Hudson H9

[HCM]

Anyone have info on the Hudson H9 ?

Apparently it's a U.S. made striker fired pistol with a 1911 style sliding trigger.

http://www.recoilweb.com/recoil-exclusive-hudson-h9-revealed-121960.html

https://www.hudsonmfg.com/ETA/chapters/1-4

[Tamara]

I'm having flashbacks (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/11/real-glock-1911-alchemy-arms-spectre/).

[gkieser92]

Looking at the pictures, I wonder why the dust cover comes all the way down to the bottom of the triggerguard? Is there something special with a huge recoil spring or something?

[Drang]

Looking at the pictures, I wonder why the dust cover comes all the way down to the bottom of the triggerguard? Is there something special with a huge recoil spring or something?

If you can't manage an actual low bore axis, make it look like it has a low bore axis...

[Polecat]

Looks lik a rehash of the Alchemy Arms Spectre?

[RJ]

Looking at the pictures, I wonder why the dust cover comes all the way down to the bottom of the triggerguard? Is there something special with a huge recoil spring or something?

Yeah, weird.

To hide the RSA makes sense, but it could be to make it even more like a 1911 cosmetically, because you know, 'Merica?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JSGlock34]

I'm having flashbacks (http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/10/11/real-glock-1911-alchemy-arms-spectre/).

Good pull. It made me think of the new Detonics (http://www.detonicsdefense.com) guns...

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56f1afc1044262c53cf48dc5/56fad7e701dbaecfb8354347/56fade225559863eeabc73b4/1459281471199/STX1.jpg?format=1500w

[newyork]

That Detonics looks like it's made of Play-Doh

[Kyle Reese]

Glock Killa?

Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk

[JonInWA]

It looks like The Boat Anchor won...Best, Jon

[spinmove_]

Incredibly tall dust cover and incredibly long looking chamber. Color me interested albeit skeptical.


Sent from mah smertfone using tapathingy

[JHC]

Anyone have info on the Hudson H9 ?

Apparently it's a U.S. made striker fired pistol with a 1911 style sliding trigger.

http://www.recoilweb.com/recoil-exclusive-hudson-h9-revealed-121960.html

https://www.hudsonmfg.com/ETA/chapters/1-4

Cool if it delivers. No thumb safety? Hmmm.

[SeriousStudent]

Looking at the pictures, I wonder why the dust cover comes all the way down to the bottom of the triggerguard? Is there something special with a huge recoil spring or something?

13013

[JSGlock34]

13013

Well, if you use a rail mounted laser it is going to have a really interesting height over bore...

[KCBRUIN]

Looks cool, and reminds me of silencerco's integrally suppressed pistol concept. Trigger guard is really small.

[vcdgrips]

The Detonics pistol appears to have Novak sights...that is something.

[vcdgrips]

Indeed, my questions for all these " new" would be these: would it not be easier, cheaper and perhaps gain more customers faster etc to build your platform around a magazine ( I am aware that the Pincus 9mm was built around a CMC 9mm Power mag) that is known to work and use commonly avail sight dimensions/configurations as well? i.e. Novak, Glock Sig etc.

Engineers and those in the know enlighten me please.

[Nephrology]

13012

http://i.imgur.com/3B9PRdc.jpg


I suspect it's for a couple of reasons, all relating to achieving a low bore axis, or more importantly a low recoil axis (a term I just made up to describe where the recoil forces all resolve in relation to the shooters hands/arms). I suspect this will be a pretty flat shooting/recoiling gun since it's metal, has a lot of extra mass hanging off the front (due to the enlarged dustcover, etc.), and a low "recoil axis" that resolves straight back in to the web of the shooters hand.


Also looks like it makes for incredibly unergonomic manipulation of most weapon light switches.... the toggles would be at least 2" below where they would be on a normal pistol. a DG switch would be basically necessary (And probably none would fit normally, either)

[Verlyos]

I suspect it's for a couple of reasons, all relating to achieving a low bore axis, or more importantly a low recoil axis (a term I just made up to describe where the recoil forces all resolve in relation to the shooters hands/arms). I suspect this will be a pretty flat shooting/recoiling gun since it's metal, has a lot of extra mass hanging off the front (due to the enlarged dustcover, etc.), and a low "recoil axis" that resolves straight back in to the web of the shooters hand.

Of course, I'm just making all this up from looking at a picture for 30 seconds, so I'm very likely wrong. After all, if it was such a good idea why hasn't it been done before. If I've learned anything from the internet over the past 6 or 7 years it's that unless your last name is Colt, Browning, Kalashnikov, Stoner, or Glock, your ideas with regard to firearms are stupid, dangerous, and can never possibly work -- much less be an improvement.

It appears to have a very similar recoil system (albeit lower bore axis) to the FK BRNO Field Pistol, which is an interesting pistol in it's own right: https://www.fkbrno.com/the-pistol-7-5

As you say though, likely hard to tell how much the recoil system helps by itself with all the mass on the front of the pistol.

[Sal Picante]

So... When is there a gadget for it?
;)

I'd be curious to try it out. (The pistol, not the gadget. Rather, I'm just clarifying since the gadget doesn't exist for this pistol and don't want to make it seem like I'm against the concept of the gadget, you know, "in general")

[Tamara]

If I've learned anything from the internet over the past 6 or 7 years it's that unless your last name is Colt, Browning, Kalashnikov, Stoner, or Glock, your ideas with regard to firearms are stupid, dangerous, and can never possibly work -- much less be an improvement.

There's obviously room for incremental improvements.

However, this is a very mature technology we're talking about, here...


EDITED TO ADD: And I'll admit that a great deal of my skepticism comes from two things I've seen over and over and over again:

1) Lots of great ideas for guns coming from creative engineering types who love guns, but don't really shoot guns, and/or...
2) Interesting engineering solutions coming from companies who don't worry about niggling details like quality control.

This is how we get Bobergs and Heizer Double Taps.

[Jay Cunningham]

http://i.imgur.com/3B9PRdc.jpg



Also looks like it makes for incredibly unergonomic manipulation of most weapon light switches.... the toggles would be at least 2" below where they would be on a normal pistol. a DG switch would be basically necessary (And probably none would fit normally, either)

You mean like on an ALG 6 Second mount?

[YVK]

The dustcover should be able to work like a wing on AIWB holsters. I want one. I like ugly esoteric overpriced shit. Just look at my clothes.

[Totem Polar]

EDITED TO ADD: And I'll admit that a great deal of my skepticism comes from two things I've seen over and over and over again:

1) Lots of great ideas for guns coming from creative engineering types who love guns, but don't really shoot guns, and/or...

...This is how we get Bobergs and Heizer Double Taps.
In no way discounting your experienced observation of the probable. Just noting that this is how we got Glocks, too.


I just wish they'd gone further and incorporated a non-reciprocating, low profile, MRDS mount into he design, but I'm sure they had their reasons for not doing so -- probably because pistol mounted optics is a very niche area currently -- and I don't fault them for it.
Apropos of dick, but: I was just reading a breachbangclear article that observed in an even more off-handed way than I am doing now that Kelly McCann was advocating for serious RDS use back in the mid-90s. Being old enough to remember both "jim grover" and this fact first hand, I was stuck by the observation that this is still seen as fringe 2 decades later. Talk about incremental.

Carry on.

[john c]

Sidheshooter;

I think the technology is just getting to the point where serious RDS use on a pistol is feasible. The RMR was the first sight to break through. Back in the '90s the RDS's could only be frame mounted, and this, couple with the size of the housings, meant that concealability went out the window. Even today, some folks are advocating a frame mounted dot. What does that do for concealability?

I think of RDS's in the '90s like cars in the 1890s. It took 20 years for the technology to break through. We're now at that point. My dept is in the process of working up the authorization to allow them for duty use.

[TGS]

I need to buy a Boberg before I buy this. The Boberg is actually a really cool piece of engineering, and I appreciate the passion and adventure that Arne committed to.

[Tamara]

I need to buy a Boberg before I buy this. The Boberg is actually a really cool piece of engineering, and I appreciate the passion and adventure that Arne committed to.

After playing with that test gun for several months, I was pretty sure I was going to wind up buying one to replace my J-frames for winter coat pocket carry.

I just keep getting cold feet at the malfunction clearance process. Plus this:

13034

[NickDrak]

There's gotta be something else going on with that dust cover that we can't tell from the pics/info released to this point. Guess we'll find out soon enough.

[45dotACP]

Looks neat...But then again so does the CZp10, m&p 2.0, and the 320rx. An integrated WML would be nice...I just can't really afford to jump down the "new gun" rabbit hole again...Though I've gotta say, a M&P 2.0 or SIG 320 with a thumb safety would be awesome...

I played with a limited shooters M&P40 not long ago...The apex trigger setup he had was awesome. But I wouldn't carry it without a thumb safety.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Nephrology]

You mean like on an ALG 6 Second mount?

Something else they have in common - i've never considered buying either

[Jim Watson]

Hudson pictures and dimensions are up.
https://www.hudsonmfg.com/product/

It is not going to compete on price, that's for sure. Except maybe with a pretty nice 1911.

[JHC]

1911 thumb safety available. I want one.

[JHC]

It's certainly possible, but just based upon the pictures I'm betting it has a lot to do with using a rotating take down lever and wanting to have a low bore axis. If you want to avoid a P320-esque bore axis you need to move the take down lever forward of the trigger guard. Then, in order to use a fairly standard RSA on a 4"-ish barrel you'd need to displace it downwards to have room for everything. I suspect there are other recoil related benefits from this configuration but, probably more than a little, it was driven by a low bore axis requirement.

But again, I'm just making this up from looking at the pictures, so it's likely I'm very wrong.

I'd love to see one in person and talk to the designer(s), but unfortunately won't be at SHOT this year. :(

So what is the effect, if any on the perceived recoil from having the RSA set so low?

[joshs]

It's certainly possible, but just based upon the pictures I'm betting it has a lot to do with using a rotating take down lever and wanting to have a low bore axis. If you want to avoid a P320-esque bore axis you need to move the take down lever forward of the trigger guard. Then, in order to use a fairly standard RSA on a 4"-ish barrel you'd need to displace it downwards to have room for everything. I suspect there are other recoil related benefits from this configuration but, probably more than a little, it was driven by a low bore axis requirement.

But again, I'm just making this up from looking at the pictures, so it's likely I'm very wrong.

I'd love to see one in person and talk to the designer(s), but unfortunately won't be at SHOT this year. :(

Unsurprisingly, it looks like you're right. From the Hudson website:

"The H9’s unique design is not simply aesthetic. The unconventional nose of the pistol allows for the barrel and recoil spring to sit drastically lower and closer to the hand than heritage designs. This, coupled with its striker-fired design, creates an extremely low bore axis which reduces torque about the wrist when firing and contributes to unparalleled precision in the shot process."

[jamautry]

After looking at their website, I am interested.

[texasaggie2005]

More information here at WeaponsMan blog; Hudson H9: Striker Fired 1911 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=38167)

[Sal Picante]

So what is the effect, if any on the perceived recoil from having the RSA set so low?

Beats me...

I shot .15's with the CZ and .15's with the Beretta... But we all know the Beretta Brig slide is a just way too much mass on top of the gun.

:rolleyes:

[CCT125US]

More information here at WeaponsMan blog; Hudson H9: Striker Fired 1911 (http://weaponsman.com/?p=38167)

Also from that link, looks like Chris Cerino has involvement in the project. However is off battling cancer...

[YVK]

Beats me...

I shot .15's with the CZ and .15's with the Beretta... But we all know the Beretta Brig slide is a just way too much mass on top of the gun.

:rolleyes:




H9 USPSA Shooting Team? I am in.

Ambi thumb safeties make me feel good about AIWB. 34 Oz unloaded weight, not so much.

[Clobbersaurus]

If they put as much effort into their pistol as they did their promo video, they might have something there.



https://youtu.be/gtDEJNGcUQU

Edit to add: Here's another one they released three weeks ago....cheesy...

https://youtu.be/etaAijJVLuY

[GardoneVT]

If they put as much effort into their pistol as they did their promo video, they might have something there.



https://youtu.be/gtDEJNGcUQU

Edit to add: Here's another one they released three weeks ago....cheesy...

https://youtu.be/etaAijJVLuY

A low bore axis shooting tool for the kale eating demographic.

[vcdgrips]

The evolution of the PDW ( sharp stick to Hudson) video has some apparent live fire of the gun at the 1:40 ish mark. Does it seem to be a very light recoiling, low muzzle flipping platform?

Again curious re what sight dimensions and what mag ( if any) the pistol was built around.

[JHC]

The evolution of the PDW ( sharp stick to Hudson) video has some apparent live fire of the gun at the 1:40 ish mark. Does it seem to be a very light recoiling, low muzzle flipping platform?

Again curious re what sight dimensions and what mag ( if any) the pistol was built around.

You have my attention.

[tcba_joe]

The evolution of the PDW ( sharp stick to Hudson) video has some apparent live fire of the gun at the 1:40 ish mark. Does it seem to be a very light recoiling, low muzzle flipping platform?

Again curious re what sight dimensions and what mag ( if any) the pistol was built around.
That's what it seems the whole gun was built around, with all other considerations being secondary.

Given the chance to start from scratch there are some other things I would have done differently, but this looks nice. I'm rooting for them to not be another cool oddity in the "not-glock/not-1911" dust bin of gun history.

[Hambo]

I carried a P7 for years. This thing is right up my alley.

[azerious]

Do we have a freaking price yet!?!?

NM found it

MSRP: $1,147.00

[seamastersw]

lower MSRP than I expected.

[45dotACP]

Do we have a freaking price yet!?!?

NM found it

MSRP: $1,147.00

aaaaaaaaaaaaand that's a nope for me.

[FPS]

This is just a pet peeve of mine since in a previous professional life I had plenty of people tell me I couldn't do something because others had tried and failed (often at great expense). My, somewhat more professionally worded, response to that was "Fuck you. Your limitations and shortcoming aren't mine. If I knew I was only ever going to be as successful as you, I'd likely never get out of bed in the morning."

I love this for so many reasons...

[Eastex]

I like Hudsonshttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170111/18ec22ea6c617fddec5f532f268caa3a.jpg


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[45dotACP]

The MSRP is only ~$50 more than the MSRP of the M9A3. It's "expensive" but not "terrible". I look forward to hearing reports of how it shoots next week.

Me too. I'd hope it'll be less of a flop than the Caracal

The cost probably puts it more on the area of "I'll consider not hanging around the gunshop counter asking if it's here yet."

The price is something that gives me pause when it's new 1911 money...even though I probably blow twice that in ammo pretty close to yearly...and have definitely blown at least that on getting my 3 gun rig set up...and done a little less on new 1911s. But I'm trying to do this whole "New years resolution" thing to not spend so much on new guns I probably won't shoot as much as my Glock.

Lord knows I've blown a ton of money on new guns though...the Sig 320/M&P 2.0 are tempting me something awful....and now with this gun. So in a way, it's a blessing, because the higher MSRP lets me tell myself it's too much money to go down the new gun rabbit hole...

[45dotACP]

troof...and I'd really be in trouble if Sphinx made a striker fired SDP.

[pangloss]

I think the key design feature is the fact that the proximal end of the guide rod is directly in front of the trigger guard. See the picture from the patent application in the Weaponsman article/blog (http://weaponsman.com/?p=38167). Typically, after a pistol fires, the recoil rod/spring transfers the force to the frame above and in front of the trigger. Transfer of the recoil to that part of the frame gives it more torgue than transfer of the force straight back into the trigger guard. More torque means the gun pivots up more. For the H9, I think Hudson is using the term "lower bore axis" as a convenience. Yes, the bore axis is low, but the dominant factor in the equation is repositioning of the recoil rod to be in line with the hand rather than above it.

As an aside related to marketing, an article I read before Christmas (https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/01/what-makes-things-cool/508772/) is somewhat relevant to this discussion. Prior to reading the article I was not aware of "MAYA" as a design concept. MAYA stands for "Most Advanced Yet Acceptable." Basically, people don't like radically new things, so designers have to make slow refinements to products if they want people to still buy them.

[Dave Williams]

I'm really interested in this gun.

I'm also interested in the mag. Pre-existing?

[Jim Watson]

Good question, 15x9mm.
They could have built it around a proven pattern from Smith, Beretta, or Sig.
Or one of those tubes with a different catch notch location like CZ has done with the P10.
I doubt they will make a pronouncement, it will take somebody with a gun sticking in every magazine he can find.

[SLG]

It us an ugly gun, no doubt. I'll reserve judgement on its actual merits though until I shoot it. Some of your favorite people have been working on it, so maybe you'll like it when you find out who was working on it.

[SLG]

As far as red dot being fringe...that's because the tech is still not reliable enough for most of us. Also, guys were carrying slide mounted mrds in the 90s. I saw and shot more than a couple of them back then. Usually used a Dr optic.

[vcdgrips]

Food for thought. Flirting with the edge of my lane.

Lights are not for everybody. A Surefire type DG switch would likely abate some of the running w the light issue. Raven style "pancake" kydex OWB holster could conceal the pistol light package fairly well presuming a good belt. I say this as someone who AIWBs a Gadget equipped G35 most days and used to OWB a G35 w/ a TLR 1 routinely with a Raven set up described above.

There are many that would gladly give 1k for a 15+ round 9mm with a 1911esque trigger presuming 1. quality sights were available 2. The magazines were reliable/available under 40-50 and did not need to be "tuned" etc. and 3. The weapon itself proved to be reliable. The 1kish price point is a bargain relative to many 1911 inspired "hicap" 9mms pistols on the market i.e. SVI and STI.

I have only seen the one "History of the Sharp Stick Video". To my moderately trained eye, that pistol seems to shoot very flat at the 1:40ish mark.



Bottom Line: Color me intrigued.

[Dagga Boy]

I m still holding out for this thing.

[Nephrology]

I m still holding out for this thing.

You are a man of impeccable taste.

[JHC]

It us an ugly gun, no doubt. I'll reserve judgement on its actual merits though until I shoot it. Some of your favorite people have been working on it, so maybe you'll like it when you find out who was working on it.

Whoa! Hmmm, Proctor and Hackathorn eh? :D

That's some juicy shit right there.

I was already geeked out about the RSA positioning that Pangloss just commented on.

[Kingsfield]

I think the key design feature is the fact that the proximal end of the guide rod is directly in front of the trigger guard. See the picture from the patent application in the Weaponsman article/blog (http://weaponsman.com/?p=38167). Typically, after a pistol fires, the recoil rod/spring transfers the force to the frame above and in front of the trigger. Transfer of the recoil to that part of the frame gives it more torgue than transfer of the force straight back into the trigger guard. More torque means the gun pivots up more. For the H9, I think Hudson is using the term "lower bore axis" as a convenience. Yes, the bore axis is low, but the dominant factor in the equation is repositioning of the recoil rod to be in line with the hand rather than above it.

I am suspicious of the accuracy this assertion as to the importance of where the recoil assembly interacts with the frame. Rather, I expect that the manufacturer's reference to lower bore axis accurately describes the aspect of the change in geometry that will mitigate rotation of the pistol.

Because the slide is constrained to remain parallel with the frame, increasing the distance from the main body of the slide at which the recoil spring assembly interacts with the slide increases the torque on the slide. That means that, in order to keep the slide parallel with the frame, there is more downward force on the slide where it meets the front rails, and more upward force on the slide where it meets the back (proximal) rails. Thus, there is more upward force applied by the front rails to the slide, and more downward force applied by the back (proximal) rails to the slide.

This does not affect the torque on the pistol as a whole. Rather, it simply gives rise to a reallocation of forces within the pistol system that are applied to keep the slide parallel and in contact with the frame.

To look at it another way, I should think the material forces and torques applied the pistol system as a whole (in addition to gravity), e.g., excluding friction within the barrel and any minor asymmetric forces on the barrel as a bullet travels down a slightly moving barrel, and which collectively determine the motion of the pistol system are:
force at the breechface; and
torque and force from the hand holding the pistol.

I should, however, be happy to learn more of the relevant modeling of the mechanics of pistol design from those on the forum who are practicing engineers.

[Totem Polar]

Sigh. I have to admit that I am hooked on at least following this thing's progress. Another "X-files" gun for me: "I want to believe..."

[Drang]

bah blah blah


yadda yadda yadda

Only on PF.com would thread drift threaten to break out in calculus...

[P.E. Kelley]

I'll own one as soon as they are available. Some of you like my review approach some..meh...but I will buy it and show you what
it does without any obligation of my being sent one. Not that I have enough juice for them to even consider it.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I'll be looking forward to the video.

Personally I am really excited for this gun. It is pretty damn close to how I would design a pistol from the ground up.

They come with Trijicon HD sights which implies they are using a popular manufacturers dovetail, that would make me really happy.... Oh how I hate every gun companies obsession with having their own proprietary sight dovetails...

Really hoping it takes 1911 grips and somebodies current production magazines.

Will probably wait for gen2 to actually buy one though. By then they will hopefully have a lower price and an aluminum frame option.

[Jim Watson]

Wouldn't it have been nice if Remington had made the P51 of a quality to justify $1147? If they could, which may not be possible.

[Jay Cunningham]

I just read the patent application for the H9 and I learned some interesting things. I have no idea how much has changed since it was filed about 18 months ago, but there are a lot of small parts in that gun. Also (of particular interest to me) while the striker is not fully tensioned, the striker spring retainer (roughly equivalent to the spacer sleeve on the Glock striker assembly) is unfortunately not open at the rear (like the Glock part). So, a Glock style drop-in Gadget type device might be possible, but it would probably also require a modified striker spring retainer. If I ever make any money, I might be able to pick up a H9 and claim it as a business expense. :)

EVERYTHING is a business expense.

[Hambo]

there are a lot of small parts in that gun.

Ooh, more P7-ish by the minute.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

For those interested, there is a very brief intro to the gun at SHOT show range day over at thefirearmblog.com

It looks like the front sight is an M&P, but the rear sight cut is proprietary. I consider that half a win, better options than most small gun companies.

They didn't say if the grip panels were 1911 or not, but I'm guessing they are a proprietary design since it would be a selling point.

Very interested to see what the internals look like.

[JHC]

For those interested, there is a very brief intro to the gun at SHOT show range day over at thefirearmblog.com

It looks like the front sight is an M&P, but the rear sight cut is proprietary. I consider that half a win, better options than most small gun companies.

They didn't say if the grip panels were 1911 or not, but I'm guessing they are a proprietary design since it would be a selling point.

Very interested to see what the internals look like.

A monumental undertaking. I wish them monumental success.

[Greg Bell]

I'll be picking one up.

[JHC]

I'll be picking one up.

I'm about 99% ready to take a flyer on one. I think I need more all metal semis in my life.

Edit: when I can get a 1911 type safety.

[Totem Polar]

Pretty flat shooting in that short 3 mag vid clip. Definitely going to be interesting.

[KCBRUIN]

Looks pretty darn good in that short shooting sesssion.

[MSparks909]

Not sure how to embed videos from Instagram but here's some more shooting footage. It does shoot very flat.
Edit: It also chunks brass! And not at your face ala #Perfection

p/BPWHzB3l8CJ
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPWHzB3l8CJ/

[jetfire]

I shot it today at Media Day, didn't take any photos. It shot very nice, although I felt like the trigger safety doodad was kind of weird. I probably won't buy one, but it's a genuine new idea and I hope they sell a pissload of them.

Oh also the magazines are based off the 5906 magazine. Word on the street is you can modify a 3rd Gen Smif mag to fit. They also said that new mags would retail for around $30

[DpdG]

That's an...unexpected choice of base magazines. I have no experience with 5906 mags, but given the commercial death of the 3rd gen occurred nearly 10 years ago, I would not have guessed someone would utilize them as a starting point.

[DpdG]

I'd wager you're likely right. Im just surprised 3rd gen mags were in the pile of possibles. Does Mec-Gar make Those mags, or at least didn't they at one time?

[Sigfan26]

That's an...unexpected choice of base magazines. I have no experience with 5906 mags, but given the commercial death of the 3rd gen occurred nearly 10 years ago, I would not have guessed someone would utilize them as a starting point.

It's the ability to use inexpensive mecgar magazines and not promote a system in current use (as in Sig or Beretta), if I had to guess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Interview with the owners/designers, 50 minutes so probably not worth your time unless you share my weird taste and optimism for this pistol:cool:


https://youtu.be/unw2q_8ZOFQ

Takeaways:
-grips are not 1911 compatible, but VZ grips is making them so should be some options
-chassis design a la p320. Grip frame has replaceable backstrap and has the potential to be deeply modified without risking destroying the serial #'d part
-thumb safeties are modular (none, left, right, or ambj) and sold separately. Glock dingus is standard.
-can change trigger pull weight by replacing the 1911-style leaf spring (if I understood that correctly)
-lots of claims of very low recoil due to combination of recoil spring in line with wrist and low bore axis
-if they can recover their R&D costs, will be making subcompacts, long slides, aluminum frame, etc.

[LSW]

It actually looks like a really solid USPSA production/IDPA gun once they make enough of them to qualify for those divisions. CZ type weight and if the lowered dustcover/spring further reduces recoil, it looks great for that on paper. Intrigued since it's made close to home too. As much as I hate to be an early adopter, I admit I am tempted.

[JHC]

This is just my own half assed bias but over the years I've gotten this idea that a pistol weight in the 30-35 oz range was a sweet spot for handling and yet not excessively heavy on the belt. Not too hot, not too cold. Just right. 4" K frames, the Combat Commander come to mind.

[Jim Watson]

Agree, I was shooting just yesterday with a gun that looks a whole lot like a Combat Commander.

Nostalgia Alert: I remember being a bug-eyed kid eating up the Gun Digest. Colt and S&W listed their handgun weights in ounces, even to the half ounce. Browning was more straightforward: "Two pounds."

[Hambo]

I'm about 99% ready to take a flyer on one.

Same here. I'm definitely not an early adopter (still carry 1980s guns), but this pistol intrigues me.

[navyman8903]

Not sure how to embed videos from Instagram but here's some more shooting footage. It does shoot very flat.
Edit: It also chunks brass! And not at your face ala #Perfection

p/BPWHzB3l8CJ
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPWHzB3l8CJ/

I'll be picking one up as soon as humanly possible. I don't usually jump on something like this, but given the interesting design, and seeing it run properly, it looks like it will be an amazing gun to shoot. I'm also a big proponent of not having to mess with a gun to get it to extract/eject properly. That's what's keeping me in and out of glocks lately. A dirty and beat Beretta 92FS Centurion I picked up and put wilson guts in (trigger, TRS, RSA, hammer spring, Stock everything else), ejected properly with authority since I picked it up. Punches nice groups too.

I have a feeling this gun will shoot as sweet or sweeter than a P7M8 which is blasphemy I know, but if it stays that flat in my hands, it might nose her out. We'll see.

[Inkwell 41]

I want to like the H9. No, I haven't shot it or even seen it. They seem like the underdog and I like rooting for the underdog. My concern about buying one right off is that this could be the next Bren Ten. Dornaus and Dixon barely got production going when they fell off the face of the earth. Half the guns shipped out without magazines. Not a big deal if you shiny new gun uses a commonly produced magazine, but if its proprietary, and you have no magazine, you have an interesting single shot paperweight. Or if they go under, where do you get parts? I sincerely wish them the best, but I won't partake until they have a record to stand on.

Another option would be to license the revolutionary design to a proven company, like say Bushmaster, where they can take it to the next level... Okay, maybe not.

I do want to try one.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I want to like the H9. No, I haven't shot it or even seen it. They seem like the underdog and I like rooting for the underdog. My concern about buying one right off is that this could be the next Bren Ten. Dornaus and Dixon barely got production going when they fell off the face of the earth. Half the guns shipped out without magazines. Not a big deal if you shiny new gun uses a commonly produced magazine, but if its proprietary, and you have no magazine, you have an interesting single shot paperweight. Or if they go under, where do you get parts? I sincerely wish them the best, but I won't partake until they have a record to stand on.

Another option would be to license the revolutionary design to a proven company, like say Bushmaster, where they can take it to the next level... Okay, maybe not.

I do want to try one.

I share your timidity on plunking down cash on a new design/company, at least for the first year.

However, I'd be willing to bet good money that whatever teething issues this gun has they will be far less severe than Bushmaster/Freedom's most recent attempt to make an interesting pistol: the R51.

[RJ]

I have a feeling this gun will shoot as sweet or sweeter than a P7M8 which is blasphemy I know, but if it stays that flat in my hands, it might nose her out. We'll see.

Blasphemer!!

Kidding; be interested to hear your review on how this shoots.

[That Guy]

My concern about buying one right off is that this could be the next Bren Ten. Dornaus and Dixon barely got production going when they fell off the face of the earth. Half the guns shipped out without magazines. Not a big deal if you shiny new gun uses a commonly produced magazine, but if its proprietary, and you have no magazine, you have an interesting single shot paperweight. Or if they go under, where do you get parts?



Oh also the magazines are based off the 5906 magazine. Word on the street is you can modify a 3rd Gen Smif mag to fit. They also said that new mags would retail for around $30

So that's the magazine concern dealt with, then? At least over here I keep seeing Mec-Gar 59-series magazines in lots of places. I can't imagine there'd be less availability of them in the U.S.? Doesn't of course change your point about spare parts.

[orionz06]

EVERYTHING is a business expense.


This should be in a sticky.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GardoneVT]

One of the barriers to entry in the gun business is customer adoption. It's a weird fact that a new entrant to the gun world in 2017 has to compete against products engineered when the RMS Titanic was under construction. But it is so,because owning a pistol with that long of a track record lends a warm fuzzy feeling should The Untinkable happen.

Ultimately the Hudson has to deliver a quantifiable & accessible improvement to the shooting experience . History is littered with firearms which were inventively better ,but didn't bring any practical value to the customer. See Bren Ten and so on.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by Jay Cunningham
EVERYTHING is a business expense.This should be in a sticky.

So should knowing the difference between a FPC and a FCI (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Bureau_of_Prisons#Types_of_federal_prisons ).

RMOAS: I was at a party not long ago where some guy was declaring that paying taxes was voluntary and that there was no legal duty to pay income taxes. I asked him if he knew the difference between a FPC and a FCI. When he said he didn't know what they were, I suggested that he probably would find out if he took his own advice.

[Stephanie B]

Ultimately the Hudson has to deliver a quantifiable & accessible improvement to the shooting experience . History is littered with firearms which were inventively better ,but didn't bring any practical value to the customer. See Bren Ten and so on.Guns are tools. Lots of people are content with buying tools that they occasionally use from Harbor Freight instead of SnapOn or Matco.

I hope they make it. But when you add in the cost of a few more magazines and holster(s), the number of people who are willing to drop that much into a gun from a start-up company may be a rather small integer.

[Joe in PNG]

There's a development curve with any technology*. You will see leaps and bounds until you hit a certain point. After that, diminishing returns sets in, and everything else is mostly just refinements.
Mechanically, the modern SFA pistol has pretty much the same basic operating mechanism as the 1935 Browning Highpower. The big difference is in materials and production process.
For self loading rifles, the Stoner design from the late 50's has pretty much proved itself best- most competing systems are from the late 40's and older.

A lot of the new gun tech tends toward the gimmick end of things (Hello, Taurus!)

*I'm not an engineer, so there's probably better, more technical language for what I'm trying to express

[ExMachina]

I'm still not convinced that the shooting characteristics of the 34oz H9 could be any better than any other pistol that has a counterbalance mounted in front of the trigger guard. Shoot a Glock/M&P/Sig with a SF X300 on the rail and I'll bet they shoot just as "flat" as the stock H9.

[Magsz]

I'm still not convinced that the shooting characteristics of the 34oz H9 could be any better than any other pistol that has a counterbalance mounted in front of the trigger guard. Shoot a Glock/M&P/Sig with a SF X300 on the rail and I'll bet they shoot just as "flat" as the stock H9.

As has already been detailed in this thread, its not just about weight. Apparently, the positioning of the actual recoil spring has alot to do with the way the gun feels in recoil.

[fishing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1LNq1x7-5E

some additional insight.

[ExMachina]

As has already been detailed in this thread, its not just about weight. Apparently, the positioning of the actual recoil spring has alot to do with the way the gun feels in recoil.

Yes. I understand fully Hudson's explanation (that has also been echoed here). My point was that by putting all that extra mass down low and in front of the trigger guard, I'm not convinced that they didn't just "engineer" a fancy-sounding counter balance.

[fishing]

Unsurprisingly, it looks like you're right. From the Hudson website:

"The H9’s unique design is not simply aesthetic. The unconventional nose of the pistol allows for the barrel and recoil spring to sit drastically lower and closer to the hand than heritage designs. This, coupled with its striker-fired design, creates an extremely low bore axis which reduces torque about the wrist when firing and contributes to unparalleled precision in the shot process."



http://www.thingameez.com/vid-download/1911full_anim.gif

Upon thinking about it for a bit,

I think the key potential advantage with this design is the change in location on this critical interface (1911 shown, but this would apply to any short recoil operated handgun) - which is the location of the transmission of force to the frame of the gun.

In other words,


Round is fired
Slide begins to rearward travel
Slide also pushes the front of the recoil spring back
Recoil spring compresses under above force
Recoil spring is now transmitting energy from the front of it to the back of it as it compresses (at any moment the front and rear ends of the spring are exerting equal but opposite increasing energy
Rear of the recoil spring is pushing against frame of gun here (Red Circle)
Hudson design essentially moves that pushing force downward to around front of trigger guard (Green Circle)


So while the felt recoil effect of the slide mass itself moving rearward would remain the same cet par, the portion of recoil felt as a result of the action against the recoil spring would be moved down, more in line with the hand.

http://i.imgur.com/6OxMXYS.png

this would be in addition of course to the benefit of having a heaver pistol, especially in regards to the weight of reciprocating, sprung components.

AFAIK there has been no current internal view or explanation available, so while not sure, I dont think there is a counterbalancing system in place.

An expanded "dust cover" area could allow for space for that though, even through a simple lever arm where the rearward moving slide would push forward a forward moving counterweight or dampener of some sort.

v interesting stuff at work here

[fishing]

Indeed, one can see the rather significant difference in recoil spring placement relative to the hand.

It's the next logical step versus adjusting bore axis alone such as in the arsenal strike one or steyr m9

Me thinks it would be significantly harder to make the frame for this type of design out of plastic with inserts (ala glock or MP) due to the durability, strength and dimensional accuracy/precision needed.

No problem for Hudson though has having a steel frame fits into the whole partial 1911 lineage thing they are utilizing to other benefit as well as for marketing.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/d4/aa/97/d4aa97f9520a93f4293d7ae2d206736b.jpg

http://stwww.recoilweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/hudson_h9_revealed02-675x450.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/aBtgCx0.png

[Peally]

It's all a bunch of hooplah and marketing so people keep talking about it. If you give Miculek a Hi-Point he's still going to rock the hell out of that thing.

[RJ]

It's all a bunch of hooplah and marketing so people keep talking about it. If you give Miculek a Hi-Point he's still going to rock the hell out of that thing.

This.

I may have missed it, but had anyone here actually shot this thing?

[orionz06]

This.

I may have missed it, but had anyone here actually shot this thing?

Forum members have shot it.

[Peally]

But they haven't shot it shot it. Talk to me after 20K rounds :D

[orionz06]

No, they haven't. I'm fairly certain if provided the opportunity they would have though, I know I would.

[Edwin]

The cynical bastards at Forgotten Weapons were ready to tear it apart for being a gimmick and they say it's the real deal. I'm curious to see how it ends up turning out.

[Peally]

I'm a cynical motherfucker when it comes to new things. Don't get me wrong, if it turns out to be a great pistol I'm going to be impressed, but until it's proven through and through all the discussions about height over bore, grip size, it's the real deal, or whatever are all marketing BS.

[fishing]

I'm a cynical motherfucker when it comes to new things. Don't get me wrong, if it turns out to be a great pistol I'm going to be impressed, but until it's proven through and through all the discussions about height over bore, grip size, it's the real deal, or whatever are all marketing BS.

I don't think anyone is claiming that this will automatically make all who shoot it Grand Masters...

Many of us enjoy thinking about these sorts of things, learning about the potential benefits of engineering behind it etc - no harm done.

We can plainly see a difference in the location of the recoil spring, and theorize about the impact of said change. That alone is not marketing bs.

[Sal Picante]

I don't think anyone is claiming that this will automatically make all who shoot it Grand Masters...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/731798/PF/reasonable.jpg

[fishing]

I retract my statement.
Fedex just came with my new H9. From the first dozen off the production line according to Hudson.
Am now confirmed Grand Master.

Come at me, Peally.

[Peally]

A GM can kick my ass any day, I'm still trying to weasel into M. I bow to you sensei

13408

[ExMachina]

Forum members have shot it.

Yeah, but I have not read about anyone doing more than putting a few rounds through the well manicured specimen that was at SHOT.

That's why I was surprised to see InRangeTV give Hudson so much Tube time--they're usually skeptical guys but they are apparently ga-ga over the H9. While Ian and Karl have earned enough of my respect for me to give them the benefit of the doubt, they don't seem to have had much real experience with the H9 either. However, their enthusiasm alone has put my skepticism on hold and I'm eager to see what the H9 actually delivers.

[JAD]

From their web site: "From its steel frame, to its straight-pull trigger, to its striker-fired design the H9 will feel instantly familiar with any firearms enthusiasts."

Are these guys Chinese? I couldn't even get Google translate to mangle a sentence that badly.

[BobLoblaw]

"Gunsmith no wordsmith."

-Ancient Chinese Proverb

[Trigger]

So question for the experts:

Does the recoil impulse/sensation differ significantly between a Chiappa Rhino and a conventional revolver, assuming equivalent ammunition and handgun weight?

In a semi-auto pistol, the bullet has left the barrel before the barrel unlocks and the slide cycles. The functioning of the slide, extraction, ejection, feeding a new round from the magazine and chambering is a matter of diverting some of the energy from the cartridge firing. Will diverting this energy through a recoil spring assembly relocated 1 inch lower make that much of a difference? The bore axis is a bit lower, but I go back to my Rhino question above.

I guess I'm in a wait and see/shoot mode.

[RJ]

Yeah, but I have not read about anyone doing more than putting a few rounds through the well manicured specimen that was at SHOT.



Yeah, that was kinda my question.

Looking for a Mr. White or SLG or Surf or Mr. Haggard or Paul Sharp or Ms. Tam type of folks to weigh in. I guess it will have to wait until after release (2Q17?). I think it is a cool concept and I wish the designers all the best.

[Sal Picante]

Yeah, but I have not read about anyone doing more than putting a few rounds through the well manicured specimen that was at SHOT.

Even if the first few need to be "shot out" and debugged, good. All these new systems/designs/etc need to get shaken out.

In my hierarchy of things:

If the gun is generally reliable, but breaks after X number of rounds > gun is reliable but small parts breakage 86's some tests > gun can't get through a magazine (R51)

I mean, even the Glock M launched a few slides along the way?

[GardoneVT]

When it comes to carrying life saving hardware that has to work on demand immediately, I err on using something far away from the cutting edge.

[MSparks909]

The latest issue of Recoil (Issue 29) had a good write up on the H9. A couple of things stood out to me in the article..mainly that the prototypes were prone to break the chassis locking lugs around the 1,000 round mark. Hudson engineers stated they were working to revise the design. I'm not sure what specific changes were made but it was interesting to read that. The author stated that recoil management was very good; seemed less "bouncy" than the G34, CZ SP01, XD-M and an M&P Pro they compared the H9 with. The authors did state that the prototype they shot fractured the locking lugs around the last few boxes of ammo they shot for the day.

Tons of info in that article so if you want to know more I recommend picking up that issue of Recoil.

[JHC]

The latest issue of Recoil (Issue 29) had a good write up on the H9. A couple of things stood out to me in the article..mainly that the prototypes were prone to break the chassis locking lugs around the 1,000 round mark. Hudson engineers stated they were working to revise the design. I'm not sure what specific changes were made but it was interesting to read that. The author stated that recoil management was very good; seemed less "bouncy" than the G34, CZ SP01, XD-M and an M&P Pro they compared the H9 with. The authors did state that the prototype they shot fractured the locking lugs around the last few boxes of ammo they shot for the day.

Tons of info in that article so if you want to know more I recommend picking up that issue of Recoil.

Magazine articles; from written to publication have a pipeline of about what? 8 weeks? 12 weeks? It could be much longer in a specific case. But if that short, that doesn't seem like a lot of time to debug, redesign, etc etc rinse repeat.

I'll be buying that issue of Recoil.

[Edwin]

I'm excited for how future iterations of the design will turn out. I think there is potential and it just needs more trigger time.

[orionz06]

Why are we assuming the gun hasn't been shot for more than a few mags?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RJ]

Why are we assuming the gun hasn't been shot for more than a few mags?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tom - I've only seen the (various) SHOT show videos; they don't look real extensive or lengthy.

No huge deal to me.

[orionz06]

Tom - I've only seen the (various) SHOT show videos; they don't look real extensive or lengthy.

No huge deal to me.

My point was that I suspect Hudson may have shot the thing a bit more. Others have though. Apparently they're not gonna chime in here.

I am quite hopeful for it. Not because I want one but because they're willing to try something new. I'll continue to remain hopeful until proven otherwise.

[RJ]

My point was that I suspect Hudson may have shot the thing a bit more. Others have though. Apparently they're not gonna chime in here.

I am quite hopeful for it. Not because I want one but because they're willing to try something new. I'll continue to remain hopeful until proven otherwise.

Gotcha. Makes sense, duh. My bad.

Yeah if there are folks here, cool, but maybe they are bound by a Non-Disclosure Agreement until Launch.

Anyway, it's a cool pistol, wish them the best.

[orionz06]

Product development, especially in the firearms industry, rarely happens in the open for all the internet to see.

But don't you really wanna hear what folks who will never spend a dime on your product think?

[fishing]

Product development, especially in the firearms industry, rarely happens in the open for all the internet to see.

Indeed.

Stealth mode is not just for tech companies anymore.

[fishing]

So question for the experts:

Does the recoil impulse/sensation differ significantly between a Chiappa Rhino and a conventional revolver, assuming equivalent ammunition and handgun weight?

In a semi-auto pistol, the bullet has left the barrel before the barrel unlocks and the slide cycles. The functioning of the slide, extraction, ejection, feeding a new round from the magazine and chambering is a matter of diverting some of the energy from the cartridge firing. Will diverting this energy through a recoil spring assembly relocated 1 inch lower make that much of a difference? The bore axis is a bit lower, but I go back to my Rhino question above.

I guess I'm in a wait and see/shoot mode.

Big difference between semis and revolvers as you mentioned.

Simplistically I'd think the shift in recoil between a conventional revolver and a rhino can be likened to the difference in bore axis alone on a semi such as a p226 compared to an arsenal strike one.

The added variable is the recoil assembly on a semi, and in the case of the h9 it is way lower than anything else.

Looking at the rhino, the bore is still above the trigger. Grip position differences aside, this is still significant.

1 inch may be small in terms of singular measurement, but how significant is that distance in terms of %change in overall grip height etc?

[fishing]

Magazine articles; from written to publication have a pipeline of about what? 8 weeks? 12 weeks? It could be much longer in a specific case. But if that short, that doesn't seem like a lot of time to debug, redesign, etc etc rinse repeat.

I'll be buying that issue of Recoil.

For hudson's sake I hope that the change needed to eliminate the issue is not a major one but who knows.

AFAIK there is no firm release date for public sale of the h9 yet, correct?

If this is the case, I'd tentatively trust that it will only be released when all issues are worked out. Not waiting would be the death knell for them imo

[ExMachina]

Even if the first few need to be "shot out" and debugged, good. All these new systems/designs/etc need to get shaken out.

In my hierarchy of things:

If the gun is generally reliable, but breaks after X number of rounds > gun is reliable but small parts breakage 86's some tests > gun can't get through a magazine (R51)

I mean, even the Glock M launched a few slides along the way?

Agreed. The thing that I found really weird was that even in Ian and Karl's 1 hour interview, they never broke down the gun. Especially given Ian's curiosity, I have to imagine that Hudson said "no". Since they said that all this was patented, I can only assume that they didn't do it because it's quite complex inside. So if I were to guess, I'd say that "small parts breakage" is this gun's biggest obstacle right now.

[fishing]

the business strategy part of my brain likes to theorize about future problems instead of current ones.

as such, what's everyone's take on what Hudson's next distinct product should be, after the fullsize H9?
provided that any remaining issues with the H9 are worked out, and it's sales rollout goes well, what product would you make next if you were them?

H40 - .40 cal version? (substitute whatever caliber instead of .40 you'd like)
H9 Longslide? H9 Compact?
H9 XC "Competition Model"? (tailored to whatever USPSA/IDPA etc class)
H9 DA/SA? (H9 designed but altered somehow to use a hammer setup)
H9 Carry? (With a polymer frame instead of steel, if it would be as reliable/durable)
etc.etc.etc.

I think the key killer feature/differentiator for hudson (related to product, not marketing) is the low bore axis/recoil spring location thing, so that must be retained in their future products.
Close second would be the 1911 like trigger but striker fired thing claimed by marketing.

I'm specifically excluding variants such as a cerakoted model and other simple stuff like that.

[olstyn]

H9 DA/SA? (H9 designed but altered somehow to use a hammer setup)

They seemed to be against using a hammer, at least in terms of what they said in one of the interviews. That doesn't rule out DA/SA on its own (Walther P99, anyone?), but it does make it seem less likely. It also seems like there's not tons of demand for DA/SA guns these days, so the added development cost might not be justified by the projected sales numbers.

[P.E. Kelley]

FWIW, this short video from Media Day has myself and two other shooter pop our 5 measly shots.
1st shooter...average skill? Then myself and the 3rd guy most likely my equal in recoil control.


https://youtu.be/BhkGSSyLBuM

[fishing]

whats your take?

[45dotACP]

Why am I getting flashbacks to the Caracal with this gun?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Edwin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Giq4uEKyOA

[fishing]

my notes on the InrangeTV vidya above - to my knowledge the most substantive release of info on the H9 to date (I have not seen recoil magazine article, cause who reads magazines nowadays...)


Initial discussion of difference between chassis, frame and grip? components of the gun? seems to be some modularity or cartridge type design here, Hudson team did not explain fully or illustrate clearly, perhaps on purpose.
locking lug moved up towards muzzle end of gun. internals not shown on purpose - something different is going on here.
Confirmed benefit of design having moved recoil spring assembly in terms of recoil impulse and controllability.
1.24 inches wide/thick at grips, just a hair over glock 19. said that slide is slightly thinner than glock...
Strong compliments from Carl and Iain on the reset feel of trigger.
comparison made to run the trigger like a 2 stage ar trig
Said recoil mag guys were ringing 8'' steel at 50M. rapid fire during their test
slide and frame are machined from forgings - they posted a few videos of forgings being struck on their IG - will show to one of my engineers at work to see if they can provide some observations
15+1 capacity
target ship date of Q2 2017, will ship with 3 mags at MSRP of $1,150 (seems very aggressive but i have no idea where in final validation/production they are)
already signed to a number of distributors
leaving holster production wide open to market
Triji HD sights included
Front sight cut is MP front sight dovetail.
Rear sight cut is MP front sight dovetail, done to allow sight MFGs to use existing dovetail geometry
swappable grip panels. rear of grip is 2 part (bottom and lower?) to allow for addition of swelled bottom piece etc
~7 patents pending
close to P226 weight, with H9 having steel frame and Sig aluminium
no issues in early testing with various loads and projos (HP and various grains etc)
focusing on 9mm H9 - plans for further variants based on demand and market input
Polymer frame seems like it would be EXTREMELY difficult but not impossible to have on this design. I think aluminum would be possible with correct alloy but would necessitate new forgings




TOM_JONE -

you need to get in contact with Hudson MFG asap if not done already.

if the H9 design allows for use of a gadget or gadget like device (that would be covered by your patent/s), this is your best present and foreseeable future chance to get the gadget integrated into a new production, from the factory gun (instead of being a niche aftermarket product).

[JHC]

FWIW, this short video from Media Day has myself and two other shooter pop our 5 measly shots.
1st shooter...average skill? Then myself and the 3rd guy most likely my equal in recoil control.


https://youtu.be/BhkGSSyLBuM

Very interesting. I like you the best.

[pdb]

H9 XC "Competition Model"? (tailored to whatever USPSA/IDPA etc class)


This seems like the obvious route to me, and I wonder why this wasn't the plan right out of the gate. The H9 is too heavy to be a popular CCW gun, and it's never going to end up in cop holsters or get a military contract. The CZ / Tanfoglio domination of the non-Glock non-1911 competition market seems ripe for a challenge.

[YVK]

That was my thought too right off. However, it means minimum 2000 or whatever required production, ability to lower the trigger pull to competition range and some qualified gamers to at least weigh in on merits of this gun. If they got a Production approval, I'd strongly consider supporting them.

[EVP]

Not that it really matters but in those video clips the ejection looks all over the place.

Looks like a interesting design and props to them for doing something completely different and new.

[Peally]

Yep, it definitely recoils when shot.

[11B10]

You are a man of impeccable taste.


Is he ever!

[fishing]

Thanks for the advice! Nothing says "not niche" quite like the Hudson H9! :)
I did not expect such sarcasm/snark from you.

We have differing opinions on this, I'm OK with that. :)

I agree the H9 currently is niche sure (quite literally as i'd guesstimate there are idk maybe 10 prototypes existing).

Shame on me if I did not express it clearly enough previously but is there some potential validity to the following thoughts?

1 - gadget is current a niche aftermarket product
2 - development and upcoming release of products from hudson is a chance to get the gadget integrated (the best chance imo).

Apologies if you are already working with another MFG (such as "Avidity"), and of course i'd understand if you can't talk publicly about that.

[Peally]

The gadget is a niche aftermarket product that works on what is likely the most popular first world handgun found across the globe. I don't understand why it would be beneficial to design one for a random company that's already in the end-game manufacturing phase of their take on a Glock-killer.

It's fine to be excited about a new gun but expecting it to take off and become the new 45-watt plasma rifle of pistols is banking quite a bit on hope. I may be wrong but I'm guessing Tom sees the risk/reward far too heavy on the risk side.

[orionz06]

I'd bet that if the SCD would work for the Hudson it still wouldn't make sense from a volume sense. How many Glocks are out there now? Hell, how many Glocks were sold in 2016? What's the number of Glocks/Gadget based on that? Take that number and multiply it by the number of H9's that could be produced in 2017.


Lemme know if it's greater than 1.

[fishing]

peally - we have diff. takes on this...

i'd say so long as IP on the gadget is locked down enough, discussing with hudson would not be too risky and could allow for some sweet sweet licensing mailbox money.

I did not say that tom should "design one for a random company" and go through the effort of delivering them a fully developed etc thing.

I think OEM adoption often legitimizes certain things and aids in their more widespread adoption.

I strongly think that not getting the gadget (in current form or the concept of it) into factory produced guns will limit how many people long term will benefit from it.

for all I know though, Glock could already be working on a OEM post-sale install parts solution along the lines of the below though -


Make slide cover plate from delrin or similar material with hole in center (green dot)
Make striker with extended portion at rear (red line)
Test to make sure dirt etc intrusion or friction is not a problem
...
Profit



http://i.imgur.com/JXb7aK7.png
http://i.imgur.com/5snkcfE.png

[Peally]

If you think it's a killer idea, quit telling us and go do it ;)

[Peally]

Just call it the widget, manufacture it in Chinese sweat shops, and smuggle it over the border, problem solved.

[fishing]

The vast majority of the gun-related internet thinks it (and me, and anyone who would even consider using it) is incredibly stupid.


really? I frequently read gun blogs/media etc and was not aware of this.

edited to add the below -




Regarding an OEM Gadget-like device on the H9, I'm sure the last thing Hudson needs right now are even more controversial elements on their pistol.


alternative viewpoint would hold that as the likely initial customer base for this product is less wary of controversial elements or first adopter risk, additional controversial new elements being present on the product would have reduced or negligible effect.

while interesting and contentious currently, it'll be very interesting to see where things are a year from now

[fishing]

sorry to hear that, such a reaction is genuinely unexpected.

So you're saying that as a niche accessory company, your next product will be a pistol bayonet? eta? :)

[modrecoil]

Why am I getting flashbacks to the Caracal with this gun?

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
I'd be curious to hear a recoil impulse comparison from someone who's shot both. With a possible exception of an HK P7, my old Caracals C and F were the flattest-shooting pistols I've handled. I wonder how much the newer design and much higher price tag of the H9 buys in that regard.

[BaiHu]

FWIW, I think anyone who carries a Glock in a holster should consider a Gadget. Do I feel safe holstering my Glock with or w/o a Gadget, yes, but...if I can increase my safety for half a case of ammo or less, for the life of the gun, then why wouldn't I? I liked it so much I ordered a second. I Gadgeted twice :D and I'm low on the numbers compared to many.

FYI: Tom Jones does not pay me, I pay PF and Tau DevGru :cool:

[BaiHu]

sorry to hear that, such a reaction is genuinely unexpected.

So you're saying that as a niche accessory company, your next product will be a pistol bayonet? eta? :)

If you've ever tried to invent something, you'd feel the tiniest bit the way Tom does. I'll do my best impression, in as few steps as possible, with a winning idea:

Day 1 Eureka! I'm a genius! I'll be a millionaire.
Day 2 Shit, shit, shit! Google it!! Mmm, I need a lawyer...
Day 3 Damn, how do I know one good lawyer from a bottom feeder...(that's a joke)
Day 3-1000. Cuz that's how much time/money, time/money, time/money it takes.
Day 3-1000. Tweak, test, tweak, test, tweak, test.
Patent Day! Holy shit! You see the size of the hole in my wallet? Fuck, fuck, fuck, I'm an idiot. Please let me be lucky.
Patent Day +1 Google search: Fuck, fuck, fuck, will anyone ever really buy this? Jesus this took so long that I'm surprised anyone is interested again, including me!!
Patent Day + lots of alcohol Hell yeah, people made millions off of pet rocks! Shwew!
Patent Day +whatever How the fuck do we manufacture/market this shit? OMG! See patent day and patent day +1 GS
Patent Day+100 Ughhhhh, I need to make it in China?? I thought this was gonna be simple.
Patent Day +200 Whuuuu? It's gonna cost huh? to make in Amerikuh?? WTF?? See PD & PD+1GS again...
1st Round Receiving/Shipping Days: Where is it, where is it? Soon?
2nd Round Rec/Sh WTF was I thinking being in the CS business, I thought I was inventing something.
Fuck, I should've just been born rich and never thought about this fucking idea.

And that's the shortest version I can think of on a successful idea to market experience I can think of off the top of my head...

Go to bed tonight and pray for Tom's sanity :p

[fishing]

um wut?

[Peally]

What he's saying is your idea is a long shot to be risking your entire pile of financial assets and years of your life.

[fishing]

What he's saying is your idea is a long shot to be risking your entire pile of financial assets and years of your life.

the pistol bayonet?

[TicTacticalTimmy]

The latest issue of Recoil (Issue 29) had a good write up on the H9. A couple of things stood out to me in the article..mainly that the prototypes were prone to break the chassis locking lugs around the 1,000 round mark. Hudson engineers stated they were working to revise the design. I'm not sure what specific changes were made but it was interesting to read that. The author stated that recoil management was very good; seemed less "bouncy" than the G34, CZ SP01, XD-M and an M&P Pro they compared the H9 with. The authors did state that the prototype they shot fractured the locking lugs around the last few boxes of ammo they shot for the day.

Tons of info in that article so if you want to know more I recommend picking up that issue of Recoil.

That locking lug issue does sound worrying, hopefully it is related to rapid prototyping of parts using a different method than production, which is something they talked about in the Inrange interview.

On the other hand being less bouncy than a 25% heavier SP-01 sounds promising

[runcible]

Especially with the legalscape of the last several years, trying to invent something as an individual, protect it sufficiently that it can still be patented later, and then work through the required USPTO process solo or with a firm; can be quite a bit of a burden. Money and\or time vanish quickly, and many arrive just past the point of initial engagement to find that they've had some sort of disqualifying disclosure way back when.

Extra to add: then, to borrow the words of another, "...you've then fired a shot across the bow of the industry, once your patent is published;" which itself presumes that your application is successful. Impeccably patented as any this or that may be; if you have not the resources to defend it in court and with regularity, you have at best a vanity patent soon to hold little value beyond its identity.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Agreed. The thing that I found really weird was that even in Ian and Karl's 1 hour interview, they never broke down the gun. Especially given Ian's curiosity, I have to imagine that Hudson said "no". Since they said that all this was patented, I can only assume that they didn't do it because it's quite complex inside. So if I were to guess, I'd say that "small parts breakage" is this gun's biggest obstacle right now.

That is probably my biggest worry on the pistol right now. If I was showing off a pistol I designed to someone who I know is nerdy about firearms design, I would be rushing to tear it down into its smallest parts and show how everything fits together. They also didn't want to field strip the pistol during another shot show interview I saw, something about a small spring falling out. On the other hand, I can think of two good reasons they would not want to break the gun down.

1. Maintain secrecy about the design for as long as possible to deter competitors, especially if it takes them a few more months to get the product to market than they anticipate.

2. They are working on improving the field strip procedure for the production model.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

If I really wanted to make money I'd just make gadgets (or anything, really) with Punisher logos on them.

Come to think of it, no one has made a slide cover plate knife attachment yet. Maybe that's what I need to work on next.

13458

You never know....

[YVK]

TOM

you need to get in contact with Hudson MFG asap if not done already.

if the H9 design allows for use of a gadget or gadget like device (that would be covered by your patent/s), this is your best present and foreseeable future chance to get the gadget integrated into a new production, from the factory gun (instead of being a niche aftermarket product).

H9 has options for thumb safeties. Thumb safeties have been used with a great success for the same purpose that the Gadget exists for. Why even bother to design a niche accessory for a niche gun that already has an OEM feature that ably aids in safe holstering?

[fishing]

H9 has options for thumb safeties. Thumb safeties have been used with a great success for the same purpose that the Gadget exists for. Why even bother to design a niche accessory for a niche gun that already has an OEM feature that ably aids in safe holstering?

one reason i can think of real quick is that i don't want to have to train myself to be competent with operating said thumb safety.
I've never carried a gun with a thumb safety. maybe i'm missing out but having to gain that skill is a barrier for me.

[fishing]

I rarely say this, but can we all stay on topic? The H9 is a neat gun and this thread doesn't deserve to be cluttered up with all this other stuff.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d5/d575ebc4d2cac326d6d818bbb96a91e5658706b6ab901c217f 7eeaf2cf5fa603.jpg

i'm guilty.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I rarely say this, but can we all stay on topic? The H9 is a neat gun and this thread doesn't deserve to be cluttered up with all this other stuff.


*ahem* *clears throat*

Yeah, so as I was saying....

Down the line I would love to see an aluminum frame. I would like it to take advantage of the chassis design and be something you can purchase directly from the company or a distributor without an FFL. Hopefully disassembly is simple enough that I can easily swap the steel frame on for IDPA and range time and go back to the aluminum frame for carry. If this were available for, say, under $300, it would really help the economics of the gun by needing to buy only one gun for both a carry and a competition piece.

After that I would like to see a 5" .357 SIG or 9x23 Win version, and a redesign of the frame to have a full length rail.

The gun is already the same size as my EDC (CZ P-07) so I don't have any desire for a subcompact

[pastaslinger]

I do not want them to fail but there are some things I dislike about the pistol:
-dust cover being so low
-capacity for the weight
-sight dovetail choice
-this talk about breaking lugs

I honestly don't care about getting a 1911 level trigger in a striker gun, Glocks with light tweaking or PPQ's are great enough to make it a non issue. I think the idea of a steel striker gun is more interesting and would even prefer a steel da/sa striker gun if the trigger was good.

[El Cid]

Has anyone photoshopped a weapon light onto one? I'm really curious to see the H9 with an X300U and an APL.

[Jay Cunningham]

I think I saw a pic of an X300A and it looked problematic.

[orionz06]

I think I saw a pic of an X300A and it looked problematic.

All the folks who don't carry with a WML and won't buy an H9 were rather upset over that.

[Jay Cunningham]

All the folks who don't carry with a WML and won't buy an H9 were rather upset over that.

Right! [emoji817]

[fishing]

Right! [emoji817]

Heard through the grapevine that Hudson is teaming with Surefire to have a voice activated WML developed in time for release of the pistol. This should alleviate the issue with controls on current WMLs.

The prototype mentioned by my source is activated by loudly yelling "Freeze Motherfucker"

[Verlyos]

p/BPsY-Y8jDFC
https://www.instagram.com/p/BPsY-Y8jDFC/?hl=en

With all the coverage out of SHOT looking pretty positive, I think I'll be getting one of these when it releases.

[Paladin]

Hey guys and gals I was able to have some communication with Cy Hudson about the locking lug issues and I am going to just copy his response:


And concerning the lugs
The issue was not due to rapid prototypes parts. It was simply a byproduct of creating a new barrel camming and lockup system. Had to learn some things through testing.

Our initial system had a longer barrel hood cam than the one we had people running rounds through at industry day.

That longer hood cam resulted in the energy being transferred downward and directly on to the cams. Our dynamic effects analysis post-break made it clear as day. A simple two week fix, with a shorter hood cam redirected the unlock forces into the flat portion of the chassis insert instead of directly on to the lugs. However, two weeks would not have allowed the folks at Recoil to feature the pistol for SHOT. So, we called them and told them exactly what was happening and said that they should be open about the issue - nothing for us to hide. Anyone who has created a mechanical device from the ground up knows there are lessons to learn during R&D.

I have every confidence they have got the issue resolved and I plan on running one through the 2000 round challenge as soon as I can get my hands on one. If anyone else has some more questions I will do my best to get them answered.
Rick

[Chef]

http://i.imgur.com/3B9PRdc.jpg



Also looks like it makes for incredibly unergonomic manipulation of most weapon light switches

Lights as currently designed.


Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[TGS]

Lights as currently designed.


Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

Are you implying that the WML industry is going to redesign interfaces on WMLs that suit 99% of guns out there so that they will instead suit the Hudson H9?

Because I really, honestly, don't see that happening. I don't consider this to be any clairvoyance on my part, but rather the issue self-evident.

[Chef]

Are you implying that the WML industry is going to redesign interfaces on WMLs that suit 99% of guns out there so that they will instead suit the Hudson H9?

Because I really, honestly, don't see that happening. I don't consider this to be any clairvoyance on my part, but rather the issue self-evident.

If this is released and remains a niche/esoteric pistol then no, companies will not design/redesign a switch for this pistol.

If it gains traction I could see switch designs shifted to accommodate this pistol.

ALTHOUGH, is it also possible that light activation could soon move to bluetooth or other wireless tech? I think it could and would enjoy seeing it happen. Wasnt there already a wireless activated product recently released?


ETA: Here it is, CT WML and Laser activated by grip wirelessly. Not a YUGE fan of TTAG site but...

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/01/foghorn/crimson-trace-debuts-wireless-linq-system-for-lights-and-lasers-on-rifles/

[Peally]

In my opinion compared to a button bluetooth is completely ass useless for turning a light on. About on par with a fingerprint scanner ;)

[JAD]

It's not Bluetooth, which would be super hackable. There are several other radio protocols that they could use that wouldn't use as much power and would be easier to encrypt. From the brief article I like it and it makes sense. It's not a frigging trigger, it's an accessory, and we're talking about a very established technology.

[vcdgrips]

BTT

Anyone have one, shot one, etc.?

thx

David Barnes
www.vcdgrips.com

[ca survivor]

Good pull. It made me think of the new Detonics (http://www.detonicsdefense.com) guns...

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56f1afc1044262c53cf48dc5/56fad7e701dbaecfb8354347/56fade225559863eeabc73b4/1459281471199/STX1.jpg?format=1500w

first time seen this gun, which is a good thing, it hurts my eyes. Was this actually for sale or was just a prototype?

[Bucky]

BTT

Anyone have one, shot one, etc.?

thx

David Barnes
www.vcdgrips.com

Interested as well. It's been quiet for some time.

[Zirk208]

I was searching out threads across the interwebz last night for updates on the Hudson. Lots of hype from the start of the year, but things seem to have simmered down. Some sites are still taking pre-orders.

[JSGlock34]

first time seen this gun, which is a good thing, it hurts my eyes. Was this actually for sale or was just a prototype?

I don't think it was ever for sale. Detonics and STI were supposed to partner on these...The Detonics website appears defunct though; no idea what STI is up to. This video from last year seems the most recent news for the pistol...obviously it wasn't the MHS winner...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ra5EAJBDoE

[RevolverRob]

I don't think it was ever for sale. Detonics and STI were supposed to partner on these...The Detonics website appears defunct though; no idea what STI is up to. This video from last year seems the most recent news for the pistol...obviously it wasn't the MHS winner...


Detonics produced a few (very few) MTXs (double-stack .45). The STX was submitted to MHS and I thought it was cute that Detonics somehow thought they would win the MHS contract...Apparently, they were banking on it, because they appear defunct.

STI is doing just fine by contrast. They have released a revised double-stack magazine recently which incorporates many of the "mods" that end users were doing to keep their guns running in competition. AND I admit - the Costa Carry Comp in 9mm - https://stiguns.com/guns/costa-carry-comp/ - Which features a non-reciprocating compensator with the front sight mounted to it...makes me all kinds of giddy and is probably the closest thing to a Hudson H9 that is out on the market.

[backtrail540]

I saw a few people post pictures of these on ig and saw a few on gunbroker. Anybody here get one or plan to? They intrigue me and I'll be looking forward to getting hands on with one if i find one locally.

[MSparks909]

I saw a few people post pictures of these on ig and saw a few on gunbroker. Anybody here get one or plan to? They intrigue me and I'll be looking forward to getting hands on with one if i find one locally.

I'd like to buy one "just cause" but I'm gonna wait another year or two for them to sort out any potential issues that always usually plague a brand new model release.

I saw Steve Fisher's FB Live video of him shooting the H9 last night; that thing shoots stupid flat. Wow.

Don't know how to embed FB videos but here it is:
https://www.facebook.com/spaceshuttle.doorgunner.7/videos/1469481686453406/

1469481686453406

[rayrevolver]

If I had lottery money I would buy that Detonics. Always wanted one... even a ugly, fat-bottomed, brown one apparently! Might as well get an AMT Hardballer and most of the pistols I wanted a kid would be covered.

I am hoping someone at my club gets a Hudson and lets me shoot it. While people can sometimes poo-poo low bore axis as a gimmick, I cut my teeth on a Steyr M9A1 that seems to shoot pretty darn flat. And I have to assume the L9A1 is even flatter.

[psalms144.1]

So, that's an incredibly flat shooting pistol in his hands - but his hands look like shovels - that pistol looks like a 22 in his hands. Do we have any video of humans shooting the H9?

[octagon]

So, that's an incredibly flat shooting pistol in his hands - but his hands look like shovels - that pistol looks like a 22 in his hands. Do we have any video of humans shooting the H9?

I just watched both Steve Fishers video and one by Jon Corriea with his H9. Jon had more visible muzzle lift and several stoppages when he was shooting and another shooter who was right handed. It could be a bad mag or lack of lube noted the 2 shooters as it was first shots without lube or change from out of the box condition. It is on FB I don't know how to link to it but you can find it at ASP FB page.

[t1tan]

I want to see what it does paired with a comp


^ that video
“... Sig Sauer, should run fine?!” LOL

[EVP]

Can the H9 be had with a safety?

If not, a short travel “1911 styled trigger” with no other safeties is not really my cup of tea. Seems companies keep going shorter and lighter.

[ReverendMeat]

Is that gun ejecting cases to the left or am I drunk

[Artemas2]

Can the H9 be had with a safety?

If not, a short travel “1911 styled trigger” with no other safeties is not really my cup of tea. Seems companies keep going shorter and lighter.

https://www.hudsonmfg.com/product/


The H9 comes standard with a trigger safety, but for 1911 purists or for those who just want an added measure of assurance we offer patent pending thumb safeties that can be equipped for left, right or ambidextrous shooters.

[JHC]

Can the H9 be had with a safety?

If not, a short travel “1911 styled trigger” with no other safeties is not really my cup of tea. Seems companies keep going shorter and lighter.

Those I personally know that have dry fired a display H9 were surprised I told them it's supposed to have a trigger like a 1911. These are shooters with a good bit of 1911 experience, albeit fairly nice ones. They were like "waaaat"? I look forward to seeing on of these someday.

[EVP]

Thanks Artemis and JHC,

I like what Hudson is doing and look forward to seeing these.

[Coal Train]

I had a chance to handle an H9 today. It felt very nice in the hand and you could get an extremely high grip. The trigger was good but the "upside down" hinge felt a bit strange. The reset was very short.

A cool piece.

[willie]

I've had my fingers crossed for its success but fear that the Hudson's high(relatively speaking)price and a super soft market will be marketing stumbling blocks. It's design will require an attached light to be very low below the barrel. The curious can read its patent information in google patents section. Months ago I spent very much time researching it and deduced that the guys in Georgetown, Texas, were associated in some way with the project. I hope that when H9's show up in gun shops, I can buy one or at least shoot someone else's specimen. Those with extra coin can buy one, put it up, and have a collector's item. At this point, requesting and receiving consecutive serial numbers or very low numbers is certainly possible.

[nwhpfan]

https://www.facebook.com/spaceshuttle.doorgunner.7/videos/1469481686453406/

1469481686453406

I really like Mandy Patinkin. He's awesome in Homeland and of course he's "that guy" in Princess Bride. One of those, oh, that's what happened to those guys.

I liked his review. Wished I would have seen it live. The gun has a some really neat features. There is little to no argument the 1911 has the greatest trigger out there. And Glock reliability is of course legendary. So the Hudson wanted to combine that. What a great idea!

The Hudson gets a somewhat similar reaction Glock got in the 80's. People are naturally skeptical. There are still people out there trying for new and better and if nobody did that, we'd still be throwing rocks at people. Can you imagine how long a COF would if you had to throw two rocks on paper and hit each piece of steel to fall for score :p?

I look forward to the pistol becoming more popular and more accessible.

[LittleLebowski]

I really like Mandy Patinkin. He's awesome in Homeland and of course he's "that guy" in Princess Bride. One of those, oh, that's what happened to those guys.

I liked his review. Wished I would have seen it live. The gun has a some really neat features. There is little to no argument the 1911 has the greatest trigger out there. And Glock reliability is of course legendary. So the Hudson wanted to combine that. What a great idea!

The Hudson gets a somewhat similar reaction Glock got in the 80's. People are naturally skeptical. There are still people out there trying for new and better and if nobody did that, we'd still be throwing rocks at people. Can you imagine how long a COF would if you had to throw two rocks on paper and hit each piece of steel to fall for score :p?

I look forward to the pistol becoming more popular and more accessible.
Steve f since nwhpfan put in the time to try and make people smile :)

[Trooper224]

An interesting design, but I have a feeling it's the new Bren Ten.

[gskip]

I wanna try it.

[RevolverRob]

I had a chance to handle an H9 today. It felt very nice in the hand and you could get an extremely high grip. The trigger was good but the "upside down" hinge felt a bit strange. The reset was very short.

A cool piece.

Was that in a shop or where?

As near as I can tell there aren't really an H9s on the ground yet. I keep checking, because the Hudson is one of the few guns that has my interest to any level currently.

[TCFD273]

Was that in a shop or where?

As near as I can tell there aren't really an H9s on the ground yet. I keep checking, because the Hudson is one of the few guns that has my interest to any level currently.

A friend of mine has one. Pretty sweet shooter


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Manbearspider]

I shot an H9 last year at SHOT and at the time, I remember (/wrote down) that it felt on par with other full steel 1911 platforms that I'd shot around that then in regards to a soft, flat shooting gun. The trigger was not on the same level as the specific 1911s I had been shooting around then, but they were some of the higher grade Wilson Combats, so that's in no way a negative; just an observation.

If I can find a way to get my hands on one locally, I'm definitely going to track it down and check it out again to make sure my impressions were correct as I find it a legitimately interesting piece.

Right now I don't think its quite a 'game changer', but it definitely has the potential to contend with CZ in being a favorite hipster gun.

[45dotACP]

Was that in a shop or where?

As near as I can tell there aren't really an H9s on the ground yet. I keep checking, because the Hudson is one of the few guns that has my interest to any level currently.Shop local to me (bit of a drive for you tho) had one in stock and sold it almost immediately.

I haz a sad.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

[Qaz98]

Got the email notice that grabagun.com had it in stock. They had two when I logged in. I snagged one and the other is gone. I definitely have some reservations about getting the first generation, but what the heck.

I think defense outdoors has done left online when I just checked. Better than paying over MSRP on gunbroker. I'm sure more will pop up over the next few weeks.

Edit: just checked and grabagun has 2 more in stock. Maybe they're just periodically releasing it online. Anyways, much more reasonable price than gunbroker, if anyone is interested.

[Qaz98]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFuC7RKnb7A&t=1s

Latest range update from TTAG.

[Balisong]

This is a fascinating gun. I'm not an early adopter sort, but I'll be following this development closely...

[azerious]

Why does it extract to the left/9:00 ?!?!?!?

[octagon]

Why does it extract to the left/9:00 ?!?!?!?

That is just the camera reversing the image. It ejects to the right like most semi autos.

[MSparks909]

That is just the camera reversing the image. It ejects to the right like most semi autos.

A couple of cases clearly looked to eject to the left of the shooter. Most ejected right, but a few seemed to eject left

[octagon]

Which video? I didn't notice it.

I went back and watched the TTAG video more closely and at .25 speed. It looks like the slide is moving forward and hitting an ejected case that is spinning and knocking the case to the left of the shooter. 4min 08 was the easiest for me to see. It definitely random as most eject normally to the right. Something to look at.

[Peally]

TTAG is so riddled with stupidity I wouldn't even trust solid video evidence of a blue sky from them ;)

[Qaz98]

TTAG is so riddled with stupidity I wouldn't even trust solid video evidence of a blue sky from them ;)I will not post the ttag torture test then. Haha. There is another review, where he had some issues with the H9. Seems like QC issues.

https://youtu.be/15kolAVD3gk


Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[ExMachina]

There is another review, where he had some issues with the H9. Seems like QC issues.

https://youtu.be/15kolAVD3gk



QC issues aside, all the reviews I've seen hint (if not outright show) that the H9 is not a very accurate gun. So then what is the point of going to the trouble to engineer in a "1911-type" straight pull trigger if the gun itself is not capable of delivering decent accuracy? It seems like the H9 started off with good intentions but realized along the way that they could not deliver on all fronts.

While the H9 still seems like a cool gun, I'm not convinced that it is any "flatter shooting" than any other 2+ pound 9mm pistol.

[octagon]

QC issues aside, all the reviews I've seen hint (if not outright show) that the H9 is not a very accurate gun. So then what is the point of going to the trouble to engineer in a "1911-type" straight pull trigger if the gun itself is not capable of delivering decent accuracy? It seems like the H9 started off with good intentions but realized along the way that they could not deliver on all fronts.

While the H9 still seems like a cool gun, I'm not convinced that it is any "flatter shooting" than any other 2+ pound 9mm pistol.

I think people want this gun to succeed so like of the gun,concept or people behind it may influence the attitude towards it's reality more so than a regular gun from an established maker. In the end each person makes the choice for themselves. For me I have to consider what this gun does that many cheaper guns do not, or don't do as well. For $1100 dollars I don't see it being more accurate,lower recoil or muzzle rise,more reliable,nicer to carry or in any way better by much than good guns that cost half to a quarter the price.

Until someone compares the gun with other guns in a slow motion graphic using the same ammo and same shooter(s) any comparison of muzzle rise/recoil will be based on subjective feel so hard to say how good or bad it is. I hope it succeeds and improves any weak areas. Options are always good even if I don't choose them or not initially.

[walker2713]

I've handled one belonging to a friend, and was impressed with fit and finish, grip, sights, etc.....had no plans to buy one.

Saw this video this morning....

https://youtu.be/Eo127UZsuH8

[Nephrology]

Wait... people are enthusiastic about these guns now??

[rauchman]

Was at the range on Thurs and took a couple of friends shooting. Was surprised to see the H9 in a display case. Asked to hold it and dry fire a couple of pulls.

It reminded me a lot of looking at a more squared HK P7 sight profile. Sits very low in the hand. The trigger was really nice. It had a nice roll to it, with what felt like zero take up (aside from the pulling in of the trigger safety), a short throw and no "wall" to push through. Forgot to check for reset. Granted, this is only a window shopping impression, but I'm very curious about this pistol. While the trigger is one of the nicest striker fired triggers I've tried (similar to how an HK P7 breaks), I would want some kind of manual safety with this gun. In dinking around on the Hudson website, they mention "The H9 comes standard with a trigger safety, but for 1911 purists or for those who just want an added measure of assurance we offer patent pending thumb safeties that can be equipped for left, right or ambidextrous shooters."

The range I was at has an H9 to rent. Will be back next weekend to give it a whirl. While I'm very intrigued by the pistol, I think it's a connoisseur's pistol. It's expensive, heavier and practically, doesn't really do anything better than a lot of currently offered, and vetted, polymer options. Having said that, I have an itch to explore this thing more. It marries a lot of design strengths from different pistols in a unique way, and also has it's own unique designs. Again, very curious to see some reviews and some accuracy testing.

[LorenzoS]

I don't pay much attention to YouTube gun videos but I found this Forgotten Weapons interview with Cy Hudson interesting. They review the development of the gun from concept, prototypes and production.

The part that struck me was how little Hudson knew about firearms engineering and manufacturing when he started. I really admire the guy's persistence and ingenuity and hope he succeeds. However, it also shows why the pistol is still not quite ready for prime time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh7IN-AZaxA

[Bigghoss]

So this is a thing someone did.

https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/26904646_2092805477413058_5879588842199112144_n.jp g?oh=e98e77669622338b206720a394b6f1ed&oe=5AF9EE5A


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmhkUpugwlU

[Peally]

Is the H9 the miracle pistol folks thought it'd be yet? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Bigghoss]

Is the H9 the miracle pistol folks thought it'd be yet? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Based on what I'm reading, it's just another gun that you need to already have a decent skill level to get any benefit from. So the internet will think it is a miracle gun and buy them instead of more ammo.

[RevolverRob]

I’d still like to handle/try one. It’s unlikely I’ll find one locally and I’m currently busy buying guns for work stuff, so the H9 will have to wait.

I finally got my mitts wrapped around one right before X-Mas. The gun felt nice, in terms of weight distribution, controls, size, sight picture was moderate. Trigger was nothing to write home about, particularly when compared directly to an $1100 Colt Rail gun. The lack of a thumb safety on the model I handled didn't give me the warm and fuzzies, either.

That all said - build quality was excellent. Finish was great. Less tool marks and tigher tolerances than the aforementioned Colt. I wonder if Hudson can continue to provide that level of quality at the price point? I can't imagine they are getting rich here...

If I'd had the 1100 bones the shop wanted and it had a thumb safety, I would have bought it. As it is, I may order one.

[Qaz98]

http://www.recoilweb.com/hudson-h9a-revealed-133407.html

For Shot Show, and aluminum version, so more lightweight.

I'll be honest, I haven't shot it too much. I bought it knowing that it would be more of a novelty than an EDC type weapon.

I'd seriously entertain a compact or subcompact version, but I bet that is years away.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[RevolverRob]

http://www.recoilweb.com/hudson-h9a-revealed-133407.html

For Shot Show, and aluminum version, so more lightweight.

I'll be honest, I haven't shot it too much. I bought it knowing that it would be more of a novelty than an EDC type weapon.

I'd seriously entertain a compact or subcompact version, but I bet that is years away.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Aluminum would be nice, but I'd really prefer parts and the steel gun to actually be more available. Spare mags are hens teeth, no one has the thumb safety kit in stock, no word on when the threaded barrels will come out...It'd just be kind of nice to get that settled in advance of new models...but I get that people want new models.

[MSparks909]

I’m sure this is buried somewhere in the previous 26 pages so forgive my laziness but...what kind of groups are people seeing out of these @ 25Y? Anyone able to string together a benched/bagged ~2” group? I’ve also read that these guns shoot low for a lot of people. I’m assuming a taller rear sight fixes the problem? I want one of these but I have no good use for it. Would be just for fun hence it’s quite low on the priority list.

[RevolverRob]

I’m sure this is buried somewhere in the previous 26 pages so forgive my laziness but...what kind of groups are people seeing out of these @ 25Y? Anyone able to string together a benched/bagged ~2” group? I’ve also read that these guns shoot low for a lot of people. I’m assuming a taller rear sight fixes the problem? I want one of these but I have no good use for it. Would be just for fun hence it’s quite low on the priority list.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Py4JDOxm_mE

At 25-yards it looks like garbage. Looks like the sights are a consistent complaint and Trijicon HDs are a consistent complaint in terms of 25-yards.

The magazines look like a weak spot concern too. I'm really wanting one of these, but it looks like I need to give it another 12-months before I buy in.

And this here - Again complaints about the HD front with U-Notch rear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rolq6F7Jcjo

[TicTacticalTimmy]

I'm pretty impressed they are coming out with an aluminum frame less than a year after launch.

I've been reading all the reviews I can find and overall I'd say they are doing incredibly good for a brand new company with a brand new and authentically unique product.
Also happy to see the price dropping by $200 for that model. With an MSRP of $950 street price should be about $850, which is about $200 above a CZ P-01, and actually less than a CZ with fully upgraded trigger parts, which the 1911-style trigger hopefully would match in its stock feel.

Personally I will be waiting until they have manual safeties and tweak the design to make changing out the recoil spring easier, but again compare what you are seeing from Hudson with the first generation of Caracal, Diamondback, Kel-Tec, Stryke, or any other new handgun manufacturer and I for one am impressed.

With Inrange now having a red dot on their model I am hoping to see some serious accuracy testing. Some other reviewers complained about poor accuracy but that could be due to the giant front dot and U notch rear.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRXTDoD-r0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPRXTDoD-r0

Aluminum frame, threaded barrel, and lower price coming this year

[HopetonBrown]

SHOT 2017 metal frame and $1150 msrp
SHOT 2018 aluminum frame and $950 msrp
SHOT 2019 polymer frame and $750 msrp?

[RevolverRob]

SHOT 2017 metal frame and $1150 msrp
SHOT 2018 aluminum frame and $950 msrp
SHOT 2019 polymer frame and $750 msrp?

I'd personally prefer SHOT 2019 to be Compact Aluminum frame MSRP $850.

As it is, I'm beginning to see a future for myself in this platform. All steel for practice, aluminum for carry...

[MSparks909]

I'd personally prefer SHOT 2019 to be Compact Aluminum frame MSRP $850.

As it is, I'm beginning to see a future for myself in this platform. All steel for practice, aluminum for carry...

I think you’re the first person I’ve seen that is interested in these as more than a novelty

[Inkwell 41]

I think you’re the first person I’ve seen that is interested in these as more than a novelty

He'll have to change his screen name to "Hudson Harv" if he goes that route.

[RevolverRob]

I think you’re the first person I’ve seen that is interested in these as more than a novelty

I've actually been interested since the first prototypes came around. Partly because I have an affinity for all steel 9mm handguns and partly because 1911 grip angle.

After getting hands on with one, I can see it being a usable platform for CC -with the thumb safety installed-. Since it looks increasingly like I'll go back to 1911s (see this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29524-Pistol-squirming-twisting-in-hand-during-trigger-press-(P30-LEM)) thread for my recent problems with the P30 that may (or may not) be cured) I'm very interested in double-stack platforms with 1911-driven ergos.

The only thing remotely close to the H9 existing would be a 2011 STI. I actually handled a 2011 and the H9 side-by-side and the H9 is actually a tiny bit more trim, because it isn't made around the .45 ACP cartridge like a 9mm 2011 is. Not too mention the buy in on a reliable STI is about $2k and that's ASSuming you get magazines that work properly. The H9 does appear to have some magazine issues that need to be worked out and the accuracy concerns are another can of worms.

But there is a lot to like about the H9. 1911 ergonomics, steel frame, decent trigger, thumb safety, 15+1 mags (more bullets isn't a point of concern for me), M&P sight cuts make it easy to get sights standardized across platforms. The biggest downsides are the "new maker", "novelty", and rail location. So far Hudson seems to be acquitting itself pretty well. And frankly - it is my expectation that Hudson Mfg as currently exists isn't long for this world, but the H9 is. A smart company will buy the design, rebrand it, and get moving (e.g., Remington buying Rohrbaugh, or Bond Arms buying Boberg)...here's looking at you COLT...

[M2CattleCo]

A low bore axis shooting tool for the kale eating demographic.

I tried Kale this past summer. I probably would have liked it if I was a goat!

[olstyn]

I think you’re the first person I’ve seen that is interested in these as more than a novelty

I kind of wish I had the budget to be interested in these as more than a novelty. As it is, I look forward to RevolverRob's pending adventure with them.

[gskip]

I just want them to make a sliiiiightly small aluminum framed model with a thumb safety and I would be all over it for CCW.

[Bigghoss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu719Thrsk4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmhkUpugwlU&t=1s


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuUqvN_SBCc

[tcba_joe]

Seems that if they hadn't gone with the oddball recoil assembly, which seems kinda gimmicky, this pistol would be talked about in a more favorable light.

[TicTacticalTimmy]

Seems that if they hadn't gone with the oddball recoil assembly, which seems kinda gimmicky, this pistol would be talked about in a more favorable light.

Personally the recoil assembly is one of the big draws to this gun for me. Very interested to see how split times with the new Aluminum version compare to a similar weight Glock 17.

I only wish they used a normal 1911 style trigger and had thumb safeties as standard. However, I'm not going to complain that a company I have no affiliation with made something that's not exactly what I want, since it seems like it's pretty damn close.

[DRJ]

I got to handle one today and it was nice. Fit and finish we’re great and the trigger was very good and it felt great in my hand. The reset was unbelievable,probably the best I have ever felt. But this has to be ugliest pistol I have ever seen at least to me. It actually makes my Glocks look good but I would like to shoot one.

[RevolverRob]

Seems that if they hadn't gone with the oddball recoil assembly, which seems kinda gimmicky, this pistol would be talked about in a more favorable light.

Is the H9 being talked about negatively? Honest question. And is the recoil assembly being viewed as a negative?

My reading is that most folks are liking it or at worst finding it "meh". The top complaints I have seen are:

1) Accuracy concerns. Which could be related to mechanics, but appear to be mostly related to sight selection (U-notch rear, Trijicon HD front).
2) Some potential feeding issues, associated with weak magazine springs and/or follower drag.
3) Location of the rail (though no one seems to have tried running different lights to see how it works)
4) Slow response from Hudson CS regarding issues 1 and 2. Though, Cy Hudson in the Youtube Video above acknowledged this concern and mentioned that Hudson has tripled in size in 6-months. Thus, I'm willing to say, "growing pains, but fix it."
5) It's ugly.

[willie]

The H9 intrigued me when it was announced quite some time ago. I spent many hours researching its backers and designers and who probably would have a big hand in its manufacture and so on. Digging these facts out required much time and skill. Then I realized that no good would result from my reporting a bunch of stuff that was none of my business so I left it alone. I must say that there was nothing scandalous or unsavory. The curious can go to Google patents and read about the design. It's been a long time since my study, but I remember that a claim is made on the pistol's appearance. Anyway I lost interest.

[RevolverRob]

Here's a link to the patents owned by Billie Cyril "Cy" Hudson III - https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Billie+Cyril+Hudson%2c+III

1) Appearance
2) Inner functions of semi-auto pistol
3) Barrel of semi-auto pistol
4) Sear of semi-auto pistol

In this day in age of rip-offs of everything - I don't blame anyone for patenting "appearance" of their product. That's a solid business plan right there.

[BillSWPA]

Here's a link to the patents owned by Billie Cyril "Cy" Hudson III - https://patents.google.com/?inventor=Billie+Cyril+Hudson%2c+III

1) Appearance
2) Inner functions of semi-auto pistol
3) Barrel of semi-auto pistol
4) Sear of semi-auto pistol

In this day in age of rip-offs of everything - I don't blame anyone for patenting "appearance" of their product. That's a solid business plan right there.

By getting a design patent on the appearance, they are essentially protecting what they hope will become their trade dress, but before it becomes known and associated by consumers with them.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ExMachina]

Is the H9 being talked about negatively? Honest question. And is the recoil assembly being viewed as a negative?

My reading is that most folks are liking it or at worst finding it "meh". The top complaints I have seen are:

1) Accuracy concerns. Which could be related to mechanics, but appear to be mostly related to sight selection (U-notch rear, Trijicon HD front).
2) Some potential feeding issues, associated with weak magazine springs and/or follower drag.
3) Location of the rail (though no one seems to have tried running different lights to see how it works)
4) Slow response from Hudson CS regarding issues 1 and 2. Though, Cy Hudson in the Youtube Video above acknowledged this concern and mentioned that Hudson has tripled in size in 6-months. Thus, I'm willing to say, "growing pains, but fix it."
5) It's ugly.

Actually, top top complaint I've seen seems to always go to the price--$1100 for a gun that relies on proprietary parts from a tiny start-up is a risky proposition for many.

[ExMachina]

Personally the recoil assembly is one of the big draws to this gun for me. Very interested to see how split times with the new Aluminum version compare to a similar weight Glock 17.


Aluminum frame performance will definitly boost their credability when it comes to the gains offered by the H9 design. Up until now, Hudson's claim that their 34+ oz 9mm shoots "flat" seems utterly unremarkable; however, translate that to a 26 oz gun and now they've got something to talk about.

[GunRacer]

I don't know, man. While the Hudson is an interesting design, it's no 2011. The example I played with didn't impress me-- the trigger was garbage, and isn't that the main selling point? Ergos were pretty good, but nothing groundbreaking. I would have to try one that's been worked over before making a final determination. But I will say this: At $1400 plus the cost of a trigger job, I'm about $500 away from a decent 2011 with proven reliability, accuracy, and shootabilty. STI factory magazines are functional out of the box now, btw, since the 2017 revision.


I've actually been interested since the first prototypes came around. Partly because I have an affinity for all steel 9mm handguns and partly because 1911 grip angle.

After getting hands on with one, I can see it being a usable platform for CC -with the thumb safety installed-. Since it looks increasingly like I'll go back to 1911s (see this (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?29524-Pistol-squirming-twisting-in-hand-during-trigger-press-(P30-LEM)) thread for my recent problems with the P30 that may (or may not) be cured) I'm very interested in double-stack platforms with 1911-driven ergos.

The only thing remotely close to the H9 existing would be a 2011 STI. I actually handled a 2011 and the H9 side-by-side and the H9 is actually a tiny bit more trim, because it isn't made around the .45 ACP cartridge like a 9mm 2011 is. Not too mention the buy in on a reliable STI is about $2k and that's ASSuming you get magazines that work properly. The H9 does appear to have some magazine issues that need to be worked out and the accuracy concerns are another can of worms.

But there is a lot to like about the H9. 1911 ergonomics, steel frame, decent trigger, thumb safety, 15+1 mags (more bullets isn't a point of concern for me), M&P sight cuts make it easy to get sights standardized across platforms. The biggest downsides are the "new maker", "novelty", and rail location. So far Hudson seems to be acquitting itself pretty well. And frankly - it is my expectation that Hudson Mfg as currently exists isn't long for this world, but the H9 is. A smart company will buy the design, rebrand it, and get moving (e.g., Remington buying Rohrbaugh, or Bond Arms buying Boberg)...here's looking at you COLT...