View Full Version : Recoil
Here are some slow motion videos of high end competitive shooters' recoil cycles. One way I like to analyze these, assuming the camera is held still, is by putting my mouse pointer on the front sight before the gun fires, leaving it there, and then watching how the sight behaves in recoil relative to the mouse pointer location.
(skip to 20:30)
https://youtu.be/ChSazF41q-s?t=20m29s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-Wedt3N4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9sPAGtYz-s
In Caleb's video (the last one), you can very slightly see a transition happening to a sort of two-phase recoil cycle that isn't as present in Jerry's or Mike's. The first phase is like Jerry's and Mike's. The sight flings up, the slide cycles, and the sights settle with a little wiggle up and down. However, on some of his reps, the front sight settles a little bit higher than it started. Then, in the second phase, his whole gun and hands and arms gently settle bringing the front sight back on target. It's very slight for Caleb and only present on some reps in that video.
Here (different shooter), the effect is more dramatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJzLjFFjiu4
And here the first phase is not always even completed, and the second phase doesn't happen or is cut out from the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOirbcsCQ1o
If people have more examples, please post them! I'd really like to see some Production competition Glock examples, particularly Bob Vogel and Dave Sevigny. I'd also be really curious to see some of our members here, like Mr_White and Paul Sharp.
Do people think the single-phase recoil cycle is obtainable for most any average person with any equipment and any ammo? Duty ammo vs. light competitive loads behave differently in recoil, as do steel guns vs. polymer, and so on.
What do you think a two-phase recoil shooter would need to change to obtain a one-phase recoil cycle?
Interesting questions. Note the Kimber ejection patterns; like a certain polymer framed SFA gun. :D
Mr_White
03-03-2017, 01:27 PM
Here are some slow motion videos of high end competitive shooters' recoil cycles. One way I like to analyze these, assuming the camera is held still, is by putting my mouse pointer on the front sight before the gun fires, leaving it there, and then watching how the sight behaves in recoil relative to the mouse pointer location.
(skip to 20:30)
https://youtu.be/ChSazF41q-s?t=20m29s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-Wedt3N4U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9sPAGtYz-s
In Caleb's video (the last one), you can very slightly see a transition happening to a sort of two-phase recoil cycle that isn't as present in Jerry's or Mike's. The first phase is like Jerry's and Mike's. The sight flings up, the slide cycles, and the sights settle with a little wiggle up and down. However, on some of his reps, the front sight settles a little bit higher than it started. Then, in the second phase, his whole gun and hands and arms gently settle bringing the front sight back on target. It's very slight for Caleb and only present on some reps in that video.
Here (different shooter), the effect is more dramatic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJzLjFFjiu4
And here the first phase is not always even completed, and the second phase doesn't happen or is cut out from the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOirbcsCQ1o
If people have more examples, please post them! I'd really like to see some Production competition Glock examples, particularly Bob Vogel and Dave Sevigny. I'd also be really curious to see some of our members here, like Mr_White and Paul Sharp.
Do people think the single-phase recoil cycle is obtainable for most any average person with any equipment and any ammo? Duty ammo vs. light competitive loads behave differently in recoil, as do steel guns vs. polymer, and so on.
What do you think a two-phase recoil shooter would need to change to obtain a one-phase recoil cycle?
Well, I skimmed the videos and I have a few thoughts, but I maybe think about this in different terms than you are using to frame it.
I think it's going to be hard to discern anything very specific from the videos you posted because I don't think any of them really show the target difficulty and I can't tell how fast the real time shooting is in Jerry's or Caleb's. They appear to all be demonstrations of recoil control/gun cycle in isolation. I believe this to be a problem in comparing them because I think people manage recoil differently depending on the target difficulty. I also don't know whether Caleb was shooting at a target in that video. If he wasn't, a lack of defined point of aim might lead to the gun returning to an inconsistent spot - or maybe he was adjusting for a difficult target - I don't know.
If I shoot a Bill Drill at 7 yards and one at 25 yards, the 7 yard Bill Drill is going to have me driving the gun back on target more aggressively, firing with the gun in a higher state of motion, less care on the trigger, and with less follow-through (lag time) at the end of each subpart of the process. The 25 yard Bill Drill will be in the opposite direction with all those. I think there is a semiconscious or unconscious recognition that the harder the shot, the more one has to invest in each part (especially trigger) to avoid messing it up. More direct to what I think you are asking about with recoil control, harder shots require more 'allowing' the gun to come back to the target spot and easier shots can withstand more 'driving' the gun back to the target spot. And the better you are, the more you end up 'driving' the gun back on harder shots without overdriving it below the target spot, and the more you end up firing with the gun in motion rather than settled into stillness.
The part of the cycle where the gun is basically back on target but bouncing up and down a little, I think is where you can really get into subtleties of the gun, springs, and ammo, in addition to shooter skill.
This is really just my take off the top of my head and only having skimmed the videos, and I have a whole lot to learn about shooting and doing it better, so take it FWIW.
Here are some examples of me shooting that show some of these things - sorry I don't have any direct illustrations of recoil control to offer.
I know I've used this video as a reference frequently, but it's the only true high speed video I have. Take a look at the Bill Drill that starts at 0:33 (7 yards, 6A.) For a ~2 second Bill Drill, I generally have ~.20 splits, give or take a couple hundredths. That's very close to going as fast as I can pull the trigger (I don't have a quick trigger finger.) And you can see that the limiting factor is the trigger manipulation. The gun has been back on target for some amount of time before I even get the trigger reset.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rc7s-z7RBw
The beginning of this video shows a couple of 7 yard Bill Drills at full speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCCZbEthVzo
Wish I had a 25 yard Bill Drill on video to compare, but I didn't find any.
This one has some 25 yard shooting, but it is an El Presidente. So not the same as the Bill, but I think you can see how the whole process is elongated in time, with a little more dead space at the end of each element (costs time, but increases the level of care in sights and trigger, essentially.) Especially notice how much more gently I am (subconsciously) driving the gun back to the target spot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUtu7ipg4vI
I actually don't remember what the heck I was doing in this video exactly, but I seem to be shooting 2" circles at (I think) 7 yards, and it shows a lot the same thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDOfm3vmkSw
I don't really think I answered your question dove, but I hope this contributes to the answer at least. :)
nwhpfan
03-03-2017, 02:02 PM
I don't think about recoil - I tend to think about getting back on for the next shot. To accomplish that I have to control recoil I know. Early on controlling recoil seemed like something only really strong people could do. A friend of mine who can literally choke out recoil told me that it's still moving around a lot for him. It made me realize what it looks like to the person not shooting is not what the shooter sees. Essentially my friend and I were seeing the same thing behind the gun. Seemed it was Steve Anderson, maybe not, who talked about riding the recoil. That just made sense to me since I couldn't image choking it out. I grip so the gun rises and sets right back for the next shot so I can fire again. When I watch on video it looks like the gun isn't moving but I know my hands are subconsciously working like a micro computer to adjust and control. The breakthrough for me...again I'll give credit to Steve Anderson, was really learning how to track the sights, call shots. And it just took some bill drills into the blank berm and the idea of processing all the information and trying to make the gun rise and fall how and where I wanted I just learned how to grip.
Here is my shooting friend who can really choke out recoil. Start at 31 seconds and you'll really see what I mean.
https://youtu.be/bsIygtO376Q?t=31s
Here's a video of me hosing where like Mr. White says, I can be very aggressive.
https://youtu.be/zW547hSgEbw
Here's a video of my shooting a 25 yard bill drill. I have nothing to lose here so I'm still shooting very aggressive. In none of these am I thinking about recoil or how to control it. I'm just thinking about how to get the sights back to where I want to shoot next and being ready to fire as soon as I can.
https://youtu.be/Wlzqw4N9cGU?t=23s
TicTacticalTimmy
03-03-2017, 02:23 PM
Thank you for the mouse pointer tip Dove, I'm going to put that one to good use
A touch of Sevigny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn_xIzojy0U
Vogel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REAYaSzSlWw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVlKr1nfCrk
Leatham:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vbkn-0thR1E
It's very hard to analyze what I'm talking about with only full speed footage. Slow motion is really really useful.
Thanks for the replies!
Mr_White, I agree 100% with you that people control recoil different depending on the target circumstances. I definitely do. However, it's not clear to me that we should, and it's also not clear to me if world-class shooters do this (as much) too. If we should expect it to be different even in the ideal case, should the cycle change in style and shape, or should it only change in muzzle rise and such?
IIRC, in Enos's book he makes it sound like you should see the same sort of smooth up and down sight movement regardless of the target. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think I've heard SLG say something similar here, maybe he can chime in.
In posting this thread, I'm not particularly concerned with the ideas of "driving" and how flat or how quickly or how unbobbly recoil can be made to happen. What I'm specifically concerned with here is the nature of the gun movement in recoil. You could imagine a single-phase cycle being very slow, very high muzzle rise, and very bobbly on return. That would still be a fundamentally different recoil movement though than a two-phase cycle. My gut feeling is that the single-phase style is independent from clamping down or driving hard on the gun, and that it is a result of the method of controlling recoil more so than the strength of controlling it. When I think of driving the gun or the strength of recoil control, I think more of trying to control the height of muzzle rise, the speed of return, the bobble, and so on. But I really have no clue.
In a two-phase cycle, there is sometimes the appearance of a strong whipping motion through the arms which is what ultimately leaves the whole package higher up. This makes me wonder if the difference is in arm or shoulder tension, positioning, or mechanics.
Separately, there are the questions of whether one of these styles is more desirable than the other at all and whether or not equipment is a significant factor.
Here are some videos that show the first phase of a two-phase cycle very well, but don't show the subsequent settling of the arms (second phase). Note that there tends to be a distinguishable settling of the front sight both higher up than it started and further backwards. The muzzle ends up flat at the end, but high and back.
These are remarkably similar to what I saw in videos of my own shooting a long time ago, and what I imagine I'd see in video taken today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=414hyoK6iW4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HElQk2wEY5w
I'm still looking for more and better videos showing the full two-phase cycle I'm talking about.
Some actual sight stalling, for contrast:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74l4huYVLPY
Some mild two-phase examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxyDt3nDf2A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDLY9Gsmcb4
Very clear two-phases, despite a quick return and not much movement (starts at 0:12):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtIR886dhHI
Watching some of these, it's starting to look like this occurs when the muzzle flip exceeds the range of motion in the wrists or when the arm (elbow, shoulder?) flexibility becomes greater than that of the wrists at some point in the cycle (the former is a special case of the latter). I've also heard people talk about tension changing during recoil, which is maybe relevant here
Here is a good slow motion video I took on a stage I shot at a sectional match last year. Glock 35 shooting 137 pf ammo in production.
https://youtu.be/Tj5FWzat_zY
taadski
03-03-2017, 10:51 PM
Anderson talks about one of the keys to higher level performance as being ready to press the trigger as soon as the front sight (or dot) returns to its starting position. He describes the firing/recoil process as the dot jumping in recoil, coming back down and passing BELOW the horizontal starting point, coming back up and then shimmying before coming to rest. He advises that the goal is to catch (or time) the return of the dot so that you're pressing the next shot just as it comes back down to horizontal but BEFORE it travels below, thereby avoiding all the time required for it (the dot) to come fully to rest.
I can tell you that for me, even shooting teen splits, with minor PF ammo the recoil cycle on my pistol is pretty complete before I can physically press the trigger again. With a heavier recoiling caliber like .40 or .45, there IS more gun/sight movement but if I'm warmed up with the caliber (read timing), I can usually muster similar splits with very similar accuracy. IME, it's more about timing the return than it is about trying to keep the gun from moving.
FWIW, I'm still not sure I quite understand how you're differentiating between "single phase" vs "two phase". Those your definitions?
Anyway, here's some slow-mo footage at a teen split pace shooting at a lower A at 7 yards:
https://youtu.be/Qt0n0trsbJg
Bill drill same angle, same target at regular play speed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6s5aYx4yH0
Mr_White
03-03-2017, 11:14 PM
dove, I was reading and kind of having trouble following, then I watched a couple of the videos and I think I get you now. I think that two stage thing is just janky recoil control from insufficient tension and pressure, especially in the wrists, but also in the upper body structure between the torso and arms, to stiffly hold the gun in space. Bill Rogers calls it 'lockup' and it's the same thing Jerry Miculek referred to as 'wrist lock' I think in his video.
Mr_White
03-03-2017, 11:21 PM
Anderson talks about one of the keys to higher level performance as being ready to press the trigger as soon as the front sight (or dot) returns to its starting position. He describes the firing/recoil process as the dot jumping in recoil, coming back down and passing BELOW the horizontal starting point, coming back up and then shimmying before coming to rest. He advises that the goal is to catch (or time) the return of the dot so that you're pressing the next shot just as it comes back down to horizontal but BEFORE it travels below, thereby avoiding all the time required for it (the dot) to come fully to rest.
I can tell you that for me, even shooting teen splits, with minor PF ammo the recoil cycle on my pistol is pretty complete before I can physically press the trigger again. With a heavier recoiling caliber like .40 or .45, there IS more gun/sight movement but if I'm warmed up with the caliber (read timing), I can usually muster similar splits with very similar accuracy. IME, it's more about timing the return than it is about trying to keep the gun from moving.
FWIW, I'm still not sure I quite understand how you're differentiating between "single phase" vs "two phase". Those your definitions?
Anyway, here's some slow-mo footage at a teen split pace shooting at a lower A at 7 yards:
https://youtu.be/Qt0n0trsbJg
Bill drill same angle, same target at regular play speed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6s5aYx4yH0
LOTS of agreement with that taadski!
You've been really into recoil for a long time now. What are you trying to achieve? Are you having an issue you can't get straightened out that you think might be recoil related?
Maybe a didn't do a good enough job spelling this out. Yea, these are made up terms for this for the sake of conversation:
Single-phase recoil cycle: The gun goes off and the front sight lifts, the muzzle tilts up while the slide cycles. Eventually, the slide begins returning and the muzzle begins to tilt back down. The muzzle may dip below horizontal, rise again, and repeat this optionally ("bobble") any number of times. The muzzle eventually settles at horizontal. When the muzzle returns to horizontal, the front sight is in the same physical location it was when the gun fired.
Two-phase recoil cycle: Phase one: The gun undergoes the single-phase recoil process, but when the muzzle returns to horizontal the front sight is not in the same place it started. Instead, it ends up higher than it started, and often further backwards (towards the shooter). At the end of phase one, the entire gun has moved up; both the front sight and the rear sight. Phase two: by means of the arms, elbows, or shoulders, the whole gun now moves back down in one piece (front sight and rear sight simultaneously) and settles where it started.
Sight stalling: The muzzle flips up, and so on. When the muzzle begins lowering again, it never reaches horizontal or below. There may be a bobbling effect, but it occurs at an elevated angle, not horizontal. When the gun settles, the front sight is higher up than the rear sight.
I've posted slow-mo video examples of all of these. For a solid single-phase cycle, watch any of the competitive shooters, namely the Miculek or Hughes videos. For a solid two-phase recoil cycle watch the 4th video: "Slow motion recoil comparison". For sight stalling, watch the first video in post #8: "Colt 1911 in super slow motion". The other videos have additional examples.
It's hard to see what I'm talking about unless you use the mouse-pointer trick or carefully freeze frame back and forth.
Something to pay attention to: Watch the relative timing between the cycling of the slide and the tilting of the muzzle. If the muzzle continues to tilt upwards with significant speed after the slide has already started moving forwards, it tends to result in a two-phase recoil cycle. In this case, you'll often see the slide return completely to battery before the muzzle begins tiling back down. In the extreme case, it becomes sight stalling. On the other hand, if the muzzle begins tilting back down while the slide is still moving forward (before being in battery), it tends to be a single-phase recoil cycle. There's a continuous spectrum here which correlates with the spectrum defined above, from single-phase cycle all the way to sight stalling.
Gio's video is a really good example. There's both slow shooting on far targets and fast shooting on close targets. In both cases, he has a very natural, fluid, single-phase recoil cycle. The only thing that changes is how long he takes to break the shot. The nature of the recoil control is essentially the same.
dove, I was reading and kind of having trouble following, then I watched a couple of the videos and I think I get you now. I think that two stage thing is just janky recoil control from insufficient tension and pressure, especially in the wrists, but also in the upper body structure between the torso and arms, to stiffly hold the gun in space. Bill Rogers calls it 'lockup' and it's the same thing Jerry Miculek referred to as 'wrist lock' I think in his video.
Yea, that's my gut feeling. I'm trying to chase after the specifics.
Enos talks about avoiding tension and only using enough muscle tension to lift the gun up. Somehow that doesn't seem like the answer here. It looks likes insufficient tension is allowing the arms and shoulders to be whipped around and into new positions. I wonder though if it's a matter of intentional tension vs. finding a certain position of the arms and shoulders that naturally forces them to have a certain tension.
You've been really into recoil for a long time now. What are you trying to achieve? Are you having an issue you can't get straightened out that you think might be recoil related?
I appreciate where you're going with this, but it's not the direction I want to take this right now.
taadski
03-04-2017, 03:48 PM
I think some of this goes back to the dichotomy of, on one hand, keeping things firm enough such that excessive movement isn’t taking place, but on the other, ensuring things are relaxed enough that elements of speed, fine trigger control, etc. can.
I think the reason you see some folks manifest less desirable recoil control on harder targets/shots is because of a realization (subconscious or otherwise) that excessive tension in that circumstance can lead to less than adequate results down range and they’re relaxing to a point where they can do everything correctly to make the shot. I think that ideally, like in Gio’s shooting, one can maintain the needed degree of firmness to keep the gun flat, while not manifesting enough tension such that it causes problems with accuracy.
It’s a balance that will have a different blend of requirement based on the skill level of the shooter and the difficulty of the target. I don’t believe my pistol tracks quite as flat shooting bill drills at 25, for example, as it does at 7. And it is a point of training focus for me personally. (shrug)
I wonder though if it's a matter of intentional tension vs. finding a certain position of the arms and shoulders that naturally forces them to have a certain tension.
I think the only way you're truly going to solve these riddles for yourself is to go shoot. And observe how the impetus' you're adding are effecting the gun.
guymontag
03-04-2017, 09:28 PM
dove, I was reading and kind of having trouble following, then I watched a couple of the videos and I think I get you now. I think that two stage thing is just janky recoil control from insufficient tension and pressure, especially in the wrists, but also in the upper body structure between the torso and arms, to stiffly hold the gun in space. Bill Rogers calls it 'lockup' and it's the same thing Jerry Miculek referred to as 'wrist lock' I think in his video.
Stupid question: can you go more into this wrist lock & lockup? I know you cant the other strong hand forward and keep the thumb pointed towards the target - actively correct? Do you also put tension or firmness into the firing hand too? Any mental cues or training tips for stiffly holding the gun in space?
I've always just held the gun out there but maybe there can be more to it than that.
Grip force and follow through are everything when it comes to resetting the sights and gun back to where it was before the shot broke. If I stick a dummy round randomly in a magazine and run bill drills or some other kind of speed drill like this, you will see a massive push forward and down that would look like a flinch, but it's actually a post-ignition push to counter recoil. I've found this is something shooters develop subconsciously over time. As a side note, this is one reason ball and dummy drills are more of a new/struggling shooter drill and don't help advanced shooters. In fact, instructors that aren't familiar with the post ignition push can mis-diagnose advanced shooters as having a flinch.
The more time and rounds you have on your specific gun with your specific ammo, the more consistent your ability to control recoil and put the sights back to the same spot. If you change guns/calibers/loads frequently, I think it's much harder to develop your subconscious ability to fight recoil. In the videos posted here of high level competitive shooters who have a significant amount of practice time on the gun they are shooting, you see the best recoil control. On the videos of the amateur shooters, or people testing a new gun or load that they are unfamiliar with, you see more of an inconsistent return from recoil.
modrecoil
03-06-2017, 03:15 PM
Grip force and follow through are everything when it comes to resetting the sights and gun back to where it was before the shot broke. If I stick a dummy round randomly in a magazine and run bill drills or some other kind of speed drill like this, you will see a massive push forward and down that would look like a flinch, but it's actually a post-ignition push to counter recoil. I've found this is something shooters develop subconsciously over time. As a side note, this is one reason ball and dummy drills are more of a new/struggling shooter drill and don't help advanced shooters. In fact, instructors that aren't familiar with the post ignition push can mis-diagnose advanced shooters as having a flinch.
The more time and rounds you have on your specific gun with your specific ammo, the more consistent your ability to control recoil and put the sights back to the same spot. If you change guns/calibers/loads frequently, I think it's much harder to develop your subconscious ability to fight recoil. In the videos posted here of high level competitive shooters who have a significant amount of practice time on the gun they are shooting, you see the best recoil control. On the videos of the amateur shooters, or people testing a new gun or load that they are unfamiliar with, you see more of an inconsistent return from recoil.
Maybe it shouldn't be, but the post-ignition push concept is a revelation for me. I'm so used to using Ball and Dummy drills to remediate new shooter problems that I conditioned myself to think all movement in relation to recoil management is bad. When I see it in my own shooting, I chalk it up to "it can happen to anyone", even at the intermediate-advanced levels. But it makes perfect sense. Great observation and awesome thread.
Mr_White
03-06-2017, 04:27 PM
Stupid question: can you go more into this wrist lock & lockup? I know you cant the other strong hand forward and keep the thumb pointed towards the target - actively correct? Do you also put tension or firmness into the firing hand too? Any mental cues or training tips for stiffly holding the gun in space?
I've always just held the gun out there but maybe there can be more to it than that.
It's just 'all the things people do to control recoil.'
The sum total of the tense, taught tendons in the fingers and hands, the wrists and forearms, the support hand wrist canted forward, the elbows rolled up and out, the upper body weight biased forward, is what I mean by 'lockup', though that isn't a word I use a lot.
Within that, people grip with different degrees of tension in the hands, or the strong and support hand relative to each other, they cant the support hand wrist different amounts, they roll elbows up and out different amounts, and have body weight biased forward different amounts.
A trend I feel like I've noticed is 'lighter gun/heavier trigger' (like Glocks) shooters leaning toward concepts of gripping the gun hard with both hands, and 'heavier gun/lighter trigger' (like 2011s) shooters leaning toward concepts of gripping the gun hard with the support hand and less with the strong hand. There is no way that applies universally, but it is a thing I think I keep noticing. I personally have an idea of gripping hard with both hands.
Those two basic patterns of grip force from the two hands are definitely worth trying out. So are different positions for either hand (how does the gun move when it fires?), different levels of force for either hand (how does the gun move when it fires?), arm/torso pressures (how does the gun move when it fires?), etc. The key is to notice how the gun moves when it fires ;) , and whether that's how you want it to move.
What you REALLY want is for the gun to move consistently back to the point of aim after it fires, whether that's a straight up-and-down path or not. Some people really prefer it if the gun moves straight up and down in recoil too - I do. The amount the muzzle flips is less important. Your subconscious learns pretty effectively to time the recoil impulses of any gun/ammo you get used to.
Maybe it shouldn't be, but the post-ignition push concept is a revelation for me. I'm so used to using Ball and Dummy drills to remediate new shooter problems that I conditioned myself to think all movement in relation to recoil management is bad. When I see it in my own shooting, I chalk it up to "it can happen to anyone", even at the intermediate-advanced levels. But it makes perfect sense. Great observation and awesome thread.
You can actually hinder the development of more advanced shooters with a ball and dummy drill if you make them think their post-ignition push movement is a flinch, and then they try to force themselves to stop doing it.
Gio, in your USPSA video it looks like you see a consistent, smooth up and down recoil on both close and long shots, with the front sight always returning to the same spot. Do you personally see that same kind of recoil when you shoot precision untimed groups?
If I'm shooting a precision/untimed group, i typically relax my grip strength to more of a firm handshake level and focus on a smooth steady trigger press. I'm by no means a bullseye expert, but I can typically manage 2-3" groups like this with a glock at 25 yds standing unsupported. I don't think I've ever video'd it, but I would imagine my recoil control is not on the same level as it is for a match or drill.
If I'm shooting a precision/untimed group, i typically relax my grip strength to more of a firm handshake level and focus on a smooth steady trigger press. I'm by no means a bullseye expert, but I can typically manage 2-3" groups like this with a glock at 25 yds standing unsupported. I don't think I've ever video'd it, but I would imagine my recoil control is not on the same level as it is for a match or drill.
To add to what Gio said, my 25 yard bullseye recoil is much more pronounced, to me at least, partly becasue I grip the gun slightly less, but mostly becasue I stand much more upright and don't lean into it as much.
Something about recoil I have noticed over the years is that the cycle of the different pistols makes the recoil feel/function differently. For example: A Glock 17 or 19, for me, it seems like the slide moves to the rear in a straight line and returns to battery the same way. A 5" 9mm 1911 or my CZ 75, it seems like the slide moves to the side not exactly in a figure 8, but similar. For years, competitors have been changing the recoil springs to different weights in order to "time" their pistols. I have a 4.25" Commander 9mm 1911 that functions like the Glocks.
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