NAA .22lr

[ASH556]

I find myself currently on a pretty big .22 kick. .22's and shotguns (like the .410 sxs I just picked up) are a non-tacticool weakness of mine. Anyway, I've always thought the little North Americans had a cool factor and it's one of those "smaller than a 19 and better than a knife" knd of things. Load it up with snake shot when I go fishing, etc.

Anything to know besides buy and shoot?

[SLG]

I find myself currently on a pretty big .22 kick. .22's and shotguns (like the .410 sxs I just picked up) are a non-tacticool weakness of mine. Anyway, I've always thought the little North Americans had a cool factor and it's one of those "smaller than a 19 and better than a knife" knd of things. Load it up with snake shot when I go fishing, etc.

Anything to know besides buy and shoot?

I'll sell you my minimaster with both cylinders if you want it.

[BillSWPA]

I bought a 1 1/8 inch .22 lr in 1998. It is significantly easier to shoot reasonably well with the "boot" grip that is only slightly larger than the standard birds head grip. The slip on rubber grip would also likely work well. The intrinsic accuracy is excellent for a pocket gun, but turning the intrinsic accuracy into practical accuracy is quite a challenge. Most of the smaller ones do not have a rear sight, so elevation is trial and error.

The strong hammer spring makes these guns 100% reliable at igniting any reasonable ammo.

If you get a .22 magnum, get one with the most recent cylinder pin design. The earlier ones had issues with coming loose. If I were buying one today, the PUG would get serious consideration.

Do not carry it in a pocket without a pocket holster. The holster protects the cylinder from sideways pressure, which in turn protects the cylinder bolt. My gun is on it's third cylinder bolt.

Placing the hammer in the cylinder notch between chambers takes practice, but is a very safe way to carry all 5 chambers loaded.

Overall, these guns are made like Swiss watches and NAA customer service is top notch.

These guns were much more practical when the only pocket guns were .22 and .25 semiautos and the Seecamp, which was expensive and difficult to obtain when I bought my NAA .22. They still fill a small niche. If you need something that is absolutely as small as it can get, these guns fill that role.



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[ASH556]

I'll sell you my minimaster with both cylinders if you want it.

Thanks for the offer. Lord knows I'd love to have a gun with that SLG mojo on it, but that looks a bit larger than what I was thinking of for a pocket gun.

[BillSWPA]

A few more comments:

The oversize wood grips - but not the boot grips I mentioned above - are huge. They really allow takin advantage of the gun's accuracy, but totally defeat its purpose.

With the Black Widow and Mini Master, if I correctly recall what I read on the NAA discussion forum years ago, the fixed sight versions are more likely to shoot to point of aim than the adjustable sight versions.

Don't waste money on the LaserLyte grip laser. I received one yesterday, and am sending it back today. When I installed it on my gun, I could no longer get the cylinder in and out of the frame because the position of the emitter blocks the upper rear corner of the frame opening. That was quite a disappointment, since I think a properly executed grip laser could add much to the practical accuracy of these tiny guns.



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[SLG]

Thanks for the offer. Lord knows I'd love to have a gun with that SLG mojo on it, but that looks a bit larger than what I was thinking of for a pocket gun.

No special mojo at all. I'm not a fan of these little guns. If they were actually accurate, I'd be all over them, but for my use, they don't fit in.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I have a 1 5/8 inch 22 LR and Mag (two cylinders). The guns are what they are - very close in BUGs. Normal rounds will keyhole quite a bit. You can shoot them with some accuracy close up. For fun, I shot the old TX DPS bottom target CHL protocol with it. The max points are 250. Here's the target. I put graphic circles on the holes so you can see them. 12306 Score was 230, which is passing (haha). I drew this for something else years ago.

As far as shot shells - I shot some of the CCI at a target at 7 yards - the pellets went from head to base of the target. NAA used to recommend the shot shells to shoot someone in the face to blind them (bad strategy for several reasons).

So, are they light - sure. For one thing - the 22 mag is really LOUD! It startled me. If it isn't oppressive, I'd carry a light weight J frame with 38 SPL shot shells in a couple of chambers and then some regular rounds.

Digression - shoot to blind:

1. Will it work? What is the person has glasses?
2. If you use a firearm for a nonlethal - is that legally legit?
3. There is a very strong animus against permanently blinding someone as a non or less than lethal situation. Case in point - blinding lasers were banned by international treaty. The reason was that folks can recover from a bullet wound and, of course, depending on severity, lead a normal life - if blinded that is a serious permanent handicap.

I don't really carry the gun as a serious BUG. If I do, it is usually just a drop in the jacket pocket while I'm carrying a Glock 9.

On the other hand, there was a story in Florida of two old geezers in Florida eating in the restaurant. Guy comes in with a shotgun to hold the joint and points the shotgun at a waitress. Geezer One shoots him in the stomach with an NAA 22 Mag. Geezer Two shoots him in the stomach.


Wednesday, September 24, 1997

Story last updated at 11:10 p.m. on Tuesday, September 23, 1997
Robber gets outgunned on Westside


By Allison Thompson
Times-Union staff writer

The shotgun-wielding man who burst into a crowded Jacksonville restaurant Monday night probably wasn't expecting Oscar Moore, but Moore had been waiting for him for years.

Moore, 69, of the Normandy area, said he goes over potential crime scenarios in his head and has been planning for something like the robbery he found himself in the middle of Monday. He said he carries a gun everywhere he goes unless it's illegal.

Yesterday, he said he had only one regret about the shooting - the gun he used.

''That gun I didn't trust to try to go for a head shot,'' said Moore, who shot the would-be robber in the midsection with a .22-caliber Magnum revolver. ''If I'd had another gun with me, I'd have gone for a head shot and taken care of it from here to eternity.''

As more than 30 diners sat in Sam's St. Johns Seafood at 4453 Blanding Blvd. about 7:20 p.m., a masked man entered the eatery and ordered everyone to the floor, said co-owner Sam Bajalia. The man grabbed waitress Amy Norton from where she and another waitress were huddled on the floor and tried to get her to open the cash register.
At that point, Moore stood up and shot him. Another diner, 81-year-old Robert Guerry of Birmingham, Ala., pulled out a .22-caliber derringer and fired at the man as he ran out of the restaurant. At least one shot hit the fleeing robber.
Seventeen-year-old Dervonne Marquise Moore of the 900 block of Frost Drive East arrived at St. Vincent's Medical Center later Monday night with a gunshot wound and was charged with armed robbery. Moore, who police said isn't related to Oscar Moore, underwent surgery and was in fair and stable condition yesterday.
Though it's been about five years since the restaurant was robbed, manager Carl Rix said he wasn't surprised when gunfire erupted.

Margaret Moore said she wasn't surprised either when her husband, who she said shoots pistols competitively, pulled out his gun.
''He goes prepared most places that he goes,'' she said.

She has had premonitions for the past several months that something was going to happen, Oscar Moore said.

Margaret Moore called her husband a hero, a sentiment others at the restaurant shared.
''I'm glad they [Moore and Guerry] were here because if that girl couldn't open the register, and he didn't get no money, he might have started shooting,'' Bajalia said.

Edward Hurst, 61, was having dinner with his brother and sister-in-law when the shooting began.

''I went over and thanked the one I thought hit him,'' Hurst said.

''They practically broke my arm shaking my hand,'' Oscar Moore said.

Norton, who has worked at the restaurant for a month and doesn't know how to open the cash register, was upset when Moore and Guerry shot at the robber.

''I was just scared they were going to miss and hit me,'' she said.

Police said Moore and Guerry won't be charged. Moore has a permit to carry a gun; it is unknown if Guerry has a similar permit from Alabama. He couldn't be reached for comment yesterday.

Moore believes with ''the weakness of our judicial system,'' a person confronted with a robbery should shoot to kill if given the opportunity.

''Somewhere along the line, we the people have to start protecting ourselves.''

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

A buddy left his 22LR example at my house to keep hold of while he's on vacation. I, of course, immediately took it to the range. Little thing is hard to use, hard to get hits, easy to lose the cylinder in the snow while reloading and wind up pawing around for a minute to find the silver thing, and a whole lot of fun. Aguila Colibri are slow enough that the bullets are visible headed downrange like belligerent house flies.

I could be tempted to carry a Pug with the tritium front sight as an always-in-the-pocket gun (if I already owned it and had bought it for funsies) but any others would just be a range toy. And best left as a gun for a friend to own.

http://i.imgur.com/kjqCC3Al.jpg

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Here's an analysis on 22 Mags and a less than sanguine view of the NAA 22 magnums

http://www.activeresponsetraining.net/what-about-the-22-magnum

BTW, I have a 22S NAA that I bought just because it was cute (what a reason!). I tried the CHL test on it and only got about 120 or 150, don't remember. It's a gun for secret agents to sew into their collars :rolleyes: .

[Joe in PNG]

I always thought they were pretty cool- until I tried to actually shoot one.
Sadly, my monster hands have a hard time holding onto the little things.

[hufnagel]

... Aguila Colibri are slow enough that the bullets are visible headed downrange like belligerent house flies.

that... right there, i'm officially stealing that.

[RichY]

My wife had four different NAA revolvers at one point, but we have none now. The Black Widow was very accurate, far better than more expensive pistols we owned. At this point we have none. The hammer springs are weak, the front locking pin for the cylinder is prone to breakage, and you can eat a fine meal before any normal person can reload a cylinder! After retiring, I went into the consulting business, and during lulls would work at a very large gun store in Kentucky. I learned the NAA minis were also very prone to going out of time. The one thing they had going for them was the perfect patterns the 22's shot with CCI shotshells. Interestingly, the CCI 22 mag shotshells shot patterns that were donut shaped. We have a large population of rattlers around here, mostly western diamondback, black tailed, mohave and black, and see them quite often, but we've learned to live with them instead of killing everyone we see, as they are actually beneficial in keeping down the rodent population that carries some nasty diseases. That ended the only job left for the Black Widow. In the end the NAA's were neither fish nor foul, and ended up being traded for something more useful.

[BillSWPA]

For those of you having difficulty shooting the .22 lr minis, this is the grip I use.

https://northamericanarms.com/shop/accessories/long-rifle/gbg-l/

I do not have the gun in front of me at this moment, but if I recall correctly, the increase in height is on the order of 1/8 inch, and the increase in length is on the order of 1/4 inch. There is no appreciable difference in thickness. This small increase in size does not noticably affect concealability, but provides a significant improvement in shootability.

I have used the standard birdshead grips, the screw-on rubber birdshead grips, the wood oversize grips, and the boot grips. Although I have not tried the slip-on rubber grips and suspect that these would work quite well, the boot grips are by far my favorite grips for this gun.

[coldcase1984]

Actually wrote one of my first gun articles about NAA Minis. They were carried by just about every officer in my largish agency back in the '90s.

If you contact them they may still do custom one-offs. Based on my article they crafted me a .22/.22 WMR combo 1 5/8th with a combat smooth bevel and no front sight so it would slip easily up a nostril.

My CID unit ordered nearly 20 Goodwin Specials in .22 or .22 WMR in 2012.

Haven't carried too much lately, but may pull it out drill & tap for shotgun bead then epoxy XS Big Dot Trit bead onto it.

They company also made me a custom .32 ACP auto with the smooth bevel and an XS BDT on it. It's quite accurate out to 20 yards. Still carry it some as a tertiary weapon.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

...They company also made me a custom .32 ACP auto with the smooth bevel and an XS BDT on it...

You can't say things like this and not post a picture.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

CCI 22 mag shotshells shot patterns that were donut shaped.

Because of the rifled barrel? I saw that in a 12 gauge at a Givens' shotgun class. One guy's gun shot a large ring on the target.

I have the slip on rubber grips on my Mini - I don't understand buying the bigger NAAs. The purpose is to be discrete. As far as reloading - they are making a swing out and supposedly have new version of the top break in the works. But reloading in an emergency - forget it. Carry two of them or three or four.

If I want a bigger 22 LR - I'll use my Ruger SS Bearcat - pretty little gun. It's a plinker.

[BillSWPA]

Extra cylinders can be ordered if reloading quickly is desired.


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[Glenn E. Meyer]

"Quickly?" It's a NY reload gun. I have an extra cylinder but getting it in at speed isn't in my skill set.

[RichY]

The rifling may be a bit deeper in the 22 mag version.

My wife replaced them with a Ruger Bearcat Shopkeeper, and the new Ruger Bearcat with the adjustable sights. Certainly bigger and heavier, but also more capable and easier to shoot well. The adjustable sight Bearcat is a very well made little revolver, and it fits her tiny hands perfectly. I bought her an original Bearcat 36 years ago when we were still dating, but she no longer shoots it for sentimental reasons. Interestingly, the Bearcat's all shoot excellent patterns with the shotshells.

I saw the new model with the swing out cylinder, but it seemed fragile in appearance, and my wife was indifferent to it. By the time it hit the market, we were pretty much past our fascination with them.

[coldcase1984]

You can't say things like this and not post a picture.

Sorry for delay, holiday rush at work...forgot the high polished trigger.
12479

12480
12481
12482

[warpedcamshaft]

My experience with NAA mini revolvers has been thus:

I've seen more keyholes than a locksmith.

[Hi-Point Aficionado]

Sorry for delay, holiday rush at work...forgot the high polished trigger.
12479

12480
12481
12482

This but in 32 NAA is going straight on my wishlist.

[BillSWPA]

Although this is definitely significant thread drift, the one caliber I wish would have become more popular is .25 NAA. The reason has nothing to do with effectiveness. .32 auto is semi rimmed, creating two different possible rim interactions in the magazine, compromising reliability: .25 NAA was made with a true rimless case. Combined with the bottleneck cas design, it should have become a more reliable alternative to the .32 auto in pistols sized to use those cartridges.

For several years, my primary NPE gun and BUG was a North American Arms .380 with miniature Novak tritium sights, frontstrap and backstrap stippling done by the NAA Custom Shop, and a trigger job. At one point, it was simply the best gun available for that role, but it has been surpassed by others in recent years.



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[Hi-Point Aficionado]

Ever curious what muzzle velocity Aguila Colibri will generate out of an NAA mini?

310 FPS