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Mr_White
02-17-2017, 10:28 AM
Week 204: Dot Torture

Results may be posted until March 17th, 2017.

Designed by: David Blinder
Range: 3 yards, or shooter's choice
Target: Ten 2" circles - download here: http://pistol-training.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/dot-torture-target.pdf
Start position: Varies, see below
Rounds fired: 50

The basic distance intended for this drill is 3 yards. You may choose another distance if you want. All 50 hits are required to pass. There is no time limit - this is a primarily a marksmanship drill.

Dot 1: Draw and fire one string of 5 rounds for best group. One hole if possible, total 5 rounds.

Dot 2: Draw and fire 1 shot, holster and repeat x 4, total 5 rounds.

Dots 3 and 4: Draw and fire 1 shot on #3, then 1 shot on #4, holster and repeat x 3, total 8 rounds.

Dot 5: Draw and fire string of 5 rounds, strong hand only, total 5 rounds.

Dots 6 and 7: Draw and fire 2 shots on #6, then 2 on #7, holster, repeat x 4, total 16 rounds.

Dot 8: From ready, fire five shots, weak hand only, total 5 rounds.

Dots 9 and 10: Draw and fire 1 shot on #9, speed reload, fire 1 shot on #10, repeat x 3, total 6 rounds.

Total your hits to determine your final score.

Please report the following when you post your results in this thread:

Gun and holster used
Distance
Total score
Pass or fail
Anything you noticed


Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

That Guy
02-17-2017, 12:34 PM
TDA Dot Torture for those who have TDA firearms is not an option for this DotW?

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scw2
02-17-2017, 12:50 PM
TDA Dot Torture for those who have TDA firearms is not an option for this DotW?

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There is a version in there for TDA

From pistol training (https://pistol-training.com/drills/dot-torture)



Dot 1 – Draw and fire two pairs (first shot DA, second shot SA) for best group. One hole if possible, total 4 rounds.
Dot 2 – Draw and fire 1 shot (DA), holster and repeat for a total of 4 rounds.
Dots 3 & 4 – Draw and fire 1 shot on #3 DA, then 1 shot on #4 SA, holster and repeat three more times, total 8 rounds.
Dot 5 – Draw and fire three pair (first shot DA, second shot SA each pair), strong hand only, total 6 rounds.
Dots 6 & 7 – Draw and fire 2 shots on #6 (first shot DA, second shot SA), then 2 on #7 (both SA), holster, repeat three more times, total 16 rounds.
Dot 8 – From ready or retention, fire three pairs (first shot DA, second shot SA), weak hand only, total 6 rounds.
Dots 9 & 10 – Draw and fire 1 shot on #9 (DA), reload, fire 1 shot on #10 (SA), holster and repeat two more times, total 6 rounds.

That Guy
02-17-2017, 12:53 PM
Yes, I know it exists. But the TDA version wasn't mentioned as an option in the description. Hence, my question.

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JAD
02-17-2017, 04:49 PM
Gun and holster used: Glock 17, wing claw
Distance: 3y
Total score: 49, dropped one off dot four, of all things.
Pass or fail: Big fat fail
Anything you noticed: I had a lot of low rounds. I'm not 100% on whether I was looking over the sights or mashing the trigger. More work to do. The SHO and WHO strings were gratifying.

Mr_White
02-17-2017, 05:22 PM
Sure, TDA version is fine!

GAP
02-19-2017, 12:04 AM
Gun and holster used: Glock 19 Gen 4, JM AIWB "George"
Distance: 7 yards
Total score: 50
Pass or Fail: Pass
Anything you noticed: Need to practice more single handed shooting. Next time out I'll do some single handed practice from 25 yards.

FOG
02-19-2017, 09:56 AM
Gun and holster: VP9, Bladetech Eclipse OWB
Distance: 5 yd
Score: 49
FAIL

Threw the last shot on #4 about a 1/4" outside of the line ... ugh. Usually when I screw up early I go crap afterwards but I beared down, kept my head in the game with strong front sight focus and cleaned it from that point forward. That's a positive I guess.

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Artemas2
02-19-2017, 12:31 PM
Glock 17 Gen 4 / Safari-land ALS/SLS
3 Yards
24/50
Think Ill just sell my stuff and work at wal-mart fail.
Rainbow six should not replace dry fire time...

14044


Glock 22 Gen 4 / Safari-land ALS/SLS
3 Yards
43 maybe, if not 41 (Dot 4)
Fail
Forced my self to slow down and focus on my grip and trigger press. Still fighting my chronic leftitis.

14045

HCM
02-19-2017, 11:31 PM
Gun and holster used: Glock 17 w/ HD's On your Six Kydex OWB
distance: 5 yards
Score: 49 cold, 50 second attempt.

Shot this from concealment (GameGuard fishing shirt)

14094

14095

Ammo was Independence Aluminum case 115 grain FMJ. During the first attempt one of the weakhand rounds felt hotter than normal. I had a malfunction caused by a popped primer. as described here in the Ammo section: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?24409-Independence-Aluminum-Cased-9mm-Popped-Primer

14096

DG12
02-20-2017, 12:15 PM
P30 V2, OWB Kydex under button down shirt
3 yards
47 (I wrote 47-48 on the sheet, couldn't tell on one)
Fail
All bad shots were done when I didn't have a consistent trigger pull throughout. I've read on here that's one of the mistakes that can be made with the LEM. I did it anyway... The biggest thing I noticed is that about halfway through I sped up considerably. I've done this many times in the past with this drill and knew I needed to remind myself to slow down. That's two things I was conscience of going in and did them anyway so I'm pretty disappointed in this performance.
14103

LJP
02-20-2017, 01:35 PM
G19 Gen 3 with Overwatch Precision Trigger and "-" connector in a RCS Eidolon, from concealment.

3 yards.

49.

Fail.

I wasn't trying to be fast at all, rather just trying to focus on fundamentals. Pleased with my SHO and WHO shooting, disappointed that I didn't pass. Dropped the first shot on #9 of all things.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170220/4259b4c2310f7982045a8b05d39fb13f.jpg


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BN
02-20-2017, 07:42 PM
Gun and holster used Gen 3 G-17
Distance 3 yards
Total score 47/50
Pass or fail Fail
Anything you noticed I yanked 3 shots weak hand only. After I was done I re-shot the 3 rounds correctly. :)

I ran it twice more with another Gen 3 G-17 and a CZ-75. Both were 50/50.

14116
14117

GJM
02-20-2017, 08:23 PM
50 rounds of dot torture strikes me as mostly torture, and may be counter productive to shooting with time constraints. I like a 15 round version, with five rounds freestyle, and five each left and right hand only. Much more interesting to me, is shooting Garcia dots, which is six rounds from the holster in five seconds, or whatever par works for you.

Luke
02-20-2017, 08:55 PM
50 rounds of dot torture strikes me as mostly torture, and may be counter productive to shooting with time constraints. I like a 15 round version, with five rounds freestyle, and five each left and right hand only. Much more interesting to me, is shooting Garcia dots, which is six rounds from the holster in five seconds, or whatever par works for you.


I've shot dot torture all the way through like 3 times. It's a killer test. I go through a brief period of wanting to look where the bullets come out when I throw a shot on like the 47th shot.

olstyn
02-20-2017, 09:32 PM
I've shot dot torture all the way through like 3 times. It's a killer test. I go through a brief period of wanting to look where the bullets come out when I throw a shot on like the 47th shot.

My personal Dot Torture-related anger mainly stems from the rules at my range - no targets closer than 7 yards, and I'm just not at that level on 2-inch dots yet. I'd love to be able to start at 3 yards like you're theoretically supposed to, as I feel like doing that and then progressing from there as I'm able would be good for my accuracy development. Sadly, my range is run by people who set rules and then refuse to explain the "why" behind them or even respond to questions. (I've asked, multiple times, what the reason for the target distance rule is, even using the basic distance for Dot Torture as an example of why a person might have a good reason for shooting closer than 7 yards, and never received any reply.)

HCM
02-21-2017, 01:01 AM
My personal Dot Torture-related anger mainly stems from the rules at my range - no targets closer than 7 yards, and I'm just not at that level on 2-inch dots yet. I'd love to be able to start at 3 yards like you're theoretically supposed to, as I feel like doing that and then progressing from there as I'm able would be good for my accuracy development. Sadly, my range is run by people who set rules and then refuse to explain the "why" behind them or even respond to questions. (I've asked, multiple times, what the reason for the target distance rule is, even using the basic distance for Dot Torture as an example of why a person might have a good reason for shooting closer than 7 yards, and never received any reply.)

Is this a club or commercial range ?

Is it the only range in your area?

olstyn
02-21-2017, 07:13 AM
Is this a club or commercial range ?

Is it the only range in your area?

It's the club I'm a member of. Unfortunately, the only one I know of that has a better rules situation is budgetarily prohibitive for me, so I'm stuck with what I've got until/unless my financial situation changes significantly.

spinmove_
02-21-2017, 08:18 AM
I shot my worst ever Dot Torture yesterday. I simply started falling apart after SHO due to frustration.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170221/28ac92b6d05b08caf779d7188babadb8.jpg

Holster: Low ready (the LGS indoor range doesn't allow drawing from the holster).

Gun: G19 Gen4

Distance: 3yds.

Score: 30/50. Fail


I attribute this failure to a number of factors that I've been playing with lately. I'm going to be doing my best to straighten those out and try again soon.


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BN
02-21-2017, 02:46 PM
50 rounds of dot torture strikes me as mostly torture, and may be counter productive to shooting with time constraints.

I noticed that my cadence was faster this time than when I had shot it in the past.

Next month: Dot Torture with times. ;)

Luke
02-21-2017, 03:48 PM
I noticed that my cadence was faster this time than when I had shot it in the past.

Next month: Dot Torture with times. ;)


Time was always my biggest factor. I once read that it took Todd ~40 minutes to clean the 10 yard DT. That's when it really sunk in that this is purely an accuracy test, slow down and make dem hits.


We should have a competition on who can do it the fastest. Start loaded in the holster, on the beep start and look at the time for your last shot fired.

BN
02-21-2017, 05:18 PM
Time was always my biggest factor. I once read that it took Todd ~40 minutes to clean the 10 yard DT. That's when it really sunk in that this is purely an accuracy test, slow down and make dem hits.


We should have a competition on who can do it the fastest. Start loaded in the holster, on the beep start and look at the time for your last shot fired.

Looks to me like there would be 19 separate times. Then add them up.

Jared
02-21-2017, 06:14 PM
My personal Dot Torture-related anger mainly stems from the rules at my range - no targets closer than 7 yards, and I'm just not at that level on 2-inch dots yet. I'd love to be able to start at 3 yards like you're theoretically supposed to, as I feel like doing that and then progressing from there as I'm able would be good for my accuracy development. Sadly, my range is run by people who set rules and then refuse to explain the "why" behind them or even respond to questions. (I've asked, multiple times, what the reason for the target distance rule is, even using the basic distance for Dot Torture as an example of why a person might have a good reason for shooting closer than 7 yards, and never received any reply.)

Here's just a stupid idea, but the 5.5" black of an NRA B8 bull at 9 yards is somewhat of an approximation of a 2" dot at 3. Maybe set up a couple B8's and run it that way. I've done that a couple times when I didn't wanna move target stands around and stuff.

GAP
02-21-2017, 07:08 PM
Nevermind, shouldn't post after I've had a few. :rolleyes:

Non-Pro tip: This is easier when you setup your sights to "drive the dot" like I do.

From 7 yards my front sight circle just sits in the 2" dot and I move the trigger without moving the gun... much.

Doc_Glock
02-21-2017, 09:45 PM
3 yards Glock 19 Defoor sights otherwise stock. 50/50 almost threw last shot.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170222/ca9a544655e49878124ff5bf6e6975e0.jpg

What I noticed. I had my tightest dot torture going and threw several on the single hand stuff a couple weeks ago. Have been working single handed dry fire and it appears to have paid off.

This was the fastest I have run through a dot torture. This drill is amazingly mental. Today I just had the confidence that I would make every shot which is unusual for me. Time to back it up to 5 yards.

JAD
02-24-2017, 09:38 PM
G17, vm2, sport coat: 4 yards, 49, dropped one of the WHO.

167
02-25-2017, 12:30 AM
S&W 66-1
Theis IWB
7yd
50/50
Pass

14213

Luke
02-25-2017, 07:39 AM
Very impressive shooting sir.

167
02-25-2017, 08:27 AM
Very impressive shooting sir.

Thanks. I was pretty happy with myself first time I have cleaned it at 7yds.

Francis
02-25-2017, 12:28 PM
Gun and holster used - G19 gen 4 / X-Concealment gen 2 'C' OWB snap on

Distance - 3 yds

Total score - 47/50 I'm scoring a hit on #5 since the grease mark is on the line. If that's a miss then score is 46/50.

Pass or fail - Fail

I was surprised by weak hand shooting. Concentration was noticeably more intense.

POA was drive the dot.

I'm learning from this and other drills that consistency of POA, grip, trigger is very difficult but very rewarding when accomplished. Also, need to work on getting a proper grip from the holster. I'm accustomed to shooting from ready. Shooting from draw I had to adjust my grip before I was ready to fire.

14225

WobblyPossum
02-25-2017, 10:07 PM
First range session with my Beretta PX4 Compact Carry. I don't have a holster so all strings were shot from the low ready. I tried it at 3 yards and definitely shot fast than I should have. 44/50. Fail.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170226/1716d00a30aaababb132e1451b815ba5.jpg
Missed one on 2, two on 5, one on 6, and two on 9. (I initially had one of the 9s marked as a 6 but counted the holes to verify)

I rushed and did not concentrate. Four of my misses were DA which should definitely not have happened had I actually concentrated on my trigger press. Also, I'm terrible at counting apparently and fired three pairs into Dot 1 instead of two.


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hiro
02-25-2017, 11:19 PM
This is probably not something I should post but...

Dot torture is something I do at pretty much every range trip. I've cleaned it at 3 yards but struggled at 5.

I've not been able to make any range trips lately so I don't know if posting these is OK or not. Enough excuses...

14249
14250
14251
I prefer to preload magazines with the right number of rounds for each string, even then, I take my time and I doubt I'm close to shooting this within 5 minutes.

scw2
02-26-2017, 08:27 PM
Shot on Feb 17

Gun and holster used - CZ 75 SP-01 in a Gestalt CCC and polo shirt
Distance - 3 yds
Total score - 50
Pass or fail - pass

Anything you noticed:
-Don't run this drill as frequently and never cleaned it before at 3 yards, so was pleasantly surprised. I was especially worried about the WHO string.
-Was patient with my sights but tried to make sure I wasn't going so slow that it because no different than group shooting.
-Dry fired a lot between strings helped
-A few yips with shots barely squeaking in on the line. At 3 yds should have tighter groups.
-Overall I was pleasantly surprised by my SHO and WHO shooting since I haven't focused on that in livefire and turned in decent groups.

14293

BehindBlueI's
03-03-2017, 02:31 PM
P226 .40 50/50, barely. Second shot on #6 (https://pistol-forum.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=6) juuuust broke the line. I was losing my support hand and jerked it a bit.

14445

Francis
03-04-2017, 11:53 AM
G19 gen4 / X-Concealment gen 2 'C' OWB snap on

3yds

47/50 (46/50) Misses on 3, 5, 6(?), 9

Fail

I'm having trouble scoring this one. On #6 I count 7 hits. To get 8 one would have to have gone through the cloverleaf that's touching the line at 11:00. Or, maybe I forgot to take 2 shots, maybe it went to #4, or, maybe I really stink and it went off the paper. Frankly, I don't know and I don't recall jerking or pushing the shot. I usually score after the entire drill. I'll score each individual test next time.


Two things are readily apparent with this drill. I do not get a consistent grip on the draw. I take way too long to take a shot from the draw because I'm so intent on hitting the dot.

14489

rojocorsa
03-05-2017, 02:01 PM
On 2/18/17

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t34.0-12/16831328_10202869636499506_1475452533_n.jpg?oh=df9 6b24cbd442b22ea72c55467b559f5&oe=58BEFEA6

49/50 @ 5 yds from WC 1911 CQB .45 Auto from OWB Raven Phantom.

Missed one shot due to mentally distracting myself. D'oh.

https://scontent-dft4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p180x540/16939546_10202909210368828_5149278960253642344_n.j pg?oh=7ccdfe57246a89e1110294dfaed93552&oe=5938125A

From last Friday.

G.19: 35/50 (all time 5yd low today. :/ ) Again, I kept shooting on target but very high on the circles. It caused me to miss a couple of times. For some reason this has been a trend ever since I started shooting this G.19 seriously and I stopped shooting the Beretta. I feel like the pistol is generally good enough and works well enough. Shooting it precisely just takes a little more of the shooter doing their part. I have gotten some nice, on point groups with this gun before. One of the other persistent issues is that my front sight is getting harder to see due to the fading white ring around the tritium. Not sure if this is a quantifiable issue, but it makes the front sight a little more difficult to see.

VP9: 49/50 (third time I’ve ever fired this pistol, stock. Last two times I just put 5 and 10 rounds through it, very casually. For some odd reason, I can shoot well with this pistol, I need to try it at 25yds with an NRA B-8. The only reason I missed that single shot today was because I lost mental focus for a little bit. And it was a near miss too, all things considered. Since I moved out of SF Bay Area, my DT scores went down across the board, but this is one of the highest scores I’ve shot in a while. The strange part again is that I haven’t really handed or fired too many rounds through a VP9. Every other time I’ve been close to nailing 50/50 @ 5 yds, it has been with a gun I am entirely familiar with: my 92G-SD or 1911.

I suppose there are three options:

1) Try different sights on the G.19.

2) Try to carry a 92 AIWB and order a holster.

3) Embrace the VP9 which seems very easy for me to shoot well with. Downside is costs of holsters, mags, etc.


Im really considering selling one or two of my extra 9mms and embracing the VP9.

That Guy
03-12-2017, 12:38 PM
Today was a weird shooting day. I did my personal best in The Test but at the same time managed to mess up the easiest of shots. Just couldn't keep up my concentration and my eyes didn't feel like co-operating either.

Due to a printing error (who the hell uses "Letter", anyway...), the circles on my paper were actually 1.75".
I used my Beretta PX4 full size and JMCK IWB holster.
Shot this drill from the massively long range ( :p ) of 3 yards.
If we score strictly by the scoring rings, you'll note I messed up two weak hand only shots. If the circles had been the full 2" in size those two would have been hits, but... I score that as 48/50.
TOTAL FAIL
I've never actually shot this clean. At this short range the dots are so big that just shooting for accuracy gets boring, at which point I add a little speed, at which point I usually end up missing. So the entire time I was shooting this I had this nagging thought at the back of my head that judging from my past performance, I'm bound to screw up sooner or later... Which is what I think bit me on that weak hand only dot. The rest of the shooting was wayyyy easy.

14741

Duelist
03-18-2017, 06:57 PM
I have done a ton of these in the past 15 months or so, including half a dozen the week before this DOT started, but none this month because of reasons.

I am finally cleaning it at 3 yards with some predictability, regardless of what pistol I use. I've cleaned it in the dark with a 3913 and a Surefire 6P, and in daylight with a 3913, SIG P290, and Glock 42 (first time I ever shot that pistol).

This drill has humbled me, infuriated me, frustrated me, and finally, made me a better shooter.

Greg
03-18-2017, 07:22 PM
Dot Tortue reminds me that I SUCK with my weak hand.

Definitely need to improve that.

JCS
03-20-2017, 10:50 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170320/02be5f742cb3ecfa9e264555e3e7d066.jpg
Shot 48/50 at 3 yards. Super frustrating. Dropped the first shot of weak hand only. After that I wasn't focused and dropped another. Grrr. Shot with a Glock 19. I have cleaned this before. Shows I'm slacking on my trigger control.


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