Glock 19M...

[SLG]

Been dry firing it all night and will shoot it tomorrow or Sunday. Magwell is nice. Trigger is an improvement. Otherwise, meh so far.

If it is measurably more accurate I will be happy, but truthfully, nothing it does will likely excite me. I just don't care for small guns anymore. Not the 19M's fault, and others may be better able to appreciate it than me. The ambi slide release is of no benefit to me, and I actually prefer the finger grooves. Go figure.

A 17 frame and 19 slide would be more interesting to me, but really, the 17 is a pretty sweet spot for me.

I'll update with some shooting in the next few days.

[Lon]

New duty gun? Or just something new to try?

[El Cid]

I'm curious if the half moon cut at the bottom of the front strap will cause irritation during live fire. On my regular Gen 4 19 my pinky is on that same spot.

[SLG]

New duty gun? Or just something new to try?

Not sure yet. Depends on live fire results.

If I leave it in water overnight, do you think it will expand a bit? :-)

[blues]

Not sure yet. Depends on live fire results.

If I leave it in water overnight, do you think it will expand a bit? :-)

Shrinkage!

[SLG]

I'm curious if the half moon cut at the bottom of the front strap will cause irritation during live fire. On my regular Gen 4 19 my pinky is on that same spot.

I don't think it will for me, but my hands are not very big. The mag well is pretty well done and actually gives me a bit more purchase. Makes it harder for me to pinch my hand on a reload if I was using G19 mags for some strange reason.

[SLG]

I do wish that the manufacturers would give the option to swap the slide release over, like the mag release, instead of forcing 90% of the population to have dual slide releases all the time.

[Up1911Fan]

I can't believe no one's asked for pictures yet......

[Lon]

Not sure yet. Depends on live fire results.

If I leave it in water overnight, do you think it will expand a bit? :-)

Let us know if that works.

Can you cut down a 17 frame to fit a 19 slide? Never thought about it.

Usually everyone wants the opposite. Hell, even found this the other day (Gen 2 17 agency guns chopped tontake 19 mags): http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1GLK17CD&name=LEO+Trade-in+Glock+17+9mm+Handgun+w%2f+Cut+Down+Grip+(Accept s+G19+Magazines)&groupid=5480

[okie john]

Can you cut down a 17 frame to fit a 19 slide? Never thought about it.

Pretty sure the locking blocks are different...


Okie John

[Default.mp3]

Brah, you could make the first ever 19M Roland Special. Think of the Instagram likes.

[SLG]

Brah, you could make the first ever 19M Roland Special. Think of the Instagram likes.

I'll get right on that...

[Gray222]

Sub'd for results.

[Willard]

If I leave it in water overnight, do you think it will expand a bit? :-)

Might become a gremlin...

[PearTree]

Not sure yet. Depends on live fire results.

If I leave it in water overnight, do you think it will expand a bit? :-)
Is this an agency purchase or did you procure it on your own? I know my agency wants to purchase Glock 17m's but we were told the earliest would be summer.

[MSparks909]

I can't believe no one's asked for pictures yet......

X2. Sooooo pics?

[Texaspoff]

I'm curious if the half moon cut at the bottom of the front strap will cause irritation during live fire. On my regular Gen 4 19 my pinky is on that same spot.

Same here, that is the one thing about the 2nd gen G19/23 that bothers me when I'm shooting it. Because of that alone I have almost opted to pass on the 19M.

TXPO

[JAD]

A 17 frame and 19 slide would be more interesting to me, but really, the 17 is a pretty sweet spot for me.

Me too. I shoot the 17 measurably better but prefer the 19/P30 muzzle length for AIWB.

I have not validated, though, whether the 19/17 difference for me is just due to the smooth trigger.

[Savage Hands]

So why not try a 17M? That's if you had a choice, since you prefer full size handguns?

[Sero Sed Serio]

Might become a gremlin...

Don't some Glocks come with gremlins from the factory? #perfection

[JSGlock34]

I'm curious if the half moon cut at the bottom of the front strap will cause irritation during live fire. On my regular Gen 4 19 my pinky is on that same spot.


Same here, that is the one thing about the 2nd gen G19/23 that bothers me when I'm shooting it. Because of that alone I have almost opted to pass on the 19M.

Perhaps the 19M will make these baseplates from Pearce popular...

https://glockparts.com/ThumbnailHandler.ashx?MediaID=52651&size=270

[BehindBlueI's]

Hope they work out for you.

[BehindBlueI's]

Is this an agency purchase or did you procure it on your own? I know my agency wants to purchase Glock 17m's but we were told the earliest would be summer.

I'd wait.

[PearTree]

I'd wait.
After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.

[Nephrology]

After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.

I know I am preaching to the choir, this seems like a terrible idea. I am not in LE, but testing/vetting any pistols that I own and intend to carry is one of the most important things I do - regardless of the reputation for reliability of a given make or model. I assume that your agency test-drives candidate vehicles before purchasing enough for a fleet - strikes me as fairly obvious to apply to the same principle to your firearms...

[LSP972]

After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.

Damn, bud... ALL of that, put together at once, sounds like a first to me. And like you said... Frigging stupid.

Not surprising, I suppose. It was bound to happen eventually. Of course, problems like this (not properly making rookies get "learned" with an informal-to-them weapon BEFORE they work- for real) aren't new... But all of it once could well be a new issue, eh?

.

[Wayne Dobbs]

After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.

Sounds like time for a formal email and memo from your association/union about the liability and potential hazards of issuing new safety gear without testing it for function and reliability first. That way you have them over a barrel if something goes wrong. Dagga Boy and I have both done it during our careers. Didn't make us popular, but taking care of the troops is job one, not popularity.

[Totem Polar]

After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.

You've already gotten advice from those who would have some worth hearing. I'll just chime in with my own "WTF?" observation.

[Duces Tecum]

After reading the issues your agency had with the 17m, I definitely agree. However, in my agency my opinion is irrelevant.

For example, we are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

It's their job to do what they do. It's your job to come home at night. Maybe your back-up gun can be an earlier generation G19 which you have personally vetted.

[Wayne Dobbs]

It's their job to do what they do. It's your job to come home at night. Maybe your back-up gun can be an earlier generation G19 which you have personally vetted.

It's their JOB to take care of the citizens they serve and the cops who provide that protection. It's NOT their job to simply launch safety/emergency use equipment without verifying its efficacy.

[TGS]

Does the 19M fit in vanilla 19 kydex holsters?

[SLG]

Does the 19M fit in vanilla 19 kydex holsters?

Not usually. There needs to be room for the ambi slide release to fit. JM builds holsters that will fit it, and I've dremeled another to make it work. 1 min's worth of work.

[MSparks909]

Not usually. There needs to be room for the ambi slide release to fit. JM builds holsters that will fit it, and I've dremeled another to make it work. 1 min's worth of work.

Does your 19M have the new Ameriglo sights? If so how do you like them? Any comparisons to the Triji HD or the HD XR?

[Drang]

(W)e are buying these new guns without ever seeing or handling them. And we will be issuing them out without ever T&E them beforehand. And on top of that, we are going with a new 9mm load that will never be test fired for function and reliability before being loaded up and put in a holster.

When these issues are brought up, I am told to shut my pie hole. To say I'm not optimistic about the outcome is an understatement. Hopefully no one gets seriously injured because of the lack of testing.13648

[SLG]

I just don't like the 19 size guns. Nothing wrong with them, and if you like them, you might like the M pretty well. The trigger is pretty nice, as is the magwell. Overall it seems nice, but it really doesn't do anything for me. Here is 11 rounds I fired at 25 yards. Disregard the two high ones, that was a different thing. Gun shoots a drop low, and from the outside shots, you can see that my group was not very impressive. I was aiming at the center of the card. It has the Ameriglo sights on it, and they seem nice, but lately I haven't seemed to shoot as accurately as I am used to. I'll run it again before deciding anything, but I'm quite happy with my 17.13649

[Gewehr3]

Seems like a pretty decent group to me. Thanks for the info.

[SLG]

Seems like a pretty decent group to me. Thanks for the info.

Thanks, but that's a 3X5 card, so it's like 4.5" or so. I didn't measure it, and I don't usually fire 10 (11) round groups. I shot 2, 5 shot groups back to back, and one of those groups decided to become 6. I should have marked them and taken more care, but it was pretty windy out and I was getting impatient. I only shot 200 rounds through it today, and really just to get a feel for it. Since it shoots low, 50 yard steel was very challenging. I'll take more care next time and see what happens. May have to swap sights to get a higher POI.

I would like to think that I can test a gun in one session, but I find that I make more correct decisions when I use data from several sessions instead of just one.

[PearTree]

Damn, bud... ALL of that, put together at once, sounds like a first to me. And like you said... Frigging stupid.

Not surprising, I suppose. It was bound to happen eventually. Of course, problems like this (not properly making rookies get "learned" with an informal-to-them weapon BEFORE they work- for real) aren't new... But all of it once could well be a new issue, eh?

.
It's the Trifecta of failure. But hey I'm not SWAT, so I have no idea what I'm talking about when it comes to weapons. Rolls eyes.

[PearTree]

Sounds like time for a formal email and memo from your association/union about the liability and potential hazards of issuing new safety gear without testing it for function and reliability first. That way you have them over a barrel if something goes wrong. Dagga Boy and I have both done it during our careers. Didn't make us popular, but taking care of the troops is job one, not popularity.
I absolutely agree, that would most likely work well. The only problem with that is we are non-union and never will be as long as the current executive staff is in place. But that is another can of worms.

[98z28]

...

I would like to think that I can test a gun in one session, but I find that I make more correct decisions when I use data from several sessions instead of just one.

So true. I've been obsessed with comparing guns lately, and the above realization has surprised me more than once. Guns that seemed like a poor fit on one range session will handle wonderfully on the next outing, and vice versa. Unless something is glaringly wrong with a gun, it's best to give it a few tries before writing it off. Some characteristics won't be clear until you're tuned into the gun. Todd's approach of picking a quality gun and running it for a year is a great example to follow - especially for those of us who like to try and buy skill...

[Studentofthegun]

Is that your gun? If not, any idea when we can buy one?

[SLG]

Is that your gun? If not, any idea when we can buy one?

It is "mine." No idea, sorry.

[TC215]

Is that your gun? If not, any idea when we can buy one?

FWIW, our Glock LE rep said that IF they are offered to the general public, it would be 2018 at the earliest.

[Studentofthegun]

FWIW, our Glock LE rep said that IF they are offered to the general public, it would be 2018 at the earliest.

So apparently there's a chance they might not be?

Hmm...

[HCM]

It is "mine." No idea, sorry.

13653

[Gray222]

So apparently there's a chance they might not be?

Hmm...

Not to the general public.

Imma call my Glock dude on Monday and see if LE can source one. I doubt it.

[Studentofthegun]

Let us know what you find! :)

EDIT: I'm mostly interested because I've heard from people that they WILL be available to commercial buyers.

[TC215]

Not to the general public.

Imma call my Glock dude on Monday and see if LE can source one. I doubt it.

We were told in November that we could get them this summer for T&E. Rep said the department had to be a certain size or looking to buy a certain amount of guns before they would allow T&E of the M models. I didn't ask about them being available for individual officers.

[Duces Tecum]

FWIW, our Glock LE rep said that IF they are offered to the general public, it would be 2018 at the earliest.

I'm cautiously optimistic, never having seen a firearms manufacturer voluntarily decline to market what would surely be a best-seller.

[Erick Gelhaus]

If Glock doesn't want to sell them, that's fine. I'd rather have a Gen 3 or 4 that I can resource parts for pretty easily and is compatible other guns I stock parts for.

[Gray222]

We were told in November that we could get them this summer for T&E. Rep said the department had to be a certain size or looking to buy a certain amount of guns before they would allow T&E of the M models. I didn't ask about them being available for individual officers.

Guess I shouldn't even bother calling then

[SLG]

Like I said, if you like the 19, which I realize most people seem to, then you'll likely like this gun. However, unless you are left handed, or the finger grooves really bother you, I'm not sure that any of the other changes will really matter compared to a gen4. If the finger grooves bother you, then the flared magwell and half moon cutout might bother you as well, so potentially no net improvement there.

It seems like a really well built Glock, but at the end of the day, the only thing that likely matters about it is for lefties.

[Nephrology]

Does anyone know if/when these will make it to the open market?

[blues]

Does anyone know if/when these will make it to the open market?

You need to read the last several posts...

[sfran943]

For me, the finger groves were always the biggest draw back going from 17 to 19 so I am looking forward to getting my hands on that. Unfortunately, if true, Glock has already been excluded in my agencies current pistol testing. Unclear if they are going to allow us to keep our Personally owner guns that are authorized now.


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[Studentofthegun]

You need to read the last several posts...

To be fair, I don't think anybody really knows for sure.

[littlejerry]

Like I said, if you like the 19, which I realize most people seem to, then you'll likely like this gun. However, unless you are left handed, or the finger grooves really bother you, I'm not sure that any of the other changes will really matter compared to a gen4. If the finger grooves bother you, then the flared magwell and half moon cutout might bother you as well, so potentially no net improvement there.

It seems like a really well built Glock, but at the end of the day, the only thing that likely matters about it is for lefties.

But I thought the M designation meant it would make you a M or GM.

Maybe Gen 5 will get us there.

[El Cid]

To be fair, I don't think anybody really knows for sure.

Ha! I'm not convinced Glock knows...

[SLG]

But I thought the M designation meant it would make you a M or GM.

Maybe Gen 5 will get us there.

That may be, but I don't think anything in this world will make me a GM.

[Dave Williams]

I would be interested to see if it'll pass the no mag ejection test.

[SLG]

I would be interested to see if it'll pass the no mag ejection test.

Why?

[LittleLebowski]

I hope that someone brings one of these to the TLG memorial shoot.

[SLG]

I hope that someone brings one of these to the TLG memorial shoot.

I'm sure that can happen.

[El Cid]

I hope that someone brings one of these to the TLG memorial shoot.

Lol! Subtle. ;)

[HCM]

For me, the finger groves were always the biggest draw back going from 17 to 19 so I am looking forward to getting my hands on that. Unfortunately, if true, Glock has already been excluded in my agencies current pistol testing. Unclear if they are going to allow us to keep our Personally owner guns that are authorized now.


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I have XXL hands and share your issue with the fingergrooves on the gen 3/4 G19s.

9mm POW's should remain. .40 and .38's POWs will eventually go away.

A better question would be will the 19M/17M be authorized as POWs if they become available?

[Chaswick]

Is Glock definitely out of the running as the new ICE pistol? I have heard nothing other than Internet talk about the P320.

[KCBRUIN]

I thought I was going to be all in on the M series, but the more I shoot gen 4s side by side with other guns the more I realize how much I use the finger grooves to lock my hands on to the gun.

[HCM]

Is Glock definitely out of the running as the new ICE pistol? I have heard nothing other than Internet talk about the P320.

Nothing is official yet.

[HCM]

I thought I was going to be all in on the M series, but the more I shoot gen 4s side by side with other guns the more I realize how much I use the finger grooves to lock my hands on to the gun.

Fingergrooves are fine if they fit you. The ones on the 17/26 are tolerable but the spacing was reduced on the 19 to fit the shorter grip.

[LittleLebowski]

Lol! Subtle. ;)

Odd, my wife doesn't think I'm that subtle about what I want.

[GJM]

I am waiting for the gen 2 version of the 17/19M that has finger grooves, the non flared magwell, and no ambi slide stop.

[JSGlock34]

Too bad Glock can't come up with a MIAD type grip that would allow users to choose their preferred front strap.

https://www.magpul.com/Admin/Public/GetImage.ashx?Image=/Files/Files/Images/Products/Grip/MAG520/MAG520-blk-15.png&Width=1200&Height=700&altFmImage_path=/Files/Files/Images/Products/noImage.png&Format=jpg&Crop=5&Background=ffffff

[abu fitna]

Too bad Glock can't come up with a MIAD type grip that would allow users to choose their preferred front strap.


But then the sacred part count would increment, and marketing simoly cannot allow that to happen. The talking point is too important for those austere environment user sales...

[El Cid]

But then the sacred part count would increment, and marketing simoly cannot allow that to happen. The talking point is too important for those austere environment user sales...

I realize this was likely mostly sarcasm but Glock eventually admitted slide bite is real and added 2 back straps with beaver tails to the Gen 4 guns. Progress does happen - just not at the rate most of us would like.

[SLG]

I realize this was likely mostly sarcasm but Glock eventually admitted slide bite is real and added 2 back straps with beaver tails to the Gen 4 guns. Progress does happen - just not at the rate most of us would like.

Yeah but since they removed two finger grooves they are back down to where they were.;-)

[Trajan]

I've heard the 17m has a longer recoil assembly. Is this true for the 19m as well.

[45dotACP]

Does anyone know if/when these will make it to the open market?
TL;DR: You suck and Glock hates you

😂

[Cecil Burch]

I don't think it will for me, but my hands are not very big.

Desperately trying to not make elf jokes.....................

[sfran943]

Is Glock definitely out of the running as the new ICE pistol? I have heard nothing other than Internet talk about the P320.

No. Last intel I could pull from those in the know was it was down to two with the Glock not being one. That said, I have to see that shit before I believe it. I use the SIG 320 for my competition gun (including when I shoot for the ICE team) so I won't be too upset if it goes that way. Time will tell.


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[Guinnessman]

Eight pages and only ONE pic of this gun! WTF is wrong with the forum these days!:p;)

C'mon SLG! And post some damn pics of the ejection pattern while you are at it!

[Beat Trash]

I would be curious to hear about the ejection pattern of this gun as well.

[hiro]

Don't do it SLG, just say no to pictures.

[blues]

I would be curious to hear about the ejection pattern of this gun as well.


Don't do it SLG, just say no to pictures.

BTF...Yea or Nay?

https://img0.etsystatic.com/008/0/5652390/il_fullxfull.390274054_8ukg.jpg

[Chaswick]

sfran943,

With the Glock 17,19, 26, and 43 all being tested and approved for POW by NFTTU/OFTP/whatever it's called now, you would think Glock had a decent chance.

Wonder who the other finalist besides Sig is if not Glock...

[LSP552]

I just don't like the 19 size guns. Nothing wrong with them, and if you like them, you might like the M pretty well. .......... but I'm quite happy with my 17.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with a strong preference for the 17 over the 19. And when I go smaller lately, it's mostly a 26 because I'm spending a fair amount of time in the NE now.

The grooves on the 3rd and 4th gen 19s required surgery to work with my XL size hands, where the 17 and 26 fit perfectly.

[sfran943]

sfran943,

With the Glock 17,19, 26, and 43 all being tested and approved for POW by NFTTU/OFTP/whatever it's called now, you would think Glock had a decent chance.

Wonder who the other finalist besides Sig is if not Glock...

Don't know. Why would an agency pick that abortion called DAK? I think a RFP's can be pushed in certain directions, especially one as small as ours (compared to Big I) but who knows man.

I was told what the second finalist was but I frankly don't believe it.

I have a hard time believing the Glock is out, especially since they landed the contract with Big I. Then again SIG just scored bigger with the US Army deal.

Time will tell.


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[HCM]

Don't know. Why would an agency pick that abortion called DAK? I think a RFP's can be pushed in certain directions, especially one as small as ours (compared to Big I) but who knows man.

I was told what the second finalist was but I frankly don't believe it.

I have a hard time believing the Glock is out, especially since they landed the contract with Big I. Then again SIG just scored bigger with the US Army deal.

Time will tell.


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We have more LEO's than the FBI. On paper about 5k more with everyone.

[SLG]

Been off the grid this week, just got back.

Ejection in my single copy is just fine. No BTF for me.

I'd like to expand on a few things I wrote before, as it appears that this thread is being followed by various professionals in other places.

I prefer full size guns in most cases. They give me more surface area to grip when I want to draw fast. They give me a slightly smoother recoil cycle. They are often a bit more reliable than their compact versions, even though the compacts can be quite reliable. Really, that's about it.

I've carried G19's for some years, though all that was quite some time ago now. Never felt undergunned with one, and until the 17 became an option for me, I would have thought I'd prefer the "duty size" of the G19.

I never had an issue shooting the Gen 1,2,3's before either, but with my switch to the Gen 4, the other gens are like stone axes compared to a Gransfor Bruks. The main reason that is, has to do with my hand size. I wear a size small glove, though a medium will usually fit fine. The gen 4 SF (no back strap) allows me to grip the gun much harder than before. This dramatically improves my recoil control and sight tracking. It also, in conjunction with the redesigned mag release, allows me to more easily manipulate the gun for reloads, both in getting rid of the empty mag, as well as dropping the slide on the new mag.

Overall, the Gen 4 allows me to perform at a measurably higher level than the previous gens did.

The M series (for modified, afaik) is really just a Gen 4, with a few extra changes. I'm not left handed, so the ambi slide release is wasted on me. The trigger feels nicer, but so far, it doesn't improve my shooting. The magwell flare is well done, but ultimately not essential. I have come to like a magwell on the G19, so that the grip is longer. Don't know if that will be possible with the M or not. The finger grooves on the Gen 4 don't bother me at all, and though I can't measure their effect, they seem to provide a tiny bit of extra horizontal (I think that's correct) plane to help me resist recoil, as well as to help draw the gun. I can't measure that on the timer or the target at this time, but it "feels" good to me. So the lack of finger grooves is also pretty meaningless to me. I know lots of people have issues with the finger grooves, and if you are one of them, the M is likely going to be better for you.

I think that about covers it. The G19 is considered one of the best pistols ever made, and though I don't prefer it, it works just fine and if I was limited to it, I would not feel bad at all. There is nothing wrong with the M in any way, it's just that for me, it doesn't really improve upon the gen 4. If you like the G19...if you don't like finger grooves...if you're left handed...I imagine you'll like the 19M.

Hope that helps.

Semper Gumby.

[DocGKR]

Well said...

[Rex G]

Yes, SLG, well-stated. Thanks for the report.

The Gen4 finger grooves actually work well for me, and even for lefty* shooting, I do not feel a desire for an ambidextrous mag release, so I doubt I will stand in line for an M, but it is good to be informed on current Glock developments. If most parts interchange, and it happens to fit me well, I may add a 19M, eventually, to give it a try. No hurry; I just added a third Gen4 G19, to complete my "pair and a spare."

*Even though a natural left-hander, I started carrying primary, in 1983, at 0300, for several practical/tactical reasons. (Pulling a trigger is caveman-simple, whereas the support hand has so very many important things to do.) With at least two things now afflicting my aging right hand and wrist, my left side is becoming my new "strong" side, though the big switch to lefty primary will probably occur after I retire from policin'.

[Rex G]

Not usually. There needs to be room for the ambi slide release to fit. JM builds holsters that will fit it, and I've dremeled another to make it work. 1 min's worth of work.

It is good to know this; thanks. I was thinking my next holster might be ordered from JM; this makes it more likely.

[SLG]

Thanks Doc! Rex too!

[karmapolice]

Posting this here not to hijack but kind of to piggy back on what SLG said about the 19's and grip size.

Well much to my chagrin and to SLG being right all along ;). I have switch backed to full size grip Glocks after giving the 19 a fair go. I really kind of lucked into the 19s to try and already vetted the carry one and could shoot it well but I definitely suffered inconsistency issues (te backup carry was already vetted too by ASH556). I wear an XL glove and sometimes those can be tight on my hands (all my fingers except my broke ass pinkies).
Overall I had to do a lot more adjusting with my grip with the 19 to keep it consistent and would suffer while trying to maintain a good grip during follow up shots. I just do not experience that at all with the full size 17/34 frame. Like SLG I prefer the 19 with a mag well that doesn't impede magazine removal but gives a little bit more length; however my hands were still fairly crowded on the 19 grip.

Unlike SLG and more Like Mr. White, I'm a 34 guy as that was my main carry for the past couple years and what I was carrying in uniform up until I became defective. I never got rid of my one 34 as it is definitely proven and vetted. I've already traded one of the 19s for a 34 and sold another one and picked up a new 34 that once verified with some ammo down range will be the backup carry and the other one will be the practice/comp pistol.

I've still got one 19 I'm selling but the money from it is going to go to a holster and starting a fund for building a backup upper to go on my spare lower with optic for work. Sean can beat me up for that failure on my point, where I had lapsed and had let myself not have the upper and spare optic for my main work carbine (I deserve every hit lol, as I had one in the past and know better).

[SLG]

Karma,

Though I appreciate the props, I'm sure you realize it is not a matter of being right. Everyone's hand size is different (even if we have the same glove size, finger/palm proportions are drastically different in every direction). I know big guys like you, and bigger, who prefer 19's and 26's, and shoot them very well. Small as I am, I prefer the longer grip of the 17.

I think the issue is that if you can perform at the level you are happy with, then drive on. If you identify a weakness (like you did), then figure out how to fix that. Sometimes it is as simple as switching guns. Other times it is a technique change that is needed.

Glad you found something that works better for you, but don't be shocked if that changes again at some point. You either keep learning and improving, or you stagnate.

[karmapolice]

Karma,

Though I appreciate the props, I'm sure you realize it is not a matter of being right. Everyone's hand size is different (even if we have the same glove size, finger/palm proportions are drastically different in every direction). I know big guys like you, and bigger, who prefer 19's and 26's, and shoot them very well. Small as I am, I prefer the longer grip of the 17.

I think the issue is that if you can perform at the level you are happy with, then drive on. If you identify a weakness (like you did), then figure out how to fix that. Sometimes it is as simple as switching guns. Other times it is a technique change that is needed.

Glad you found something that works better for you, but don't be shocked if that changes again at some point. You either keep learning and improving, or you stagnate.

Absolutely! I was mostly just giving you grief and joking around :cool: :p ;). I definitely agree and know guys in the same boat with all sorts of varying hand sizes. I used to run gen 3 19s when I was younger because it's what my mentors did. After time I learned they didn't work with my hands though not in the most useful way but I've progressed as a shooter from then. The gen 4's felt better and overall were an improvement but the Gen4 full size frame is where the magic is at for "me".

Also this right here- "You either keep learning and improving, or you stagnate. " can not be stated enough!!!! hash tag truth and or fact all that!!!

[Surf]

I carry a 19 or even a 27 as it is easier to conceal, but I have always stated that I interface FAR better with the 17 grip length vs the 19. Not just the length difference but how differently the backstrap interfaces as far as the "hump" is concerned. I have to do way more work on the 19's grip for it to be workable for me. I don't find anything lacking when it comes to the infamous "sight radius" advantage on a 19 vs. 17 or any sized Glock pistol for that matter, so that is a non-issue for me.

I actually find more negative effects when going to say a 34/35 or 17L length slide in a Glock than anything positive from a "sight radius advantage". Maybe I need more practice but the longer the slide the more oscillation I experience, particularly on the negative counter recoil phase where the muzzle dips below line of sight. This oscillation is pretty much non-existent in the 17 much less a 19 sized slide. Therefore I have said for many years that I would love to see a 19 slide and a 17 frame and that might be an ideal combo for myself.

Even more recently with the "Roland Special" topic's that have come about, that is the ideal build I would like to see for a Roland special. Not sure how that would balance out, but I would much prefer the 17 frame and a 19 slide on a Roland, than a 19 frame and slide.

[Nephrology]

Maybe I am the odd one out but I do better (or at worst, equally well) with the G19 sized gun vs the G17. I've done some simplistic efforts to quantify the differences and the 19 comes out on top, in my hands, both 3rd and 4th gen (vs 3rd and 4th gen 17s). That said the difference is so minor as to be insignificant.

[Eagle1*]

Soooo where are the detailed pics of this baby?

[Gio]

Maybe I am the odd one out but I do better (or at worst, equally well) with the G19 sized gun vs the G17. I've done some simplistic efforts to quantify the differences and the 19 comes out on top, in my hands, both 3rd and 4th gen (vs 3rd and 4th gen 17s). That said the difference is so minor as to be insignificant.

I am somewhat in this boat as well. I objectively shoot a G19 as well as my production G34 at things like bill drills out to 25 yds, failure drills, etc. However, my reloads are a little faster and more consistent with a 17/34 size gun than a 19. That has not been enough to make me compromise the ease of concealing a G19 over a 17/34 size gun.

[5pins]

The Glock rep came by work today and brought a bunch of toys for us to try out. Among them was the 17M and 19M. I liked the grip texturing and the flared mag well was a nice touch. I didn’t really notice the lack of finger groves but then again I don’t notice them much on the standard models. Other than that they shot like any other Glock, maybe a little better trigger.

Something else I found out, the M series will not be put on the civilian market. Instead Glock is developing the gen 5, and it should be out later this year.

PS. I really want a Glock 20 now.

[Kanati]

The Glock rep came by work today and brought a bunch of toys for us to try out. Among them was the 17M and 19M. I liked the grip texturing and the flared mag well was a nice touch. I didn’t really notice the lack of finger groves but then again I don’t notice them much on the standard models. Other than that they shot like any other Glock, maybe a little better trigger.

Something else I found out, the M series will not be put on the civilian market. Instead Glock is developing the gen 5, and it should be out later this year.

PS. I really want a Glock 20 now.

This was on Facebook today.....

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170228/d50903b36d9067754e5889ee925a07cd.jpg


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[RAM Engineer]

My prediction: Gen5 will be the 17M/19M but without the Ameriglo sights and with a standard magazine baseplate. POSSIBLY no flared magwell. I base that on nothing more than being an observer/buyer/shooter of Glock for almost 30 years.

HOWEVER Larry's post kind of dampens my prediction that his next LAV Signature Glock will be a 17M/19M/Gen5 gun (in plum!). ;)

[Trajan]

Different RSA? Can anyone confirm that the 17m uses the 20/21 RSA and the 19m uses gen 4 17 RSA?

[RAM Engineer]

Different RSA? Can anyone confirm that the 17m uses the 20/21 RSA and the 19m uses gen 4 17 RSA?

That would be physically impossible.

[Trajan]

That would be physically impossible.

Rumor was the Ms took longer RSAs.

[RAM Engineer]

First I've heard of that. What they DID do was move the locking lugs farther from the muzzle. While you might think that would allow for a longer RSA, They ALSO increased the thickness of the RSA guide ring on the slide, which basically uses up what extra space they might have gotten.

[Guinnessman]

The Glock rep came by work today and brought a bunch of toys for us to try out. Among them was the 17M and 19M. I liked the grip texturing and the flared mag well was a nice touch. I didn’t really notice the lack of finger groves but then again I don’t notice them much on the standard models. Other than that they shot like any other Glock, maybe a little better trigger.

Something else I found out, the M series will not be put on the civilian market. Instead Glock is developing the gen 5, and it should be out later this year.

PS. I really want a Glock 20 now.

Did he mention why the M will not be a Gen 5? Having LE vs. civilian guns sounds to me like a chance for Glock to cut corners on the QC on civilian pistols. I hope I am wrong, but that's just the pessimist in me coming out based on history.

[NerdAlert]

Did he mention why the M will not be a Gen 5? Having LE vs. civilian guns sounds to me like a chance for Glock to cut corners on the QC on civilian pistols. I hope I am wrong, but that's just the pessimist in me coming out based on history.

This seems like an unwarranted concern considering they already have the LE guns made with a different label. If they wanted to cut corners they could be doing that now on everything but "blue label" guns.


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[5pins]

Did he mention why the M will not be a Gen 5? Having LE vs. civilian guns sounds to me like a chance for Glock to cut corners on the QC on civilian pistols. I hope I am wrong, but that's just the pessimist in me coming out based on history.

No he did not.

[Guinnessman]

This seems like an unwarranted concern considering they already have the LE guns made with a different label. If they wanted to cut corners they could be doing that now on everything but "blue label" guns.


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I hope you are right! Overall I like the looks of the M/Gen 5, and as a lefty, I will buy a G19M after hearing some positive reviews.

[SLG]

I just ordered a 17M. No idea when it will be here, but I'm curious to run it.

[Totem Polar]

If they wanted to cut corners they would be doing that now on everything.



FIFY

[Nephrology]

Mostly I want to cash in on people selling their Gen 4 guns in droves...

[4gallonbucket]

Does this mean that they'll be manufacturing three different generations of guns at once (+ the occasional RTF/Vickers)? Wonder what they will phase out first?


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[TGS]

Did he mention why the M will not be a Gen 5? Having LE vs. civilian guns sounds to me like a chance for Glock to cut corners on the QC on civilian pistols. I hope I am wrong, but that's just the pessimist in me coming out based on history.

I don't think you'll see a quality difference between LE and civilian guns. Glock already has a pretty well established history of dumping garbage on LE agencies, so I don't think there's any motivation to make a better product for LE.

[LittleLebowski]

I'll never understand how Glock can't roll out simple changes that work and in a timely manner.

[Leroy Suggs]

Mostly I want to cash in on people selling their Gen 4 guns in droves...

This. Hope i can pick up a cheap G17.4 and a 19.

[blues]

Mostly I want to cash in on people selling their Gen 4 guns in droves...

You may have to sell a kidney or two to afford all them guns, son. ;)

[Mitch]

I'll never understand how Glock can't roll out simple changes that work and in a timely manner.

Cheap, fast, good. You only get to pick 2.


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[Nephrology]

You may have to sell a kidney or two to afford all them guns, son. ;)

...how many guns would I get out of this exactly?

[RAM Engineer]

Does this mean that they'll be manufacturing three different generations of guns at once (+ the occasional RTF/Vickers)? Wonder what they will phase out first?


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SIG: "We are the king of SKUs!"
Glock: "Hold my beer for a sec..."

[Nephrology]

...how many guns would I get out of this exactly?

follow-up question... do they have to be my kidneys?

[blues]

...how many guns would I get out of this exactly?


I'd make the best deal I could for that first one...;)

ETA:


follow-up question... do they have to be my kidneys?

https://captainawkwarddotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/miraclemax.jpg

"Aha!!! Someone's using their noodle!"

[BehindBlueI's]

I'll never understand how Glock can't roll out simple changes that work and in a timely manner.

I suspect internal friction may be part of the problem. Speaking 100% hypothetically, let's say Management Team A wants to build a certain gun. Management Team B thinks it's too far off course. Even if there is no intentional sabotage, things get misinterpreted, resources don't get assigned, etc.

[Trajan]

Mostly I want to cash in on people selling their Gen 4 guns in droves...

I got a VERY lightly used PD trade in G17 gen 4 for $350 two years ago. So they have been out there.

[JSGlock34]

Does this mean that they'll be manufacturing three different generations of guns at once (+ the occasional RTF/Vickers)? Wonder what they will phase out first?


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Glock didn't want to continue the GEN3 once they introduced the GEN4, but the early issues with the GEN4 led to a clamor to retain the GEN3. I imagine Glock would much prefer to simply produce a single generation. Considering the need to fill existing contracts and backorders though, I imagine it will be sometime before the GEN3 or GEN4 completely sunsets.

Also, the GEN3/GEN4 guns have some internal small parts in common; the M series guns deviate further from the formula and seem to follow changes first introduced the G42/G43 pistols.

[CS Tactical]

Glock didn't want to continue the GEN3 once they introduced the GEN4, but the early issues with the GEN4 led to a clamor to retain the GEN3. I imagine Glock would much prefer to simply produce a single generation. Considering the need to fill existing contracts and backorders though, I imagine it will be sometime before the GEN3 or GEN4 completely sunsets.

Also, the GEN3/GEN4 guns have some internal small parts in common; the M series guns deviate further from the formula and seem to follow changes first introduced the G42/G43 pistols.


Don't forget the California non-LEO market can only buy Gen 3 Glocks on the roster, that market is still pretty big.

[Doc_Glock]

Also, the GEN3/GEN4 guns have some internal small parts in common; the M series guns deviate further from the formula and seem to follow changes first introduced the G42/G43 pistols.

I really like the details of how my G42 is built and I wondered if Glock would incorporate these changes going forward. Good to hear.

[JBP55]

Don't forget the California non-LEO market can only buy Gen 3 Glocks on the roster, that market is still pretty big.

This!

[GardoneVT]

Don't forget the California non-LEO market can only buy Gen 3 Glocks on the roster, that market is still pretty big.

This is the case for Massachusetts,as well.

Note that other firms are still producing legacy versions of their polymer pistols -S&W hasn't to my knowledge discontinued the Gen 1 M&P,and Springfield still imports the standard XD alongside the XDm.

Note that once the marginal cost of production is met for a manufactured good,every item produced and sold past that goal is pure profit. For Glock (and competitors) , why not keep making Gen 3s as long as there's demand and the tooling is paid off? hanks to the state legislatures of many anti gun areas, demand is guaranteed for the legacy gun.

For every Gen 3 sold ,that's extra marginal revenue which can be directed to other projects.

Such as a civilian sale Gen 5/M model,for instance.

[JAD]

Note that once the marginal cost of production is met for a manufactured good,every item produced and sold past that goal is pure profit.

C'mon buddy.

[GardoneVT]

C'mon buddy.

Obviously there's payroll,taxes, etc. But the point is the product development cost is covered. Since you gotta pay taxes and payroll anyways,why not make the legacy product if there's buyers for it?

[BehindBlueI's]

Obviously there's payroll,taxes, etc. But the point is the product development cost is covered. Since you gotta pay taxes and payroll anyways,why not make the legacy product if there's buyers for it?

At a certain point, you are stealing your own market share. Glock probably hasn't hit that point, especially with the CA roster as someone up thread mentioned.

However, you have to consider the opportunity costs, the logistic support in every aspect of sourcing to delivery, the marketing, etc. required for any given SKU. It's certainly not "pure profit".

[Jeep]

At a certain point, you are stealing your own market share. Glock probably hasn't hit that point, especially with the CA roster as someone up thread mentioned.

However, you have to consider the opportunity costs, the logistic support in every aspect of sourcing to delivery, the marketing, etc. required for any given SKU. It's certainly not "pure profit".

Very true. It's not pure profit because many of the marginal costs continue. Some might even increase. But given Glock's reputed already fat profit margins, my guess is that those Gen. 3's are making it a pretty penny. And like you say, they are probably not cannibalizing much from Gen. 4 sales.

[SLG]

I spent the day with the 19M. It is growing on me. Shot a few 2 inchish groups which were nice. Shooting at speed, at distance, the gun handled well. I may carry it for a bit and see if it really is so much easier than a 17.

[blues]

I spent the day with the 19M. It is growing on me. Shot a few 2 inchish groups which were nice. Shooting at speed, at distance, the gun handled well. I may carry it for a bit and see if it really is so much easier than a 17.

And so it begins...;)

I'll be very interested in your (longer term) impressions.

[El Cid]

I spent the day with the 19M. It is growing on me. Shot a few 2 inchish groups which were nice. Shooting at speed, at distance, the gun handled well. I may carry it for a bit and see if it really is so much easier than a 17.

Careful. Lol! I easily concealed my G21/X300 for years. Then I switched to a G19... now a full size feels like I have a MAC-10 under my shirt. It's all relative of course and I'm sure I would get used to the larger frame gun. But it's easy to get sucked in.

[Dave Williams]

It's hard to leave a 19 once you get used to it and shoot it well. Such a nice gun.

[GRV]

I spent the day with the 19M. It is growing on me. Shot a few 2 inchish groups which were nice. Shooting at speed, at distance, the gun handled well. I may carry it for a bit and see if it really is so much easier than a 17.

14665

Have you had significant time with the 17M yet?

[SLG]

Have you had significant time with the 17M yet?

None. I think mine arrives in April.

[Little Creek]

I spent the day with the 19M. It is growing on me. Shot a few 2 inchish groups which were nice. Shooting at speed, at distance, the gun handled well. I may carry it for a bit and see if it really is so much easier than a 17.

Is it a Blue Label gun? Do you know if the Ms are available for individual officer purchase at this time?

[RAM Engineer]

How's the ejection?

[SLG]

Is it a Blue Label gun? Do you know if the Ms are available for individual officer purchase at this time?

I dont know if it is available for individual purchase,sorry.

[SLG]

How's the ejection?

The cycle of operation has completed itself perfectly every time so far. Not sure what you're asking.

[psalms144.1]

I ASS-U-ME he's asking if you're getting beaned in the face/forehead with brass.

[Leroy Suggs]

I ASS-U-ME he's asking if you're getting beaned in the face/forehead with brass.

This. We wanna know:D

[SLG]

I have never had btf. This gun is no different.

[MSparks909]

I have never had btf. This gun is no different.

You are lucky then.

[SLG]

You are lucky then.

That may be.

[breakingtime91]

cool, look forward to your thoughts on the 19m. Also witnessed a 320 chucking brass to a dudes face a month ago.. It was not a constant issue but apparently, at-least his with his 320, it is happening with more brands than just a Glocks? Hopefully we can shoot together again soon, I'll be interested to see if the finger groves are a plus or minus for me.

[Leroy Suggs]

I bought a S&W 1911 scandium about 12-13 years ago that threw the brass to my forehead 100%. Every freaking shot.
They fixed it after three trips to the factory.

[blues]

I bought a S&W 1911 scandium about 12-13 years ago that threw the brass to my forehead 100%. Every freaking shot.
They fixed it after three trips to the factory.

Well, "the third time's the charm" doesn't work if they get it right on the first or second try...:rolleyes:

Thankfully, the one time I sent a firearm back to S&W they got it done the first time and back to me within a week.

[Palisut]

We are getting our 17Ms in May, apparently. I already have a pile of holsters for the G17/22, I'm wondering if the ambi slide stop is going to cause a problem with fitting in them. SLG, have you run into issues with holster fit?

[SLG]

SLG, have you run into issues with holster fit?

It's a hit or miss thing. You do need a bit of room for the ambi slide stop. Many holsters already have this, but many do not. The extended slide release will casue more of an issue than the standard.

JM Custom can make his holsters for the M, no issue.

Do you have a specific holster in mind?

[Palisut]

Do you have a specific holster in mind?
Well most of the time I use a Keeper, but have a few Safariland ALSs and a Raven Phantom that I use sometimes. Our range folks tested them with the ALS duty holsters without issue, so THAT's probably OK. Really hoping the Keeper will work. If not, I guess it's an excuse to order another JM... :)

[SLG]

Well most of the time I use a Keeper, but have a few Safariland ALSs and a Raven Phantom that I use sometimes. Our range folks tested them with the ALS duty holsters without issue, so THAT's probably OK. Really hoping the Keeper will work. If not, I guess it's an excuse to order another JM... :)

I have no idea if the keeper will work or not, but if it doesn't, a little dremel work will solve that issue. Since the Keeper is a copy of an older aiwb design, it uses the trigger guard wedge rather than the wing claw. One advantage of the trigger guard wedge in this case, is that it tends to create some air around the gun. It may take very little dremeling to fix it, if it needs it at all.

Likewise with the Raven, I have no idea.

[El Cid]

It's a hit or miss thing. You do need a bit of room for the ambi slide stop. Many holsters already have this, but many do not. The extended slide release will casue more of an issue than the standard.

JM Custom can make his holsters for the M, no issue.

Do you have a specific holster in mind?

Out of curiosity, are we talking about removing some material from inside the kydex where the ambi lever is? Or cutting out a notch to accommodate it?

[SLG]

Out of curiosity, are we talking about removing some material from inside the kydex where the ambi lever is? Or cutting out a notch to accommodate it?

Depends on the holster and how it is molded. On one I thought I was going to just create some space, and it turned into a notch for the slide release. Oh well. :-)

[orionz06]

We are getting our 17Ms in May, apparently. I already have a pile of holsters for the G17/22, I'm wondering if the ambi slide stop is going to cause a problem with fitting in them. SLG, have you run into issues with holster fit?

In most cases with most molds and how most block holsters it will be an issue but how severe is perception. They will rub and evenually remove enough material and finish on the slide stop to not hang up.

As best as I can tell mine were the first to be test fit to the M's as friends of friends and all that confirmed fit for me back when the first agency got them.

Looking over my RCS Eidolon and Morrigan it doesn't appear that either would be too great with an M model. I suspect this will be revised or may have already been revised.

[SLG]

The Eidolon does not work as is.

[Gio]

I've found the M glocks work fine in a Raven phantom, JM owb2, and Raven eidolon.

The gun does not fit in a JM Aiwb without modification.

[SLG]

I've found the M glocks work fine in a Raven phantom, JM owb2, and Raven eidolon.

The gun does not fit in a JM Aiwb without modification.

Did they change the Eidolon? Mine doesn't work.

[Gio]

Did they change the Eidolon? Mine doesn't work.

It fit mine, but now I don't recall if it just pushed the plastic out of the way and didnt interfere with holstering or if it wasn't cut high enough to interfere.

[SLG]

I just went and checked again, as I thought I might have been confusing my holster testing, or remembering incorrectly.

My 19M stops solidly on the off side slide release when it hits the holster, and will not go in properly. You can force the M into the Eidolon though, and the slide release will just wedge the side of the holster out a little bit. I prefer not to do that, but others may prefer that to the dremel. Better to get a different holster, imo.

[Corey]

I had a chance to fondle a 19M last night and got a few pics. Sorry for the picture quality, all I had was my phone. Also, we were not at a range so I didn't get to shoot it.:(

14743

Slide stop lever for lefties
14744

No more finger grooves
14745

New style firing pin safety
14746

14747

Can't really see it in this picture but the leaf spring for the slide lock and the wire spring for the slide stop lever have both been replaced with coil springs.
14748

No more polygonal rifling
14749

The ammo that was being used with it was the Speer Gold Dot G2. The hollow point had a jell like material filling the cavity and the skiving on the jacket was different. Had what looks like a crimp groove it the bullet a few millimeters forward of the case mouth. Also, the sights on it are the Ameriglo Pro-Glo sights.

I like how it feels without the finger grooves. Maybe if it becomes available on the commercial market I will give one a try.

[HCM]

The coil spring for the slide lock is a plus. I've seen a Glock 19 slide launched down range after the flat slidelock spring broke.

[JSGlock34]

I had a chance to fondle a 19M last night and got a few pics. Sorry for the picture quality, all I had was my phone. Also, we were not at a range so I didn't get to shoot it.:(

Thanks for the pics. The G42/G43 style changes are on display. Besides the change to the firing pin safety, you can also see the repositioning of the trigger return spring to the front of the trigger housing. In addition, if you look closely, you can see that Glock has changed the finish to the trigger bar and connector.

[Glockman9mm]

Perhaps I missed it, does the G19m use the Gen. 4 recoil spring? I thought I read in a different t thread that the G17m spring was longer than the Gen 4 17.

[Corey]

It looked like the RSA was the same as a gen 4, but didn't have a gen 4 available to compare it with.

[breakingtime91]

Thanks for the pics. The G42/G43 style changes are on display. Besides the change to the firing pin safety, you can also see the repositioning of the trigger return spring to the front of the trigger housing. In addition, if you look closely, you can see that Glock has changed the finish to the trigger bar and connector.

also seems to have a smooth g17 trigger shoe..

[El Cid]

also seems to have a smooth g17 trigger shoe..

Hallelujah! Every 19 and 26 I have received a 17 trigger for that reason. I know the grooved trigger was for importation points. It maybe they found something else to count? The slide in the pic says Austria, not USA.

[JSGlock34]

I didn't think the points were applied to law enforcement weapons?

[El Cid]

I didn't think the points were applied to law enforcement weapons?

Not sure. That would explain it though.

[Beat Trash]

I didn't think the points were applied to law enforcement weapons?

Are the 17M & 19M made in Georgia?

[El Cid]

Are the 17M & 19M made in Georgia?

The one in the photo says Austria. ;)

[Doublestack45]

That 19M is just begging for a Gadget.

[Gio]

I didn't think the points were applied to law enforcement weapons?

This is correct. The LE guns can come from the factory with smooth triggers.

[TAZ]

If the frame is made in the USA do they still have to count points?? Picture shows an Austrian slide assembly.

[M2CattleCo]

I like 'em. When a 17 is available I'm definitely going to pick one up.

[KyNate]

Does anyone know when these Ameriglo sights will be available??

[Nephrology]

Honestly the holster compatibility issues cools my enthusiasm for the gun substantially. The finger grooves (esp. Gen 4) just don't really bother me that much and otherwise the gun seems pretty much the same.

[RAM Engineer]

I didn't realize how MASSIVE the frontstrap magazine cutout was before. Not sure how I feel about that. Guess I'll have to feel it to know how I feel about it.

[M2CattleCo]

I didn't realize how MASSIVE the frontstrap magazine cutout was before. Not sure how I feel about that. Guess I'll have to feel it to know how I feel about it.

It looks the same as it always was. I always hated the Gen 2 19/23 because of that cut out. The Gen 3 was better.

Here's the cut out on my old Gen 3 17:

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab76/sammuse/IMG_4714_zps3ecakwvs.jpg

[breakingtime91]

Honestly the holster compatibility issues cools my enthusiasm for the gun substantially. The finger grooves (esp. Gen 4) just don't really bother me that much and otherwise the gun seems pretty much the same.

wilson combat 9mm :cool: In all seriousness the holster thing gets me also. I also have two gen 4 glock 19s that are my go to guns now, I don't feel a pull to add a g19m/gen 5 to the mix.

[Rex G]

I had tended to think of my Glocks as mere tools, with no aesthetic desirabilty, and minor annoyances that I tolerated because the sheer functionality trumped everything else, and my skinny fingers actually like the Gen4 G19 finger grooves, but I am feeling a subjective desire for a G19M, in spite of its lack of blued steel or walnut. I find myself looking forward to seeing them available at cop shops. I want to tote a G19M, in the twilight of my policin' days. Hmm.

[SLG]

I had tended to think of my Glocks as mere tools, with no aesthetic desirabilty, and minor annoyances that I tolerated because the sheer functionality trumped everything else, and my skinny fingers actually like the Gen4 G19 finger grooves, but I am feeling a subjective desire for a G19M, in spite of its lack of blued steel or walnut. I find myself looking forward to seeing them available at cop shops. I want to tote a G19M, in the twilight of my policin' days. Hmm.

Sorry. Hopefully your health insurance covers shrink visits at a decent price. :-)

[ca survivor]

I'm curious if the half moon cut at the bottom of the front strap will cause irritation during live fire. On my regular Gen 4 19 my pinky is on that same spot.

It did on the gen 2 don't know why Glock brought back the half moon again, and to me the mag cuts should be on both sides instead of front and back with the wide base pads that Glock has, it is easy to do on the base pads like the Vickers BPs, but they didn't ask me LOL

[SLG]

It did on the gen 2 don't know why Glock brought back the half moon again, and to me the mag cuts should be on both sides instead of front and back with the wide base pads that Glock has, it is easy to do on the base pads like the Vickers BPs, but they didn't ask me LOL

I think side cuts would hinder the flared magwell's function.

[ca survivor]

that's true forgot the M have magwells, that's why is better on the mag base pads, like the Vickers, Glocks base pads are very thick anyway.

[JSGlock34]

They also changed the base pads for the M guns.

[STI]

Are typical factory mags compatible or do the baseplate changes make the new ones exclusive?

[SLG]

Are typical factory mags compatible or do the baseplate changes make the new ones exclusive?

Ive heard mixed things on this. My 19m will not accept the one earlier gen 19 mag I tried. A friend was able to use older 17 mags in his 17M. Ill have to try some more mags and see.

[GJM]

I was told by someone who knows, that the 17/19M is compatible by design with legacy 17/19M magazines.

[Rex G]

Sorry. Hopefully your health insurance covers shrink visits at a decent price. :-)

Psych Services has cost-free shrinks on staff; one nice thing about working for a mega-PD. :)

Much recent turn-over, however, so they may think we are all thugs, who cling to our guns and religion.

[Rex G]

I was told by someone who knows, that the 17/19M is compatible by design with legacy 17/19M magazines.

I would hope so! At least, I would hope for compatibility with Gen4 G17 mags, so all of my Glocks could accept the one common type of mag, that I already have in decent quantity.

[GJM]

I would hope so! At least, I would hope for compatibility with Gen4 G17 mags, so all of my Glocks could accept the one common type of mag, that I already have in decent quantity.

I understand it that you only need Gen 4 magazines if you switch the magazine release to the right side of the pistol, otherwise older legacy magazines are fine.

[ca survivor]

They also changed the base pads for the M guns.

I'm guessing I should look at all the changes on the Ms more carefully :D

[paranoidroid]

For those with the 19M - there is supposed to be a more durable finish. How does it compare to the current slide finish and the older 'teflon' ones?

[SLG]

For those with the 19M - there is supposed to be a more durable finish. How does it compare to the current slide finish and the older 'teflon' ones?

I don't know. It looks fine.

I just tested a gen 4 19 mag in the M. No problem. So far, only an older gen3 mag won't fit. Don't know why.

[JSGlock34]

I had an issue with older G19 magazines and the Raven Freya magwell - the magazine body would actually slightly twist when inserted into the pistol, just enough that the base pad would catch on the magwell. Not sure if the integral magwell on the G19M could cause a similar issue? Totally spitballing here, but thought it interesting that this issue is also related to older G19 magazines.

http://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/n-63unu/uxoc9dc/product_images/uploaded_images/6b141e94-7e5f-4897-a3cd-8b15fb423ca4.jpg?t=1466624338https://www.austereprovisions.com/v/vspfiles/photos/RCS-FMW-19-4-3.jpg

[rojocorsa]

How come the latest factory Glock mags don't have that metal spot on the front, and they also don't say "austria" like they've always said?

[BigT]

How come the latest factory Glock mags don't have that metal spot on the front, and they also don't say "austria" like they've always said?

The exposed metal on the front was the cut out for the ambi mag release models. Of which numbers were pretty limited. Looks like they've changed the mags to no longer support them.

On the 19 mag compatability issue my guess is the issues are with the much older ever so slightly shorter ones.

[RAM Engineer]

Since the M model front strap cutout was FBI requested, I'm hoping that's not something that will make it to the public's "Gen 5".

[M2CattleCo]

How come the latest factory Glock mags don't have that metal spot on the front, and they also don't say "austria" like they've always said?


The metal cutouts were for the sf type ambi mag release that never made it to market on the 9/40/357s, the mags mags made here are stamped with a number instead of Austria.

I like the new mags. The cutouts were an afterthought. The new mold looks a lot better.

[BigT]

The metal cutouts were for the sf type ambi mag release that never made it to market on the 9/40/357s, the mags mags made here are stamped with a number instead of Austria.

I like the new mags. The cutouts were an afterthought. The new mold looks a lot better.

There are ambi mag cut pistols in at least 9mm in the wild. Possibly not in the US though.

[M2CattleCo]

Nope. Afaik, none in the US.

[ffhounddog]

Do you have a picture. Sorry been buying Magpul Glock mags and HK P30/VP9 mags since the election madness.

[BN]

There are ambi mag cut pistols in at least 9mm in the wild. Possibly not in the US though.

What kind of mags are these? They are all marked Austria. All 9mm.

14873

[El Cid]

What kind of mags are these? They are all marked Austria. All 9mm.

14873

I think he meant that the mags were sold here, but not the guns. The only guns in the US that use the metal cutout were the G21SF with locating rail. Nobody has ever seen a 9/40 size gun with that ambi may catch in the US.

[BigT]

What kind of mags are these? They are all marked Austria. All 9mm.

14873

Yup I meant the guns not the mags I know you have the mags because we all get the same mags

[BN]

I stand corrected. :)

[m.mancini]

Yup I meant the guns not the mags I know you have the mags because we all get the same mags

Glock actually sold a ton of those magazines in european countries, and they came together with a specific gun variant called ex. G17MB. The flimsy ambi mag releases on those guns started failing (falling into pieces) magnificently right upon the new models' release, and after a while we didnt hear about the MB variants anymore, and the Gen4s started popping out after a while (story from 2009-2010, in those years I was working for a major EU Glock distributor). From 2014 (maybe sooner) onwards as far as I know EU manufactured magazines dont have the MB ambi cutout anymore.
M.

[M2CattleCo]

We had a 21sf with that mag release here and it was a flop too.

[Billy]

Hi everybody !

I have a few questions for those who have 19Ms and are in the know.

On another forum I came across a picture of a 19M with a more subtle maxwell and no front strap cut

15599

So I was wondering, since Glock reluctantly accepted to put a mag well on its M versions for the FBI contract, do you have any info about a mag well for the upcoming Gen 5 ? Perhaps the picture I posted indicates what the Gen 5 will look like. On Lightfighter a guy that proved to be a reliable source was heading in the same direction as me, that there would be no mag well and front strap cut on the next gen.

Is the front strap cut really bothering ? How does the mag well feels ? Does the gun works fine with tactical lights ? I saw a picture of one with an Inforce APL here if I remember correctly. I've read about arelease at the NRA show next month or at Shot show 2018 (yeah really). What's your take on this ?

Thanks for your answers.

[Gio]

Hi everybody !

I have a few questions for those who have 19Ms and are in the know.

On another forum I came across a picture of a 19M with a more subtle maxwell and no front strap cut

15599

So I was wondering, since Glock reluctantly accepted to put a mag well on its M versions for the FBI contract, do you have any info about a mag well for the upcoming Gen 5 ? Perhaps the picture I posted indicates what the Gen 5 will look like. On Lightfighter a guy that proved to be a reliable source was heading in the same direction as me, that there would be no mag well and front strap cut on the next gen.

Is the front strap cut really bothering ? How does the mag well feels ? Does the gun works fine with tactical lights ? I saw a picture of one with an Inforce APL here if I remember correctly. I've read about arelease at the NRA show next month or at Shot show 2018 (yeah really). What's your take on this ?

Thanks for your answers.

Is that a photoshop predicting what the gen5 will look like or someone's actual gun? I've handled and shot a few 19M's, and have not seen any that look like that.

[Nephrology]

Is that a photoshop predicting what the gen5 will look like or someone's actual gun? I've handled and shot a few 19M's, and have not seen any that look like that.

It's a pretty convincing photoshop if so. I don't see any telltale signs that suggest it's been altered but admittedly I am no expert either.

[El Cid]

It's a pretty convincing photoshop if so. I don't see any telltale signs that suggest it's been altered but admittedly I am no expert either.

It has the darker, almost black slide, single pin, and smooth trigger of the 19M. Tough to tell.

[Gray222]

I thought all M-series Glocks came with the FBI sights?

That shitty chop doesn't have them.

[Billy]

I found other pics. Apparently the gun is legit and there are few of them in that configuration out there. That is why I was intrigued.

15600

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_13/173747_Glock-Gen-5-.html&page=2

[Gray222]

my fbi sights compared to the alleged photo taken:

http://i.imgur.com/FGSBhWL.jpg

Don't know what type of sights that thing has, but I know for fact mine are legit...

[M2CattleCo]

Those are almost definitely stock Glock night sights.

[5pins]

The 17M and 19M I shot had standard Glock night sights.

[PearTree]

My only question about the picture is why does the front strap not have the magazine cutout? Looking back to other photos I see all of them having the cutout yet this one does not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[El Cid]

My only question about the picture is why does the front strap not have the magazine cutout? Looking back to other photos I see all of them having the cutout yet this one does not.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

The ones I've seen in the wild had the cut out, but they were all with the same agency. It's not inconceivable that an agency could ask Glock to leave the material there.

[PearTree]

The ones I've seen in the wild had the cut out, but they were all with the same agency. It's not inconceivable that an agency could ask Glock to leave the material there.
Makes sense. I will be getting my 17m in the next few weeks, so it will be interesting to see what comes on mine. I will be much less enthused if it comes with Glock night sights and no extended slide stop like the most recent picture. We aren't allowed to modify anything on our weapons, including sights, and I hate Glock night sights and standard slide stops.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[El Cid]

Makes sense. I will be getting my 17m in the next few weeks, so it will be interesting to see what comes on mine. I will be much less enthused if it comes with Glock night sights and no extended slide stop like the most recent picture. We aren't allowed to modify anything on our weapons, including sights, and I hate Glock night sights and standard slide stops.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

During a phone conversation with one of the Glock reps in Smyrna I asked if they were going to offer a version where it's extended on one side and regular on the other. He liked the idea and said he'll forward it but I was surprised they hadn't already thought of that.

[Billy]

The ones I've seen in the wild had the cut out, but they were all with the same agency. It's not inconceivable that an agency could ask Glock to leave the material there.

It was perhaps a first production run, before switching to the front cut and the magwell.

Apparently there are news here, but for a strange reason I can't access the website. Can someone post the pictures and tell what it is all about ?

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/gen-4-glock-updates-gen-5-m-sneak-peeks/?utm_source=email&utm_medium=20170414_FridayDigest_117&utm_campaign=/blog/gen-4-glock-updates-gen-5-m-sneak-peeks/

Edit: I found another website. Still the M model apparently, not the Gen 5
https://handgunplanet.com/review/glock-17m-the-inside-scoop-photo-documentary/

[RAM Engineer]

My completely uninformed guess:

17M/19M - Contract model with cutout and magwell and "FBI sights"

Gen5 - as pictured above with Glock's new steel sights.

Give me a Gen5 with MOS slides and I'll buy them all day long. Remember, the cutout was specified by the FBI. Glock did it against their will.

[Billy]

My completely uninformed guess:

17M/19M - Contract model with cutout and magwell and "FBI sights"

Gen5 - as pictured above with Glock's new steel sights.

Give me a Gen5 with MOS slides and I'll buy them all day long. Remember, the cutout was specified by the FBI. Glock did it against their will.

It's my take on this too. Since they were "forced" to put a magwell and front cut for the M model, I don't see them putting them on the Gen 5. The 19M picture I posted last page might well look like the future Gen 5. And boy it's gorgeous.

I guess the "specialised" press cannot make the distinction between the two yet.

[RAM Engineer]

Crystal ball prediction: Once the 19M starts getting wide fielding, they'll get enough complaints about that front cut-out up the chain that the FBI will ask Glock to remove it.

[Billy]

Crystal ball prediction: Once the 19M starts getting wide fielding, they'll get enough complaints about that front cut-out up the chain that the FBI will ask Glock to remove it.

Ahahah that would be a funny one !

[M2CattleCo]

Crystal ball prediction: Once the 19M starts getting wide fielding, they'll get enough complaints about that front cut-out up the chain that the FBI will ask Glock to remove it.

I wouldn't doubt it. I hated the 19/23 until the Gen3 came out because of the cut. It doesn't bother me on the full size.

[HCM]

Crystal ball prediction: Once the 19M starts getting wide fielding, they'll get enough complaints about that front cut-out up the chain that the FBI will ask Glock to remove it.

I'm sorry but this statement tells me you don't understand how the .GOV works, particularly in an LE Agency.

As for the cut out itself, I've shot a Gen 2 Glock 19 since 1992 and it never bothered me. It is more pronounced on the one 19M I've messed with due to the mag well flare but if it bothers an Agent on a 19M the most likely answer will be to simply give them a 17M.

[RAM Engineer]

I'm sorry but this statement tells me you don't understand how the .GOV works, particularly in an LE Agency.

Your only half right. But I am aware of the FBI's history with their semi-auto procurement.

"Give us a frame mounted decocker!"

"Uhh...never mind..."

[L-2]

Regarding ".gov" changes, the prior Glock 22 for the FBI (whether any Gen4 models were issued, I don't know) lasted ~20 years.
I suspect the FBI will keep its 17M and 19M models for as long as possible or practical, unless something terribly bad results from this firearm platform.
One consideration is night-sight life being ~12 years. With the cost of a set of night-sights and the logistics (other unrelated maintenance parts, time, transportation, documentation, procurement) it becomes arguable to just replace the entire group of firearms.

Budget requests and the timing of such can take a committee to accomplish. Years can go by depending on priorities with firearms being passed over. I suspect nobody (in the FBI) is working on the next handgun project right now or yet. Getting something like this "right" the first time is very important. Can someone imagine, "We don't like the mag cut out notch and flared magwell after all. Let's just do it all over again and ask for another $85 million (in budget)."

To what extent there was overlap between the prior SIG P-series models is also unknown by me. Some large organizations do prefer to standardize rather than giving too many options when it comes to handguns. Prior to that, a short-lived 10mm S&W attempt; S&W 9mm 459, and revolvers.

SWAT/HRT (special teams) in an organization is different. It's smaller and due to tech advances and the political visibility of these units, can get things faster and changes implemented faster (more agile is good terminology). From my recollection, SWAT and HRT personnel have used the Browning Hi-Power, SIG P226, and Springfield-Armory "Professional" 1911(s), with Glock in there, too.

This is all from my recollection from just an informal study as I've not worked or had much contact with them at all.

[HCM]

Your only half right. But I am aware of the FBI's history with their semi-auto procurement.

"Give us a frame mounted decocker!"

"Uhh...never mind..."

How about - let's give plainclothes Agents a gun with a frame mounted decocker which is the size of a box of Wheaties and tell them the have to conceal it.

At least they finally learned one size does not fit all.

[HCM]

Regarding ".gov" changes, the prior Glock 22 for the FBI (whether any Gen4 models were issued, I don't know) lasted ~20 years.
I suspect the FBI will keep its 17M and 19M models for as long as possible or practical, unless something terribly bad results from this firearm platform.
One consideration is night-sight life being ~12 years. With the cost of a set of night-sights and the logistics (other unrelated maintenance parts, time, transportation, documentation, procurement) it becomes arguable to just replace the entire group of firearms.

Budget requests and the timing of such can take a committee to accomplish. Years can go by depending on priorities with firearms being passed over. I suspect nobody (in the FBI) is working on the next handgun project right now or yet. Getting something like this "right" the first time is very important. Can someone imagine, "We don't like the mag cut out notch and flared magwell after all. Let's just do it all over again and ask for another $85 million (in budget)."

To what extent there was overlap between the prior SIG P-series models is also unknown by me. Some large organizations do prefer to standardize rather than giving too many options when it comes to handguns. Prior to that, a short-lived 10mm S&W attempt; S&W 9mm 459, and revolvers.

SWAT/HRT (special teams) in an organization is different. It's smaller and due to tech advances and the political visibility of these units, can get things faster and changes implemented faster (more agile is good terminology). From my recollection, SWAT and HRT personnel have used the Browning Hi-Power, SIG P226, and Springfield-Armory "Professional" 1911(s), with Glock in there, too.

This is all from my recollection from just an informal study as I've not worked or had much contact with them at all.

New issue guns went from Gen 3 22's to Gen 4 22's within the past few years, with Gen4 17's as an issued option for those struggling with the .40.

SIG P series guns were grandfathered if approved prior to certain dates but it is my understanding all are now out of service.

1911's and Glock 21's are also grandfathered if previously approved. All current POW options are 9mm.

[El Cid]

New issue guns went from Gen 3 22's to Gen 4 22's within the past few years, with Gen4 17's as an issued option for those struggling with the .40.

They did issue Gen 3 G23's for a couple years between the Gen 3 and 4 G22's. I know for sure in 2009 and maybe 2010.




At least they finally learned one size does not fit all.

Maybe not. A reliable source tells me they are only giving regular agents a 19M. The 17M is only for SWAT/HRT. It sucks for some because I know several of their people who ran out and bought Gen 4 19's as soon as they returned to the POW list in 2014/2015. They'd prefer to be issued a 17M but the answer was no.

[HCM]

They did issue Gen 3 G23's for a couple years between the Gen 3 and 4 G22's. I know for sure in 2009 and maybe 2010.



Maybe not. A reliable source tells me they are only giving regular agents a 19M. The 17M is only for SWAT/HRT. It sucks for some because I know several of their people who ran out and bought Gen 4 19's as soon as they returned to the POW list in 2014/2015. They'd prefer to be issued a 17M but the answer was no.

At least they still have the option of buying a POW 17M.

I spent several years under "Henry Ford" policies. i.e. Everyone will carry X. No POW option.

[El Cid]

At least they still have the option of buying a POW 17M.

I spent several years under "Henry Ford" policies. i.e. Everyone will carry X. No POW option.

Agreed. The initial word from on high though was agents could request a 17M in place of a 19M. Now those who bought a 19 end up with 2. Plus not everyone fits a 19M and may need a 17M. But yes, y'all had it worse. Hell, BP and I think CBP are still not permitted to carry a BUG. That to me is sad.

[HCM]

Agreed. The initial word from on high though was agents could request a 17M in place of a 19M. Now those who bought a 19 end up with 2. Plus not everyone fits a 19M and may need a 17M. But yes, y'all had it worse. Hell, BP and I think CBP are still not permitted to carry a BUG. That to me is sad.

Yup. CBP can carry what ever they want as long as its a GOV issued P2000 LEM 40. At least it has grip options.

[Surf]

Played with some dudes 19M. Meh. I would be much more interested in a 17M, but it is still lacking in some easy fixes that could be simple modifications provided from the manufacturer. But we have been saying that for a long time. Not to totally dig on Glock but they did have some forward thought. They could stand a good bit more forward thinking when it comes to a Gen 5. Not holding my breath.

[octagon]

Played with some dudes 19M. Meh. I would be much more interested in a 17M, but it is still lacking in some easy fixes that could be simple modifications provided from the manufacturer. But we have been saying that for a long time. Not to totally dig on Glock but they did have some forward thought. They could stand a good bit more forward thinking when it comes to a Gen 5. Not holding my breath.

I'm curious what features Glock has had in some versions that you would like to see all in one version or your best Gen 5?

Me i would like to see the Gen 4 grip sans finger grooves, Gen 4 RSA,smooth face trigger, Gen 4 mag button and wedge front of slide cut with LCI extractor with MOS plate as an option. Basically a Gen 4 MOS with smooth face trigger in a 19 I guess.

[5pins]

Yup. CBP can carry what ever they want as long as its a GOV issued P2000 LEM 40. At least it has grip options.

The Marine side of CBP’s Air and Marine Operations (AMO) carry Glock 23’s

[HCM]

The Marine side of CBP’s Air and Marine Operations (AMO) carry Glock 23’s

My understanding was those were "obtained" before AMO returned to CBP and are therefore grandfathered. BORTAC has P30L's with the TLG LEM but they are drops in the bucket. Even so, they are restricted to the one .GOV issued gun.

[5pins]

My understanding was those were "obtained" before AMO returned to CBP and are therefore grandfathered. BORTAC has P30L's with the TLG LEM but they are drops in the bucket. Even so, they are restricted to the one .GOV issued gun.

No their still buying them. In fact they just bought some Gen 4 23’s for an upcoming academy class.

[Surf]

I'm curious what features Glock has had in some versions that you would like to see all in one version or your best Gen 5?

Me i would like to see the Gen 4 grip sans finger grooves, Gen 4 RSA,smooth face trigger, Gen 4 mag button and wedge front of slide cut with LCI extractor with MOS plate as an option. Basically a Gen 4 MOS with smooth face trigger in a 19 I guess.The removal of the finger grooves, flare in the magwell and cutout on the frontstrap are all steps in the correct direction. I would also like to see;

- Front serrations that are not too close to the muzzle
- Increased radius or dehorning around the sides of the bottom of the trigger guard
- Larger trigger guard hole, by making space from the inner dimension.
- Elimination of the hump on the backstrap whereas you could make up for that with the addition of backstraps if desired, especially on the 19.
- Close the hole in the bottom of the grip to match the magwell flare
- While not bad, the magazine release button can still be improved
- A more pronounced slide lock, not a rear swept design, but more Vickers like
- Flat face, straight trigger
- MOS concept with cover plate as a standard feature
- More space or a larger gap where the trigger guard meets the grip

But if they fixed all of these things, some people would be out of the Glocksmithing business. ;)

[Billy]

There are pictures of an alleged Gen 5 on GlockTalk. No magwell (or at least it is more subtle) no cutout. Seems legit to me. It looks like the pictures of the 19M without the magwell and cutout I posted a few days ago.

[Billy]

So apparently the USMC "might" be getting Glock 19M, for its Raiders. I stumbled across this thread on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/USMC/comments/657hch/the_new_usmc_glock_19m/

Military Arms Channel is the original source, but I can't access his patreon page, where the original picture was posted, and where there might be more information.
I also came across the instagram page of a Marine armorer who basically said the same stuff and even posted pictures of an 19M.

[KevH]

Spoke to a Glock rep yesterday who said these are coming "soon." Hopefully soon is within the next couple months.

I'm on a waiting list at the local Glock distributor for a 19m.