Possible Close Call/Car Jacking

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I thought I would post this here for some brain storming / opinions. I feel like I may have had a close call a couple nights ago.

The girlfriend and I were on our way home after the super bowl, having watched it at my sister and her boyfriends house. We were driving down MLK Blvd ( six lanes wide) through an area of Tampa/North Brandon that is a relatively shitty area but a direct shot to the interstate. It's a mix of residential and commercial, MLK is sort of the dividing line between the two.

When we approached the intersection of MLK and US Hwy 301 there were five individuals four black males and a black female, dressed like you're typical hood rat, acting very aggressively, scattering across the road and attempting to stop cars.

The section of road where we were traveling was six lanes wide with a hard median in the middle and some turn lanes. The female stayed on the side walk yelling something while the other 4 idiots scattered in the road in a line attempting to stop cars. They were waving hands, shouting to slow down and stop etc.

At first I slowed down wondering what the hell these idiots were doing in the street (thinking someone had possibly been hit) but then quickly realized they were likely looking to stop cars and up to no good. The vehicle in front of me swerved to avoid hitting one and kept going, at this point they had all but one lane blocked off and were starting to block the third lane off, so I hit the gas and got as far over in the lane as I could and narrowly avoided hitting idiot #4.

Once we cleared the intersection I picked up my phone to call 911 when I saw blue lights in the mirror, so either someone else called or the cops just happened to be in the area as this area of town isn't far from HCSO HQ and the Jail.

At first I figured they were trying to flag down a vehicle for help but their body language, dress and general demeanor would suggest otherwise as they didn't look excited or scared but rather angry. Also, this is 2017, everyone has a cell phone and if somehow these five idiots were the anomaly, there were three major chain 24hr gas stations less than half a mile away.

So what are the odds these four were looking to car jack/do harm to someone that night?


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[voodoo_man]

The first rule of driving is the driver drives.

Other than required stopping points (red lights/stop signs), stopping because some random person comes out of no where signalling for you to stop is not a good enough reason to stop - it may be a good enough reason to disregard a stop sign or a red light (especially if done safely) as that persons intentions are unknown.

You did the right thing calling the police.

Just as a point of reference - there is absolutely zero legal reason for any person (other than a police officer) to attempt to stop you and/or attempt to open your door (not that it happened here, but just pointing out the logical progression). People like this should be avoided at all costs, as it is not normal/socially acceptable behavior.

Furthermore, this is a perfect example of why a car dvr is something everyone should have in their vehicle.

[Greg]

I don't live in a place where that would happen, but I suspect you were correct in stomping on the tall skinny pedal.

[LittleLebowski]

Furthermore, this is a perfect example of why a car dvr is something everyone should have in their vehicle.

[LockedBreech]

When I see anyone on the roadway who looks to be stranded or in distress, no matter how innocent the situation seems, I call the non-emergency law enforcement number and keep on driving. No matter what the situation is, that's a job for well-trained, armed people with cameras, radios, available backup, and arrest powers. Not this desk jockey with a 7+1 9mm. Right call made.

[okie john]

So what are the odds these four were looking to car jack/do harm to someone that night?

Only they know that. You made the right call.


Okie John

[PNWTO]

Only they know that. You made the right call.


Okie John

Exactly, you can't play their game if you don't sit at the table. I know that sounds cold to fellow humans but as I travel more, and read the daily news more, I am quickly coming in line with Jack Donovan's assertion: "Not my tribe, not my people, not my problem."

[RJ]

1) Right call. Jeebus, I know right where that is, too.

2) In-truck dash cam arriving tomorrow.

[LorenzoS]

You did the right thing. The prudent approach is keep yourself safe and call 911 once you're no longer vulnerable.

[TAZ]

Correct call on the situation. Bad call on driving down MLK blvd , there is a meme for that you know.

I've stopped and rendered first aid for accident victims a number of times, but those were obvious accidents and not ambushes. What you described does not sound like people looking for help, but rather to play stupid games. Maybe harmless maybe not, but why play to begin with??

[1slow]

Any MLK blvd is generally a high crime area.

[RJ]

Any MLK blvd is generally a high crime area.

This intersection is very close to the Florida Fairgrounds. The Fl State Fair is 9-20 Feb this year. I will say locals here in Tampa look askance at attending the Fair, after the Shenanigans that took place in 2014. It is not unusual to see urban yutes in the general area of MLK/301.

"TAMPA — An atmosphere of family fun at the Florida State Fair was trampled Friday night by a crowd of young people carrying out an annual practice known as wilding, sheriff's investigators said.

By the end of the night, the fair closed early and one teenager among the 99 people ejected for disorderly conduct was killed — hit by a sport utility vehicle as he tried to cross Interstate 4."

http://www.tbo.com/news/crime/wilding-youths-overwhelmed-deputies-at-state-fair-20140210/



Also, some additional reference info available in this thread, in which I asked for clarifications on the lawfulness of running down rioters:

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22371-Lawful-Self-Defense-to-quot-Run-Down-quot-Rioters

[CCT125US]

This never gets old, and could be quite useful in certain situations.....


https://youtu.be/7Nug5FZgxuk

[TAZ]

This never gets old, and could be quite useful in certain situations.....


https://youtu.be/7Nug5FZgxuk

Me want. Could be fun at the next BLM/Antifa road block party.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

The first rule of driving is the driver drives.

I'm a little confused. Do you mean that in a defensive/carjacking etc scenario that as the driver you're only responsibility should be to drive and not return fire, navigate, communicate over radio/phone etc? Because that makes sense. While my girlfriend is in fact, the shit, she's not quite killing buddy cool yet. If shit went sideways it was going to be all me.


You did the right thing calling the police.

I actually never got around to calling, when I picked up the phone I saw a squad car going to opposite direction, turn on his lights and flip a u turn. I don't know if someone else called before me or if he was just in the right spot at the right time.


Just as a point of reference - there is absolutely zero legal reason for any person (other than a police officer) to attempt to stop you and/or attempt to open your door (not that it happened here, but just pointing out the logical progression). People like this should be avoided at all costs, as it is not normal/socially acceptable behavior.

Thanks for the insight. I'm trackin.


Furthermore, this is a perfect example of why a car dvr is something everyone should have in their vehicle.

My Tacoma has a go pro mount, I always thought it was a bit retarded until now... I may have found a use for it.




Yes MLK Blvd is indeed a shit hole, unfortunately my day to day takes me through there somewhat frequently as it's the most direct route by far, and in some cases, the least sketchy in comparison to alternatives.

I feel as though as should also clarify, in case there was doubt... I had zero intentions of getting out of the vehicle under any circumstances other than to take cover and return fire.

I work as a career Firefighter and when I'm not on the big green truck with the lights and the squirty things, I'm not stoping for anything short of a bleeding out cop or obvious accident.

All too often people stop to render help to people they think are in need only to find out it's a trap, or get creamed by a passing vehicle.

When on duty you have a 40k lb truck with flashing lights between you and traffic as well as LEO backup when it's needed. None of which is available to me off duty at 22:30 on a Sunday.





Exactly, you can't play their game if you don't sit at the table. I know that sounds cold to fellow humans but as I travel more, and read the daily news more, I am quickly coming in line with Jack Donovan's assertion: "Not my tribe, not my people, not my problem."

No, it's not cold, it's the truth and the world we live in. What it is, is sad that we have to ask our selves if the person we're going to help is actually in need of help or if it's a trap. I subscribe to the same logic.


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[voodoo_man]

Yes the primary job of a driver is to drive. If there is no other person in the vehicle then that person may, only as a secondary task, use other force means but as a primary rule if you are driving you should focus on driving. There is just too much stuff that can go wrong if the driver wants to be trunk monkey operator guy but the car can't drive itself.

[Warped Mindless]

You did the right thing. Glad it ended ok for you.

[NEPAKevin]

Correct call on the situation. Bad call on driving down MLK blvd , there is a meme for that you know.



???
13776

Literally, dozens of of dash cam videos, when you search "driving down MLK blvd"

[voodoo_man]

We've got an MLK BLVD here...

80% of the homicides occur on or around it.

[PNWTO]

Any MLK blvd is generally a high crime area.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hJxWr1TKK8

[Hambo]

This never gets old, and could be quite useful in certain situations.....


https://youtu.be/7Nug5FZgxuk

I really wanted this the last time I was in Orlando. If not that, at least an AH6 on call for gun runs.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Yes the primary job of a driver is to drive. If there is no other person in the vehicle then that person may, only as a secondary task, use other force means but as a primary rule if you are driving you should focus on driving. There is just too much stuff that can go wrong if the driver wants to be trunk monkey operator guy but the car can't drive itself.

That makes sense. Now lemme axe you sumtin.... If put in my position, i.e. You're girlfriend is an untrained shooter and untrained driver (untrained in the evasive sense) would you rather be the shooter or the driver?

I feel like if I had it to do all over again I'd rather be in the passenger seat and be the shooter, as that gives more options.


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[NEPAKevin]

... girlfriend is an untrained shooter and untrained driver (untrained in the evasive sense) would you rather be the shooter or the driver?


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Driver's seat. Doesn't matter if you are the modern incarnation of Wild Bill Hickok if Thelma drives you off a cliff.

[voodoo_man]

Driver's seat. Doesn't matter if you are the modern incarnation of Wild Bill Hickok if Thelma drives you off a cliff.

Essentially.

Without doing a thesis post explaining human focus ability versus multitask performance percentages, it is just easier to say that you should drive if you are the driver and focus on driving.

There is also a theory I can't remember the name of which says your ability to act quickly decreases when you have more options or choices. This is obviously bad as driving, especially at high speed is an extremely dangerous endeavor.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Driver's seat. Doesn't matter if you are the modern incarnation of Wild Bill Hickok if Thelma drives you off a cliff.

I hadn't thought of that angle, although it makes sense. I guess the best thing to do is just teach the woman how to shoot. She grew up around guns, loves to shoot and loves that i carry everywhere we go but she struggled a little bit wit the mindset part so I absolutely haven't been pushy with it.

I got her a Walther PPS and a CCC shaggy, though for when she's ready.


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[Mr. Goodtimes]

I also will be adding this to the Tacoma. I've wanted an ARB for some time, now I have my excuse.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/d241134f7ccf17b79f7075bb07ab0196.jpg


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[RevolverRob]

If you're in a locked vehicle and moving...you're operating the best counter car-jacking weapon on the planet...2000+ pounds of steel and power.

A few things about driving that can avoid this generally.

You were pretty close to this scene as it unfolded and suddenly, traffic came to a stop. How far back did you notice the issue? Could have you stopped/turned around sooner? A classic mistake among drivers is the lack of long-range focus while driving. In an instance where you are approaching a stoplight, you should have already scanned the area around the stoplight, well in advance of stopping. The general rule is you should be looking at the farthest stoplight you can see as your guide, not the nearest. - I bring this up, because most accidents, and most drivers really have a hard time predicting traffic direction, movement, and anticipating slow-downs etc. Yet...we can program a self-driving car, because it turns out the vast majority of driving situations are easily predictable and routine, even ones that we think aren't.

Unless turning, the middle lane of multi-lane roadways is usually the fastest. Lefts and rights slow traffic down, where through traffic keeps going. This is important, because if you can move your vehicle ahead of the slowdown, you're less likely to get stopped and therefore lose the biggest advantage of your vehicle...momentum.

Whenever possible preplan and know your routes well in advance. Avoid, if at all possible, major intersections that regularly cause problems. You would be better off to take a one-block detour through the hood, moving, than sit 15 minutes at a major intersection, not moving, where all of the bad people in the hood know their victims are sitting still.

Avoid eye contact with anyone on the street approaching your vehicle. Watch them peripherally, but eye contact is an invitation for them to close in on your vehicle.

Pepper spray is useful for removing unwanted individuals from your windows, but you run the risk of it getting on you. So employ wisely.

If someone is blocking your path or otherwise being aggressive near your vehicle, a foot on the brake pedal, bring the revs up, dump the brake and bury the pedal, and burn some rubber in your vehicle (or a quick drop of the clutch, whichever). People GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY OF A VEHICLE BURNING RUBBER. Speaking of, this is a tactic that can be employed at a stoplight, as long as you leave half a car or so of length between you and the one in front. A quick throttle bump and tire squeal will lurch the vehicle forward, without risking you ramming the vehicle in front. Think of it as vehicular posturing...only it's better than physical posturing...because your vehicle weighs several thousand pounds...So if you have to...squish that person like a bug.

Shoot or drive, but not both. My preference is DRIVE.

[Joe in PNG]

One thing I try to instill in the new people over here is that one should always lock their doors when they get in a vehicle. Most people don't as a matter of habit, unless they have a car with automatic locks that engage when the vehicle is driving.
One of the favorite games for raskols in Port Moresby is to step up to a car stuck in traffic, open a rear door, and grab whatever is within reach, then run away.
The favorite game on the Highlands Highway is the freelance road repair crew shoveling mud into pot holes and demanding money from passing motorist to pass by. I usually buy them off with a cold bottle of soda.

[RevolverRob]

The favorite game on the Highlands Highway is the freelance road repair crew shoveling mud into pot holes and demanding money from passing motorist to pass by. I usually buy them off with a cold bottle of soda.

PNG is politer than Chicago or Texas then. Those efforts would only result in a quick blast of pepper spray here.

[tanner]

There is also a theory I can't remember the name of which says your ability to act quickly decreases when you have more options or choices. This is obviously bad as driving, especially at high speed is an extremely dangerous endeavor.

Hick's Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hick's_law

[Joe in PNG]

PNG is politer than Chicago or Texas then. Those efforts would only result in a quick blast of pepper spray here.
There's usually enough youths with rocks and spades to make that a potential problem. A bottle of Fanta is cheaper than a new window.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

Thanks for the insight Rob and sorry for the late reply.


If you're in a locked vehicle and moving...you're operating the best counter car-jacking weapon on the planet...2000+ pounds of steel and power.

A few things about driving that can avoid this generally.

You were pretty close to this scene as it unfolded and suddenly, traffic came to a stop. How far back did you notice the issue? Could have you stopped/turned around sooner? A classic mistake among drivers is the lack of long-range focus while driving. In an instance where you are approaching a stoplight, you should have already scanned the area around the stoplight, well in advance of stopping. The general rule is you should be looking at the farthest stoplight you can see as your guide, not the nearest. - I bring this up, because most accidents, and most drivers really have a hard time predicting traffic direction, movement, and anticipating slow-downs etc. Yet...we can program a self-driving car, because it turns out the vast majority of driving situations are easily predictable and routine, even ones that we think aren't.

It was 22:30 on a Sunday night, there essentially was no traffic. The men attempting to stop traffic were attempting to do so approximately 1/4 to maybe 1/2 mile before the next stop light.

There were only a few cars in front of me. The subjects fanned out like an accordion pulling apart, stretching from the north side of the road to the south.

I'm a very defensive driver so I noticed the situation unfolding when the first car, in the far right lane ( north ) swerved as they began fanning out. Once the car passed one of the subjects stood in the lane and the others continued to move, attempting to block more lanes.

At this point I had already began moving over to the left, I had already pretty much figured out that they were clearly attempting to block traffic. I began to decelerate a little as there was another vehicle in front of me still in one of the right lanes, he slowed and swerved to over and that left the two lanes to the left still open. By the time I got to where it was unfolding they had all the lanes blocked off except the one to the far left that I was in. I moved all the way over in the lane and was prepared to jump the median or hit the subject if he made me. There was no incoming traffic and I drive a pickup truck so jumping the median would not have been difficult.

There was no opportunity to turn around.

I always pre plan routes and avoid shit areas where applicable. I've never really gone out of my way to avoid this particular area, though. It's rough but it's not nearly as rough as other areas. I wouldn't go for an evening walk through there but I typically don't worry much about driving through it. There are parts of Tampa/Hillsborough county that I will not drive through unless forced.


Unless turning, the middle lane of multi-lane roadways is usually the fastest. Lefts and rights slow traffic down, where through traffic keeps going. This is important, because if you can move your vehicle ahead of the slowdown, you're less likely to get stopped and therefore lose the biggest advantage of your vehicle...momentum.

I typically drive in the middle lane for the reasons listed and almost always avoid the right lane unless turning.


Whenever possible preplan and know your routes well in advance. Avoid, if at all possible, major intersections that regularly cause problems. You would be better off to take a one-block detour through the hood, moving, than sit 15 minutes at a major intersection, not moving, where all of the bad people in the hood know their victims are sitting still.

I do this, and this is very good advice. See my above response in reference to driving through this area vs walking. It's rough but it's not the worst part of the county by far.


Avoid eye contact with anyone on the street approaching your vehicle. Watch them peripherally, but eye contact is an invitation for them to close in on your vehicle.

I always watch them peripherally unless they start getting too close for comfort, then I give them eye contact, but it's more of the "get lost" type of eye contact.


Pepper spray is useful for removing unwanted individuals from your windows, but you run the risk of it getting on you. So employ wisely.

Had never thought about this.


If someone is blocking your path or otherwise being aggressive near your vehicle, a foot on the brake pedal, bring the revs up, dump the brake and bury the pedal, and burn some rubber in your vehicle (or a quick drop of the clutch, whichever). People GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY OF A VEHICLE BURNING RUBBER. Speaking of, this is a tactic that can be employed at a stoplight, as long as you leave half a car or so of length between you and the one in front. A quick throttle bump and tire squeal will lurch the vehicle forward, without risking you ramming the vehicle in front. Think of it as vehicular posturing...only it's better than physical posturing...because your vehicle weighs several thousand pounds...So if you have to...squish that person like a bug.

Shoot or drive, but not both. My preference is DRIVE.

I always leave at least a car length in front of me when stopped in case I need to maneuver. Also, I kind of laughed after the fact because the guy that was going to block my lane had time too, but he stopped and just made angry gestures until I passed. I think he understood that I had absolutely "0" intentions stopping for him.


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[voodoo_man]

Hick's Law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hick's_law

there ya go...

[NEPAKevin]

I also will be adding this to the Tacoma. I've wanted an ARB for some time, now I have my excuse.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170210/d241134f7ccf17b79f7075bb07ab0196.jpg


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A v-plow would be just the thing for discouraging car-jackings but would probably look a little out of place in FL.

http://www.greatlandwelding.com/index_htm_files/460.jpg