Who do we like for BUISes?

[Joe in PNG]

This summer, the plan is to move my Trijicon RX06 Reflex off the carry handle cantilever mount, and onto a proper low profile mount.

Anyway, the question is what is a good, pop-up BUIS to use? One that won't cost a fortune.

The rifle is a bog standard Colt 6920 with the bog standard fixed front sight.

[El Cid]

For quality it's hard to beat KAC. I usually go with Troy fold downs because they are solid and semi-affordable. Lately though, given how reliable quality optics are I've started using the Magpul polymer sights. If I was jumping out of military aircraft overseas I'd probably stay with metal.

[bravo7]

Griffin Armament M2s....quality low profile sights.

[blues]

For quality it's hard to beat KAC. I usually go with Troy fold downs because they are solid and semi-affordable. Lately though, given how reliable quality optics are I've started using the Magpul polymer sights. If I was jumping out of military aircraft overseas I'd probably stay with metal.

I use the Magpul polymer because that's what came equipped on my rifle. I was shopping around looking to replace them with an upgrade when I read a torture test somewhere on the web where they actually survived the abuse better than other high quality metal sights. They maintain zero very well as verified via my Aimpoint H2 so I see no need to swap 'em out at this point.

ETA:

I don't recall if this (https://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html) was the report I was referring to above. There may be others but I'm too lazy to search.

[JSGlock34]

I also like the KAC sights, but I'm pleased with a set of the Magpul MBUS Pro metal sights I have on a BCM upper. I've also had good experience with Troy.

[Peally]

I use Troy sights, just because.

[Failure2Stop]

The USMC and SOCOM are pretty fond of the KAC 200-600 meter rear sights.
I actually prefer the "300 meter" version for simplicity (nothing makes you zero them for 300, so...).

[Failure2Stop]

Griffin Armament M2s....quality low profile sights.

It's nice when you don't have to actually design the product.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/product-p/gam2r.htm
http://www.operationparts.com/kac-knights-armament-300-meter-micro-flip-up-rear-sight/

But I guess at the end of the day most people don't really care.

[blues]

It's nice when you don't have to actually design the product.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/product-p/gam2r.htm
http://www.operationparts.com/kac-knights-armament-300-meter-micro-flip-up-rear-sight/

But I guess at the end of the day most people don't really care.

Or even know...in which case they at least might.

[Failure2Stop]

Or even know...in which case they at least might.

True.

[LittleLebowski]

It's nice when you don't have to actually design the product.

https://www.griffinarmament.com/product-p/gam2r.htm
http://www.operationparts.com/kac-knights-armament-300-meter-micro-flip-up-rear-sight/

But I guess at the end of the day most people don't really care.

13783

[Clusterfrack]

I use the Magpul polymer because that's what came equipped on my rifle. I was shopping around looking to replace them with an upgrade when I read a torture test somewhere on the web where they actually survived the abuse better than other high quality metal sights. They maintain zero very well as verified via my Aimpoint H2 so I see no need to swap 'em out at this point.

ETA:

I don't recall if this (https://kitup.military.com/2012/07/back-up-iron-sight-drop-test.html) was the report I was referring to above. There may be others but I'm too lazy to search.

I like the Magpul polymer BUIS too, but had the front deploy by accident a couple of times during nighttime shooting. It's just a little too easy for me to hit the button--especially with gloves. I'll probably be sticking with Troy for future builds unless it's on a long barreled upper.

[blues]

I like the Magpul polymer BUIS too, but had the front deploy by accident a couple of times during nighttime shooting. It's just a little too easy for me to hit the button--especially with gloves. I'll probably be sticking with Troy for future builds unless it's on a long barreled upper.

I've not had that issue but I can picture it.. I guess I'm pretty much conditioned to hold back a little further since I have a light set up at 3 o'clock and probably take a slightly different grip.

[El Cid]

13783

Wow! Not that I was a frequent customer anyway, but I won't be giving Griffin any more of my money.

[Greg]

I like Troys. Also heard about the Magpul polymers being far tougher than people would expect.

On my KISS carbine (No optics) I've got a Daniel Defense fixed rear sight that I like a lot.

13788

[HCM]

KAC is the heat.

I have a few Troys they are good but cannot be folded down with the small aperture in place.

These BCM/ Diamond heads are similar to the Troys but can be folded down with either aperture in place.

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Folding-Sight-REAR-DH-p/bcm-rear-sight-1301-dh.htm

[Mike C]

Mark another one down for KAC 2-6 BUIS. They are hands down the best fold down irons I've ever used, as a matter of fact they are the first thing to go on any rifle I own.

[orionz06]

KAC's and MBUS Pro are all I'll buy these days.

[SeriousStudent]

Another fan of the KAC 200-600 meter sights for a folding BUIS. They are sturdy, reliable, and most importantly - repeatable.

[ASH556]

I've had and liked KAC. No I have and like MBUS Pro. One thing I've seen and personally experienced is the windage dial moving on the KAC micro rear when folding the sight. Had no problems with the full size version.

[Clusterfrack]

Anyone have experience with Bobro Lowrider BUIS?

https://www.rainierarms.com/bobro-lowrider-buis

[Whiskey_Bravo]

I'm a fixed irons guy, even with an optic, and love the Daniel Defense offerings. I am currently using the fixed DD rear on my Colt upper with a fixed GI FSP and a Aimpoint T2 mounted to a Scalarworks lower 1/3 co-witness mount.

If I was to purchase folding sights, I would have a very difficult time deciding between KAC and Magpul MBUS PROs.

[bravo7]

Oops...didn't mean to rile up KAC fanboys.

[orionz06]

Oops...didn't mean to rile up KAC fanboys.

Respecting the people who created the shit is being a fanboy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bravo7]

Oops again.....word choice. Loyalists, if that helps.

[Default.mp3]

The USMC and SOCOM are pretty fond of the KAC 200-600 meter rear sights.
I actually prefer the "300 meter" version for simplicity (nothing makes you zero them for 300, so...).An off-tangent here, but I know KevinB has always stated that the various USMC marked Micro rears on the market were stolen property; I recall someone reputable posting somewhere within the past year or so (it might have even been you) that this was no longer the case, and there there's some grey areas. Am I remembering wrong? Are they still all technically stolen?

[ReverendMeat]

An off-tangent here, but I know KevinB has always stated that the various USMC marked Micro rears on the market were stolen property; I recall someone reputable posting somewhere within the past year or so (it might have even been you) that this was no longer the case, and there there's some grey areas. Am I remembering wrong? Are they still all technically stolen?

Further off-tangent, were those USMC marked sights actual USMC issue? All the M16A4s I saw, if they had a rear sight it was a Matech.

[rainman]

Anyone have experience with Bobro Lowrider BUIS?

https://www.rainierarms.com/bobro-lowrider-buis

I do.

Pros: lightweight, low profile, nice (IMO) sight picture
Cons: adjustment is a PITA (requires tools, so consider it 'set-it/forget-it' and treat them like a BUIS, not iron sights for match competition)

Durability is an unknown.

Summary: I really like the single set I have, but when purchasing subsequent BUIS, I more often than not have bought MBUS Pros.


-Rainman

[MSparks909]

MBUS Pros are hard to beat for the price. Have them on my LPV scope & Eotech ARs. Also like the KACs that came on my KAC rifles. I run fixed DDs on my ARs with red dots. Lower 1/3 cowitness for the optic.

[LittleLebowski]

Oops again.....word choice. Loyalists, if that helps.

So, the blatant copying doesn't bother you at all?

[HCM]

Further off-tangent, were those USMC marked sights actual USMC issue? All the M16A4s I saw, if they had a rear sight it was a Matech.

They are now. Some matech's have a tendency to pop up of their own volition.

My agency went from ARMS BUIS to Matech then to magpul MBUS when we went from EO-Tech to Aimpoint.

[orionz06]

Oops again.....word choice. Loyalists, if that helps.

I wouldn't say I am loyal to KAC by any means.


You don't find it even the slightest bit peculiar that in a world full of viable options for all the parts GA has allegedly clones that all of their shit happens to look exactly like KAC products after KAC releases them?

[Rex G]

My eyesight has reached the point I am thinking in terms of BUOS, rather than BUIS; something like a pre-sighted-in T-1, carried off-rifle, on a proper return-to-zero mount. Expensive, yes.

This is not a total rejection of iron sights; I may still continue to use them, especially if I find something different, that I like, but they are becoming less relevant. This is just me. I am not trying to convert or convince anyone.

[Eli]

I'm a fixed irons guy, even with an optic, and love the Daniel Defense offerings.

That...

Both of my ARs wear Aimpoints and fixed sights.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/bae.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/talon%20defense%20carbine%20manipulations%20037.jp g

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/range%20day.jpg




As my friend Chase Jenkins (of Talon Defense) said..."Well Eli, those are about the quickest deploying flip-up sights I've ever seen."

;)

[spinmove_]

That...

Both of my ARs wear Aimpoints and fixed sights.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/bae.jpg

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/talon%20defense%20carbine%20manipulations%20037.jp g

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee95/ceelfi/range%20day.jpg




As my friend Chase Jenkins (of Talon Defense) said..."Well Eli, those are about the quickest deploying flip-up sights I've ever seen."

;)

Something I've wondered about, because I simply don't know, is why go with a fixed set of irons? I ask out of ignorance and curiosity. With such a setup, do you zero the irons with the optic still attached or removed and why?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[Eli]

Whether this is the correct way or not I have no idea, but I always zero the irons by themselves, then mount the optic and zero it. I use the irons to "rough zero" the optic it, but fine tune the zero independently.

[blues]

Whether this is the correct way or not I have no idea, but I always zero the irons by themselves, then mount the optic and zero it. I use the irons to "rough zero" the optic it, but fine tune the zero independently.

I zeroed each separately as well. (I had the MBUS before the Aimpoint.) Then used the lower third co-witness to see if they were in agreement. When I saw the red dot sitting on top of the front sight I knew we were in business. Now I keep the MBUS tucked away unless needed.

[ragnar_d]

KAC's and MBUS Pro are all I'll buy these days.

^^ What he said. If I'm going with a non folding option, I go with the DD 1.5

[JSGlock34]

I zero the irons first. However, I use the rear aperture sight when zeroing the RDS. Using the sight allows my eye to perceive a clearer (i.e rounder) dot for zeroing.

[Failure2Stop]

An off-tangent here, but I know KevinB has always stated that the various USMC marked Micro rears on the market were stolen property; I recall someone reputable posting somewhere within the past year or so (it might have even been you) that this was no longer the case, and there there's some grey areas. Am I remembering wrong? Are they still all technically stolen?

We have never sold the 25650-1 (2-600 Meter USMC Marked Flip-Up Rear Sight) to anyone other than a US Government end-user.
Numerous resolved and ongoing cases against those stealing and reselling these in bulk.
*Resolved* as in people going to jail.


Further off-tangent, were those USMC marked sights actual USMC issue? All the M16A4s I saw, if they had a rear sight it was a Matech.

Not necessarily all "USMC" issue, but that's what the original contract and NSN is based on.
They bought enough on the first contract to put one on every M4 or M16 in inventory.
I think that Matech still have an active NSN, and given that removal of the ACOG is such a PITA and unlikely, many don't really care if they have a rear sight at all, let alone care about which one is there.

[spinmove_]

I zero the irons first. However, I use the rear aperture sight when zeroing the RDS. Using the sight allows my eye to perceive a clearer (i.e rounder) dot for zeroing.

Interesting. How does that work?


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[JSGlock34]

Peep sights can help correct for astigmatism. I have a slight astigmatism that makes the dot appear somewhat distorted. It is hardly an issue for practical shooting (I don't even notice at speed), but when zeroing it makes the dot appear imprecise to my eye. When zeroing, flipping up the rear sight (and turning down the dot brightness) gives me a nice round dot and sharpens my focus a tad.

I can't remember where I first read about this or who suggested it to me, but this has been around for years...TFB: The More You Know: Living With Astigmatism When Using Red Dot, Holographic and Prismatic Optics (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/07/06/the-more-you-know-astigmatism/)

[Chipster]

I have always like A.R.M.S. flip ups.

[John Hearne]

I've lost track of the number of guns I've setup with the Daniel Defense front sight and the Troy flip-up rear. The Daniel Defense front is perfectly relieved to allow access to a Surefire X300 mounted at 12:00. The Troys fold down reasonably flat and work with the various optics configurations I've tried.

[bravo7]

So, the blatant copying doesn't bother you at all?

If one looks around even a little bit there is a lot of "copying" in this industry and very little innovation.

[bravo7]

Respecting the people who created the shit is being a fanboy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If it's such a blatant copy why doesn't KAC go after them through the courts? If you take on honest assessment of the industry you'll find a lot of products or ideas that are nothing more than little tweaks or changes to someone's else design. In reality that's how things evolve or progress. What makes me laugh are those people that cry the loudest about GA are those people that don't even run a KAC rifle just an accessory like a sight or a T1 battery cover......and yes I have an SR15.

[orionz06]

If it's such a blatant copy why doesn't KAC go after them through the courts? If you take on honest assessment of the industry you'll find a lot of products or ideas that are nothing more than little tweaks or changes to someone's else design. In reality that's how things evolve or progress. What makes me laugh are those people that cry the loudest about GA are those people that don't even run a KAC rifle just an accessory like a sight or a T1 battery cover......and yes I have an SR15.

Ask KAC why.

The industry is full of folks that leverage their resources to copy shit, of course. Just because it happens so frequently doesn't mean we should support it. It would be different if things were tweaked or improved but they're not.

More so, in my little niche area it's been quite easy to talk to folks and get on the right side of things and others have done the same to me. It's not hard. I've not heard if GA has asked KAC anything at all but if I were to guess based on what's out in the public that didn't happen.

[blues]

Ask KAC why.

The industry is full of folks that leverage their resources to copy shit, of course. Just because it happens so frequently doesn't mean we should support it. It would be different if things were tweaked or improved but they're not.

More so, in my little niche area it's been quite easy to talk to folks and get on the right side of things and others have done the same to me. It's not hard. I've not heard if GA has asked KAC anything at all but if I were to guess based on what's out in the public that didn't happen.

Until an attorney's "cease and desist" order is received there is no motivation for someone who doesn't respect intellectual property rights to stop his lucrative practice. Even then they may not, especially if the feel that the aggrieved party lacks the means (financially and otherwise) to enforce any such claims.

[LittleLebowski]

If one looks around even a little bit there is a lot of "copying" in this industry and very little innovation.

That doesn't change what they did with KAC's designs. "Everyone else is doing it" isn't an excuse I'd allow my kids or myself.

[bravo7]

Amazing.....I'm not going to get into one of those barf.com silly arguments, and since you've gone to that silly place I'm out before I get any .......dumber.

[orionz06]

Amazing.....I'm not going to get into one of those barf.com silly arguments, and since you've gone to that silly place I'm out before I get any .......dumber.

You started that type of argument.

[Maple Syrup Actual]

I'm out before I get any .......dumber.

seems wise

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I've used Magpul, Troy and KAC. I prefer KAC by a long shot. They're very well built and low profile. Everything I've ever handled from KAC has just been outstandingly well engineered and built.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Surf]

I still use LMT fixed front and rear's unless a folder is required for an optic. I don't use as many chopped handles as I used to. Folders are Troy or KAC and I may have a rifle or two somewhere with the old mbus sights, but probably not. I haven't bought any folders in a long time. Come to think of it, despite having parts for several more complete rifles that I wanted to do, I just don't have the time and haven't built any complete rifles in over a year, maybe year and a half.

Look at these 2 geezers. One guy uses fixed sights with an EO hell and the other guy doesn't even have back ups. Timmies! This thread reminded me of this picture. :)

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/16684350_1852011235013407_8160691092479619573_n.jp g?oh=bab29cfdb123eb75bdeb65c7cfdc561e&oe=5908CAFD

[Wondering Beard]

I still use LMT fixed front and rear's unless a folder is required for an optic. I don't use as many chopped handles as I used to. Folders are Troy or KAC and I may have a rifle or two somewhere with the old mbus sights, but probably not. I haven't bought any folders in a long time. Come to think of it, despite having parts for several more complete rifles that I wanted to do, I just don't have the time and haven't built any complete rifles in over a year, maybe year and a half.

Look at these 2 geezers. One guy uses fixed sights with an EO hell and the other guy doesn't even have back ups. Timmies! This thread reminded me of this picture. :)

https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/l/t1.0-9/16684350_1852011235013407_8160691092479619573_n.jp g?oh=bab29cfdb123eb75bdeb65c7cfdc561e&oe=5908CAFD

Hmm, that seems to be a Viking bear on that second guy :-)

Yeah, total noob ;-)

[Failure2Stop]

If it's such a blatant copy why doesn't KAC go after them through the courts? If you take on honest assessment of the industry you'll find a lot of products or ideas that are nothing more than little tweaks or changes to someone's else design. In reality that's how things evolve or progress. What makes me laugh are those people that cry the loudest about GA are those people that don't even run a KAC rifle just an accessory like a sight or a T1 battery cover......and yes I have an SR15.

Because it isn't patented or copyrighted, and we have more important things to worry about.
Just because we're used to getting ripped off doesn't mean that we have to take it and not at least point out that we're getting pretty blatantly copied.

But, yeah, you're basically correct; plenty of people just don't really care.
My responses are for those that would rather not support that.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

That doesn't change what they did with KAC's designs. "Everyone else is doing it" isn't an excuse I'd allow my kids or myself.

I won't buy anything from GA if for no other reason than principle. Their 5.56 QD suppressor isn't even just sort of similar, it appears that they sat down with an NT4 and reverse engineered it. To hell with them. Many of their products wreak of KAC knock off to the point it appears they want to market to the crowd that wants KAC shit but isn't willing to pay the price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[OlongJohnson]

I've lost track of the number of guns I've setup with the Daniel Defense front sight and the Troy flip-up rear. The Daniel Defense front is perfectly relieved to allow access to a Surefire X300 mounted at 12:00. The Troys fold down reasonably flat and work with the various optics configurations I've tried.

John,

That looks like a pretty solid setup, as illustrated on the DD site.

64675

Is there any reason to prefer the Troy over an MBUS Pro for the rear?

[CleverNickname]

John,

That looks like a pretty solid setup, as illustrated on the DD site.

64675

Is there any reason to prefer the Troy over an MBUS Pro for the rear?

Maybe the angle on that picture isn't the best, but it looks like the lens on the light would get absolutely blasted by gas coming out of the top of the flash hider.

As for the OP's question, I prefer Magpul MBUS Pros.

1) They're small when folded, especially the rear sight. It doesn't extend further than the outline of the upper receiver, which gives more room for grabbing the charging handle than some other models.
2) Both the front and rear sights adjust with a thumbwheel and don't require a tool.
3) They have a 45-degree version for use on ARs with magnified scopes.

[OlongJohnson]

Maybe the angle on that picture isn't the best, but it looks like the lens on the light would get absolutely blasted by gas coming out of the top of the flash hider.


That's a potential issue, definitely moreso than if there was a few more inches of barrel past the handguard. I'm working on getting a pistol set up. It has only a 7-in handguard. I like the 12:00 pistol light strategy on my 16-in gun with a 13-in. handguard, but I'm a little concerned that the 12:00 pistol light will push the front sight too far back, especially if the light is bumped back to get the lens out of the blast zone.

I've considered a 1:30 mounting of the light, which would allow the front sight to be pushed all the way to the front of the rail and allow the light switches to be manipulated with the strong hand thumb. The downside of that approach is it makes the skinny part of the pistol somewhat wider with a big wart on a plane and in an area that normally doesn't have one. Much cleaner in and out of a bag if it's on top.

Although another thought is that if the gun ends up with a LAW folder and has the thickness of the RE folded along the left side, a 9:00 mounted light would be pretty much in line with that and might work well.

Need to experiment a bit more.

Understood on the MBUS Pros. Familiar with them. On a dot-equipped gun, I like lower-1/3 cowitness with non-offset sights because the rear aperture really cleans up the dot with my astigmatism if I need to be precise. Have a set of the offsets coming for an LPVO setup I'm working on.

I was basically asking to see if there was a reason to get the Troy rather than just going with another one of what I know. I've also looked at the Troy fixed rear to take a little more cost out of it. Plenty of room with a Micro dot.

[John Hearne]

John,

Is there any reason to prefer the Troy over an MBUS Pro for the rear?

My use of that setup predates the existence of the MBUS Pro. I tend to buy Troy flip-ups on Black Fridays so I always have some sitting around. How's that for honest?