Article: "What's quieting the silencer industry?"

[LittleLebowski]

http://www.recoilweb.com/whats-quieting-the-silencer-industry-126010.html


A perfect storm of bad news, good news, and overcrowding has caused a glitch in the fastest growing segment of the shooting industry – and silencer manufacturers are dealing with their first real market adjustment.

[JSGlock34]

Interesting analysis - TFB referenced the Recoil piece in this story about Silencerco.

TFB: BREAKING: SilencerCo Reduces Its Workforce (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/03/breaking-silencerco-reduces-workforce/)

[voodoo_man]

Not going to say I didn't see it coming, I said when 41p came out that I will not buy anything once 41f comes around unless I absolutely need it. With that said in the middle of that whole mess Trump and HPA happened. I have several cans in a safe at a shop and was considering multiple sbrs. Now that HPA is even a remote reality, I'm not doing anything on the suppressor front other than waiting.

How can someone justify spending $200 per stamp and waiting closer to a year when the HPA can be randomly voted on and passed?

[LOKNLOD]

Interesting analysis - TFB referenced the Recoil piece in this story about Silencerco.

TFB: BREAKING: SilencerCo Reduces Its Workforce (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/03/breaking-silencerco-reduces-workforce/)

I know this is headed down a legislative path rather than executive, but somebody needs to play up the "killing small businesses!!!" angle with Trump and light a fire* or two.


*Figuratively, not Berkley protester style.

[joshs]

Not going to say I didn't see it coming, I said when 41p came out that I will not buy anything once 41f comes around unless I absolutely need it. With that said in the middle of that whole mess Trump and HPA happened. I have several cans in a safe at a shop and was considering multiple sbrs. Now that HPA is even a remote reality, I'm not doing anything on the suppressor front other than waiting.

How can someone justify spending $200 per stamp and waiting closer to a year when the HPA can be randomly voted on and passed?
Because it may take years for supply to catch up with demand once the HPA passes and the HPA also has a tax refund for every can purchased after October 22, 2015.

[voodoo_man]

Because it may take years for supply to catch up with demand once the HPA passes and the HPA also has a tax refund for every can purchased after October 22, 2015.

Supply, as in suppressors in stock?

No comment as to when HPA can pass?

[SeriousStudent]

I'm buying cans now. I have some here in the safe, and seven more in the approval process.

If HPA passes, I hop in the car and go pick them up. If it does not, I've still got the cans coming.

The $200 fee is simply baksheesh for some hourly .gov employee to sign their name. Just like some other countries I have visited, it's merely the cost of doing business.

I pay it, and move on.

[MistWolf]

Not going to say I didn't see it coming, I said when 41p came out that I will not buy anything once 41f comes around unless I absolutely need it. With that said in the middle of that whole mess Trump and HPA happened. I have several cans in a safe at a shop and was considering multiple sbrs. Now that HPA is even a remote reality, I'm not doing anything on the suppressor front other than waiting.

How can someone justify spending $200 per stamp and waiting closer to a year when the HPA can be randomly voted on and passed?

Because it may not pass. I've got plans for at least three more silencers and if I had the funds, I'd purchase them to morrow and start the paperwork. It may cost more, but sometimes you pay more to shoot today instead of waiting months for "a better deal"


I know this is headed down a legislative path rather than executive, but somebody needs to play up the "killing small businesses!!!" angle with Trump and light a fire* or two

Call your representative and tell them to get this bill out of committee and on to the floor for a vote before it dies. That will get the bill going quicker than waiting for the president to do something


Because it may take years for supply to catch up with demand once the HPA passes and the HPA also has a tax refund for every can purchased after October 22, 2015.

It will only take years if silencer companies don't know how to make silencers. Silencers aren't difficult to make. If HPA passes, we'll not only see a rapid growth in demand but an explosion in offerings. One of the first things we'll see are cheaper, less durable silencers because in reality, they are consumable items

[Hambo]

No comment as to when HPA can pass?

Do you really think it will get to the floor for a vote soon? Other than confirmations I haven't seen much action in Congress, but let's say it gets to a vote. There is no saying it that it will be voted on in the form it was proposed. Changes and amendments happen. Or maybe the Republicans get slaughtered in '18. Or Trump is a one hit wonder. You get the idea.

SeriousStudent is on the right path. If you want it and you have the $, get it and don't look back.

[voodoo_man]

Trump has been filling his campaign promises. His son is someone who is an advocate for the HPA and based on the interview Silencerco did with him, it would seem to me that this would be a top priority for his son. Maybe not year one, maybe not year two. Either way, like I said, I've got can's I already purchased. Do I want to go through the 41F hassle? Dump tax stamps and wait what would possibly be the time it takes for HPA to pass? Not really.

If I was the only one thinking this the can industry wouldn't be in the situation it is now.

[Mike C]

I know this is probably going to be looked at pretty negatively but they should have just left the blood money on the table and just settled for filling out a long form. They (I.E. the dirt bags that be) would me more interested if the money was left alone. Like someone else said, cost of doing business. I would settle for starting there and work easing into things. Chances are we would make more ground that way.

[joshs]

I know this is probably going to be looked at pretty negatively but they should have just left the blood money on the table and just settled for filling out a long form. They (I.E. the dirt bags that be) would me more interested if the money was left alone. Like someone else said, cost of doing business. I would settle for starting there and work easing into things. Chances are we would make more ground that way.


That's not much of a problem. The problem is getting 60 votes in the Senate.

[ST911]

Looking at some folks around me... Some of suppressor interest is simply a fad that's seeing an adjustment. Folks that bought cans realized that they had to tweak their barrels, muzzle devices, springs, etc. The incompetently handloaded ammo that barely worked in their stock service pistol didn't cut it with a can. Shooting zombie targets or tin cans on square ranges lost its luster. With cut corners leading to failing gear, and having satisfied their "me too", they ran out of money, patience, and motivation.

Stamps, wait times, and 41F is everybody else and I suspect the minority.

[CCT125US]

His son is someone who is an advocate for the HPA and based on the interview Silencerco did with him, it would seem to me that this would be a top priority for his son.

For those that missed it:

https://silencerco.com/blog/2016/09/25/trump-jr-interview/

[BWT]

I think all of the firearms are going to feel the bind the next few years.

Trump was elected and is pushing for what appears to be a Pro 2A Justice.

Also the fear of impending 41P/41F drove sales through the roof.

I think the consumer isn't fear driven any longer.

God Bless,

Brandon

ETA: Also, Mike Pappas being fired and starting Dead Air and Henry Graham owner of SWR (acquired by Silencerco) leaving and starting Rugged Suppressors. Their talent pool has shrunk and they've spawned two new competitors.

[mtnbkr]

41F is not a concern to me. Having hundreds of dollars tied up in something I can't possess for several months is. I was willing to tolerate it when the wait was officially 3-4 months, but after submission, my wait kept growing until it eventually became an 8 month process. Had I known it would be 8 months, I'm not sure I would have made the leap.

I have a couple rifles that could utilize a can, but the use cases are not as solid as the one for my 22lr pistol (ie being able to shoot without hearing protection "out in the woods"), so I'll wait until HPA passes or at least the NFA-wait is down to a reasonable level. Since those rifles are primarily shot at ranges where hearing protection is required (other shooters, rules, etc), there's no benefit to me like there was with the rimfire can.

Chris

[Hambo]

Some of suppressor interest is simply a fad that's seeing an adjustment.


I think all of the firearms are going to feel the bind the next few years...I think the consumer isn't fear driven any longer.

These are two important points. The firearms industry enjoyed eight years of induced panic and raked in the cash. Those days are over.

[Vic51]

They may be waiting for the Republicans to pass a law doing away for the current licensing/application process for a suppressor. One or two companies are making guns with suppressors a permanent part of the gun. Those would be perfect for home defense use. Contrary to popular belief, suppressors are not as quiet as they show in the Movies. With subsonic .22's they can be very quiet but once you go larger they basically suppress sound to a little below ear damaging level. They do not go pffffttt like portrayed on visual media. :)

They also make your gun barrel heavy and require that you install a tall front sight if not already on a suppressor ready gun. Still, they have their uses at the range and at home. With the right subsonic ammo and good suppressor you can shoot without damaging your ears. How did I get through a year of combat, in the mobile artillery, mechanized Calvary, 20 years of range and competition shooting without ear protection and yet passed my hearing test last week at the age of 65 1/2 years old? Loud noises may make your ears ring but normally do incremental damage, not sudden deafness. I have had my ears ring for 12 hours at times. I guess it is an individual thing as to how much ear damage is done. My cousin is almost deaf at 70 from just guarding missile silos that generated high pitched barely audible noises. I would get a suppressor if they can be bought with no hassle. I will put it on my Sig P226 which I use as my range gun. Under current law, your suppressor can only be used for the gun it is registered for. That also causes a problem in selling them for civilians. In my day you had to fill them for oil and clean and change it. It was a chore and much easier to just put on ear muffs.

[LittleLebowski]

I did the mech infantry/infantry thing in the Corps and attribute my passing the hearing test to the VA having shitty hearing standards. They still gave me 10% for ringing ears, though.

[ReverendMeat]

Under current law, your suppressor can only be used for the gun it is registered for.

That isn't true at all.

[Soggy]

That isn't true at all.

Thanks, I was just about to ask that.

This thread and the linked articles have convinced me that now is the time for me to take the plunge. If nobody is buying then wait times may come down very quickly once the backlog is cleared. And if not, well, putting my faith in republicans in the house and senate is like Charlie Brown trusting Lucy with the football. Even if they do want to move on the bill, the D's need to keep their base happy also.

Regarding the market: 44mag.com is sitting on a ton of magazines, like I'm sure other places. You can get 30rd okay mags for 9.99 and free shipping. This will be a very grim year for retailers and manufacturers, and it will only get worst. Which means: It is the perfect time to buy before the inventory gets cleared and supply is back in balance.

So, should I start a different thread to talk about what is new in .22 rimfire cans?

[LittleLebowski]

That isn't true at all.

Yup, you can use it for any weapon it works with.

[LittleLebowski]

So, should I start a different thread to talk about what is new in .22 rimfire cans?

Go for it!

[HCM]

Under current law, your suppressor can only be used for the gun it is registered for.

This has never been the case. Suppressors were and are regulated under the National Firearma Act of 1934. The suppressor is a serialized item independently regulated and lawfully acquired and possessed via it's own NFA Tax Stamp.

As noted, you can use your suppressor on any gun which will accommodate it.

Personally, I had a pistol can years ago and sold it after the novelty wore off. I find rifle cans and .22 cans much more practical.

[minengr]

As a resident of Illinois, the HPA is my only hope short of moving. We finally got CCW, so there is always a chance.

[Westtexasrancher]

I went from zero to ordering 3 this past feb, because of 41f.


After not receiving them until december, I am done buying them. That left a bad taste in my mouth. I got 2 dead air masks and a sico hybrid, so Ive covered my bases.

IF they were removed from the nfa and no tax stamp applied, I still probably wouldnt buy more, but I would start machining a few.

[joshs]

As a resident of Illinois, the HPA is my only hope short of moving. We finally got CCW, so there is always a chance.

The HPA won't affect laws in states that currently prohibit suppressors. That said, there is currently a bill in the Illinois senate to legalize at least some suppressor ownership.

[RevolverRob]

The HPA won't affect laws in states that currently prohibit suppressors. That said, there is currently a bill in the Illinois senate to legalize at least some suppressor ownership.

It would be nice if they removed the onerous restrictions on possession of suppressors here (i.e, you can't...).

As a Texas resident, I can buy all the cans I want. The trouble is, living part-time in Illinois, I cannot possess any of those suppressors here. Which sort of defeats the purpose of owning a suppressor if you can't use it.

[MistWolf]

In the state of Washington, it was legal to own a silencer, but not legal to own one. Even so, if you were caught shooting one, it was a minor infraction and the police could only write you a ticket. It was understood that if you were at the range and the police showed up, you simply posted to let the officer shoot your suppressed weapon and there would be no tickets. This worked because there was no exception to the law for LEO.

Since then, Washington has changed the law so it's legal to shoot them

[Drang]

In the state of Washington, it was legal to own a silencer, but not legal to use one. Even so, if you were caught shooting one, it was a minor infraction and the police could only write you a ticket. It was understood that if you were at the range and the police showed up, you simply posted to let the officer shoot your suppressed weapon and there would be no tickets. This worked because there was no exception to the law for LEO.

Since then, Washington has changed the law so it's legal to shoot them
Corrected, although everyone knew what MistWolf meant.
Allegedly, "use" meant "attach to gun."
Also, the law was written to ban "use" of "noise reducing devices", which, of course, implied that muffs and plugs were illegal...

[fishing]

Corrected, although everyone knew what MistWolf meant.
Allegedly, "use" meant "attach to gun."
Also, the law was written to ban "use" of "noise reducing devices", which, of course, implied that muffs and plugs were illegal...

oh please, i assume you are being farcical.
RCW 9.41.250 in it's old wording was never implying that muffs and plugs were illegal.