Umarex SA177 BB Repeater (Glock BB Gun) for training purposes

[JB326]

Last week I was wandering through my local Academy Sports and happened across a Umarex SA177 BB repeater. It is highly detailed Glock replica complete with a metal slide, barrel, and magazine. It is Co2 powered and the price tag was $59. I've been looking real hard at the SIRT trainers, but I just don't have that kind of spare change at the moment, but I could pretty easily spend $60 or I could probably even talk Santa into bringing me the BB repeater. Internet reviews say that you get about 9 magazines worth out of each Co2 cartridge, and the magazines hold 19 BB's.

I'm most likely going to pick one up very soon one way or the other and then I will also set up a "range" in my basement. I think I could very easily multiply my training several fold over my opporunities for live and dry fire. Lastly, my 5 year old is starting to show a fair amount of interest in shooting and the BB gun would be a good way to get him introduced.

So any of you guys have any experience with the Umarex? (and yes, I still plan to pick up a SIRT at a later date, this is not an either/ or deal)

Thanks for any input!

[Joseph B.]

Do you have a link, I would like to take a look at it...

Thanks,

[mnealtx]

Here's one from Pyramyd Air (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Umarex_SA177_BB_Gun_Repeater/2045#sSpec)...

[gringop]

My un-informed, never-shot-one opinion.

The sights are not gonna be like your real gun, the trigger is not gonna be like your real gun, the recoil is no way gonna be like your real gun. BBs and CO2 are gonna be way more expensive than for airsoft and you can't use it in any FOF training.

Myself, I would spend more $ up front and get a decent airsoft setup for indoor use and teaching your boy. For dry fire, use your real gun.

Gringop

[David Armstrong]

Can't comment on the Umarex specifically, but a lot of my early training in shooting invovled BB guns and airguns. Sure you don't get the same everything as your real gun, but you can certainly practice things like sight alignment, trigger control, presentations, etc. and maybe get some trigger time you wouldn't get otherwise.

[Tamara]

I purchased the Umarex BB version of the M&P on the idea that I could work on my draw and pressout and do something about the squirrel problem in the tomato patch at the same time, but the first frost killed the 'maters and scotched that plan.

Haven't played with it much yet.

[JB326]

My un-informed, never-shot-one opinion.

The sights are not gonna be like your real gun, the trigger is not gonna be like your real gun, the recoil is no way gonna be like your real gun. BBs and CO2 are gonna be way more expensive than for airsoft and you can't use it in any FOF training.

Myself, I would spend more $ up front and get a decent airsoft setup for indoor use and teaching your boy. For dry fire, use your real gun.

Gringop

This may be what I end up doing, they make the same exact setup in an airsoft configuration.

http://www.pyramydair.com/product-all-reviews/m/Tactical_Force_Combat_CO2_Blowback_pistol/2114;jsessionid=A68D312081EEED7F85E784DAB5CE7908.a pp01

I've seen them at a lot of places for closer to $80, but the above link is $59. There are a couple of reviews on youtube, but it is all kids unfortunately. Not much use other than proving that the guns shoots pretty much every time you pull the trigger.

What other Glock airsoft options are available, or is this all there is?

[enigma]

I am on my second Tactical Force Combat Glock knock off. The first lasted approximately 15,000 "rounds" until the trigger spring broke. It will still fire only the trigger must be manually reset each time. The do not sell replacement springs. If I was more mechanically inclined I'm sure I could rig a replacement without too much trouble. I purchased a 2nd one and have approximately 7,000 "rounds" through it. For the purpose I use I am very satisfied. I use it in the basement for presentations and running drills when I cannot get to the range. Obviously it does not provide realistic recoil, weighs less, and will not be the same sights as your set up. It is pretty accurate for what I use it for - drills of 7 yards or less. I do not think it works well for reload drills due to magazines being vastly different from the true item. It is a cheap training tool, but if that is what you are looking for I would recommend it. If you do purchase one you would be well served to purchase extra magazines as they are cheap and break easily.

[JB326]

I am on my second Tactical Force Combat Glock knock off. The first lasted approximately 15,000 "rounds" until the trigger spring broke. It will still fire only the trigger must be manually reset each time. The do not sell replacement springs. If I was more mechanically inclined I'm sure I could rig a replacement without too much trouble. I purchased a 2nd one and have approximately 7,000 "rounds" through it. For the purpose I use I am very satisfied. I use it in the basement for presentations and running drills when I cannot get to the range. Obviously it does not provide realistic recoil, weighs less, and will not be the same sights as your set up. It is pretty accurate for what I use it for - drills of 7 yards or less. I do not think it works well for reload drills due to magazines being vastly different from the true item. It is a cheap training tool, but if that is what you are looking for I would recommend it. If you do purchase one you would be well served to purchase extra magazines as they are cheap and break easily.


Thanks for the review. Based on your info, I think I will proceed with airsoft version. I will certainly post up the initial results once I get mine in as well.

[Super J]

I don't have an umarex but instead ordered a ksc g17 from china. It uses propane and I absolutely love it.

[Jesting Devil]

For just plinking and basic practice it would probably work fine but for more realistic airsoft practice I think this would be more than worth the extra money.

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Gas_Pistols_SMGs_Tokyo_Marui_Tokyo_Marui_G17_3rd_G eneration.htm

Grip, sights, mags, and weight are almost exactly matched and the triggers not bad. It'll be more accurate and durable too and aftermarket accessories are pretty easy to find.

heres a review with some good pictures

http://www.justpistols.co.uk/tm_g17.htm

hope it helps :)

[mnealtx]

I don't have an umarex but instead ordered a ksc g17 from china. It uses propane and I absolutely love it.

Hook up a piezo igniter at the muzzle and you can practice not flinching from muzzle flash, too! :p

Is it pretty true-to-form regarding ergonomics compared to the Glock?

[Super J]

Hook up a piezo igniter at the muzzle and you can practice not flinching from muzzle flash, too! :p

Is it pretty true-to-form regarding ergonomics compared to the Glock?

Yes the controls are the same, mag release, slide stop, plus the slide moves and locks back when empty. The trigger does not feel the same as it is much lighter (probably around 2.5 pounds). I set up a room at home with targets and I can practice drawing from my concealment holster, sight acquisition, trigger control and I get immediate feedback when I see the target fall. It is the added element of watching the target fall that sold me on why this would be an additional training tool to utilize.

Some will say dry fire is enough. Well dry fire is great, however airsoft has its place as well.

[ford.304]

Of course, as you spend more to get a nicer airsoft you get closer and to closer to the price of a SIRT.

The sights aren't going to be the same, but at least on mine they are legit sights. Biggest thing I noticed about the trigger on my Umarex M&P copy is that it really teaches you not to stage it - the BB can actually fall out the end if you hold it staged and shake it the wrong way, and it really kills accuracy.

Personally I think it's great for practicing first shot from the holster, and transitions. I do think an airsoft would have been a better buy, if I didn't spend too much more on it. You still need more of a backstop and setup for the BB's, and you can't do FoF.

I've found it's really good for working on close range accuracy and speed work, especially if getting out to a range that allows drills from the holster is difficult. All of the practice I've been able to get on that has been with my BB gun, and while I'm not going to get a FAST coin any time soon, it's made a big difference to me.

[TAZ]

Thanks for the review. Based on your info, I think I will proceed with airsoft version. I will certainly post up the initial results once I get mine in as well.

Please do post up a review/update if and when you get your unit. Especially if the gun fits your holsters for training.

On a different note; I though Glock put the kibosh on realistic replicas. Anyone know what gives? I'd like a good GBB replica for garage training.

[Super J]

Please do post up a review/update if and when you get your unit. Especially if the gun fits your holsters for training.

On a different note; I though Glock put the kibosh on realistic replicas. Anyone know what gives? I'd like a good GBB replica for garage training.

That's the word that Glock sued the airsoft manufacturers for copying the design. I ordered my KSC g17 and g19 from China. Took two or three days to reach and then sat at customs waiting to be cleared for about 10 days. The pistols came with orange paint on the tip of the barrel and a gooey material that covered the Glock markings (peeled right off on under a second).

By the way, the sights look identical to stock Glock sights.

[orionz06]

http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/airsoft/Gas_Pistols_SMGs_Socom_Gear_Socom_Gear_Timberwolf_ Licensed_by_Lone_Wolf.htm

Is among a few I looked at and are in stock. Should not have issues getting them through customs. I know now and again they will block Glocks.

[Odin Bravo One]

I bought my SO an M&P last year. That followed by an AirSoft for her son recommended to me by some serious AirSoft dorks. Then along came an M&P BBgun.

I agree mostly with what has been said in regards to training with AS and BBs. It's not the same, but there is certainly value to it. Especially given that ammo costs continue to rise, and I understand that not everyone has access to as many free bullets as he can carry out.

Honestly, the top of the line green gas AirSoft gun, while it may function next to the same as the real gun, it is still lacking in many critical areas. The $59 CO2 BB gun, while the slide does not cycle, and the safety is in the wrong place, performs and handles much more like the real gun it mimics.

It is no secret that I will easily and enthusiastically drop 20 times my body weight on a rifle or pistol, and the accompanying accessories so cost is not a factor when I make these decisions, though I do look at "Bang for the Buck". After all, that is kind of the point........increase training time while trying to decrease the amount being deducted from my bank account. Given the readily available CO2 cartridges, and BB's without having to mail or internet order, initial investment in gun, etc., my vote is for the BB Gun.

I built a BB Trap using an old wardrobe moving box reinforced with cardboard, and the impact side cut out so BB's pass easily through the paper target in the front, but are caught by the cardboard in the back. This allows for as much indoor practice as there is time, targets, gas, and BB's. The size of the trap allows me to use full sized targets like TLG's pistol-training.com target, or others of similar size. The BB Gun fits easily into all the holsters we have for the M&P line. The AirSoft Sig only fits my drop down Safariland holsters. It will go into the leather holsters, but the fit is not great, and dimensions are different enough that I don't want it stretching the leather where it shouldn't so the AirSoft gun gets a backseat for in house training.

Of course, these are but one example of each type of training gun, and various makers build their stuff to their own dimensions and standards. Certainly arguments can be made for SIRT, AirSoft, BB, etc. Which is better? Probably personal preference based on perceived needs and desired end state.

[orionz06]

FWIW I have a few places locally where I can get the good gas and good BB's so mail order is moot for me, but I agree that local availability should be a consideration.

[JB326]

I forgot about this thread! I ended up getting an Academy gift card for Christmas which led to me getting a slightly different airsoft gun. I got the Crosman "USMC" CO2 gun. It is basically a S&W Sigma lower and a Glockish slide. The grip and basic feel pretty much mimics what my Glocks feel like when I get through grinding on them so it is a good fit. It also has a "full size" magazine, so realistic reloading can be practiced. The sights are machined into the slide and are functional.

I've 5-6 Co2 cartridges through it so far and it has done pretty well. The mags hold 19 BB's and one cartridge is good for about 3 magazines worth.