Cut shells are stupid.

[Andrew Wiggin]

https://youtu.be/ML-TicFwke0
https://youtu.be/ML-TicFwke0

I think I forgot to mention that they'll jam up your shotgun. They also said rude things about your mom. And shotguns are a poor choice for defense, anyway.

[Jeep]

Good test of a very stupid concept. Why play around with cutting shells when you can get all you need out of slugs or buckshot? Even if it worked it would be a fix in search of a problem.

[Jim Watson]

I don't recall what he said but the cut shell goes back to the Depression at least. You might not be able to afford slugs or buck on the off chance that you would see a deer while hunting small game. Game laws might have forbidden you to have slugs or buckshot on your person during small game season. It gets rediscovered on facebook every couple of weeks.
So does the "wax bullet" formed by pouring melted wax into a shot load. I have been assured that this is superior in power and accuracy to any slug made. Really.

[Kyle Reese]

Good test of a very stupid concept. Why play around with cutting shells when you can get all you need out of slugs or buckshot? Even if it worked it would be a fix in search of a problem.
12 gauge slugs and buck are readily available and inexpensive. Not sure why I'd mod shells for this purpose.

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[Unobtanium]

Cut shells could turn a depression era squirrel hunt into a successful deer hunt. When your family depends on your hunt for food, sportsmanship and ethics are secondary to "did the deer end up on the table or not?" That said, knowledge and techniques do not always fade into obscurity once their imperatives of invention do. Good test! I dunno how you did it, but I've seen plenty of cut she'll YouTube video that shows a .7" Dia hole in plywood at 20 yards etc. Just like a fragile slug. The shells were cut 100% through in 4 places near the base of the wad, with maybe 1mm of she'll at the 4 cut junctions to maintain integrity until fired.

[Jeep]

Well, personally, I've heard more dumb ideas for shotgun shells than anything else. For awhile (and this is more than a few decades back) it was to use dimes instead of shot. The stack of dimes cost more than a slug and were ineffective beyond a few yards, but it was fashionable. And, of course there were cut shells and wax with bird shot (and glue with bird shot), and ball bearings of different sizes, etc. etc. etc.

If any of them made sense, someone would have turned it into a commercial product. When that doesn't happen, you have a pretty good clue that the idea doesn't really work.

[Caballoflaco]

Cut shells could turn a depression era squirrel hunt into a successful deer hunt. When your family depends on your hunt for food, sportsmanship and ethics are secondary to "did the deer end up on the table or not?" That said, knowledge and techniques do not always fade into obscurity once their imperatives of invention do. Good test! I dunno how you did it, but I've seen plenty of cut she'll YouTube video that shows a .7" Dia hole in plywood at 20 yards etc. Just like a fragile slug. The shells were cut 100% through in 4 places near the base of the wad, with maybe 1mm of she'll at the 4 cut junctions to maintain integrity until fired.

I would bet a lot more deer were killed cleanly with a .22lr than cut shells during the depression. Knocking a hole in plywood is not the same as deeply penetrating a deer's abdomen.

While I have a lot of respect for that generation, they weren't immune from spouting bullshit just like their fathers before them and the generations that will follow us.The ability to fabricate grandiose lies is one of the things that separates us from the lesser beasts.

[fishing]

I would bet a lot more deer were killed cleanly with a .22lr than cut shells during the depression. Knocking a hole in plywood is not the same as deeply penetrating a deer's abdomen.

While I have a lot of respect for that generation, they weren't immune from spouting bullshit just like their fathers before them and the generations that will follow us.The ability to fabricate grandiose lies is one of the things that separates us from the lesser beasts.

I think what you are missing is that not everyone had or could swap for a .22, and also that to a certain degree of effectiveness, the cut shell allowed someone with birdshot only (for squirrels or wingshooting) to also have a chance at taking a deer in an effective and humane manner.

[Lon]

Well, personally, I've heard more dumb ideas for shotgun shells than anything else. For awhile (and this is more than a few decades back) it was to use dimes instead of shot. The stack of dimes cost more than a slug and were ineffective beyond a few yards, but it was fashionable. And, of course there were cut shells and wax with bird shot (and glue with bird shot), and ball bearings of different sizes, etc. etc. etc.

If any of them made sense, someone would have turned it into a commercial product. When that doesn't happen, you have a pretty good clue that the idea doesn't really work.


https://youtu.be/AvDSdnBI_sc

[Wayne Dobbs]

I always called them "Red Neck Slugs" and was introduced to the concept by a red neck friend.

[Unobtanium]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42Bsc8YtnU&t=168s

^Cut shells being effectively used against man-sized target at 100 yards (skip to 8:30).

[Hambo]

Cut shells could turn a depression era squirrel hunt into a successful deer hunt.

It's a great story, but did it really happen often? During the Depression, or maybe even before it where people didn't have much cash (which was any rural area), store owners sold individual shells. If you read old hunting stories or diaries from the South, buckshot for deer is mentioned all the time. Cut shells, not so much.

[Andrew Wiggin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F42Bsc8YtnU&t=168s

^Cut shells being effectively used against man-sized target at 100 yards (skip to 8:30).

What do you mean by "effectively"?

[Unobtanium]

What do you mean by "effectively"?

I mean it probably would have hit the gel block as a cohesive, in OP's video.

[Unobtanium]

It's a great story, but did it really happen often? During the Depression, or maybe even before it where people didn't have much cash (which was any rural area), store owners sold individual shells. If you read old hunting stories or diaries from the South, buckshot for deer is mentioned all the time. Cut shells, not so much.

They used to be legal for deer in Michigan, now, they are expressly forbidden to be on your person/in your weapon during a season which you cannot take deer using a shotgun. There are many references to them being used during the depression era, but I find state law specifically mentioning them is a pretty good indicator as to the validity of their historical use, for whatever reason.

November 10-14
It is unlawful to carry afield or transport any rifle (including rimfire) or shotgun if you
have buckshot, slug, ball loads, or cut shells.
Exception:
You may transport a firearm
to your deer camp or to a target range during this period if the firearm is properly
transported see pg. 19. A resident who holds a fur harvester license may carry a
.22 caliber or smaller rimfire firearm while hunting furbearers or checking a trap line
during the open season for hunting or trapping furbearing animals. You also may
target shoot on your own property provided there is no attempt to take game.
Page 20

2016
Michigan Hunting and Trapping Digest
21
EQUIPMENT
REGULATIONS
Firearm Deer Season
It is unlawful for a person taking or attempting to take game to carry or possess
afield a centerfire or muzzleloading rifle, a crossbow, a bow and arrow, a centerfire
or black powder handgun, or a shotgun with buckshot, slug or ball loads or cut
shells,
unless
you have in your name and possession a current-year:
•
Deer, deer combo, or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU,
or
•
Deer, deer combo, or antlerless deer license for the appropriate DMU
with
an unused Deer Management Assistance (DMA) permit kill tag, or an unused
managed deer hunting permit.
Page 21
https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/hunting_and_trapping_digest_461177_7.pdf

So...obviously people did, or still do, use cut shells for deer. Ill advised or forced upon by hardship, or whatever, or not.

[RevolverRob]

Some places in the world - not the United States - have very restrictive gun ownership policies. Such that basically shotguns, as utility/hunting weapons, are the only weapons permitted. And they often have strict control and regulation of ammunition types, too. Limiting buckshot and slugs to use by Military or Police. In those instances, cut shells may, make a lot of sense and not be "stupid" or "retarded".

Let's also not forget that cut-shells were intended for break action single and double guns - not pumps or semi-autos. So jamming was a non-issue.

[Jeep]

Some places in the world - not the United States - have very restrictive gun ownership policies. Such that basically shotguns, as utility/hunting weapons, are the only weapons permitted. And they often have strict control and regulation of ammunition types, too. Limiting buckshot and slugs to use by Military or Police. In those instances, cut shells may, make a lot of sense and not be "stupid" or "retarded".

Let's also not forget that cut-shells were intended for break action single and double guns - not pumps or semi-autos. So jamming was a non-issue.

Those are fair points that I had not considered. In addition the reference to "cut shells" in the Michigan statute that Unobtanium quotes above makes me think that perhaps in Michigan people were using cut shells when buck and slugs were banned, which is why the cut shells were banned also.

However, they still make little sense if you can buy (and use) slugs relatively cheaply.

[X9VlmF8m]

You declared cut shells to be stupid but only tested cut birdshot shells. I assume that cut buckshot shells would also act like buckshot once it hits a target. Could a cut buckshot shell offer similar accuracy to a slug? Would it provide any advantages over a slug such as limited over-penetration in comparison?

I swear that a few years ago I saw an ad for a factory version of a cut shell but I've never been able to find them again. It had a fully enclosed shot cup that never released and kept the shot together.