P320 X-Carry

[HCountyGuy]

One of the new P320 variants being shown off at SHOT show.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/1/15/shot-show-2017-sig-sauer-p320-x-carry-pistol/#

Though I wasn't terribly impressed with my P320C, I'm intrigued by this one and may have to buy myself one.

[Drang]

What I (read: my arthritic hands) want to see is the 320 available in .380.

.22LR would be good, too. If they can do it for the 250...

[Doge]

Hope they are able to release it within a reasonable timeframe.

[Trajan]

I'm not a fan of how 320s shoot, but that new 320X5 looks ideal.

[LockedBreech]

That looks really, really good.

[Balisong]

From what little I could see on the video and from what he said, it SEEMS like the rear sight plate is removable for a Romeo Red dot, but would NOT also allow for a rear sight to be used with it. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

[MMcCall]

That's what it looked like to me, and after my experience with my 320RX, I'm fine with that. A pistol's right radius is too short for competing sighting systems, IMO.

[Edwin]

From what little I could see on the video and from what he said, it SEEMS like the rear sight plate is removable for a Romeo Red dot, but would NOT also allow for a rear sight to be used with it. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

This is correct according to the Sig rep in the American Rifle video from range day yesterday.

[JSGlock34]

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p3230-xseries.jpg

[DpdG]

Dear lord, I hope Sig doesn't pull a Sig and tease us for month, years, neigh.. decades. I have a terrible case of the wantsies for both the regular X-5 and the X-Carry.

[98z28]

Doesn't the Romeo 1 have a rear sight notch milled into it? I suppose not having a rear dovetail makes sense if you're locked into that MRDS anyway.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Drang]

Are the grip modules compatible with standard fire control modules and slides? Cuz I might could see switching my 320 Carry to that module...

[drummer]

I'd like to see the 320-X series available with a thumb safety.

[Balisong]

Doesn't the Romeo 1 have a rear sight notch milled into it? I suppose not having a rear dovetail makes sense if you're locked into that MRDS anyway.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

The one on my RX doesn't. Unless that's a different model of Romeo, I'm not sure.

I'm VERY interested in the mention of 18 round .40 mags. I'm hoping they'll be available separate and fit the "normal" full size 320s in the same manner the 21 round 9mm mags do.

[KCBRUIN]

From the article...
A gun in the size class of the Glock G19

If the 320 X-carry has a carry grip, which it does, it is not in the size class of a Glock 19. It's not even close. The compact 320 is bigger than a 19, let alone with the carry frame.

[UNK]

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/p3230-xseries.jpg

I've wanted to try that grip module since the first time I saw it. I wonder if that trigger will be available individually. I am running the large frame with the Apex flat trigger but I'd be willing to give the Sig trigger a try.

[DpdG]

If the 320 X-carry has a carry grip, which it does, it is not in the size class of a Glock 19. It's not even close. The compact 320 is bigger than a 19, let alone with the carry frame.
In the NRA video the Sig rep claimed the X-Carry grip frame, without the mag inserted, was the same length as the regular 320 Compact grip. He did not specify if that was Compact with mag or without, nor did he address the fact that the Compact may be similar, but is undeniably bigger, than the G19.

[KCBRUIN]

In the NRA video the Sig rep claimed the X-Carry grip frame, without the mag inserted, was the same length as the regular 320 Compact grip. He did not specify if that was Compact with mag or without, nor did he address the fact that the Compact may be similar, but is undeniably bigger, than the G19.

That may be, but the standard carry frame is a full size grip mated to a compact slide. Judging from the picture above, and the print that reads that it comes with 3 17 round mags I would guess the X-carry is a full size frame which would make it bigger than a 19, and more 17 size.

Unless this new frame somehow holds 2 extra rounds in a modified frame?

[MGW]

What I (read: my arthritic hands) want to see is the 320 available in .380.

.22LR would be good, too. If they can do it for the 250...

I would love to see a 320 in .22. Looking to introduce my son to steel challenge. I would buy him two right now. (Okay, I would get one and he would get one. His mom doesn't need to know that though.)

[DpdG]

I agree with you completely. I'm not sure why they tried to make that point, when the magazine is the same length (minus any baseplate dimensional discrepancies) for this new X-Carry and the regular Full Size or Carry. Clearly the breech face cannot have changed location, and the mag tube length hasn't changed, so how does changing the outer aesthetic parts change the dimensions? I really think they were grasping at marketing straws with that claim.

[bravo7]

That thing is fugly.......looks like some arsenal strike abortion.

[UNK]

Are the grip modules compatible with standard fire control modules and slides? Cuz I might could see switching my 320 Carry to that module...

Surely to goodness yes.. I hope so.

[pastaslinger]

I really want the full size 320 X5

[Nephrology]

You know what other great 9mm carry pistol is the size of a Glock 19?


...the Glock 19.

[Kirk]

You know what other great 9mm carry pistol is the size of a Glock 19?


...the Glock 19.

It's also already available and has the best accessories available too. Also, Navy SEALs.

I own 5 P320s of various flavors. I've always been a DA/SA guy, but I've started playing around with SFAs again. I thought I was going to try a 320 in Steel Challenge and Limited (from AIWB), but decided on Glocks instead. Why? Because they shoot virtually identical to the 320 and I can buy the best accessories on earth for it. I can also buy 21r PMags for cheap and pick them up at my LGS.

[HCM]

Also, Navy SEALs.

Do we have an eye roll emoji without a smiley ?

[HCM]

From what little I could see on the video and from what he said, it SEEMS like the rear sight plate is removable for a Romeo Red dot, but would NOT also allow for a rear sight to be used with it. Hopefully I'm wrong about that.

p/BPWFXkqgTfv
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPWFXkqgTfv/

[RAM Engineer]

Unless you're Beretta, stop with the cut-away slides on guns meant for carry.

[Kirk]

Do we have an eye roll emoji without a smiley ?

I think a Charlie Sheen emoji would be more fitting.

[Texaspoff]

It's basically the same gun we shot last year at Sig Shoot day at Shot show. A year later it finally comes out. :) The grip felt good, but it is wider than that standard 320 grip.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/20160118_144420_zpsbgozfl1h.jpg

TXPO

[nwhpfan]

So many new guns, so many options. They do look promising.

[Sasage]

It's basically the same gun we shot last year at Sig Shoot day at Shot show. A year later it finally comes out. :) The grip felt good, but it is wider than that standard 320 grip.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff295/Texaspoff/20160118_144420_zpsbgozfl1h.jpg

TXPO


Wider side to side or front to back?

[Texaspoff]

Wider side to side or front to back?

Side to side, It actually wasn't as ergo friendly as the standard 320 grips. It had a rougher texture, but the profile was blockier, if that makes sense.

TXPO

[Brianjkeene]

Side to side, It actually wasn't as ergo friendly as the standard 320 grips. It had a rougher texture, but the profile was blockier, if that makes sense.

TXPO


Texaspoff, I read elsewhere where you mentioned that the 320 series didn't quite end up doing it for you because you couldn't run them as fast as your Glocks. Do you think the new grip modules of the x-series will enable you to run them faster than the standard grip modules? Do you think it was the grip that was the problem? Thanks.

[SCSU74]

From the article...

If the 320 X-carry has a carry grip, which it does, it is not in the size class of a Glock 19. It's not even close. The compact 320 is bigger than a 19, let alone with the carry frame.

The carry is a full size grip, it isn't meant to compete with a 19. The benefit to a carry is a shorter slide and dual recoil spring as compared to the full size slide.

Looks good to me, but why the port on carry version?

[DpdG]

So the x-5 is in the wild. I got a call from the Sig Academy Pro Shop that my pre-order had arrived. An hour later and: 15612

An hour and 350 rounds later and I'm working to refine my zero. This was as close as I got today, but I need to push the front sight as I've maxed out the "right" adjustment on my rear. 15613

Staff were guessing August for the X-Carry, but emphasized it was not an informed guess.

[pastaslinger]

That is a pretty solid ~2 inch group

How much did they charge if I might ask? I recall people speculated these would go for somewhere in the 800's which would be worth it I think

[Lomshek]

15612


Just going by looks I like the shape of that grip more than the standard 320 grip. The "shelf" SIG puts on their standard grip feels really weird.

[JHC]

So the x-5 is in the wild. I got a call from the Sig Academy Pro Shop that my pre-order had arrived. An hour later and: 15612

An hour and 350 rounds later and I'm working to refine my zero. This was as close as I got today, but I need to push the front sight as I've maxed out the "right" adjustment on my rear. 15613

Staff were guessing August for the X-Carry, but emphasized it was not an informed guess.

How is the fresh trigger?

[DpdG]

LE price was $753.

Trigger is very nice, but not super light. I have a curved PELT on another, non-x series, 320. I am not sure yet exactly where the x series falls between stock and PELT in pull weight. Feel is very good, with occasional double click during slow dry fire. Not felt during live fire. I will be switching to flat triggers across the board soon as I don't get any trigger bite, which happens during higher round count days with the curved trigger.

[Dismas316]

LE price was $753.

Trigger is very nice, but not super light. I have a curved PELT on another, non-x series, 320. I am not sure yet exactly where the x series falls between stock and PELT in pull weight. Feel is very good, with occasional double click during slow dry fire. Not felt during live fire. I will be switching to flat triggers across the board soon as I don't get any trigger bite, which happens during higher round count days with the curved trigger.

Obviously the grip is different, and a slight undercut under the trigger guard. While I know it's subjective, how do you like the ergonomics on this compared to the reg.320? They also have made a big deal of the accuracy, with the pre-tensioned trigger, (still haven't heard a good definition of what exactley that means), any difference you can tell? Although guns today are certainly more accurate than I am.

Big fan of the flat trigger, I have both the gg & the apex. I would assume the trigger is pretty much the same, not really light but pretty smooth.

Your pics look great, thanks for posting.

[Tamara]

If the overall grip profile of a gun designed to be an out-of-the box contender in Production happens to be very similar in size and shape to the current dominant gun in Production, it's for the same reason that dolphins, sharks, and ichthyosaurs are all shaped pretty much the same.

[DpdG]

Feel- wish this grip profile were standard. It's that good.

Pre-tension: I'm pretty sure it is not the trigger, but rather the barrel lock-up. This thinks locks up tight, to the point if you ride the slide it won't go completely in battery without a tap on the slide. This follows the upper assembly, as it does the same on my other fcu. Whether it's the cause or not, the 25yd group shown is my best ever. I'm no bullseye shooter by any stretch.

[Dismas316]

Feel- wish this grip profile were standard. It's that good.

Pre-tension: I'm pretty sure it is not the trigger, but rather the barrel lock-up. This thinks locks up tight, to the point if you ride the slide it won't go completely in battery without a tap on the slide. This follows the upper assembly, as it does the same on my other fcu. Whether it's the cause or not, the 25yd group shown is my best ever. I'm no bullseye shooter by any stretch.

Yes I meant pre-tensioned barrel, not trigger. It's good to hear the changes they are making are translating into even a better platform then the original 320.

[DpdG]

Did some more examining- the trigger itself looks identical to the flat PELT when installed in the grip frame, but the lever arm above the pivot, which attaches to the trigger bar, is the same length as the OEM curved trigger. Trigger bar spring also looks to be the same gauge as OEM. I put the GG lighter gauge trigger bar spring in with the x-series trigger and holy smokes that feels good. As good or better that PELT and GG spring in my other FCU. I have to imagine a PELT and spring would be very, very light.

I'm thinking either the striker or sear springs, most likely striker, are not the same as the non x-series guns.

[Tamara]

Did some more examining- the trigger itself looks identical to the flat PELT when installed in the grip frame, but the lever arm above the pivot, which attaches to the trigger bar, is the same length as the OEM curved trigger. Trigger bar spring also looks to be the same gauge as OEM.

Yup. Per Bruce, the lockwork of the X-series guns is the same as the current 320's, just with the straight trigger.

[Craw]

Are the X-series pistols duty guns or are they designed more as competition guns?

[DpdG]

The X-5 is designed specifically as a competition gun, and I would not be comfortable using it for duty. The front sight is a very thin fiber optic, and the bull barrel is fitted so tightly I'm not sure how it would tolerate the gunk that accumulates in every duty gun. In addition, it weighs a good deal more than a normal P320F due to the bull barrel, the weighted grip, and the aluminum mag well.

The X-Carry and VTAC probably could be used as duty guns, though the open slide cuts are debatably an issue for duty carry. I know a lot of people use G34/35 on duty without issue, so my fears are likely towards the paranoia end of the spectrum. With that said, I have an X-Carry pre-ordered as a potential off-duty ccw and if I were looking for a true duty gun I would likely go for the VTAC and change out the sights for something less busy.

[Tamara]

Are the X-series pistols duty guns or are they designed more as competition guns?

So...a magazine I write for is definitely focused more toward the defense side of things. At SHOT, I mentioned to my editor that I'd really like to do a review of the X-Five. He said "That's the gamer gun, right?" I was like "Well, until you stuff it down your trousers; then it's a carry gun."

[JHC]

This pic is getting passed around FB. It is reputed to be a factory test target (25 yards). Mulder's words were never more true for me, "I want to believe!"

15964

[pastaslinger]

This pic is getting passed around FB. It is reputed to be a factory test target (25 yards). Mulder's words were never more true for me, "I want to believe!"

15964

Guess who wants an X5 now

[LockedBreech]

"Well, until you stuff it down your trousers."

A major catalyst / point of change in a surprising number of objects and life directions.

I truly do not know how people manage to carry giant duty-style guns, and I'm 6'5" and 240. I am missing a trick somehow.

[45dotACP]

A major catalyst / point of change in a surprising number of objects and life directions.

I truly do not know how people manage to carry giant duty-style guns, and I'm 6'5" and 240. I am missing a trick somehow.
I was told that my G34 was pretty much invisible in a 4:00 position at an IDPA match under a t-shirt. I'm 5'9 155lbs.

Just gotta find your groove. Personally I never found it to be significantly easier to shoot the 34 than my 19 so I just carry the 19.

I'd be on the Sig 320 like cheap cologne if it had a mother effing thumb safety.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[LockedBreech]

I'd be on the Sig 320 like cheap cologne if it had a mother effing thumb safety.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

I would imagine that when the line is fully rolled out all the 320s will have that option. Since it was part of the MHS terms, and that can be a major selling point for some people (I think it's one of the best traits of the M&P series guns to offer it), Sig won't miss that opportunity.

[Ndbbm]

I would imagine that when the line is fully rolled out all the 320s will have that option. Since it was part of the MHS terms, and that can be a major selling point for some people (I think it's one of the best traits of the M&P series guns to offer it), Sig won't miss that opportunity.

Couple of posts down, about a new 320 duty gun, the frame appears to have a cutout and plug where the thumb safety would go.

Jason

[Balisong]

I was told that my G34 was pretty much invisible in a 4:00 position at an IDPA match under a t-shirt. I'm 5'9 155lbs.

Just gotta find your groove. Personally I never found it to be significantly easier to shoot the 34 than my 19 so I just carry the 19.

I'd be on the Sig 320 like cheap cologne if it had a mother effing thumb safety.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Supposedly the Maryland (or is it Massachusetts, I confuse all those commie countries) approved 320 has a thumb safety. I've seen one or 2 pics on other forums of people that have them. Don't know how hard they are to get though, I haven't tried.

[JHC]

Supposedly the Maryland (or is it Massachusetts, I confuse all those commie countries) approved 320 has a thumb safety. I've seen one or 2 pics on other forums of people that have them. Don't know how hard they are to get though, I haven't tried.

My LGS told me last Sat that they had a few safety equipped 320s due in soon.

[Alma]

I have an X5 and can report that the grip does have a marking that looks to be where material should be removed to accommodate the MA/M17 style thumb safety.

[JHC]

I have an X5 and can report that the grip does have a marking that looks to be where material should be removed to accommodate the MA/M17 style thumb safety.

Full review!!!! ;)

[ADKilla]

Feel- wish this grip profile were standard. It's that good.

I handled one at the NRA Exhibit; completely agree. I was able to hold both a 320 carry and the X-carry simultaneously. SIG rep said the X-Carry grip removed material around the palm. Almost made it feel like the elusive small grip module with maybe a bit more material on the back strap.

[Magsz]

So,

Sig X5 weighs in at 6 pounds. My factory 320 weighs in at 7. The full size 320 with the PELT trigger comes in at a little over five pounds.

[DpdG]

Is the PELT you measured the curved or flat? I've compared factory, X5, and curved PELT, but I wonder if the trigger differences between the X5 and factory are due to the different shape rather than an actual mechanical change? Perhaps the scale is reflecting different placement on the trigger due to differing shapes?

[JHC]

I was glamming all over these today at NRAAM. I dig the X and VTAC grips. I heard from the Sig gent it was doubtful the X models will ever see a thumb safety.

There was a thumb safety equipped compact though (or was it a carry?) and IMO that is a very well executed thumb safety. I judged it would be very easy to shoot like a modern 1911 thumb on safety.

[Magsz]

Is the PELT you measured the curved or flat? I've compared factory, X5, and curved PELT, but I wonder if the trigger differences between the X5 and factory are due to the different shape rather than an actual mechanical change? Perhaps the scale is reflecting different placement on the trigger due to differing shapes?

My PELT is a curved trigger. I cant specifically comment on this as im not an engineer and I dont pretend to understand physics but there is probably a geometry change on the flat faced X5 trigger. So, here's some food for thought.

My PELT trigger without the trigger spring took off one pound of weight so the curved PELT itself only accounted for a one pound difference. In total the physical trigger with the trigger spring took off two pounds of weight. I believe that Sig probably consulted with Gray Guns and utilized the physical geometry of the PELT trigger or something similar in the x5.

Make sense?

[DpdG]

The X-Carry is in the wild. I picked mine up from the Academy Pro Shop this morning. 18803
No range report, hopefully tomorrow or Tuesday.

[Jeff S.]

The X-Carry is in the wild. I picked mine up from the Academy Pro Shop this morning.
No range report, hopefully tomorrow or Tuesday.


Interested in your report. Curious if you happen to have a P320 compact. Sig keeps saying that the P320 X Carry (with 17 round capacity) is the same height as the regular P320 Compact (15 round capacity). Can't really wrap my mind around that. Can you confirm?

[banzaijohn]

For those wanting to mount a Trijicon RMR, Springer Precision offers an aluminum adapter plate. I have one mounted on my X5 and it did require minor fitting (just a few file strokes), but it works very well. Just remember that the rear sight assembly lifts off the top of the slide and the RMR plates slide in through the side (notched to hold the assembly). I could not find a Romeo in stock anywhere, but found Trijicon 1st Gen RMRs at Cabelas for $350 (BO'd now for 7 or 8 weeks).

[shakazulu12]

Interested in your report. Curious if you happen to have a P320 compact. Sig keeps saying that the P320 X Carry (with 17 round capacity) is the same height as the regular P320 Compact (15 round capacity). Can't really wrap my mind around that. Can you confirm?

It's sort of accurate. The X-Carry is the same height as a compact grip module, but it ships with full size mags. If you trim the wings off some 15 rounders so they fit flush, it would be the same height as the regular compact.

[Wake27]

For those wanting to mount a Trijicon RMR, Springer Precision offers an aluminum adapter plate. I have one mounted on my X5 and it did require minor fitting (just a few file strokes), but it works very well. Just remember that the rear sight assembly lifts off the top of the slide and the RMR plates slide in through the side (notched to hold the assembly). I could not find a Romeo in stock anywhere, but found Trijicon 1st Gen RMRs at Cabelas for $350 (BO'd now for 7 or 8 weeks).

Can you post a pic? I was wondering how high that setup would be.

[banzaijohn]

18877

[pew_pew]

Are these legit? My dealer got one in yesterday and was showing me. I wasn’t looking for one but they seem pretty cool but I’m pretty much a Glock head and have been buying gen 5s.

[GJM]

I handled an X Carry today. One thing I noted is the rear sight is fixed, and any windage adjustments would be by drifting the front sight in the dovetail.

[HCM]

The Danes just adopted the P320 XCarry as their new service pistol, replacing the venerable P-210.

In tactical tan with the X5 magwell.

25357

[TheNewbie]

The Danes just adopted the P320 XCarry as their new service pistol, replacing the venerable P-210.

In tactical tan with the X5 magwell.

25357

Interesting, and with no safety.

[Bill]

Interesting, and with no safety.

The light strikes and FTE's are the safety!

I kid, I kid! Relax. Seems like people are really liking their X carry's actually. I'm tempted myself to at least shoot one, and I'm pretty anti-Sig at the moment.

[HCM]

Interesting, and with no safety.

Hamlet don’t need no safety!

[Texaspoff]

I'm glad to see it. I have nothing but good things to say about my X carry. It has in fact now replaced Glock as my preferred duty weapon.

https://i.imgur.com/pqn0BrQ.jpg




TXPO

[WobblyPossum]

I got to shoot another students X-5 at a class a few months ago and liked it better than the standard one he also brought. I really dig the X frame. If SIG releases one sized for 15 round mags, I’d be tempted to snag one.


–————————————————
My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.

[Texaspoff]

I handled an X Carry today. One thing I noted is the rear sight is fixed, and any windage adjustments would be by drifting the front sight in the dovetail.

FWIW, we have 4 officers carrying X Carry's as duty pistols, and all the sights were dead on from the factory. I was also concerned about this at first, but with the examples we are running, no sight adjustment has been needed.


TXPO

[Texaspoff]

I got to shoot another students X-5 at a class a few months ago and liked it better than the standard one he also brought. I really dig the X frame. If SIG releases one sized for 15 round mags, I’d be tempted to snag one.


–————————————————
My posts only represent my opinion and do not necessarily reflect the opinions or official policies of my employer. Obvious spelling errors are likely the result of an iPhone keyboard.



In all honesty there isn't much difference between the height between the two. The compact magazine sits up in the frame with the backstrap flush with it, and the X Carry magazines sits a tad below the grip. Its about a 16th of an inch difference overall. I am chopping an X carry frame down to compact dimensions, and I am not sure the result is worth the effort at this point. If I chopped it off and gave it the profile of the regular X carry then it will be a bit shorter, but profiling it like the compact, it isn't much at all.


TXPO

[Hambo]

The Danes just adopted the P320 XCarry as their new service pistol, replacing the venerable P-210.

In tactical tan with the X5 magwell.

25357

The Danes still have an army? Who knew? I googled their army and the number of active duty members is equal to the number of Chicago cops.

It was probably time for a change from the P210, but I'm curious why they wanted the mag well.

[MGW]

I had the opportunity to make a few plate rack runs with an X Carry about a month ago. POI for me seemed to be a bit low at 12 yards. The pistol cycles very fast and was pretty easy to run well. It seemed a bit oversprung but I was running the owners reloads so hard to judge.

That said the X series frames don't fit me. The beavertail rides the knuckle of my thumb and is very uncomfortable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JHC]

The Danes still have an army? Who knew? I googled their army and the number of active duty members is equal to the number of Chicago cops.

It was probably time for a change from the P210, but I'm curious why they wanted the mag well.

Yes and fairly involved in AFG. No peaceful out of the way corners for them. This graphic clip is from a fight in Helmand. I've heard the Danes will get after it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93oO7TKHEg&bpctr=1523635360

[SouthNarc]

Yes and fairly involved in AFG. No peaceful out of the way corners for them. This graphic clip is from a fight in Helmand. I've heard the Danes will get after it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h93oO7TKHEg&bpctr=1523635360

Norwegian, Finn, Danish, Swedish SOF generally punch well above their weight class.

[Kyle Reese]

The Danes still have an army? Who knew? I googled their army and the number of active duty members is equal to the number of Chicago cops.

It was probably time for a change from the P210, but I'm curious why they wanted the mag well.

Yup. All of the Danes that I encountered whilst deployed have been very squared away. Hope their new SIG works out for them.

[98z28]

The X Carry grip is very close in size to the compact grip. This is a compact with a 15-round magazine and a compact with an X Carry grip module and a 17-round magazine.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/2d404672d74ff2288380f7de65c9306f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180414/ccc7e4026d3e83f9c5ba7690f82a48a4.jpg

[Super77]

Yes and fairly involved in AFG. No peaceful out of the way corners for them. This graphic clip is from a fight in Helmand. I've heard the Danes will get after it.

Yeah they definitely get after it. I was told by one of them that they don’t like the P210 and all with they had Glocks. I guess now they’re almost getting what they want.

[TheNewbie]

I really like the X-Carry, especially if it had a safety. The problem is I just can't bring myself to trust Sig. All that aside, I am excited and hopeful that the platform will be an amazing service weapon, and that one day I can trust Sig again.

[Sootnsmoke]

Nothing against Sig. I own a Sig as well. However, high bore axis gun designs provide me noticeably less leverage under recoil.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[HCM]

Nothing against Sig. I own a Sig as well. However, high bore axis gun designs provide me noticeably less leverage under recoil.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

Rather than go down the rabbit hole of why “high bore axis” is not really a thing, and derail the X carry thread, Please check out this thread :

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1531-Low-Bore-Axis-how-important-is-it

[98z28]

Nothing against Sig. I own a Sig as well. However, high bore axis gun designs provide me noticeably less leverage under recoil.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using TapatalkSootnsmoke,

Please don't take the following rambling as a personal attack. Your experience with your guns is valid for you, and nothing I'm going to say negates that. I just see and hear the blanket statement "lower bore axis is better" quite often, and it does not match up with my shooting experience.

There is an appeal to physics here that is seductive, but misleading. It only works when all things are equal. For example, if you had two Glock 17's, one with a higher bore axis, but otherwise equal in all respects, then we would probably all agree that the lower bore axis version is superior in recoil characteristics. But..guns with different bore axes are not equal in all other respects. They have different gripes shapes, different grip textures, different slide weights, different recoil spring weights, etc. All of these small things add up to very different shooting experiences.

I found the HK P30 to be one of the flattest (least front sight rise) shooting guns I've ever handled, despite the high bore axis (I have yet to shoot a PX4C that everyone is going nuts over).

Another data point: I spent Monday on the range with a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Sig P320 compact with X Carry grip module. I experienced less sight lift with the 320 than I did with the Glock, despite the large difference in bore axis. Physics being what it is, there must be more variables at play than just bore axis. The grips on some guns probably just allow my anatomy to get more leverage than others.

Another thing I've noticed is that the amount of sight lift is not the most important variable in reducing split times. The amount the sight wiggles or bounces after recoil is the most important variable, in my experience. Glocks take far more effort to settle the front sight acceptably compared to something like a P30 or Sig 320. With the latter guns, the sight returns to the rear notch with little or no input from me. Undoubtedly that has something to do with my unique anatomy and the time I've spent with those guns compared to Glock.

Rant over. Again, Sootnsmoke, please don't take my rambling personally. Your statement is widely stated and accepted. It just doesn't match up with my experience.

[98z28]

Ha! HCM is wiser and quicker than I am!

[HCM]

Sootnsmoke,

Please don't take the following rambling as a personal attack. Your experience with your guns is valid for you, and nothing I'm going to say negates that. I just see and hear the blanket statement "lower bore axis is better" quite often, and it does not match up with my shooting experience.

There is an appeal to physics here that is seductive, but misleading. It only works when all things are equal. For example, if you had two Glock 17's, one with a higher bore axis, but otherwise equal in all respects, then we would probably all agree that the lower bore axis version is superior in recoil characteristics. But..guns with different bore axes are not equal in all other respects. They have different gripes shapes, different grip textures, different slide weights, different recoil spring weights, etc. All of these small things add up to very different shooting experiences.

I found the HK P30 to be one of the flattest (least front sight rise) shooting guns I've ever handled, despite the high bore axis (I have yet to shoot a PX4C that everyone is going nuts over).

Another data point: I spent Monday on the range with a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Sig P320 compact with X Carry grip module. I experienced less sight lift with the 320 than I did with the Glock, despite the large difference in bore axis. Physics being what it is, there must be more variables at play than just bore axis. The grips on some guns probably just allow my anatomy to get more leverage than others.

Another thing I've noticed is that the amount of sight lift is not the most important variable in reducing split times. The amount the sight wiggles or bounces after recoil is the most important variable, in my experience. Glocks take far more effort to settle the front sight acceptably compared to something like a P30 or Sig 320. With the latter guns, the sight returns to the rear notch with little or no input from me. Undoubtedly that has something to do with my unique anatomy and the time I've spent with those guns compared to Glock.

Rant over. Again, Sootnsmoke, please don't take my rambling personally. Your statement is widely stated and accepted. It just doesn't match up with my experience.

Since we are going down that rabbit hole.....

Another good point is sometimes it FEELS like you have less leverage but the timer and target say you don’t. ToddG’s “Feelings Lie” blog post from Pistol-Training.com is on point here.

https://pistol-training.com/archives/5108

[leathermaneod]

I noticed much more muzzle rise with my P320 compact than I did with my shield or XD mod.2 subcompact. I also shot the P320 much less accurately than the other two. High bore axis may not effect everyone equally, but it is definitely a real factor.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GJM]

Muzzle rise, in itself, is irrelevant. Muzzle rise can come from the gun’s design, the power factor of the ammo, and especially the technique of the shooter. Just today, while waiting for a shooting bay to open up, I was watching a large man shoot a 9mm Glock, and the pistol lifted like when my wife shoots a Scandium .44 Magnum. His fingers came open every shot, and he had to reacquire his grip each shot.

What is important is hit factor, or the maximum amount of points the shooter can harvest in the least amount of time. High hit factors have mostly to do with shooter technique, trigger characteristics and how predictably the gun returns.

[Alma]

Definitely more to the equation. I personally believe that positioning of your support hand has more to do with recoil control than pure bore axis.
For reference here is my X5 and a 2011 with a 9mm bore rod aligning there two perfectly at the muzzle.
https://i.imgur.com/vwro1qLr.jpg

[Sootnsmoke]

Sootnsmoke,

Please don't take the following rambling as a personal attack. Your experience with your guns is valid for you, and nothing I'm going to say negates that. I just see and hear the blanket statement "lower bore axis is better" quite often, and it does not match up with my shooting experience.

There is an appeal to physics here that is seductive, but misleading. It only works when all things are equal. For example, if you had two Glock 17's, one with a higher bore axis, but otherwise equal in all respects, then we would probably all agree that the lower bore axis version is superior in recoil characteristics. But..guns with different bore axes are not equal in all other respects. They have different gripes shapes, different grip textures, different slide weights, different recoil spring weights, etc. All of these small things add up to very different shooting experiences.

I found the HK P30 to be one of the flattest (least front sight rise) shooting guns I've ever handled, despite the high bore axis (I have yet to shoot a PX4C that everyone is going nuts over).

Another data point: I spent Monday on the range with a Gen 5 Glock 17 and a Sig P320 compact with X Carry grip module. I experienced less sight lift with the 320 than I did with the Glock, despite the large difference in bore axis. Physics being what it is, there must be more variables at play than just bore axis. The grips on some guns probably just allow my anatomy to get more leverage than others.

Another thing I've noticed is that the amount of sight lift is not the most important variable in reducing split times. The amount the sight wiggles or bounces after recoil is the most important variable, in my experience. Glocks take far more effort to settle the front sight acceptably compared to something like a P30 or Sig 320. With the latter guns, the sight returns to the rear notch with little or no input from me. Undoubtedly that has something to do with my unique anatomy and the time I've spent with those guns compared to Glock.

Rant over. Again, Sootnsmoke, please don't take my rambling personally. Your statement is widely stated and accepted. It just doesn't match up with my experience.I agree there is a cumulative effect of many variables, combined with the unique attributes of the shooter. All things being equal, which they never are, I will always choose the lowest bore axis gun. That is a physics constant variable. However, its importance is likely trivial and outweighed if other pistol characteristics are spot on.

Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk

[GJM]

Definitely more to the equation. I personally believe that positioning of your support hand has more to do with recoil control than pure bore axis.
For reference here is my X5 and a 2011 with a 9mm bore rod aligning there two perfectly at the muzzle.
https://i.imgur.com/vwro1qLr.jpg

Alma, I am curious about the design of the X grip. I like how it is undercut, and the side panels, but I don’t like the extended beavertail, and prefer the beavertail on the regular 320 grip, as the X design seems to place my hand lower and prevent me from indexing high n the start of the draw, and riding down into position like I do with a Glock and Walther. Would you be able to modify that beavertail area when doing your frame treatment?

[Alma]

Alma, I am curious about the design of the X grip. I like how it is undercut, and the side panels, but I don’t like the extended beavertail, and prefer the beavertail on the regular 320 grip, as the X design seems to place my hand lower and prevent me from indexing high n the start of the draw, and riding down into position like I do with a Glock and Walther. Would you be able to modify that beavertail area when doing your frame treatment?

There's no reason you couldn't cut it back to where it was on the standard P320. The shape was a bit odd to me at first but I I have gotten used to it.

[UNK]

There's no reason you couldn't cut it back to where it was on the standard P320. The shape was a bit odd to me at first but I I have gotten used to it.

I have a couple of questions also. First is about the Sig Romeos. How do you rate them? Do you consider them duty ready?
Secondly I talked with Sig about the X Grip. Sig customer service told me they had the smallest grip circumference and shortest reach to the trigger of all the grips. Since I use a Lg grip module (only 1% of grip module sales according to Sig CS) this was disappointing. Do you find these statements to be accurate?
Based on your previous posts concerning grip module modifications I am currrently experimenting on a medium grip module that I am not using trying to get the higher grip.I still need to get some epoxy for internal fill but it is looking promising.

[Bill]

Alma, I am curious about the design of the X grip. I like how it is undercut, and the side panels, but I don’t like the extended beavertail, and prefer the beavertail on the regular 320 grip, as the X design seems to place my hand lower and prevent me from indexing high n the start of the draw, and riding down into position like I do with a Glock and Walther. Would you be able to modify that beavertail area when doing your frame treatment?

I just picked up an X5 full size and have begun to play around with it. I'm noticing the same thing about the beavertail area. For me, its the thicker area around the side of the beavertail (i.e. where the first knuckle of my thumb/web of my hand hits) that stops me from really driving the web of my hand higher. That area is just too broad where they tried to square up the grip. Overall I MUCH prefer the x grip to the very round p320 grip, but that one spot may need addressing. If I get brave and try radiusing that spot down a hair, I will report back.

[Bill]

By way of an additional data point: My x-five performed very nicely in a 5 hour Modern Samurai Project lesson yesterday. 650 rounds without issue, romeo1 did all the things you would want it to do. No issues. Gun has about 1200 rounds on it now, no cleaning. Replaced the trigger shoe with the PELT and will upgrade the rest of the trigger parts when grayguns has them in stock again. In a perfect world the current 5lb's its at could stand to be 4lb's and I'd be happy.

[Yung]

I've been thinking about the X-Carry for quite some time, since around the time I owned a 320 Compact, sent it back for the trigger upgrade, and sold it back to an LGS. Last week I paid them another visit and a used model was in the cases for somewhere under 550.

While I like the stock sights, the G45 I also picked up that visit was my first exposure to Ameriglos in the flesh, and I'm impressed by the contrast to the point that if they work really well for me next time at the range, I might replace the X-Ray front.

However, I should have done some more homework before buying, as the weapon doesn't quite return to battery if you ride the slide forward from the locked position. It doesn't happen if I slingshot or just hit the slide stop, so I don't think I'll have to deal with it during actual operation, but I wonder if it's something that will eventually work itself out. Or not, since I don't know how much the previous owner broke it in. A glance at a couple threads talking about this issue on other threads says that customer service says it's normal.

Month of manufacture tag on the case says June 2018, but that was also the same date on the P365 I bought when I read too many Internet arguments saying all the time beta issues were totes gone now, so there's that. Boy that was a lesson in masochism. I really need to sort myself out.3086230863

[HCM]

I've been thinking about the X-Carry for quite some time, since around the time I owned a 320 Compact, sent it back for the trigger upgrade, and sold it back to an LGS. Last week I paid them another visit and a used model was in the cases for somewhere under 550.

While I like the stock sights, the G45 I also picked up that visit was my first exposure to Ameriglos in the flesh, and I'm impressed by the contrast to the point that if they work really well for me next time at the range, I might replace the X-Ray front.

However, I should have done some more homework before buying, as the weapon doesn't quite return to battery if you ride the slide forward from the locked position. It doesn't happen if I slingshot or just hit the slide stop, so I don't think I'll have to deal with it during actual operation, but I wonder if it's something that will eventually work itself out. Or not, since I don't know how much the previous owner broke it in. A glance at a couple threads talking about this issue on other threads says that customer service says it's normal.

Month of manufacture tag on the case says June 2018, but that was also the same date on the P365 I bought when I read too many Internet arguments saying all the time beta issues were totes gone now, so there's that. Boy that was a lesson in masochism. I really need to sort myself out.3086230863

It’s normal on the X series 320’s. No issue in live fire.

[DpdG]

The slide not going fully into battery when eased forward is due to what Sig calls “pre-tension” of the barrel lock-up, and is common to the X series guns. It does not manifest a problem during live fire in my 2 examples over around 2500-3000 rounds. I don’t fully understand what “pre-tension” accomplishes- perhaps ensuring repeatable slide to barrel lockup to increase accuracy?

[Crusader8207]

I was perusing the RSR (firearm distributor) site and they are showing a 15 round version of the X 5 carry as “new” “coming soon”. So it appears they are coming out with a compact sized grip. This makes me happy as I have made my own version of the same pistol.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181204/d8255b3ce3ec1f74e4f79bac47df299f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Texaspoff]

I was perusing the RSR (firearm distributor) site and they are showing a 15 round version of the X 5 carry as “new” “coming soon”. So it appears they are coming out with a compact sized grip. This makes me happy as I have made my own version of the same pistol.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181204/d8255b3ce3ec1f74e4f79bac47df299f.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I have been hearing the same as far as a compact version. My LE dealer has some new part numbers he is sifting through, but he said he believes the 15 round version is coming.

I do have this from my distributor as well..... :)

SI320XC9BXR3
P320 X-FIVE CMPT 9MM 15+1 XRAY
320XC-9-BXR3
9mm

Looks like an X five compact is coming, description list the barrel at 3.6"

Specs:

FAMILY:P320 Series
MODEL:P320 X-Five Compact
TYPE:Semi-Auto Pistol
ACTION: Double Action Only
FINISH:Nitron
STOCK/FRAME:Polymer Frame
STOCK/GRIPS:Polymer
WEIGHT:26 oz.
CALIBER/GAUGE:9mm
CAPACITY:15+1
# OF MAGS:2
MAGAZINE DESC:15 rd.
BARREL:3.6"
SIGHTS:X-Ray 3 Night Sights w/Plate
ADDL INFO:Interchangeable Polymer Grips
ADDL INFO:Optics Ready Rear Sight Plate



I'm still waiting on the Pro series to come out. They are taking their sweet time with it.


TXPO

[MGW]

I'm still waiting on the Pro series to come out. They are taking their sweet time with it.


TXPO

I really don't understand how Sig does their release of new products. They never talked about an X-compact and yet it looks like it's ready to ship. I haven't seen the Pro talked about much, haven't seen any indications of it being ready to ship, and yet I shot one this past summer. 229 SAO was announced last SHOT and as far as I know hasn't been talked about since. And on the flip side they announce the 365 and immediately start shipping them even though it's obvious they really were not tested hard before selling them.

There's no rhyme or reason to Sig.

[Crusader8207]

Yeah I have been hearing the same as far as a compact version. My LE dealer has some new part numbers he is sifting through, but he said he believes the 15 round version is coming.

I do have this from my distributor as well..... :)

SI320XC9BXR3
P320 X-FIVE CMPT 9MM 15+1 XRAY
320XC-9-BXR3
9mm

Looks like an X five compact is coming, description list the barrel at 3.6"

Specs:

FAMILY:P320 Series
MODEL:P320 X-Five Compact
TYPE:Semi-Auto Pistol
ACTION: Double Action Only
FINISH:Nitron
STOCK/FRAME:Polymer Frame
STOCK/GRIPS:Polymer
WEIGHT:26 oz.
CALIBER/GAUGE:9mm
CAPACITY:15+1
# OF MAGS:2
MAGAZINE DESC:15 rd.
BARREL:3.6"
SIGHTS:X-Ray 3 Night Sights w/Plate
ADDL INFO:Interchangeable Polymer Grips
ADDL INFO:Optics Ready Rear Sight Plate



I'm still waiting on the Pro series to come out. They are taking their sweet time with it.


TXPO

I too would love the Pro model. Hopefully soon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Texaspoff]

I really don't understand how Sig does their release of new products. They never talked about an X-compact and yet it looks like it's ready to ship. I haven't seen the Pro talked about much, haven't seen any indications of it being ready to ship, and yet I shot one this past summer. 229 SAO was announced last SHOT and as far as I know hasn't been talked about since. And on the flip side they announce the 365 and immediately start shipping them even though it's obvious they really were not tested hard before selling them.

There's no rhyme or reason to Sig.

Yeah I'm not sure they really know what they are doing over there either. I have known about the pro model for a good while and it was supposed to have been released already. My understanding was it was going to be released to LE dealers first then out to the commercial side. So far I haven't heard a peep since. Not that that is a bad thing since I have G45's and they have some pretty big shoes for the Sig to try and fill.


I honestly have no idea why they would have even considered a compact X5 model. Most folks that get the 5 are using it form comp, and I am not sure how well a 3.6 inch version would do in competition. Stranger things have happened I guess.

Since the person who will remain un named, that everyone knows took over, things at Sig have really slipped. I really like the 320 platform overall, and want good things for it, but really guys, there was even a posting about a 365 with the slide marking that was done upside down. How in the world does that get past QC when they are boxing the pistol.


I'm not saying I will stop picking up Sigs, but I will be extremely cautious and will not order one sight unseen. I want to check it for fit, finish and function before I write the check.



TXPO

[MGW]

I picked up a new M11-a1 the week before Thanksgiving. It was under $800 nib and I couldn’t pass it up. I decided I was going back to TDA and was leaning HK but had a weak moment. I have a good history with classic series Sigs and I really want this one to work. Hopefully I can get free time and decent weather to line up and start shaking it down soon.

I will need to buy a second one if this one runs. It’s proabaly not a good sign that I’m not overly optimistic that I can go 2 for 2 on a reliable 229. Hope I’m wrong.

[Robert Mitchum]

https://youtu.be/eThJfjKSQEY
https://youtu.be/mfpw_kegmRQ

[WobblyPossum]

https://youtu.be/eThJfjKSQEY
https://youtu.be/mfpw_kegmRQ

Personally, I won’t carry a gun that doesn’t fly at least 17 meters when launched from a trebuchet. It’s a shame. The X-Series showed such promise otherwise.