Concealable pistol mounted lights

[That Guy]

While, well, I suppose you could call them "duty-sized" weapon mounted lights, such as the Streamlight TLR-1 and Surefire X300 have been around for a while, smaller, more easily concealable lights have not been as available up to now. Seems like the situation is changing though, with several options in the market. But are any of them really suitable for concealed carry?


There is the Olight Valkyrie. Cheap, bright, but about zero support from holster makers, and at least one YouTube-reviewer reports breaking the mounting bracket in every light he tried. Definitely sounds like not suitable for serious use.
Inforce APL used to suffer from an auto-ejection problem, but they've released a second version which changes the mounting method. Is this version good to go? I have extremely limited amount of handling one but I liked the user interface.
Surefire XC1 should be a quality light, since one thing Surefire is known for is the quality of their products. But some people are reporting these lights are failing in use. Constant on sounds like it would the tricky, especially left-handed?
Crimson Trace Rail-Master. For some reason I really haven't read a lot about these? 100 lumens is not a whole lot of light. The user interface doesn't sound too great (to me, that is) when compared to some of the competition.
I know I'm forgetting at least one option out there...


What do you guys with more actual experience with these smaller lights say? Is there such a thing as the Glock 19 of narrower, concealed carry weapon lights? Or do they all have some significant problem?

[SLG]

None of them are spectacular, imo. I have been using the Inforce for for a while, and it had worked out very well. Both on a 40 and a 9mm. I carry it in a JM Custom holster, and it works really well.

I recently switched to a tlr2 hl g, and am working on a holster for it as well. I am not sure if I can carry it as easily as the inforce, but it is a much more capable light. 800 lumens and the greennlaser, plus excellent switching.

I like the inforce switching a lot, but the TLR though different, is every bit as good. I much prefer both of them to any surefire switching options, though as a long time surefire fan, it has been hard to branch out for me.

[That Guy]

I dislike the Streamlight switching myself. Apparently my brain doesn't do "clockwise", when I push down on a button on one side I want the same thing to happen as when I push down on a button on the opposite side.

So I take it the Inforce actually works? Which version do you have?

Sent from my Infernal Contraption using Tapatalk

[SLG]

Switching can be a personal thing, but I also think that how you look at the function of the light matters. I too used to dislike the streamlight switching and prefer ed the surefire switching.


I have old in force and new inforce. Old did auto eject from a 1911 for me one time. New has never had an issue on a g22 or a g17 or 19.

As far as theory of duty size vs cc sized lights, I look at it differently. I want the capability of the duty light, and I will try to make my holster accomdate it. It may not work, but I will exhaust all options to carry a duty light vs. Trying to decide which cc light is best.

[GRV]

Shot Show is here. Rail mounted TLR-6 :D :cool:

Red laser only, but still cool we're moving in that direction.

SLG, since you were a bit coy last time I mentioned Shot Show in this context.....have you had a chance to play with the new rail-mounted TLR-6 behind the scenes? There are a couple of reasons I'm not seriously considering it, but I'm still curious if anyone has experience with it.

[GRV]

but I also think that how you look at the function of the light matters.


Can you expand on that? I'm in the same boat at Tony on strongly preferring surefire switching, but I'd be interested in being talked out of that or finding a new perspective.

[SLG]

Shot Show is here. Rail mounted TLR-6 :D :cool:

Red laser only, but still cool we're moving in that direction.

SLG, since you were a bit coy last time I mentioned Shot Show in this context.....have you had a chance to play with the new rail-mounted TLR-6 behind the scenes? There are a couple of reasons I'm not seriously considering it, but I'm still curious if anyone has experience with it.

I have one one the way from before SHOT, but the production ones won't be available for a week or two more. I'm looking forward to checking it out, but it doesn't really fit my paradigm.

If I was coy, it likely had to do with the XC-2, as I was asked not to talk about it till they released it.

[GRV]

XC-2

:eek::eek::eek: *Goes to Google*

(That's been in my search bar for weeks, but I didn't pay attention the last few days!)



ETA: Wow. This is a lot more convincing to me, despite the still red laser only.

Any experience with the XC-2?

[peterb]

FourSevens supposedly just released a new pistol light at SHOT. I got a teaser email but haven't seen details.

Edit: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?192756-FourSevens-pistol-weapon-light

[breakingtime91]

Inforce has a light that released at shot that is the size of the xc1.. thats what I attend on using when it gets tested a little bit. Think a gen 2 apl mini

[Gray222]

None of them are spectacular, imo. I have been using the Inforce for for a while, and it had worked out very well. Both on a 40 and a 9mm. I carry it in a JM Custom holster, and it works really well.

I recently switched to a tlr2 hl g, and am working on a holster for it as well. I am not sure if I can carry it as easily as the inforce, but it is a much more capable light. 800 lumens and the greennlaser, plus excellent switching.

I like the inforce switching a lot, but the TLR though different, is every bit as good. I much prefer both of them to any surefire switching options, though as a long time surefire fan, it has been hard to branch out for me.

I have a tlr2hlg as well and I can't carry it aiwb. Just too much going on. Strong side I probably could if I could find the right holster.

Though I've been told to try the xfer to accommodate this, I don't know if it'll fit though.

[JCS]

Inforce has a light that released at shot that is the size of the xc1.. thats what I attend on using when it gets tested a little bit. Think a gen 2 apl mini

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/17/inforce-new-compact-and-gen3-pistol-mounted-lights-introduced/

For those like me that wanted to see it. Looks pretty sweet.

[SLG]

Can you expand on that? I'm in the same boat at Tony on strongly preferring surefire switching, but I'd be interested in being talked out of that or finding a new perspective.

This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try. All of what I'm talking about is from my professional perspective. Some of it is applicable to civilians, and I use those aspects in my personal life. Some of it is just not applicable for civilian self defense issues.

I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

So, the WML for me, is a very limited use item. When I really need it it is because I only have one hand. That occurs for me only once or twice a year typically, but no doubt other examples will spring to mind. When I'm clearing a tunnel, crawling on my hands and knees, and using my left hand to support my body and movement, I need a WML. When I'm clearing a roof, and need one hand on a ladder, or one hand on a rafter, becasue I'm walking on rafters and need the balance, I need a WML.

In those types of circumstances, there are no flashy techniques. You just turn the light on, leave it on, and hope to see the bad guy before he shoots you. In those cases, the brighter the light the better. A laser is a big advantage for one handed shooting from awkward angles, like those contortions you get into described above.

So, if I have two hands on the gun and am using the light, the downward temporary rocker on the Streamlight works very well for me and the way I grip a gun. It allows me to use the light more tactically, much like a handheld. If I need it one handed, then my trigger finger can swipe down on the switch and turn it on permanently. I have found both those options to be much more reliable for me than the Surefire switch. With the SF, you push forward for temp. I find that under recoil, I lose that connection more often than I would like. For permanent on, I find the SF switch to not move as smoothly as the Streamlight switch, but it is perfectly workable. Just not as nice.

Though the switch moves differently, the Inforce light works exactly the same way for me as the Streamlight. Touch it for temp. Release when you want the light to go off. Tap it for permanent. Tap it again to shut it off.

In reading the above, I don't think I was very clear, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The way the switches work, I personally prefer the TLR or Inforce to the SF, regardless of how I'm using the light. Since I mostly limit the WML to one handed use of the gun, any perceived drawback to those switches goes away for me. That's really the crux of it I think. My intended and actual use of the light is much more limited than the market would have you believe a WML is good for, so in that narrow range of use, the switching is less of an issue. Now, after using the TLR and APL for a while, I have come to prefer them for all WML uses.

I stongly dislike dg switches or the contour switch from Streamlight. Both of them mess with my control of the light and gun more than I want. I also have small hands, and I demand a certain level of shootability and recoil control. If you have bigger hands, or are less caring about how the switches affect your grip, then thats a different story.

On a handgun, no accessory is more important than your ability to grip it well. This gets back to what the role of the handgun is. Except for the limited circumstances noted above, I would have no need for a WML, and would not go to hassle of carrying one.

That said, we are working on a new concept in holsters to accommodate the duty size lights and lasers. More soon.

[SLG]

The XC2 doesn't do it for me. Neither does the mini APL. It is so close to standard APL, which I can carry just fine. I am glad to see they bumped up the lumens on the APL though.

[That Guy]

This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try.

Thank you for that. It was very clear and helpful.

[SLG]

Thank you for that. It was very clear and helpful.

You're welcome. Please let us know what you end up with and what you think about it.

[StraitR]

.....
I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

....

Great post SLG and I couldn't agree more in regards to WML's and my use as a civilian.

[GRV]

I misunderstood the switching on the XC lights. Not as thrilled, but it'd still probably do most of what I'm interested in. The excitement I have for these releases though is not so much "look, here's a new thing I can buy now" as much as it is "the thing I want is only 1-2 years away now!".

SLG, that was an awesome post. Thanks! That makes a lot of sense and definitely made me reconsider the switching. I'll have to try my friend's TLR to see if my finger geometry jives with it.

As cool at the TLR-2 HL G looks, that adds a ton of bulk in an area that monumentally affects comfort and flexibility for me AIWB. I'm very curious what you're conjuring regarding holsters, but frankly I'm extremely skeptical it'd ever be something I could make work for myself. The TLR-2 basically looks like a rail-mounted device designed to maximally torture me AIWB.

My interest in this stuff is probably 60:40 laser to light, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the laser side of stuff here. How does the switching effect your use of the laser, and how are you deploying that, in what situations, etc? The laser position on the TLR-2 also bothers me a little; it looks like it'd have a significant POA/POI drift from 5 to 15 yds unless you zeroed it for some sort of holdunder method. I really have no experience or clue with lasers so it's likely I'm totally misunderstanding things.

[SLG]

The offset on these types of light laser combos are not ideal. They are mostly done that way becasue of heat issues. You probably know more about that than I do, but until I was told that by the manufacturer, it hadn't occurred to me. For my use, i.e. one handed in awkward positions, I don't think it is a big deal. Others may need closer alignment. I typically zero the laser at 25 yards, and that works out well, but I may have to experiment with other zeros and see how it goes. I use 10 yards for my MRDS, and that makes me wonder a bit.

For a laser option only, the CT stuff is probably best, as long as it works well with your gun. It doesn't with mine.:-( If i was using a rail mount laser instead, I would want a DG type switch. My general complaints with type of switch may not apply to people with bigger or different hands and guns. And different uses.

As for carrying the gun with the TLR2...you'll have to wait and see, but not very long. I'm pretty excited about this development.

I really hope others will chime in on this stuff. Light use in general is not well understood in the community. WML use is further underexplored. I've been working on a curriculum for integrating lights and lasers into one man tactics, but the truth is, is that it takes a lot to put on a high level course like that. A seminar, that could actually cover 95% of it could be done in 4 hours, so a real course is hard to justify unless you have the facility and equipment and people to really take it to the next level.

[Le Français]

If you adjust the laser so that the beam is parallel to the bore, then you know what your offset is regardless of distance (setting aside bullet drop). Possibly that might be easier for some to use.

[Chuck Whitlock]

This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try. All of what I'm talking about is from my professional perspective. Some of it is applicable to civilians, and I use those aspects in my personal life. Some of it is just not applicable for civilian self defense issues.

I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

So, the WML for me, is a very limited use item. When I really need it it is because I only have one hand. That occurs for me only once or twice a year typically, but no doubt other examples will spring to mind. When I'm clearing a tunnel, crawling on my hands and knees, and using my left hand to support my body and movement, I need a WML. When I'm clearing a roof, and need one hand on a ladder, or one hand on a rafter, becasue I'm walking on rafters and need the balance, I need a WML.

In those types of circumstances, there are no flashy techniques. You just turn the light on, leave it on, and hope to see the bad guy before he shoots you. In those cases, the brighter the light the better. A laser is a big advantage for one handed shooting from awkward angles, like those contortions you get into described above.

So, if I have two hands on the gun and am using the light, the downward temporary rocker on the Streamlight works very well for me and the way I grip a gun. It allows me to use the light more tactically, much like a handheld. If I need it one handed, then my trigger finger can swipe down on the switch and turn it on permanently. I have found both those options to be much more reliable for me than the Surefire switch. With the SF, you push forward for temp. I find that under recoil, I lose that connection more often than I would like. For permanent on, I find the SF switch to not move as smoothly as the Streamlight switch, but it is perfectly workable. Just not as nice.

Though the switch moves differently, the Inforce light works exactly the same way for me as the Streamlight. Touch it for temp. Release when you want the light to go off. Tap it for permanent. Tap it again to shut it off.

In reading the above, I don't think I was very clear, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The way the switches work, I personally prefer the TLR or Inforce to the SF, regardless of how I'm using the light. Since I mostly limit the WML to one handed use of the gun, any perceived drawback to those switches goes away for me. That's really the crux of it I think. My intended and actual use of the light is much more limited than the market would have you believe a WML is good for, so in that narrow range of use, the switching is less of an issue. Now, after using the TLR and APL for a while, I have come to prefer them for all WML uses.

I stongly dislike dg switches or the contour switch from Streamlight. Both of them mess with my control of the light and gun more than I want. I also have small hands, and I demand a certain level of shootability and recoil control. If you have bigger hands, or are less caring about how the switches affect your grip, then thats a different story.

On a handgun, no accessory is more important than your ability to grip it well. This gets back to what the role of the handgun is. Except for the limited circumstances noted above, I would have no need for a WML, and would not go to hassle of carrying one.

That said, we are working on a new concept in holsters to accommodate the duty size lights and lasers. More soon.

Good post, SLG.

With regard to the DG/Contour switches, I had the same issues (as highlighted above). Additionally, I have issues reaching the conventional switches with my short digits. I eventually just dumped the WML on a pistol, although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.

[Chuck Whitlock]

This will be hard for me to effectively type, but I'll try. All of what I'm talking about is from my professional perspective. Some of it is applicable to civilians, and I use those aspects in my personal life. Some of it is just not applicable for civilian self defense issues.

I strongly prefer a handheld light for most pistol applications. I can search with it, gun out or holstered. I can MUC with it. I can see my sights and shoot well with it one handed at any reasonable self defense range. So what does this have to do with using a WML? I don't see a WML as being very useful for civilians, except on a home defense gun. Even then, it is not how I would search my house. See above.

So, the WML for me, is a very limited use item. When I really need it it is because I only have one hand. That occurs for me only once or twice a year typically, but no doubt other examples will spring to mind. When I'm clearing a tunnel, crawling on my hands and knees, and using my left hand to support my body and movement, I need a WML. When I'm clearing a roof, and need one hand on a ladder, or one hand on a rafter, becasue I'm walking on rafters and need the balance, I need a WML.

In those types of circumstances, there are no flashy techniques. You just turn the light on, leave it on, and hope to see the bad guy before he shoots you. In those cases, the brighter the light the better. A laser is a big advantage for one handed shooting from awkward angles, like those contortions you get into described above.

So, if I have two hands on the gun and am using the light, the downward temporary rocker on the Streamlight works very well for me and the way I grip a gun. It allows me to use the light more tactically, much like a handheld. If I need it one handed, then my trigger finger can swipe down on the switch and turn it on permanently. I have found both those options to be much more reliable for me than the Surefire switch. With the SF, you push forward for temp. I find that under recoil, I lose that connection more often than I would like. For permanent on, I find the SF switch to not move as smoothly as the Streamlight switch, but it is perfectly workable. Just not as nice.

Though the switch moves differently, the Inforce light works exactly the same way for me as the Streamlight. Touch it for temp. Release when you want the light to go off. Tap it for permanent. Tap it again to shut it off.

In reading the above, I don't think I was very clear, but I'm not sure what to do about it. The way the switches work, I personally prefer the TLR or Inforce to the SF, regardless of how I'm using the light. Since I mostly limit the WML to one handed use of the gun, any perceived drawback to those switches goes away for me. That's really the crux of it I think. My intended and actual use of the light is much more limited than the market would have you believe a WML is good for, so in that narrow range of use, the switching is less of an issue. Now, after using the TLR and APL for a while, I have come to prefer them for all WML uses.

I stongly dislike dg switches or the contour switch from Streamlight. Both of them mess with my control of the light and gun more than I want. I also have small hands, and I demand a certain level of shootability and recoil control. If you have bigger hands, or are less caring about how the switches affect your grip, then thats a different story.

On a handgun, no accessory is more important than your ability to grip it well. This gets back to what the role of the handgun is. Except for the limited circumstances noted above, I would have no need for a WML, and would not go to hassle of carrying one.

That said, we are working on a new concept in holsters to accommodate the duty size lights and lasers. More soon.

Good post, SLG.

With regard to the DG/Contour switches, I had the same issues (as highlighted above). Additionally, I have issues reaching the conventional switches with my short digits. I eventually just dumped the WML on a pistol, although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.

Funny that my inability to reach the switches cries out for the DG/Contour, but they in turn destroy my grip/control.

[SLG]

Thanks Chuck! Glad I'm not the only one who feels that way about the switches.

[LOKNLOD]

Good post, SLG.

Agreed. Thanks.



Although I'd be interested in the Sig 320/250 frame w/ the integrated laser.....if it ever comes out...........and if it's made with the small grip frame.


You know, I was thinking about making a post about those just the other day. I really like the concept.

[That Guy]

Please let us know what you end up with and what you think about it.

That might take a while, mind you. :)

That new APL gen3 sounds interesting... But we'll see when that'll be available to me.

[That Guy]

Another new option coming to the market seems to be a 4sevens WML:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/4sevens-new-ws1-pistol-light-shot-2017/

Edit: Oops. Looks like peterb already mentioned this on page 1 of this thread.

[spinmove_]

How does one tell between an APL v1 and an APL v2 that doesn't suck?

[That Guy]

Version 2 attachment is tightened by basically a flathead screw. Version 1 uses a fancier lever (that doesn't always work).

[23JAZ]

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/01/17/inforce-new-compact-and-gen3-pistol-mounted-lights-introduced/

For those like me that wanted to see it. Looks pretty sweet.
Anyone have any idea when that compact will be available?

[NH Shooter]

Another new option coming to the market seems to be a 4sevens WML.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but due to the USB port I don't think this light is truly waterproof, which IMO makes it a non-starter for serious carry use. FWIW, the APL is rated to 66 feet of submersion depth - it's nice to know the light can be submerged with no issues.

I own some 4Sevens Quarks (old versions) and really like them. That said, they are no where near as well made as a Malkoff or Surefire. Just my 2-cents, but most of the Chinese lights seem gimmicky to me - I don't need the ability to select from a dozen different flashing SOS variations and other programming modes that I have no use for. Based on what I've read, their new WML strikes me the same way with features I don't need; USB only charging, inability to take a common Li-ion or lithium battery, a "backup light" on the bottom, switch programming modes, unknown durability, etc. Maybe it will prove to be better than I'm anticipating...

I'll take simple-to-use, durable, waterproof, compact and reliable all day, every day. I've been running an APL (original version) on a Glock 17 with no issues until recently, when it started draining the battery while in storage. Inforce promptly replaced it with a Gen 2.

For in-house HD use, I find 200 lumens more than adequate. The APL is compact and lightweight enough on my G17 to remain easily concealable under a jacket and easy to carry in a JM Custom OWB holster. IMO, it strikes an excellent balance between size/weight, build quality, ease-of-operation and light output.

[That Guy]

Please let us know what you end up with and what you think about it.

Okay, so it's been a while... But I finally have a light and a little bit of experience training with it.

I ended up with a third generation Inforce APL (the full size light). I have had it mounted to my PX4 since February (I bought the light from a Black Friday sale, so that was some pretty fast shipping :p ) and since that time I've fired... well, less rounds with it than what Gabe White probably uses as a warm-up. About 400. What can I say, due to time and money constraints my volume of shooting is pretty pedestrian by P-F standards.

Right off the bat there was a bit of an issue; while the APL otherwise fits the Beretta just fine, the trigger guard blocks the paddles of the light from moving far enough. I fixed that by some judicious whittling of the tops of the paddles.

Once I got past that issue, I must say I like this light. Having small hands, no weapon mounted light is really easy to use, but I manage with the APL with definitely less trouble than a TLR. Two-handed, I am able to engage momentary on with little issue and minimal compromise to my support hand grip by moving my support hand index finger to the front of the trigger guard and working the paddle with the side of my finger. (This is pretty much how I've used the TLR, as well.) One-handed, the only method I've come up with that works reliably enough is bracing the butt of the pistol against my rib cage, kind of like some folks teach retention shooting, and activating constant on with my middle finger. With a bit of practice this is pretty workable and I can do it regardless of which hand I have the pistol in. One-handed activation was something I was totally unable to do with the TLR, so this is a clear improvement.

Size-wise, the light is the same width as the pistol, which is nice. The bezel extends slightly beyond the muzzle. Carrying the pistol-light combination in an IWB holster (JMCK IWB3 with 25 degrees of cant), the light does create a small bulge to the butt of my trousers which needs to be covered by the concealment garment, but at least it is doable. Duty holster wise, I was able to make a Safariland 6005 work by cranking down on the lower retention screw.

The 400 lumen beam has been sufficient in all the training I've done with the light thus far. I must say, in retrospect, less lumens would have been a handicap. I'm glad I got a light that is powerful enough to be useful.

[That Guy]

Two-handed, I am able to engage momentary on with little issue and minimal compromise to my support hand grip by moving my support hand index finger to the front of the trigger guard and working the paddle with the side of my finger.

Since this summer, I've been working on moving my support hand forward and using my thumb to activate the light. Makes for a bit more crowded area near the trigger, and messes up my support hand grip of course, but makes activating the light more reliable (and is less likely to induce sideways movement to the muzzle). And due to the nature of shooting in the dark, if I just use some force to grip the gun with my support hand, the funky grip is not much of an impediment neither.

One thing I do not like about this light was how last Friday, on one of my strings of fire the light suddenly turned off after the first shot and failed to turn on again. I finished the string of fire with a handheld, and afterwards was unable to reproduce the issue. Finished off the short practice session without further issues. I'll be keeping an eye on the light, hopefully it won't do that again. Otherwise, I'll need to switch to a different light. (Oh bloody yay... Not only is buying firearm accessories a pain in the arse these days, I'll probably need to switch at least concealment holsters too.)

[That Guy]

So, yeah. I've been having more issues with the Inforce APL. I've changed a fresh battery in it, and during dry fire it works fine, but during live fire I've run into the intermittent on issue multiple times. The light is solidly mounted on the rail, so it's not an issue of the light moving about during recoil. One thing that has come to mind is that the weather has been a tad colder as of late, and I've been wearing the pistol on my drop-leg holster so it has been exposed to the elements. It has not, however, been all that cold.

Whatever. Once I manage to get a better light, I'm about done with this one.

[El Cid]

Inforce weapon lights are hobby grade at best. Mostly they are junk in my experience. When they do work they aren’t bright enough to cut through gunsmoke

I recommend trying a TLR-7. For several months now it’s been everything a weapon light should be. The switches can be tough to reach with short fingers. But if that’s not an issue it’s tough to beat the size for a 500 lumen light.