Training that has become a "Rule" or Dogma

[rsa-otc]

So our recent discussions has gotten me thinking, what training concepts have morphed in to a "Rule" of Survival "Dogma". For example; the Tuller Drill was developed to show that an aggressor with an impact weapon is dangerous at distances greater than contact. In some circles this has morphed into an iron clad 21 foot rule.

Another example would be taking a step one direction or another after shooting or reloading. When I was introduced to this training technique, it was proposed as a way to get your students to unglue their feet from the ground, to introduce motion. Since most LEO or Security firearms training is done from a static firing line of multiple shooters, the students seem to develop concrete shoes or their feet are glued to the ground. They don't want to move. This was deemed as a "Safe" way for the student not to just stand there and look at the target. This simple training technique seems to have a morphed into something it was never meant to be, a hard and fast survival skill, that taking 1 step either direction will do something for you.

What other training techniques can you think of that morphed into something they never were meant to be?

[Wheeler]

I think a lot of people either through training using the Bianchi barricade or through the misconception of IDPA and their use of cover think that most walls will stop bullets. I realize that most ranges use plastic barrels and plywood for ease of setup and tear-down. If we are looking at statistics we should be shooting while in the open, from behind the engine block or wheel of a vehicle, or from behind a bed. Most houses these days are 2x4 or 2x6 construction with no insulation in the interior wall and 1/2" drywall on both sides. That's concealment, not cover.

Another thing that IDPA stresses is moving to cover to perform a reload. My preference is to move to cover while performing a reload.

I understand IDPA is not training. Unfortunately all too many people use the tactical game as their training.

[Joseph B.]

I would say the biggest two that come right to mind that have resulted in many deaths for both MIL and LE are:

LEO’s being required to give commands (and or retreat) prior to shooting (drop the weapon, retreat while shooting, etc).

All though I understand a lot of agencies are starting to really look at this and their UoF policy and getting involved with state laws. I think it’s too little too late, and with the amount of (inexperienced) instructors out teaching the “you must” do X & Y before you get to Z, has caused many deaths.

Soldiers & LEO’s being taught dynamic assaults on buildings and or rooms where they have lost the element of surprise (15-20 seconds after initial breach, bang, etc).

LE has been ahead of the game on this, really moving away from the go-go-go and starting to use more of a slow calculated/methodical assault. However, there are many agencies that focus on pure dynamic assaults, and the military (the Army for sure) has ingrained the dynamic assault into everything MOUT.

Outside of those two, I think the instructors who disregard TTP’s or state the ones that work (i.e. this doesn’t work here in this situation, or this is bad, or this is the best, etc) tend to be the ones who develop these “rules” that are getting people killed.

[orionz06]

Chanting "front sight" at varying rates of speed almost as if you are taunting the shooter seems to be something that has lost its intent.

[Al T.]

A trend I saw a few years back that annoys me is the "drawstroke equals firing" thing. IMHO, the shooter should be very aware that a drawn weapon oriented on the bad guy can result in the bad guys surrender. Hate to be the guy who shoots a BG with his hands raised and would hate to be the guy who catches a bullet due to pausing to assess.

Another reason to train to make the drawstroke an unconscious process so that attention can be paid to the BGs actions or lack thereof.

[David Armstrong]

What other training techniques can you think of that morphed into something they never were meant to be?
Any and all of them that are presented as anything close to "you need to always do this".
Tactical reloads.
Slicing the pie.

[jlw]

Another thing that IDPA stresses is moving to cover to perform a reload. My preference is to move to cover while performing a reload.

I understand IDPA is not training. Unfortunately all too many people use the tactical game as their training.

There are quite a few things in IDPA that run contrary to reality, and not reloading instantly upon running dry is one of them. I like the NRA Tactical rule better. It states that you can't move from cover with an empty gun, but a reload can be done at any time.


I would say the biggest two that come right to mind that have resulted in many deaths for both MIL and LE are:

LEO’s being required to give commands (and or retreat) prior to shooting (drop the weapon, retreat while shooting, etc).



Please reference an actual policy that requires retreating prior to shooting. The GA SQC has a couple of strings where one retreats while shooting, but I have never seen such written into actual policy.

[JB326]

This is a good thread. I'm pretty sure I've lived through everything mentioned so far. I have never understood how our rangemaster/ training sergeant randomly comes up with some of the "must do" stuff like the things mentioned. I guess we're fortunate enough though that many of those cardinal rules go away as swiftly as they were emplaced. We recently had a training cadre regime change though and it at least seems that the new Sgt. tends to bounce things off of all of the instructors for some analysis before implementation. There is hope...

[Mike Honcho]

the whole "slide release is bad, only use the slide to reload" and the "fine motor skills" song and dance.

[JB326]

the whole "slide release is bad, only use the slide to reload" and the "fine motor skills" song and dance.

Absolutely! I have fought this one for a long time. Reps and muscle memory are pounded into us. But apparently muscles can't remember anything other than the overhand slide release. I can't think of the last time I had to consciously think about hitting the slide release. On the other hand, I do have to make a conscious effort to manually work the slide.

[jlw]

the whole "slide release is bad, only use the slide to reload" and the "fine motor skills" song and dance.


Absolutely! I have fought this one for a long time. Reps and muscle memory are pounded into us. But apparently muscles can't remember anything other than the overhand slide release. I can't think of the last time I had to consciously think about hitting the slide release. On the other hand, I do have to make a conscious effort to manually work the slide.

The overhand method does have numerous strong arguments in favor of it, and on the whole, I do believe that it is a "better" method than using the slide stop lever; however, I have always thought that the fine motor skills argument was humorous as properly working the trigger is a fine motor skill that has to be done under stress.

[Joseph B.]

There are quite a few things in IDPA that run contrary to reality, and not reloading instantly upon running dry is one of them. I like the NRA Tactical rule better. It states that you can't move from cover with an empty gun, but a reload can be done at any time.



Please reference an actual policy that requires retreating prior to shooting. The GA SQC has a couple of strings where one retreats while shooting, but I have never seen such written into actual policy.

I do not have any UoF policy that states “retreat” prior to shooting, however, I have attended several LE school where instructors asserted that “you must retreat” and “shout commands” in order to reduce possible civil and criminal liabilities, etc.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgqrt67CP7U


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX5kwVc9IOk&feature=related

These videos are two classic examples of what I am talking about, and although I know that training has shifted the other direction and that these videos are both used as training tools to show why commands and or retreating is not necessary. There are quite a few instructors who teach that, quite a few LEO-instructors I have spoken with that state it is part of the LEA approved curriculum, etc.

[jlw]

I do not have any UoF policy that states “retreat” prior to shooting, however, I have attended several LE school where instructors asserted that “you must retreat” and “shout commands” in order to reduce possible civil and criminal liabilities, etc.



These videos are two classic examples of what I am talking about, and although I know that training has shifted the other direction and that these videos are both used as training tools to show why commands and or retreating is not necessary. There are quite a few instructors who teach that, quite a few LEO-instructors I have spoken with that state it is part of the LEA approved curriculum, etc.

I am very familiar with both of those videos, and I have a lot of behind the scenes knowledge of the Dinkheller incident.

The first video is an indication of either a supervisor that can't make decisions or an agency that that is completely dysfunctional or both. There is a lot of unsubstantiated info out there about Dinkheller's incident, and I won't add fuel to that one here.

I know of no legal president nor have I ever seen a policy that mandates retreat. There may very well be some bad "instructors" out there that are so liability (false) conscience that they start teaching retreat, but they are not representative of the whole based on my experience. In fact, I have never witnessed an instructor teaching such unless the situation demands it.

The GA course has a string of fire where this occurs, but it is more from an attempt to get folks' feet moving than to teach tactics.

[Wheeler]

The overhand method does have numerous strong arguments in favor of it, and on the whole, I do believe that it is a "better" method than using the slide stop lever; however, I have always thought that the fine motor skills argument was humorous as properly working the trigger is a fine motor skill that has to be done under stress.

Dang, beat me to it on that one... I personally like it because it's a step of the malfunction drill, just one thing I don't have to think about. That and not being able to bend the first joint of my trigger finger makes it tough to utilize the Slide Release Lever on some semi-auto handguns. From a purely competitive standpoint it's slower than using the Slide Release Lever, then again not everyone plays to win the games with score sheets.

[theblacknight]

"Dont hit the boltcatch with your thumb, its impossible under stress, use your whole palm".

[JB326]

The overhand method does have numerous strong arguments in favor of it, and on the whole, I do believe that it is a "better" method than using the slide stop lever; however, I have always thought that the fine motor skills argument was humorous as properly working the trigger is a fine motor skill that has to be done under stress.

I don't disagree with you at all. But, I somehow "trained" myself on the slide release, and I have a really hard time breaking from it. Additionally, to this point in time I have *never* (knock on wood) had an experience where the slide release did not get my pistol back in the fight. I definitely see the benefits of the overhand technique, and I force myself to work on it at times, but for me the slide release is much more natural.

[jlw]

I don't disagree with you at all. But, I somehow "trained" myself on the slide release, and I have a really hard time breaking from it. Additionally, to this point in time I have *never* (knock on wood) had an experience where the slide release did not get my pistol back in the fight. I definitely see the benefits of the overhand technique, and I force myself to work on it at times, but for me the slide release is much more natural.

No argument here. I had gone strictly to the overhand method until I started shooting IDPA last year. Now the slide stop lever method has found its way back into my repertoire. :)