Milt Sparks Versa Max 2 RFI

[RJ]

Hi - Looking for some holster advice.

I have had mixed success with holsters, being new to concealed carry in 2015. I've tried both traditional strong side IWB as well as AIWB recently, with multiple kydex holsters from a well-regarded holster maker.

Due to my particular physical characteristics, AIWB is not working well due to too much gut, as well as uncomfortable poking in my gentleman area. (As they say, AIWB is not for everyone.)

As to my experience with IWB, for both examples I've tried (for a duty sized double stack, as well as a subcompact single stack) is that there is much more sliding "down" than I am comfortable with. Meaning, the holster/gun combo slides or pulls down (gravity). Although this is likely due in part to the aforementioned gut, exacerbating this issue for me is that inner side of kydex holsters are fairly slippery, against my clothing, at least for me.

What happens with my IWB holsters is that I end up doing up my belt so tight, in order to prevent it slipping, that it ends up being uncomfortable.

I can certainly stand to lose a few more pounds, and am taking steps to do that in 2017. Meanwhile, I am ready to try to consider other options. One is a leather IWB.

After doing some research, I've determined that Milt Sparks leather makes the best classic IWB design, the Versa Max 2, which as I understand has been very popular over the years. Given that, it seems likely to me that a VM2 might make a good option for me for a leather IWB holster for my P30SK.

http://www.miltsparks.com/products-versa-max-2.php

I'd appreciate it if anyone has any advice about Milt Sparks, the Versa Max 2, or leather IWB holsters in general.

At $125 for a cowhide version, it will be a fairly expensive commitment. Based on their website, there is also up to an 18 week wait. Hence, getting some information from the experts on the forum before I make this call.

Specifically:

Do you find a good IWB holster slips "less" downward, than an equivalent kydex? (I'm assuming the leather design "fills" more of the void between belt and pant, and the inner leather surface has a higher coefficient of friction than slippery kydex.)

Do you need to tighten your belt awkwardly with a leather IWB? (My hope is not)

Any thoughts on PTD loops vs. clips for IWB use? (I'm fine with PTDs)

Do you find that you can "move" the holster around on your belt if needed? I.e. from behind the hip, to directly off the hip, to slightly forward?

I'm a lefty, if it makes any difference.

Thanks!

[farscott]

I use a pair of VM-2 with my P30, and I own copies for guns as varied as K-frames to 1911-pattern guns to Beretta 92. I have been using VM-2 holsters for close to fifteen years, and I have much the same issues with AIWB. So my thoughts:

1) Get a VM-2 with 1.5-inch loops.
2) Get a good belt that fits the holster loops. The loops do not allow the gun to shift unlike the clips.
3) Great holster that requires a bit of fiddling to best conceal the gun. Once you figure out the sweet spot, it is very comfortable and provides excellent concealment.
4) The horsehide is worth the upgrade as it provides a stiffer, more sweat-resistant holster.
5) A pair of holsters swapped daily is the best as it allows the holster to dry between usage.

[Leroy Suggs]

I carried a Commander 9 years in a VM2.
It totally concealed that weapon on me wearing a T or polo.

Very comfortable and very secure. It will not move around.

The loops are available in three sizes, 1.25 1.5 and 1.75.

You will not have to cinch down your belt, I don't think.

I had the cowhide and it was fine.

[taadski]

My father is about 5'7" and 190 lbs or so. Perhaps a similar body type? He carries a full sized pistol in a VM2 I bought for him a number of years ago. Even with the leather, he has had issues with having to keep his belt overly tight (enough to create discomfort) in order to keep his pants/gun where he wants them. I think leather is certainly better in regards to friction than kydex, but perhaps not enough to make a definitive difference, IDK. I know it might not be popular fashion-wise, but his solution most days is a pair of suspenders.

Re holster availability, check Top Gun Supply. They keep a wide selection of VM2s (including for HKs) in stock for immediate purchase. Brownells also keeps some Sparks model holsters in stock, although I don't recall if the VMII is one of them. Just FYI.

Here's a link to TGS: http://www.topgunsupply.com/holsters/milt-sparks.html

[Tony Mayer]

Rich, try putting some of this on the holster http://www.soles2dance.com/Suede-sheet-with-super-strong-adhesive-backing-p/suede-diy.htm , I have used it on a few and it works great and is super easy to install.

Also, suspenders work, not fashionable but if you get smaller ones (http://www.duluthtrading.com/store/mens/mens-accessories/mens-suspenders/11084.aspx?processor=content) they go un-noticed under a polo or button down shirt untucked. You will have to do a little modifying to the clips but they work great.

Hope that helps.

[LSP552]

Mole skin on the back of kydex helps keep it in place and I find it adds comfort.

I personally prefer the Milt Sparks Summer Special or Summer Special 2 to the VM2. The rough out SS keeps the gun anchored while the VM2 can be slippery, and I'm 6'3, 205.

There is a definite difference in SS2 between guns. The SS2 is perfect for Glocks, yet sits way lower for a SIG, to the point of interfering with establishing a grip. For a 226, much prefer the original SS over anything else.

[LSP552]

Rich,

Top Gun Supply will likely have them quicker. Check with them often, they have a steady pipeline.

http://www.topgunsupply.com/holsters/milt-sparks/hk-versa-max-2.html

[Cory]

I have no VMII experience. I have carried IWB strong side in hybrid holsters since Feb 2013. I'm 6' 165lbs. Pretty different build, but I have had sag issues as well. They really went away when i started wearing a decent belt. Not neccessarily a big belt, but a stiff one that didn't rely on a buckle that could slowly loosen over the course of the day. That helped me far more then soft leather toward me vs. rough leather toward me ever did.

I think if you get a stiff belt that cant loosen over time like many (not all) web belts you would be all set. A proper belt can only let the pistol sag so much, because it wont be able to fall any farther.

I could be far off. Maybe you already use an awesome belt. I can tell you that having used hybrids for a few years im moving toward kydex not leather. It hilda up better over time. Eitherway i hope you find what works for you.

-Cory

[172driver]

I use the vm2 and the nexus for my les baer, 226, and Glock 43. Extremely comfy, no issues printing. Buy a sparks belt to match and call it a day.

[DamonL]

I used a summer special and then a vm2 when I carried a 1911 and still have them. I am a Milt Sparks fan boy. The vm2 is nice because the loops are on either side of the body of the holster and spreads the weight well. I use the loops and they match my belt width of 1.5". I like the loops because they allow me to put on and take off the gun without removing my belt. I have not tried the clips. The cant of the holster is intended for behind the hip carry and will work best from 3 to 4 o'clock. If you are not using a gun belt, that could contribute to sag. I use a raven concealment holster IWB and it works as well as a vm2. So I would look at your belt and loop size matching the belt first.

[OnionsAndDragons]

I really like the style of holster like the IWB-P1 that JRC Holsters does, for something that isn't super heavy like a 1911. The hybrid model that JMCK and JRC collaborate on looks like it could be an option to consider as well.

I definitely suggest getting a full sized P30 holster, as it will also accommodate your VP9!

I also third the suggestion of suspenders, at least as a stop-gap until you have hit your fitness goal.

[1slow]

I used a Summer Special for 1911s and later went to the Sparks Executive for GL 21, 30, 17,19. It carried very well.

[Spurholder]

Any USP owner try a VMII with their full-sized pistol? In the market for an IWB holster for mine, and I found one for sale. Thanks.

[MGW]

I definitely suggest getting a full sized P30 holster, as it will also accommodate your VP9!



Are you positive about that? I asked Tony about compatibility between P30 and VP9 holsters and thought I remembered him telling me no. Something about the difference between the trigger guards.

[sierra 223]

Lots of good responses. As far as concealing goes make sure shirt is a little bigger than you would wear unarmed and cannot stress enough how much a high quality belt specifically for carrying a gun will help you. I use both a Wilderness Instructor belt and Beltman for a leather belt.

I want to try the Milt Sparks but have only used a Blade Tech for IWB. The suede stuck to a kydex holster sounds like a good idea.

As far as an OWB I have had excellent luck with a X-Concealment "C" series holster. I have used both Blade Tech and X-Concealmeant for several years, carry everyday and they both have held up really well.

[GyroF-16]

Any USP owner try a VMII with their full-sized pistol? In the market for an IWB holster for mine, and I found one for sale. Thanks.
I have one for a USPc and love it. I know it's not the answer to the "full sized pistol" question, but thought I'd offer a data point.

Gyro

[DMF13]

I have a FIST #20 hybrid (leather over thin kydex), with two tension screws added. It is a very similar design to the VM2, but gives you the best of both worlds, comfort of leather next to the skin, with the speed and retention of kydex. Not a pretty holster (but it's for concealment so who cares?), and not cheap, but works great.

I'll also second the recommendation from earlier in the thread to be sure you have a good gun belt. Much discussion of that here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?16830-I-need-a-new-belt&highlight=belt

[orionz06]

Rich, try putting some of this on the holster http://www.soles2dance.com/Suede-sheet-with-super-strong-adhesive-backing-p/suede-diy.htm , I have used it on a few and it works great and is super easy to install.

Likewise.






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[GJM]

I think behind the hip IWB carry is slow, prints too much with thicker pistols, and hurts.

For your P30SK, I would consider a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit (Express as it is faster to get and less expensive) OWB. My wife wears one daily with a G26, and with a short pistol, is doesn't give up much to an IWB.

Alternatively you could consider a man purse. :)

[RJ]

Thanks all. Great ideas.

Some have mentioned the belt question. I have two; an Uncle Miles Wilderness clone (bought first) and an Ares Aegis, both 1.5".

The UM belt is a metal buckle and velcro closure. I've mostly used it offset for AIWB. The adjustment is good and the tail tucks out of the way. When I bought it I weighed 205 so I've cut it down a bit. It is flexy, but I've found it better for AIWB if it is a little loose.

The Ares Aegis is very very stiff, and has a sliding buckle with locking cam. The adjustment is good and once in place, does not loosen. Problem is once tight, it is almost impossible to undo the cam without a tool (I push it loose with my EDC Streamlight).

I started with an XL and received karma for a L size, so fit is good. The tail extends to my strong side, so mostly I use it for IWB of the VP9 off my hip.

Looking forward, if I won the lottery I'd buy a leather Tow Belt (I'll add a link) for around $100. But I'm at 185 on the way to a goal weight of 170-175 lbs, so I want to wait till later in the year. But I do see buying a good leather belt later.

Thanks again guys!

[The Apprentice]

Are you positive about that? I asked Tony about compatibility between P30 and VP9 holsters and thought I remembered him telling me no. Something about the difference between the trigger guards.

It will work with a p30l however it is not ideal the retention isn't quite there. I think a p30 holster would be to short.

[RJ]

This is the belt I mentioned above:

Saddleback Leather Tow Belt 1.5" Wide Black https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00APLQCZQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_tai_o6sBybZ90ZG6H

[Cory]

Good job on the weight loss! Thats work.

Seems like your belts arent the issue. I wouldnt go real flimsy, but i havent AIWB carried yet. So take my belt input with a grain of salt. Hopefully someone can chime in with better info. Alot of this is just trying different combos to find what works best. That's the bitch of having something being so variable individually. Good luck.

-Cory

[RJ]

I think behind the hip IWB carry is slow, prints too much with thicker pistols, and hurts.

For your P30SK, I would consider a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit (Express as it is faster to get and less expensive) OWB. My wife wears one daily with a G26, and with a short pistol, is doesn't give up much to an IWB.



GJM - I owe you an Adult Beverage.

This looks EXACTLY like what I want. No hanging below the belt line, allows me to have a close secure fit, available for the P30SK, and (best of all) option for a lefty version.

Being OWB is not something I'd considered. My Florida uniform being baggy T shirt and cargo shorts, I have about 4" below the belt line.

Plus $75 beats $125. :)

Thank you so much.


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[GJM]

GJM - I owe you an Adult Beverage.

This looks EXACTLY like what I want. No hanging below the belt line, allows me to have a close secure fit, available for the P30SK, and (best of all) option for a lefty version.

Being OWB is not something I'd considered. My Florida uniform being baggy T shirt and cargo shorts, I have about 4" below the belt line.

Plus $75 beats $125. :)

Thank you so much.


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For two full years, which is like eons for me, I carried a P2000SK .40 every day in an Upper Limit. Here is a link in case others are interested:

http://mitchrosen.com/store/#!/Upper-Limit/p/43418139

Don't be too quick to disregard the man purse as a second option, I hear they come in handy for Internet purse fights.

[GJM]

PS: I should also mention that it allows a darn fast draw, for leather. Depending upon what you are wearing, you can push it forward, to just in front of your hip, for an even faster draw.

[OnionsAndDragons]

Are you positive about that? I asked Tony about compatibility between P30 and VP9 holsters and thought I remembered him telling me no. Something about the difference between the trigger guards.

Fairly confident.

Kydex, no go. The slide dimensions are just enough different.

But both my JRC holsters will happily fit p30, p2000 and VP9. They are p30 rigs. It may be more of the bottom design and if so my advice would still stand in general, but would be to buy a VP9 leather holster and put the p30sk in it. Just might need a night or two of the parchment and/or bag trick. :)

[RJ]

Just an update: I ordered a Mitch Rosen Upper Limit Express in Cuban Brown today. $75, should ship in 4-5 weeks according to the nice lady I spoke to at MR.

I looked closely at my typical T shirt rig, and am very optimistic this will the "it" for me (yeah, right :cool:) as far as daily carry holsters go.

In related news, I joined a gym today with a specific goal of getting from my current 185 to 170 lbs, focusing on grip strength, core fitness and muscle tone/aerobic capacity overall. I'm definitely going to reevaluate AIWB after I get to a more, ah, non-round body shape around the middle. The last time I was at 172 was playing soccer and lifting weights in High School during the time of the dinosaurs.