Precision Rifle Ammo and Minimum Equipment Needed

[Crews]

Guys, I'd like to solicit some guidance from the brain trust. I am about to start the process of learning to reload. My primary focus will be low volume high quality precision rifle ammunition, primarily 300 Win Mag. The cost factor is the primary motivator. Ammo loaded with the bullets I want to shoot is really expensive.

With that being said, I need some advice on equipment and methods. I'd like to start purchasing the bare minimum equipment needed to churn out very high quality rifle ammo.

PRESS: I am guessing that a hand press is out? Should I be looking for a single stage press? If so, what makes a good one, and what makes a crappy one?

POWDER: once again, slow and accurate beats speed for my application. What's the cheapest, most precise way to achieve that?

BRASS PREP: case trimming, resizing, seating primers... what's the cheapest, most precise way to achieve this part?

[walker2713]

Not a professional, but have been shooting 300 and 600 yard benchrest for several years with some success. I also load for several rifles ranging from 20 Vartarg to 6.5X47 Lapua.

It really depends on what you're planning to do with your 300 win mag rounds.

Re the press, based on your expressed interests, a single stage press would be the right fit: I like the Forster Co-AX, but the RCBS Rockchucker is also good, as well as others. For cartridges to be fired in the same rifle, I would recommend Wilson's neck dies and their seating dies.

I"d also suggest that you get hooked up with the forum and website at www.accurateshooter.com, formerly the old 6br forum. There's a huge wealth of information there, as well as a variety of mature and experienced shooters who will gladly help the newcomer. I'd describe it as the "P-F" forum of precision rifle shooters.

For powders, I'd buy at least one reloading manual: I like the Hornady and the Nosler, but they're not the only ones. For loads, Google Hodgdon, Accurate Powder, Alliant, etc.

What bullets do you want to shoot? What range?

Hope this helps.

Feel free to pm me if I can he more helpful.

George

(Confession: on my first reading of your post my old eyes glided right over the mention of the 300 win mag....)

[Crews]

It really depends on what you're planning to do with your 300 win mag rounds.


What bullets do you want to shoot? What range?

George, thanks for the good advice!

This rifle will primarily be used for hunting out to 600 yards at first, and farther as I develop more wind calling ability. I'd also like to have the capability to stretch it out quite a bit further for target shooting, as I'm about to move to Houston and have access to some 1000-yard ranges.

To start out with, I am planning to use Hornady 200 ELD-X factory ammo. They have a pretty high BC, good reports, and they're affordable.

The end goal is to start loading the 215 Berger Hybrids. I like Bergers for shooting stuff. And based on research, that bullet design looks like it is less sensitive to seating depth than the VLD's.



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[okie john]

I get the feeling that you've made some assumptions that may not pan out.

The short answer to nearly every one of your questions is, “It depends.” For example, some rifles will shoot nearly any bullet well, while others are downright picky. Some rifles will shoot nearly any powder well if you have the right bullet, while others are downright picky. Some rifles don’t need much brass prep to shoot good groups at long range, while others are downright picky. You can see where this is going….

There are a LOT of ways to skin this cat, but first we have to define the problem, so a bit more information would be helpful. For starters, how much experience do you have shooting long guns, especially in 300 WM? And do you have any experience with long-range shooting, or are you just getting started?


Okie John

[Crews]

Been shooting rifles most of my adult life. I've been shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor for a couple years now, 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups on a bad day. That particular gun never warranted reloading, it was very precise and factory ammo was relatively cheap.

I worked up my dope from going to the ranch and shooting. Depending on the shooting position, I'm relatively comfortable already at 500 yards and less. Definitely need more practice making calls for the wind before I shoot at animals any further though.

I have shot plenty of 300WM in light hunting rifles in the past. This new rifle is a trued 700 with a 26" Shilen Sendero profile. 1:10" ought to be fast enough to stabilize the heavies. The barrel blank is being cut and fit by a reputable smith, and it'll be topped with my ATACR4-16 F1.

The only background I have in reloading is with fireformed .44 mag in a Lee Hand Press, with scoops to measure powder charges. It was rudimentary at best.

I realize that there is much tinkering to come up with a load that works for each individual rifle. One reason I am trying to keep the equipment investment as low as possible is that I also have to fit a Magnetospeed in my budget for load development.


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[okie john]

Been shooting rifles most of my adult life. I've been shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor for a couple years now, 1/2 MOA 5-shot groups on a bad day. That particular gun never warranted reloading, it was very precise and factory ammo was relatively cheap.

I worked up my dope from going to the ranch and shooting. Depending on the shooting position, I'm relatively comfortable already at 500 yards and less. Definitely need more practice making calls for the wind before I shoot at animals any further though.

I have shot plenty of 300WM in light hunting rifles in the past. This new rifle is a trued 700 with a 26" Shilen Sendero profile. 1:10" ought to be fast enough to stabilize the heavies. The barrel blank is being cut and fit by a reputable smith, and it'll be topped with my ATACR4-16 F1.

The only background I have in reloading is with fireformed .44 mag in a Lee Hand Press, with scoops to measure powder charges. It was rudimentary at best.

I realize that there is much tinkering to come up with a load that works for each individual rifle. One reason I am trying to keep the equipment investment as low as possible is that I also have to fit a Magnetospeed in my budget for load development.

OK, so you definitely know what you’re about.

Access to a 1,000-yard range will get you access to 1,000-yard shooters, and that’s what you really need. I’d look at the Texas State Rifle Association (https://www.tsra.com/) and their F-Class/Palma community. Many of the world’s best shooters live in Texas, and they’ve forgotten more stuff about long-range shooting than most people ever learn. Many of them are older and don’t spend much time online—they just gather at matches and swap old-guy stories. They know what works and most of them are free with advice. As with any other group of competitive shooters, they will talk your ear off about gear, loads, techniques, etc. They can also help you identify the best powder measures, dies, presses, and the other stuff that you’ll need to really play the game right, and they usually have a bunch of extra gear that they’ll sell you at a decent price to help you get started.

As for reading the wind, find shooters from Oklahoma and learn from them. They live in the wind and are the undisputed masters of reading it.

And if you find a creaky old Palma shooter in south Texas who spent a lot of time shooting in Oklahoma and who has a boatload of knowledge, extra gear to sell, and doesn’t spend much time online, tell him I said hello—he’s my dad.


Okie John

[SLG]

I have handloaded quite a bit of precision 300wm over the years. To my mind, a Redding T7 is the way to go. You will never be dissapointed in it. Redding competition dies to go with it. There are other, more expensive dies that I know work, but the Redding setup has produced my most accurate ammo ever.

I use 230gr berger bullets and Rl 17 powder. Federal non magnum primers.

[Rich@CCC]

A Forster Co-Ax is arguably the best single stage press ever manufactured. The Redding T-7 turret is possibly the best turret press ever made. A lee Breech Lock single stage press is quite possibly the best value(bang for the buck) available today.

Any of the above presses, and many others will make excellent precision rounds when coupled with the right dies and other tools. I load consistent sub MOA loads for .308 and .243 with Lee dies, but there are certainly better dies for true precision loading.

When you say "precision rifle ammo" do you mean bench rest accurate or dead coyote accurate? Either way, consistency is key. A good repeatable trimming system and a flash hole uniforming tool are the barest minimum for case prep. A precise, repeatable balance scale(forget digital for precision loads) and a powder trickler coupled with any decent powder measure will be necessary. I like the Ohaus 10-10 scale.

As far as powder and components, I'll be no help. I don't load any magnum rounds. I like Varget for my .308 and .243.

$0.02

[Crews]

A Forster Co-Ax is arguably the best single stage press ever manufactured. The Redding T-7 turret is possibly the best turret press ever made. A lee Breech Lock single stage press is quite possibly the best value(bang for the buck) available today.



When you say "precision rifle ammo" do you mean bench rest accurate or dead coyote accurate? Either way, consistency is key. A good repeatable trimming system and a flash hole uniforming tool are the barest minimum for case prep.

So I could use a Lee Breech Lock? What kind of drawbacks could be associated with using a hand Press like this? It is attractive because it is gets me in the game for cheap, and doesn't take up any space.

Your thoughts on what a repeatable case trimming system looks like?


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[Rich@CCC]

I was talking about a bench mounted single stage press. I forgot the breech lock started out as a hand held press.

This Lee kit has most of what you need to get started. http://www.titanreloading.com/kits/lee-classic-cast-breech-lock-press-kit
You'll get many years of use from the press but you'll find most of the miscellaneous stuff in the kit are better represented from Lyman or RCBS.

The powder scale is usable but far from great. The Perfect Powder measure is cheap but it works for single stage work when you're going to trickle up anyway. Add a decent caliper, dies, a few more breech lock collars, a trickler, flash hole tool and upgrade the scale.

I have excellent results with Lee's Deluxe Quick Trim set up. I use a small cordless driver and the power adapter, but it's not bad to use manually for small batch work. I went powered because I prep my .223 cases by the thousand.

Of course you'll need loading trays, some sort of bullet puller, a tumbler(eventually), etc. It's an on going addiction.

[psalms144.1]

I wouldn't look for the cheapest entry point for the press. I've been out of the reloading business for a while now, but I had a Redding (can't remember the model) back when I was handloading for accuracy in my rifles. I'd follow SLG's advice.

The other points are equally valid - there is some BASIC science involved in this process, but the rest if pure Art. You're going to have to fiddle fuck with a bunch of variables (bullet make & weight, bullet seating depth, powder make and charge, etc) until you find the load that meets your needs. For me, I was looking for sub MOA 5 shot groups at 100 yards out of short barreled hunting rifles - which is child's play compared to loading for 1,000 yard shots. My only bit of advice would be to get a decent press, match grade dies, match grade powder measure, and seat the bullets as close to the lands of the barrel as possible while still allowing them to feed from the magazine. Everything else is going to be trial and error.

Good luck!

[walker2713]

+10 for the importance of CONSISTENCY....

For powder handling, my RCBS Chargemaster is one of the best tools I've every purchased....wouldn't be without one.

I use a Lee 4 hole turret press for 9/40 and .45 pistol ammo, but wouldn't go with Lee for precision rifle work. YMMV.

George

[SLG]

Saving money on reloading gear when precision is the end state, is not smart.

Also, google ladder testing. Makes finding the accurate load much easier. I can test and have ready to reproduce, the right load, within an hour or so.

[Clusterfrack]

I recommend the Forster Coax press. The OCW method can give you a load that is very robust to errors in charge weight.
http://www.optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com

[Rich@CCC]

I'm going to have to try that OCW system. That's the first Ive seen of it. Face it, I'm strictly a hobbyist but I'm OCD too, so.

I run a modified ladder test to work up a load. I do a bit of research to find a powder and bullet that get good results for others with similar barrel/action rifles and then start loading 2-3 grains lower than max or from a a touted recipe and work up to max load or a bit above the recipe I've glommed onto in .2 grain increments with 3-5 rounds per step. Then I shoot a 3-5 round group on dedicated targets at 200yds for each load increment. Bullet seating is all identical, whether at a recipe recommended depth or at a mid point from the manual.

The best group from that test is then fine tuned by seating depth.

[SLG]

Maybe I'm using the term wrong, but OCW is what I do, and have heard it called ladder testing in the past.

[fishing]

Maybe I'm using the term wrong, but OCW is what I do, and have heard it called ladder testing in the past.

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-vs-ladder/4529811360

a very specific but understandable writeup on ladder vs. ocw.
i think folks nowadays doing ladder testing are firing multi-shot groups of each powder weight so the test has deviated some from whatever the "pure" original ladder test was.

i shoot groups at 100 yd when evaluating new recipes, not 300 yards but i am not the most consistent or precision oriented/disciplined reloader.

i need to start reading through the copy of the latest applied ballistics volume that i have - i think one of the specific things addressed is the belief held by some that certain ammo produce tighter groups at certain further distances, a concept that seems absurd to me but is somewhat widespread. also i believe it goes in depth into the composite barrel thing - very interested in proof barrels for future ARs but want to see what B. litz and team have to say about them first.

[SLG]

http://optimalchargeweight.embarqspace.com/#/ocw-vs-ladder/4529811360

a very specific but understandable writeup on ladder vs. ocw.
i think folks nowadays doing ladder testing are firing multi-shot groups of each powder weight so the test has deviated some from whatever the "pure" original ladder test was.

i shoot groups at 100 yd when evaluating new recipes, not 300 yards but i am not the most consistent or precision oriented/disciplined reloader.

i need to start reading through the copy of the latest applied ballistics volume that i have - i think one of the specific things addressed is the belief held by some that certain ammo produce tighter groups at certain further distances, a concept that seems absurd to me but is somewhat widespread. also i believe it goes in depth into the composite barrel thing - very interested in proof barrels for future ARs but want to see what B. litz and team have to say about them first.

Yeah, I probably screwed it up.

[fishing]

Yeah, I probably screwed it up.

ultimately the bullet doesnt lie, so if it produced the results desired no biggie

[SLG]

ultimately the bullet doesnt lie, so if it produced the results desired no biggie

Sorry. I meant that I used the OCW method, but called it ladder.

[Clusterfrack]

ultimately the bullet doesnt lie, so if it produced the results desired no biggie

Depends. A very accurate (precise) load can still be sensitive to variations in powder batches, charge weight, temperature, etc. I like the OCW method because it finds the charge that is both accurate and robust to differences.