the available time. Even on the 15 second strings I didn't use more than 8 seconds. As a side note, it was sleeting, snowing, and raining and although there was some rain on my lens of the optic, it didn't bother me much. Now this wasn't a driving heavy rain so that will make a difference.

Just wait til I post mine....

Gio
03-19-2017, 01:56 PM
Here's a more modest run from this weekend. Glock 19, trijicon HD sights. I had a bad point of aim on the final string of 5 rounds in 10 seconds at the 15 and pushed two rounds into the 8 and one into the 9 high, dropping my total score below 290. I had 5 10's, 4 9's, and 1 8 at the 25 yard line.

14956

busdriver
03-19-2017, 08:27 PM
9mm Springfield Range Officer
Haven't done much group shooting with irons much lately, dropped 23 points on my first attempt. I was snatching the shit out of the trigger.

Worked accuracy for the rest of the practice session and ran it again at the end. Dropped 8 points, all in the black.

Best accuracy came with a focus on grip and straight trigger pull. Not really new info, but good to reinforce things.

I've also been working on learning to shoot with both eyes open while holding a front sight focus. Still needs some work, but I'm making progress. However, I have noticed that it is much easier to track the front sight and see the whole recoil arc.

Doc_Glock
03-21-2017, 10:02 AM
G3G19L Warren-Sevigney sights: 242, two complete misses

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/a24b98b61168ee470cbeace8a85a8a78.jpg

G4G19, Defoor sights: 235, three complete misses.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/6fc81b177311d484c624b810aeb2c446.jpg

This is pretty typical shooting for me, maybe a touch worse than usual due to deadlifts the day prior and some light pressing this day so my forearms were smoked. It is all trigger control and I am working on it. I just don't seem to be seeing much progress with lots of dry and live fire over the past five months where I have dedicated myself to improvement of my pistol shooting.

LJP
03-21-2017, 01:38 PM
Glock 19 w/ Proctor Y-Notch sights and SSVI Tyr trigger

Freestyle

256 if I counted correctly (1 completely off B8)

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170321/6c1a4818083cbbbe08e75674bd3efc44.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BN
03-21-2017, 06:35 PM
I used my old original Gen 2 Glock 17. This pistol probably has upwards of 100,000 rounds through it.
Freestyle
Score 272. The 25 yard hits are circled
This old pistol is still viable. :)

14990

SsevenN
03-22-2017, 09:48 AM
Well I am shaming myself by posting this with you guys, but here goes;


Don't worry - I'll get out to run this drill shortly and make you look good.

SLG
03-22-2017, 09:52 AM
None of you guys have anything to be ashamed about. Its the guys who shoot it and dont post, or who refuse to shoot it (different than just cant get to it because of other priorities) that should be ashamed.


It also shows you that the accuracy standard for FBI instructors is not to shabby.

blues
03-22-2017, 10:09 AM
None of you guys have anything to be ashamed about. Its the guys who shoot it and dont post, or who refuse to shoot it (different than just cant get to it because of other priorities) that should be ashamed.


It also shows you that the accuracy standard for FBI instructors is not to shabby.

I honestly don't think anyone needs to feel "ashamed" as long as they are making an effort to maintain or improve their skills...regardless of whether they post 'em up or not. I'd probably go further and say that even those who don't make the effort for one reason or another don't need to feel ashamed though one might legitimately question the basis for their interest in the site. (Simply taking issue with the chosen term, probably not so much the intent behind the statement.)

SLG
03-22-2017, 12:21 PM
I honestly don't think anyone needs to feel "ashamed" as long as they are making an effort to maintain or improve their skills...regardless of whether they post 'em up or not. I'd probably go further and say that even those who don't make the effort for one reason or another don't need to feel ashamed though one might legitimately question the basis for their interest in the site. (Simply taking issue with the chosen term, probably not so much the intent behind the statement.)

Poor choice of words on my part.

blues
03-22-2017, 12:27 PM
Poor choice of words on my part.

If you were an infallible wordsmith on top of your capabilities in other arenas I'd have to hate you much as "Doc" Holliday did Johnny Ringo. ;)

SsevenN
03-22-2017, 02:21 PM
Snuck out at lunch and shot this - warmed up with 3 very uninspiring 5 round groups at 25 yards.

Pistol used

HK P30L LEM w/TLR-1

Freestyle, strong hand only, or support hand only

Freestyle

Total score for all strings combined

269

Anything you noticed

I need to try this again and slow down, I finished every string with generous amounts of time left.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/20170322_131426_resized_zpsmj4pzzrk.jpg

Wayne Dobbs
03-22-2017, 02:53 PM
There are 300 possible points. Passing score for instructors shooting freestyle is 260. Passing score for instructors shooting strong or support hand only is 240. risk.

Back when men were men at the FBI, instructor passing was 90% (270) and agent passing was 80% (240). So glad to see that lowering of standards continues...

Will be along in a couple of days with my efforts. I've shot a 296 on it in the past, but that was many years of youth ago. I believe that Paul Howe cleaned it when, as a CAG member, he attended FBI Firearms Instructor School at the Academy. Fired with a unit 1911.

SLG
03-22-2017, 05:52 PM
Back when men were men at the FBI, instructor passing was 90% (270) and agent passing was 80% (240). So glad to see that lowering of standards continues...

Will be along in a couple of days with my efforts. I've shot a 296 on it in the past, but that was many years of youth ago. I believe that Paul Howe cleaned it when, as a CAG member, he attended FBI Firearms Instructor School at the Academy. Fired with a unit 1911.

I don't know enough about the FBI's bullseye history to comment on any of that, but I will say, I've never met an FBI instructor that couldn't keep his points in the 280's minimum. Also, when I went through the school, only two guys failed and were kicked out. One was a federal police guy, and the other was a former teammate of Paul Howe's.















Southnarc

SoCalDep
03-23-2017, 12:48 AM
Highest I ever shot calm in practice was a 299 with a Beretta 92FS Inox. I think I shot a 293 demonstrating the drill for students (also a Beretta)... That was with the FBI dimensions - not a B-8. For those of you on the ragged edge of cleaning it... The FBI bullseye is NOT the same as a B-8. I believe the 10 and 9 rings are slightly larger with the same practical dimensions for the 8 ring.

SouthNarc
03-23-2017, 06:56 AM
I don't know enough about the FBI's bullseye history to comment on any of that, but I will say, I've never met an FBI instructor that couldn't keep his points in the 280's minimum. Also, when I went through the school, only two guys failed and were kicked out. One was a federal police guy, and the other was a former teammate of Paul Howe's.















Southnarc



Sure enough I woke up this morning and you're still a dick.

SLG
03-23-2017, 09:19 AM
Sure enough I woke up this morning and you're still a dick.

Nah, you missed this one last night. I think it was the first. I however, woke up this morning, still chuckling:-)

Wayne Dobbs
03-23-2017, 10:31 AM
Highest I ever shot calm in practice was a 299 with a Beretta 92FS Inox. I think I shot a 293 demonstrating the drill for students (also a Beretta)... That was with the FBI dimensions - not a B-8. For those of you on the ragged edge of cleaning it... The FBI bullseye is NOT the same as a B-8. I believe the 10 and 9 rings are slightly larger with the same practical dimensions for the 8 ring.

While I always thought the two bulls were the same, I read this and wondered. So....I went out to my target stash and got an NRA official B-8 and an official FBI bull (LE Targets FBI-IP 1) and a caliper. Following are the diameters of the 10 rings and the nine ring (the bull image):

FBI:

10 Ring - 3.355" (8.84 square inches)
9 Ring - 5.455" (23.37 square inches)

NRA B-8:

10 Ring - 3.35" (8.81 square inches)
9 Ring - 5.55" (24.19 square inches)

So, the FBI's 10 ring is a TINY bit wider and its overall bullseye image diameter is a bit smaller than the B8. Sounds like a wash to me on that. The FBI's eight ring is 0.2" wider overall than the B-8, but I can't get overall dimensions of the two eight rings with my caliper.

Mr_White
03-23-2017, 10:56 AM
While I always thought the two bulls were the same, I read this and wondered. So....I went out to my target stash and got an NRA official B-8 and an official FBI bull (LE Targets FBI-IP 1) and a caliper. Following are the diameters of the 10 rings and the nine ring (the bull image):

FBI:

10 Ring - 3.355" (8.84 square inches)
9 Ring - 5.455" (23.37 square inches)

NRA B-8:

10 Ring - 3.35" (8.81 square inches)
9 Ring - 5.55" (24.19 square inches)

So, the FBI's 10 ring is a TINY bit wider and its overall bullseye image diameter is a bit smaller than the B8. Sounds like a wash to me on that. The FBI's eight ring is 0.2" wider overall than the B-8, but I can't get overall dimensions of the two eight rings with my caliper.

Thanks for checking that Wayne! Much appreciated.

Mr_White
03-23-2017, 11:09 AM
Gen3 G34
Freestyle
295

Anything you noticed: Several things. First, I was REALLY happy to shoot this score. Second, and I already knew this - I don't know what slow fire is. Well, I know what it is, but I can almost never make myself actually do it. Even with 4 minutes for ten shots at 25 yards, I shot 5, dismounted the gun and rested for a few seconds, then shot another five. I'd guess I took about 30-40 seconds total, using ALL THE TIME that I felt would contribute to my most accurate shooting (whether that's right or wrong.) Even taking that long was kind of excruciating. I especially surprised myself with the 15 yards/15 second strings, shooting way, way better than I'd have guessed. Maybe it's just that I rarely shoot slowfire groups at 15 yards, even when I did spend a bunch of time on untimed groups. Anyway, very happy with my results.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3764/33224298120_c8cf80d0ce_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/SBVdjd)20170322_174834 (https://flic.kr/p/SBVdjd) by OrigamiAK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

SLG
03-23-2017, 11:33 AM
Nice shooting Mr_White. It is excruciating at 25, no doubt. I can't bring myself to use anywhere near the full time, but over the years, I have gotten better at it. I think it's a clue that the best Bullseye shooters do use most of the time, but I'm not sure how that applies to my interests beyond this one test.

Mr_White
03-23-2017, 12:12 PM
Thanks!

Wayne Dobbs
03-23-2017, 01:10 PM
Nice shooting Mr_White. It is excruciating at 25, no doubt. I can't bring myself to use anywhere near the full time, but over the years, I have gotten better at it. I think it's a clue that the best Bullseye shooters do use most of the time, but I'm not sure how that applies to my interests beyond this one test.

I just fire 10 single shots from a good ready position for each shot. Keeps me from trying to hang in too long on a shot that shouldn't be fired in a string of shots and is a decent practice at precisely aiming the gun at distance.

SLG
03-23-2017, 01:14 PM
I just fire 10 single shots from a good ready position for each shot. Keeps me from trying to hang in too long on a shot that shouldn't be fired in a string of shots and is a decent practice at precisely aiming the gun at distance.

That's what I do as well.

JAD
03-23-2017, 08:54 PM
Glock 17 TALO
Freestyle
260 points
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170324/55ad44088fecb5a046024b88e8a858fe.jpg

While I marked it out in the photo, one of those holes off the paper belongs to this effort.

I started with a pretty good string at 25:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170324/76caa3821dca4b7212fc842059bc9711.jpg

10 down but a good 10. The left drift is all trigger press. I then ran the 15/15 strings too fast, dropping 5 and 3; and then LOST MY MIND on the two ten second strings, throwing 22 points.

I would like to re-run this.

KG
03-24-2017, 10:26 AM
Beretta 92G
Freestyle
254

Disappointed in my score, but glad to have another benchmark to measure my improvement. As you can see from my 25 yard string and one of my 15 yard strings, I shot left throughout the drill. In this case, I think it was because I recently installed the new Wilson Combat sight that Les designed. Nice sight Les, thanks.

I had not shot beyond 10 yards since installing the sights. I will shoot it again after a sight adjustment. Also, I plan to follow the advice of Wayne/SLG and fire the 25 yard string one shot at a time. In the future, when I install new sights, I need to check my sights at ranges longer ranges than 10 yards.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/IMG_2779.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/IMG_2779.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/IMG_2780.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/IMG_2780.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/IMG_2781.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/IMG_2781.jpg.html)

BobM
03-24-2017, 02:53 PM
A frustrating 245, freestyle with an M&P40. I had two outside the scoring rings

El Cid
03-24-2017, 04:09 PM
G19 Gen 4, Trijicon HD sights. Freestyle. Federal Hydrashok 124gr.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3818_zpsg0qt5zui.jpg

Wayne Dobbs
03-24-2017, 05:43 PM
A 279??

El Cid
03-24-2017, 06:10 PM
A 279??

Not sure if your question was for me... it's a 292. The instructor who scored it said the lower right hit was a double. It looked like only 29 hits at first but there's no way I missed the paper.

ETA: just double checked. Looks like a 277. The instructor counted 15 hits in the 9 ring but his math came out to 150 instead of 135... sigh. That's what I get for not double checking.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsynzacjc7.jpg

DG12
03-24-2017, 06:18 PM
P30 V2
Freestyle
259
Things noticed: I went to fast. I need to put in some serious work on this as I really liked this drill and want to be able to shoot a better score. I hope to try this again soon and will try with different ammo next time to see if there's what the difference is if any (Magtech 115g this time). Thanks for posting this drill.

15053

Matt O
03-24-2017, 07:25 PM
Shot this today and got a 281.

I've definitely let my 25 yard shooting lapse, but I really enjoyed shooting this as a trigger control drill. Pretty fun for only 30 rounds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wayne Dobbs
03-25-2017, 08:14 AM
Not sure if your question was for me... it's a 292. The instructor who scored it said the lower right hit was a double. It looked like only 29 hits at first but there's no way I missed the paper.

ETA: just double checked. Looks like a 277. The instructor counted 15 hits in the 9 ring but his math came out to 150 instead of 135... sigh. That's what I get for not double checking.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsynzacjc7.jpg


That's still a solid run there!

JAD
03-25-2017, 10:44 AM
Those are way cool targets, by the way. Is that the FBI version? I like the white corrugated, if that's what it is.

Francis
03-25-2017, 11:15 AM
G19 gen 4
Freestyle
231 / 245 (Scores assume a -4 if on paper but outside 7 ring, 225/239 if it should count as a miss.)

My 25 yd groups were better, sort of. First attempt had a miss at 25 and a miss at 15. I let the 15 and 10 sec pars rush me and saw my 15 yd groups open up. Positives were overall misses went from 5 to 3. Got 10 hits at 25 yds on second attempt. Improvement areas are slow down at 15 yds. Keep working on trigger so I don't jerk/push when feeling time pressure.

Round 1

15074

Round 2

25 yds

15075

15076

El Cid
03-25-2017, 12:14 PM
Those are way cool targets, by the way. Is that the FBI version? I like the white corrugated, if that's what it is.

Yessir! Every time I've trained with them they use cardboard targets. They even have some coated in a thin wax for rainy weather.
When I train on my own I like these as I can start with a bull and then use the rest for other drills.
https://shop.actiontarget.com/content/dss-ft-qp-marksmanship-fbi-q-qualification-target.asp

El Cid
03-25-2017, 12:18 PM
That's still a solid run there!

Thank you sir! I just felt dumb for thinking it was something it's not. Lol! My best was about a year ago (285) with the same gun. I got a little excited thinking I had a new best.

BN
03-25-2017, 02:42 PM
I shot this again the other evening 4 times. It was late in the evening and the sun was off to my right and all my groups are off to the right. 3 with my G-17; 256, 266 & 279. 1 with my G-21: 260.

15078

Gio
03-26-2017, 03:46 PM
G19 Gen 4, Trijicon HD sights. Freestyle. Federal Hydrashok 124gr.

http://i828.photobucket.com/albums/zz209/El_CidAF_ResQ/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3818_zpsg0qt5zui.jpg

Generally, if all the hits are on paper it's easier to count the points down than trying to add all the hits up. Rookie instructor :p (J/k)

KG
03-26-2017, 03:50 PM
Shot the drill again this morning.

PX4
Freestyle
255

Ithaca 1911
Freestyle
281

The biggest lesson may be that I need to go back to my 1911 and sell everything else! Interesting to me is that I got the same score at 15 yards, but was 26 points worse at 25 yards with the PX4. Maybe at the longer range the difference in sight radius, trigger, width of front sight, and trigger discipline are all magnified.

So far, this is the best DOW for me. I can't always shoot from a holster at my closest range but I can always put up a B8 repair center at 25 and 15. So, I can stop at my range more often when running errands, on the way home from work, etc and shoot this drill to see how well I can score in a variety of weather conditions and stress levels. I've taken three HiTS classes from Darryl and Wayne and the biggest two lessons I learned was being accountable for every shot and training to shoot well on demand whenever necessary. Shooting this drill more often in the midst of my daily life will help with both accountability and on demand performance.

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/IMG_2790.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/IMG_2790.jpg.html)

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb245/Keith_Groen/IMG_2788.jpg (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/Keith_Groen/media/IMG_2788.jpg.html)

SsevenN
03-26-2017, 03:52 PM
I really like this test, it's making me do rhythm based shooting at speeds and distances I'm not well versed in.
Finally got back out there to try it again - this time I shot (3) terrible FASTs and then did (2) 10 round groups at 7 yards to warm up my slowfire "skills" (lol)

First time around a few days ago I shot a 269 (a few pages back) this time I raised the bar slightly with a 278.

I really screwed the pooch on the first two strings at 15 yards, if I had a better point of aim I would not have put that cluster of (4) -2's up.

I'm going to keep this as part of my training routine, at least for the foreseeable future.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/20170326_132004_zpsxizlkknb.jpg

JAD
03-26-2017, 03:53 PM
The 1911 trigger is a crutch. A tasty, tasty crutch.

BobM
03-27-2017, 02:18 PM
Ran it again today with my issue M&P40 2.0. Much better than last week with a 286 15120

Wayne Dobbs
03-28-2017, 01:48 PM
I love this drill and have shot it as a staple for nearly 10 years. On these runs, I was down five points each time at the 25 yard line and then went on to pull a 7 ring hit on both runs.

1. HK VP9 - Freestyle
290/300

2. HK VP9 - Strong Hand Only
281/300

Can't get the pics to upload for some reason, so if somebody wants them emailed/texted and will post them, I'd appreciate it.

Wayne Dobbs
03-28-2017, 07:26 PM
Ran it again today with my issue M&P40 2.0. Much better than last week with a 286 15120

That's a good run!

Mr_White
03-28-2017, 08:29 PM
I love this drill and have shot it as a staple for nearly 10 years. On these runs, I was down five points each time at the 25 yard line and then went on to pull a 7 ring hit on both runs.

1. HK VP9 - Freestyle
290/300

2. HK VP9 - Strong Hand Only
281/300

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3855/33581318981_c02659e994_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Tat3bi)FBI #1 (https://flic.kr/p/Tat3bi) by OrigamiAK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3753/33554265182_09e157d221_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/T85o2u)FBI #2 (https://flic.kr/p/T85o2u) by OrigamiAK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/52790396@N08/), on Flickr

Nice shooting Wayne! :D

TCFD273
03-29-2017, 11:07 AM
First time running the drill. I really like it! Shot it with my CCW G19, with Ameriglo Hackathorn sights. I think it's a 280/279 (depending if line cuts count). https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170329/13cef38e70c8a71f4b355faccb98a53b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doc_Glock
03-31-2017, 03:17 PM
Ran it three more times:
P320C stock sights, 254 one miss.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/2ee5fd4a54f59340f499bd5bbf00ed7a.jpg

New to me P2000 V2 LEM stock sights, 188

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/22ffcd990dbf922cad771920ef18d03a.jpg

I really suck with this trigger. Pulled a lot low and seven completely off target. All during timed fire. The faster I had to shoot the lower I threw them. In fairness these are pretty much my first rounds through the gun.

Glock G19L G3 Warren Sights, 262 with only one miss.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/5917206d78bf936d200fa82c3910c12b.jpg

Requires 6:00 hold. In contrast to the HK, I seemed to hit better in timed fire.

JAD
03-31-2017, 04:56 PM
I did run it again today. I may need to break down and drift the sights a little. After this, I worked a lot on follow through and I will run it yet again.

268 with an inexcusable yip.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/406e203da557557f415dc1fc55769463.jpg

HopetonBrown
04-01-2017, 12:12 PM
Freestyle
Glock 34 Gen 3
269

85/100 for the 25 yard portion, 184/200 for the 15 yards.

Can't consistently shoot 90+/100 at 25 which is irritating.

Had 1 out of the black for the first 15 at 15, which I was happy with, then managed to screw up the final string of 5 at 15 in 10.

Francis
04-01-2017, 01:20 PM
G19 gen 4
Freestyle
3 runs - 256 / 255(261) / 238(242) - Scores depend on if a hit on paper in the '6' ring count as 4 down or as a miss. How is this typically scored if on the paper but outside the 7 ring?

The past two weeks I've spent the bulk of my dry firing time on a scaled to 25 yd 8" circle from Modern Service weapons (http://modernserviceweapons.com/?page_id=522). It seems to be paying off. I've yet to hit my goal of 30 rds on paper but misses are down and groups are tighter. Still not where I want to be but better than 2 weeks ago.

Managed to get 3 runs in today. The third round was the worst. I think fatigue was setting in combined with feeling the pressure of running out of time on my lane. I'm still not using all my time on the 15 sec strings, still have about a 1.5 seconds to use.

1st run

15262


2nd run

15263


3rd run

15264

Duckysattva
04-07-2017, 10:30 AM
Ran this yesterday with a new (to me) G19 that I picked up from another forum member. First time shooting the gun and figured I'd run this to see what things looked like; I've noticed that the rear sight isn't in the center of the slide which is not uncommon from what I've seen in benching my other Glocks so I didn't think much of it. Outcome is the rear sight definitely needs pushing to the right as it's printing left at even 7 yards but it was going to be a quick hit at the range so I didn't have a bag or sight pusher with me yesterday. I'll get it adjusted and shoot things again, hopefully posting a real score or even just all 30 hits on paper next time. Abysmal for today score-wise but I can't say I'm terribly displeased with the group (orange box in the pic are results of the drill, yellow circle are holes from another string shot at 7 yards to check POI). Looks like if I drift to the right I should be able to keep most everything on paper save for the really low chili dipper at the bottom.

15424

SsevenN
04-07-2017, 10:58 PM
Slamfiring this DOTW it seems, either way, doubt I'll top this.

http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk137/SsevenN_photo/FBIbull%20284%204-7-17_zpsrcqquvyf.jpg

Francis
04-08-2017, 02:30 PM
At it once again with mixed results.

G19 Freestyle
2 runs with scores of 243 & 258

1st run ended up with 3 misses on the 4 min string. Other than that remaining rounds were 7 ring or better. Not happy about the 3 misses but glad to keep the remaining shots in a decent group.

2nd run was a first for me. All 30 rounds landed on paper, all but 2 in 7 ring or better.

I noticed a bias to the left in past targets and in dry firing noticed that my grip tends to push the front sight left a little bit. Focused today on even light on both sides of front sight. Also, the current thread on dry firing has a discussion about the speed of trigger pull. At 25 yds I can be so slow on trigger pull that I have to stop and reset due to taking too long. So also focused on a consistent, speedier pull through the resistance of the trigger. The even light focus definitely helped as shots are more evenly distributed. I can't see where a little bit more speed on the trigger was detrimental. Groups today were as good as or better than past groups.

15459


15460

ASH556
04-08-2017, 04:36 PM
Gen 4 G17
Freestyle from JM V3 IWB (missed the part about ready start, oops)
277/300
Shot pretty fast, especially considering I was drawing too. I need more discipline.
A lot of my misses were low. I just switched 17's and I'm thinking there may be a slight POI difference between them even though sights are identical.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/13AE6F99-E871-4F85-8D54-1B810243FDAC.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/13AE6F99-E871-4F85-8D54-1B810243FDAC.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/61F18A9B-0E99-40CB-98FD-7F1AAC204E09.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/61F18A9B-0E99-40CB-98FD-7F1AAC204E09.jpg.html)
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/B6C72398-984D-450D-BA6E-845CEBE4A33C.jpg (http://s854.photobucket.com/user/ASH556/media/B6C72398-984D-450D-BA6E-845CEBE4A33C.jpg.html)

Duelist
04-08-2017, 09:35 PM
Took a brain break from homework and ran out to the desert to shoot this.

I sucked.

Beretta 92A1, Speer Lawman 147gr TMJ. Freestyle.

85/100 at 25. First string at 15, I freaked out about not making the shots in the par time and ripped them off in under 7(!) seconds. All missed the paper low and left. Stupid, you've got 15 seconds to shoot 5 rounds. That's 3 seconds per round. Take your time, breathe, use the trigger instead of slapping it silly, and try using the sights. 14/15 on paper, 124/150 for those three strings, a pathetic 124/200 for all four 15 yard strings.

1546715468

Total of 209. Gonna have to shoot it again sometime. Won't be for a couple of weeks, though.

JHC
04-09-2017, 10:44 AM
With my need for speed sated last weekend in Gabe White school I returned to my 1911s, in this case my new SA LB Operator. I may be hooked on that Operator frame. Even with the heavy 18.5 lb recoil spring it shoots soft.

I lost most of those points on my first of the 10 second runs. Scoring got tough on a single target. Probably between 280-284.

15470

JHC
04-09-2017, 10:51 AM
The 1911 trigger is a crutch. A tasty, tasty crutch.

It is and I'm presently of the mind that I am going to crutch the hell out it this year.

JCS
04-09-2017, 04:42 PM
Glock 34 w/ 147 grn bayou

Score: 278

I had one bad miss at 25 that was off the paper. I'm stoked with this. I've never shot that well from 25 before.

Also I only used like 8 seconds on all the timed attempts. I was worried about going over lol

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/febb989a9722ed60269f412a723ed9a2.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WobblyPossum
04-09-2017, 06:21 PM
I ran this twice today. Beretta PX4 Compact Carry two handed from the high ready using Blazer Brass 124gr.
My first attempt was shot cold. It's actually been 3-4 weeks since I have fired a live round. I've been dry firing regularly but I don't get out to the range as much as I'd like to. On my first attempt, I missed the paper twice on the 25 yard string. This was disappointing but not all together unexpected. I'm more likely than not to miss the paper once or twice on a 10 round string of fire at 25y. My skill just isn't at the level where I can consistently hit the B8 10 out of 10 times.
15486
The 15 yard strings went fairly well for a total score of 256.
15487
My second attempt was at the end of my range session. I managed to put all 10 on paper and got very cocky in my excitement. This would come back to bite me as you'll see in a moment.
15488
I missed the paper four times during the 15y strings. Once during the first 15 second string and three times during the 10 second strings. Final score: an embarrassing 228.
15489

I've always struggled with using my time properly on a times string of fire. At 25y, I knew I basically had all day so I'd shoot a pair DA/SA, decock, bring the gun back in, take a breath, and repeat. My 15 second strings and my 10 second strings were done at the same rate (7.xx seconds). That's a ton of time I'm giving up on the 15s strings. Both groups at the end of the course are also biased towards the right. I'm still getting used to the PX4 (350 rounds total so far after today's range session) and that might have something to do with it. The 25y strings were fairly centered. It was the 15y strings that seemed to push right. If you took my group at the end of the second run and moved it an inch and a half to the left, the score would have been decent. All in all, a great course of fire that showed me a ton of things I need to work on. I'll be shooting it again.

JAD
04-10-2017, 04:54 PM
I'm not much of a goal guy, but I want to all black this son of a bitch in the worst way.

SsevenN
04-10-2017, 05:04 PM
I'm not much of a goal guy, but I want to all black this son of a bitch in the worst way.

My sentiments exactly..It just looks WRONG with shots in the white.

JHC
04-10-2017, 05:36 PM
I'm not much of a goal guy, but I want to all black this son of a bitch in the worst way.

Agree. Then move on the 300 aggregate (similiar but all 25 yards).

Dr. No
04-12-2017, 06:11 PM
Never a perfect run... This was my second run, found I had to lollipop at 25 to punch X's. First run was 287. Yes, using a 9mm 2011. :) Sometimes equipment does matter!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170412/0a28520f4587eac1a425531e442552c0.jpg

jdesro
04-13-2017, 03:13 PM
Pistol used: Smith & Wesson M&P40
Freestyle
Total score for all strings combined: 271
Anything you noticed:

Tough day today - wind was blowing me around pretty good. This pistol seems to shoot a tad high with the load I am using. A true 6 o'clock hold still hits a bit high, so at 25 yards I have to use a kind of sub-6 o'clock, so it is hard to get a good reference point and I seem to string vertically at that distance. Threw one high out of the scoring ring from 25 yards.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2884/34018516935_3a43d14b1b_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/TQ6MU4)IMG_0343 (https://flic.kr/p/TQ6MU4) by John (https://www.flickr.com/photos/38080719@N08/), on Flickr

BaiHu
04-14-2017, 02:55 PM
Freestyle
G4 G19 Ameriglo Bold orange
JRC CDA AIWB II
S&B 115 gr
241
246

Freestyle
G4 G19 HD Trijicon orange
JRC CDA AIWB II
194 HD Trijicon (too high POI given POA like Ameriglo, will re-run) lots of left shots.
210 shooting lower now that I dropped the POA to just the bottom of the black.

Things I noticed: I can't shoot slow. If I spend more than 2 seconds on a shot, it's going to be a bigger problem. I ran every phase WAY under the par time.

After being very disappointed with my performance on the HDs, I checked them and noted that they were a smidge off. I had my MGW, so I drifted them right just the tiniest bit and voila. Here's my last 10 shots to a 5" target. 5 of the S&B and 5 147 Winchester JHP.

Last shot is 6 o'clock as noted by the marker. Now they're both shooting relatively the same way.




https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/2d89e4f575c74529c7829455c689428c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/d6994dc59e9dfd03a772873f7b4b713c.jpg

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Gio
04-14-2017, 03:23 PM
BaiHu

Take a close look at your front sight and make sure it's not slightly twisted in the slide and that it's perfectly parallel to the slide.

BaiHu
04-14-2017, 03:28 PM
BaiHu

Take a close look at your front sight and make sure it's not slightly twisted in the slide and that it's perfectly parallel to the slide.
Thanks. I've tried my best to make sure they're not twisted, but no matter how hard I hold on to that front sight while I'm tightening it down, I always "feel" like I get some movement [emoji17]

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

taadski
04-14-2017, 09:49 PM
I shot this drill for the first time this afternoon, kind-of as an afterthought following a session of a bunch of gamer entry and exit practice. I realized, after I got home, that apparently I can't freaking follow directions (or read), as I only shot 3 strings at the 15. :( I'm posting it anyway.

Pistol was a Sig 226, shot freestyle. No score.

The strings were as follows:

18.34
8.86
7.68
7.88

The hit at 2 o'clock was a heeled DA from the first string at 15. The rest of the points down all came at the 25 and were low. I'm not a bullseye guy but I was holding at the 6 o'clock b/c it seems easier for me to hold there. May have to reevaluate my zero for this pistol. Or learn to hold on the center instead of lollipoping the black. IDK.

Anyway...



http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo324/taadski/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3040_zpszgtk6gh2.jpeg

ssb
04-15-2017, 10:06 PM
266 (2x7; 7x8; 14x9; 7x10 [1x]).

G17 Gen4; 10-8 .156 rear, Dawson .125"x.235" tritium front painted orange; unmodified internals. Ammunition was my 130PF 124gr plated reloads (124gr XTreme, .114 OAL, 4.6gr Win 231, Win SPP). While I'm hesitant to blame the hardware for my performance, I do think this may have held me back a bit (explained below). Shot freestyle.

This was shot cold. It's also the first time I've shot at 25 yards in quite some time and the first time I've done anything but dry fire in a few weeks. Frankly, I was pleased to keep most of the rounds in the black (6/10) as I've been "needing work" at 25 for about two years now (prioritized other things). Moving to the 15 yard line, the first group was fine. I should have slowed down a bit and worked more at the trigger pull, but all rounds remained in the black. Had I slowed down more I feel I could have shifted some of those left 9s into the 10. Stupidity struck on the final two strings, as I burned through those with splits between .3 and .4 seconds. Mentally, I allowed the beep to shift me back into "fire as fast as you can guarantee B8 hits" pace and I dropped three shots into the white as a result. I've been reading a lot of Bolke/Dobbs and the shooting/dry practice I've been doing has involved <10yd rapid hits to the B8; I reverted back to that on the 15yd line rapid fire.

Having said all of that, for cold performance and with a wider front/rear sight than I'm used to (practice gun uses .115/.140) I'm pleased with how it turned out.

15665

Lessons learned:
- Just like when I shot this in a previous class, I had plenty of time. I really should have taken advantage of that. Dropping the points I did at 15 was dumb.
- I can reliably pull .3s guaranteed in-the-black hits at 5-10 yds. I cannot do so at 15yds yet.
- Frankly, it's my first big batch of reloads (did about 2.5K the other week after load development) and I have never fired it for group at 25 yards outside of load development (produced a ~3" group back in February, PF was right, feel was good so I kept it). I noticed all of my first five rounds at 25 yards were trending left (3 clearly in the white, one breaking the scoring line). I held a few inches right and the group centered up into the black. Moved up to 15 yards and the first string remained in the black but definitely trending left. I adjusted my hold slightly and things went centered. Accordingly, I kept that hold for the remainder of my course of fire. As a control/verification that my carry gun's sights were indeed on, I fired 10 rounds of 124gr GDHP +P (carry ammo + ammo I used to zero the sights) at 25 later in the session. All but one was in the black using a center hold; windage was centered, POI was tip of the front sight. To be clear, I don't believe I'm any more accurate than my load is -- my groups would not have shrunk by any means. I do however think that I would have improved had I been more aware of POA/POI with this load. Takeaway: know my POI for the given load if anything important is on the line.

ssb
04-16-2017, 01:47 PM
A better run today: 278/300. 17 of those were in the 10-ring, and only one went into the 7 (called miss at 25). Overall, took more time with the strings, especially the 25yd shots.

15672

WobblyPossum
04-16-2017, 06:26 PM
Tried this twice more yesterday. PX4CC, freestyle from a low ready, 124gr Blazer Brass FMJ. Both runs were back to back as my first drills of the range session.

On my first attempt, I ended up shooting very low and have a ton of rounds in the 7 and 8 rings. I also shanked two rounds on the 15y strings which continues to annoy me. Final score: 228.
15675

The 25y string on my second attempt went pretty damn well for me. 91/100 which is the best I've ever done on a 10 round string at that distance.
15676

The next four strings did not go as well. I threw two more off paper, again to the right in almost the exact spots the previous two paper misses were. Final score: 246.
15677

The good: My group has less rightward bias than the last time.
The bad: I'm still not managing my time properly. My 15s strings were completed in 8.xx, which is how long it took me to run my 10s strings. I bet if I slowed down, I wouldn't be tossing 15y shots in the garbage.

Also, I still can't figure out how to make the photos appear in the correct orientation. My apologies to anyone reading my post on a desktop computer. Sorry I'm making you crank your neck over.

JHC
04-17-2017, 07:45 AM
Yeah it takes a bit of practice to get a sense of 15 seconds and that extra time is pretty important.

I ran a couple dry runs to re-tune for the 15 sec pace yesterday. Also with the LB Operator, 279.

15686

scw2
04-17-2017, 08:57 AM
Shot this on 3/18 with my CZ 75 using cheap UMC ball ammo.

String 1 (25 yds) = 6 x 10, 2 x 9, 1 x 8, 1 x 6 = 90/100 – 2X
String 2 (15 yds, 15 sec x2) = 4 x 10, 4 x 9, 1x8, 1x7 = 91 / 100 – 0X
String 3 (15 yds, 10 sec x2) = 4 x 10, 4 x 9, 2x8 = 92 / 100 – 2X
Total = 273 / 300

15689

Overall not great. Feel like I should be shooting better at 25 yds, but honestly haven't focused on longer range shooting as much in past few weeks/months. On the shorter distances, I didn't drop a ton of points but also should have shot it better. In terms of using my time, I was inconsistent on the speed on strings 2 and 3. Occasionally rushing then slowing down to get hits, or starting too slow and rushing to make time. Feel like I could do a lot better overall with some practice.

scw2
04-17-2017, 04:52 PM
4/1

Shot this with G19 #2, basically my first outing with the G19. Used UMC ball ammo. Pretty rough go of it with the new gun.

25 yds: 10+9+8+8+8+8+7+7+0+0 (two flyers high left) = 65/100
15 yds in 15 sec: 10+9+8+8+0 / 10X+10+9+8+8 = 80 / 100
15 yds in 10 sec: 10+9+9+8+8 / 10X+9+8+8+8 = 87 / 100
Total = 232 / 300

15711

Well, what a let down from the last run with the CZ 75.

What I noticed – shoots high. Also, misses hurt your score a lot. I think it’s a combo of new sights, shorter sight radius and trigger control that I need to work through. Maybe dedicated work to better accuracy shooting free style at longer distances. Plan to shoot this drill or similar more.

scw2
04-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Shot this on 2nd outing with the G19 (#2) on 4/7 at the NRA range.

Pistol used: G19 (#2) with PMC bronze.

Shot this freestyle

Total score for all strings combined = 235 (4X) / 300

Anything you noticed - I improved significantly on the first 2 phases. However, the faster paced strings at 15 yards wrecked me this time. Shots all over the place and not even consistently off in one direction. Need to work on the grip and trigger more. May be that PMC just recoils faster/harder than UMC which may be a bit on the underpowered side.


String 1 far left, String 2&3 right
1571415715

String 4&5 below
15716

scw2
04-17-2017, 05:34 PM
Shot this for a 3rd time with a G19 on 4/15 at the NRA range.

Pistol used: G19 (#2) with 115 grain UMC ball

Shot this freestyle

Total score for all strings combined = 262 (4X) / 300


My first string at 25 yard still sucks. Shots tended to go high there, and had a complete Mike, and shot 75/100 overall. The 15 yard strings were much better, with a 95 and 92. Annoyed at myself since I shot the 2nd 10 sec string way too fast, and cost myself a ton of points. That said, overall much more improved. Looks like I need to work on >15 yd shooting a bit with the G19 plus do more wall drills and work the grip + trigger.

25 yds:
15718

15 yd, 15 sec:
15719

15 yd, 10 sec:
15720

JHC
04-17-2017, 05:40 PM
Kevin B has been discussing "contextualized" shooting with me a good bit lately. I've started to connect the dots on his advocacy of this drill, the 300 Aggregate and the Humbler for instilling the ability to stick to good fundamentals under some time pressure; albeit a level of precision and time pressure different that shooting one of our hyper speed 7 yards drills.

So take this DoW as a for instance. Some slow fire but 2/3s are under a time constraint with the requirement of very good execution of the fundamentals to stay in the black.

This was my first attempt to contextualize this type of shooting. I'm not trying to shoot a hostage rescue shot here, I just used what was handy to simulate a target using cover, inspired by the drills at Gabe White school where we shot from cover, assumed a BG also using cover; which was also applied in our shooting and moving exercises.

I had no pre-set assumptions about how fast to shoot these in. I just shot to my sights and my trigger press. This was my last run with the LB Operator. My first one was educational as I could see a bad press move the front sight off my very tight non-standard target on a couple shots. The leftover cardboard I was cannibalizing was so shot up I started over with a clean target.

So I'm trying to use these controlled precision exercises like this DoW to develop the patience to shoot contextualized challenges with some modicum of success.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/78036189@N07/33943475192/in/dateposted-public/