New 642-1, going back to S&W

[Irelander]

This weekend I picked up a new no-lock 642. I was pretty pumped about it since I have been missing the 642 no dash that I sold back to the original owner who decided he couldn't live without it.

After I installed an Apex trigger kit in it I wiped it down, swabbed the barrel and lubed it. I noticed the patches were hanging up in the forcing cone a little. Upon closer inspection I noticed a burr that runs around the entire inside diameter of the forcing cone face. I thought about just shooting it and not worrying about it but I figure this could negatively impact accuracy. Calling S&W today to get a return label. Guess I better get the Apex kit out of there before I send it. Pretty bummed but honestly I was afraid this would happen. I've heard a lot about bad S&W QC and now I see it first hand.

[blues]

That's disappointing. The one I picked up over the holidays hasn't shown me any warts yet. The trigger pull is heavy but I was expecting that and truth be told I wanted a heavier pull for pocket and AIWB carry. In the limited shooting I've done with it it appears to be on the mark.

Keep us posted if they take care of the issue to your satisfaction.

I have shared your pain, however. I had to send my M&P15 TS to S&W after successfully firing a grand total of one round. To their credit they had the rifle back to me within a week but disappointed doesn't begin to describe my anguish at the time. (Turned out it was an issue with the bolt which was apparently machined out of spec.)

[Irelander]

Thanks blues.

My holsters and speedloaders haven't arrived yet so hopefully I get the gun back fixed up when everything else arrives.

[Duelist]

I've had my 642-2 since 2004. Only issue is the finish mostly peeled off. One of my favorite guns. Only way I'd like it better is if it didn't have the Hillary hole.

They should fix you up.

[James_f]

Just got a JM IWB universal for my 442. I really need to do the Apex spring kit. Did you install all the components? Seem pretty foolproof?

[Leroy Suggs]

Just got a JM IWB universal for my 442. I really need to do the Apex spring kit. Did you install all the components? Seem pretty foolproof?

The Apex kit works well.
I have it in two J's and both have substantially improved trigger pulls.
Never a light strike.

Make sure to install the Apex firing pin and spring that comes with the kit.

[Totem Polar]

FWIW Irelander, I've had 2 recent 642 no locks; one was ok, but there was always stuff rubbing and causing minor hitches as the cylinder turned; it never stopped making little squeaky noises during dry fire. Always went bang, and was as accurate as any J-Frame though. That one went to a friend in a state where dealers can't get no locks, but no law prevented their ownership, so it turned out ok. I'm told it still works fine for tertiary duty. The one I bought most recently is nearly identical, only without the minor rubs and squeaks. I get a lot of use out of it.

Point is: the company is putting out a great, proven design using manufacturing techniques aimed at keeping the street price below 4 bills. It's not inconceivable that an enthusiast might have to go through more than one to find a really nice example. JMO.

[James_f]

Mine has a lock, but otherwise seems to have good tolerances. What is the reasoning to convert to no lock? Is it a fear of failure of the lock. To be honest I don't understand how the lock functions and I don't even know if I have the key/tool.

[Irelander]

There have been enough reports of locks kicking on in the middle of shooting to make me want a no-lock version or convert to no-lock with the plug.

I install the Apex parts myself. The video on their website makes things pretty straight forward.

[Duelist]

James, you can use it, ignore it, stress about it, or remove it, or replace the gun with a -1 with no lock. If you need a key, you can get one from S&W.

The lock disables the action so the trigger and hammer cannot move. When I have used the lock on mine, it has been to disable the gun while it is in checked baggage. If it were not for that sole, very limited application, I would remove it from mine.

There are reputable reports of locks failing and tying up the gun. The failures tend to happen during live fire on heavy recoiling light guns, such as an Airweight .44 magnum. I do not know of any on an Airweight jframe, but it is possible.

[MGW]

Hope you get a good response from them.

Mine 642-1 has a neat trick. I was doing some dry fire the other day in a dimly lit room. I was using my reflection in a mirror to practice quick shots to the head box. First few trigger presses made me do a double take. I could see sparks! Really took me a minute to figure out what was going on. Every time the firing pin would drop a small amount of sparks would shoot out of the firing pin hole. Weird. I don't have a ton of rounds through it. Maybe 500 or so. Seems to work fine. The cylinder release needs to be tightened up fairly often but other than that seems okay.

Reminded me of those little plastic translucent spark guns that were around when I was a kid.

[Leroy Suggs]

The sparks are normal. No worries.

[APS-PF]

If you're not going to shoot it first before you send it back take a mag glass and check to make sure the barrel isn't canted. If it is then maybe get them to straighten it while it's in for service.

[OlongJohnson]

I was reading in Kunnhausen a few nights ago. He said something like 60 percent of post-MIM, post-lock S&Ws he inspected out of the box required some amount of attention from a smith to be considered ready to be put into service.

[ca survivor]

Pretty bummed but honestly I was afraid this would happen. I've heard a lot about bad S&W QC and now I see it first hand.

so why did you buy it then ?

[MGW]

so why did you buy it then ?

Snark much?

[Irelander]

Pretty bummed but honestly I was afraid this would happen. I've heard a lot about bad S&W QC and now I see it first hand.

so why did you buy it then ?

Because I wanted a S&W 642.

[NickA]

When I bought mine several years ago it wouldn't rotate one of the cylinders fully into battery (or whatever the proper revo terminology is). Quick trip back to the factory and it's been fine since.
Bummer but I'm sure they'll get you fixed up.

[ca survivor]

Because I wanted a S&W 642.

I mean that one in particular, I have bucket full of Js and no issues, mine are older gen. though.

[jh9]

I was reading in Kunnhausen a few nights ago. He said something like 60 percent of post-MIM, post-lock S&Ws he inspected out of the box required some amount of attention from a smith to be considered ready to be put into service.

Kuhanhausen is a pen name. The most recent S&W revolver shop manual (5th ed I think) finally included information about the MIM guns. Updates for the MIM guns are purportedly written by Ron Power, who happens to sell a ton of aftermarket S&W revolver parts.

More than half the guns needing remedial work strains credibility.

[OlongJohnson]

You’re right, 5th edition.
p. 205

Further regarding recent S&W firearms manufacture- it must be stated that more than 60% of the new S&W revolvers received and examined by author prior to publication of this manual have had mechanical problems that, on inspection, were so obvious that these revolvers should never have been shipped by the factory in the first place.


I haven't read earlier editions, and the consistent mentions of Power Customs parts throughout was actually a little odd. It does diminish the integrity of the whole work a bit if Ron Power was the primary writer of new material and did significant other editing in the edition published after Kuhnhausen's death. Putting a photo of himself in the book and the almost exclusive mentions of his own products (no others immediately come to mind apart from Brownell's stuff) without being transparent about his editorial role is pretty weak sauce. I might have to dig up an earlier edition.

But to the point of the defect rate, I don't find it incredible on the face of it. There's a big gap between a gun that will go bang when the trigger is pressed (versus not going bang) and one that passes a complete armorer's mechanical inspection. Look at Dagga Boy's comments about the percentage of 1911s that will pass a complete armorer's inspection and functional tests out of the box. It's very low, and yet they almost all go bang and function well enough that most owners are oblivious. I'm not a trained armorer, but I'm two for two (one S&W, one Ruger) on new production revolvers going home before ever seeing range time, and I've looked at many others that were disappointing by the most minimal of standards in stores. If seriously gnarly burrs on the ratchet count, S&W seems to be close to 100 percent lately.

[HCM]

Kuhanhausen is a pen name. The most recent S&W revolver shop manual (5th ed I think) finally included information about the MIM guns. Updates for the MIM guns are purportedly written by Ron Power, who happens to sell a ton of aftermarket S&W revolver parts.

More than half the guns needing remedial work strains credibility.

Unfortunately it matches my experience with recent production S&W revolvers.

[Irelander]

I called S&W on the 14th and was on hold for too long so I tried their online chat thing. No one was available to chat so I entered a ticket. Got an email same day stating my ticket was in the system and they would get back to me in 3 to 5 days!! Yikes. Still no word from them.

[jh9]

But to the point of the defect rate, I don't find it incredible on the face of it. There's a big gap between a gun that will go bang when the trigger is pressed (versus not going bang) and one that passes a complete armorer's mechanical inspection. Look at Dagga Boy's comments about the percentage of 1911s that will pass a complete armorer's inspection and functional tests out of the box. It's very low, and yet they almost all go bang and function well enough that most owners are oblivious. I'm not a trained armorer, but I'm two for two (one S&W, one Ruger) on new production revolvers going home before ever seeing range time, and I've looked at many others that were disappointing by the most minimal of standards in stores. If seriously gnarly burrs on the ratchet count, S&W seems to be close to 100 percent lately.

I don't think the 1911 comparison is apt. That's a case of issues that don't surface immediately, but impact function when they do. A clocked barrel isn't going to get more clocked by shooting it, nor is it going to tie the gun up if you really shoot it. Or take OP's problem: the gun will still serve in its intended role with the defect it had. That doesn't excuse the lack of attention to detail S&W's exhibit these days, but they're a different class of problem altogether. I haven't seen, e.g. a rash of 929s that ship from the factory completely out of time, or new production guns that skip chambers when you really get on them, or a bunch of guns with enough endshake to seize when they get hot.

I wouldn't buy a new S&W revolver and expect it to be "right" out of the box. IMO they universally need action work and a thorough once over so you don't get what OP had, or a clocked barrel, etc. But I would expect it to function as well now as they ever have. They haven't managed to screw that up wholesale. ...Yet.

[Caballoflaco]

James, you can use it, ignore it, stress about it, or remove it, or replace the gun with a -1 with no lock. If you need a key, you can get one from S&W.

The lock disables the action so the trigger and hammer cannot move. When I have used the lock on mine, it has been to disable the gun while it is in checked baggage. If it were not for that sole, very limited application, I would remove it from mine.



There are reputable reports of locks failing and tying up the gun. The failures tend to happen during live fire on heavy recoiling light guns, such as an Airweight .44 magnum. I do not know of any on an Airweight jframe, but it is possible.


The internal lock on the 642 that I bought back in 2004 locked up the gun during dry fire.

Interestingly, like with Dualist's pistol, the finish on mine flaked off after about a half week of carry in the liquid heat we have here in the Deep South. When I contacted S&W (about the finish) they asked if I had carried it at all and told me tough shit, so it's really ugly but it has been accurate and reliable since I trimmed the "flag" on the internal lock.

[Duelist]

Purchased mine in Jan or Feb of 2004. No issues with the lock. It was my only carry gun for over ten years. Shot it a lot, dry fired even more.

[Irelander]

Still not a peep from S&W. I will give them another call later today.

[Irelander]

Finally got ahold of S&W on Friday. They sent me a Fedex label so I'm hoping to get it sent back to the mother ship today.

[blues]

Finally got ahold of S&W on Friday. They sent me a Fedex label so I'm hoping to get it sent back to the mother ship today.

Wow...I didn't realize that all this time you were awaiting a label. I thought you were awaiting a status report. Sorry to hear this. Please keep us posted.

[Irelander]

Yeah I called S&W a week ago and didn't have time to wait on hold for very long, so I fill out there online form. This generates a ticket that gets dropped into oblivion. I waited the 3-5 days thinking they would get to me since I had a ticket number and confirmation email. No luck. I called on Friday and talked to person after a short wait on hold.

[Irelander]

Arrived at S&W today.

[Irelander]

Can anyone give me a rough estimate on the time it takes to get your revolver back from S&W warranty service?

Yeah, I'm impatient.

[LSW]

Not sure about revolvers but on semi-autos the turnaround has been about 3 weeks.

[ST911]

Can anyone give me a rough estimate on the time it takes to get your revolver back from S&W warranty service?

Yeah, I'm impatient.

Based on some experiences, if you need parts or repair the process is reasonably smooth and fast. If your gun needs to be replaced, all bets are off. Replacement of my 442 in late 2014:


8/3-8/8, misc comms with LE rep
8/11, call tag received from factory and gun shipped
8/27, contact from factory, gun unrepairable, need FFL for replacement
8/29, FFL sent
9/8, status check requested - no response
9/22, status check requested - no response
10/15, status check requested, replacement allocated, should receive 10/20-10/24
11/3, status check requested, gun is shipping that day, tracking number provided
11/5, gun delivered

[Irelander]

Tracking number shows my revolver was delivered 3/30 to S&W. I just got an email today 4/5 saying it has been received and is being processed. Now I have an RMA# to reference so I guess that's good.

[Irelander]

Starting to regret sending it in. I should have just shot it to see how it grouped. Oh well at least my PCS holster isn't in yet. It would be a shame to have that nice holster and no gun to use it with.

[Irelander]

Called S&W this morning. They said there is no update currently and to check back in 2 weeks. :(

[jws]

Bummer. That seems like an awful long time.

[Hemiram]

Two or three weeks isn't bad.

Back in the later 70's and early 80's, I had a run of really bad new guns and sent my garbage Colt Combat Commander in to Colt and it was there 8 weeks. It came back, and they did nothing to it except scratch it up. I sent it back again, and again it was gone a couple of months. When it came back, it had more scratches on it and the FTF issues it had were never resolved. A couple of local gunsmiths said it never should have made it out of the factory and it should have been replaced. Taurus got my first ever gun back a Model 83 that had severe spitting issue, along with a totally messed up barrel. They fixed the timing issue, but the card said, "No problems found". I called them again and argued with someone who said there was "Nothing wrong" with the barrel. Since the rifling was totally non-existent about 2/3rds of the way down the barrel, then appeared again at the muzzle, causing severe leading and ripping the jackets off of bullets, there was something wrong! A look with a borelight would have showed them what was going on. When I was offered close to what I paid for it, I was more than happy to sell both of them. I replaced the Taurus with a Dan Wesson 15-2, and the Colt with a Beretta 92. Both were great guns.

[camsdaddy]

I sent my 360J and I'm not certain but I think it was there less than a week. I was surprised because their estimate was much longer.

[HCM]

Two or three weeks isn't bad.

Back in the later 70's and early 80's, I had a run of really bad new guns and sent my garbage Colt Combat Commander in to Colt and it was there 8 weeks. It came back, and they did nothing to it except scratch it up. I sent it back again, and again it was gone a couple of months. When it came back, it had more scratches on it and the FTF issues it had were never resolved. A couple of local gunsmiths said it never should have made it out of the factory and it should have been replaced. Taurus got my first ever gun back a Model 83 that had severe spitting issue, along with a totally messed up barrel. They fixed the timing issue, but the card said, "No problems found". I called them again and argued with someone who said there was "Nothing wrong" with the barrel. Since the rifling was totally non-existent about 2/3rds of the way down the barrel, then appeared again at the muzzle, causing severe leading and ripping the jackets off of bullets, there was something wrong! A look with a borelight would have showed them what was going on. When I was offered close to what I paid for it, I was more than happy to sell both of them. I replaced the Taurus with a Dan Wesson 15-2, and the Colt with a Beretta 92. Both were great guns.

I sent a Colt Wiley Clapp Govenment Model in for repair of a broken slide stop beginning of September 2016 and got it back the end of January 2017.

S&W has always been much faster with warranty work.

[Irelander]

Just called S&W again. They said that they cleaned up the forcing cone and should be shipping it back to me soon. So I'm hoping to have it back in the next few days.

[Irelander]

Just got shipment notification. Should have it back on Wednesday.

[Irelander]

I need to quit looking at the tracking information for stuff. Its frustrating when package seem to go the long way to get to you.

I live in western PA.
6:00PM Package leaves MA.
11:00PM Package arrives in Memphis, TN.

They could have air dropped it to me!

[L-2]

Thanks for the updates. Memphis is a Fedex "hub" and I suppose the system works well overall.
(I bought some SIG P226 grips off Ebay. From the east coast, via US Mail, it was mis-sent to Hawaii, over a three day weekend, and finally got to me in California. The 3 day estimating transit time took ~10 days for that purchase.)

Over the years, I've had several firearms needing work or replacement, including a couple of S&W revolvers.
I've been following your thread to see how S&W's service comes through for you.
As I type this, I'm wearing my 642-1 right now.

[Irelander]

Just got email notification that it was delivered to my house.

[Irelander]

The forcing cone looks really good now. No burr and much more smooth than before. I had left the Apex trigger return spring in the gun when I sent it back cause I didn't feel like removing it. S&W removed it for me but actually gave it back to me which I was surprised to find. However, the stock trigger feel pretty nice now and I remember being underwhelmed by it before. Wondering if maybe they smoothed things up inside. I haven't cracked the side plate to inspect yet.