Scanning before reholstering

[KravPirate]

What is the thought on looking behind you to the left and right before reholstering? I understand the concept of why it's done but the technique looks very odd when I see folks implementing it. Another question, what are your thoughts on looking vs. not looking at your holster during the reholstering process?

[JV_]

What is the thought on looking behind you to the left and right before reholstering?

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1845-Do-you-quot-scan-and-assess-quot-after-each-drill&highlight=scanning%5C



Another question, what are your thoughts on looking vs. not looking at your holster during the reholstering process?I make a point to look in my holster, I want to make certain it's clear of anything that can snag on my trigger.

What bothers me is seeing people who don't look, and then just jam the gun in there .. letting go at the first sign of contact with the holster.

[Jay Cunningham]

Well, first I'll put the disclaimer out that one-size-does-not-fit all. Okay, now that's out of the way, so onto a thought or two:

Generally speaking the "scan and assess" (i.e. looking behind you to the left and right before holstering) is widely taught by shooting instructors as a tactic to mitigate getting ambushed or blindsided by additional threats after you dealt with the problem directly in front. So it's re-establishing situational awareness after your attention was focused.

It can be implemented numerous ways, from just moving the head, to moving the torso, to pivoting the entire body 360 degrees. There's just as much debate as to the attitude the firearm should be in as there is in the scan technique itself. Suffice to say, as long as you are maintaining your finger outside of the trigger guard in a strong register position on the frame, and as long as your muzzle isn't covering something that you're unwilling to shoot, it's probably all good.

Now one thing I will say is that during training, this can turn into a real cursory "glance left/right" that is just going through the motions. Some instructors will call you on it, and some don't really seem to care. Some trainers are really only concerned with a good left/right 180 scan, but I *think* that may come from a background where teams are used to covering sectors or zones. Some instructors will hold up fingers or a card with a number on it with the expectation that you will actually *look* instead of just moving your head. This isn't a bad thought, but can turn into a game in and of itself. Hey, there's no perfect answer.

I am a fan of looking at the holster when the gun goes in, if it's reasonable to do so.

[KravPirate]

Thanks JV! Interesting. I feel like it is a training routine that might not necessarily work the way it was intended in a real situation. I do it now because that is what I was taught but I am not so sure I would do it that same way if I had just engaged an attacker. It may be a training routine for me that should be broken.

[TCinVA]

I've always wondered about whether or not the emphasis some place on the scan and asses on the square range makes any practical difference in how people perform in the real world.

Say we have a guy who doesn't typically do a scan and asses after he engages a target...if we drop him into an unknown environment with at least one person there that is trying to kill him, does that mean he is going to holster up really fast without looking for additional threats when he is finished engaging the first threat? What if we immediately present him with multiple threats? Will that change his behavior? Does teaching a routine of looking around once a string of fire is over translate into an individual who is more able to break focus on the dude they just shot to the ground (especially if this is their first time performing such an act) and look for more bad guys in need of shooting? Does the desire to keep living naturally prompt someone who has determined that a particular threat is finished (which is a discussion that could probably fill volumes) to look for more threats to one's existence?

Do people behave differently in FOF scenarios than they do on range drills in this respect?

[Joseph B.]

I personally teach the scan, and my reasons behind it are many but the primary issue is to regain situational awareness. Being situational aware for your surroundings is a must, once you get locked into a shooting (tunnel vision, focused on shooting BG to the ground, etc). You have to break away from the focus on dealing with the threat and regain the situational awareness. A simple turn of the head left than right is not sufficient IMO, I teach the following:

Weapon on the threat, step back “bladed” and scan for threats and cover, step back the same way with other leg scan for threats and cover. Move to good cover position where you have eyes on threat and a good observation point of your environment, then holster if the situation allows.

[Wheeler]

We used to play a game a some of the matches with a member of this forum who shall remain unnamed in order to protect the guilty. Long and short he made it a point to reload after finishing a stage and would then assume either a low ready or retention position and scan about 270 degrees. We would take positions of cover, using either range props or other people and assume an empty handed stance while mimicing holding a gun to see if he would pick us up. It's amazing how quickly going through the motions gets pointed out.

Personally I holser without looking but, the gun is all the way in the holster before I give up positive control. If my cover garment becomes an issue then I'll look and clear the garment, then reholster. Different strokes for different folks and all that.

[GJM]

Bill Rogers made a point of saying how much he disliked scanning where the muzzle followed the eyes left and right. Besides the point made in the post above, about scanning by rote and not seeing things, he thinks the muzzle going left and right is slower. He advocates keeping the muzzle depressed in an extended confirmed ready so you can see the battlefield, so you aren't covering things you shouldn't be, and because you are faster from that position.

[41magfan]

As it is with most things, context and relevance often makes things easier to understand;

Way back in the day - early 80’s let’s say - instructor/trainers were seeing too many officers holstering their handguns as a default action when they were through firing pre-determined strings of fire. Back in the day, that’s all there was – predetermined courses of fire with predetermined strings. In an honest effort to rectify this, trainers/instructors began teaching scanning before holstering as a natural step in getting that pre-programmed response out of their system. Once we got that “habit” out of the generation effected, dynamic training with some semblance of practicality, kept it from being a problem for the next generation. But, that didn’t stop people from continuing to teach it out of some proper context ….. and so it continues.

Before you become too critical of this default malady of holstering without conscious thought – do some video critiquing of anyone who shoots a lot of repetitive drills with an emphasis on time. You’ll find just about ALL of them – at the conclusion of the drill - do something totally mindless with no conscious thought. It may not be holstering the gun, but it’s just as much a default action. The more structured your shooting and training is, the more your “habits” become ingrained, be they beneficial, harmful or benign.

The blind reholstering thing was taught as a skill born of necessity. COPS find themselves drawing, covering and pointing their sidearms way out of proportion to actually firing them. When their ends up being no justification for shooting - but an immediate need to go to hands - you'd better be able to put that thing away quickly and safely or you're going to be way behind the curve .... been there, done that. There's plenty of ugly dash-cam video out there showing officers struggling to reholster their guns so they could perform some empty hand tasks. Everything to do with handling a gun is a skill and must be done as proficiently as possible.

[TGS]

I currently carry AIWB with a hammered gun and never look at my holster as I reholster. My thumb is on the hammer, and I pull my cover garment/shirt well clear of the holster. No undershirt to worry about most of the time. I figure that's fine.

When I carried hip/behind the hip, I didn't look at the holster either.

This, of course, is unless I feel something askew. The amount of times I've had to look at my AIWB holster could probably be counted on my fingers. Hip/Behind the hip, and it seemed much more common for my undershirt to come untucked (if I was wearing one) and get in the way, necessitating I look at it to get stuff figured out.

So, after I come to a hard break, decock and place my thumb on the hammer, the gun goes in the holster. Not jamming it in there, but with my thumb on the hammer I'm not too worried.

I do look when carrying my Walther PPS. It has a striker indicator that will tell me if the trigger is moving, but it's nowhere near as positive as a hammer.

[SweetScienceOfShooting]

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1845-Do-you-quot-scan-and-assess-quot-after-each-drill&highlight=scanning%5C


I make a point to look in my holster, I want to make certain it's clear of anything that can snag on my trigger.

What bothers me is seeing people who don't look, and then just jam the gun in there .. letting go at the first sign of contact with the holster.

+1

Someone from my agency shot himself while reholstering into the old Blackhawk Serpa with the high sidewalls. The holster was canted outward when he wore it due to his "build". During training, he went to reholster and the tip of the sidewall got in the triggerguard. This easily could have been prevented by a quick glance at the holster.

IME from the inservice training I have received, the instructors are generally of the opinion that you should NEVER look at the holster while reholstering. Their reasoning behind this is so you don't take your eyes off the subject. IMO it is not overly risky to take a second to glance at your holster since we generally work in at least a 2 person contact/cover team if not even more backup around. If I reholster so I can go hands on with handcuffs, etc. my backup will still have a weapon out if needed. My everyday holster is a Galco leather FBI canted OWB holster w/ a thumb break retention strap worn at 4 o'clock. It tends to shift on the belt while drawing and the strap can also get in the way. I got tired of doing a blind reholster since I ended up practically muzzle sweeping myself each time. Now if you're off duty, working solo, or a regular CCW this situation may not be applicable to you.

[JDM]

+1

My everyday holster is a Galco leather FBI canted OWB holster w/ a thumb break retention strap worn at 4 o'clock. It tends to shift on the belt while drawing and the strap can also get in the way.


You need a new holster.

[Chuck Haggard]

You need a new holster.


Word!


Seriously dude, you need a different holster.

[SweetScienceOfShooting]

I hear you loud and clear. Believe, I am not proud of the holster, but the job requires that authorized holsters have a retention device. Until recently the only holsters that were issued were the Galco that I use, a similar DeSantis holster, and the Blackhawk Serpa. Pretty slim pickings. The choices have recently been expanded so I am currently considering a Safariland ALS and a Galco IWB. So far the new Galco doesn't shift since it is IWB, but it still has a thumbreak retention strap. The Safailand ALS has a nice, quick retention system but on me it sits far off my belt and prints pretty badly with an untucked polo. It prints a little less if I move it to 4:30 or 5:00.

[TGS]

I hear you loud and clear. Believe, I am not proud of the holster, but the job requires that authorized holsters have a retention device. Until recently the only holsters that were issued were the Galco that I use, a similar DeSantis holster, and the Blackhawk Serpa. Pretty slim pickings. The choices have recently been expanded so I am currently considering a Safariland ALS and a Galco IWB. So far the new Galco doesn't shift since it is IWB, but it still has a thumbreak retention strap. The Safailand ALS has a nice, quick retention system but on me it sits far off my belt and prints pretty badly with an untucked polo. It prints a little less if I move it to 4:30 or 5:00.

Why is the holster shifting to begin with?

[DrFlsGood]

Why is the holster shifting to begin with?
I learned in one of my Sig classes that when reholstering to place your thumb on the hammer, which allows you to feel if there is any motion to "recock" by inadvertent trigger movement.

one slight varient which hasn't lead to any AD's in reholstering

[SweetScienceOfShooting]

Why is the holster shifting to begin with?

On my Galco holster, there is about a 4.5" space between the two belt loops, which are 1.5" wide. I usually wear a 1.25" wide belt, hook through the rear belt loop of the holster, hook through the belt loop of my pants, which typically are set around 3:00, then finally through the forward belt loop of the holster. When I practice dry fire draws, the holster shifts forward along the belt from about 4:30 to almost 3:00. I have to shift the holster back every couple of draws. I experimented with one of my wider belts tonight which was nylon and 1.5" wide. It fit more snugly with the belt loops on the holster and I only had to shift the holster back every 7 or 8 draws. I am usually satisfied with the holster during every day use since it fits snug to the hip and conceals well. However, it is more difficult to work with during training when I have to draw several times.

[tac-safe]

It's important to scan your surroundings to ensure no more targets are presented. I would hate to re-holster only to see more threats behind me. Scanning does look a little robotish, but the technique is well needed. As for looking down at my holster, in my opinion that's a bad thing. You always want to keep your eyes on the threat. Re-holstering should be second nature...smooth.

Be Safe!

[JDM]

It's important to scan your surroundings to ensure no more targets are presented. I would hate to re-holster only to see more threats behind me. Scanning does look a little robotish, but the technique is well needed. As for looking down at my holster, in my opinion that's a bad thing. You always want to keep your eyes on the threat. Re-holstering should be second nature...smooth.

Be Safe!

Eyes on the threat? Why are you putting your gun away if there is still an active threat?

What about those of us who appendix carry? Looking into the holster mouth is a pretty dammed important step in the whole 'holstering without bleeding out' process.

[Jay Cunningham]

Just go to his website and I'm sure you'll find the answer in one of his articles.

I'm sure of it.

[TGS]

What about those of us who appendix carry? Looking into the holster mouth is a pretty dammed important step in the whole 'holstering without bleeding out' process.

Not if you use a hammered weapon, or if you're one of the chosen few who are worth enough to have a Glock Gadget.

[LittleLebowski]

Eyes on the threat? Why are you putting your gun away if there is still an active threat?

What about those of us who appendix carry? Looking into the holster mouth is a pretty dammed important step in the whole 'holstering without bleeding out' process.

More free advertising coming your way!

[JV_]

Not if you use a hammered weapon, or if you're one of the chosen few who are worth enough to have a Glock Gadget.

I looked with my P30 LEM and I look with my Gadget equipped Glocks.

[TGS]

I looked with my P30 LEM and I look with my Gadget equipped Glocks.

I'm not saying you don't.

[ToddG]

As for looking down at my holster, in my opinion that's a bad thing. You always want to keep your eyes on the threat. Re-holstering should be second nature...smooth.

Under what circumstance is a CHL holder going to need to holster so fast he cannot take the time to verify his holster is clear?

As BOM asked, why are you putting your gun away if you have a threat that needs "your eyes on" it?

I'm not advocating one way over the other (though I certainly teaching looking at the holster for aiwb, and any time the gun doesn't immediately find itself nestled warm and cozy on the first try). But I wouldn't put one iota of effort into learning a reholster technique. Self-inflicted GSWs from improper reholstering are probably the single most common serious firearms training injury. Why risk shooting yourself just to look smooth?

[PT Doc]

I've always thought working from the holster was comparable to a young high school guy fucking his girlfriend:

When it's time to pull it out, you better do so like your life depended on it.

Everyone is happier if you put it in nice and slow, and if you need to take a peek to find the hole, it's ok.

[Caboose]

I've always thought working from the holster was comparable to a young high school guy fucking his girlfriend:

When it's time to pull it out, you better do so like your life depended on it.

Everyone is happier if you put it in nice and slow, and if you need to take a peek to find the hole, it's ok.

Hella profound :D

[Aray]

I've always thought working from the holster was comparable to a young high school guy fucking his girlfriend:

When it's time to pull it out, you better do so like your life depended on it.

Everyone is happier if you put it in nice and slow, and if you need to take a peek to find the hole, it's ok.

I am so stealing that.

[muther_beetches]

my post-shooting to pre-tac reload ritual:

finger prepping trigger looking through the sights at target i just shot- determine whether or not the threat is gone (one of my biggest pet peeves is seeing people race off the target after their last shot)
if no, repeat shooting until yes.
if yes, finger off trigger, decock at extension, come back to high ready
search left, right, 360 if situationally allowable while simultaneously performing audible breathing.

do i do it all the time on the range? if alone, i make it a point to do it at least a few times so i'm at least situationally aware when i'm on the range by myself and i haven't forgotten to do it altogether, but it doesn't dominate my training time. other than that, its common sense/courtesy. if i run a dot torture, i'll do it at the end of each segment, but not after each shot within that segment. if i'm shooting with others on the line and under instruction, i don't do a full 360 after every iteration b/c it holds up training- if i'm done first, its a left and right and over the shoulder with my feet planted. if i'm finished last, its get ready for the next run. most important thing is to do it with what i feel is enough frequency that i'm not likely to forget it altogether in a real situation.