Calling all Lawn Guylanders (LI, NY)...

[BaiHu]

I have a buddy who wants a gun in Long Island, NY. That's problem #1. Problem #2 is he's honest enough to know he won't practice much. He has a wife and 3 kids, so I want to guide him right so he doesn't have over penetration issues, etc.

I'm leaning towards a long gun for him, but I'm willing to hear those in the know about NY gun politics, etc.

TIA PF hive mind.

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[nycnoob]

Why not a shotgun and a class from Chris Fry? http://www.mdtstraining.com/

the 870 and the 1301 are particularly popular.

I know all about the politics of NYC but I do not think it is really that different from NJ
some of the details are different, but the main issues are about the same.

[nycnoob]

or what about the Claude Werner solution?

Go for a Ruger 10/22 (with five round mags, hopefully Trump can fix this limitation) and a red dot sight.

[BaiHu]

or what about the Claude Werner solution?

Go for a Ruger 10/22 (with five round mags, hopefully Trump can fix this limitation) and a red dot sight.
These are both excellent points and things I've considered, but didn't want to commit as I don't know NY law. NJ is much easier, oddly. I can get any pistol with 15 Rd limit, I can get nearly any long arm with 16" barrel length and 15 Rd limit, but NY has a lot more "hate crime" combinations like pistol grip or detachable magazine issues.

Thanks and keep them coming.

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[nycnoob]

The main issues are:
5 rnd limit for long guns / 10 rounds for pistols (so perhaps a 22lr pistol?)
no long guns with muzzle devices (most tactical guns come configured with one)
no long guns with pistol grips (again they are common)
no long guns with adjustable / foldable stock

one other solution would be a bolt gun, perhaps a Tikka T3x in 223
I find them fun, but it might take more practice than your friend desires.

[nycnoob]

Hey! Dagga Boy is late to this thread, so I will say it for him:


how about a revolver? for people who do not practice, the administration
issues are simple and for restrictive states they are an almost "unrestricted"
weapon category.

[BaiHu]

The main issues are:
5 rnd limit for long guns / 10 rounds for pistols (so perhaps a 22lr pistol?)
no long guns with muzzle devices (most tactical guns come configured with one)
no long guns with pistol grips (again they are common)
no long guns with adjustable / foldable stock

one other solution would be a bolt gun, perhaps a Tikka T3x in 223
I find them fun, but it might take more practice than your friend desires.
Aren't lever actions good to go with higher round limits? What about a Ruger mini in 223?

I was considering that, too, but I think any pistol needs 2-3 times (WAG) more practice than a long arm.

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[nycnoob]

Everytime I get interested in lever actions I keep hearing that they are not reliable for defensive situations
(Dagga seems to dissagree but he is in the minority) but the 5 rnd magazine limit applies to fixed magazines
as well so that is always a problem. I really wanted a Henry 22lr lever or pump rifle but could not see how
to make that realistic in NYC. NYPD keeps checking with me about my Hawk Pump Shotgun (870 clone
from China) to be sure the magazine only holds five.

Again, I never hear anything good about the Ruger Mini X line.
So I stick with the guns I see discussed in this forum.

[LittleLebowski]

I wouldn't feel unarmed with a lever gun in a rifle caliber. Not at all.

[Kyle Reese]

Don't standard NYS laws apply for firearms on LI? I think some of the limits being discussed here are only applicable in NYC. I'd suggest a Beretta 1301 Tactical and not look back.

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[Malamute]

Everytime I get interested in lever actions I keep hearing that they are not reliable for defensive situations
(Dagga seems to dissagree but he is in the minority) but the 5 rnd magazine limit applies to fixed magazines
as well so that is always a problem. I really wanted a Henry 22lr lever or pump rifle but could not see how
to make that realistic in NYC. NYPD keeps checking with me about my Hawk Pump Shotgun (870 clone
from China) to be sure the magazine only holds five.

Again, I never hear anything good about the Ruger Mini X line.
So I stick with the guns I see discussed in this forum.

I haven't heard of this. Ive been using them since the early-mid 70s pretty regularly with very little problem (more Marlin problem than Winchester type).

5 rds for a fixed mag manually operated rifle? Good grief.

For basically in-house use Id think a 357 cal lever action carbine (Winchester 92 type or Marlin 1894 type) with light loads or 38 soft or hollowpoints. I don't know if blocked mags are acceptable, it wouldn't be hard to do with a lever.

[Shellback]

Why not a shotgun and a class from Chris Fry? http://www.mdtstraining.com/

the 870 and the 1301 are particularly popular.

I know all about the politics of NYC but I do not think it is really that different from NJ
some of the details are different, but the main issues are about the same.

I highly recommend taking this advice. Chris has training classes on Long Island all the time and puts on one hell of a great shotgun class.

[nycnoob]

I think some of the limits being discussed here are only applicable in NYC.

Certainly possible, I am easily confused. This may help:
"Guide toThe New York Safe ActforMembers of the Division of State Police"
http://www.nypdcea.org/pdfs/nysp_safe_act_field_guide.pdf

[NEPAKevin]

... he won't practice much.

Hammerless coach gun?

[nycnoob]

5 rds for a fixed mag manually operated rifle? Good grief.


I brought my Tikka bolt rifle to the Berretta store for a small repair.
They had never seen the OEM 5 rnd magazines before (it comes with 3 rnd mags)
they refused to help me till they verified that the magazines only held five rounds
because "If they were more than five that would be illegal".

[PNWTO]

I'd say a 590A1 and a class. I feel the basics of shotgun handling can be learned and retained fairly well.

[Shellback]

5/27/17 on Long Island. http://www.mdtstraining.com/training/schedule/practical-shotgun-skills-1-18/

[David S.]

I haven't heard of this. Ive been using them since the early-mid 70s pretty regularly with very little problem (more Marlin problem than Winchester type).

I recall some discussion about the mag tube in particular being unable to handle much abuse. It wouldn't take much of a dent in the tube to impede feeding.


5 rds for a fixed mag manually operated rifle? Good grief.

For basically in-house use Id think a 357 cal lever action carbine (Winchester 92 type or Marlin 1894 type) with light loads or 38 soft or hollowpoints. I don't know if blocked mags are acceptable, it wouldn't be hard to do with a lever.

I was thinking along the same lines. 357mag or 44mag lever gun topped with a Aimpoint Micro or similar and a WML (is that a thing?). Simple, capable gun with light enough recoil that anybody could shoot it. Not my first choice for a dedicated user or someone in a free state but as LL said, certainly not unarmed. Maybe even pair that with a matching revolver?

[David S.]

Chris Fry immediately came to my mind too.

OTOH, Dagga Boy has specifically and repeatedly said that shotguns are a poor choice for the non-dedicated user. I agree with his assessment.

[Shellback]

Chris Fry immediately came to my mind too.

OTOH, Dagga Boy has specifically and repeatedly said that shotguns are a poor choice for the non-dedicated user. I agree with his assessment.

I disagree. Running a 1301 is less work than a lever gun.

[David S.]

I disagree. Running a 1301 is less work than a lever gun.

I guess that depends on how recoil sensitive the guy is.

Over penetration (presumably speaking of walls) remains a problem either way.

[hufnagel]

I think my Henry Big Boy carbine chambered in .357 will certainly do a number on some dindu nuffins intent on some socialist wealth redistribution.

They also just came out with lever guns chambered in 5.56 and .308.

[Hambo]

Problem #2 is he's honest enough to know he won't practice much.

.38 revolver time, loaded and kept in a lock box. It's about as fuck up proof as you can get.

[Kyle Reese]

.38 revolver time, loaded and kept in a lock box. It's about as fuck up proof as you can get.

Much easier & less time consuming to lawfully procure a long gun in NYS than a handgun.

[idahojess]

Here are some good threads --

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19699-NY-Long-gun-choice

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19866-Are-Shotguns-Really-Old-and-Busted

Any chance you could take him shooting to see what he likes? Best to get something that he'd at least want to shoot occasionally. Also, whatever he gets he should get a safe, too, just because (and they may be legally required there anyway -- I don't know). Pistol safes are easier to deal with than long gun safes.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages.

[BaiHu]

Here are some good threads --

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19699-NY-Long-gun-choice

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?19866-Are-Shotguns-Really-Old-and-Busted

Any chance you could take him shooting to see what he likes? Best to get something that he'd at least want to shoot occasionally. Also, whatever he gets he should get a safe, too, just because (and they may be legally required there anyway -- I don't know). Pistol safes are easier to deal with than long gun safes.

Everything has it's advantages and disadvantages.
Thanks for those links and agree about the safe and well be taking him shooting.

I have to say that I'm leaning towards lever action more and more with 38 soft or maybe a 223 variant. Can anyone give me some models they like, know of or own?

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[HCM]

.38 revolver time, loaded and kept in a lock box. It's about as fuck up proof as you can get.

I would STRONGLY recommend an unrestricted long gun like a shotgun, mini 14, 10/22 or lever gun. Outside NYC you can buy these with a drivers license and a nics check - nothing else is require to keep them in your home or shoot them at a range.

The problem with a revolver is it is NEW YORK.

Rant mode on:

In NJ buying a handgun to keep at home and take to the range is a pain in the butt requiring a FOID card and purchase permit taking from a few days to a few months to obtain.

NY state (not just NYC) is worse. To purchase, possess or even legally touch a handgun Baihu's friend must obtain a NY State pistol license.

For starters NYC does not recognize pistol licenses from elsewhere in the state but we won't even go into NYC issues.

There are two types: premises and carry.

A NY premise permit lets you buy a handgun and keep it at the premises listed on the license, normally your home or business, one or the other. You cannot take it to the range or anywhere else. The only exception is to take it to alicense gunsmith for repair with prior written permission from the police. Unless things have changed these were mostly a NYC thing. It is literally a license for a ballistic lucky rabbits foot.

NY carry permits are issued county by county usually by the Sheriffs office or County Police Department. It allows concealed carry but can be restricted by the issuing official.

In upstate NY this is usually a six month process resulting in a full / unrestricted carry permit good for life until revoked.

In "down state" - the northern suburbs of NYC and particularly Long Island they normally require an extensive background investigation equal to that conducted on police applicants including fingerprints and photos. This normally takes six months to a year and includes interviews with anyone you reside with sometimes even neighbors, employers, etc.

In fact if you are married or a young adult living with parents the police will want your cohabitant family member to sign a form saying they are aware you are applying for a license to buy a handgun and they have no objections. If they won't sign - no handgun for you.

You will normally get a "carry" license restricted to target shooting and hunting. This lets you carry your handgun loaded and concealed to and from the range or hunting grounds only. Armed security can only carry while working or to and from work.

Some downstaters will obtain "business carry" licenses. They normally must show bank statements documenting at least six months of cash deposits over a certain dollar amount - it used to be $3000 per week. Once again they can only carry during business hours or to and from.

Until you are an LEO or have a pistol license you cannot legally touch a handgun. You cannot legally handle one in a store or rent one at a range. If a licensee or LEO lets you handle or shoot their handgun, even in their presence you are both violating the law.

Once you get your license, you can now buy a gun but you can't pick it up yet. You must take the details (make, model, serial number to the police and obtain a purchase permit good for ten days. This lets you take possession of your handgun so you can bring it back to the police have the details recorded and listed on your license.

Any trouble in your life, the first thing they will do is suspend your pistol license " pending investigation" and make you surrender your handguns.

Down state your license must be renewed every few years - if you don't apply for renewal and pay the fees the come take your guns.

Oh and by the way, Fuck New York State.

It is literally quicker and easier to buy NFA items than to obtain a NY state pilstol license in Long Island, NY.

[Arbninftry]

I would STRONGLY recommend an unrestricted long gun like a shotgun, mini 14, 10/22 or lever gun. Outside NYC you can buy these with a drivers license and a nics check - nothing else is require to keep them in your home or shoot them at a range.

The problem with a revolver is it is NEW YORK.

Rant mode on:

In NJ buying a handgun to keep at home and take to the range is a pain in the butt requiring a FOID card and purchase permit taking from a few days to a few months to obtain.

NY state (not just NYC) is worse. To purchase, possess or even legally touch a handgun Baihu's friend must obtain a NY State pistol license.

For starters NYC does not recognize pistol licenses from elsewhere in the state but we won't even go into NYC issues.

There are two types: premises and carry.

A NY premise permit lets you buy a handgun and keep it at the premises listed on the license, normally your home or business, one or the other. You cannot take it to the range or anywhere else. The only exception is to take it to alicense gunsmith for repair with prior written permission from the police. Unless things have changed these were mostly a NYC thing. It is literally a license for a ballistic lucky rabbits foot.

NY carry permits are issued county by county usually by the Sheriffs office or County Police Department. It allows concealed carry but can be restricted by the issuing official.

In upstate NY this is usually a six month process resulting in a full / unrestricted carry permit good for life until revoked.

In "down state" - the northern suburbs of NYC and particularly Long Island they normally require an extensive background investigation equal to that conducted on police applicants including fingerprints and photos. This normally takes six months to a year and includes interviews with anyone you reside with sometimes even neighbors, employers, etc.

In fact if you are married or a young adult living with parents the police will want your cohabitant family member to sign a form saying they are aware you are applying for a license to buy a handgun and they have no objections. If they won't sign - no handgun for you.

You will normally get a "carry" license restricted to target shooting and hunting. This lets you carry your handgun loaded and concealed to and from the range or hunting grounds only. Armed security can only carry while working or to and from work.

Some downstaters will obtain "business carry" licenses. They normally must show bank statements documenting at least six months of cash deposits over a certain dollar amount - it used to be $3000 per week. Once again they can only carry during business hours or to and from.

Until you are an LEO or have a pistol license you cannot legally touch a handgun. You cannot legally handle one in a store or rent one at a range. If a licensee or LEO lets you handle or shoot their handgun, even in their presence you are both violating the law.

Once you get your license, you can now buy a gun but you can't pick it up yet. You must take the details (make, model, serial number to the police and obtain a purchase permit good for ten days. This lets you take possession of your handgun so you can bring it back to the police have the details recorded and listed on your license.

Any trouble in your life, the first thing they will do is suspend your pistol license " pending investigation" and make you surrender your handguns.

Down state your license must be renewed every few years - if you don't apply for renewal and pay the fees the come take your guns.

Oh and by the way, Fuck New York State.

It is literally quicker and easier to buy NFA items than to obtain a NY state pilstol license in Long Island, NY.

My head just exploded. WTF!!!

Tell your friend to move to Texas! Screw New York

[Ed L]

Everytime I get interested in lever actions I keep hearing that they are not reliable for defensive situations
(Dagga seems to dissagree but he is in the minority) but the 5 rnd magazine limit applies to fixed magazines
as well so that is always a problem. I really wanted a Henry 22lr lever or pump rifle but could not see how
to make that realistic in NYC. NYPD keeps checking with me about my Hawk Pump Shotgun (870 clone
from China) to be sure the magazine only holds five.


The 5 round magazine limit applies only to NYC.

In NY State you can have 10 round magazines in a longarm.

HCM made some very good suggestions.

[Shellback]

I guess that depends on how recoil sensitive the guy is.

Over penetration (presumably speaking of walls) remains a problem either way.

I would think using a push-pull technique with proper training, and some #7 shot, would help mitigate both of those problems.

[Hambo]

I would STRONGLY recommend an unrestricted long gun like a shotgun, mini 14, 10/22 or lever gun. Outside NYC you can buy these with a drivers license and a nics check - nothing else is require to keep them in your home or shoot them at a range.

The problem with a revolver is it is NEW YORK.



Roger that.

Revised recommendation: Mini-14 or a Benelli/Beretta semi-auto.