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View Full Version : The Hornady LnL AP guru "76Highboy" of YouTube on Dillon reloaders



LittleLebowski
02-05-2017, 04:46 PM
76Highboy's videos on how to tune the Hornady Lock and Load ("LnL") AP ("Ammo Plant") have helped countless people get their LnL AP running. In this video, he finally speaks his mind on Dillon Precision reloading machines.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5LujIWCBJM&list=PLQPCJCutlSCJ8nIVamtXf0DjkJ_MAyCCt&sns=em

pdb
02-06-2017, 08:17 AM
Of course you had to post this, right after I watched it, my SDB just started having primer feed issues.

LittleLebowski
02-06-2017, 08:22 AM
Of course you had to post this, right after I watched it, my SDB just started having primer feed issues.

It's too bad no one told you about "550" :(

pdb
02-06-2017, 08:23 AM
I didn't want a 550, I do all my rifle loading on a single stage.

rojocorsa
02-09-2017, 01:22 PM
All I've ever known is the blue kool aid...

DocSabo40
02-10-2017, 12:07 PM
For some reason I thought he was going to rip into Dillon and I was genuinely curious what he would bring up.

I just drove to Dillon yesterday and picked up a 650 after years on a 550B. They are such a great company to do business with.

Mike C
02-10-2017, 08:48 PM
For some reason I thought he was going to rip into Dillon and I was genuinely curious what he would bring up.

I just drove to Dillon yesterday and picked up a 650 after years on a 550B. They are such a great company to do business with.

I'm jealous you can just drive over there. That must be amazing.

LittleLebowski
02-13-2017, 08:59 AM
I'm jealous you can just drive over there. That must be amazing.

Same here. I'd definitely visit were I in the neighborhood.

martin_j001
02-13-2017, 09:59 AM
Having used Loadmasters in the past, and having a friend who used a Pro1000 in recent past (who then "upgraded" to a Loadmaster), I'm very happy to have moved on to a 650. Like he says, it just works--set it and forget it.

Hambo
03-02-2017, 10:01 AM
Thanks, LL. I was just looking this morning at LnL AP v. 650 v. 1050. Now it's 650 or 1050.

LittleLebowski
03-02-2017, 10:52 AM
Thanks, LL. I was just looking this morning at LnL AP v. 650 v. 1050. Now it's 650 or 1050.

I'm doing some hard math on something faster than my 550 since I'm shooting more now. Happily, the 550 is infinitely flexible and decently fast. I just need to prestage supplies ahead of time and make time to reload more. However, knocking out 100 rounds of 9mm in way less than 10 mins is very tempting (it takes me about 12-14 minutes per 100 on the 550).

All of my LnL research shows a trend in LnL users saying that the LnL does not stay set where you want and needs readjusting way more often than Dillons. There is also a trend in folks reporting high primer seating issues.

Hambo
03-02-2017, 12:00 PM
I'm doing some hard math on something faster than my 550 since I'm shooting more now.

Let's stick to Dillons for right now. I know you like my math, so here's my sales pitch:

Assuming 1000 rounds per month, 12K/year.

Time to load on 550 at 400rds/hr-30 hours
Time to load on 650 at 600rds/hr-20 hours
Time to load on 1050 at 1000rds/hr-12 hours

Now we take the cost of the machine:
Cost decked out 650=$1200
Cost of decked out 1050=$2000

And divide by the cost by the time saved in hours:
$2000/18=$111/hour saved
$1200/10=$120/hour saved

Thus it's actually a bit cheaper to buy a 1050 than a 650.

Stick with me. ;)

hiro
03-02-2017, 12:03 PM
Hambo, are you on a commision or just enjoy selling stuff?

:cool:

LittleLebowski
03-02-2017, 12:26 PM
Let's stick to Dillons for right now. I know you like my math, so here's my sales pitch:

Assuming 1000 rounds per month, 12K/year.

Time to load on 550 at 400rds/hr-30 hours
Time to load on 650 at 600rds/hr-20 hours
Time to load on 1050 at 1000rds/hr-12 hours

Now we take the cost of the machine:
Cost decked out 650=$1200
Cost of decked out 1050=$2000

And divide by the cost by the time saved in hours:
$2000/18=$111/hour saved
$1200/10=$120/hour saved

Thus it's actually a bit cheaper to buy a 1050 than a 650.

Stick with me. ;)

Unfortunately for me, you quoted a conservative speed on the 1050 if one has an RF-100 or plenty of preloaded primer tubes.

Hambo
03-02-2017, 02:12 PM
Hambo, are you on a commision or just enjoy selling stuff?

:cool:

No commission, just trying to help my buddies here explain to their wives how a $2000 loader is cheaper than a $1200 model. ;)

In all honesty, when I mentioned the sentence above to my wife, she said, "That's some special math." I sensed more cynicism than belief. YMMV.

Hambo
03-02-2017, 02:14 PM
Unfortunately for me, you quoted a conservative speed on the 1050 if one has an RF-100 or plenty of preloaded primer tubes.

Higher production decreases the cost even more. ;)

hiro
03-02-2017, 02:27 PM
No commission, just trying to help my buddies here explain to their wives how a $2000 loader is cheaper than a $1200 model. ;)

In all honesty, when I mentioned the sentence above to my wife, she said, "That's some special math." I sensed more cynicism than belief. YMMV.

Perhaps the forum needs a SWMBO sub forum, you'd make a shit mod!

Nephrology
03-02-2017, 09:40 PM
Let's stick to Dillons for right now. I know you like my math, so here's my sales pitch:

Assuming 1000 rounds per month, 12K/year.

Time to load on 550 at 400rds/hr-30 hours
Time to load on 650 at 600rds/hr-20 hours
Time to load on 1050 at 1000rds/hr-12 hours

Now we take the cost of the machine:
Cost decked out 650=$1200
Cost of decked out 1050=$2000

And divide by the cost by the time saved in hours:
$2000/18=$111/hour saved
$1200/10=$120/hour saved

Thus it's actually a bit cheaper to buy a 1050 than a 650.

Stick with me. ;)

In the span of the 8 minutes I have spent on this subforum, I went from "I should start reloading" to "I should buy a Dillon Square Deal B" to "I need a Dillon 1050."

Thanks for that.

jeep45238
03-02-2017, 10:59 PM
Unfortunately for me, you quoted a conservative speed on the 1050 if one has an RF-100 or plenty of preloaded primer tubes.

I've been satisfied with the Frankfort arsenal primer tube filler, might be something to buy on sale.

JAD
03-02-2017, 11:27 PM
In the span of the 8 minutes I have spent on this subforum, I went from "I should start reloading" to "I should buy a Dillon Square Deal B" to "I need a Dillon 1050."

Thanks for that.

10/10 reading comprehension

spinmove_
03-03-2017, 08:06 AM
My wife and I just bought a house and I now have an area where I can build at least one workbench. My wife is gonna kill me when she finds out I need a Dillon 1050....


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

mmc45414
03-03-2017, 11:08 AM
Time to load on 650 at 600rds/hr-20 hours
Time to load on 1050 at 1000rds/hr-12 hours

Cost decked out 650=$1200
Cost of decked out 1050=$2000

Damn you guys and your 1050 talk, I am over here trying to bask in the glory of my recent 650 upgrade!

But you have caused me to go peek at the 1050, and it looks awesome, but am just a wee bit skeptical. Don’t get me wrong, the thing looks cool, the swage station would be great and it sure looks like a brute. Not to have sour grapes, but I am trying to understand what would make it significantly faster? I think managing the bullet (especially little slippery round nose 9mm bullets) is the slowest part of the process, and (without bullet feeders on either press) my fingers would not be any faster with a 1050.

And the cost delta is broader than this example. My 650 with case feed was right at $800 shipped, and all I did was hack together a platform made out of lumber and move the dies from my 550 and start loading. The powder check and low powder sensor are optional on both, so that is a wash. The 1050 does come with dies, but that is a financial advantage only if it is your first machine. OK, maybe I would be just a little jealous of somebody buying a 1050 as their first machine… :)

So the actual delta would be more like $1k.

You would have a primer swage station but you also give up the lifetime warranty.

And the caliber change kits are no longer $78, and take longer.

And you are still picking up and placing each bullet.

ETA: And you are still filling the primer tubes

The 1050 looks sweet, and I may have one someday, but I think the 650 is the 6920. Just an opinion, YMMV, yada, yada, yada.

ETA: Just had another thought, if the objective might be to load 1k/mo, maybe the 650 with a bullet feeder and tube filler would still come in under the cost of a 1050 and would think it would be faster than the 1050 without.

Hambo
03-03-2017, 12:56 PM
Damn you guys and your 1050 talk, I am over here trying to bask in the glory of my recent 650 upgrade!

But you have caused me to go peek at the 1050, and it looks awesome, but am just a wee bit skeptical. Don’t get me wrong, the thing looks cool, the swage station would be great and it sure looks like a brute. Not to have sour grapes, but I am trying to understand what would make it significantly faster? I think managing the bullet (especially little slippery round nose 9mm bullets) is the slowest part of the process, and (without bullet feeders on either press) my fingers would not be any faster with a 1050.

And the cost delta is broader than this example. My 650 with case feed was right at $800 shipped, and all I did was hack together a platform made out of lumber and move the dies from my 550 and start loading. The powder check and low powder sensor are optional on both, so that is a wash. The 1050 does come with dies, but that is a financial advantage only if it is your first machine. OK, maybe I would be just a little jealous of somebody buying a 1050 as their first machine… :)

So the actual delta would be more like $1k.

You would have a primer swage station but you also give up the lifetime warranty.

And the caliber change kits are no longer $78, and take longer.

And you are still picking up and placing each bullet.

ETA: And you are still filling the primer tubes

The 1050 looks sweet, and I may have one someday, but I think the 650 is the 6920. Just an opinion, YMMV, yada, yada, yada.

ETA: Just had another thought, if the objective might be to load 1k/mo, maybe the 650 with a bullet feeder and tube filler would still come in under the cost of a 1050 and would think it would be faster than the 1050 without.

I hadn't thought about the lifetime warranty, but has anyone killed a 1050?

A bullet feeder, primer tube filler, and some options are the same for both. My plan is to run 650/1050 only for 9mm, so caliber conversions are of no concern.

I entered Starline's 650 giveaway, so maybe the decision will be made for me.

mmc45414
03-03-2017, 02:11 PM
I hadn't thought about the lifetime warranty, but has anyone killed a 1050?
Yeah, that would be pretty far down the list of worries, but hey, I am rationalizing the decision I already made here!! :)
Though with the 550/650/SDB if you screw up and lose a little spring or something they just mail it to you, I don't remember ever even being charged for shipping.


A bullet feeder, primer tube filler, and some options are the same for both.
Yes, I was just suggesting that the 650 with those should still be less $ and probably actually faster.


My plan is to run 650/1050 only for 9mm, so caliber conversions are of no concern.
That was sorta my plan also, but the more I use it I am not so sure. Right now it is setup just knocking the primers out of a bunch of crimped 5.56 cases. I will for sure set it up to do the sizing, and probably a second tool head to charge and seat before it is all over. For now I am planning to charge and seat in the 550, having both is nice.


I entered Starline's 650 giveaway, so maybe the decision will be made for me.
Good Luck! :)

ETA: Reread my posts here, and want to make sure I am not misunderstood as arguing, the 1050 sure would be a hoot. A person could always get it and get it going, and you would have it forever and could continue to add things that made it faster. Hell, I even used my SL900 for a year or so before I got the hull feeder, but I sure am glad I have it now.

Hambo
03-03-2017, 07:00 PM
ETA: Reread my posts here, and want to make sure I am not misunderstood as arguing,

No, understood. I'm not trying to talk anyone into debt either, just having some fun with it. My fuzzy math aside, I'm not sure which way I'll go yet.

mmc45414
03-03-2017, 07:06 PM
No, understood. I'm not trying to talk anyone into debt either, just having some fun with it. My fuzzy math aside, I'm not sure which way I'll go yet.
Well, I wouldn't expect ya to do anything before the end of the month... :)

I entered Starline's 650 giveaway, so maybe the decision will be made for me.

Hambo
03-03-2017, 07:08 PM
If I don't win, I won't do anything until I recover from the bill from the plumbers. Bastards probably read this thread, because the bill would cover a 1050 WITH a bullet feeder.

LittleLebowski
03-03-2017, 10:58 PM
I've been satisfied with the Frankfort arsenal primer tube filler, might be something to buy on sale.

Mine hates the Winchester primers I panic bought before last November.

jeep45238
03-04-2017, 05:01 AM
Mine hates the Winchester primers I panic bought before last November.

Take solace that there's no such thing as panic buying reloading supplies or ammunition.

Mines working fine with cci (cheapest the gun show had).

Poconnor
03-04-2017, 07:30 AM
My wife just rolls her eyes whenever I talk about opportunity costs. If I bought the more expensive reloader I would have more time to do xyz. Thus it costs less. I think she's onto me. All I really learned from this thread is I "need" a home with enough land I can shoot on and a garage big enough for multiple shops. You know reloading , welding , woodworking which means seperate sanding and finishing . Damn . This never ends

GuanoLoco
03-04-2017, 08:10 AM
Thoughts:

If you have a 650, are looking for RPH increases and you don't have a Mr. Bullet Feeder, start there.

The whole RPH concept is really misleading. Hitting stated/desired RPH rates for 10 minutes is one thing, Sustaining it is quite another.

Sustaining rates is accomplished by having a press that runs smooth and not stopping. Stopping determines your RPH. Stopping is what slowly frazzles your concentration and sanity. Stopping is what wears me out as surely as pulling the lever hundreds of times.

But why are you stopping?

1) Houston we have a problem. What is it??? Damn near anything and everything.

Crimped primer pocket causing a priming issue? Upside down/damaged case? 380 case in a batch of 9mm? Berdan case? Mixed brass causing issues? "Ledged" / soft crappy brass? Obstruction in case damaging decapping pin? Upside down or toppled bullet? Issue with case/bullet feeder/priming system? Flipped primers? Ran out of components, particularly primers and have to stop/reload a tube? Checking quality (OAL, primer seating deptch, charge, crimp)? Case gauging bullets? Distractions? Trust me, the list goes on and on.

Some of this can be mitigated to a degree with preparation and QC. QC your brass. Preload a set of primer tubes or use a RF100 to fill primer tubes in parallel with reloading.

For example, I used to load the machine and have 10 loaded tubes ready to go so 1100 was a natural batch size.

Machines like the 1050 with a swager make a difference if you are dealing with mixed brass.

Loading on the downstroke with the 1050 vs. the upstroke made a big difference - for me.

Time spent fixing crimped primer pockets or having priming issues and handling the issue on the fly count - and may waste components (primers) in the process.

Your time IS worth something. When I am loading I am not doing something more productive like dry firing or logging a little quality time with Guana Loca.

GuanoLoco
03-04-2017, 08:25 AM
More thoughts.

I like to shoot a lot. I didn't want ammo availability to be a constraint for matches, live fire practice, training classes or whatever. I HATE loading ammo for a match or class the night before - nothing good comes of it.

When I first bought a 1050, and later automated that 1050 I was calculating paybacks based on round counts / year for xx years. I way underestimated round counts - not to mention newfound popularity with some shooting buddies.

At this point the consumables drive the majority of my costs. Having a nice press or a nice gun (OK guns) is cheap compared to the consumables run through them. Demand for used quality presses and quality guns is relatively high - ure I'll lose money, but I will have gotten years of use and still recovered a significant % of the original equipment cost if and when I eventually sell.

How long do you plan to do this? Are you a quick turn around hobby guy, someone who never finishes projects, or is this a long term hobby / way of life? I am guessing most of the peep on P-F aren't tourists.

Cash flow is an issue for many, so take this for what it is worth. For me it is simply a matter of priority.

So unless your press is destined to become a safe queen, subtract the resale cost and consider the cost against the cost of the components over time. Consider the value of your time, in real $ that could be earned or more likely opportunity cost.

Reloading can have a very real physical/health cost as well - repetitive motion injuries, tendinitis, etc. can be for realz. Ask me how I ended up with tendinities in my left and right elbows, inside and outside, at the same time.

I am at the stage of my life where time is short relative to what I want to do and money is not my primary constraint. Over time I buy, test and accumulate almost everything that gives me the reality of promise of reloading efficiency, especially reliability.

I simply can't afford not to.

Super77
03-04-2017, 11:28 AM
How did you automate your 1050?

richiecotite
03-04-2017, 01:51 PM
You dudes telling your wives how much time you can save on a 1050 are on dangerous ground. Seems like a good way to get that high capacity honeedoo list.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DocSabo40
03-04-2017, 04:11 PM
I actually had a 1050 years ago, back in 2003, and I did not like it. My biggest complaint was the lack of feel in seating the primers, since everything is done on the downstroke. If you feel some resistance it might be a tight case bell, a tight case in the resize station, or you could be crushing a primer in the pocket sideways (happened a few times). You can't feel the difference, I couldn't anyway.

GuanoLoco
03-04-2017, 07:10 PM
How did you automate your 1050?

Mark 7 Autoloader. X and then Pro upgrade. I am a software guy by training / career and had no interest in messing with analog drive systems.

LittleLebowski
03-04-2017, 07:59 PM
Mark 7 Autoloader. X and then Pro upgrade. I am a software guy by training / career and had no interest in messing with analog drive systems.

The Ammobot does not impress compared to the Mark7.

Super77
03-05-2017, 02:15 PM
Mark 7 Autoloader. X and then Pro upgrade. I am a software guy by training / career and had no interest in messing with analog drive systems.

How much programming/setup is required to get a Mk 7 up an running?

GuanoLoco
03-05-2017, 07:35 PM
How much programming/setup is required to get a Mk 7 up an running?

It is surprisingly easy to set up and tunable.

Computer controlled systems offer more options for tooning the machine, for example, and changing a few settings on an Android tablet is trivial.

Luke
03-05-2017, 07:44 PM
Just stepped up to a 1050 with BF from a 650 with just a case feeder. I think a 650 with case and bullet feeders would be plenty for most. I hate priming on the back stroke and wanted a 1050 so I got one. Seems the 650 is a lot easier to clear the usual issues.

chances R
03-05-2017, 09:37 PM
Mine hates the Winchester primers I panic bought before last November.

Mine works perfectly and all I have ever used is Winchester primers.

I had a 1050, and a PIA if something happens like no primer or some other snafu. And really complicated, to me, to change out between large and small primers. Sold it, got a LNL and never looked back. Have had my LNL for 4 years and would absolutely do it again.

Toonces
03-06-2017, 05:42 PM
All of my LnL research shows a trend in LnL users saying that the LnL does not stay set where you want and needs readjusting way more often than Dillons. There is also a trend in folks reporting high primer seating issues.

I can't comment on the readjusting frequency, since I've never loaded on a Dillon to make a comparison. I did have the high primer issue. A phone call to Hornady had new seating stems in the mail for free. They helped the issue, but didn't fix it. I then did this shim adjustment:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?144901-How-to-tune-the-Hornady-Lock-N-Load-AP-progressive-press

This moved the primer depth into the acceptable range. I've never had an issue firing with any of the few thousand rounds I've loaded on the LNL. Yes, I know that's a small number of loaded rounds for some, but I think it's enough to say that while irritating my OCD, it's not a show stopper. However, I can seat them deeper with a Lee or RCBS hand priming tool. The press seems to be designed to insure that primers are never seated too firmly, probably for fear of a detonation. May be true or not, but there has to be a certain level of trust that your end users are not ham fisted idiots all the time. To me it seems like a slam fire from a high primer would be a greater liability than crushing and detonating a primer.

As an aside, I've used Hornady's customer service a number of times for issues that I've caused. Every time, they sent me replacement parts for free. Kudos to Hornady. This seems like self defense when competing against Dillon.

Super77
03-18-2017, 01:08 PM
It is surprisingly easy to set up and tunable.

Computer controlled systems offer more options for tooning the machine, for example, and changing a few settings on an Android tablet is trivial.

Right on , I'm just about sold on one of these. What sensors are recommended? Is the design intent that you set it and walk away or do you watch the machine just in case there's a malfunction?

GuanoLoco
03-18-2017, 03:00 PM
Right on , I'm just about sold on one of these. What sensors are recommended? Is the design intent that you set it and walk away or do you watch the machine just in case there's a malfunction?

This is NOT a set it and walk away kind of thing. Primer sensor mandatory and was included in the past. Optical drimer drop sensor handy when decapping as getting a primer stuck on the decapping pin and sucked back up into the primer pocket is a guaranteed recipe for issues. Emergency stop button mounted somewhere central is faster than poking a the android screen. I have a laser bullet detector on order. Not sure I see the point of the powder sensor. Not much need for swage sensor for what I do.