What's the current thinking on Walther pistols?

[part-time shooter]

It's very easy to find the current opinion on Glock, Sig, S&W, and the multitude of 1911 clones but I rarely see any mention of Walther. I think it's well known S&W imports them but it's a rare occasion that I run across an opinion of one or see one reccommended.

The PPQ is the reason I'm curious, it seems to be getting some attention on various forums but I've not seen it discussed here.

Does anyone have hands on experience with one?

What's the current opinion of Walther quality? Does the "Made in Germany" really make a difference? It certainly seems to for Sigs.

The trigger sounds excellent but I can't find one to see for myself as does the G19 size.

I'm curious to hear the current thoughts from people using or seeing them used in various classes.

Thanks!

[HeadHunter]

I shot a friend's PPS a little. It's a nice CC pistol.

[JodyH]

I ran a 9mm P99 from 2000 to around 2003, excellent pistol.
I cannot remember a single malfunction or issue in 20k+ rounds and multiple (at least 5, 2 day 1500+ round) training classes.
I would have zero reservations about pulling mine out of the safe and carrying it again.

[t1tan]

I'm very interested in the PPQ, the biggest thing holding me back from purchasing one is the lack of sight options, of which the same goes for the PPS. Between the two I've only handled the PPS and I enjoyed the feel and the trigger was decent as well, about a Glock 19 size grip the 7rnd magazine, just much thinner and having more subtle finger grooves.

PPQ range reports seem to be positive for the most part, PPS seemed to be hit or miss at first but more recently I've seem primarily positive as well.

[F-Trooper05]

I fingered one at VA Arms a few days ago. The trigger was sick. I have little reason to doubt that it's a reliable gun given Walther's reputation, but it still kind of irks me to hear people (mostly on M4C) recommending it as a go-to-go CCW gun when it's only been on the market for like a day and a half.

[JodyH]

Considering its just an evolution of the P99 I think its safe to recommend it as a solid pistol. The Walther P99 has a stellar reputation especially in 9mm. The S&W version was not well executed but I think S&W did their usual cost cutting and screwed it up.
The PPQ evolved from the P99 like the P30 evolved from the P2000.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[guymontag]

Second Hand Information
I've researched Walther's reputation through many reviews and various forums in the past year; if I condensed all of the information in an absolute I would state they're well regarded though not widely used. An existing thread on this forum discusses Walther, and comments by JodyH and GermanSynergy induced my search for a Walther.

First Hand Information
I acquired a pristine 1998 Walther P99 in September. 995 rounds, two matches, and numerous dry fire sessions later, I've designated it as my training pistol. Quality? Excellent. It has what the French call a certain... I don't know what.

I'll leave it at that, especially since you're interested in the PPQ. I held one recently, that's the extent of my experience, but I dry fired it and examined it for a few minutes. I found the grip extremely comfortable, the palm swells are a welcome addition to the design. I prefer the magazine release and slide release of the older generations, but that is also a personal observation. I found the trigger smooth. If I possessed the discretionary funds, I'd consider it.

[JodyH]

The P99 was the fastest shooting gun I've ever shot.
7 yard IDPA -0 hits with sub .15 splits were the norm.
The trigger reset distance was amazingly short and positive.
There was no possible way to short stroke the trigger.
The only potential weakness (even though I never had a problem) is the rear sight.
The spring loaded plunger retention just did not give me the warm fuzzies.
A dovetail mounted fixed sight would be a far more robust design.

I was a Watherforum moderator for several years and recall very few "problem threads", that's rare for a single manufacturer forum.
Usually there's a disproportionate number of "my gun won't work" threads in those forums.
Like I said earlier, the S&W SW99 was a problem child, especially in .40 and don't even think about the bastard child .45 version.

[rudy99]

I picked up a PPS for a carry gun about a month or two ago. I only have about 200 rounds down range on it with 3 FTF issues, so the jury is still out on its reliability. Will be putting a few hundred more round through it to see if this was just a temporary issue. So far, I like the way the gun feels in my hand. The trigger is equal to or slightly better than my M&P9, but not as good as my G19. The lever style magazine release was easier to work than I had anticipated, although it has created a bit of a training issue for me. I have found I can move from the button to the level easily in a session, but when I go back to a button mag release, I still want to hit the lever. Once I feel better about the PPS's reliability and I feel like committing to the Walther platform, I wouldn't mind checking out a PPQ. Both guns have had a price drop recently, so they are certainly more competitively priced.

[GJM]

Thoughts on the short trigger and AIWB carry?

[YVK]

Thoughts on the short trigger and AIWB carry?

The samples of PPQ I handled had scary light and short trigger, felt like sub-5 lbs.

As I expressed this before, I think Walther screwed up with PPQ by getting away from exposed striker end a'la P99 or PPS (or HK P7, etc etc). With exposed striker end, one can at least feel it and with some guns even control it just like controlling hammer on TDA/LEM guns.
I wouldn't carry PPQ in AIWB; then again, I don't carry even Glock in AIWB.

[mizer67]

I purchased a Walther PPQ a few months ago. Since, I've fired 2K rounds without a stoppage or malfunction of any kind, cleaning it only once.

The trigger out of the box is the best polymer trigger I've handled. It's smoothed up to be even nicer after 1K or so downrange. It's very similar to a Glock trigger with respect to pre-travel and pronounced tactile and audible reset, but doesn't have the rolling break. You hit a wall at the rear of the pull after all of the safeties are disengaged and you hit the sear, and that breaks very clean at ~4-4.5 lbs. I don't think I'd be comfortable running it AIWB, but since I run from the strong side, it's a non-issue to me personally. Accuracy is point and click out to 25 yards, which as far as I've taken it so far. Keeping 45 rounds inside of a 3.89" bullseye is childs play simple at 25 yards with any ammunition I've tried from the bench. My best groups average ~1.5".

It does shoot low for me with the sights I have. The comments about a lack of sight options are spot on. I have P99 Trijicons in place of the crappy stock plastic sights and for me, the rear notch is too wide. I also haven't ventured into detail stripping it, as there's no literature available on how to do so. Field stripping is simple, however. Also, good holster options are mostly non-existant at this point, or have long lead times.

It definately has more pronounced muzzle flip than a Glock or M&P with the higher bore axis. I used some grip tape on the front and back straps and that helped, as I found the stock grip to feel slippery if my hands started sweating.

The controls take a little getting used to. I don't have an issue with the slide stop, but others seem to ride them unintentionally as they are very long. The mag release you have to get used to running with your trigger finger, which is a change for me as I normally like to use my strong side thumb.

[UpDok]

Is the PPQ a genuine Walther design or is it a modified rendition of the Caracal pistol from the United Arab Emirates? There is definitely a passing resemblance

I do not have any experience with a PPQ but I did have a 9mm PPS that did not meet my expectations for reliability (fail to feed) with the JHP ammo I ran through it so I got rid of it. It especially gagged badly on Winchester RA9T. It seemed to run fine with FMJ.

The clip-on backstrap "safety" seemed to be too weak and flimsy for hard use in the real world. If a little plastic clip breaks the pistol is out of action. It seems to need a Hogue grip sleeve to hold it together in a more robust manner. The magazine base is big and funny with a pointy little tabs to hold the backstrap together if the pistol is dropped. The magazine release is a bit goofy as well, I greatly prefer the paddle magazine release on my HK45C

I don't miss the PPS at all but I do miss the money and time I spent on it

[guymontag]

Is the PPQ a genuine Walther design or is it a modified rendition of the Caracal pistol from the United Arab Emirates? There is definitely a passing resemblance

It's absolutely a Walther design. I cannot fathom a possible reason they would imitate the Caracal pistol.

[JM Campbell]

First Edition PPQ: Threaded barrel, night sights, 15rd mag, and a 2nd mag with +2 extension

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=WAP00Q91&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26sea rchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DWALT

Kinda cool package, if you order a PPQ (not a First Edition) you can add a Raven rh holster to the order. Kinda solves the not able to carry issue while waiting for a holster.

http://www.gandrtactical.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=WAP00Q90&reference=/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi%3Fsearch%3Daction%26keywords%3D%26sea rchstart%3D0%26template%3DPDGCommTemplates/FullNav/SearchResult.html%26category%3DWALT

[ChipM]

I have carried a P99 for several years now and love it. It has given me zero problems in many thousands of rounds.

[Tamara]

What kills me about the PPQ is the fact that it still has the goofy "finger rest" trigger guard.

Really, Walther? Really? Does everyone at corporate there in Ulm run around the offices in parachute pants and leg-warmers?

[F-Trooper05]

Well I just got my brother in-law a $300 gift certificate to G&R Tactical for Xmas. He wants either an M&P or a PPQ. He's not much of a gun guy, so I'll be curious to see which one he goes with.

[Pennzoil]

My wife cracked the slide on her P22 we got in 2004 and put a nice piece of metal in the 3by5 card of the pistol-training.com target. Known issue with the slide and not my pick for a handgun but back then it's what she liked so we went with it. The good thing that came out of this is she finished off the day with my Glock 26/22cal AA conversion kit that I brought along just incase and she found she liked it better then her P22. It just took a broken slide to get her to try the Glock.

http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/9848/waltherslide.jpg

I called Walther(actually S&W) about a replacement slide for the P22 and they reminded me that all Walther Pistols are 1 year warranty only. I asked about the PPQ and they said it is also has only a one year warranty. The PPQ sounds interesting and I know the PPQ is in a whole different ballpark then the cheap P22 but I personally can't see buying a service caliber handgun from a manufacturer with only a 1 year warranty when so many other options exist with better warranties.

[Tamara]

I called Walther(actually S&W) about a replacement slide for the P22...
Did you get to keep your old slide?

The reason I ask is that it would be interesting to see a photo of the two side-by-side. I've seen several older P22's crack their slides, and I've been told that the fault had something to do with the way the FCS were machined, causing stress risers in the slide, and that newer ones have a different radius to the FCS to prevent this, but I've never really bothered looking at an older one and a newer one side-by-side.

[Pennzoil]

Yes I kept the old slide as I had to pay for the new one:(. I'll post up some side by side pictures once I get the new slide in.

[F-Trooper05]

One year??? My PS3 has a longer warranty. That's chickenshit.

[Tamara]

One year??? My PS3 has a longer warranty. That's chickenshit.

In all honesty, the various waffling over warranties is largely caused by the definition of "warranty" in all the multitudinous jurisdictions in the U.S.

No matter what their other sins, I have to hand props to Ruger for their "We have no official 'warranty', but we stand behind our products" posture.

[guymontag]

I called Walther(actually S&W) about a replacement slide for the P22 and they reminded me that all Walther Pistols are 1 year warranty only. I asked about the PPQ and they said it is also has only a one year warranty. The PPQ sounds interesting and I know the PPQ is in a whole different ballpark then the cheap P22 but I personally can't see buying a service caliber handgun from a manufacturer with only a 1 year warranty when so many other options exist with better warranties.

I believe a P22 owner received a free slide, out of warranty, a few months back on the AR15 forum. It may be the luck of the call.

Sadly, the reputation of the P22 precluded it years ago in my search for a .22 pistol.

I'll refrain from quoting "Tommy Boy" on warranties. :D

[gtmtnbiker98]

Well, unfortunately, the P22 is confused as being a real Walther when it is not. The P22 and to the best of my knowledge, the PK380 are made by the parent company, Umarex. Yes, Umarex owns Walther. The P99, P99c, PPS, and PPQ are made by Walther. The P22 is farmed out to Umarex and the PPK is contracted for manufacture by Smith & Wesson. There is also a manufacturer in Poland licensed to make the PPS and P99; however, these are not authorized for U.S. Import.

The PPQ is not new, as in 'days old.' They have been out since late 2007 and were manufactured as the P99 Q and the P99 RAD. Many have stated that the P99 RAD was fielded or has been fielded by the Polish military but this has since been refuted.

As for warranties:

P22 = 1 yr
P99 = 1 yr
PPS = 1 yr
PK380 = 1 yr
PPQ = LIFE TIME WARRANTY

[JAD]

Maybe it's in another thread, but what are the differences between the P99 and the PPQ? I recall that the P99 had a triple-fast action, which was fun to say if nothing else, and a fairly useless decocker.

[gtmtnbiker98]

Maybe it's in another thread, but what are the differences between the P99 and the PPQ? I recall that the P99 had a triple-fast action, which was fun to say if nothing else, and a fairly useless decocker.
Actually, the P99 AS has THREE firing modes, one being the Anti-Stress. You could partially cock and the decocker was designed to remove the Anti-Stress trigger setting back to DA/SA so the decocker was far from useless. The PPQ is a new and much improved version of the P99 QA. Internals are quite similar in way of overall mechanics. The main difference is the contour and texture of the grip frame and overall appearance of the slide.

[JAD]

Actually, the P99 AS has THREE firing modes, one being the Anti-Stress. You could partially cock and the decocker was designed to remove the Anti-Stress trigger setting back to DA/SA so the decocker was far from useless. The PPQ is a new and much improved version of the P99 QA. Internals are quite similar in way of overall mechanics. The main difference is the contour and texture of the grip frame and overall appearance of the slide.

I can't believe how old I am, but before Walther reinvented it that used to be called a triple fast action. The first one I'm aware of was on an FN pistol, then it showed up on the Daewoo DP51 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html), then the Walther, then Bill Laughridge reinvented it for the High Power as a conversion.

I thought the decocker was mostly useless because of its position -- high on the port side of the slide, wasn't it? -- since to me at least the decocker should be able to be applied with the strong hand only (like the safety on single-action-only pistols).

[JodyH]

I thought the decocker was mostly useless because of its position -- high on the port side of the slide, wasn't it? -- since to me at least the decocker should be able to be applied with the strong hand only (like the safety on single-action-only pistols).
I don't have particularly large hands (Large MechanixWear glove size) and can hit the P99 decocker with no problems strong hand only.
Two handed I just use my weak hand thumb.
I like the P99 design much better than the H&K "all in one" lever or the Sig lever, both of which I've had decock during recoil.
It's also a better design than the Beretta/Walther/S&W slide mounted lever which tends to activate itself when you're racking the slide.

[deejai]

Just bought a PPQ a few days ago and put 200 rounds through it. I really like it so far, good trigger, and pretty accurate. I wish the grip texture was more like the P30 though. I'll probably stipple it later because it's a bit slick when my palms get sweaty. Fun fact: you can use Magnum Research Fast Action magazines with the PPQ. I bought one and put a 100 rounds through it, no problems. Made by Mecgar and cost 30 bucks instead of 50 for the Walther branded mags.

[guymontag]

I don't have particularly large hands (Large MechanixWear glove size) and can hit the P99 decocker with no problems strong hand only.
Two handed I just use my weak hand thumb.

I possess small-medium hands, and decock in this exact manner. Simple, easy.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I can't believe how old I am, but before Walther reinvented it that used to be called a triple fast action. The first one I'm aware of was on an FN pistol, then it showed up on the Daewoo DP51 (http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/skor/daewoo-dp-51-e.html), then the Walther, then Bill Laughridge reinvented it for the High Power as a conversion.

I thought the decocker was mostly useless because of its position -- high on the port side of the slide, wasn't it? -- since to me at least the decocker should be able to be applied with the strong hand only (like the safety on single-action-only pistols).
Regarding position, yes, you are correct and worthless. Regarding function, not worthless, just ill placed.

[JAD]

I didn't mean to bag excessively on the P99, gang. I have owned exactly one decocking pistol -- a PPK -- and my hands are dwarfish, so WTHDIK? I was curious as to whether the PPQ is still Triple Fast, or whether they dropped that and just went Glock.

[guymontag]

I didn't mean to bag excessively on the P99, gang. I have owned exactly one decocking pistol -- a PPK -- and my hands are dwarfish, so WTHDIK?

I did not view it as such, no worries from me.

I would describe the PPQ trigger function as Glock-like, yes.

[gtmtnbiker98]

I did not view it as such, no worries from me.

I would describe the PPQ trigger function as Glock-like, yes.Glock improved.

[LittleLebowski]

Glock improved.

Yup. Really freaking nice.

[Rappahannock]

I am a big Walther fan, having had a P-38, PPK, P22, P99, PPS, and a S&W version of the P99, both compact and full size. I recently bought a PPQ and tried hard to warm up to it but for some reason it eluded me. I don't doubt it is a quality gun and the trigger was pretty slick.

Nevertheless, to me it did not compare to my P99, which I wish I hadn't sold. I especially missed the cocking indicator which I am sure some will say was just more parts and more openings in the pistol for dirt and dust to enter. Still, the PPQ just did not sing for me and I must have been the first person in the country to sell a used PPQ. The could easily be dismissed as a product of my age and stage except the M&P did not suit, either. I remain a firm believer in Walther products and carry my PPS almost daily, but for a full-size pistol my heart belongs to the Browning High Power.

In conclusion, if you have an interest in the Walther PPQ as an alternative to the Glock or M&P, I think you could do no better and the price point seems to be more inviting, too. I have had zero problems with the Walthers I still own: PPS, PPK, and P22. Buy Walther with confidence and I expect you will not be disappointed.

[deejai]

I didn't mean to bag excessively on the P99, gang. I have owned exactly one decocking pistol -- a PPK -- and my hands are dwarfish, so WTHDIK? I was curious as to whether the PPQ is still Triple Fast, or whether they dropped that and just went Glock.

The P99Q variant still retains the decocking feature and cocking indicator but lacks the glock style trigger safety. Instead of a decocking button, you have to pull the slide as if you were cocking to decock. So when you rack the slide: if it was cocked, it will decock, and vice versa. So far its only in Europe, who knows if Walther will bring it over.

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ppq/16180-p99q-vs-ppq.html

[Chefdog]

As I expressed this before, I think Walther screwed up with PPQ by getting away from exposed striker end a'la P99 or PPS (or HK P7, etc etc). With exposed striker end, one can at least feel it and with some guns even control it just like controlling hammer on TDA/LEM guns.
I wouldn't carry PPQ in AIWB; then again, I don't carry even Glock in AIWB.

Sorry to resurrect a really old thread, but I didn't want to muddy the PPQ thread with a P99 question.
Does the exposed striker on the P99 Allow you to retard the striker's movement like it does on the PPS (or the Gadget)? Or does it just indicate striker movement? If it functions like the PPS and Gadget then it sounds like this pistol, when combined with the AS trigger's unique features, should provide an extra layer (or 2?) of safety for AIWB carry compared to the typical SFA pistol.

I'm really curious as to how everyone feels about a striker fired TDA pistol. Does the AS trigger system make the most out of a SFA, or does it make too many compromises and leave you wanting for one or the other? Is the AS too schizophrenic?

[TCinVA]

I can't speak for all P99's, but on my first generation P99 the visible part of the striker that would protrude through the back of the slide wouldn't allow for you to block movement as you would with a hammer on a hammer-operated pistol.

My gun had Walther's original DA/SA replicating trigger system and it wasn't an impediment to use. I usually carried it "cocked" with the trigger forward...what I think Walther called their "quick action" style setup. It made for a long, light takeup before getting to the part of the trigger pull that would release the striker.

[guymontag]

Sorry to resurrect a really old thread, but I didn't want to muddy the PPQ thread with a P99 question.
Does the exposed striker on the P99 Allow you to retard the striker's movement like it does on the PPS (or the Gadget)? Or does it just indicate striker movement? If it functions like the PPS and Gadget then it sounds like this pistol, when combined with the AS trigger's unique features, should provide an extra layer (or 2?) of safety for AIWB carry compared to the typical SFA pistol.

I'm really curious as to how everyone feels about a striker fired TDA pistol. Does the AS trigger system make the most out of a SFA, or does it make too many compromises and leave you wanting for one or the other? Is the AS too schizophrenic?

Caveat: I do not carry AIWB as I do not carry, I simply own a P99. I hope a SME chimes in for you.

In AS or SA mode, the striker protrudes ~ 2mm from the top of the recessed end plate. In DA mode, the striker protrudes ~ 1.75mm from the recessed end plate. The diameter of the striker is ~ 3mm.

In AS or SA mode, the striker is fully cocked and solely moves forward, similar to the PPQ.

In DA, the striker moves rearward and forward. For me, applying inward pressure to the end plate halted trigger and striker movement, but the location of the stop varied with thumb position. Although a nice imprint resides on my thumb, this was a single instance in a controlled environment. A grain of salt.

I shoot the P99 DA/SA; I don't use the AS option but I don't mind its presence. If I want to shoot AS, I'm able. No compromises are made. I'd say the AS mode is schizophrenic only if you are ha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chefdog]

In AS or SA mode, the striker is fully cocked and solely moves forward, similar to the PPQ.

In DA, the striker moves rearward and forward. For me, applying inward pressure to the end plate halted trigger and striker movement, but the location of the stop varied with thumb position. Although a nice imprint resides on my thumb, this was a single instance in a controlled environment. A grain of salt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the info. If this is repeatable on all pistols it seems like it would provide the same reassurance that a hammer does when reholstering. Of course, you're back to that long, heavy DA pull, so why not just get a gun with a hammer?

Im not sure I understand why they chose this peculiar system, but I'm going to stop by the LGS today and check it out. Maybe my simple mind will get it when I actually handle one?

[balance]

Of course, you're back to that long, heavy DA pull, so why not just get a gun with a hammer?

Because a striker spring doesn't need to be as heavy as a mainspring to get a reliable hit on the primer. The DA pull on the P99 may be one of the lightest factory DA pulls there is on a DA/SA pistol. Walther claims the DA pull is around 12lbs, but in reality, the DA pull is around 9-10lbs, while the SA pull is around 4.5lbs.

[Chefdog]

I stopped by the LGS on the way to work and was able to handle the p99 and PPS. I left feeling slightly underwhelmed by both. They were obviously nice pistols, but I didn't get the urge to pull out the credit card. The PPS was used and only had the large blackstrap, which to me made it feel much bigger than I had anticipated. Both had pretty decent triggers in my very unsophisticated opinion, but I wanted to be amazed by the PPS. Maybe some of you who are fans of the PPS can 'splain what makes it a better alternative to the rest?

I want to shoot a PPS and give it an honest evaluation, but I don't think the P99 is for me.

[balance]

I stopped by the LGS on the way to work and was able to handle the p99 and PPS. I left feeling slightly underwhelmed by both. They were obviously nice pistols, but I didn't get the urge to pull out the credit card.

IMO, if a pistol doesn't fit, or you feel that its not for you, then pass on it, but you may want to try shooting it first if you have that opportunity.


The PPS was used and only had the large backstrap, which to me made it feel much bigger than I had anticipated.

I use the small backstrap as it fits my hand better. If all the PPS was available with was the large backstrap, I may not have bought it.


Maybe some of you who are fans of the PPS can 'splain what makes it a better alternative to the rest?

I can explain what makes it better for me, personally.

I shoot it better than the rest that I have tried. I've shot a Kahr CW9, a Ruger LC9, a Ruger LCP, and a Kimber Solo. The trigger is easier for me to get used to on the PPS than the longer DA triggers of the Kahr and Ruger pistols, and the Kimber had a nasty recoil impulse. The PPS trigger was decent and the recoil and flip were less pronounced than my P99 or PPQ. I find that I shoot it faster and more accurately than other pistols that I would consider comparable in size to it.