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View Full Version : Man goes berserk with hammer at mall.



Shellback
12-10-2011, 10:27 PM
When I read this article it really got me thinking about the scenario and what I would do if I was there for this incident. (http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111208/NEWS03/712099997) There is a lot of things that could've gone very wrong for someone had he turned the hammer on a shopper or mall employee.


Mayhem erupted when a man ran through the Fox Run Mall Thursday, smashing display cases and glass storefronts with a hammer as he babbled incoherently, police and witnesses said.

orionz06
12-10-2011, 10:49 PM
I just called a friend of mine in NH and he said they have been fighting for hammer registration for some years now. I think they might finally get it.


In all seriousness though, that is a really tough situation to consider. How do you handle something like that, especially if your only tools are a gun and a knife? What is justified if he is just vandalizing? Scary stuff.

JV_
12-10-2011, 10:51 PM
especially if your only tools are a gun and a knife?What tool would you rather have to deal with him?

orionz06
12-10-2011, 10:52 PM
Slightly misplaced cliche perhaps, but I would have a hard time wanting to deal with that issue, as a civilian.

Shellback
12-10-2011, 10:54 PM
In all seriousness though, that is a really tough situation to consider. How do you handle something like that, especially if your only tools are a gun and a knife? What is justified if he is just vandalizing? Scary stuff.

I've ran a bunch of different scenarios over in my head... I really don't think there's an easy answer if you're unfortunate enough to be near Captain Hammer's berserker mode. To be honest my initial thought was if my family was with me and his direction was headed towards us I'd use whatever force was necessary to protect my family.

orionz06
12-10-2011, 10:56 PM
If he approaches, yes, obvious solution. I guess I am hung up on the idea of him aimlessly wandering and me doing nothing while I have *a* solution. But in that scenario GTFO and getting a good description seems good enough.

JodyH
12-10-2011, 11:10 PM
I guess I am hung up on the idea of him aimlessly wandering and me doing nothing while I have *a* solution.
You have "a solution" in search of a problem, and that's the wrong way to approach it as a non-LEO.
Crazy guy smashing someone else's windows with a hammer... not a problem that I feel compelled to solve in any manner.
I'd secure my family and then possibly follow at a safe distance watching the circus.
If things changed and he became violent towards people, then it could possibly be a problem I might have a solution to.

orionz06
12-10-2011, 11:11 PM
Agree

JodyH
12-10-2011, 11:17 PM
I'm not even going "hands on" with someone over broken windows.
There's no way I'm going to wrestle around on broken glass with a crazy man.
I have enough problems without requiring stitches or contracting Hep or HIV.

Al T.
12-11-2011, 08:44 AM
Another point to consider is that mentally unstable folks don't respond well to pain. Having gone H2H with a few, you need lots of help.

And another vote for not getting involved in a property crime. He starts trying to hit folks? Different set of dynamics right there.

David Armstrong
12-11-2011, 01:57 PM
I just called a friend of mine in NH and he said they have been fighting for hammer registration for some years now. I think they might finally get it.


In all seriousness though, that is a really tough situation to consider. How do you handle something like that, especially if your only tools are a gun and a knife? What is justified if he is just vandalizing? Scary stuff.
Why would you want to handle it? Sure the guy was annoying and troubled, but nothing in the story indicates he was an immediate danger to anyone. Stay out of the way, take care of you and yours, let security/LE do their thing.

theblacknight
12-11-2011, 08:48 PM
A hammer is no less of a threat then a knife.

Plan:GTFO and don't get trapped in.

mscott327
12-11-2011, 09:16 PM
You have "a solution" in search of a problem, and that's the wrong way to approach it as a non-LEO.
Crazy guy smashing someone else's windows with a hammer... not a problem that I feel compelled to solve in any manner.
I'd secure my family and then possibly follow at a safe distance watching the circus.
If things changed and he became violent towards people, then it could possibly be a problem I might have a solution to.
I agree totally!

Nephrology
12-12-2011, 08:49 AM
Cell phone, 911.

Until he demonstrates the intent to inflict death or serious bodily harm upon myself or another innocent gun definitely stays where it is.

I've seen a lot of very mentally ill people do a lot of bizarre, aggressive, but not actually threatening things. Bipolar disorder, for example, often presents in many young people around the age of 19 with a manic episode that results in raving, delusion, and transient psychosis. These people aren't necessarily intentionally threatening or violent. Calling 911 and letting LEOs and EMTs do their job is the responsible thing to do here.

TR675
12-12-2011, 12:48 PM
I don't know about anyplace else, but my local mall - a pretty swanky place that seems to attract a lot of dirtbags - is filled with cops. Not mall cops, real cops.

That is the last place I would want to "get involved" with any sort of trouble. Hard to think of a scenario where I wouldn't be at risk from both the bad actor and twitchy first responders.

Kyle Reese
12-13-2011, 08:25 PM
A 7 day waiting period on all hammer sales is the obvious solution.