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View Full Version : Has Mossberg jumped the shark...



FPS
01-17-2017, 01:17 AM
...or is Bubba and co "gonna get me one of dem!" Or maybe I am blind and missing the application.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnqPZA0f2Yg

I had to pause for a minute to make sure this really belongs in the "Long Guns' sub-forum. Did the best I could.

Totem Polar
01-17-2017, 01:22 AM
I'm sure I'm not the only one looking at the vertical forgrips and thinking of that guy with the keltec...

FPS
01-17-2017, 01:49 AM
They are loads of fun.

See, I was blind to the fun factor :)

Edwin
01-17-2017, 02:32 AM
When did they jump the shark? Did you miss the 500 tactical chainsaw (http://www.mossberg.com/product/500-tactical-chainsaw-50460/) from 2011, their entire zombie lineup (http://www.gunsandammo.com/blogs/zombie-nation/the-mossberg-zmb-series-zombie-tools-that-wont-break-the-bank/)from 2012 or the tactical levergun (http://www.mossberg.com/product/464-spx-centerfire-lever-action-rifle-41026/) in 2013?

They jumped the shark long ago.

Bigghoss
01-17-2017, 05:39 AM
I'm not gonna pretend these have any application other than being a range toy and looking cool as hell. I'm also not gonna pretend I don't totally want one of the Shockwaves that doesn't need a tax stamp.

I suppose you could buy the shockwave and have a cool thing to play with while you wait for the stamp that would allow you to put a stock on it. You could do the same with a regular shotgun but this thing would be easier than tracking down a short 590 tube and ether buying a 14" barrel or having one shortened.

Hambo
01-17-2017, 07:00 AM
I'm also not gonna pretend I don't totally want one of the Shockwaves that doesn't need a tax stamp.

I'm on that like a motherfucker just to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the anti-gun crowd.

JAD
01-17-2017, 07:46 AM
See, I was blind to the fun factor :)

Ephphatha.

TCinVA
01-17-2017, 08:01 AM
Fine as a range toy.

Nearly useless as a defensive implement.

JHC
01-17-2017, 08:08 AM
Serbu has been making the Super Shorty (http://www.serbu.com/super-shorty-aow-shotgun-12-gauge.html) for a long time. They are loads of fun.

I want one and now a Mossie won't break the bank.

When the AR pistol first arrived it was roundly dismissed too. Useless it was. Just sayin'

Bigghoss
01-17-2017, 10:32 AM
I'm on that like a motherfucker just to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth from the anti-gun crowd.

They should offer a package of two along with a harness to carry them on your back. Or maybe thigh holsters.

Hambo
01-17-2017, 10:57 AM
They should offer a package of two along with a harness to carry them on your back. Or maybe thigh holsters.

Only if they're cerakoted in a flag motif. Murica!

Sherman A. House DDS
01-17-2017, 11:04 AM
Jumping the shark, maybe.

But I'll get the Shockwave just because it would be fun.

PGO shotguns are more useful than many folks give credit for. I saw a guy at a zombie fun match use one, and he did great.


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Bigghoss
01-17-2017, 11:11 AM
Only if they're cerakoted in a flag motif. Murica!

Just rattle-can them sumbitches like an old Chevy!

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/000/451/395/2d2.jpg


Off topic but how good was Invasion USA?

Wendell
01-17-2017, 11:24 AM
It's a smart business move. People who watch the Walking Dead will want one, and that alone is a lot of people. Regardless of what anybody thinks about their practicality, Mossberg is going to sell as many as they make. Like hotcakes.

TCinVA
01-17-2017, 11:27 AM
Screw the walking dead.

I want to do Miami Vice cosplay:

http://s3.e-monsite.com/2010/11/23/07/resize_550_550//600px-MV-ITHSTAK-2.png

ST911
01-17-2017, 12:16 PM
Needs a standoff.

Sherman A. House DDS
01-17-2017, 12:17 PM
Screw the walking dead.

I want to do Miami Vice cosplay:

http://s3.e-monsite.com/2010/11/23/07/resize_550_550//600px-MV-ITHSTAK-2.png

I always thought Tubbs' was a Mossberg...not an ITHACA!


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hufnagel
01-17-2017, 12:38 PM
that 590 shockwave looks like it'd be fun. you think it'd be a bad choice as a trunk gun? need to see how it winds up falling with our awful laws.

Totem Polar
01-17-2017, 01:00 PM
This damn place.

Now I sort of want the shockwave, just because. That didn't take long.



http://www.ranthollywood.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/1118full-romancing-the-stone-screenshot.jpg

Hambo
01-17-2017, 01:45 PM
that 590 shockwave looks like it'd be fun. you think it'd be a bad choice as a trunk gun? need to see how it winds up falling with our awful laws.

Trunk? Stick it in the door panel to thwart carjackings.

FPS
01-17-2017, 01:54 PM
What kind of defensive ammo could you shoot out of those without breaking your face?

Wondering Beard
01-17-2017, 02:07 PM
What kind of defensive ammo could you shoot out of those without breaking your face?

With a proper "push-pull/Haught" technique, bird's head gripped shotguns aren't particularly harsh, even if you bring them to eye level. 00 buck has been no problem in my experience; you're just aren't as fast, or accurate as you would be with a proper stock but for 'across the room' distances, it'll do ok.

Lester Polfus
01-17-2017, 03:58 PM
With a proper "push-pull/Haught" technique, bird's head gripped shotguns aren't particularly harsh, even if you bring them to eye level. 00 buck has been no problem in my experience; you're just aren't as fast, or accurate as you would be with a proper stock but for 'across the room' distances, it'll do ok.

This. I've run a PGO shotgun exactly like that and it proved to be much more effective than you might think. It would still not be my first choice, or probably even my 10th, if I had to play big boy games for realz again but if it was all I had I could make it work.

Pistol grips on Mossbergs suck though, because then the safety is in exactly the wrong place.

ETA: You get the best results if you run them with a single point sling, you push the gun out until the sling is tight with your right hand, and pull back with the left, like shooting an MP-5 on a sling with the stock retracted.

SeriousStudent
01-17-2017, 07:36 PM
I am just waiting to read the appropriate Tam-isms.

JHC
01-18-2017, 08:01 AM
ETA: You get the best results if you run them with a single point sling, you push the gun out until the sling is tight with your right hand, and pull back with the left, like shooting an MP-5 on a sling with the stock retracted.

Ah ha! I thought it would be like drawing a bow, pulling back with the rear and pushing forward with the support hand on the pump. Sounds like a good thing not to have reversed. ;)
Sounds tricky to push forward much on that "birds head" style grip.

ST911
01-18-2017, 11:33 AM
What kind of defensive ammo could you shoot out of those without breaking your face?With a little technique and practice, it's not nearly the issue its made out to be. PG shotguns can do solid work.

Randy Harris
01-18-2017, 12:24 PM
I always thought Tubbs' was a Mossberg...not an ITHACA!


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Tubbs had different ones through the series. He started out with the Ithaca 37 , next was a SW3000 and finally an 870.

Wondering Beard
01-18-2017, 12:30 PM
Ah ha! I thought it would be like drawing a bow, pulling back with the rear and pushing forward with the support hand on the pump. Sounds like a good thing not to have reversed. ;)
Sounds tricky to push forward much on that "birds head" style grip.

Actually, I do the "bow pull". It has given me excellent control with a normally stocked shotgun and surprisingly good control with short barreled/bird's head gripped scatterguns. I mistakenly reversed it when I first tried that little howitzer (misunderstanding what the instructor was telling me mixed with my then long habit of using the classic push/pull weaver stance for pistols) and while I didn't hurt myself, controlling the gun and getting repeatable hits was more of a chore. Pull (in) with the shooting hand, push (outward) with the support hand.

Btw, I'm not great a shotgunner, I'm adequate and if someone with that low to mid level skill can control a pistol gripped shotgun (bird's head being much nicer on your wrist), any one can.

Lester Polfus
01-18-2017, 12:48 PM
Ah ha! I thought it would be like drawing a bow, pulling back with the rear and pushing forward with the support hand on the pump. Sounds like a good thing not to have reversed. ;)
Sounds tricky to push forward much on that "birds head" style grip.

I think if you aren't using the single point, that would be the way to do it.

Lester Polfus
01-18-2017, 12:51 PM
I am just waiting to read the appropriate Tam-isms.

She's having a rough time at SHOT show (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2017/01/beginners-luck.html).

JHC
01-18-2017, 02:13 PM
I think if you aren't using the single point, that would be the way to do it.

Oh duhh. Yes. Sorry for my opaqueness. OK, I'm squared away. :D

Wendell
01-18-2017, 03:00 PM
What kind of defensive ammo could you shoot out of those without breaking your face?

It's probably best to stick with one load only - depending upon the patterning, probably low-recoil 'tactical' 00 buckshot.

(Birdshot recoil is easy but buckshot and slugs is another matter; you can hold tight and manage the greater recoil - of buckshot and slugs - pretty well, but trying to go back and forth between birdshot and buckshot resulted in YouTube-worthy failure, with eye tearing and nose tenderness, in my limited experience.)

Best to stick with one recoil impulse.

Randy Harris
01-18-2017, 03:14 PM
What kind of defensive ammo could you shoot out of those without breaking your face?

The original Wilson Arms Witness Protection shotguns had full chokes in them and were really intended to be shot with a high brass birdshot loads. They were designed to be used at pistol distances and at that distance a load of #6 is such a tight pattern it is like a .72 caliber single projectile but essentially acts like an "immediately disintegrating slug" (because it is just a wad of birdshot) when it hits the target.

I have a Scattergun Technologies Witness Protection 870 with 12" barrel and full choke. It is a straight up copy of the Wilson Arms (of Brunswick Ga) Witness Protection shotgun. ST built them back in the 90s when the company was still located in Nashville and still owned by Roger Small (formerly of Automatic Weaponry in Brentwood TN who had also built the same gun). In fact when I got my Scattergun Tech 1187 conversion the mag tube extension sling plate was stamped Automatic Weaponry instead of Scattergun Technologies like on my Border Patrol...apparently they were still using up parts left over from the Automatic Weaponry days on the guns sent in for conversion and using new "Scattergun Tech" stamped sling plates/mag tubes on new guns. This was all prior to 1999 when Wilson Combat (no relation to Wilson Arms) bought Scattergun Tech from Roger.

Enough history , back to the WP shotguns....You can shoot buckshot in them (and low recoil buck is like heavy birdshot) and standard 2 3/4 buck is quite manageable too but I'd probably stay away from 3" magnum loads. This is akin to shooting .357 loads in a J frame...there is just not enough runway (barrel length) to get the most out of the load and all you are getting is more recoil and more blast and noise from all that unburned powder.

One big downside to shooting heavy loads in this Mossberg monstrosity vs the WP's "birds head " grip is that all the rearward momentum is driven into the web of your hand not out the back of the birds head like on the WP guns. That has been the same problem since the Cobray Mossberg "Rogue" conversion(IIRC) back in the late 80s/early 90s and the factory M16 style pistol grip on the Remington factory AOWs from the same time frame. That recoil has to go somewhere ....And that is not even considering the less than optimal position of the safety on the Mossberg which is not at all ergonomic for a pistol gripped gun....just my opinion.

But they'll probably sell a ton of these I'm sure.

Lester Polfus
01-18-2017, 03:27 PM
Fwiw, I spent about 10 minutes considering a PGO shotgun as a "home defense" weapon. They have much to recommend them as far as compactness. Based on my experience with actually running one, which pleasantly surprised me in the accuracy department, I concluded they were accurate enough to shoot some asshole in my living room, but not accurate enough to shoot an asshole in my living room if my wife or daughter were standing in the living room also.

Sherman A. House DDS
01-18-2017, 03:31 PM
Lots of my friends in the PAC NW and Alaska keep PGO gauges on their boats to dispatch halibut and other large fish that can wreck your boat, if given a chance.


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Randy Harris
01-18-2017, 03:42 PM
Fwiw, I spent about 10 minutes considering a PGO shotgun as a "home defense" weapon. They have much to recommend them as far as compactness. Based on my experience with actually running one, which pleasantly surprised me in the accuracy department, I concluded they were accurate enough to shoot some asshole in my living room, but not accurate enough to shoot an asshole in my living room if my wife or daughter were standing in the living room also.

Not that they are not mechanically accurate enough, but without a stock to anchor it into the shoulder any little bit of deflection at the back end makes a big difference in point of impact at the front end.

JHC
01-18-2017, 03:47 PM
Fwiw, I spent about 10 minutes considering a PGO shotgun as a "home defense" weapon. They have much to recommend them as far as compactness. Based on my experience with actually running one, which pleasantly surprised me in the accuracy department, I concluded they were accurate enough to shoot some asshole in my living room, but not accurate enough to shoot an asshole in my living room if my wife or daughter were standing in the living room also.

I'm thinking of "Valdez is Coming" : "Something for rabbits."

Lester Polfus
01-18-2017, 03:49 PM
Not that they are not mechanically accurate enough, but without a stock to anchor it into the shoulder any little bit of deflection at the back end makes a big difference in point of impact at the front end.

Zactly. Where my little brain is going with this is "I wonder how it would work with a different pistol grip and a Sig Brace."

SeriousStudent
01-18-2017, 07:49 PM
She's having a rough time at SHOT show (http://booksbikesboomsticks.blogspot.com/2017/01/beginners-luck.html).

Holy cow! I hope she feels better soon.

Rex G
01-18-2017, 08:27 PM
With a proper "push-pull/Haught" technique, bird's head gripped shotguns aren't particularly harsh, even if you bring them to eye level. 00 buck has been no problem in my experience; you're just aren't as fast, or accurate as you would be with a proper stock but for 'across the room' distances, it'll do ok.

This. When I bought a Benelli M1 Super 90 to carry on patrol, I removed the factory folding stock from my 870, and installed a pistol grip, of now-forgotten brand, that bore a resemblance to a Thompson SMG grip, somewhat like a bird's-head. I had read an article on the Witness Protection shotguns, and the eye-level aiming technique, pushing forward on the fore-end, pulling on the rear grip, with isometric tension, worked fine; nothing came close to hitting my face. The PGO-'ed 870 was more comfortable to shoot than that Benelli, with its narrow blade of a synthetic stock that pounded my shoulder and face at the same time. Of course, the PGO-'ed 870 was only truly fast for the first shot, as a stock helps keep things stable while working the slide; follow-up shots with a PGO shotgun were not as fast as with a stocked weapon, and of course, nothing beat that Benelli's speed.

A burglar relieved me of that PGO 870. I never saw a reason to PGO another of my normal shotguns, though having read about the Shockwave-gripped, 14"-barreled Mossbergs being a non-NFA item, fitting nicely into an apparent loophole, had considered the idea of acquiring a factory-PGO 870, or perhaps a virgin 870P receiver, and installing a Shockwave grip and 14" barrel, "just because."

It is important to note that the shotgun receiver MUST have left the factory as an "Other," not as a shotgun, and result in a 26" overall length, for this to be non-NFA.

Lester Polfus
01-18-2017, 08:34 PM
It is important to note that the shotgun receiver MUST have left the factory as an "Other," not as a shotgun, and result in a 26" overall length, for this to be non-NFA.

I'm really tempted to buy one of these Mossbergs, because, reasons. One of the things that is giving me pause is explaining the nuances to this to the local constabulary, if need arose.

NerdAlert
01-18-2017, 10:22 PM
Using this thing for actual defense seems...impractical. However buying one, filling out the paper work to stamp it and adding magpul furniture...that has serious HD potential. I like that they are selling an assembled 14" gun instead of having to cut something up or order a bunch of parts to make a 14" SBS yourself. If they made a 14" version of the 930 with a ridiculously long "birdshead" that held the recoil spring that would be a good candidate too.

As far as jumping the shark, if the zombie themed stuff, chainsaw stuff, pink camo stuff, etc etc wasn't jumping the shark I don't see how this is. It's not the best thing in it's stock configuration but it has serious potential after a tax stamp. That's more than can be said for some other things mossberg (let alone Sig, Ruger, Colt, Savage, etc) has put out.


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Rex G
01-19-2017, 05:23 AM
As I understand it, another interesting legal factor in this configuration not being NFA is that it should not be "concealed." This is kind of like an AR15 pistol, with a wrist brace, not being fired from the shoulder, because at the instant of doing so, it could be construed to be an NFA weapon. This necessity to remain non-concealed limits the circumstances in which one could be out and about with such an "Other" weapon.

serialsolver
01-19-2017, 11:41 AM
I used to want a coach gun, now I want a shockwave.

With a laser and loaded with high wall bird shot or #4's that thing will scream get out of my house or get away from my truck.


"Johnny Tyler! You madcap! Where you goin with that shotgun ?"


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Lester Polfus
01-19-2017, 12:15 PM
Ok. I have to put this idea officially to bed in my head. I live in a state that doesn't allow SBS's. I'm not sure I want to be in possession of a 14" shotgun barrel, particularly since that barrel would fit another shotgun I own that was produced as a shotgun, that has a stock...

fishing
01-22-2017, 03:19 AM
Ok. I have to put this idea officially to bed in my head. I live in a state that doesn't allow SBS's. I'm not sure I want to be in possession of a 14" shotgun barrel, particularly since that barrel would fit another shotgun I own that was produced as a shotgun, that has a stock...

May I ask which state you live in? Are you legitimately concerned about the risk of some sort of constructive intent type charge?

Lester Polfus
01-22-2017, 02:06 PM
May I ask which state you live in? Are you legitimately concerned about the risk of some sort of constructive intent type charge?

Washington and yes. Or more properly " I am more concerned with the stakes of such a charge, when weighed against the marginal improvement over the shotgun I already have."