Single shotgun to do everything with barrel/mag-tube changes - myth or reality?

[rob_s]

Caveat: semi-auto.

I'm wondering if the old standard of "buy one shotgun to do everything and just change out the barrel" is true in the semi-auto world these days, or not? or, if true, how true? Meaning, how much do you give up in any one category to be able to own just one gun? My thoughts are it should be able to do clays (and live birds?), self-defense, and 3-gun with the same stock and receiver but allow one to do any of the three simply by changing the barrel and mag tube.

Also, if true, to whatever degree, how much extra effort does it take?

is there an issue of stock length being too different between the three applications? Controls or bolt handles, etc.?

Finally, if deemed valid a concept, which make/model of shotgun best provides for this?

[Poconnor]

My first question would be why? Is it a question of money or being limited with the number of weapons allowed by law or circumstance?
I know you specified a semi auto but used 870s are cheap. I keep a dedicated 870 for home defense. I have other shotguns for hunting. If you stuck to one shotgun you would have clean it And swap barrels to get it ready after you went hunting. Hopefully you will be busy with game to clean. For semi autos I would get a beretta 1301 and a beretta a300 for hunting

[mmc45414]

I say yes, but the tough thing is how much the barrels can cost for guns other than Remington. I love my Beretta Extreama, but spare barrels cost as much as an 1187.

Another consideration would be optics, if you want a dot it is probably gonna be high enough you will want a higher cheek piece. I think I would be able to defend myself with a shotgun without sights, but I shoot skeet once a week all summer. If you expect a shotgun to fill in for a carbine at distance you probably want them, but I am of the opinion that if I can break a 40mph crossing target at 20yds with a bead I could do the same with an adversary. I also think much of the three gun shotgun stuff requires feats outside of a most realistic shotgun engagement, but that is strictly opinion of somebody that has no pedigree.

So I think it is feasible, but might not be economically feasible, if you contemplate spending $700 barrels for a $1200 gun. But you could do a hell of a lot with a $530 1187 Sportsman, and extra barrels are cheap.

Mag extensions are simple, consider one of the modular ones like Nordic, you can have a short tube for a short barrel and then get a longer tube section if you ever want to use it with a long barrel. PS: That hole in the end of the extension is for venting air and water, but also for shoving a cleaning rod through to wrestle the springs. And I sure wish I had learned that earlier in life...

So I would say that yes, it is realistic, if you stick with Remington or probably Mossberg, and don't expect to run an optic.

I will also add that the clay sports are a metric shitload of fun. We have a group that shows up for skeet most Wednesdays after work (during DST), it is between three and eight guys, depending on who is busy or traveling at work. It is just great comradery, last summer I had a shoulder injury and I would go run the buttons just to hang with my buddies.

[ASH556]

Caveat: semi-auto.

I'm wondering if the old standard of "buy one shotgun to do everything and just change out the barrel" is true in the semi-auto world these days, or not? or, if true, how true? Meaning, how much do you give up in any one category to be able to own just one gun? My thoughts are it should be able to do clays (and live birds?), self-defense, and 3-gun with the same stock and receiver but allow one to do any of the three simply by changing the barrel and mag tube.

Also, if true, to whatever degree, how much extra effort does it take?

is there an issue of stock length being too different between the three applications? Controls or bolt handles, etc.?

Finally, if deemed valid a concept, which make/model of shotgun best provides for this?

Not worth it, or, be prepared to compromise. I've btdt with Benelli (best platform imho for semi-auto). I had an M1 with a 28" VR field barrel and an 18" rifle-sighted barrel. Here are the potential problems:

1. If you want to be serious about 3gun, you need a 12 round magazine tube. That is exceptionally long for HD or bird hunting. You can swap tubes, but remember you'll also be swapping springs. 3 potential lengths for your scenario.
2. If you want to be serious about 3gun, you need to have your loading port enlarged and polished. Not a super huge deal, but aesthetically not pleasing for a clay or bird gun.
3. If you choose to go with Benelli, additional barrels are $450+ apiece. At some point, it just makes more sense to buy another gun instead.
4. If you want a weapon light on the gun for HD, the best route is probably some sort of clamped rail. If you use Nordic (and most others I know of) you'll need an allen wrench to take the gun down and do the barrel/mag tube change. Just a PITA.
5. Shotgun ammo is relatively fragile with the crimped plastic hull. I ruined a couple rounds of FED LE1321B from loading and unloading too much and the crimp began to fail, dumping white powder all into my shotgun...no bueno.

I decided to do it all with one gun, but accepted the compromises. My one gun is a 21" VR Benelli M1. It's short enough for HD, great for 3gun, and works for most all clays and birds (chokes become more important). You mention controls and bolt handles: I have a Nordic large (but not the huge one) bolt handle, a TTI extended and polished lifter, and an older OEM Benelli oversized and ambidextrous safety. I do not use any oversized bolt release devices. A +5B tube from Nordic fits flash with my 21" barrel and gives me a magazine capacity of 3+5=8. My gun will ghost load (carry a shell on the lifter beneath the bolt) so my effective HD capacity is 8+1+1=10. I also have the Nordic MXT Plug Cap, which screws into the MXT barrel nut, but has a sling QD in the end of it and returns the shotgun to "factory capacity". Quicker and easier to change mags than having to remove the barrel. The gun runs everything from reduced recoil slugs, buck, and 1200 fps target loads up to 3" crazy stuff without hiccup.

The tradeoffs:
1. No WML
2. I could buy a longer mag tube for 3gun if I wanted to, but I've backed off of that with my 2 boys and #3 on the way. The +8 puts you in Factory class, which is fine with me for now. I also don't have the loading port enlarged or beveled on this gun, so my reloads are a bit slower.

Hope this helps, and here's some pics for reference:

My 28" gun ready to race and win before I sold it:
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/C080CEC4-8B10-4EF1-AA48-E556D1277D8E.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/A9D562FF-964A-4787-8852-24F12140C4DF.jpg
http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/EF70786D-473E-44CC-B7D1-59F309E3B86D.jpg

My 21" configuration (I no longer use the choke tube or mag clamp pictured. Just flush chokes and no clamp now.

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_8118_1.jpg

Here's the 21" next to a 14.5" carbine to give an idea of overall length:

http://i854.photobucket.com/albums/ab104/ASH556/IMG_8125_1.jpg

[vaspence]

There may be better options out there but my choice is similar to Ash556's. I have an M1 with a 26" barrel and a 21" barrel. It has a factory extension for around the house, a Nordic tube for 3gun and no extension for hunting/clays. Both barrels take choke tubes. Between my oldest son and I, we've killed deer, turkeys, doves, ducks and geese with this shotgun. I shot some 3gun with it for a few years and he has shot a fair amount of clays with it.

Changing configurations doesn't take very long at all, 10 minutes?

No issue with the stock configuration at all on my end, all I'm really doing is adding length the grip doesn't change. The only addition to the gun other than mag tubes is a Dave Metal Works speedbar for the bolt release.

I have not shot 3gun in a long while but if the interest strikes me again I'd be fine using the M1 in our local matches. The pics below are from something I posted elsewhere a while back and show the load inclusive of one on the chamber, 2+1, 5+1, 8+1. You can add another round to those if you want to ghost a round.

13542

13543

13544

[Hambo]

Also, if true, to whatever degree, how much $$$$$ does it take?

As mmc45414 said, Remington is the cheapest way to go. I did it with a Benelli, but at the time it was hard to get the barrels I wanted for any price. Since the 3 gun matches I shot didn't allow 12 rounds tubes (or set the stages so they were a disadvantage) I got by with a tactical barrel and factory 4 shot extension. Even at that I ended up buying a second M1 and leaving the other for hunting and clays.

[txdpd]

Beretta 1301 comp with 24" barrel. Bit long for HD, bit short for ducks, good for evreything in the middle. More important than barrel length, is the adjustable LOP. A 14.5" LOP for shooting birds is no bueno for home defense, and vice versa.

[RevolverRob]

Anything is possible, if you spend enough money.

For the price of setting up a semi-auto with 3-4 barrels and 3-4 tube extensions. I can't imagine you're coming out much cheaper than two shotguns, one for hunting, and one for 3-gun/Defensive shooting. FWIW, I consider any barrel under 21" suitable for defensive use and that's about ideal for a fairly competitive 3-gun. If'n it was me, I'd get two Benelli M1s and call it a day.

As for LOP - everything is better with a 12.5-13" LOP for anyone under 6-feet in my experience. But if you're going to have one gun - all the time, custom fitting it to you - is the best way to go. In this framework, I'd probably also go red-dot optic on top and only swap barrels/extensions. Some time up-front figuring out your zeroes for different loads/chokes, will keep you close. Or you know, zero the thing with a cylinder choke and buckshot and know that anything else you shoot will be tighter than that.

[Rex G]

My only autoloader experience is with two Benellis, an M1 Super 90, in the early Nineties, and an M2. Barrels do swap easily enough, but the magazine tube extensions take a bit more time; that mag spring can be a pain to quickly install, even with a rod inserted into the hole to tame it. Looking at three-gun forums indicates that Benellis seem to be the most-desirable option, for those who can afford them, and can tolerate the recoil of such a light-weight weapon. (I have not participated in three-gun, though some of my LE training in the Nineties was "two-gun," with some fast-paced transitioning between shotgun and duty pistol. Lamentably, this training faded away when a particular instructor left the firearms training unit.)

My HK-era M1 Super 90 remained in its Tactical/LE configuration, as the ghost ring rear sight would not have mated well with a vent rib hunting/field barrel. I never liked the ghost ring set-up, and the plastic Monte Carlo-like stock was quite skimpy in dimensions, with a sharp comb, that I never learned to like. In hindsight, I should have kept it, because better stocks became available not long after I sold it. Reliability of ammo cycling was faultless, except when a side-saddle was mounted. I tossed the side-saddle.

My M2 is a Field Model, bought pre-owned recently, with a 28" barrel, that I have mated with an 18.5" Tactical barrel that I had bought some time ago in pre-owned but like-new condition. I test-fitted a Briley extension tube, which has two short Picatinney rails, and was reminded how much extra trouble it is to wrestle with a longer magazine spring. I decided to re-install the factory mag spring and cap, for the present, to simplify take-down for cleaning while I am testing different loads for function, P.O.I., patterning, and regaining familiarity. I really do like the Comfortech stock, which does a quite good job of mitigating recoil.

The M1 and M2 are inertia-operated, so hanging weight on them can affect reliability. One Youtube video, posted by a business that sells Benellis to LE, stated that no more than one pound of weight should be added to an M2. Presumably, this one-pound limit does not include the three to six shells in the factory magazine configurations, but does include the ammunition inside more-extended tubes and side-saddles, as well as any attached accessories, such as side-saddles and extended tubes. Stout loads are required to ensure reliable cycling, with few users posting that they can reliably use reduced/managed-recoil shells. So, stock design and good pads, plus technique, are the only ways to significantly mitigate recoil with the M1/M2 system, while maintaining reliabilty. (Actually, there is a factory accessory, an internal part, that allows more-reliable cycling with light loads, but I have not found whether it is a good idea for defensive shotguns, which MUST be reliable.)

[ranger]

Depends on how serious you are about the clay sports. Trap is different from Skeet and both are different from Sporting Clays and then FITASC is different too. I got to be a very active Clays competitor and I competed with an auto (Browning Gold 30 inch SC and then a Beretta 391 30 inch SC) in Sporting Clays and used them for Skeet and Trap also. I have used them for hunting also. So I would suggest two - one set up for HD/3GUN and one for clays.

[mmc45414]

Was just reviewing this and went out and researched things, and was even surprised at how cheap the Remington barrels are. Everybody is right that the Benellis seem to be the go-to, and I dig my Berettas, but you could buy one of these for probably $550:
13560
and buy one of these for only $170, straight from Remington:
13561
And maybe even glue one of these on it:
13562
And you would have your combo gun. From there you could make you decisions on stuff like extension tubes and Vang safeties and side saddles, yada, yada, yada. Also choke tubes are available everywhere and are about $25.

Lots of stuff that is probably better, but this is the starter kit, IMO.

[rob_s]

Was just reviewing this and went out and researched things, and was even surprised at how cheap the Remington barrels are. Everybody is right that the Benellis seem to be the go-to, and I dig my Berettas, but you could buy one of these for probably $550:


Lots of stuff that is probably better, but this is the starter kit, IMO.

very interesting. Thanks for doing the legwork.

I'm sure the 11-87 isn't considered to be robust enough for any of the various pursuits, and I'd prefer to have their 18" rifle-sighted barrel for home use, but you certainly put forth a valid option for the amount of use I'm likely to see.

[mmc45414]

very interesting. Thanks for doing the legwork.

I'm sure the 11-87 isn't considered to be robust enough for any of the various pursuits, and I'd prefer to have their 18" rifle-sighted barrel for home use, but you certainly put forth a valid option for the amount of use I'm likely to see.

I think people tend to overestimate how robust something REALLY needs to be. I started with an 1100 Synthetic, which was a low end entry offering they continued to build after the 11-87 was the new hotness. There was a trap club about three miles from my house, and I probably put 300 rounds a week through the thing for several years and it never did break. I gravitated to a O/U because the gas gun would start balking on the light reloads and probably once a month I was detail stripping it and soaking it in WD40 overnight to get it clean, and that became a PITA. Actually, it did break once, when I borrowed it back from a buddy because I was doing something I didn't want to use my O/U for and didn't have my 391 yet. But that brings up another point, parts are cheap and available.

But if you use it for a couple years and want something else it is easy enough to find somebody else that wants one for $400.

And just to reiterate, clay sports (I prefer skeet) are a hoot... :)