Tikka T3x Lite Compact vs CTR - Why the big cost gap?

[RoyGBiv]

The T3x LC (in .308) is going for around $650 on GB
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606578574 ($628 w/ Free Shipping)
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/605341098 ($650 plus shipping)

If it had a threaded barrel, or if Beretta didn't explicitly tell me that threading the barrel myself (smith) would void my warranty, I'd already own this rifle.

Unless I missed something, the only Tikka currently imported in .308 with a threaded barrel is the CTR..
Best price on GB is $920 plus shipping.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606549793

~$300/50% more for a threaded barrel, pic rail and adjustable cheek stock. http://texaschlforum.com/images/smilies/headscratch.gif

Am I wrong to be annoyed by this? Did I miss something?

For a new-to-bolt-guns plinking rifle that I'll likely never shoot past 500/600 yards, the Ruger American Predator is sub $400.
I'd prefer a threaded Tikka, just because, but the $520 difference goes a long way towards decent glass.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/606555917

Maybe I should make this a poll. http://texaschlforum.com/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[SLG]

That price difference is just about right for the added features, plus the heavier contour barrel.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but if you're a gunsmith, why worry about the warranty? I have had many of my barrels threaded, from all different makers. I'm not a gunsmith. But I still couldn't imagine caring about the warranty, especially on a bolt gun.

[HCM]

Re The Ruger - maybe a 6.5 ? This guy is doing good things with a Ruger American Predator 6.5 and a SWFA scope. I believe a 3-15x.


https://youtu.be/blcfloZYuig

[bravo7]

Sounds like you've already talked yourself into the Ruger simply because of price. Since it sounds like you are only plinking at mid range maybe that is the best option for you.

With respect to the Tika, I'm in agreement with everything SLG has posted above.

Personally, I'd take a Tika over a Ruger any day.

[RoyGBiv]

That price difference is just about right for the added features, plus the heavier contour barrel.

I don't mean to sound snarky, but if you're a gunsmith, why worry about the warranty? I have had many of my barrels threaded, from all different makers. I'm not a gunsmith. But I still couldn't imagine caring about the warranty, especially on a bolt gun.

Not a gunsmith... intended to say that I would get it done BY a gunsmith... not the hack job that I would wind up with if I did it myself.

Point taken on the bolt-gun warranty... Thanks.

[RoyGBiv]

Sounds like you've already talked yourself into the Ruger simply because of price. Since it sounds like you are only plinking at mid range maybe that is the best option for you.

With respect to the Tika, I'm in agreement with everything SLG has posted above.

Personally, I'd take a Tika over a Ruger any day.
What I've read about the Ruger has been positive, for bolt guns in that price range. I'm thinking about a low-ish cost of entry, see how much I really shoot it, and upgrade if the fun lingers. $400 (if I can get something decent in that range)... $650 still feels right.... plus a scope. Pushing a grand (plus a scope) starts to feel less like "trying it out" and more like an obligation. I've fondled both (not shot either) and prefer the Tikka... SLG broke my fixation on the warranty.

[RoyGBiv]

Re The Ruger - maybe a 6.5 ? This guy is doing good things with a Ruger American Predator 6.5 and a SWFA scope. I believe a 3-15x.

This too: 1,000 Yards from a $500 Rifle–Ruger’s American Predator (https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/1000-yards-500-rifle-rugers-american-predator/)

[SteveB]

~$300/50% more for a threaded barrel, pic rail and adjustable cheek stock.

Am I wrong to be annoyed by this? Did I miss something?


These are vastly different rifles; really depends on what you want to do with it. The CTR is a much heavier rifle than the Lite Compact. The CTR stock is not adjustable. Another CTR feature, though, is bottom metal specific to the CTR that takes drop-free steel double-column mags, 5 or 10 rounds. This system is robust and slick, but the mags are expensive. If you're looking for a light, carry-it-all-day rifle, the CTR isn't it.

[okie john]

Did I miss something?

Maybe.

I believe that the standard T3 has plastic bottom metal. I also believe that most of the T3's three-shot magazine is plastic, and that it takes two hands to get it out of the gun. The CTR has aluminum bottom metal with a more conventional mag release that you can use with one hand, plus the mag is steel and holds 10 rounds. Not sure whether those things are worth the price difference, but I do know that a lot of folks pay way more than that to upgrade other rifles to have those features.


Okie John

[RoyGBiv]

These are vastly different rifles; really depends on what you want to do with it. The CTR is a much heavier rifle than the Lite Compact. The CTR stock is not adjustable. Another CTR feature, though, is bottom metal specific to the CTR that takes drop-free steel double-column mags, 5 or 10 rounds. This system is robust and slick, but the mags are expensive. If you're looking for a light, carry-it-all-day rifle, the CTR isn't it.


Maybe.

I believe that the standard T3 has plastic bottom metal. I also believe that most of the T3's three-shot magazine is plastic, and that it takes two hands to get it out of the gun. The CTR has aluminum bottom metal with a more conventional mag release that you can use with one hand, plus the mag is steel and holds 10 rounds. Not sure whether those things are worth the price difference, but I do know that a lot of folks pay way more than that to upgrade other rifles to have those features.


Okie John
Planning on just plinking at the range.... Really enjoyed shooting a friends rifle out to about 300 yards recently... Would like to push it a bit further.
Never had tried anything over about 150 yards previously and that was quite a while ago with a .30-30 lever gun.

Although the 3-shot magazine will likely be fine, I figured there had to be more features on the CTR to bridge the price gap... Thanks! for the n00b assist folks.

[That Guy]

I also believe that most of the T3's three-shot magazine is plastic, and that it takes two hands to get it out of the gun.

Why would you need two hands to remove the magazine? Grab mag, pull towards you on the magazine catch with index finger, remove mag.

There are also factory 5 rounders for the T3, as well as larger capacity aftermarket magazines. The bigger mags are stupid expensive, though - but then again, so are factory Tikka and Sako magazines. Or for that matter, just about any bolt gun magazine out there (or at least that's how it seems to me)... :/

[SecondsCount]

....

Personally, I'd take a Tika over a Ruger any day.

Winner! I own a Tikka and had a Ruger American. The Ruger cost a lot less but it felt like a cheapened Tikka in every way.

[HCM]

Obviously the Ruger American Predator is in a completely different class /price range than a Tikka CTR.

How about CTR vs the Savage 10 BA?

The 10 BA is an attractive package but I hear mixed things about the current Savage 10s.

[SLG]

Over the years various lower priced guns have done well. Ruger certainly, savage as well. I have a Remington that was $350. It shoots as well as my custom 700's. I'm aware of a bunch of others that do as well.

Nothing compares to the consistency of the Tikkas, imo. I've seen and shot guns from every decade they have been around, and I have yet to hear of a bad performance. Why roll the dice? Tikka to me is the best way to go, and will certainly do what needs doing. The only issue is the twist rate in the 30 cals. Too slow for my chosen bullets. In 300, it won't work for me, but in 308 it will do. The 6.5 is spot on.

[Wyoming Shooter]

Why would you need two hands to remove the magazine? Grab mag, pull towards you on the magazine catch with index finger, remove mag.

There are also factory 5 rounders for the T3, as well as larger capacity aftermarket magazines. The bigger mags are stupid expensive, though - but then again, so are factory Tikka and Sako magazines. Or for that matter, just about any bolt gun magazine out there (or at least that's how it seems to me)... :/

I bought a Tikka T3X Compact Lite in .308 at Thanksgiving. An extra 5-round magazine was $49.99. Maybe MagPul will enter the market.

[OlongJohnson]

Tikka magazines should be available in the $30-35 range from time to time if you have search-fu.

Tikka's heavy-profile barrels are lapped at the factory, an additional differentiating feature versus the sporter profile barrels.

[Lost River]

Tikka magazines should be available in the $30-35 range from time to time if you have search-fu.

Tikka's heavy-profile barrels are lapped at the factory, an additional differentiating feature versus the sporter profile barrels.

Tikka and Sako barrels are the same. Aside from high end guns like AIs, I don't know of any factory that produces barrels of such high quality and accuracy as Sako/Tikka.

Plus when it comes time to re-barrel (if you ever shoot that much), the receivers on Tikkas are extremely square, unlike your typical Walmart R700.


Numerous friends have asked the typical "what should I get" type questions, when searching for a truly accurate rifle.

I used to say start with an R 700 and toss everything but the stock, have a gunsmith true it, screw a new tube on, and a new fiberglass stock. Those days are over.

Now I just tell them to buy a T3 in .308, or whatever non magnum cartridge floats their boat, add some Talley lightweight rings and get the best glass you can afford. SWFA for the budget minded, and Nightforce for guys who can swing it.

The .308 T3, Talleys and a good scope is an extremely hard setup to beat, at any price.

I consider the combo to be the "Glock 19 with night sights" of the hunting rifle world.

[Trigger]

^^^^ This.

[OlongJohnson]

The .308 T3, Talleys and a good scope is an extremely hard setup to beat, at any price.

I consider the combo to be the "Glock 19 with night sights" of the hunting rifle world.

Along the lines of "F8 and be there" for photojournalism (back when people shot non-D SLRs)...

".308 and go kill stuff" is a pretty good answer for how to pick a hunting cartridge.

[jc000]

Why is it that irons are so rare on bolt rifles these days? As much as I'd like a Sako, a Tikka makes much more sense for my current situation, but it pains me to resign myself to having to pick up an optic along with the rifle in order to shoot it.

[SecondsCount]

Why is it that irons are so rare on bolt rifles these days? As much as I'd like a Sako, a Tikka makes much more sense for my current situation, but it pains me to resign myself to having to pick up an optic along with the rifle in order to shoot it.

What is wrong with an older Winchester or Remington with iron sights?
Something along these lines
(http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/2011/01/remington-700-adl.html)
12458

I have a really nice Remington 700 ADL with iron sights in 243 that I picked up at a pawn shop for $250 a few years ago. With my reloads and a Vortex PST I can consistently hit a 12x12" steel target at 450 yards and at 100 it will print 5 shots into a little over an inch. I would think that would be more than sufficient for most hunters.

[Lost River]

Numerous friends have asked the typical "what should I get" type questions, when searching for a truly accurate rifle.

I used to say start with an R 700 and toss everything but the stock, have a gunsmith true it, screw a new tube on, and a new fiberglass stock. Those days are over.

Now I just tell them to buy a T3 in .308, or whatever non magnum cartridge floats their boat, add some Talley lightweight rings and get the best glass you can afford. SWFA for the budget minded, and Nightforce for guys who can swing it.

The .308 T3, Talleys and a good scope is an extremely hard setup to beat, at any price.

I consider the combo to be the "Glock 19 with night sights" of the hunting rifle world.

I meant to say everything but the action. I figured everybody here knew what I meant, but it irritates me when I re-read something and find things that I should have caught, or proof-read.

[Lost River]

What is wrong with an older Winchester or Remington with iron sights?
Something along these lines
(http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com/2011/01/remington-700-adl.html)
12458

I have a really nice Remington 700 ADL with iron sights in 243 that I picked up at a pawn shop for $250 a few years ago. With my reloads and a Vortex PST I can consistently hit a 12x12" steel target at 450 yards and at 100 it will print 5 shots into a little over an inch. I would think that would be more than sufficient for most hunters.

There is nothing wrong with older Winchesters and Remingtons if you are not looking for sub MOA accuracy. Yes, a number of them will shoot sub MOA, but it is like playing roulette sometimes trying to find one. It has been my experience that a great many of them will not shoot MOA, versus the various Tikkas (especially 308s and 30-06s) that it is unusual to find one that WON'T shoot tiny groups.


LOTS and LOTS of guys, especially on the net will post one single 3 shot group that they cherry picked and say that is what there gun will do "all day long" or some other such nonsense. But when you ask them to shoot 3 or 5 groups on the same piece of paper, and post an average, suddenly all you hear are excuses or crickets.

BTW, I am in no way, shape or form saying that Seconds Count is included in the guys who cherry pick groups. We have a far higher caliber of members here, than pretty much any other gun forum.

Back on topic..

Sakos and Tikkas tend to be able to produce small groups with ease and consistency. I really like old Remingtons and Winchesters, but when accuracy is key, I choose something else.

Tikka factory barrel:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Targets/089.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Targets/089.jpg.html)

Sako factory barrel:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/IV_Troop/Targets/IMG_1716_zpsawdgcnqn.jpg (http://s18.photobucket.com/user/IV_Troop/media/Targets/IMG_1716_zpsawdgcnqn.jpg.html)


As long as we are talking about Remington, I along with a bunch of others have noted a MASSIVE decline in quality control since Freedom Group/Cerebus took the helm. It was already declining prior to that but not at the speed of which the previously mentioned organizations have destroyed the reputation of what once was a premier American firearms manufacturing company. Marlin pretty much was destroyed in the same process. That is why "JM" Marlins are sought after, and rising in value, as compared to the modern "Remlins".

When I went to M24 SWS and 870 school the primary Armorer/instructor, who had been working for the organization for decades acknowledged that he had noted the significant quality decline. He stated he was retiring soon, and would speak a little more freely on breaks, when not standing in front of the whole class.

Frankly, unless I am just buying it for the action, I would not buy a new Remington. Nor would I buy one made in the last 10 years, unless I had a chance to shoot it first. The 60s through mid 90s guns seem to be mostly G2G, and odds are that you will get a pretty decent rifle, but it is always a gamble buying a used rifle unless you know and trust the previous owner well.

Frankly it is just simpler to grab a T3, configure it how you like, and go forth and kill stuff.

[OlongJohnson]

Why is it that irons are so rare on bolt rifles these days? As much as I'd like a Sako, a Tikka makes much more sense for my current situation, but it pains me to resign myself to having to pick up an optic along with the rifle in order to shoot it.

http://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3/t3-battue-lite

Unfortunately, Beretta doesn't bring them in. But the GM at Whittaker Guns has talked various companies into exclusive runs of other stuff. If you go find him on 24HourCampfire where he's an active poster, maybe you could plant a seed that grows.

[jc000]

http://www.tikka.fi/en-us/rifles/tikka-t3/t3-battue-lite

Unfortunately, Beretta doesn't bring them in. But the GM at Whittaker Guns has talked various companies into exclusive runs of other stuff. If you go find him on 24HourCampfire where he's an active poster, maybe you could plant a seed that grows.

I've been looking at that model for years. It drives me crazy that they have it on their site yet won't bring it into the states.

I guess the question still is, why is it so hard to find iron-sighted rifles? Yes, I know they're out there, but they are pretty damn rare it seems.

[SLG]

Iron sighted rifles are rare, because scopes usually make a better choice for the job.

Regardless, what matters is what you want. Tikka has the Boar Hunter, available used now, with sights already mounted. One is sitting in a shop a few hundred yards from me, asking $700 for it. Others are out there, or you can have sights installed pretty easily, and they will be better and more robust than the factory offerings.

[SecondsCount]

There is nothing wrong with older Winchesters and Remingtons if you are not looking for sub MOA accuracy. Yes, a number of them will shoot sub MOA, but it is like playing roulette sometimes trying to find one. It has been my experience that a great many of them will not shoot MOA, versus the various Tikkas (especially 308s and 30-06s) that it is unusual to find one that WON'T shoot tiny groups.
....

BTW, I am in no way, shape or form saying that Seconds Count is included in the guys who cherry pick groups. We have a far higher caliber of members here, than pretty much any other gun forum.

.....



My response was based on the fact that most people can't shoot a 1 inch group at 100 yards with an iron sighted rifle so the accuracy portion didn't weigh in as much. :D

Using my Tikka Sporter in 223, I shot the ar15.com MOA challenge which is five 5-shot groups using a bipod and a rear bag. I shot my groups at 100 yards using various handloads and the results were .638/.794/1.06/.640/.855" = .762 MOA. I am betting that if I stayed with the same load I could have shrunk that average by a tenth or so but it isn't like the rifle is capable of hanging with a benchrest rifle.

I agree that Tikka has better QC than Remington but it isn't like every Remington coming out of the factory is junk either. My recent experience with Remington has been very good. That Xmark trigger is mediocre and for heavy use I would definitely upgrade it. That is the beauty of a Remington though, tons of aftermarket support to make the rifle exactly how you want it.

If you want to shoot at 1000 yards then every tenth of an inch and foot per second counts. In reality, most people are not going to wring that kind of accuracy out of their rifle, especially for hunting purposes.