Springfield Pro or Other production/custom 1911

[jwperry]

I'm in the market for a production/custom, dedicated light bearing 45ACP launcher.

I've read all I can about the FBI trials and have fallen in love with the concept of the Pro. I had two slip through the cracks this weekend on gunbroker, at the price I was willing to pay (<$3100). There are a few more out there, but a little more than what I wanted to spend.

But.

At this price point, <$3100, we enter the realm of other production/custom 1911s like the Nighthawk GRP, Wilson Combat CQB & Ed Brown Special Forces LR. Am I missing out on what could potentially be a "better" gun?

For some background, I'm just a guy no LE/.mil. I currently own a Nighthawk 10-8 Performance. I'd like something to compliment my NH as I've been using my 1911 more and more lately; the wife is back on her "all guns must have a manual safety" kick too. I'm looking at some 9mm 1911s too, but that's a different thread...


Any thoughts on the Pro versus the GRP/CQB/SF-LR?

[Jay Cunningham]

Have you considered the Colt Combat Unit guns?

[SLG]

My Pros are about as nice as anything out there, but in the over $3000 range, I would go with Wilson Combat. Just my preference.

[jwperry]

Have you considered the Colt Combat Unit guns?

In 9mm, they're on the top of my list (also looking at the Springfield Combat Loaded & Dan Wesson Specialist for 9mm).

I follow you on IG and saw you picked up a pair of 9mm CCU; any thoughts on them?

[Jay Cunningham]

In 9mm, they're on the top of my list (also looking at the Springfield Combat Loaded for 9mm).

I follow you on IG and saw you picked up a pair of 9mm CCU; any thoughts on them?

So far so good, but I only have 450 rounds into one of them which isn't a lot of data.

The CCU also comes in .45 of course.

Look I'm not a "1911 guy" nor am I a "Colt fanboi" but the CCU guns seemed to fit your description yet they were oddly absent.

[jwperry]

I had issues with the 80 series firing system (granted it was in a Sig TACOPs) that has me hesitant to pick up a gun that I might have to tinker with to work right.

The CCU has a lot of what I'd want, other than the 80 series FPB; as I seem to wear through the spray-n-bake finishes quickly so the Ionbond is ideal as well as the front strap checkering and match barrel.

[jwperry]

My Pros are about as nice as anything out there, but in the over $3000 range, I would go with Wilson Combat. Just my preference.

That endorsement holds a lot of weight.

The WC options were actually last on my list because of their finish options, I've had bad luck with any of the ----kote finishes wearing thin and then rusting and I didn't really want a stainless gun.

I'll have to re-evaluate now.

[Jay Cunningham]

I had issues with the 80 series firing system (granted it was in a Sig TACOPs) that has me hesitant to pick up a gun that I might have to tinker with to work right.

The CCU has a lot of what I'd want, other than the 80 series FPB; as I seem to wear through the spray-n-bake finishes quickly so the Ionbond is ideal as well as the front strap checkering and match barrel.

Dude.

You're comparing a Sig 1911 to a Colt 1911.

[emoji39]

Also: what were your "issues" with the series 80 system?

[Jay Cunningham]

It always goes back to the age-old question:

What is the purpose of the gun and how much are you willing to spend?

[JSGlock34]

I had issues with the 80 series firing system (granted it was in a Sig TACOPs) that has me hesitant to pick up a gun that I might have to tinker with to work right.

The CCU has a lot of what I'd want, other than the 80 series FPB; as I seem to wear through the spray-n-bake finishes quickly so the Ionbond is ideal as well as the front strap checkering and match barrel.

Another happy Wilson Combat owner (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22583-First-1-000-rounds-with-the-Wilson-Combat-Protector-Elite-1911-45) here, but if you're looking for Colts without the Series 80 FPB, the Series 70 'Level' guns are out there and look like a good value. The Level II (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606796684) gun looks very much like the CCU features but lacking the rail and front strap treatment. The Level III (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/608304775) is very much akin to the Combat Government models by the Custom Shop.

[Poconnor]

I have two Springfield 10-8 rail guns and they are great. I wish Hilton yam was still doing those group buys. They were fantastic deals. I also have a colt combat unit. I don't have many rounds through it but it really impressed me for the money. If I was starting over and wanted a 1911 45 acp rail gun and I wanted to spend more than the combat unit I would start looking at dan Wesson and then look at a Springfield pro or a Wilson. I carried a colt rail gun on duty and the combat unit really is the simple solution for a duty rail gun out of the box. Honestly two combat units and ammo sounds better than a Wilson. But I always go too far

[L-2]

I've got a Guncrafter Industries 5" with light-rail which was below $3K.
Today, I'd also consider a Wilson-Combat CQB with light rail.

Apparently, the Springfield-Armory Professionals with light rails are still hard-to-find and/or costly, but I wouldn't mind one of these, also.

Back when I bought & ordered mine, there were long lead times on getting these models.
Now, I see these models available for sale, new, for immediate delivery.

I'm not a fan of a Colt, especially with a Series 80 firing pin safety system. They're ok, but there are other production level guns from Springfield-Armory, Dan Wesson, even Kimber with light rails and no firing pin safety available (which is the configuration I've preferred). It's also just hard for me to trust a production-level 1911 coming right out of the box and working perfectly, but if I did that again, Springfield-Armory would probably be my first choice in the LB Operator or MC Operator models.

[jwperry]

Dude.

You're comparing a Sig 1911 to a Colt 1911.

[emoji39]

Also: what were your "issues" with the series 80 system?

I know I shouldn't hold Colt accountable for the sins of Sig, I know...

The FPB plunger was either getting stuck down and not letting the firing pin move when struck by the hammer or something in the little lever arm that moves up (sorry, not real sure of the correct terms) wasn't pressing the FPB at the correct time.

I was getting a lot of fail to fires with no dimple on the back of my primers.

What I'm looking for now is a dedicated X300U wearing 1911 that will compliment my Nighthawk and not have holster issues like my Dawson rail equipped gun has. I'd like it to have certain performance enhancements and modern touches; front strap checking, undercut trigger guard, modern finish (Ionbond or ferritic-nitrocarborized variation), match barrel and be part of a lineage with known performance.

I'm not looking to go over $3100.

[farscott]

One of the pluses for me for the Pro is the 20 lpi checkering, something WC will not do anymore. I find the more abrasive SACS checkering provides a better grasp than the 30 lpi checkering offered by WC. I also prefer the Novak sight picture to the WC sight picture. I have owned both, and I kept the Pro.

Ed Brown also builds a good 1911. Mine is not railed, but I do like my Kobra.

[Jim Watson]

I wonder if SA would sell you a Custom Carry with rail.
That model seems to be overlooked on the rush to the Professional.

[JSGlock34]

It is possible to find a deal on a new Wilson. It might be worth giving a call over to Shooter's Connection (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Complete-Guns-C683.aspx)...a few months back they were blowing out these Wilson CQB Light Rail (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-Light-Rail-Tan-P3205.aspx) models for $2299. The color wasn't my thing but the price was excellent. They still have a standard CQB (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-P1695.aspx) in stock (no rail, unfortunately) for $2665. Their price on the Vickers Elite (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-Vickers-Elite-Gray-Black-45ACP-P3882.aspx) is the best I've seen anywhere. Unfortunately it doesn't look like they have many railed models in stock right now.

[SLG]

That endorsement holds a lot of weight.

The WC options were actually last on my list because of their finish options, I've had bad luck with any of the ----kote finishes wearing thin and then rusting and I didn't really want a stainless gun.

I'll have to re-evaluate now.

I have not used my WC's very hard, and have not had any issues with the finish. As an EDC gun, it may very well not hold up as well, IDK.

[TC215]

As you've seen, the price of the Pro's have gone up recently to $3000+. I think they used to be around $2600.

I paid about $3100 for my spec'd out Wilson CQB. I thought about a Pro, but the WC won out. I think the Pro still uses a few MIM parts, if that kind of thing matters to you.

I also have an Ed Brown, which is very nice too. However, if you're really wanting a Pro, I would guess the the price will only continue to go up.

If you're worried about finish, I would recommend a Dan Wesson Valor in the black duty finish. It's not a coated finish.

[CDFIII]

I own both a Wilson CQB and a SACS PRO. I find that they are both quality built weapons. I honestly prefer my SACS Pro over my Wilson a bit. I think it has a lot to do with just the way the actual gun feels in hand. My Pro also has a few features that I prefer over the Wilson as well. None are any that would turn me off either if I were purchasing one today.
To list a few.. I prefer the pinned front sight on the Pro, I prefer a pinned ejector( although quite a few don't) and I prefer the 20lpi front strap vs. Wilsons 30lpi. Like I said none of my preferences would have stopped me from buying my Wilson. Just my thoughts on the two that I own.

[EVP]

If your not in a hurry I would go Colt combat unit and send it off to a good smith to go through it and do the additions your want or go Wilson for a more "off then shelf" gun

[SLG]

Another option, if the WC finish is an issue, is to either get the cheapest finish they offer, then refinish it how you want, or get whatever finish you want from WC, and use it until it needs refinishing. Then get whatever you like.

[JSGlock34]

I much prefer the 30 LPI on the Wilson to the 20 LPI on the Pro. On the other hand, I find the Pro's checkering less objectionable than the machine checkering on the TRP, which was too aggressive for me. I also prefer the Wilson sight picture over the Pro's Novaks, which I find quite narrow (but great for long range accuracy work). My Brigadier Tactical has a similar sight picture to my Wilson 1911, and I've become accustomed to it. Last, I'm not a fan of the ambi-safety on the Pro, though I certainly understand why it is a desirable feature on an issue firearm. But I guess this is the reason why there is a thriving Custom 1911 business!

One thing I do like about Wilson Combat is that their pistols are designed to work around their magazines. I think this contributes to the Wilson reputation for reliability.

[Trukinjp13]

If I had the cheddar I would be all in on a wilson combat. Love them pistols.

[HCM]

Another happy Wilson Combat owner (https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?22583-First-1-000-rounds-with-the-Wilson-Combat-Protector-Elite-1911-45) here, but if you're looking for Colts without the Series 80 FPB, the Series 70 'Level' guns are out there and look like a good value. The Level II (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606796684) gun looks very much like the CCU features but lacking the rail and front strap treatment. The Level III (http://www.gunbroker.com/item/608304775) is very much akin to the Combat Government models by the Custom Shop.

The Level models are nice guns but don't have a light rail.

The Colt CCU is very nice but not SA Pro / Wilson nice.

I have a SA Combat Operator. Mine required a trap back to SA as did JHC's and Volgrad's.

Another option would be the Guncrafters American or Number 2. Available in melonite. Like Nighthawk, the Guncrafters industries. people are former Wilson Employees and produce a comparable product. I have a 9mm No Name and have been extremely pleased with it.

[JSGlock34]

Another option, if the WC finish is an issue, is to either get the cheapest finish they offer, then refinish it how you want, or get whatever finish you want from WC, and use it until it needs refinishing. Then get whatever you like.

That was exactly the thought I had in mind when I linked that CQB Light Rail (http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/Wilson-Combat-CQB-45-ACP-Light-Rail-Tan-P3205.aspx) in Tan. Not a big fan of that look (perhaps inspired by the M45A1), but at the price you could beat on it until you couldn't stand the finish anymore, get it refinished however you like, and still come out ahead (well, as ahead as you can when you're into custom 1911 prices...).

[Cory]

For whatever it's worth, my Dan Wesson Valor has been great and never choked. It doesnt have much of a round count at the moment, somewhere near 1000 rounds without a hiccup.

For me, the price point of DW makes it perfect. To me it hits the peak of the cost/quality curve. Extra cash can go to ammo and magazines. Add in the quality level of components and the level of customer service, and you're looking at a real winner. If i was looking for a railed 45 i would go with a Specialist and never think twice. If 9mm was my thing, i think i would be looking at 2011s.

Thats my semi-informed opinion with more rounds then the average buyer, less then the average PF member.

-Cory

[JSGlock34]

The Level models are nice guns but don't have a light rail.

You are quite right - I missed the 'light bearing' part in the first post.

[Duces Tecum]

I had two slip through the cracks this weekend on gunbroker, at the price I was willing to pay (<$3100). There are a few more out there, but a little more than what I wanted to spend.

Sounds like you were competing with Christmas-gift shoppers. Wait until tax time. Betcha what you want will become available at your price.

[FNFAN]

I chose the Pro after having an opportunity to shoot a friend's semi-customs and wandering around Shot Show talking to builders. It has about 2300 rounds through it without a bobble, mostly jhp and the preponderance of that being HST. It's extremely accurate with HST+P. It was a check-mark on my list of firearms 'needs.'

The slide stop, firing pin stop, mag catch, and disconnector are MIM if that bothers you and the trigger guard does not have the lift cuts found on many high end guns. These issues will be addressed and some Wilson Combat sights added just before I retire again from Glock servitude. Right now it's primary roll is periodically coming out of the range bag to make large holes and big smiles.

[jwperry]

Thanks for the input guys. There's still a lot for me to consider and it really seems that Wilson Combat CQB is held in a real high regard when compared to the Pro. I'm also surprised, pleasantly because it costs so much less, how well the Colt Combat Unit is regarded.

I am a little surprised that no one has/uses the Nighthawk. That was honestly my number 2 when compared to the Pro due to the Nitrite finish, 25LPI front strap checking, night sights & high cut trigger guard all straight from the factory. It seemed the most 'duty ready' because of those; the Wilson seemed more....refined. Now I'm rethinking my position and what I was considering a priority.

And from a personal standpoint, I feel just a little silly that all the handguns have some super, high speed low drag name and I'm a no-one office manager. :)

[Guinnessman]

My Wilson CQB is a little over two years old and has run great overall, with the exception of some mag related issues with the Wilson 47D's that came with the gun. Make sure you order ETM's or Vickers mags with your Wilson if you go that route.

My Wilson has the Ambi Tactical Safety levers, and being a lefty, I wish the right lever was a tad thicker. Order an extra fitted extractor as well.

The fit and finish on my CQB is outstanding, and the Armor Tuff finish is great. The Round Butt Magwell looks and works great! I run a front tritium with a Wilson Battle Sight. The trigger is perfect and this gun shoots better than I ever will!

With all that being said, 2 Colt CCU's is pretty damn tempting. Good luck in your search!

[Chipster]

I've had three (3) Nighthawks, including the "magical" Vickers Edition. I've also had three (3) Springfield Professionals. In my opinion the Nighthawks are not to the level of the Pro. The only reason I would pick the Nighthawk over the Pro would be if you needed the "high cut" grip. I was able to strip out several sets of grips screws and bust an ejector in the Nighthawks and they weren't very high round count guns.

On another note, this thread makes me sad as I realize I only have one 1911 still in the safe.

[MGW]

I'm a little biased towards Nighthawk but that's because I was able to meet a lot of the guys that work there on a tour. They're finish is definitely tough and they are really built well.

What's the wait list like on a Warren Springfield? I know they're not a true custom pistol but they seem like a bargain at the price. I've considered putting down the deposit for one myself.

[flyrodr]

I'd suggest starting out with which features are wanted in the 1911. And then compare the costs and wait times of getting those features from one of the semi-custom makers (Wilson, Nighthawk, Springfield, etc) vs. the cost and wait time of having a custom smith make those mods on a production 1911. Say a typical semi-custom runs in the $3K and up range, and a typical production gun is in the $1K - $1.5K range. If all you're looking at is what Jeff Cooper used to advocate - - - reliability, a trigger job and good sights, you might just find those in an out-of-the-box production gun. Or, they could be added to a production gun for considerably less than the $1K - $1.5K above. Either by a custom builder, or by most of the semi-custom makers. Again, the time factor might be an issue.

I can say I've bought production 1911s that ran flawlessly. I've bought others that had a front sight fall off before the first box of shells was finished. Conversely, I've had full customs that didn't run from the get-go (although that was a very minor issue quickly resolved), and one that was CCO-sized that produced an honest 0.5" group at 25 yards from a Ransom Rest with match.

It shouldn't be a crap shoot, and normally isn't, but sometimes . . .

I have a couple of Wilson CQBs, one in .45 and one in 9mm that, as far as I can recall, have had no failures through several thousand rounds each. Another 4-inch Wilson had a few teething issues during feeding, which was easily fixed with an extractor adjustment. From a sample size of three, I think Wilsons are very well fitted mechanically. The final surface polishing and standard spray-on finish is perhaps a bit blah for a $3K gun, although I've never seen any rusting as mine wore. Sorry, no Springfields, so can't offer direct comparison.

I'm a big 1911 fan. And everybody ought to have a couple, if for no other reason than the trigger.

[Jay Cunningham]

a dedicated X300U wearing 1911 CCU

front strap checking CCU

undercut trigger guard CCU

modern finish (Ionbond or ferritic-nitrocarborized variation) CCU probably... Colt calls it "blackened" but many maintain it's Ionbond

match barrel CCU

be part of a lineage with known performance CCU

not looking to go over $3100 CCU


Just sayin'. You could buy two and 10 WC ETMs for your stated price.

I'm not trying to sell you on this just because I bought a couple. I asked you what you wanted and you described this gun as it comes out of the box.

;)

[Jay Cunningham]

Also: Colt Enhanced Reliability Package (http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Custom-Firearms/Colt-Enhanced-Reliability-Package)

:cool:

[jwperry]

Just sayin'. You could buy two and 10 WC ETMs for your stated price.

I'm not trying to sell you on this just because I bought a couple. I asked you what you wanted and you described this gun as it comes out of the box.

;)
I bought a 10 of the Wilson/Vickers mags during Wilson's 20% off sale Black Friday deals, in both 45 ACP & 9MM, in anticipation of some 1911 purchases.

I found another Pro for <$3000. If this one slips through I'll probably go the CCU route for now.

Then I'll have to decide 9mm vs 45ACP...

[Jay Cunningham]

I bought a 10 of the Wilson/Vickers mags during Wilson's 20% off sale Black Friday deals

As did I!

[MGW]

Just sayin'. You could buy two and 10 WC ETMs for your stated price.

I'm not trying to sell you on this just because I bought a couple. I asked you what you wanted and you described this gun as it comes out of the box.

;)

Who are the go to vendors for 9mm CCU's?

[Jay Cunningham]

Who are the go to vendors for 9mm CCU's?

I got mine here:

http://tsswarehouse.com/shop/colt-govt-9mm-combat-unit-rail-gun-black-8-shot-talo-colt-01072ccu/

There may be better deals.

[MGW]

I got mine here:

http://tsswarehouse.com/shop/colt-govt-9mm-combat-unit-rail-gun-black-8-shot-talo-colt-01072ccu/

There may be better deals.

Don't have the cash yet but it's in my 2017 buy list. The Sig I'm shooting is fine but it's set up more as a range/steel challenge gun.

[jwperry]

I got mine here:

http://tsswarehouse.com/shop/colt-govt-9mm-combat-unit-rail-gun-black-8-shot-talo-colt-01072ccu/

There may be better deals.
A friend of mine opened a gun store this month. I've already asked him about these; dealer pricing is $1299, so i don't think you'll get much better than what you got.

[SkiDevil]

I bought a Nighthawk GRP rail gun about a year ago. It is my first semi-custom pistol. I looked at the Wilson CQB and then decided to go with the Nighthawk. One reason was the price, the WC was around 500-600 dollars more. I purchased the pistol from a local dealer because I wanted to see the gun before paying for it. I also wanted a Black gun and after firing both WC and NH pistols, I didn't note any major differences (There were no Black WC pistols available locally). The pistols were all very accurate and reliable.

I would say if you are happy with the Nighthawk, then buy the GRP.

Also, I recommend checking the 1911forum, because there are several dealers with competitive on-line pricing listed. I choose to pay more buying locally, because I wanted to look over any gun that I paid over 3 grand for first.

Overall, I am happy with my purchase. My NH GRP is absolutely the most accurate pistol that I have owned. The trigger is light, crisp, and it has the Novak sights that I wanted. After purchasing extra magazines, and some other accessories I am into it for almost 4K.
The only negative comment I can make is that like others, I am no fan of the shake and bake finishes. Wilson Combat uses theses finishes as well. I would have preferred a Robar type NP3 of Black-T finish, but otherwise I really like the gun.

P.S. Finding holsters to fit with the light X300 is not easy. I'm going the custom route because I wanted leather, not kydex.

I decided on this holster: http://www.c-rusty.com/pages/holsters/vertbelt.html

SIS model holster

[Cory]

Thanks for the input guys. There's still a lot for me to consider and it really seems that Wilson Combat CQB is held in a real high regard when compared to the Pro. I'm also surprised, pleasantly because it costs so much less, how well the Colt Combat Unit is regarded.

I am a little surprised that no one has/uses the Nighthawk. That was honestly my number 2 when compared to the Pro due to the Nitrite finish, 25LPI front strap checking, night sights & high cut trigger guard all straight from the factory. It seemed the most 'duty ready' because of those; the Wilson seemed more....refined. Now I'm rethinking my position and what I was considering a priority.

And from a personal standpoint, I feel just a little silly that all the handguns have some super, high speed low drag name and I'm a no-one office manager. :)

The Dan Wesson Specialist has a really good finish, 25LPI front strap, night sights, undercut trigger guard all from the factory and comea in far cheaper.

I'm just curious why it isn't on your radar. If you were looking for something more expensive, exclusive, or sexier than i get that. As gar as a quality gun that seems to meet everything you are looking for... it looks right to me. Unless you are looking at the XYZ increase in price and think for that much you would rather go with a bigger name. Although i think DW is pretty big ne to me they may not be to you.

-Cory

[CoGT3]

The Dan Wesson Specialist has a really good finish, 25LPI front strap, night sights, undercut trigger guard all from the factory and comea in far cheaper.

I'm just curious why it isn't on your radar. If you were looking for something more expensive, exclusive, or sexier than i get that. As gar as a quality gun that seems to meet everything you are looking for... it looks right to me. Unless you are looking at the XYZ increase in price and think for that much you would rather go with a bigger name. Although i think DW is pretty big ne to me they may not be to you.

-Cory

And in your price range, it leaves some room to customize the specialist to exactly what you want. Dan Wesson is doing custom orders at reasonable price points. Don't like the stock safety, fine they will install a Wilson ambi safety if that's what you want. Want different cuts, will do. I agree, a lot of bang for the buck. Check out 1911 forum Dan Wesson section, lots of examples.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jwperry]

Honestly? It's not made in America. For a 45 Auto launcher, I want American made. That's probably the most irrational

I have looked at the 9mm Specialist and I'm stuck between that and the Colt Combat Unit for a 9mm 1911 (with the Springfield Combat Loaded coming in a distant 3rd). But, I was saving my 9mm 1911 discussion for a later date or after I do some more cyber stalking of Jay Cunningham's Instagram page with his new 9mm CCUs.

[L-2]

Honestly? It's not made in America. For a 45 Auto launcher, I want American made. That's probably the most irrational

I have looked at the 9mm Specialist and I'm stuck between that and the Colt Combat Unit for a 9mm 1911 (with the Springfield Combat Loaded coming in a distant 3rd). But, I was saving my 9mm 1911 discussion for a later date or after I do some more cyber stalking of Jay Cunningham's Instagram page with his new 9mm CCUs.

I lost the context of the comment, "It's not made in America." Which gun isn't made in America? This could influence my potential future (.45 railed) buying of a similar 1911, too.

[Gio]

I much prefer the 30 LPI on the Wilson to the 20 LPI on the Pro. On the other hand, I find the Pro's checkering less objectionable than the machine checkering on the TRP, which was too aggressive for me. I also prefer the Wilson sight picture over the Pro's Novaks, which I find quite narrow (but great for long range accuracy work). My Brigadier Tactical has a similar sight picture to my Wilson 1911, and I've become accustomed to it. Last, I'm not a fan of the ambi-safety on the Pro, though I certainly understand why it is a desirable feature on an issue firearm. But I guess this is the reason why there is a thriving Custom 1911 business!

One thing I do like about Wilson Combat is that their pistols are designed to work around their magazines. I think this contributes to the Wilson reputation for reliability.

On an interesting side note, there are two part modifications that Springfield will do to a pro and still allow it to be called a pro when you order one custom: a single sided safety and an extended mag catch.

[JSGlock34]

On an interesting side note, there are two part modifications that Springfield will do to a pro and still allow it to be called a pro when you order one custom: a single sided safety and an extended mag catch.

Hey, just learned something new today! I thought that any deviation from the Professional 'recipe' was verboten and resulted in a 'Custom Carry'.

[TC215]

Honestly? It's not made in America. For a 45 Auto launcher, I want American made. That's probably the most irrational.

Are you talking about the Specialist? It's definitely made in America.

I've carried mine for SWAT duty for about 3 years now. It's been a great gun.

[jwperry]

I lost the context of the comment, "It's not made in America." Which gun isn't made in America? This could influence my potential future (.45 railed) buying of a similar 1911, too.

I was in reference to the Specialist, but the below comment made me go and do some more research.


Are you talking about the Specialist? It's definitely made in America.

I've carried mine for SWAT duty for about 3 years now. It's been a great gun.

Which I now know is correct; they're made in New York. I has going off bad information.

[theJanitor]

If you WANT a PRO, get the PRO.

Even with a beautiful CQB in your holster, you will still want a PRO. I'm the biggest Colt fanboy you'll find. and I recommend Wilson to all who will listen, but want is want. No getting around that.

DO NOT GET A LEVEL I/II/III Colt. My gunsmith just took in a customer's Level II gun and said it was a huge pile of crap. the sear engagement was wrong, and there was a huge gap between the magwell and frame. Looking at some others, it looks to be consistent across the line. Also, I'd shy away from the SCG rail gun, as I don't know exactly what the CS smiths address when building them. You'd be surprised how little work they put into the standard Special Combat Government.

ETA: I REALLY want a PRO and an old schools TRS. I already own guns that I think are better, but I just want them.

[JAD]

If the rail wasn't a req, I'd be all about a new production Series 70 and a couple grand spent judiciously at MARS. But it is, so I ain't.

[Cory]

Part od the reason i wanted a Valor back when i got one was because they were made really close to where i grew up in upstate NY. But the other poster is right, get what you want. Because you will still want it later.

-Cory

[Jay Cunningham]

It is very obvious the difference between a guy shooting a 1911 and A 1911 Guy. lol

OP, you need to drop every bit of that $3100 on that Pro because you will not be able to sleep at night otherwise.

[JSGlock34]

DO NOT GET A LEVEL I/II/III Colt. My gunsmith just took in a customer's Level II gun and said it was a huge pile of crap. the sear engagement was wrong, and there was a huge gap between the magwell and frame. Looking at some others, it looks to be consistent across the line. Also, I'd shy away from the SCG rail gun, as I don't know exactly what the CS smiths address when building them. You'd be surprised how little work they put into the standard Special Combat Government.

That's really disappointing to hear about the Level 1/2/3 guns. They looked like a good value, and S70 for those who wanted that setup.

I wasn't aware there was a SCG rail gun - though I've seen some M45A1s with some Custom Shop work and alternate color schemes (gray).

[theJanitor]

https://www.gunsamerica.com/UserImages/21762/934125687/wm_8577612.jpg

and here's a description of the standard SCG from a former Colt Custom Shop smith:

The 2 biggest features of the gun are the gunsmith fit version of Colt's drop in NM barrel and the trigger work that is done to the pistol. The barrel is a true national barrel and they are capable of some great groups. Other things that are done to the pistol that is worth mentioning is that the grip safety is blended to the frame by the polishers when they are doing the national match grade polish to the frames and slides and that the mag funnels are blended slightly. Not a full blend like a custom smith would do but the edges are broken so the mag won't hang up.

The bushing is the same bushing used on the assembly line and is a pretty darn good part. The bushings are a little looser than I like but the groups the guns shoot speak for themselves. The guns need to shoot an inch group or smaller before they can leave the shop. With the occasional flier allowed for human error. There's no written guarantee like a Baer, it's just the level of quality the custom shop is looking for.

I hope that answers some questions. I had the privilege of being responsible for 40-50 of them a month as a CCS employee for a couple years. They are a great gun for the dough. They do no frame to slide fitting but again, the test targets speak for themselves. How loose they are and how great they shoot make me question everything I had learned about what makes a super accurate gun

If the SCG Rail gun is the standard rail gun plus the Custom Shop Tactical Package, then it may be worth the money.

[jwperry]

I have a bid on a Pro right now. If I lose this one, I'm going to take a step back and digest a lot of the information discussed here.

Thanks to all who have chimed in, it is nice to not get super brand focused responses or pick the cheapest/most expensive option because;reasons.

The only thing that is certain is that I've already put in an order with JRC for a Watson Special in burgundy & alligator for a railed 1911. :)

[theJanitor]

Also for reference: I was bidding on a FBI gun (with the FBI serial number prefix) earlier this year. I wanted that gun in the worst way, but when the bidding hit $4k, I had to slap myself and walk away. When it was all said and done, I think it went for about $4800, inclusive of the auction house fees

[theJanitor]

That's really disappointing to hear about the Level 1/2/3 guns. They looked like a good value, and S70 for those who wanted that setup.


The older "Level" guns from the late 90's were better, IMO. They were Series 80 and good on the quality/value. I don't know how this latest set of guns came about.

[Mr. Goodtimes]

I've got quite the boner lately for a CCU in .45 and have the custom shop add a ambi safety (Satan handed). That being said, I feel like debating between a Colt and a Wilson is about like debating between a Ford GT 500 and a Porsche GT3RS.


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[EVP]

If the rail wasn't a req, I'd be all about a new production Series 70 and a couple grand spent judiciously at MARS. But it is, so I ain't.

Agree! This is the option I just did and is personally the route I will go down again if I do a 9mm.

[JSGlock34]

The older "Level" guns from the late 90's were better, IMO. They were Series 80 and good on the quality/value. I don't know how this latest set of guns came about.

I've noticed that while recent Colt productions, particularly the CCU series, have developed a following here, the SCG never has. I didn't even know there was a SCG Rail (it doesn't appear on the Colt website), having thought the M45A1 was their answer to this particular set of features. It seemed like the recent Level I/II guns had appeared as the XSE line was discontinued. I wondered if there was any connection there?

Honestly, figuring out the differences between the Level 3 and the SCG, or the gray M45A1 and the SCG Rail Gun you posted, is maddening. Many of these Colt Custom Shop products seem to just appear randomly at various distributors (along with a steady stream of TALO runs), leaving it to the Colt fanatics at 1911forum to parse out. Colt could really use some help with their website...

[Robinson]

I wasn't aware there was a SCG rail gun - though I've seen some M45A1s with some Custom Shop work and alternate color schemes (gray).

Just in case there is confusion about it, the Special Combat Rail Gun is not and never was a catalog item. The Colt Custom Shop made a run of 100+ of the pistols and they sold fast at high prices. I think there may also have been a small batch of Commanders in similar configuration. The Combat Unit Rail Gun is a catalog item and is a nice pistol available in both .45ACP and 9mm but does not have exactly the same features as the Special Combat Rail Guns.

[orionz06]

I've noticed that while recent Colt productions, particularly the CCU series, have developed a following here, the SCG never has. I didn't even know there was a SCG Rail (it doesn't appear on the Colt website), having thought the M45A1 was their answer to this particular set of features. It seemed like the recent Level I/II guns had appeared as the XSE line was discontinued. I wondered if there was any connection there?

Honestly, figuring out the differences between the Level 3 and the SCG, or the gray M45A1 and the SCG Rail Gun you posted, is maddening. Many of these Colt Custom Shop products seem to just appear randomly at various distributors (along with a steady stream of TALO runs), leaving it to the Colt fanatics at 1911forum to parse out. Colt could really use some help with their website...

It's also worse as the same part number gun, at least in 2015-2016, could have either a standard rail or the larger picatinny rail that doesn't work with almost all 1911 holsters.

[Jay Cunningham]

Which SF DG switch is appropriate for the heavier railed Colt guns like the CCU? (apologize for minor hijack)

[Tango]

I see a gun like this and shake my head that I'm stuck carrying a G17 for a living.12694. Make that a production gun in 9MM, 40 S&W and 45ACP. Advertise it, price it aggressively and watch it print money.

How does this compare to a CCU or CRG?

[jwperry]

I don't know, but when I started looking into that one I found this thread:
https://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=508944
and it really makes me want the full sized & the commander.

[theJanitor]

The SC rail gun, looks like it has the Colt Custom Shop Tactical Package applied to it. Last I checked with Colt, that package was just a hair under a grand. a real bargain for the amount of work done (reliability work, trigger, checkering, beavertail, safeties, sights, etc). If you can stand the wait, just tell the shop to build it on any standard pistol they offer (they can pull it from inventory, you don't have to send one in). You could come out at just under $2000 for a quality custom pistol.