Update: Roland Special Guy -

[RevolverRob]

I checked with Tom prior to starting this thread. I myself have sat on the fence for awhile before deciding to start this thread. The primary reason is because the drama llama visited the last thread we had on this and it got ugly, fast. I'm not a moderator here on PF, but I will politely ask everyone who participates in the following thread to be civil and I won't be afraid to use the notify moderator button and/or ask for this thing to be slammed shut the instant it gets ugly in here.

In fact, I'm going to do that right up front - P-F Mods, please slam this thread shut the instant it gets ugly in here. Because the last thread was a clusterfuck.

Here is a link to the latest update on Charles Pressburg the "Roland Special Guy" as I understand it - http://registerguard.com/rg/news/local/35292810-75/story.csp

Broad-stroking it for you:

Pressburg was arrested for shooting his brother-in-law in the leg. He was charged with:
negligently wounding another and fourth-degree assault, both misdemeanors. Pressburg had a blood-alcohol-content of 0.253% one hour after his arrest.

___

My brief discussion of this matter: Why does it matter to P-F and gun owning community? Because drinking and guns don't mix. We should all know this by now, but here is an excellent exemplar. Pressburg is a former Army Ranger, a Reserve Police Officer in New Mexico, and worked with/for Presscheck Consulting LTD in some capacity as a firearms trainer/consultant. And he made a very serious mistake, by combining large amounts of alcohol and handling a firearm. - This is an example of how an individual with solid credentials, who has undoubtedly handled firearms safely for 15+ years can do something really - fucking - stupid and end up hurting another. - Let this be an example to us all - to exercise great caution and car when handling firearms.

Let us NOT speculate about why Pressburg was carrying a gun while drinking. We all know it is wrong and he shouldn't have done it, he did, and will ultimately suffer the consequences of his action(s).

I will provide an anecdotal example of how I avoid these particular issues. A few weeks ago, I decided to have a sip of scotch after dinner. A sip soon turned into a second glass (12-year old Glenlivet is good). And I realized I was motivated to drink to impairment (it turns out severe impairment, but that's another issue entirely). With that realization, I set my glass down and went upstairs and promptly secured and checked the security on all of the guns in the house. With all of them locked down in the safe, I returned to my scotch. - Will the safe stop me from accessing a loaded firearm while impaired? No, it will not. BUT it is a layer of caution that has, for over a dozen years of occasional consumption of alcohol, helped prevent me from doing anything stupid (like have a temptation to handle a gun while drunk).

If you intend to be impaired exercise caution. If you don't trust yourself to drive, don't trust yourself with a firearm, either.

__

Additional thought(s): The failure of Pressburg to exercise caution has - no bearing on the potential performance of the "Roland Special" in any way shape or form. Sometimes people do stupid things, but still have good ideas. No one faults Thomas Edison for "inventing" the lightbulb, even though he was an asshole who occasionally electrocuted elephants.

It is my opinion, and mine alone that the media is presenting Pressburg in a fair light. Given that "the media" can't tell a Glock from an AK47, I have no problem believing, in entirety, that they have no idea what a "Roland Special" is. Nor are they reporting the arraignment, charging, or discussion of the incident in a particularly biased way, to paint Pressburg in a negative light, because the media hates guns. - I say this, because Pressburg's associates insinuated such a claim in their statement the day after Pressburg was arrested. That is silly and was an attempt by the company to deflect what is clearly a bad reality. An BAC that is 3-times the legal limit an hour after being arrested, means that Pressburg was severely inebriated and had no business handling a firearm. There are no excuses for this, Pressburg's reputation is irreparably tarnished by this mistake and it should be. I won't fault his business associates backing him up, but I also won't support them in attempt to misplace the blame anywhere but where it lies, with the person who consumed too much alcohol and then shot another person.

__

I posted this, not because I have a vendetta against Pressburg, Presscheck Consulting, the Roland Special, etc. Merely, because VoodooMan's thread piqued my interest and in following up on it, I discovered the nature of the charges and a bit more of what appears to be the reality of the situation. I unfortunately, could not post it in VM's thread, because of the fuckery that went on in there before. So, let's try to avoid the fuckery this time.

__

-Rob

[Luke]

Is the guys first name Roland?

[Nephrology]

An BAC that is 3-times the legal limit an hour after being arrested, means that Pressburg was severely inebriated and had no business handling a firearm.

It's funny because to me a BAL of 250 isn't really that drunk. I've seen patients blow BALs in the 300s - once over 400 - hours after being roomed.

Of course they usually can't be trusted with their own shoes, let alone a gun, so yeah. I agree. Alcohol and guns don't mix. This strikes me as a fairly uncontroversial statement.

[Rex G]

One can be stone cold sober, and manage to ND. I know about this. Let's just say one should not start a dry-fire session while seriously fatigued. "Safe direction/muzzle awareness" were, thankfully, being practiced. I now know that serious fatigue can have the equivalent effect of a few drinks. Dry-firing a revolver can be an excellent way to relax a sleepless brain, but, seriously, find another solution, or, perhaps, remove the firing pin from a dedicated dry-fire gun, or install a dummy cylinder, though those are very rare items.

I also learned to COUNT the cartridges, after extracting them, and then, count EACH EMPTY CHAMBER, before, dry-firing, because, well, complacency happens. Complacency can occur when not fatigued. I know this.

My name is Rex, and I have ND'ed.

[EVP]

So did he shoot him with a Roland special?

[DocGKR]

EVP--why does that matter?

[Lost River]

I don't know anything about the guy. I have no bones in this incident one way or another.

That said, I will put this out there.
I have discussed this with some folks here through telephone conversations and correspondence. I don't drink due to getting my bell rung pretty hard overseas, and subsequently having horrible migraines. Alcohol is one of those things that can trigger a migraine, so due to the fact that the type I get are beyond rough, I simply choose not to drink at all. That said, I have no issue with people who do, responsibly.

The problem with working and drinking overseas, is that you never knew when you would need a firearm immediately, and since the insurgents never made appointments before attacks, I always thought it was stupid and irresponsible to drink while downrange if you were in certain roles, with certain responsibilities, like protecting VIPs.

Now with that, the alcohol side of things. Obviously playing with guns while drunk is stupid. However, I don't know a single human being (myself included) who does not do stupid things every once in a while. Usually they don't bite us in the ass. Sometimes they do.

It is kind of like DUIs. I have arrested a lot of drunk drivers, and I think it is one of the stupidest, and potentially deadliest things a person can do in the civilian world, with far reaching consequences.

That said, I normally looked at a person's history, and determined a course of action from there. For a person who has been driving for a couple/few decades, a one time DUI incident, coupled with a record of responsible driving, indicates to me an otherwise normal and responsible person who simply made a bad call/thinking error, possibly fueled by many outside factors. Those one timers I normally treated with kid gloves, as long as someone was not hurt.

The flip side is the guy with 3, 4 ,6 DUIs in 20 years, with a long track record of shitty/irresponsible driving. That indicates to me a selfish prick who does not give a shit about the damage he does. That type of person received no favors or courtesies from me.

The reason I say that is this:

If the Roland Special guy does not have a history of irresponsible behavior, or alcohol related incidents, then perhaps we might chalk this up to a phenomenally stupid thinking error/lapse in judgement. Lets get real, many of us do dumb things now and then that we simply get lucky and nothing comes of it.

Just food for thought, as none of us have holes in our palms.

[GardoneVT]

Given that none of us commenting yet were there,and our information is filtered through biased lenses, there's little chance of productive dialogue at this time.

I vote we make info about this case read-only until properly adjudicated in court. The place for discussion by outsiders is after a verdict is rendered,not before.

[BJJ]

I am very sorry to hear about this. I have listened to a lot of Chuck's opinions about things on the Primary and Secondary modcast. I have great respect for his service and experience. This is a real shame after such a stellar military career.

[DocGKR]

As I stated previously, I am still failing to see why an unfortunate accident that occurred in a private residence has people so irritated, why it has anything to do with LEOSA-HR218 or CCW, and why it has generated national press attention instead of brief notice in the back of the local paper.

Yes, alcohol and firearms are a bad mix. But given the totality of the circumstances leading up to this incident, NONE of which has fully and accurately been described in the media, I can understand how it occurred. That does not mean I condone it. Rather than publicly excoriating an honorable man I have known for nearly two decades, I personally pray this former warrior and his family gets help to heal from the accumulated physical and psychic damage from multiple hard years of service to our Nation.

While I have never been a Reserve at Lake Arthur PD, I know several people who are. While I have some reservations about the overall situation there, for the specific individuals I know, their Lake Arthur PD Reserve service has nothing to do with some of the spurious comments that have been made about getting weapons on agency letterhead or other such nonsense; it has a lot to do with using particular well earned skill-sets to assist other agencies in completing difficult assignments. Perhaps others involved in the program there have different motivations, but I do not have direct knowledge of that.

In short, I choose compassion and wish the best for all involved in this sad event. Some good advice has been given above, most folks should likely refrain from speculation and spurious comments until after a resolution has been adjudicated...

[voodoo_man]

It's funny because to me a BAL of 250 isn't really that drunk. I've seen patients blow BALs in the 300s - once over 400 - hours after being roomed.

Of course they usually can't be trusted with their own shoes, let alone a gun, so yeah. I agree. Alcohol and guns don't mix. This strikes me as a fairly uncontroversial statement.

If you are too intoxicated to drive you are probably too intoxicated to reasonably use a firearm.

Not to say it's not possible but you've got an uphill battle in court.

[TAZ]

The situation sux big balls. Hope the guy who was shot isn't injured too badly and recovers fully. Hope the shooter and his family can get back to as normal a life as possible.

Everyone at some point plays stupid games and wins a stupid prize.

This should be a very good reminder to all of us who are around firearms on a routine basis that alcohol and guns NEVER mix.

[voodoo_man]

As I stated previously, I am still failing to see why an unfortunate accident that occurred in a private residence has people so irritated, why it has anything to do with LEOSA-HR218 or CCW, and why it has generated national press attention instead of brief notice in the back of the local paper.

Yes, alcohol and firearms are a bad mix. But given the totality of the circumstances leading up to this incident, NONE of which has fully and accurately been described in the media, I can understand how it occurred. That does not mean I condone it. Rather than publicly excoriating an honorable man I have known for nearly two decades, I personally pray this former warrior and his family gets help to heal from the accumulated physical and psychic damage from multiple hard years of service to our Nation.

While I have never been a Reserve at Lake Arthur PD, I know several people who are. While I have some reservations about the overall situation there, for the specific individuals I know, their Lake Arthur PD Reserve service has nothing to do with some of the spurious comments that have been made about getting weapons on agency letterhead or other such nonsense; it has a lot to do with using particular well earned skill-sets to assist other agencies in completing difficult assignments. Perhaps others involved in the program there have different motivations, but I do not have direct knowledge of that.

In short, I choose compassion and wish the best for all involved in this sad event. Some good advice has been given above, most folks should likely refrain from speculation and spurious comments until after a resolution has been adjudicated...

There are some in LE that are afflicted by the "I have do something" syndrome. They will go out of their way to find something they can do instead of doing what they should do, which is nothing.

I've been to classes where people have shot themselves (http://www.vdmsr.com/2013/09/aar-crtc-advanced-tactical-rifle-bennie.html) during training. LE didn't even come out, they said that since it happened on private property and since there was about a dozen LE witnesses and no one was seriously hurt - quick hospital trip and only a bruised ego later - class continued without anyone charged.

LE is its own worst enemy at times.

[Hambo]

"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone..."

I've been drunk plenty of times, and some of those times I did some really stupid, really bad, or really irresponsible stuff. I've got nothing to say about this guy.

[Nephrology]

Just food for thought, as none of us have holes in our palms.

I think the "love the sinner, hate the sin" approach is a good one to take in all arenas of life. There but for the grace of God go I and all that.


If you are too intoxicated to drive you are probably too intoxicated to reasonably use a firearm.

Not to say it's not possible but you've got an uphill battle in court.

Never disagreed, my initial statement was mostly a tongue-in-cheek aside.

[LittleLebowski]

Having been shot in an ND, I feel like this is a reminder about safety and after that, none of our business. I certainly didn't go on an online jihad against the guy that shot me and I personally made sure he wasn't charged.

[Casual Friday]

As I stated previously, I am still failing to see why an unfortunate accident that occurred in a private residence has people so irritated, why it has anything to do with LEOSA-HR218 or CCW, and why it has generated national press attention instead of brief notice in the back of the local paper.

I'm under the impression that this guy is fairly well liked in the industry, and there have been mutterings outside of PF that people are wanting to bury it quickly rather than discuss it like it would be if it was Yeager or Instructor Zero. Not saying that's the case, just how some people are seeing it. I can't say I disagree with the idea that if it were someone less popular that it would be open season.

[JHC]

As I stated previously, I am still failing to see why an unfortunate accident that occurred in a private residence has people so irritated, why it has anything to do with LEOSA-HR218 or CCW, and why it has generated national press attention instead of brief notice in the back of the local paper.

Yes, alcohol and firearms are a bad mix. But given the totality of the circumstances leading up to this incident, NONE of which has fully and accurately been described in the media, I can understand how it occurred. That does not mean I condone it. Rather than publicly excoriating an honorable man I have known for nearly two decades, I personally pray this former warrior and his family gets help to heal from the accumulated physical and psychic damage from multiple hard years of service to our Nation.

While I have never been a Reserve at Lake Arthur PD, I know several people who are. While I have some reservations about the overall situation there, for the specific individuals I know, their Lake Arthur PD Reserve service has nothing to do with some of the spurious comments that have been made about getting weapons on agency letterhead or other such nonsense; it has a lot to do with using particular well earned skill-sets to assist other agencies in completing difficult assignments. Perhaps others involved in the program there have different motivations, but I do not have direct knowledge of that.

In short, I choose compassion and wish the best for all involved in this sad event. Some good advice has been given above, most folks should likely refrain from speculation and spurious comments until after a resolution has been adjudicated...

+1. Pressburg's rep is not diminished in the least to me. Shit happens.

[Tamara]

I will provide an anecdotal example of how I avoid these particular issues. A few weeks ago, I decided to have a sip of scotch after dinner. A sip soon turned into a second glass (12-year old Glenlivet is good). And I realized I was motivated to drink to impairment (it turns out severe impairment, but that's another issue entirely). With that realization, I set my glass down and went upstairs and promptly secured and checked the security on all of the guns in the house. With all of them locked down in the safe, I returned to my scotch. - Will the safe stop me from accessing a loaded firearm while impaired? No, it will not. BUT it is a layer of caution that has, for over a dozen years of occasional consumption of alcohol, helped prevent me from doing anything stupid (like have a temptation to handle a gun while drunk).

If going somewhere with the intention of drinking, then no, I do not carry a firearm. That's what designated drivers are for.

I will note, however, that if I'm home or at a friend's place and One Beer starts to turn into Three or Six, then that's when the gun stays in the holster. I would rather sleep in my jeans on top of a holstered sidearm than trust buzzed Tamara to find a real safe place (I'm sure) for the pistol and then safely and competently place it there. My gun isn't hurting anybody in the holster, and so my inclination is to just leave it alone there and not go doing any administrative weapons-handling.

[voodoo_man]

Having been shot in an ND, I feel like this is a reminder about safety and after that, none of our business. I certainly didn't go on an online jihad against the guy that shot me and I personally made sure he wasn't charged.

Have another you like whore.

[JSGlock34]

Can someone post links to the national news coverage? I haven't seen anything in national media outlets (and what little I've found appears to simply repeat the local coverage). From my optic, SoldierSystems posting the B.E. Meyers press release has highlighted this incident far more than the limited media coverage.

[DocGKR]

You mean like US News and World Report: https://www.usnews.com/news/oregon/articles/2017-02-13/reserve-officer-from-new-mexico-arrested-in-oregon-shooting

[JSGlock34]

Like I said, what little I've found appears to simply repeat the local coverage. The US News and World Report Article is simply repeating the local paper coverage (Register Guard, which is cited), which was picked up by the Associated Press.

[RevolverRob]

As I stated previously, I am still failing to see why an unfortunate accident that occurred in a private residence has people so irritated, why it has anything to do with LEOSA-HR218 or CCW, and why it has generated national press attention instead of brief notice in the back of the local paper.

Because, police officers should be and often are held to a higher level of public accountability than the general public.

I understand that the individual in question has a stellar reputation and is personally known to you. So I'm not seeking to demean him or his family and friends. I'm merely point out why this piece has gotten broader coverage than anticipated.

[DocGKR]

As Sir Robert Peel cogently stated: "The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."

[Ed L]

Having been shot in an ND, I feel like this is a reminder about safety and after that, none of our business. I certainly didn't go on an online jihad against the guy that shot me and I personally made sure he wasn't charged.

If it was someone who had a long history of doing dangerous and stupid things it would not be a surprise.

People who are admired for their skill and proficiency have accidents like this to remind the rest of us that they are still mortal--and if it can happen to them it can happen to us.

To me this is a lesson in never letting your guard down when it comes to handling firearms--especially when you do it enough that it seems routine.

Same for backing up with cars. Most of us have done it a million times, but how many times have you heard the blare of a horn that makes you slam on your brakes, only to remind you that you were getting complacent or careless--if even for a second. Just think, instead of a car with a horn that you almost backed into it could have been a kid.

Avoiding alcohol and firearms at the same time goes without saying. It just has to happen one time--which is what it did in this case.

The bottom line is here is someone who has had a very distinguished career, who is known to some of us, who almost none of us could equal, and I am sure he would have rather led a low key life. But now his name and life made public in a very negative way.

Here is another thing, that is a little ugly. This guy is the type of guy that many people dream of being, but very, very few could. I know a lot of people who would give their left and right nuts ot be him. So when he suffers a firearm related misfortune due to whatever reason, in some ways it can make some people feel better about themselves--because, hey, they would never do that.

On a personal, morbid note, when I hear that someone dies--especially someone in my age range or younger, I usually ask what happened. When I hear that it is due to something that would I am not susceptible to , like a smoking related cancer, death from heavy drinking, or a motorcycle accident, I breath a secret sigh of relief. Maybe some people are doing the same thing in this case.

[HCM]

"Roland" has done, and sacrificed, a lot for this country, far more than most. There is a Human cost associated with this no matter who you are. I've seen people "crash and burn" over far less.

I hope and pray: 1) The ND victim recover; 2) "Roland" get what ever help he needs; 3) his family /relationships survive this.

[voodoo_man]

As Sir Robert Peel cogently stated: "The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence."

If only that was reality

[AMC]

I am reminded of why guys like Scott Reitz are safety Nazis, and why he says HE is "the most dangerous guy on the range". How many decades shooting and handling the Roscoe, without an ND? In that spirit, let us all recommit to rigorous safety procedures.

[OnionsAndDragons]

If only that was reality

Thank you for that, VDM.

As to Roland, I hope things work out for him in a non-catastrophic manner. He always amuses me and people whose opinions I value have regard for him, so I'll take that as a clue and leave there. Shit happens, good people do dumb stuff for all sorts of reasons.

[warpedcamshaft]

"Roland" once told a story on a P&S modcast about illegally carrying a firearm at a bar ("riding dirty", as he called it), and ditching his firearm in the bushes out back when the police were called about an unrelated incident at the bar.

That story made me worry for him a little bit...

I wish him the best and hope he comes out alright. Love hearing his thoughts and podcasts.

[NerdAlert]

So did he shoot him with a Roland special?

It's 1 AM. It's slow at work. I just ND'd the like button, which happens all the time to me but I don't usually feel the need to point it out. That post isn't really germane to the discussion and I did not mean to like it. That is all. [emoji52]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Odin Bravo One]

Is the guys first name Roland?


So did he shoot him with a Roland special?

Brilliant.

Nice to see some things here haven't changed.

[Olim9]

Wait...this IS "Roland Deschain"? The guy who came up with the Roland Special? The guy on Primary & Secondary? The guy that runs Press Check consulting?

For some time, I've wondered how he actually looked. Damn shame this is how we find out. Come to think of it, is this the reason why I've seen so many of P&S's videos get deleted off Youtube?

[olstyn]

If you intend to be impaired exercise caution. If you don't trust yourself to drive, don't trust yourself with a firearm, either.

Yup. Not sure how it works in other states, but here in MN, the legal limit to drive is .08. The legal limit to carry is .04, and while I'm fairly certain that I can judge when I should or shouldn't be driving (1-2 beers with food, no problem; more than that, or on an empty stomach = nope, wait for the liver do its thing), I'm under no delusion that I can accurately tell when I've exceeded .04, so if I'm carrying, the most I'll drink is a small sip if a friend tells me that something is awesome and I have to try it, and if I intend on drinking, I just don't carry. This includes at home; before I start drinking, the carry gun comes off. I don't bother with RR's careful check that all firearms are locked up first, but I'm certainly not handling them after the drinking starts.

As to the incident in question, I don't have much to say beyond the obvious: the guy made a serious mistake which should serve as a reminder to us all about what can happen when our decision-making process goes wrong. As to what consequences that mistake should have for him, I'm not sure. Hopefully the relevant laws make sense and the courts exercise logic and compassion as appropriate.

[Tamara]

Yup. Not sure how it works in other states, but here in MN, the legal limit to drive is .08. The legal limit to carry is .04...

In Indiana, public intoxication is a class B misdemeanor (https://iga.in.gov/static-documents/9/b/b/4/9bb4a9c1/TITLE7.1_AR5_ch1.pdf) if the intoxicated person:

Endangers their own life,
Endangers another's life,
Breaches the peace, or is in imminent danger of breaching the peace, or
Harasses, alarms, or annoys another person.

These conditions pertain whether you're carrying a gun or not. There's no special "intoxicated while carrying" law in this state. It is also not against the law in this state to get as filthy as you want as long as you are not in public.

[EVP]

Brilliant.

Nice to see some things here haven't changed.


I apologize that my comment was not exactly tasteful or meaningful especially to those of you who call him a friend or has mentored you.


In past incidents that the news is involved in usually the gun/item is listed. Also usually some details emerge like "thought safety was engaged" "cleaning accident" etc. There are whole articles online and in national publications about the "Roland special" and " Roland" seems to be almost this mythical character. The fad with the "Roland special" was/is at its highest in the online community. Curiosity I guess.


After reading the background info and other news reports online i see how my comment would bother some so again I apologize for how it came across for those that personally know him.

[Lon]

That post isn't really germane to the discussion and I did not mean to like it. That is all. [emoji52]


14309

[SecondsCount]

Having been shot in an ND, I feel like this is a reminder about safety and after that, none of our business. I certainly didn't go on an online jihad against the guy that shot me and I personally made sure he wasn't charged.

I took it as a reminder as well.

There have been a couple times I have done something wrong when handling a firearm. Due to the fact that I had broken only one of the three rules, the holes were put in places that did not harm anyone.

As far as drinking and guns are concerned- I agree that if alcohol impairs your judgment or abilities, then you probably should keep anything dangerous out of reach until you sober up. That includes power tools, guns, automobiles....

[XXXsilverXXX]

I think this just shows a valuable lesson to the rest of us. But we should not exclude other things that can impair our Judgement, certain medications can do this as well, and also spiking a high fever.

[Odin Bravo One]

I apologize that my comment was not exactly tasteful or meaningful especially to those of you who call him a friend or has mentored you.


In past incidents that the news is involved in usually the gun/item is listed. Also usually some details emerge like "thought safety was engaged" "cleaning accident" etc. There are whole articles online and in national publications about the "Roland special" and " Roland" seems to be almost this mythical character. The fad with the "Roland special" was/is at its highest in the online community. Curiosity I guess.


After reading the background info and other news reports online i see how my comment would bother some so again I apologize for how it came across for those that personally know him.

It should bother anyone over the age of 13. Whether the person is known to anyone or not is irrelevant.

Your comment didn't offend me, and yours wasn't the only one that provided negative value to the discussion.

What bothers me is that I rarely have the time to participate in discussions here as it is, and that was the best input elements of our membership were capable of providing.

[Nephrology]

It should bother anyone over the age of 13. Whether the person is known to anyone or not is irrelevant.

Your comment didn't offend me, and yours wasn't the only one that provided negative value to the discussion.

What bothers me is that I rarely have the time to participate in discussions here as it is, and that was the best input elements of our membership were capable of providing.

What do you believe would be a more productive way to discuss this? This is a sincere question, as I am not entirely certain I understand your concern.

Truthfully, I don't know the guy and I don't really have any strong feelings about him one way or the other. I don't think his mistake is a reflection of his character or integrity, but I also think most everyone would agree that heavy drinking and firearms are a bad combination. I don't think I've see anyone condemn him as a person, but admittedly I haven't read this thread from cover to cover.

Genuinely want to hear your perspective as I consider you & your input to be invaluable to this forum. Would love to know what you think we are collectively missing in this discussion as I am sure it will teach me something worth learning.

[Nephrology]

Sean is more than capable of speaking for himself, but it's my inderstanding that he's referring to two specific posts .

Oh, if this is the case, then, yeah, that makes total sense. Not how I understood it.

[Luke]

Sean is more than capable of speaking for himself, but it's my inderstanding that he's referring to two specific posts (the ones he quoted on the previous page). One asked if Roland was they guy's real name -- indicating that the poster didn't even bother to read the linked article in this thread or the one from the previous thread -- or even the OP of this thread -- all of which reported his real name. The other was a poster asking if the shot was fired from a "Roland Special". If someone genuinely thinks that either of those questions are productive AT ALL, I really don't know what to say.


Hope this posts clears up what I meant and doesn't come off bad again.





I did not click on this link. I did vaguely follow the other thread until it was closed. I picked up on this guy has no "Roland" in his name but from what I've gathered from posters is the originator of the "Roland special", of which I always assumed by my own thought and from context clues I gathered from other talking about the gun that it was named after a man named Roland.

The comment was not only serious but slightly tongue in cheek made to come off as I don't really care about him shooting his buddy, I just want to know where the name came from.


I genuinely don't care if this dude shot his buddy while he was seriously wasted or not. I've done some super messed up stuff when I was really drunk. I've never had a gun when I was that drunk so I cannot comment on wether I'd shoot my buddy or not. I probably would though.

It's a shame it happened, but other than that, idk why we are still talking about it. Sorry for the issues I have called.

[Luke]

Brilliant.

Nice to see some things here haven't changed.


Dude gets drunk and pops his buddy? What did you expect we say?

[JAD]

Something like "I'm socially retarded" but using different words.

[bravo7]

This thread has run its course.

[Robinson]

Dude gets drunk and pops his buddy? What did you expect we say?

The story is probably deeper than the accident and the alcohol level. The story most of us don't see and probably won't, is the life of a man who has poured himself out completely -- probably over the course of many deployments -- in the recent wars. The intensity of those deployments, the friends lost, constant tempo and probably some of his own blood spent on our -- on my -- behalf.

Shitty comments may be expected when the topic is about some shitty person. I don't think that is the case here. I hope his family survives and heals from this.

[Luke]

The story is probably deeper than the accident and the alcohol level. The story most of us don't see and probably won't, is the life of a man who has poured himself out completely -- probably over the course of many deployments -- in the recent wars. The intensity of those deployments, the friends lost, constant tempo and probably some of his own blood spent on our -- on my -- behalf.

Shitty comments may be expected when the topic is about some shitty person. I don't think that is the case here. I hope his family survives and heals from this.


From my mother to the pope my comments would not change no matter who shot who.

[DocGKR]

Then that is truly unfortunate...

[Aray]

Dude gets drunk and pops his buddy? What did you expect we say?

Nothing if it's not constructive.

[JHC]

From my mother to the pope my comments would not change no matter who shot who.

I understand. Understand that a lot of us have a code about the good guys. The really hung it out there good guys. And when misfortune strikes them we treat them differently than lifetime ner'do wells. Its a double standard. Of course. Why not?

[TGS]

From the Code of Conduct:


We are here to discuss ideas, not personalities.

In the past I remember these being interpreted/enforced as, "We're here to discuss ideas, not people."

I propose that this CoC rule be pulled from it's current position in the list and created as it's own rule, while delineating that it apply to any person and not just in the context of interforum warfare. Obvious exception's (for starters) being 1) a person's tactics/decision-making used in a self-defense shooting, training or competition; 2) their training curriculum, coursework, or company, 3) good wishes farewell, to get better, condolences, or paying respects.

I have no ties to Pressberg, don't even know who he is, and don't see that he deserves any sort of special treatment or protection. I just see this as an issue with a necessary solution. I don't see how discussing this man's life, nor any man's personal life, is in anyway productive or beneficial to the forum. I think this concept of decency applies to most human beings, and if adopted by our community will make P-F.com great again.

(not that it isn't great to begin with, it's just an attempt at humor).

[LittleLebowski]

I have no ties to Pressberg, don't even know who he is, and don't see that he deserves any sort of special treatment or protection. I just see this as an issue with a necessary solution. I don't see how discussing this man's life, nor any man's personal life, is in anyway productive or beneficial to the forum.


Concur.