Ruger's New 44SPL GP100--Got One!

[Tokarev]

The GP has been a standard in the Ruger catalog for a good 20-25 years. Nobody pays it much attention nowadays even though Ruger has probably sold somewhere between a million and a billion of the things. They've always been primarily a 38/357 revolver and have been available in several barrel lengths.

Ruger tried to shake things up over the last few years with GP's like the Match Champion and a nifty 3" gun inspired by Wiley Clapp. Well, continuing with interesting new variants, Ruger is now making a 5shot 44 Special.

I don't consider myself to be a revolver guy and don't have much use for the 357 Magnum. That doesn't mean it isn't an effective cartridge. I just prefer semi-autos for several reasons. But I am a walking contradiction and do have an affinity for big bore revolvers. I love old wheelguns like the Colt and S&W 1917's and guns like the S&W Thunder Ranch. I hate to admit it but I also like guns like the Taurus 431 (NOT the new stuff! [emoji107] ) and the older Charter Arms Bulldog.

This new Ruger variant was announced shortly before Christmas and I placed an order right after seeing the review on Jeff Quinn's website.

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-GP100-44.htm

Well, the gun showed up with my dealer today and I eagerly took delivery. Initial impressions are pretty good. I like the fiber optic front sight and the trigger is heavy but workable. There is a strong catch right when the cylinder stop pops into the notches but that can probably be tuned up. Single action is pretty crisp but with a bit of overtravel. Timing seems good and there doesn’t appear to be any excess play or shake in the cylinder.

The Hogue grips felt good but completely looked out of place on the gun. Too long in relation to the barrel! I took these off and replaced with a set of standard GP100 stocks. Much better and these should be a better choice for an "all around" carry gun.

I haven't shot the gun yet but do plan on hitting the range tomorrow. More to follow.

In the meantime, please feel free to ask any questions, etc.

Thanks for reading.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/3db7cb1b2a60b02bbbab68d5437bcc8b.jpg

Galco SUM192B holster

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/1f28271d2d3ab1a0b7f7fd8cc366afad.jpg

The GP as it came out of the box

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161228/0d3e8a238cd86c563b8f83620dee7923.jpg

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[Bigghoss]

http://img.pandawhale.com/85040-Ill-be-in-my-bunk-sXZg.jpeg

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Cool! I have a couple GP's, and I think they're great. I'm looking forward to seeing how this one plays out.


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[Tokarev]

The forcing cone could be a bit thicker.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161229/8bcfddd707b5fa68d2c2dedbb87fe25e.jpg


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[Duelist]

LGS has a Taurus 2" 431 and a Charter Bulldog. I have been trying very hard not to need one of them. Don't need another caliber to stock/load for, don't need it. Don't.

Unfluted, 3", and adjustable sights?

Um. Yeah. I'll be in my bunk.

[Tokarev]

Unfluted, 3", and adjustable sights?

Meh. Seems like minimal complaints to me. It could have been more utilitarian but I like the stainless.

What would have been way cool is an aluminum frame or, better yet, polymer. Can you imagine a medium frame LCR? Talk about a carry gun! Likely not too many people would be complaining about a heavy unfluted cylinder on that one.

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[Duelist]

Meh. Seems like minimal complaints to me. It could have been more utilitarian but I like the stainless.

What would have been way cool is an aluminum frame or, better yet, polymer. Can you imagine a medium frame LCR? Talk about a carry gun! Likely not too many people would be complaining about a heavy unfluted cylinder on that one.

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That's not me complaining! That's me saying, "excuse me, I'll be in my bunk!" A-la Jayne Cobb. It's Internets for "me likey".

[Jeep]

My big question: For those who don't reload is their any source of .44 special that costs materially less than $0.60 a round?

The .44 special is a great round, but it appears to be only affordable if you reload.

[Tokarev]

Uh oh! I'm getting poor accuracy and/or keyholing at 25 yards. Ammo used was Underwood 245gr FMJ and Underwood 200gr JHP.

The 245 stuff shot a bit better but I still had some evidence of keyholing. The 200gr stuff all pretty much went completely sideways.

So what's the deal? A slight constriction in the barrel where the barrel meets the frame?

Unfortunately it looks like this one's going to have to go back for warranty....[emoji24]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161229/cc644011000b52c97795fab6bfa9a47c.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161229/95413ecae57b77bcce2e4f70ac492f17.jpg



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[BehindBlueI's]

Unfortunately it looks like this one's going to have to go back for warranty....[emoji24]




Interesting, but I'll let others beta-test. I've learned my lesson on being the first kid on the block to buy any new offering from Ruger.



You'd think. I was the first kid on my block with a Wiley Clapp blued, and sent it back because the finish was wearing extremely rapidly. I was the first kid on my block with a Redhawk .45LC/.45ACP, and it's been three attempts to fix it with minimal improvements in reliability. So, yeah, I won't be assuming they'll get it right the first time.

http://answerguy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/i-told-you-so.jpg

In all seriousness, that sucks and I hope they get it taken care of for you quickly.

[Jeep]

Might it be an ammo problem instead of a gun problem? If the bullets are slightly undersized they might not have taken the rifling.

[Tokarev]

Might it be an ammo problem instead of a gun problem? If the bullets are slightly undersized they might not have taken the rifling.
That'd be my thought too if one load shot well and the other didn't. But neither load seems to want to group.

I just bought a box of Magtech 240gr lead. Let's see what that'll do.

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[Tokarev]

Okay. I shot the Magtech cowboy stuff at 25 yards. It shoots marginally better than the Underwood stuff but I still don't believe the gun is shooting like it should.

I had two other people shoot the gun and none of us had much luck with it.

I might try a few more factory loads just for grins but I'm afraid the little gun is destined for a trip back to the factory.

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[LockedBreech]

If they get this one squared away, I'd be a buyer. Does the .44 Spc. have a decent woods gun reputation? I'm in the deep Rocky Mountains so I'm talking genuine woods gun, like grizzlies and mountain lions. I have yet to pick up a .44 Magnum because I just haven't much enjoyed the cartridge.

[Tokarev]

If they get this one squared away, I'd be a buyer. Does the .44 Spc. have a decent woods gun reputation? I'm in the deep Rocky Mountains so I'm talking genuine woods gun, like grizzlies and mountain lions. I have yet to pick up a .44 Magnum because I just haven't much enjoyed the cartridge.
I'm completely confident that Ruger can and will either fix this gun or replace it under warranty. I've dealt with them before, unfortunately, in this regard but they've always taken care of me after the sale. That hasn't been the case with some other companies.

I don't know if I'd totally rely on the Special in bear country but I suppose it would get the job done with a fairly heavy solid bullet. Maybe a 41 Magnum might be a better choice if you don't want a 44?

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[Willard]

I have posted this elsewhere (and I think here) regarding Ruger CS...best I've ever experienced for any product, ever, bar none. If this is a redundant post, please excuse. I had a very lightly used Ruger Six Series revolver and the front of the ejector rod and front latch were not locking up reliably. Contacted Ruger and they immediately emailed me a Return Merchandise Authorization, inspected the gun promptly, ascertained they could not fix with parts on hand (be advised this is a problem if you buy a Six Series), and offered me a new revolver of my choosing as a replacement (no fee!). I wound up getting a Match Champion (no dice on the Wiley Clapp). Suppose I could have gone higher end, but that would have been cheeky. Bottomline, I NEVER expected this. Fully expected to pay for a repair, but they couldn't fix it, and still made it right, and they kept a customer. They could have tried the S&W technique I've read of where Smith gives you a discount on a new polymer or otherwise cheaply made gun you don't really want, but no. Whenever I can buy a Ruger these days, I try to based on that experience. I don't like relying on customer service instead of QC, but if you need it, it is great to have. I've had S&W repairs I've had to pay for. Glock makes you pay shipping. Pretty good service with SIG with shipping, but didn't seem like problem was resolved. I could go on. My experience with Ruger was perhaps atypical, but I'll always appreciate Ruger for taking care of me. YMMV.

[Pentz]

Might it be an ammo problem instead of a gun problem? If the bullets are slightly undersized they might not have taken the rifling.

Old timer/lurker here, but did you slug the cylinder throats and your barrel? Undersized bullets through oversized throats are not conducive to accuracy. Oversized (.332 and larger) throats are a classic problem with revolvers having .329 bores.

[Bigghoss]

If they get this one squared away, I'd be a buyer. Does the .44 Spc. have a decent woods gun reputation? I'm in the deep Rocky Mountains so I'm talking genuine woods gun, like grizzlies and mountain lions. I have yet to pick up a .44 Magnum because I just haven't much enjoyed the cartridge.

Sbould be good for mountain lions and maybe even black bears but if I were heading into brown territory I'd feel a lot better with a .44 magnum or .45 colt +p (formerly known as "Ruger only" loads) I say that as someone that doesn't have to worry about brown bears and has only spent any real time researching calibers for smaller animals.

With regards to Ruger CS, they once rebarreled a defective GP100 that left the factory some 15 years before I acquired it on their dime shipping included and threw in some new grips knowing full well I was not the original owner. Can't beat that, I say.

[md8232]

I've been talking with TK Custom about machining the cylinder for Moon Clips if the S&W Model 69 Clips will fit.
That and a BMT Mooner would make for a very happy birthday.

[Gary1911A1]

Sorry about the keyholing. Hope Ruger takes care of you. I am interested in getting one so please keep us advised of how Ruger handles this.

[Tokarev]

Sorry about the keyholing. Hope Ruger takes care of you. I am interested in getting one so please keep us advised of how Ruger handles this.
Will do.

I'm going to give the Ruger the benefit of the doubt and try another brand or two of ammo.

I still like the gun and think it has a ton of potential. It is kind of heavy but I like the size. It should make a great "all around" carry gun.

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[Tokarev]

Just loaded up a handful of rounds using Blue Dot and a 220gr cast bullet from GT Bullets.

http://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=50

They look like a nice bullet. Ten grabbed at random weigh 217.4 - 219.6. They measure .4295" in diameter.

Will they shoot? That's the question.

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[Hambo]

Try some jacketed bullets and see what happens.

[Tokarev]

Try some jacketed bullets and see what happens.
Yep. That's next.

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[Tokarev]

Well, my handload shoots okay.

25 yards with 220gr cast. 11.0gr Blue Dot.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161231/10198f841b5ca470c6db7153db31f788.jpg




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[Tokarev]

Same load at 15 yards.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161231/3ab9da3fce6f50e7e272a4541e384b7b.jpg




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[Nephrology]

Hear from Ruger yet, or are they closed over the holiday interval?

How does the gun handle recoil?

[Tokarev]

Hear from Ruger yet, or are they closed over the holiday interval?

How does the gun handle recoil?
I have not. I will call about a return after I have tried a few jacketed handloads and/or some other brands of factory ammo.

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[Hambo]

That looks promising.

[David S.]

Maybe it needs a break-in period. ;)

[irascible_joe]

I would suspect you have undersized cylinder throats and/or some thread choke in the barrel. Got a pin gauge set?

[Tokarev]

I would suspect you have undersized cylinder throats and/or some thread choke in the barrel. Got a pin gauge set?
No I don't unfortunately.

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[Eastex]

Looks like you put the Compact grips on it? If so how's the recoil with those on it?


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[Tokarev]

Looks like you put the Compact grips on it? If so how's the recoil with those on it?


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Not terrible. But followup shots might be a little difficult depending on the load.

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[john c]

I would suspect you have undersized cylinder throats and/or some thread choke in the barrel. Got a pin gauge set?

I agree. Many of my Ruger revolvers have the same issue. Do your bullets drop through the cylinder throats freely? Or are they a snug fit? That's a start.

Also, slugging the barrel will provide some info. You can do this with a soft lead fishing weight of .435 or so. Oil the bore, and force it through with a brass rod. Then measure with a micrometer. Also feel if there's a tight spot at the breech end.

Good luck!


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[Tokarev]

The cast bullets I bought measure .4295" and will drop through each chamber.

Also I tried running a tight patch through the barrel to feel for any tight spots, etc. There may be just the slightest hint of a change in the way the patch feels just in front of the forcing cone. Or it could be my imagination. If there is something there it is pretty insignificant. But I suppose it won't take much to deform a bullet and cause accuracy problems.

Another thing I tried Thursday when I first shot the gun was to shoot a few groups using the same chambers to see if one particular spot was out of whack. No dice there. Each chamber seemed to shoot as equally poor as the others so whatever is causing the issue is likely the barrel and not the cylinder.

Then here's my handload. This is just a bullet I bought online thrown together with a CCI primer, Magtech brass, a randomly selected charge of Blue Dot and some Lee dies. Accuracy was pretty darned good. So is it the gun or is it the Underwood stuff?

As I think I already mentioned I ordered another box of the 200gr JHP that was keyholing on me to see if it'll continue to do so. I also ordered a box of the lighter "Bulldog" load to see if the higher velocity is what the problem is.

Plan for today is to hit the gunshow and see if I can't find a box or two of big name factory ammo as well as a box or two of jacketed bullets. It wouldn't hurt to scare up a few more pieces of brass too.

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[Tokarev]

Here is a photo of the gun in its Galco holster. The holster does a nice job of keeping the gun close to the body.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170101/6ac67b72b47c681f03a438428e6f2eca.jpg

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[irascible_joe]

I have no experience with Underwood Ammo, but there are a few other sources of hard-cast .44 Special ammo that might be worth trying. Grizzly Ammo and Buffalo Bore both have good hard-cast offerings. Most of the other factory ammo you find will be low-power "cowboy" type loads with soft lead bullets.

[Tokarev]

I bought a box of 180gr XTP's and some Remington 240gr JHP's and have loaded five of each with Blue Dot. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get them shot.

Both bullets measure .430" and we'll see how they shoot. If neither shoot the gun's going back to the factory.

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[Tokarev]

I'm afraid I'll have to initiate a return.

Here is a 6" bullseye target at 25 yards. I fired 5 rounds of 200gr plated "FMJ" along with 5 rounds of reloaded 180 XTP and 5 rounds of 240 JHP reloads. Last was my 220cast load with 11gr of Blue Dot.

200gr stuff
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/5daf9ed74da3540bd9ed00257cb2d2df.jpg

180gr XTP's
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/32e74790ae96139e150855485d1ce9dc.jpg

240 JHP
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/6b2b7cb8a5fc99bd1cfa98c9cf549ac8.jpg

220gr cast. Note two bullet holes were from previous group with 240 JHP. Still all five rounds of cast are in the black.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/9bcc133a04758f7a09ee889cddeb8721.jpg

[Tokarev]

Another series. Targets 3, 4 and 5 were with the 200gr plated. Targets 1 and 2 are the 220gr cast. 25 yards.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/da5ae29156f059ba1f356cdb879421b2.jpg


What appears to be another keyhole

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/032a2d985ce0a364e947b77da44701dd.jpg


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[JonInWA]

While I'm pleased that Ruger is increasing the GP100 variants, I'm curious as to why they chose a 3" barrel for a .44 Special chambering versus a 4" one. I'd think that you'd get more out of that cartridge with a slightly longer, but not inordinately longer tube. I'd also speculate that it would balance better, and handle shot splits better... And I've never noticed all that much of a draw time benefit from a 3" versus a 4."

Then again, perhaps I should be appreciative that it's 3" instead of 2.75"...

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

While I'm pleased that Ruger is increasing the GP100 variants, I'm curious as to why they chose a 3" barrel for a .44 Special chambering versus a 4" one. I'd think that you'd get more out of that cartridge with a slightly longer, but not inordinately longer tube. I'd also speculate that it would balance better, and handle shot splits better... And I've never noticed all that much of a draw time benefit from a 3" versus a 4."

Then again, perhaps I should be appreciative that it's 3" instead of 2.75"...

Best, Jon
My thoughts are they didn't want to make a Redhawk in 44SPL so they went with something smaller and handier than what they already had to offer.

But I imagine a 4" gun will be produced if enough people express an interest.

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[Tokarev]

Ruger contacted. Inspection/ exchange/repair initiated. Hopefully we'll have a good shooting gun here in a short bit of time. More to follow....

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[Buckshot]

While I'm pleased that Ruger is increasing the GP100 variants, I'm curious as to why they chose a 3" barrel for a .44 Special chambering versus a 4" one. I'd think that you'd get more out of that cartridge with a slightly longer, but not inordinately longer tube. I'd also speculate that it would balance better, and handle shot splits better... And I've never noticed all that much of a draw time benefit from a 3" versus a 4."

Then again, perhaps I should be appreciative that it's 3" instead of 2.75"...

Best, Jon

The 3" GP is beautifully neutral in balance, where the 4" is definitely nose heavy. For a defensive revolver, it makes more sense. In fact, I just got a 3" barrel to screw on my 1st year 4" as soon as I finish up a GP for a certain large mammal circling nearby in this general vicinity. Ruger would be brilliant if they'd come out with a 5" 44 Spl version - I'd prefer it without an underlug. THAT would make an outstanding field revolver!

[Tokarev]

That's not me complaining! That's me saying, "excuse me, I'll be in my bunk!" A-la Jayne Cobb. It's Internets for "me likey".

Ah I thought it meant it wasn't worth getting out of bed for.




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[irascible_joe]

While I'm pleased that Ruger is increasing the GP100 variants, I'm curious as to why they chose a 3" barrel for a .44 Special chambering versus a 4" one. I'd think that you'd get more out of that cartridge with a slightly longer, but not inordinately longer tube. I'd also speculate that it would balance better, and handle shot splits better... And I've never noticed all that much of a draw time benefit from a 3" versus a 4."

Then again, perhaps I should be appreciative that it's 3" instead of 2.75"...

Best, Jon

I'd bet the cult status, and concomitant crazy high prices, of the Smith 696 motivated their decision.

[Tokarev]

I'd bet the cult status, and concomitant crazy high prices, of the Smith 696 motivated their decision.
The 696 is a different breed, no? Scandium frame, etc.

Here's something somewhat related. This is a 220gr cast hollow point loaded with Blue Dot at a little above max for a 429215 cast bullet as published in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook.

This bullet had a chrono'ed velocity of just over 1,050 fps and penetrated right to 20in in 10% gel from Clear Ballistics. It was fired through four layers of clothing and expanded to .540" diameter. Current weight is 214.4 grains.

Cast bullets always have some weight variance and the few of these I've weighed start out at about 218gr. I didn't notice any chunks of lead in the gel but I seem to have lost a few grains somewhere.

This load is a bit above max but there does not seem to be any signs of pressure. And it is under what Brian Pearce shows for a heavier bullet in his 2005 article. Recoil is stout but not uncomfortable and is actually pretty fun. It has an authoritative thump without being punishing.

I'm pretty surprised at the muzzle velocity and how well the bullet worked especially after being fired through clothing. Once I get the gun back I'll have to play with this load some more and see what we can do.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170104/012622332baa4729566f7b8ed33c5c0a.jpg

Note the bits of fabric embedded in the cavity.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170104/c83eecb6e2633a3f37fa72bebd9161ce.jpg

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[irascible_joe]

The 696 is a different breed, no? Scandium frame, etc.


I believe you're thinking of the 396. 696 was all stainless steel, 3" barrel, adjustable sights, 5-shot on an L-frame.

[Tokarev]

I believe you're thinking of the 396. 696 was all stainless steel, 3" barrel, adjustable sights, 5-shot on an L-frame.
Ah yes.

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[JonInWA]

The 3" GP is beautifully neutral in balance, where the 4" is definitely nose heavy. For a defensive revolver, it makes more sense. In fact, I just got a 3" barrel to screw on my 1st year 4" as soon as I finish up a GP for a certain large mammal circling nearby in this general vicinity. Ruger would be brilliant if they'd come out with a 5" 44 Spl version - I'd prefer it without an underlug. THAT would make an outstanding field revolver!

My thought is that a 3" makes sense in that it's a bit lighter, and, as you said, I'll buy that it's a bit more neutral than a 4". Where I diverge is that I think the nose-heaviness of the 4" pays off in decreasing split times if/when a second (or more) shots are needed, and in having a longer sight plane for greater ease in achieving practical accuracy.

To me, .44 Special is an interesting, but a bit of an odd niche. Essentially it strikes me as a historical anomaly worshiping at the alter of "slow but heavy," with the hope of inertia/mass providing decisive terminal results. To me, it's more of a bridge cartridge that's been practically overshadowed by the smokeless powder and increased cartridge technology of .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. I guess I'm guilty of presupposing that it's primary value and attractiveness is that of a woods/wilderness cartridge that's nominally lighter and easier to handle than a .44 Magnum (or larger). I'm unsure as to it's viability as a defense cartridge over 3" and 4" .357 Magnum; I'm certainly not trying to imply that it won't work or i valueless, but I'm questioning why you would choose it over a six-shot .357 Magnum in a same-sized platform. I guess time and empirical results will tell-and overall, I'm glad that Ruger chose to move forward with the GP100 platform-it's a great revolver.

Best, Jon

[Tokarev]

Here is Jeff Quinn's answer:

Some might ask, “Why a 44 Special?”, and that is a good question. The 44 Special is accurate and reliable, but it is also a good defensive cartridge. The 44 throws a large bullet at moderate velocity, and on paper, doesn’t look all that impressive. It is much like a revolver version of the good old 45 ACP. However, on target, whether inanimate steel or living flesh and bone, the 44 Special gets the job done. It hits with authority, and penetrates well. If you are of the school of thought which believes in peppering the target with a handful of small, fast-stepping bullets, the 44 Special is not for you. However, if you tend towards hitting the target hard and making a large hole, the 44 just might be your baby. The 44 Special gets the job done with minimal recoil and muzzle blast. I carry a 44 Special in my pocket every day. The Ruger GP100 is a bit large for a pocket gun, but it fills that gap between pocket gun and heavy belt gun, and is what has for years been designated a “big-bore belly gun”. The Ruger GP100 44 Special revolver is compact, reliable, accurate, and made in the USA.

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[Redhat]

Here is Jeff Quinn's answer:

Some might ask, “Why a 44 Special?”, and that is a good question. The 44 Special is accurate and reliable, but it is also a good defensive cartridge. The 44 throws a large bullet at moderate velocity, and on paper, doesn’t look all that impressive. It is much like a revolver version of the good old 45 ACP. However, on target, whether inanimate steel or living flesh and bone, the 44 Special gets the job done. It hits with authority, and penetrates well. If you are of the school of thought which believes in peppering the target with a handful of small, fast-stepping bullets, the 44 Special is not for you. However, if you tend towards hitting the target hard and making a large hole, the 44 just might be your baby. The 44 Special gets the job done with minimal recoil and muzzle blast. I carry a 44 Special in my pocket every day. The Ruger GP100 is a bit large for a pocket gun, but it fills that gap between pocket gun and heavy belt gun, and is what has for years been designated a “big-bore belly gun”. The Ruger GP100 44 Special revolver is compact, reliable, accurate, and made in the USA.

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I wonder what make / model .44 spcl he carries in his pocket?

[Redhat]

Another series. Targets 3, 4 and 5 were with the 200gr plated. Targets 1 and 2 are the 220gr cast. 25 yards.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/da5ae29156f059ba1f356cdb879421b2.jpg


What appears to be another keyhole

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170102/032a2d985ce0a364e947b77da44701dd.jpg


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I haven'tread the entire thread so forgive me if I missed it...but have you looked at the bore?

[Tokarev]

I wonder what make / model .44 spcl he carries in his pocket?
I think he carries a Charter Arms.

Really the choice is pretty limited. He has Charter Arms and ??? Maybe an old S&W 396 or a Rossi 720. And this Ruger isn't really a pocket gun unless he wears some kind of custom made concealment pants.

As I think I've said, I think it'd be fantastic to see Ruger come out with a medium frame LCR in 44SPL. It would be a unique and very nice revolver.

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[Tokarev]

I haven'tread the entire thread so forgive me if I missed it...but have you looked at the bore?
Nothing unusual noted in the barrel. I did fire a few cast bullets into gel and measured them with dial calipers. These measurements indicated that I have 0.429" and 0.418" lands and grooves respectively.

Ruger has sent a call tag and will hopefully repair or replace the gun soon. I'll update here when I can.

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[Lester Polfus]

My thought is that a 3" makes sense in that it's a bit lighter, and, as you said, I'll buy that it's a bit more neutral than a 4". Where I diverge is that I think the nose-heaviness of the 4" pays off in decreasing split times if/when a second (or more) shots are needed, and in having a longer sight plane for greater ease in achieving practical accuracy.

To me, .44 Special is an interesting, but a bit of an odd niche. Essentially it strikes me as a historical anomaly worshiping at the alter of "slow but heavy," with the hope of inertia/mass providing decisive terminal results. To me, it's more of a bridge cartridge that's been practically overshadowed by the smokeless powder and increased cartridge technology of .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. I guess I'm guilty of presupposing that it's primary value and attractiveness is that of a woods/wilderness cartridge that's nominally lighter and easier to handle than a .44 Magnum (or larger). I'm unsure as to it's viability as a defense cartridge over 3" and 4" .357 Magnum; I'm certainly not trying to imply that it won't work or i valueless, but I'm questioning why you would choose it over a six-shot .357 Magnum in a same-sized platform. I guess time and empirical results will tell-and overall, I'm glad that Ruger chose to move forward with the GP100 platform-it's a great revolver.

Best, Jon

I think what I'm interested in is a .44 "Extra" special. Something that will launch a 240-250 grain bullet about 1000 to 1100 FPS out of an L-Frame/GP100 sized package, instead of something that launches a 240 Grain bullet at 1300 FPS (or more) out of a N-Frame sized package.

[Tokarev]

I think what I'm interested in is a .44 "Extra" special. Something that will launch a 240-250 grain bullet about 1000 to 1100 FPS out of an L-Frame/GP100 sized package, instead of something that launches a 240 Grain bullet at 1300 FPS (or more) out of a N-Frame sized package.
I wish we'd see ammo makers take note. It would be nice to have SAAMI specs on a +P. Not that hotter data doesn't exist but it would be nice to have some tested pressure measurements with hotter reloads and ammo. 15,500 psi is pretty mild.

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[Hambo]

I'm questioning why you would choose it over a six-shot .357 Magnum in a same-sized platform. I guess time and empirical results will tell-and overall, I'm glad that Ruger chose to move forward with the GP100 platform-it's a great revolver.

Best, Jon

There are probably better defensive bullet choices in .357 than in .44. Most jacketed .44 bullets are built with the magnum in mind.

[Tokarev]

There are probably better defensive bullet choices in .357 than in .44. Most jacketed .44 bullets are built with the magnum in mind.
Speer makes a Gold Dot that's supposed to be built as a dedicated Special bullet. I've seen some mixed reviews. I will try some in ballistic gel after the gun's back from Ruger.

Also curious to see what the 200gr SIG offering will do.

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[Sherman A. House DDS]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/d65dcfe143c6753e0eceedbeac6df625.jpg

I like the .44 SPC Gold Dots. They're accurate and mild in recoil.


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[Tokarev]

Underwood has two loads using the Gold Dot. One is mildy hot for Bulldog only. The other is full power and listed at 1100fps.

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[Tamara]

Speer makes a Gold Dot that's supposed to be built as a dedicated Special bullet. I've seen some mixed reviews. I will try some in ballistic gel after the gun's back from Ruger.

Sadly, they're supposedly bad about underpenetrating, as are the other commonly available commercial .44 Spl defense loads, the Critical Defense from Hornady.

I'm going to be trying some of the 200gr Gold Dot on Clear Gel myself out of my S&W 296, just because I want to see. I'll be interested to see what your results are from the 3" tube of the Ruger. I'm also meaning to try Federal's 200gr LSWC-HP, since I still have a hundred rounds or so of that on hand.

I love me some .44 Special; I've owned a Bulldog Pug and a Rossi 720 Covert (both were garbage) and Smith 696 and three different barrel lengths of 624. Still have a 21TR and the aforementioned 296, as well as prewar 2nd and 3rd Model Hand Ejectors.

[Tokarev]

I see from Hornady literature that the 165gr Critical Defense only penetrates about 9.5in in gel. That is about what good .380 ammo will do. Granted we have a larger and heavier slug but still we need better. Surely that bullet can be pushed a bit faster to get a few more inches of penetration.

What does the Buffalo Bore 190gr gas check do? Or even the old 180gr XTP? I will have to get a box or two of each to try in clear gel.

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[Tokarev]

Here's a tiny bit of data with handloads and clear gel.

I loaded some 220gr cast hollow point bullets with a stiff charge of Unique. Impact velocity was chrono'ed in the 950's. I have another load using Blue Dot that's running 100fps faster but the recoil is getting a bit stout.

Also tried is a 185gr cast bullet from Rimrock. These are what's supposedly used by Buffalo Bore. These are also loaded with Unique to an impact velocity of about 1050.

It look five tries to recover the two Rimrock bullets shown here. All appear to have expanded but they radically veer off course in gel so most exited out of the side of the block.

All these bullets were fired 10ft from the block and through the four layers of shirt, insulation and denim jacket material.

Two recovered Rimrock bullets. Penetration was about 11" for the more mushroomed one while the less open one punched through 16" of gel. With that said, the less mushroomed one is a bit misshapen because it veered down into the gel and skimmed along the top of the table the gel block was sitting on. It may have not penetrated so deeply had it been caught entirely in the block.

Retained weight on both is about 177gr.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/c9c07f2c4bac6104193403f378b7a584.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/045be78ec7184ad84654e96b4c96a553.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/331e3a773fd1b978c39165d7a2ecc1f6.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Here are the 220cast hollowpoint bullets. These penetrated much deeper and went through the front block and into the back. Both wound tracks are pretty straight. One bullet penetrated about 23" and the other was closer to 27" overall. Both still weigh about 217gr but neither opened up much.

This same bullet went about 20" and opened to .540" at the higher velocity of the Blue Dot load.

With Rimrocks for comparison
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/27087dbda1ca5afa0c734de89660eb91.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/81ed4e46451e9d4ba2b2cdc2e747bf29.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/f57e747a47f31b565993e78ed61419ef.jpg

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[BehindBlueI's]

Why not just run a wadcutter?

If you're doing this just for funsies and as a hobby, knock yourself out. If you're really concerned with a defensive gun, then the .357 mag has been more impressive more often than the .44 spec in uses I've seen. Jeff Quinn's "hitting with authority" metric aside, penetration has been pretty underwhelming. .44 mag, though...ouchie.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Why not just run a wadcutter?

If you're doing this just for funsies and as a hobby, knock yourself out. If you're really concerned with a defensive gun, then the .357 mag has been more impressive more often than the .44 spec in uses I've seen. Jeff Quinn's "hitting with authority" metric aside, penetration has been pretty underwhelming. .44 mag, though...ouchie.

.44 Magnum, "Ouchie," like, "Ouchie it zinged this guy, his sofa, his date, her Pomeranian, and the Dodge parked out front," or, "Ouchie. He ain't going to limp away from that shit?"


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[Tokarev]

Why not just run a wadcutter?

If you're doing this just for funsies and as a hobby, knock yourself out. If you're really concerned with a defensive gun, then the .357 mag has been more impressive more often than the .44 spec in uses I've seen. Jeff Quinn's "hitting with authority" metric aside, penetration has been pretty underwhelming. .44 mag, though...ouchie.
Yep. Mostly messing around just for fun.

Of course the. 357 Magnum will win. We've got decades of actual street shootings to draw from plus the cartridge was a mainstay in LE until about 25 years ago. Everybody makes good modern ammo for it.

The Special is kind of the forgotten cartridge in all this as is the 41 Mag. Aside from Skeeter Skelton's work with the 44 Special I doubt there's been any LE interest in almost 50 years. The 41 was also pushed by Great Wheelgunners of the past and both can no doubt be incredibly effective with the right (aka modern) ammo.

The demand issue is the problem. Ruger has a nifty defensive gun here but there's no real choice of defense ammo. If you build it they will come? Probably not. Too bad, really. I think there's room in the industry for a cartridge that's above the antiquated Special but not the overkill hunting round that is the 44 Magnum.

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[BehindBlueI's]

.44 Magnum, "Ouchie," like, "Ouchie it zinged this guy, his sofa, his date, her Pomeranian, and the Dodge parked out front," or, "Ouchie. He ain't going to limp away from that shit?"


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Well, you're a doctor so maybe you can help with a .44 mag related question. Is there a medical term for "destroyed a testicle, went through the groin, and created an aftermarket a-hole" by any chance? Bullet did keep on trucking after doing all that work, didn't even seem tired...

I think I put the story in the roll call stories section, but at it's most basic, older guy seated fires at standing younger guy in self defense. Aimed for groin. It worked.

[Lester Polfus]

Well, you're a doctor so maybe you can help with a .44 mag related question. Is there a medical term for "destroyed a testicle, went through the groin, and created an aftermarket a-hole" by any chance? Bullet did keep on trucking after doing all that work, didn't even seem tired...

I think I put the story in the roll call stories section, but at it's most basic, older guy seated fires at standing younger guy in self defense. Aimed for groin. It worked.

If the younger guy had ball one, he would kept fighting. :p

I totally agree that the .357 is a much better choice than the .44 Special, or even the .44 Extra Special. What is an even better choice than a .357 is a Glock 19 full of Gold Dots, which I have in spades.

My interest in this is two fold: 1) As a potential "field pistol" for the lower 48, and potentially even Alaska, which is not a hypothetical need for me, since I live adjacent to a National Forest and 2) Because it's cool.

Honestly my Glock 20 with a 200 grain bullet @ 1150 is probably a better choice for #1. Which leaves #2. I'm starting to give myself permission to be interested in stuff because it's cool.

[Tokarev]

I'm starting to give myself permission to be interested in stuff because it's cool.

We do sometimes overlook the fact that guns can be fun to own outside a martial sense. I don't know why it sometimes seems like we work extra hard to take the fun out of the hobby of gun ownership.



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[Lester Polfus]

I wonder what make / model .44 spcl he carries in his pocket?

I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Quinn carries a Charter Arm Bulldog Pug in his pocketses. A perusal of his website shows him gushing about a custom Bulldog that features no front sight and porting (http://www.gunblast.com/Charter-Boomer.htm).

It also doubles as a chew toy for his dog, which having owned a Bulldog Pug, I find to be perfectly appropriate.

[Lester Polfus]

We do sometimes overlook the fact that guns can be fun to own outside a martial sense. I don't know why it sometimes seems like we work extra hard to take the fun out of the hobby of gun ownership.



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Guns inhabit two different worlds.

On the one hand, they are a eminently practical tool that can be used to save your life. That is also true of a fire extinguisher. However people tend to buy a fire extinguisher and forget about it, without thinking about them much, and they certainly don't adorn them, or become emotionally attached to them.

But guns are also cool, in the same way Harley's, muscle cars, and Japanese Swords are cool. They are also, as this gentleman elegantly writes, (https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/why-do-you-keep-doing-it.60630/#post-742782) dreaming aids.

I've bought, sold and traded a bunch of stuff over the years, and, particularly after the Great Post Divorce Gun Sell Off, got down to a small number of eminently practical firearms with no sentimental value.

Now that I'm in a different phase of life, I'm starting to relax about that a little and allowing myself to just enjoy shooting. My "self defense" guns will always be tools, Glocks which I have no attachment to. But I'm allowing myself the idea of buying some nice stuff to enjoy the outdoors with. There's a dearth of blued steel and walnut in my life.

[BehindBlueI's]

We do sometimes overlook the fact that guns can be fun to own outside a martial sense. I don't know why it sometimes seems like we work extra hard to take the fun out of the hobby of gun ownership.



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Sure. It's when the worlds collide that I start getting itchy. If you want to own a heel release .22 short vest pocket pistol because it's cool and fun, no problem. If you try to justify it as a good defensive weapon because you want something cool and fun, I'll call you on it. I own guns for funsies, hell I've got a set up to carry a 6" Model 29 IWB because reasons and to see if it could be done and to point to and laugh when people whine about a gun being too heavy to carry. I just don't kid myself that it's really a good idea to pack the combo around town when I'm measurably worse at tests I consider relevant to a defensive gun. When shit goes sideways, you don't really care if your gun is cool/unique/hipster.

[Tokarev]

Another pic for reference. 5.5gr of Red Dot for about 800fps with the 220gr. 18" of penetration through heavy clothing. http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/c9bb18000cb0df68e7e280a58a8f2dbc.jpg

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/4172827b12c9a0f3836849cd7d77ab68.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Sure. It's when the worlds collide that I start getting itchy. If you want to own a heel release .22 short vest pocket pistol because it's cool and fun, no problem. If you try to justify it as a good defensive weapon because you want something cool and fun, I'll call you on it. I own guns for funsies, hell I've got a set up to carry a 6" Model 29 IWB because reasons and to see if it could be done and to point to and laugh when people whine about a gun being too heavy to carry. I just don't kid myself that it's really a good idea to pack the combo around town when I'm measurably worse at tests I consider relevant to a defensive gun. When shit goes sideways, you don't really care if your gun is cool/unique/hipster.

Fair enough although I imagine some forum members might be interested in the 44's performance both as a defensive sidearm and as a toy.

But if not, sorry for the wasted electrons.

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[Tamara]

I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Quinn carries a Charter Arm Bulldog Pug in his pocketses. A perusal of his website shows him gushing about a custom Bulldog that features no front sight and porting (http://www.gunblast.com/Charter-Boomer.htm).

This goes a long way toward explaining why I don't put a lot of credence in his advice on the topic.

[Sherman A. House DDS]

Well, you're a doctor so maybe you can help with a .44 mag related question. Is there a medical term for "destroyed a testicle, went through the groin, and created an aftermarket a-hole" by any chance? Bullet did keep on trucking after doing all that work, didn't even seem tired...

I think I put the story in the roll call stories section, but at it's most basic, older guy seated fires at standing younger guy in self defense. Aimed for groin. It worked.

Nice! Let's call it a, "RADICAL percutaneous orchiectomy/prostatectomy with rectalostomy."

Quick...somebody check my math on that. I usually work on the Northern end of the puzzle.


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[Sherman A. House DDS]

In response to the thread, I've had good luck with Buffalo Bore in .44 Special. Although I plead complete ignorance in how the BB performs in gelatin, or over a chronograph.


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[Tamara]

In response to the thread, I've had good luck with Buffalo Bore in .44 Special. Although I plead complete ignorance in how the BB performs in gelatin, or over a chronograph.

I still have a few boxes of the Keith load that Buffalo Bore did specifically for the 21TR. (It's the load the gun's sighted for from the factory.)

Like any WC- or SWC-type bullet I imagine it will kill something (or someone) deader'n Elvis if it goes right through something important, and underpenetration is not one of its flaws.

[Tokarev]

I still have a few boxes of the Keith load that Buffalo Bore did specifically for the 21TR. (It's the load the gun's sighted for from the factory.)

Like any WC- or SWC-type bullet I imagine it will kill something (or someone) deader'n Elvis if it goes right through something important, and underpenetration is not one of its flaws.
Didn't Keith design his bullet for maximum penetration while still providing a good permanent wound cavity?

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[Lester Polfus]

This goes a long way toward explaining why I don't put a lot of credence in his advice on the topic.

Well, for me, it was when he extolled the virtues of a revolver, vs. an autoloader, as a carry gun for "social work*" because it doesn't leave shell casings behind. The whole Bulldog with no sights was the exclamation point at the end of the sentence for me though.

* I despise the term "social work" as a euphemism for shooting people. If I ever am in a body cast for months, in my free time I'm going to make up Gunwriter Cliche Bingo cards and "social work" will be in the center.

[Tokarev]

Honestly if we could all make a living doing what Jeff does who wouldn't?

Quinn's a nice guy. I've met him a couple times. I like that he doesn't pretend to be an operator. Yeah some of the guns he reviews I don't care about and those ones get ignored. But I usually find his reviews on products I'm interested in to be useful.


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[Stumpnav]

This will make a great summer time woods gun. Stoke it with two chambers of snake shot and three with some heavy hard cast solids. Two for the snakes and three for the hogs. Plus, it won't pull my pants down like a Redhawk will.

[tanner]

Plus, it won't pull my pants down like a Redhawk will.

Phrasing?

[Tamara]

Honestly if we could all make a living doing what Jeff does who wouldn't?

What, reviewing guns and shit? Oh, I definitely agree.

[Tokarev]

What, reviewing guns and shit? Oh, I definitely agree.
That's assuming he makes a living at it. Maybe his wife's a trauma surgeon.



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[BehindBlueI's]

Well, for me, it was when he extolled the virtues of a revolver, vs. an autoloader, as a carry gun for "social work*" because it doesn't leave shell casings behind. The whole Bulldog with no sights was the exclamation point at the end of the sentence for me though.

* I despise the term "social work" as a euphemism for shooting people. If I ever am in a body cast for months, in my free time I'm going to make up Gunwriter Cliche Bingo cards and "social work" will be in the center.

I don't know the guy, but the quotes and links to his articles from this thread make my head hurt a little. I appreciate the "not pretending to be an operator", but...ouch. If you don't know, it's ok to just not know. I've carried a pocket revolver at least twice, and I've *never* had the gun hang up on on a ramped front sight. I'm ok with laser grips...but holy crap, no front sight? The tired "you can't use your sights" bullshit? You can. Train to. I have. The "low light" shit. Ouch. I need an Anacin after that.

On a side note, I don't mind the phrase "social work". I enjoy a good euphemism.

[Jim Watson]

I'm reasonably certain that Mr. Quinn carries a Charter Arm Bulldog Pug in his pocketses. A perusal of his website shows him gushing about a custom Bulldog that features no front sight and porting.

This is likely a special edition from Magnaport, the "Backpacker." It is, as Chic Gaylord said, "suitable for an affair of honor in a telephone booth."

Jeff Cooper knew a sheriff who was not swallowing any of the stuff Cooper and his friends were putting out about automatics. So they found him a clean .44 Hand Ejector and loaded him a case of 250s at 900 and everybody was happy.

[Hambo]

This is likely a special edition from Magnaport, the "Backpacker."

Circa 1980 or so. The era of chopped S&W 39s, Detonics .45s, etc.

[Drang]

* I despise the term "social work" as a euphemism for shooting people. If I ever am in a body cast for months, in my free time I'm going to make up Gunwriter Cliche Bingo cards and "social work" will be in the center.
I kinda like Jeff Cooper's "Repelling boarders."

Circa 1980 or so. The era of chopped S&W 39s, Detonics .45s, etc.

Guttersnipe sights...

[Tamara]

This is likely a special edition from Magnaport, the "Backpacker."

No, this is a brand new "Boomer (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/bulldog/products/boomer)".


It is, as Chic Gaylord said, "suitable for an affair of honor in a telephone booth."

If I had a crystal ball that let me know my DGU would occur in a phone booth, I wouldn't buy a sightless revolver; I'd stay the hell out of phone booths.

This gun is dumb.

[Stephanie B]

No, this is a brand new "Boomer (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/bulldog/products/boomer)".



If I had a crystal ball that let me know my DGU would occur in a phone booth, I wouldn't buy a sightless revolver; I'd stay the hell out of phone booths.

This gun is dumb.

Are they in a race with Taurus to win the Crown of Derp?

[Tokarev]

Another review. This one from Massad Ayoob.

http://gunsmagazine.com/big-bore-breakout/

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[Tamara]

That was a fun weekend. I came in second to Mas in the bowling pin event. :)

[Hambo]

No, this is a brand new "Boomer (https://charterfirearms.com/collections/bulldog/products/boomer)".

I guess if you live long enough everything comes back around.

[Tokarev]

Backed the velocities off my 185gr reload by about 50fps.

Penetration is now more into the 14" range but expansion is far less dramatic.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170110/f2a5224520cde4fbb35603e99944605d.jpg

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[Buckshot]

My thought is that a 3" makes sense in that it's a bit lighter, and, as you said, I'll buy that it's a bit more neutral than a 4". Where I diverge is that I think the nose-heaviness of the 4" pays off in decreasing split times if/when a second (or more) shots are needed, and in having a longer sight plane for greater ease in achieving practical accuracy.

To me, .44 Special is an interesting, but a bit of an odd niche. Essentially it strikes me as a historical anomaly worshiping at the alter of "slow but heavy," with the hope of inertia/mass providing decisive terminal results. To me, it's more of a bridge cartridge that's been practically overshadowed by the smokeless powder and increased cartridge technology of .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum. I guess I'm guilty of presupposing that it's primary value and attractiveness is that of a woods/wilderness cartridge that's nominally lighter and easier to handle than a .44 Magnum (or larger). I'm unsure as to it's viability as a defense cartridge over 3" and 4" .357 Magnum; I'm certainly not trying to imply that it won't work or i valueless, but I'm questioning why you would choose it over a six-shot .357 Magnum in a same-sized platform. I guess time and empirical results will tell-and overall, I'm glad that Ruger chose to move forward with the GP100 platform-it's a great revolver.

Best, Jon

Agree on all your points

[Tokarev]

It appears that I owe Ruger a giant apology.

In preparation for the return of my GP100, I bought another box of the 200 grain jacketed hollow point from Underwood. Today I shot some of this ammo through an old Taurus model 431.

Much to my surprise, this ammo keyholed like crazy out of the Taurus.

So at this point I think Underwood may have gotten some out of spec bullets from Speer or they may be pushing the 200 grain Gold Dot too fast to be properly stabilized by a 1x20 twist. At least with a 3 inch barrel.

This afternoon I called Underwood and spoke to Justin. I told him what I was seeing and that I had a couple different guns now that have keyholed with their hot Gold Dot ammo. Justin said he would do some research and call me back.

I guess one way or the other I'll get this figured out

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[Redhat]

It appears that I owe Ruger a giant apology.

In preparation for the return of my GP100, I bought another box of the 200 grain jacketed hollow point from Underwood. Today I shot some of this ammo through an old Taurus model 431.

Much to my surprise, this ammo keyholed like crazy out of the Taurus.

So at this point I think Underwood may have gotten some out of spec bullets from Speer or they may be pushing the 200 grain Gold Dot too fast to be properly stabilized by a 1x20 twist. At least with a 3 inch barrel.

This afternoon I called Underwood and spoke to Justin. I told him what I was seeing and that I had a couple different guns now that have keyholed with their hot Gold Dot ammo. Justin said he would do some research and call me back.

I guess one way or the other I'll get this figured out

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Wonder if that hot ammo is stripping the rifling?

[Tokarev]

Wonder if that hot ammo is stripping the rifling?
That certainly could be although Brian Pearce has a 44SPL load that pushes the Gold Dot to somewhere in the area of 1200fps if his data is correct. Surely the Underwood ammo isn't above that.

I guess I'll wait to see what the Underwood technician says. He told me he'd call me back today.

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[Tamara]

There's a reason that it's a safe practice to stick to CCI/Speer or Hornady for serious ammo.

[jetfire]

Underwood ammo has repeatedly been garbage in my experience.


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[Tokarev]

Underwood ammo has repeatedly been garbage in my experience.


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That's interesting. I've used quite a bit of their 9mm and 380 and have had no issues with it.


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[Tokarev]

There's a reason that it's a safe practice to stick to CCI/Speer or Hornady for serious ammo.
It is hard to argue that point. Looks like I need to order up a couple boxes of "real" Gold Dot and see how they shoot.

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[41magfan]

FWIW: Ayoob has a write-up on the gun in the Mar/2017 edition of Guns Magazine. The most accurate load in his test gun was the factory loaded 200 grain Gold Dot rated at 920 fps …. 2.5” @ 25 yards. The other few loads tested yielded groups of about 3.5” on average.

[Tamara]

It is hard to argue that point. Looks like I need to order up a couple boxes of "real" Gold Dot and see how they shoot.

It used to be that the aluminum-cased CCI Blazer 200gr Gold Dot load was pretty much the cheapest factory option in .44 Special ammo, too, being cheaper than any of the 246gr LRN offerings from the majors. Unfortunately, it has pretty much doubled in price over the last decade... :(

[Tamara]

FWIW: Ayoob has a write-up on the gun in the Mar/2017 edition of Guns Magazine.

It's linked upthread.

[Tokarev]

It used to be that the aluminum-cased CCI Blazer 200gr Gold Dot load was pretty much the cheapest factory option in .44 Special ammo, too, being cheaper than any of the 246gr LRN offerings from the majors. Unfortunately, it has pretty much doubled in price over the last decade... :(
I found a box locally. Only cost me $51 with tax.....[emoji24]

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[Jeep]

It used to be that the aluminum-cased CCI Blazer 200gr Gold Dot load was pretty much the cheapest factory option in .44 Special ammo, too, being cheaper than any of the 246gr LRN offerings from the majors. Unfortunately, it has pretty much doubled in price over the last decade... :(

Yeah--that is the problem with the .44 Special. Great cartridge. Ridiculously expensive ammo. The only big bore revolver caliber with affordable ammo these days seems to be .45 auto for Model 25's et al.--which is a shame. I'm sure if enough people started shooting .44 Special again its price would plunge, but the current cost of the ammo creates a chicken and egg problem.

[Tokarev]

Yeah--that is the problem with the .44 Special. Great cartridge. Ridiculously expensive ammo. The only big bore revolver caliber with affordable ammo these days seems to be .45 auto for Model 25's et al.--which is a shame. I'm sure if enough people started shooting .44 Special again its price would plunge, but the current cost of the ammo creates a chicken and egg problem.
I haven't tried the Fiocchi JHP yet but it isn't terrible. I think Bud's has it for something like $36 per 50.

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[Zeke38]

The Gold Dot made for 44 Spl is recommended by Speer not to be driven at velocities over 900fps. Took this data off their site several years ago. The Gold Dot for the 44 Mag has a heavier jacket and will withstand a heavier powder charge.

[Tokarev]

Here's some more fun with gel. These are the Blazer Gold Dots. Muzzle velocity from the 3" barrel is 825ish. Not too terribly fast.

First is bare gel. Expansion is textbook and the bullet is now almost 3/4" in diameter. Weight is 199.9 grains. Penetration was 13"

Next one down is through heavy clothing. Pentration is about 15" and expansion has been slightly hindered after passing through clothing. Retained weight 199.8gr. Not bad really for short barrel/low velocity.

Last in line is four layers of denim. The bullet failed to expand. Penetration was in excess of 16" and the bullet exited the block but was found a few feet downrange.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/302c134ff56d27ab3dc61f0b9bd0b2a9.jpg

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[Tokarev]

The Gold Dot made for 44 Spl is recommended by Speer not to be driven at velocities over 900fps. Took this data off their site several years ago. The Gold Dot for the 44 Mag has a heavier jacket and will withstand a heavier powder charge.
The excellent Gold Dot® bullet loaded
in Speer Gold Dot and CCI® Blazer® 44
Special ammo is now available as a component.

Designed from the start as a low- to medium-velocity pro-
jectile, it gives reliable expansion at velocities as low as 800 ft/sec.

A deep hollow point cavity and pre-fluted jacket and core make this bullet a top-notch performer. It requires slightly lower charge weights than the older 200 grain JHP (#4425) and thus velocities are somewhat lower. However, expansion is much better, making this
the bullet of choice for the 44 Special reloader who seeks reliable expansion.

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[Tokarev]

Ruger sent me a replacement gun. I picked it up from my dealer and shot just a few rounds through it today. Here are initial results:

5 rounds of CCI Blazer 200gr from 25 yards.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/1d9292ea204b160afcb3f3b81a9442b4.jpg

Ten rounds 220gr plated from Precision One.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170113/da047ae4e8a14c94ac0e5ead6a65cc09.jpg

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[Lex Luthier]

Okay, I'd say the first revolver was the problem there.

[md8232]

I got to hold my gun for a minute today. It will be next Thursday before it comes home based on current wait times with the Feebs.

[Tokarev]

Okay, I'd say the first revolver was the problem there.
I never measured cylinder gap on the first gun so I don't have an actual number but I'd estimate this one is at least half what the old gun was.

Measuring the throats seems to indicate three measuring .433 and two measurements of .432.

Double action on this one is lighter and a little smoother too.

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[Pentz]

Pretty good grouping of the GD considering the short sight radius. We look forward to your cast bullet groups. Do the .431 cast bullets drop through or is there a little resistance? Looks like Ruger made you whole. Sure wish this revolver was a little more svelte -

[Tokarev]

Sure wish this revolver was a little more svelte -


Me too. I could see spending a few bucks getting the barrel slab sided and having the cylinder fluted. It wouldn't shave a ton of weight off but every bit helps. As it sits from the factory the Ruger is a quarter pound heavier than the Taurus.


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[Tokarev]

I got to hold my gun for a minute today. It will be next Thursday before it comes home based on current wait times with the Feebs.
What ammo do you have to shoot through it?

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[md8232]

What ammo do you have to shoot through it?

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Just what I could scrounge from the LGS.

[md8232]

Same load at 15 yards.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161231/3ab9da3fce6f50e7e272a4541e384b7b.jpg




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It looks like your front sight fits properly. Not the case for other folks. http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=249139
I'll have to go visit mine again, as I didn't pay attention while drooling on it yesterday.

[Tokarev]

Both the original and the replacement have a gap under the front sight. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/6c6ace03fc02726113e3fb1e020aafd9.jpg

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[BehindBlueI's]

Both the original and the replacement have a gap under the front sight. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/6c6ace03fc02726113e3fb1e020aafd9.jpg

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Less friction when you tap it out to change it. It's not a bug, it's a feature!

On a side note, WTF did they put the lawyer roll mark on it? One of the big draws to the Match Champion for me is the lack of the warning imprinted on the side. It doesn't set my teeth on edge quite as much as the S&W lock, but I *really* prefer the Match Champion look. If you do decide to do the slab siding, I think that'd look pretty sharp on the 3" as well.

[Tokarev]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/1b85e8eba6ce896f4fb2f20d41f9d84f.jpg

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[Tokarev]

The Gold Dot made for 44 Spl is recommended by Speer not to be driven at velocities over 900fps. Took this data off their site several years ago. The Gold Dot for the 44 Mag has a heavier jacket and will withstand a heavier powder charge.
Oops. Just realized I didn't cut and paste the other stuff that Speer says about using bullet #4427 in the Magnum.

The 200 grain Gold Dot is also excellent for reduced recoil 44 Magnum loads, especially in four-inch revolvers, where control with full-power loads can be difficult. Expansion is impressive at 1000 ft/sec; most of the start loads shown are in this range. The top 44
Magnum loads loads shown are not at maximum pressure but are held to around 1100 ft/sec for best terminal effects and milder recoil in short-barrel revolvers. Velocties from a 7.5 inch Ruger Redhawk were 50 to 75 ft/sec faster.

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[Tokarev]

Here are a few more targets taken with the replacement revolver.

The gun really likes 180XTP with 8.5gr of Unique. It also really likes the 200gr Gold Dot with 5.9gr of Red Dot. Surprisingly it also likes the Underwood Bulldog load.

Bulldog load
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/fb4c6b8b2e098d6e95780cf4b6b103d9.jpg

5.9 Red Dot
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/6aefc3d0cef974787f110fc2b374cd2b.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Just for grins I loaded a handful of Gold Dots with 5.9gr of Red Dot and another handful with 8.5gr of Unique. As can be seen above the Red Dot load shot well. It is mild and not too flashy. I should chronograph it as it might be a good carry load.

The load with Unique had four rounds fairly close together and then one way up above the bullseye. It wasn't a keyhole but it looked somewhat egg shaped. This and the fact that the Underwood Bulldog load shot okay really do seem to indicate that the Gold Dot doesn't like speed and short barrels.

Here's the hotter load of Unique with the Gold Dot. Please note that I used this target with the Red Dot load too.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170115/884765da80f0d812cb22466e86542495.jpg

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[Tokarev]

My XTP load

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/144002cd6c8fafa4030f9df102116bdd.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Here is another 25 yard group with the Blazer Gold Dot. This new gun certainly wants to SHOOT!

Good stuff!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/dd9e3d8224d4628c85c2c0538c61eb16.jpg



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[Sherman A. House DDS]

Here is another 25 yard group with the Blazer Gold Dot. This new gun certainly wants to SHOOT!

Good stuff!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/dd9e3d8224d4628c85c2c0538c61eb16.jpg



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That'll do!


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[BehindBlueI's]

That's quite a bit better.

[Tokarev]

Here is my daily update. I shot Underwood's Bulldog load, a handload of Unique with a Hornady 180-grain XTP and another handload with surplus bulk powder and a Rimrock 185gr LHP bullet into the Clear Ballistics gel from 10ft.

The Underwood Gold Dot was fired into bare gel and heavy clothing. Last was through a soft leather jacket purchased for $10 at Goodwill.

Chronograph data shows that the Underwood Bulldog load is cruising along at 975fps which corresponds to their advertised velocity.

Here is a photo looking through the block. Sorry for the cloudiness. The block's getting pretty nasty from repeated used.

12" penetration was bare gel.
12.5" penetration was leather jacket.
13" penetration was heavy clothing.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/7a0138d1debbe3751d380caa119927b1.jpg

Here are the three recovered Dots. Laid out in order as above. Bare on top.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/83a6782ebd47160e570688445075c113.jpg

Up next is my handload of Unique with a Hornady 180 XTP. Chrono puts these at 975fps right along with what I'm getting with the Underwood.

One bullet was fired through clothing and the other was fired into bare gel. Both bullets penetrated in excess of 16in and were found a few feet downrange.

I don't know which bullet is which but bare gel and clothing look about the same. The XTP'S are in the middle here.

Lastly, pictured far left is my Rimrock LHP load. I backed the powder off a little and now am getting about 965fps with this bullet. I'm hoping the slightly lower velocities will shoot a bit better. Accuracy isn't bad at 1000+ fps but I'm hoping to tighten it up a bit. Also penetration was only about 10in at the higher velocity.

Anyway I fired two of these through clothing. Both penetrated more than 16in with only one of the bullets being recovered.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/4f95fe98e5425abd51c18c8520b3df15.jpg

Then just for reference is the Rimrock after the higher velocity. Expansion is better but penetration is a bit shallow.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170117/101b2da6864745b6f0f2f2096e9185ce.jpg


So far I'm really liking what I'm seeing with the Underwood Bulldog. I haven't seen the keyhole issues like with their hotter load. This stuff might be a good choice for self-defense ammo in the GP.


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[Bigghoss]

Shoots as good as it looks!

[Tokarev]

There is a thread on rugerforum about some guns accepting 44 Mag ammo. I just checked mine. It will not chamber 44 Mag.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170118/62b79a4e0ab9167da90b0574b85f54b7.jpg

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[Bigghoss]

I believe the guy on RF.net had handloads with a heavy crimp but folks who tried with factory ammo said it wouldn't work.

[Tokarev]

I believe the guy on RF.net had handloads with a heavy crimp but folks who tried with factory ammo said it wouldn't work.
I could see someone who got fairly aggressive with his trim to length and then a heavy roll crimp might get Mags to chamber.

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[Tokarev]

Here is a group with a 250gr (253 +/- on my digital scale) Keith-style cast hollow point from GT Bullets. These are sized .432" as available from the GT website.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/b0034084c7bb2b706c21766fc137d765.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Here's something I shot this afternoon. This is five rounds loaded with Unique and Speer's 4428 210gr Gold Dot for the 44 Magnum. I blurred out the load data because it isn't anything published. I don't think it is necessarily a hot load and is under some published data for other 210gr bullets.

Anyway, this one really bares further messing with. I've loaded up 20 of this same load and will get some chrono data and shoot into gel ASAP.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/33e18b95c51df4de0d93aa99ce86222c.jpg

As per my usual this is seated at 25 yards with a rolled up jacket for a rest.


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[Tokarev]

Here's something quite surprising.

This is the 210gr Speer Gold Dot loaded with Unique fired into gel both with and without a heavy clothing barrier. The chrono says these are running just at or slightly under 1000fps. Note that the bullet fired into bare gel shows just the tiniest amount of flattening while the clothing bullet shows no expansion whatsoever.

The bare gel bullet penetrated about 28" while the clothing bullet penetrated in excess of 32" and the bullet was found behind the blocks.

This is not the surprising thing since I wasn't expecting too much from a heavy jacketed 44 Magnum bullet at these speeds. I'm hoping that maybe something like Blue Dot can get me up into the 1100fps range to give the bullet enough oomph to actually work.

What is surprising is how well the 255gr RN LHP from GT worked. These are loaded to Skeeter spec and are running in the mid 900's. Penetration both with and without clothing is in the 14-15" range and both bullets opened nicely at these speeds. This load warrants more experimentation but certainly might be a good choice as a field/hiking load where lighter skinned four legged critters might be a threat.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170123/b8524e1d8873beb793bd26f8c4deb8f9.jpg

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[Tokarev]

Another photo. This is the 255gr RN LHP in the gel. Note penetration after heavy clothing. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/01d92cf1a7b83b7f415797a0e04f29ab.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170124/ec2498879de35d194eb2b99a38b8ab33.jpg

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[Tamara]

On a side note, WTF did they put the lawyer roll mark on it?

That's not a lwayer roll mark, it's a judge rollmark. It was part of a settlement.

[md8232]

Both the original and the replacement have a gap under the front sight. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170114/6c6ace03fc02726113e3fb1e020aafd9.jpg

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This is the replacement? I'm to send mine back next week, but what's the point if this is the result?
If only it didn't fit my hand so well and shoot so softly with the stock grips, I'd consider returning it.
Oh, the TK Custom Moon Clips for a Smif & Wesson fit perfectly. A cylinder cut is in the future.

[BehindBlueI's]

That's not a lwayer roll mark, it's a judge rollmark. It was part of a settlement.

It's not on the Match Champion. A much smaller version is on the bottom. It looks much better, IMO.

[Pentz]

If that is a dovetail would filing a tad off the bottom of the sight work?

[Lex Luthier]

If that is a dovetail would filing a tad off the bottom of the sight work?

It will make it loose- possibly too loose to stay in place.

(I make dovetail neck joints for guitars- same principle, different material.)

[Tamara]

It's not on the Match Champion. A much smaller version is on the bottom.

It has to be somewhere on the gun. (I guess on the barrel? I don't know the actual wording of the agreement, if it's even public record.) I agree that it looks better when they try to minimize it. There's a burgeoning trade in bugging it off SASS guns...

Blame some dude who dropped a three-screw Blackhawk with six beans in the wheel and done kilt hisself.

[BehindBlueI's]

It has to be somewhere on the gun. (I guess on the barrel? I don't know the actual wording of the agreement, if it's even public record.) I agree that it looks better when they try to minimize it. There's a burgeoning trade in bugging it off SASS guns...

Blame some dude who dropped a three-screw Blackhawk with six beans in the wheel and done kilt hisself.

Its on the bottom of the lug facing down, not the side, much less obtrusive. Its a very abbreviated version. I think it just says "read owners manual".

I checked. It says "read instruction manual."

[Tamara]

Its on the bottom of the lug facing down, not the side, much less obtrusive.

I've seen it. :) I was just mentioning why all Rugers have that, for those that didn't know the reason. (The 8-shot .357 Redhawk snubbie has a similar "Read Instruction Manual, Newport, NH" on the bottom of underlug in fine print.)

They seem more willing to follow the letter rather than the spirit on guns that are at all "limited production" or similar

EDITED TO ADD: I believe the "CAUTION: Capable of firing with magazine removed" found on some Smiths is a similar product of litigation.

[OlongJohnson]

EDITED TO ADD: I believe the "CAUTION: Capable of firing with magazine removed" found on some Smiths is a similar product of litigation.

When you sell otherwise identical guns both with and without a magazine disconnect, and many users are likely to be trained one way or the other on that specific model (or at least that design family) of pistol, having a label on the outside of the less-common variant seems like a reasonable step to avoid future litigation, even if you haven't been hurt by past litigation. Maybe even a reasonable step to promote the well-being and satisfaction of your customers.

That said, it's a safe bet that anything S&W has done in the past 20 years is heavily influenced by its experience with litigation. I have a PDF of that "We surrender" letter around somewhere...

[Tamara]

When you sell otherwise identical guns both with and without a magazine disconnect, and many users are likely to be trained one way or the other on that specific model (or at least that design family) of pistol, having a label on the outside of the less-common variant seems like a reasonable step to avoid future litigation, even if you haven't been hurt by past litigation. Maybe even a reasonable step to promote the well-being and satisfaction of your customers.

Indeed. However, it is my understanding that the warning in question is part of a settlement.


That said, it's a safe bet that anything S&W has done in the past 20 years is heavily influenced by its experience with litigation. I have a PDF of that "We surrender" letter around somewhere...

This one? :D

13559

They sent these little standup counter displays to us stocking dealers. (This is from the storage room of a later employer; the one I was working at at the time of The Agreement, I threw the letter in the box with all the other stocking dealer stuff we shipped back to Springfield.)
r

[Stephanie B]

Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore is showing the GP-.44 in stock at $639.99 (http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/188661/1761/ruger-gp100-44-special-double-action-revolver).

Ruger's "here's our new gun and yes, you can buy one" seems a bit friendlier than Kimber/Colt's "here's our new good, good luck finding one" strategy. (But they don't have the Redhawk .357 (http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/188660/5033/ruger-redhawk-357-magnum-revolver), so what do I know.)

[md8232]

Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore is showing the GP-.44 in stock at $639.99 (http://www.sportsmansoutdoorsuperstore.com/products2.cfm/ID/188661/1761/ruger-gp100-44-special-double-action-revolver).............

Looking at the images there, the front sight is still jacked up.
I have a return shipping label, but it seems like a 2 week turn around right now.

[Tokarev]

Posted by Denis Prisbrey on another forum. Encouraged by this news as I believe the little gun is capable of better accuracy.

Also, my sample has the gap under the front sight. This has been the least of my concerns but I'm still glad to read that it has been corrected.


Just off the phone with Ruger.
The front sight issue has been addressed & should not appear on new production going forward.

The chamber issue is being worked on.
May or may not go with SAMMI specs, but they'll work toward better consistency in picking one throat diameter & sticking with it.

I'm encouraged.
This is a neat little gun & I WANT it to succeed. :)

Also, if the GP you already bought has a problem with chamber-related accuracy, Ruger is aware of the issue & should be able to correct it if you return it for service.
Denis

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[md8232]

Returns being mentioned on other forums are a mixed bag. Some have the sight issue corrected while others come back with the same gap.
Ruger is replacing the barrel, cylinder and sight on some. They are coming back with a test target.
I'll hold off a bit more before sending mine back.

[Tokarev]

Returns being mentioned on other forums are a mixed bag. Some have the sight issue corrected while others come back with the same gap.
Ruger is replacing the barrel, cylinder and sight on some. They are coming back with a test target.
I'll hold off a bit more before sending mine back.

Front sight gap is not ideal but as long as the gun shoots straight upon return I can live with it.

Probably a good call on waiting a bit before sending your gun back. Let things settle down a bit to see how they shake out.

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[Tokarev]

Received an email from UPS this morning with tracking number. My GP100 is on the way back. I should have it Monday.

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[BehindBlueI's]

Just off the phone with Ruger.
The front sight issue has been addressed & should not appear on new production going forward.

The chamber issue is being worked on.
May or may not go with SAMMI specs, but they'll work toward better consistency in picking one throat diameter & sticking with it.


Complete horse shit that this stuff is figured out AFTER the product ships. I hope you get a check for the time you spent as a beta tester for Ruger.

[Tokarev]

Complete horse shit that this stuff is figured out AFTER the product ships. I hope you get a check for the time you spent as a beta tester for Ruger.
No biggie. Sometimes sh1t happens.

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[Tokarev]

The repaired firearm is back and it looks great.

The chamber throats appear to measure .431 with one throat creeping upwards toward .432 as best I can determine using my Starrett small hole gages. I have also tried poking various cast bullets through. A bullet sized .430 passes easily while .432 will not. I don't currently have anything sized .431.

The major gap under the front sight is gone. There's still a small gap there but it isn't unsightly like before.

The gun used to have a scratch across the top strap from ?? but the warranty tech polished this out making the gun appear new again.

Enclosed in the box is a photocopied test target with the revolver's serial number. The target says the firearm was tested from a rest at 15 yards using 200gr Federal. I assume that's the 200gr LSWC HP load.

The weather has been less than ideal but maybe today I can get a few rounds fired. I still have a few odds and ends that didn't shoot well in the gun with the original cylinder. I wonder how they'll do now.

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[OlongJohnson]

The major gap under the front sight is gone. There's still a small gap there but it isn't unsightly like before.

That's still frustrating. Novak is very clear on their page detailing sight installation (http://www.novaksights.com/Content.aspx?PAGE=%22Sights%20101%22) that all five surfaces (three dovetail and in front of and behind the cut) need to make contact for the sight to be properly supported.


The next critical part is what we refer to the “points of contact” issue. If there is any light showing through the underside of the sight there is a chance of it “opening up” the dovetail and becoming loose from the repetitive cycling of the slide. The front sights, which are more prone to becoming loose, need the five points of contact to minimize this from happening. The five points are the front underside of the blade, both angles of the dovetail, the bottom of the dovetail, and the rear underside of the blade. Having contact with all five of those points and having the roll pin installed, as an added protective measure, will keep the front sight in place under the most extreme conditions and help prevent fatiguing or opening of the dovetail cut.

The rear follows basically the same rules, but use four points of contact and a setscrew to secure it. The four points for the rear are: the front angle of the dovetail (this is a larger surface and has a larger heavier bearing area to hold it from deforming), the bottom of the dovetail, the rear of the dovetail, and the underside of the back of the sight also known as the “pocket”.

I'd not be surprised to see Cletus' Gunsmithy get it wrong, but Ruger engineers should have RTFMed.

Just to note, I'm depending on Ruger to make it right if I ever have issues with my MC, as it has gaps front and rear.

[md8232]

Ruger has mine now, I'll report back once it comes home.

[Tokarev]

Weather has taken a turn for the better so I should be able to start shooting again. Maybe next week I'll post some accuracy results.

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[md8232]

My gun is back, no thanks to Ruger who got my address wrong. Fortunately, I keep UPS busy enough that they know where I live.
First thing I notice is there is still a gap under the Front Sight. A business card will just get under it. Before it was easy.
They polished both sides of the trigger guard and that is a noticeable improvement.
New Barrel.
Polished the gun.
Smoothed the DA pull. It will occasionally register on my Lyman gauge now, before it was always over limit. A sub 4 Lb. SA, thats pretty nice.
No response to any of the questions I asked them.
Target included. It looks like the other targets that have been posted. Maybe they shot once and copied many?
I'm torn about returning it again and hoping the next batch of barrels have the sights on right. But it feels so good in hand.

[Tokarev]

New Barrel.
Polished the gun.
Smoothed the DA pull.

How's it shoot now? Mine still shows a marked preference for bullets in the 180-200 grain range. The exception being a "True Keith" cast bullet from Montana Bullet Works.



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[md8232]

How's it shoot now? Mine still shows a marked preference for bullets in the 180-200 grain range. The exception being a "True Keith" cast bullet from Montana Bullet Works.



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Haven't shot it yet. Working on my G-19's at the moment.

[entropy]

Well after about a 4 month wait, mine finally arrived at the LGS. I went in to pick up some .17hmr and the gent says... "Hey!! Guess what just came in yesterday??" Well, one trip home and one "uhhh...umm...honey????...." later it is sitting in Illinois gun purgatory until it can join all the other guns that AREN'T in gun purgatory. (Damn...another maybe 2 years of this god-awful state.)

Well anyhoo, they let me pull it out of the box while they all sat and drooled. Looks nice, no front sight gap, scratches and a pretty damn nice trigger even on its initial pulls. Stocks were a bit smaller than I figured but thats fine since I have girly hands. I better get used to saying "uhhh...umm...honey" because the only .44spl they had was more expensive than a set of .44spl/mag dies two shelves above. Got the dies.:)

I think this is going to make a great north woods gun. I'll be picking it up later this week and hope to put a few rounds thru it soon there after. Thanks for posting all the load info. Never thought Id need it this soon! Lol.

Any idea if a Python sized holster would fit the frame? I have a nice Galco OWB I bought for my 15-2 Dan Wesson. Its stamped and sized for the Python sized frame and up to 3".

[SamAdams]

LGS has a Taurus 2" 431 and a Charter Bulldog. I have been trying very hard not to need one of them. Don't need another caliber to stock/load for, don't need it. Don't.

Unfluted, 3", and adjustable sights?

Um. Yeah. I'll be in my bunk.

There are several generations of Bulldogs made under different management teams as the company went through it's ups and downs. Some of the older Bulldogs are decent enough. Just don't shoot them with stiff loads & don't shoot them a lot. (I have one of these older, better guns). Also, a lot of their older guns from certain periods suck. Their new guns suck too. ('Suck' defined as lack of reliability and quality of workmanship.) IMO, old or new, - you may get lucky and snag a serviceable Bulldog. But odds are that you won't find anything that you'd really want to stake your life on in a self defense situation.
I went through a long period when I wanted to use a revolver as my primary carry & wanted something more than a 38. Who knows why- - In the end I said 'Heck with it' and just went with Glocks.

[Rex G]

Well after about a 4 month wait, mine finally arrived at the LGS. I went in to pick up some .17hmr and the gent says... "Hey!! Guess what just came in yesterday??" Well, one trip home and one "uhhh...umm...honey????...." later it is sitting in Illinois gun purgatory until it can join all the other guns that AREN'T in gun purgatory. (Damn...another maybe 2 years of this god-awful state.)

Well anyhoo, they let me pull it out of the box while they all sat and drooled. Looks nice, no front sight gap, scratches and a pretty damn nice trigger even on its initial pulls. Stocks were a bit smaller than I figured but thats fine since I have girly hands. I better get used to saying "uhhh...umm...honey" because the only .44spl they had was more expensive than a set of .44spl/mag dies two shelves above. Got the dies.:)

I think this is going to make a great north woods gun. I'll be picking it up later this week and hope to put a few rounds thru it soon there after. Thanks for posting all the load info. Never thought Id need it this soon! Lol.

Any idea if a Python sized holster would fit the frame? I have a nice Galco OWB I bought for my 15-2 Dan Wesson. Its stamped and sized for the Python sized frame and up to 3".

A leather holster for a Python will probably fit well. Enjoy!

[Rex G]

It is troubling that Ruger is shipping guns with such glaringly visible defects. I will be holding onto my older Ruger sixguns, and if I buy new, will do it at a large local dealer, where I can inspect before buying.

[entropy]

Picked it up yesterday. Broke it down this morning, lubed the bejesus out of it, dryfiring like crazy now. It was pretty good out of the box, but we'll see what some exercise will do. Spray it down tonight, get the bits out, reassemble and ready tomorrow.

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[SamAdams]

Well, shoot. As a long time 44 Special fan, I had been very tempted to buy a used S&W 696 on several occasions. I never 'pulled the trigger' because prices were quite high, approaching $1k on the last one I saw on auction a few years ago IIRC. (I don't know if anyone paid that.) I have several 44 Special wheel-guns and use my 329PD for launching 44 Specials, so thought that was the end of that. But now this new Ruger . . and under $600 from one local dealer. Hmmmm . . . I look forward to reading more on this thread.

[entropy]

Ran out of time to shoot it this last group of days off. Life happened. Maybe next week. This is my first big bore revolver. I have a couple of .45acp's but to be honest, they've never done much for me. The trigger smoothed out very nice after an evening of dry fire and another cleaning and lube. Green tubes never were my preference. I have some extra red pipes in the spares box, maybe swap those out...

[SamAdams]

Its been a few years, but IIRC people were warned against shooting 'vigorous' loads in the 696 because of the forcing cone not having all that much meat to it. I like a ~ 255gr Keith bullet doing 1000fps, myself. A good, solid general purpose field load that will do the job in 80% of the places I go to outdoors.

I'm not a fan of the unfluted cylinder, but its not a big deal. Except in J-frames, personal preference is for at least a 4" barrel - but 3" is fine.

I think I'll wait and see what others experiences are with this new Ruger. Its not like I 'need' another wheel-gun immediately.

[entropy]

Finally got to shoot it a bit today. All loads were 240gr Acme coated using Unique and 2400. Best loads were using Unique in the 7.5gr range. I as geting about 2"-2.5" at 15yds at my home range. Not the best, but conditions werent the best either. Clocked them at an average of 885fps. So befins the journey of finding the best load. I appreaciate all the previous write ups and will pick up some of the listed to experiment. First large bore handgun (besides the .45acp). Yes...it was fun.:cool: